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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4070
   |
Posted - 2013.11.06 20:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
What most people fail to realize that when people say "logi is OP", they don't mean that logi is simply a better fighter.
It's that they're pretty much the same as the assault (with a few swaps, like less speed but more eHP) BUT get 3-4 equipment slots.
When people stack plates and extenders in these threads to show that logis aren't that far ahead eHP wise, they fail to realize that stacking plates and extenders is not the best of suits.
Here are my logi and assault suits, each are designed to push it to the maximum, I have been tweaking my suits for ages and these are the optimal one's I found:
Note: I have CPU/PG skills maxed, I could not push this suit further.
Gallente Assault:
High:
Complex damage mod
Complex shield extender
Complex damage mod
Low:
Basic plate
Basic plate
Enhanced armor rep
Enhanced armor rep
Weapons:
GEK 38 Assault rifle
Syndicate SMG
Grenade:
M1 Locus
Equipment:
Allotek Nanohive
Armor: 449
Shield: 217
Combined: 666 (huehuehue)
Damage bonus (skills not included): 20%
Regen rate: 7.5hp/s
Movement speed: 4.81
Sprint speed: 7.08
Stamina: 157.50
Not bad right?
Now let's look at the Gallente logi:
High:
Complex damage mod
Complex damage mod
Complex shield extender
Low:
Enhanced ferroscale plate
Basic plate
Basic plate
Basic plate
Enhanced Cardiac regulator
Weapon:
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Grenade:
M1 Locus
Equipment:
Wiyrkomi Triage hives
Wiyrkomi Triage hives
A-86 active scanner
Ishukone Gauged hive
Shield: 181
Armor: 560
Combined: 741
Damage bonus (skills not included): 25% (I could fit a duvolle on my logi, which has +5% damage over a gek)
Regen rate: 5hp/s
Movement speed: 4.54 m/s
Sprint speed: 6.67m/s
Stamina: 198.19
Conclusion:
Seems pretty legit right?
The logi has more damage, more eHP and more stamina for the price of speed and a sidearm right?
Oh wait, but that would only be legit if both were combat focused suits, I.E both have one equipment.
But the logi has 4 equipment slots, making it far far more verastile and just a better deal overall.
Especially with the 6x triage hives I fit on my logi, I am ******* invincible inside one of those.
Low on health?
Plop a triage hive, return to battle faster than shields can recharge.
I also couldn't fit a scanner on my assault, making me much more blind.
How I think this should be solved:
Two problems that I see here:
1. Logis get 5hp/s on armor inherent, which allows me to give up on a armor rep and put on an extra plate, increasing the eHP gap further. HOWEVER CCP said they will change it once they have the infastracture to do it (something about the code doesn't allow them to put on a more logi orientated bonus)
2. The CPU/PG gap is just damn too high.
Could solve it by either reducing the CPU/PG on logis, forcing them to decide on either being a combat suit or a logi suit, not both, OR increasing the CPU/PG on the assault. (Should also buff the scout CPU/PG and heavy CPU/PG if this is done, just to be fair)
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
322
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 20:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thread approved. +1
+¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13.
CCP please make our decisions matter.
"AR 514. Core Locus 514. Bricktank 514."
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4075
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 20:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Thread approved. +1
You do not approve the cat, the cat approves you.
Silly human.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
261
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 20:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well put. +1
Also holy $/## you're back!
Something witty here.
How about?
#DELAY 514
... been waiting for a rail rifle longer than SoTa's been trolling.
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4075
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 20:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Well put. +1
Also holy $/## you're back!
Silly human, SoTa has been trolling since before you were born, no way that you were waiting for the Rail Rifle since then :P
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
322
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 20:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Thread approved. +1 You do not approve the cat, the cat approves you. Silly human.
In america cat approves you, in soviet Sweden approve cats you.
 
+¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13.
CCP please make our decisions matter.
"AR 514. Core Locus 514. Bricktank 514."
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4077
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 20:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Thread approved. +1 You do not approve the cat, the cat approves you. Silly human. In america cat approves you, in soviet Sweden approve cats you.
In short, cats approve you everywhere.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
323
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 20:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Thread approved. +1 You do not approve the cat, the cat approves you. Silly human. In america cat approves you, in soviet Sweden approve cats you. In short, cats approve you everywhere.
Welcome back, but why the fk did you enter EoN?
+¦-damage specialist since Sep ´13.
CCP please make our decisions matter.
"AR 514. Core Locus 514. Bricktank 514."
|
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR
The Kaos Legion
451
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 20:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:What most people fail to realize that when people say "logi is OP", they don't mean that logi is simply a better fighter.
It's that they're pretty much the same as the assault (with a few swaps, like less speed but more eHP) BUT get 3-4 equipment slots.
When people stack plates and extenders in these threads to show that logis aren't that far ahead eHP wise, they fail to realize that stacking plates and extenders is not the best of suits.
Here are my logi and assault suits, each are designed to push it to the maximum, I have been tweaking my suits for ages and these are the optimal one's I found:
Note: I have CPU/PG skills maxed, I could not push this suit further.
Gallente Assault:
High:
Complex damage mod
Complex shield extender
Complex damage mod
Low:
Basic plate
Basic plate
Enhanced armor rep
Enhanced armor rep
Weapons:
GEK 38 Assault rifle
Syndicate SMG
Grenade:
M1 Locus
Equipment:
Allotek Nanohive
Armor: 449
Shield: 217
Combined: 666 (huehuehue)
Damage bonus (skills not included): 20%
Regen rate: 7.5hp/s
Movement speed: 4.81
Sprint speed: 7.08
Stamina: 157.50
Stamina regen: 15.75
Not bad right?
Now let's look at the Gallente logi:
High:
Complex damage mod
Complex damage mod
Complex shield extender
Low:
Enhanced ferroscale plate
Basic plate
Basic plate
Basic plate
Enhanced Cardiac regulator
Weapon:
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Grenade:
M1 Locus
Equipment:
Wiyrkomi Triage hives
Wiyrkomi Triage hives
A-86 active scanner
Ishukone Gauged hive
Shield: 181
Armor: 560
Combined: 741
Damage bonus (skills not included): 25% (I could fit a duvolle on my logi, which has +5% damage over a gek)
Regen rate: 5hp/s (Inherent logi regen)
Movement speed: 4.54 m/s
Sprint speed: 6.67m/s
Stamina: 198.19
Stamina regen: 22.89
Conclusion:
Seems pretty legit right?
The logi has more damage, more eHP, more stamina and more stamina regen for the price of speed and a sidearm right?
Oh wait, but that would only be legit if both were combat focused suits, I.E both have one equipment.
But the logi has 4 equipment slots, making it far far more verastile and just a better deal overall.
Especially with the 6x triage hives I fit on my logi, I am ******* invincible inside one of those.
Low on health?
Plop a triage hive, return to battle faster than shields can recharge.
I also couldn't fit a scanner on my assault, making me much more blind.
Also, I could fit a kin cat instead of a regulator to be even faster than my assault, but I prefer the sustainability that regulators provide.
How I think this should be solved:
Two problems that I see here:
1. Logis get 5hp/s on armor inherent, which allows me to give up on a armor rep and put on an extra plate, increasing the eHP gap further. HOWEVER CCP said they will change it once they have the infastracture to do it (something about the code doesn't allow them to put on a more logi orientated bonus)
2. The CPU/PG gap is just damn too high.
Could solve it by either reducing the CPU/PG on logis, forcing them to decide on either being a combat suit or a logi suit, not both, OR increasing the CPU/PG on the assault. (Should also buff the scout CPU/PG and heavy CPU/PG if this is done, just to be fair)
lets not forget scouts! the minmatar scout mk.0 has a measly 230 cpu.
How exactly does a Biscuit gain Valor?
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Luk Manag
of Terror
TRE GAFFEL
153
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 20:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
A better solution would be to give the assault class 2 equipment slots and put the nerf hammer back in the closet. |
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Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
1854
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 20:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
We definitely need that CPU and PG at a prototype level to equip even only two pieces of prototype equipment. Fitting an Exile on mk.0 still means I struggle to get full prototype modules and equipment. My grenades are basic flux too. So I really am doubtful about that reduction.
As for the passive bonus for logistics suits, I agree that's kinda strange. It makes sense in a way: we can't repair ourselves. But I'd say more and more logibros are realising the potential of repair hives, even if it requires Nanocircuitry 4 to unlock the first decent one, so if the bonus was replaced with a fitting reduction to equipment (give Gallente armour repair efficacy instead), that would be awesome.
I believe in making the equipment slots a necessity to fill before the suit is valid, but I understand this could detract from the 'heavy sniper' mentality of being whatever you want. So I suppose the above changes are sufficient.
"..things that some people frankly don't even get the chance to do in real life, because it's poorly designed."
-Veigar
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
261
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 20:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Well put. +1
Also holy $/## you're back! Silly human, SoTa has been trolling since before you were born, no way that you were waiting for the Rail Rifle since then :P
What's the concept of time to an immortal anyway?
Good to see you haven't lost your touch.
Something witty here.
How about?
#DELAY 514
... been waiting for a rail rifle longer than SoTa's been trolling.
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4077
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 20:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Luk Manag wrote:A better solution would be to give the assault class 2 equipment slots and put the nerf hammer back in the closet.
In case you didn't notice, I gave a non nerf suggestion of just buffing the CPU/PG of all suits except the logi.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
Public Disorder.
482
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Assaults don't need a second EQ slot, Scouts should have that way more than Assaults.
Heavy = 0
Assault = 1
Scout = 2
Logi = 3/4
That should be the EQ slot formula. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4079
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote:Assaults don't need a second EQ slot, Scouts should have that way more than Assaults.
Heavy = 0
Assault = 1
Scout = 2
Logi = 3/4
That should be the EQ slot formula.
I approve of that actually.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cosgar
ParagonX
7408
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
1.7 hits, Ion Pistol, Magsec SMG, Rail Rifle, and some kind of plasma grenade comes out. Which suit is better then?
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4079
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Well put. +1
Also holy $/## you're back! Silly human, SoTa has been trolling since before you were born, no way that you were waiting for the Rail Rifle since then :P What's the concept of time to an immortal anyway? Good to see you haven't lost your touch.
Well you weren't immortal from birth were you?
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4079
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:1.7 hits, Ion Pistol, Magsec SMG, Rail Rifle, and some kind of plasma grenade comes out. Which suit is better then?
Logi?
They said nothing about an Ion Pistol, magsec SMG or a plasma grenade.
What we know for sure is the combat rifle, and rail rifle.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Mr Machine Guns
Nyain San
Proficiency V.
102
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
logo should do less damage and can't use damage mods, they should do 5 to 10 percent less damage or you have to do something to assault there is no advantage for assault over logis, people are going to say sidearms but when logis have damage mods a sidearm won't help that much. |
Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
319
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:We definitely need that CPU and PG at a prototype level to equip even only two pieces of prototype equipment. Fitting an Exile on mk.0 still means I struggle to get full prototype modules and equipment. My grenades are basic flux too. So I really am doubtful about that reduction.
As for the passive bonus for logistics suits, I agree that's kinda strange. It makes sense in a way: we can't repair ourselves. But I'd say more and more logibros are realising the potential of repair hives, even if it requires Nanocircuitry 4 to unlock the first decent one, so if the bonus was replaced with a fitting reduction to equipment (give Gallente armour repair efficacy instead), that would be awesome.
I believe in making the equipment slots a necessity to fill before the suit is valid, but I understand this could detract from the 'heavy sniper' mentality of being whatever you want. So I suppose the above changes are sufficient.
weird i fit all proto type nanohives on my logi and have pretty good defences(630EHP) on a ADV suit(std AR),I have to use some lows for CPU/PG mods but hey thts the price i pay for wanting better equpiment over offensive/defences capabilities. When you take into account that logis have high BASE CPU/PG AND the slots to tank it seem kinda excessive to need all the CPU/PG to be able to fit most if all your suit with proto lvl things at proto without mods. |
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4080
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mr Machine Guns wrote:logo should do less damage and can't use damage mods, they should do 5 to 10 percent less damage or you have to do something to assault there is no advantage for assault over logis, people are going to say sidearms but when logis have damage mods a sidearm won't help that much.
or assault have a built in damage mod
"or assault have a built in damage mod" - TTK is already too quick, don't feel like making it any faster :S
And I am warry of giving them a damage reduction, I feel like they should be able to be a combat suit if they give up their equipment.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
1221
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Long time, no meow.
+1
Cheeseburgers.
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Mr Machine Guns
Nyain San
Proficiency V.
102
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Mr Machine Guns wrote:logo should do less damage and can't use damage mods, they should do 5 to 10 percent less damage or you have to do something to assault there is no advantage for assault over logis, people are going to say sidearms but when logis have damage mods a sidearm won't help that much.
or assault have a built in damage mod "or assault have a built in damage mod" - TTK is already too quick, don't feel like making it any faster :S And I am warry of giving them a damage reduction, I feel like they should be able to be a combat suit if they give up their equipment.
i know i was trying to come up with some ideas |
Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
261
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Well put. +1
Also holy $/## you're back! Silly human, SoTa has been trolling since before you were born, no way that you were waiting for the Rail Rifle since then :P What's the concept of time to an immortal anyway? Good to see you haven't lost your touch. Well you weren't immortal from birth were you?
My answer to that is Templar One.
Something witty here.
How about?
#DELAY 514
... been waiting for a rail rifle longer than SoTa's been trolling.
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4080
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Well put. +1
Also holy $/## you're back! Silly human, SoTa has been trolling since before you were born, no way that you were waiting for the Rail Rifle since then :P What's the concept of time to an immortal anyway? Good to see you haven't lost your touch. Well you weren't immortal from birth were you? My answer to that is Templar One.
Funny, I just started reading that.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
7408
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:1.7 hits, Ion Pistol, Magsec SMG, Rail Rifle, and some kind of plasma grenade comes out. Which suit is better then? Logi? They said nothing about an Ion Pistol, magsec SMG or a plasma grenade. What we know for sure is the combat rifle, and rail rifle. Can you link for me where you got that? (Ion pistol, magsec SMG and plasma grenade)
Meant to have a "what if" in there.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4080
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Long time, no meow.
+1
Meow :)
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4083
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:1.7 hits, Ion Pistol, Magsec SMG, Rail Rifle, and some kind of plasma grenade comes out. Which suit is better then? Logi? They said nothing about an Ion Pistol, magsec SMG or a plasma grenade. What we know for sure is the combat rifle, and rail rifle. Can you link for me where you got that? (Ion pistol, magsec SMG and plasma grenade) Meant to have a "what if" in there.
Ah, that makes more sense.
Anyway, unless these sidearms are going to be OP, I don't see how that is an advanatage over logis.
I saw a logi with a flaylock lol
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cosgar
ParagonX
7411
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:1.7 hits, Ion Pistol, Magsec SMG, Rail Rifle, and some kind of plasma grenade comes out. Which suit is better then? Logi? They said nothing about an Ion Pistol, magsec SMG or a plasma grenade. What we know for sure is the combat rifle, and rail rifle. Can you link for me where you got that? (Ion pistol, magsec SMG and plasma grenade) Meant to have a "what if" in there. Ah, that makes more sense. Anyway, unless these sidearms are going to be OP, I don't see how that is an advanatage over logis. I saw a logi with a flaylock lol
All of those weapons are hybrid. Therefore the GalAss would be able to fit better weapons. Logi might have the tank, but the assault would have better gank.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4083
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:1.7 hits, Ion Pistol, Magsec SMG, Rail Rifle, and some kind of plasma grenade comes out. Which suit is better then? Logi? They said nothing about an Ion Pistol, magsec SMG or a plasma grenade. What we know for sure is the combat rifle, and rail rifle. Can you link for me where you got that? (Ion pistol, magsec SMG and plasma grenade) Meant to have a "what if" in there. Ah, that makes more sense. Anyway, unless these sidearms are going to be OP, I don't see how that is an advanatage over logis. I saw a logi with a flaylock lol All of those weapons are hybrid. Therefore the GalAss would be able to fit better weapons. Logi might have the tank, but the assault would have better gank.
Not to any significant extent.
I am using a standard SMG and yet I am far, far from being able to fit a duvolle.
And minmatar weapons have the lowest CPU/PG in the game.
So do 1+1 and you will see it won't make a difference.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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RedZer0 MK1
The Generals
EoN.
94
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Posted - 2013.11.06 21:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
I gave the best solution to this problem, hands down. Every other "fix" would break the Logi class, or make assaults unstoppable. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4084
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
RedZer0 MK1 wrote:I gave the best solution to this problem, hands down. Every other "fix" would break the Logi class, or make assaults unstoppable.
What was the solution?
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
513
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Posted - 2013.11.06 21:32:00 -
[33] - Quote
I'm a proto gall logi. A real one, not one that runs around with 6 triage hives. I run full logi suit, with all things necesary to give my team the edge. If you use your logi as an assault then you really are hurting your team. With all the one ups I give to my mates, They can win most engagements.
If someone doesnt like people using logi as an assault, they really don't know that that same logi with 6 triage hives die to a flux and a few rounds by my mates.
I kept them alive so they can kill you. And as a a fake logi, no one is keeping your teamates alive.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4084
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Posted - 2013.11.06 21:36:00 -
[34] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:I'm a proto gall logi. A real one, not one that runs around with 6 triage hives. I run full logi suit, with all things necesary to give my team the edge. If you use your logi as an assault then you really are hurting your team. With all the one ups I give to my mates, They can win most engagements.
If someone doesnt like people using logi as an assault, they really don't know that that same logi with 6 triage hives die to a flux and a few rounds by my mates.
I kept them alive so they can kill you. And as a a fake logi, no one is keeping your teamates alive.
That's cute.
Until you realized I stopped a squad of 6 proto slayers with just two triage hives.
A flux nades?
While I got two more.
A flux nade?
I got two more.
The fact that you are a true logi doesn't change the fact these suits can be abused, and are better than an assault when abused.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
Public Disorder.
482
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:I'm a proto gall logi. A real one, not one that runs around with 6 triage hives. I run full logi suit, with all things necesary to give my team the edge. If you use your logi as an assault then you really are hurting your team. With all the one ups I give to my mates, They can win most engagements.
If someone doesnt like people using logi as an assault, they really don't know that that same logi with 6 triage hives die to a flux and a few rounds by my mates.
I kept them alive so they can kill you. And as a a fake logi, no one is keeping your teamates alive.
If you're not using Triage Hives you shouldn't be using Gallente Logi. MinLogi does it better without them. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
1855
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:
weird i fit all proto type nanohives on my logi and have pretty good defences(630EHP) on a ADV suit(std AR),I have to use some lows for CPU/PG mods but hey thts the price i pay for wanting better equpiment over offensive/defences capabilities. When you take into account that logis have high BASE CPU/PG AND the slots to tank it seem kinda excessive to need all the CPU/PG to be able to fit most if all your suit with proto lvl things at proto without mods.
Ah I forgot to take into account CPU mods. My bad. Haven't used those since Chromosome. Brings back memories... Back when I was trying to beat Free in terms of best equipment per suit... Where is Free Healing anyway? He still leader of LOTIS?
"..things that some people frankly don't even get the chance to do in real life, because it's poorly designed."
-Veigar
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Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
118
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:What most people fail to realize that when people say "logi is OP", they don't mean that logi is simply a better fighter.
It's that they're pretty much the same as the assault (with a few swaps, like less speed but more eHP) BUT get 3-4 equipment slots.
When people stack plates and extenders in these threads to show that logis aren't that far ahead eHP wise, they fail to realize that stacking plates and extenders is not the best of suits.
Here are my logi and assault suits, each are designed to push it to the maximum, I have been tweaking my suits for ages and these are the optimal one's I found:
Note: I have CPU/PG skills maxed, I could not push this suit further.
Gallente Assault:
High:
Complex damage mod
Complex shield extender
Complex damage mod
Low:
Basic plate
Basic plate
Enhanced armor rep
Enhanced armor rep
Weapons:
GEK 38 Assault rifle
Syndicate SMG
Grenade:
M1 Locus
Equipment:
Allotek Nanohive
Armor: 449
Shield: 217
Combined: 666 (huehuehue)
Damage bonus (skills not included): 20%
Regen rate: 7.5hp/s
Movement speed: 4.81
Sprint speed: 7.08
Stamina: 157.50
Stamina regen: 15.75
Not bad right?
Now let's look at the Gallente logi:
High:
Complex damage mod
Complex damage mod
Complex shield extender
Low:
Enhanced ferroscale plate
Basic plate
Basic plate
Basic plate
Enhanced Cardiac regulator
Weapon:
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Grenade:
M1 Locus
Equipment:
Wiyrkomi Triage hives
Wiyrkomi Triage hives
A-86 active scanner
Ishukone Gauged hive
Shield: 181
Armor: 560
Combined: 741
Damage bonus (skills not included): 25% (I could fit a duvolle on my logi, which has +5% damage over a gek)
Regen rate: 5hp/s (Inherent logi regen)
Movement speed: 4.54 m/s
Sprint speed: 6.67m/s
Stamina: 198.19
Stamina regen: 22.89
Conclusion:
Seems pretty legit right?
The logi has more damage, more eHP, more stamina and more stamina regen for the price of speed and a sidearm right?
Oh wait, but that would only be legit if both were combat focused suits, I.E both have one equipment.
But the logi has 4 equipment slots, making it far far more verastile and just a better deal overall.
Especially with the 6x triage hives I fit on my logi, I am ******* invincible inside one of those.
Low on health?
Plop a triage hive, return to battle faster than shields can recharge.
I also couldn't fit a scanner on my assault, making me much more blind.
Also, I could fit a kin cat instead of a regulator to be even faster than my assault, but I prefer the sustainability that regulators provide.
How I think this should be solved:
Two problems that I see here:
1. Logis get 5hp/s on armor inherent, which allows me to give up on a armor rep and put on an extra plate, increasing the eHP gap further. HOWEVER CCP said they will change it once they have the infastracture to do it (something about the code doesn't allow them to put on a more logi orientated bonus)
2. The CPU/PG gap is just damn too high.
Could solve it by either reducing the CPU/PG on logis, forcing them to decide on either being a combat suit or a logi suit, not both, OR increasing the CPU/PG on the assault. (Should also buff the scout CPU/PG and heavy CPU/PG if this is done, just to be fair)
.....You used 2 enhanced armor rep on your suit so that's pretty easy to say "i don't have hp !!!!!" while 2 of your 4 hp slots are armor repa.......
And A gallente logi will never use Cardiac regulator.
So he have less stamina and speed.
Each time you take the worst choice possible for your assault (Come on 2 armor rep ? and only basic plates ???)
And you optimized your logi...
Anyway we must wait than the Logi bonus turn to PG/cpu about equipement THEN you could reduce PG/CPU for logi.
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VAHZZ
The dyst0pian Corporation
35
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
I will so try that assault build..and OH LOOK A KITTY!
> Master of the Sniper
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4084
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:I'm a proto gall logi. A real one, not one that runs around with 6 triage hives. I run full logi suit, with all things necesary to give my team the edge. If you use your logi as an assault then you really are hurting your team. With all the one ups I give to my mates, They can win most engagements.
If someone doesnt like people using logi as an assault, they really don't know that that same logi with 6 triage hives die to a flux and a few rounds by my mates.
I kept them alive so they can kill you. And as a a fake logi, no one is keeping your teamates alive.
So I went out to try and make a logi fit, as in a real logi.
I kept everything else the same, but just switched out the equipment.
I have an allotek hive, a scanner, a rep tool and an injector.
But the base suit is still as good as an assault...
I really don't see your argument, except for that you are one of the rare logis that actually do their job.
I will pray for scotty that he will match you with me because I miss having actual logi support from chromo *sniff*.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4084
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Cat Merc wrote:What most people fail to realize that when people say "logi is OP", they don't mean that logi is simply a better fighter.
It's that they're pretty much the same as the assault (with a few swaps, like less speed but more eHP) BUT get 3-4 equipment slots.
When people stack plates and extenders in these threads to show that logis aren't that far ahead eHP wise, they fail to realize that stacking plates and extenders is not the best of suits.
Here are my logi and assault suits, each are designed to push it to the maximum, I have been tweaking my suits for ages and these are the optimal one's I found:
Note: I have CPU/PG skills maxed, I could not push this suit further.
Gallente Assault:
High:
Complex damage mod
Complex shield extender
Complex damage mod
Low:
Basic plate
Basic plate
Enhanced armor rep
Enhanced armor rep
Weapons:
GEK 38 Assault rifle
Syndicate SMG
Grenade:
M1 Locus
Equipment:
Allotek Nanohive
Armor: 449
Shield: 217
Combined: 666 (huehuehue)
Damage bonus (skills not included): 20%
Regen rate: 7.5hp/s
Movement speed: 4.81
Sprint speed: 7.08
Stamina: 157.50
Stamina regen: 15.75
Not bad right?
Now let's look at the Gallente logi:
High:
Complex damage mod
Complex damage mod
Complex shield extender
Low:
Enhanced ferroscale plate
Basic plate
Basic plate
Basic plate
Enhanced Cardiac regulator
Weapon:
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Grenade:
M1 Locus
Equipment:
Wiyrkomi Triage hives
Wiyrkomi Triage hives
A-86 active scanner
Ishukone Gauged hive
Shield: 181
Armor: 560
Combined: 741
Damage bonus (skills not included): 25% (I could fit a duvolle on my logi, which has +5% damage over a gek)
Regen rate: 5hp/s (Inherent logi regen)
Movement speed: 4.54 m/s
Sprint speed: 6.67m/s
Stamina: 198.19
Stamina regen: 22.89
Conclusion:
Seems pretty legit right?
The logi has more damage, more eHP, more stamina and more stamina regen for the price of speed and a sidearm right?
Oh wait, but that would only be legit if both were combat focused suits, I.E both have one equipment.
But the logi has 4 equipment slots, making it far far more verastile and just a better deal overall.
Especially with the 6x triage hives I fit on my logi, I am ******* invincible inside one of those.
Low on health?
Plop a triage hive, return to battle faster than shields can recharge.
I also couldn't fit a scanner on my assault, making me much more blind.
Also, I could fit a kin cat instead of a regulator to be even faster than my assault, but I prefer the sustainability that regulators provide.
How I think this should be solved:
Two problems that I see here:
1. Logis get 5hp/s on armor inherent, which allows me to give up on a armor rep and put on an extra plate, increasing the eHP gap further. HOWEVER CCP said they will change it once they have the infastracture to do it (something about the code doesn't allow them to put on a more logi orientated bonus)
2. The CPU/PG gap is just damn too high.
Could solve it by either reducing the CPU/PG on logis, forcing them to decide on either being a combat suit or a logi suit, not both, OR increasing the CPU/PG on the assault. (Should also buff the scout CPU/PG and heavy CPU/PG if this is done, just to be fair) .....You used 2 enhanced armor rep on your suit so that's pretty easy to say "i don't have hp !!!!!" while 2 of your 4 hp slots are armor repa....... And A gallente logi will never use Cardiac regulator. So he have less stamina and speed. Each time you take the worst choice possible for your assault (Come on 2 armor rep ? and only basic plates ???) And you optimized your logi... Anyway we must wait than the Logi bonus turn to PG/cpu about equipement THEN you could reduce PG/CPU for logi.
I optimized my assault.
I wanted to fit better ****, but my CPU/PG is maxed.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
|
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Cosgar
ParagonX
7412
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
Not to any significant extent.
I am using a standard SMG and yet I am far, far from being able to fit a duvolle.
And minmatar weapons have the lowest CPU/PG in the game.
So do 1+1 and you will see it won't make a difference.
Sounds like you just don't want to accept the difference. Now I agree that those differences are pretty narrow, but the idea was:
Assault = Weapon/offense based bonuses, more firepower, (with sidearms) better base stats, faster regen, not as tanky.
Logi = Support/Non-Combat based bonuses, less firepower, more customizable, worst base stats, slow regen, more tanky.
Both suits have their advantages and disadvantages, but I agree the GaLogi seems better on paper since it can tank more. The assault kind of lacks compared to the others since you don't really have the speed since it armor tanks. It's still a solid suit, but the problem is more on the assault side than the logi side. I'd rather see CCP adjust assault bonuses before they think of touching logistics. Unless you like that shield bonus on an armor suit that is...
Hell, give give the assaults 25% to their base shield recharge and replace the bonus with something more useful like a fitting reduction to weapons (including grenades) and weapon mods. Imagine that stacking with the Gallente assault's bonus, you could probably fit a Duvolle, Ishukone, and M-1 locus grenades at the same time.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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DJINN Marauder
Ancient Exiles
2620
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nyaa
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 2
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4085
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:48:00 -
[43] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
Not to any significant extent.
I am using a standard SMG and yet I am far, far from being able to fit a duvolle.
And minmatar weapons have the lowest CPU/PG in the game.
So do 1+1 and you will see it won't make a difference.
Sounds like you just don't want to accept the difference. Now I agree that those differences are pretty narrow, but the idea was: Assault = Weapon/offense based bonuses, more firepower, (with sidearms) better base stats, faster regen, not as tanky. Logi = Support/Non-Combat based bonuses, less firepower, more customizable, worst base stats, slow regen, more tanky. Both suits have their advantages and disadvantages, but I agree the GaLogi seems better on paper since it can tank more. The assault kind of lacks compared to the others since you don't really have the speed since it armor tanks. It's still a solid suit, but the problem is more on the assault side than the logi side. I'd rather see CCP adjust assault bonuses before they think of touching logistics. Unless you like that shield bonus on an armor suit that is... Hell, give give the assaults 25% to their base shield recharge and replace the bonus with something more useful like a fitting reduction to weapons (including grenades) and weapon mods. Imagine that stacking with the Gallente assault's bonus, you could probably fit a Duvolle, Ishukone, and M-1 locus grenades at the same time.
Would love that honestly.
But less firepower part just isn't true IMHO.
When you have a duvolle with 2x complex damage mods and a 15% proficiency bonus, you just melt things anyway.
I only use a sidearm when I go against 3-4 people at the same time within the same room (no time to reload).
And even then I only need to finish off the fourth guy since my duvolle already wrecked him.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4085
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:Nyaa
Shuddup, you are 2 levels of forum warrioring below me :P
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
118
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Posted - 2013.11.06 21:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
Quote:I optimized my assault.
I wanted to fit better ****, but my CPU/PG is maxed.
Nope dude.....
First remove your Complex shield extender.
You're Gallente why using 11PG (it's BIIIG) for only 66hp of shield ?
I don't remember but how much Pg cost a Complex damager ? |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4085
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Quote:I optimized my assault.
I wanted to fit better ****, but my CPU/PG is maxed. Nope dude..... First remove your Complex shield extender. You're Gallente why using 11PG (it's BIIIG) for only 66hp of shield ? I don't remember but how much Pg cost a Complex damager ?
Complex damage = 9 PG.
I use a complex extender because of grenade and MD spam, armor has -30% resistance to explsovies while shield has +30%.
This gives me that little bit of reaction time I need to deal with explosive spam.
In addition, damage mods have stacking penalties, the third damage mod would do 54% of it's original bonus, so instead of 10% it's 5.4%.
A shield extender gives me way better bang for the buck in that regard.
Lastly, if I put on a third damage mod, my CPU get's strained, and I can't fit anything.
A shield extender kinda balances things out, with damage mods being more heavy on CPU and extenders being more heavy on PG.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
7412
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 22:01:00 -
[47] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
Would love that honestly.
But less firepower part just isn't true IMHO.
When you have a duvolle with 2x complex damage mods and a 15% proficiency bonus, you just melt things anyway.
I only use a sidearm when I go against 3-4 people at the same time within the same room (no time to reload).
And even then I only need to finish off the fourth guy since my duvolle already wrecked him.
Duvolle with 2x CLDMs and prof 5 can melt anything without prejudice from who ever his on the pleasure end of the gun. Doesn't mean the suit that can fit it is OP.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4087
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 22:01:00 -
[48] - Quote
Alright peeps I'm going to sleep, have fun debating and I will return tomorrow to ensla... I mean hire ya'll for my cat business.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4087
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 22:02:00 -
[49] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
Would love that honestly.
But less firepower part just isn't true IMHO.
When you have a duvolle with 2x complex damage mods and a 15% proficiency bonus, you just melt things anyway.
I only use a sidearm when I go against 3-4 people at the same time within the same room (no time to reload).
And even then I only need to finish off the fourth guy since my duvolle already wrecked him.
Duvolle with 2x CLDMs and prof 5 can melt anything without prejudice from who ever his on the pleasure end of the gun. Doesn't mean the suit that can fit it is OP.
That's my point, when you use something like that a sidearm isn't nearly as useful, making the firepower difference between a logi and assault nearly non existant.
Alright, I'm off to sleep, meow.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
7412
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 22:06:00 -
[50] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
That's my point, when you use something like that a sidearm isn't nearly as useful, making the firepower difference between a logi and assault nearly non existant.
Alright, I'm off to sleep, meow.
So, a gun that's so powerful that you don't even need a sidearm isn't OP, but a suit that doesn't have a sidearm uses it suddenly is?
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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|
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
678
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 22:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
Dear god your back
But anyways I wish we had a logi suit that had 4 equipment slots at all tiers, in exchange for a low/high slot.
If CCP did this then I'd crap myself. We'd finally have a way of separating Assualt Logi's from Triage Logi's.
There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry
You'll still be useful in my eyes
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Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1746
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 22:11:00 -
[52] - Quote
Alright, lets just call it a logi-assault suit and be done with it. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4088
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 22:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
That's my point, when you use something like that a sidearm isn't nearly as useful, making the firepower difference between a logi and assault nearly non existant.
Alright, I'm off to sleep, meow.
So, a gun that's so powerful that you don't even need a sidearm isn't OP, but a suit that doesn't have a sidearm uses it suddenly is?
So, youtube didn't let me sleep, so I will stay here for a few more minutes.
I don't see your logic.
If they both have the same firepower (Since we put the sidearm out of the equation), but one has higher eHP, higher stamina and regen, for a lower speed, but 4 equipment....
The upsides keep stacking up for the logi :\
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Vesago Ghostcore
Rejected Clones
59
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Posted - 2013.11.06 22:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
If they added HP to shields and armor for Assault suits only... I mean not logis OR basics, proportionally to the new heavy buff would that even things out in your opinion? Say +40 to both. Personally I use both the Gal Logi, and the Gal Assault suits, so nerfing Logi's would just move me over to assaults because I like survivability and Logi seems to be pretty thankless most times anyway. I don't think the objective is to alienate people but to give the Assault more of a role specific boost right?
I think Scouts should also get a HP buff of at least +20 each if not 30.
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Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
407
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Posted - 2013.11.06 22:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
See in just putting out straight numbers you neglect the part where Cat Merc's assault suit is able to use it's increased speed and stamina to flank Cat Merc's logi suit and bring it's EHP down by half before the logi suit can even bring it's duvolle to bear on the assault suit.
In my experience my advanced assault minmatar suit is better for killing than either my proto gallente logi or my proto amarr logi. And that is a 11 mil SP character vs a 22 mil SP character. I will grant you that I build my logi suits to be actual logis, but they both are still pretty well tanked (I think about 850 EHP on the gallente and about 750 EHP on the amarr). |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4093
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 22:34:00 -
[56] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:See in just putting out straight numbers you neglect the part where Cat Merc's assault suit is able to use it's increased speed and stamina to flank Cat Merc's logi suit and bring it's EHP down by half before the logi suit can even bring it's duvolle to bear on the assault suit.
In my experience my advanced assault minmatar suit is better for killing than either my proto gallente logi or my proto amarr logi. And that is a 11 mil SP character vs a 22 mil SP character. I will grant you that I build my logi suits to be actual logis, but they both are still pretty well tanked (I think about 850 EHP on the gallente and about 750 EHP on the amarr).
Oh hey, the logi has a scanner that can see everything within a 100m radius, making flankers a non issue.
And that logi has better stamina and stamina regen incase you didn't notice.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cosgar
ParagonX
7413
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Posted - 2013.11.06 22:34:00 -
[57] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
That's my point, when you use something like that a sidearm isn't nearly as useful, making the firepower difference between a logi and assault nearly non existant.
Alright, I'm off to sleep, meow.
So, a gun that's so powerful that you don't even need a sidearm isn't OP, but a suit that doesn't have a sidearm uses it suddenly is? So, youtube didn't let me sleep, so I will stay here for a few more minutes. I don't see your logic. If they both have the same firepower (Since we put the sidearm out of the equation), but one has higher eHP, higher stamina and regen, for a lower speed, but 4 equipment.... The upsides keep stacking up for the logi :\
Nerf the damn Duvolle. There, I said it.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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8213
Grade No.2
548
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 22:35:00 -
[58] - Quote
Honestly, all I could think of after I read that was "well duh..."
 |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4093
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 22:36:00 -
[59] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
That's my point, when you use something like that a sidearm isn't nearly as useful, making the firepower difference between a logi and assault nearly non existant.
Alright, I'm off to sleep, meow.
So, a gun that's so powerful that you don't even need a sidearm isn't OP, but a suit that doesn't have a sidearm uses it suddenly is? So, youtube didn't let me sleep, so I will stay here for a few more minutes. I don't see your logic. If they both have the same firepower (Since we put the sidearm out of the equation), but one has higher eHP, higher stamina and regen, for a lower speed, but 4 equipment.... The upsides keep stacking up for the logi :\ Nerf the damn Duvolle. There, I said it.
To make it even more useless?
The only reason I'm using the AR is because of the CPU/PG bonus I get with the assault, and with the logi I used it in this comparison for fair game.
My SCR MELTS everything, It's my new baby.
3 shots to kill a person, 24 shots to overheat. Seems legit.
Not to mention the rail rifle looking like it will kick the AR's butt, and the combat rifle while it will have lower DPS, it will have longer range and lower CPU/PG.
Duvolle is far from OP.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4096
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Posted - 2013.11.06 22:42:00 -
[60] - Quote
*Yawn*
Finally, I feel tired.
Later peeps.
Have fun either agreeing with me and feeding me sardin or throwing poop at me and booing :P
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
1438
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Posted - 2013.11.06 22:47:00 -
[61] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:What most people fail to realize that when people say "logi is OP", they don't mean that logi is simply a better fighter.
It's that they're pretty much the same as the assault (with a few swaps, like less speed but more eHP) BUT get 3-4 equipment slots.
When people stack plates and extenders in these threads to show that logis aren't that far ahead eHP wise, they fail to realize that stacking plates and extenders is not the best of suits.
Here are my logi and assault suits, each are designed to push it to the maximum, I have been tweaking my suits for ages and these are the optimal one's I found:
Note: I have CPU/PG skills maxed, I could not push this suit further.
Gallente Assault:
High:
Complex damage mod
Complex shield extender
Complex damage mod
Low:
Basic plate
Basic plate
Enhanced armor rep
Enhanced armor rep
Weapons:
GEK 38 Assault rifle
Syndicate SMG
Grenade:
M1 Locus
Equipment:
Allotek Nanohive
Armor: 449
Shield: 217
Combined: 666 (huehuehue)
Damage bonus (skills not included): 20%
Regen rate: 7.5hp/s
Movement speed: 4.81
Sprint speed: 7.08
Stamina: 157.50
Stamina regen: 15.75
Not bad right?
Now let's look at the Gallente logi:
High:
Complex damage mod
Complex damage mod
Complex shield extender
Low:
Enhanced ferroscale plate
Basic plate
Basic plate
Basic plate
Enhanced Cardiac regulator
Weapon:
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Grenade:
M1 Locus
Equipment:
Wiyrkomi Triage hives
Wiyrkomi Triage hives
A-86 active scanner
Ishukone Gauged hive
Shield: 181
Armor: 560
Combined: 741
Damage bonus (skills not included): 25% (I could fit a duvolle on my logi, which has +5% damage over a gek)
Regen rate: 5hp/s (Inherent logi regen)
Movement speed: 4.54 m/s
Sprint speed: 6.67m/s
Stamina: 198.19
Stamina regen: 22.89
Conclusion:
Seems pretty legit right?
The logi has more damage, more eHP, more stamina and more stamina regen for the price of speed and a sidearm right?
Oh wait, but that would only be legit if both were combat focused suits, I.E both have one equipment.
But the logi has 4 equipment slots, making it far far more verastile and just a better deal overall.
Especially with the 6x triage hives I fit on my logi, I am ******* invincible inside one of those.
Low on health?
Plop a triage hive, return to battle faster than shields can recharge.
I also couldn't fit a scanner on my assault, making me much more blind.
Also, I could fit a kin cat instead of a regulator to be even faster than my assault, but I prefer the sustainability that regulators provide.
How I think this should be solved:
Two problems that I see here:
1. Logis get 5hp/s on armor inherent, which allows me to give up on a armor rep and put on an extra plate, increasing the eHP gap further. HOWEVER CCP said they will change it once they have the infastracture to do it (something about the code doesn't allow them to put on a more logi orientated bonus)
2. The CPU/PG gap is just damn too high.
Could solve it by either reducing the CPU/PG on logis, forcing them to decide on either being a combat suit or a logi suit, not both, OR increasing the CPU/PG on the assault. (Should also buff the scout CPU/PG and heavy CPU/PG if this is done, just to be fair)
Or we could just reduce their damage output.......
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
|
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
218
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 23:00:00 -
[62] - Quote
What does nerfing a gun have to do with the stats of a suit? if it is nerfed it is nerf consistantly across the board it wont magicly make the logi worse unless they nerf it to a point where it takes a full mag+ to kill anyone but thats a bit of a over nerf by like a lot.
As far as i can tell cats point is that the logi suit is op because it is as like 90% as effective as a assualt suit at least for combat yet 3 to 4 times as effective at being a support because of superior hp and equipment slots while not having a weakness to justify how effective it is at its role.
Either the assualt needs a buff say bonus to raw dps as for a offencive suit it cant out shoot a suport suit or the logi needs some sort of nerf perhaps side arm only would be the best way to enforce the fact they are designed for support but that is possibly a little drastic but it is something i personally think would be a uniqueish addition to the game. |
Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
797
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 23:04:00 -
[63] - Quote
that gallente assault fit is just bad  beside that the assault is cheaper to fit with 4 slots less to fill and faster to max out SP wise.
the shield recharge bonus on the gallente assault is just bad for this suit and the armor repair bonus on the logi too good, that is the actual problem but it is not as bad as cat merc tries to make it look. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
189
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 23:08:00 -
[64] - Quote
The sidearm is easily worth two or even three extra equipment slots. However many nanohives you have you can't start shooting redberries with them when you've got through your duvolle clip.
I still think the suits are nicely balanced. I would've specced into one or the other rather than agonising for days over min assault versus min logi if they weren't. |
Scheherazade VII
82
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 23:19:00 -
[65] - Quote
they already nerfed CPU.
if they nerfed it any further logis would be paper weights. just useless and also paper thin.
but they would still want to use good equipment! so they'd just die and lose ISK.
leave the logi alone.
GêÜGëêDUST VIDEOSGëêGêÜ
|
Assert Dominance
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
442
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 23:29:00 -
[66] - Quote
Meow.
This game needs respecs every month. uMad
buttsmex
|
Evicer
THE HECATONCHIRES
41
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 23:30:00 -
[67] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:What most people fail to realize that when people say "logi is OP", they don't mean that logi is simply a better fighter.
It's that they're pretty much the same as the assault (with a few swaps, like less speed but more eHP) BUT get 3-4 equipment slots.
When people stack plates and extenders in these threads to show that logis aren't that far ahead eHP wise, they fail to realize that stacking plates and extenders is not the best of suits.
Here are my logi and assault suits, each are designed to push it to the maximum, I have been tweaking my suits for ages and these are the optimal one's I found:
Note: I have CPU/PG skills maxed, I could not push this suit further.
Gallente Assault:
High:
Complex damage mod
Complex shield extender
Complex damage mod
Low:
Basic plate
Basic plate
Enhanced armor rep
Enhanced armor rep
Weapons:
GEK 38 Assault rifle
Syndicate SMG
Grenade:
M1 Locus
Equipment:
Allotek Nanohive
Armor: 449
Shield: 217
Combined: 666 (huehuehue)
Damage bonus (skills not included): 20%
Regen rate: 7.5hp/s
Movement speed: 4.81
Sprint speed: 7.08
Stamina: 157.50
Stamina regen: 15.75
Not bad right?
Now let's look at the Gallente logi:
High:
Complex damage mod
Complex damage mod
Complex shield extender
Low:
Enhanced ferroscale plate
Basic plate
Basic plate
Basic plate
Enhanced Cardiac regulator
Weapon:
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Grenade:
M1 Locus
Equipment:
Wiyrkomi Triage hives
Wiyrkomi Triage hives
A-86 active scanner
Ishukone Gauged hive
Shield: 181
Armor: 560
Combined: 741
Damage bonus (skills not included): 25% (I could fit a duvolle on my logi, which has +5% damage over a gek)
Regen rate: 5hp/s (Inherent logi regen)
Movement speed: 4.54 m/s
Sprint speed: 6.67m/s
Stamina: 198.19
Stamina regen: 22.89
Conclusion:
Seems pretty legit right?
The logi has more damage, more eHP, more stamina and more stamina regen for the price of speed and a sidearm right?
Oh wait, but that would only be legit if both were combat focused suits, I.E both have one equipment.
But the logi has 4 equipment slots, making it far far more verastile and just a better deal overall.
Especially with the 6x triage hives I fit on my logi, I am ******* invincible inside one of those.
Low on health?
Plop a triage hive, return to battle faster than shields can recharge.
I also couldn't fit a scanner on my assault, making me much more blind.
Also, I could fit a kin cat instead of a regulator to be even faster than my assault, but I prefer the sustainability that regulators provide.
How I think this should be solved:
Two problems that I see here:
1. Logis get 5hp/s on armor inherent, which allows me to give up on a armor rep and put on an extra plate, increasing the eHP gap further. HOWEVER CCP said they will change it once they have the infastracture to do it (something about the code doesn't allow them to put on a more logi orientated bonus)
2. The CPU/PG gap is just damn too high.
Could solve it by either reducing the CPU/PG on logis, forcing them to decide on either being a combat suit or a logi suit, not both, OR increasing the CPU/PG on the assault. (Should also buff the scout CPU/PG and heavy CPU/PG if this is done, just to be fair) Cat ....In your senario you've left out the part where The Gallente Logi suit get CPU/PG reduction to equipment and your Gallents Lvl 5 proto Assault suit gives you a reduction of 25% to hybrid weapons IE your AR...
All the other Logi suits dont get those bonuses.....
Sorry but ya gets no plus one.I do not approve of this shikanery
Closed Beta Tester: Survivor of Infantry lock on swarms,map glitches,Large missile SIgarus spawn camps,and PS3 crashes.
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OwnD07
DUST CORE
Zero-Day
36
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 23:44:00 -
[68] - Quote
Woof.
Welcome back, Cat Merc.
+1
Gÿ¦
|
Meeko Fent
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
1413
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 00:06:00 -
[69] - Quote
Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ)
Cal Logi-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharing
Cal Salt-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharing
Gal Salt-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharing
Gal Logi-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharing
Min Salt-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharing
Min Logi-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharing
Amarr Salt-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharing
Amarr Logi-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharing
As you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed.
The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it.
The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front.
The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead.
The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead.
However, they have an boost of HP.
Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant
Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant
Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant.
Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots
While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace.
So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective.
Balanced you say?
Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon!
We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
King of Uncertainty.
|
Mejt0
Made in Poland...
54
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 00:32:00 -
[70] - Quote
Logis are and will outrole assaults. If ccp wont do anything, the only way is to spec into logi. I play as assault and logi and i do more kills and support and wp with logi.
Also, logis can run longer and regen faster as Cats says. Its damn annyoing that logis do both jobs, without weaknes and looses. |
|
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Cosgar
ParagonX
7428
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 00:36:00 -
[71] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:Logis are and will outrole assaults. If ccp wont do anything, the only way is to spec into logi. I play as assault and logi and i do more kills and support and wp with logi.
Also, logis can run longer and regen faster as Cats says. Its damn annyoing that logis do both jobs, without weaknes and looses.
Logi actually have less stamina than assaults. I had to dump SP into complex cardiac regulators just so I can keep up with my squad.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Mejt0
Made in Poland...
54
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 00:44:00 -
[72] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Mejt0 wrote:Logis are and will outrole assaults. If ccp wont do anything, the only way is to spec into logi. I play as assault and logi and i do more kills and support and wp with logi.
Also, logis can run longer and regen faster as Cats says. Its damn annyoing that logis do both jobs, without weaknes and looses. Logi actually have less stamina than assaults. I had to dump SP into complex cardiac regulators just so I can keep up with my squad.
You can easly put kin cat etc. So you have more stamina. Assaults cant bec they will lose 1 slot and they'll be even easier to kill. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
7430
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 00:51:00 -
[73] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:Cosgar wrote:Mejt0 wrote:Logis are and will outrole assaults. If ccp wont do anything, the only way is to spec into logi. I play as assault and logi and i do more kills and support and wp with logi.
Also, logis can run longer and regen faster as Cats says. Its damn annyoing that logis do both jobs, without weaknes and looses. Logi actually have less stamina than assaults. I had to dump SP into complex cardiac regulators just so I can keep up with my squad. You can easly put kin cat etc. So you have more stamina. Assaults cant bec they will lose 1 slot and they'll be even easier to kill.
And that's how things get balanced out. Logi base stats lower compared medium suit baseline, that you have to decide on how to fit your suit. More slots may look like OP on paper, but every time you fill a slot with something, you're giving something else up. Want to brick tank? You're going to be slow as molasses. Want some speed and stamina? Not going to have a lot of armor. Want to put on that shield energizer? Welp, that means you got one less shield slot. A logi suit can't be better than an assault because it lacks the base stats. Sure, you can be tanky, fast, invisible to scanners, or have high DPS, but not all at the same time.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
684
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 00:59:00 -
[74] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:Logis are and will outrole assaults. If ccp wont do anything, the only way is to spec into logi. I play as assault and logi and i do more kills and support and wp with logi.
Also, logis can run longer and regen faster as Cats says. Its damn annyoing that logis do both jobs, without weaknes and looses.
You do realize that without that repair bonus, we would have to rely on other logis right?
A logi shouldn't be afraid to risk their lives to save someone because their armor wasn't repped. Yeah sure you could run an armor repper, but that's more CPU/PG wasted.
And less CPU means that I can't run ADV and PRO equipment.
There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry
You'll still be useful in my eyes
|
Fire of Prometheus
DUST University
Ivy League
1469
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 01:23:00 -
[75] - Quote
I'd rather buff the assault before we nerf the logi, IMO the amarr logi is pretty balanced, along with the minmatar and gallente logi.....now the callogi is a whole different ball park
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
|
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2270
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 01:33:00 -
[76] - Quote
Amarr Logi A/1 series is THE BEST MED FRAME at ADV level.Sh*t. The BEST suit at ADV level.
Think of it, 6 low /high slots, 3 eq slots, sidearm , Light weapon,grenade slot. It does EVERYTHING,from tanking up to 900 HP, to be profile dampned with 650 HP,to be a true logi, etc...
(mi personal favourite Logi)
At proto level, nothing beats Caldari and Gallente Logis.
-Logis need their Repair Bonus CHANGED to the Gal Logi default bonus:
GÖª All logis get 5% reduction in equipment CPU/PG cost.
OR
-Logis need to have the SAME amound of high / low slots as Assaults. Leave CPU and PG as they are since they will need them for good equipment.
At proto:
Gÿ+ Cal Logi: 4 highs 3 lows 3 equipment slots
Gÿ+ Gal Logis: 3 Highs 4 Lows 4 Equipment slots
Gÿ+ Minmatar Logis : 4 Highs 3 Lows 4 Equipment slots
Gÿ+ Amarr Logis : 3 Highs 3 Lows 3 Equipment slots + Sidearm (@ adv level 3 Highs and 2 Lows {So there is a point going into Proto})
BOTH these options come with a Side dish of:
-Logis need to have all equipment slots full in order to be a valid Fitting.
BALANCE
u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É
|
Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1418
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 01:42:00 -
[77] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Amarr Logi A/1 series is THE BEST MED FRAME at ADV level.Sh*t. The BEST suit at ADV level.
Think of it, 6 low /high slots, 3 eq slots, sidearm , Light weapon,grenade slot. It does EVERYTHING,from tanking up to 900 HP, to be profile dampned with 650 HP,to be a true logi, etc...
(mi personal favourite Logi)
At proto level, nothing beats Caldari and Gallente Logis.
-Logis need their Repair Bonus CHANGED to the Gal Logi default bonus:
GÖª All logis get 5% reduction in equipment CPU/PG cost.
OR
-Logis need to have the SAME amound of high / low slots as Assaults. Leave CPU and PG as they are since they will need them for good equipment.
At proto:
Gÿ+ Cal Logi: 4 highs 3 lows 3 equipment slots
Gÿ+ Gal Logis: 3 Highs 4 Lows 4 Equipment slots
Gÿ+ Minmatar Logis : 4 Highs 3 Lows 4 Equipment slots
Gÿ+ Amarr Logis : 3 Highs 3 Lows 3 Equipment slots + Sidearm (@ adv level 3 Highs and 2 Lows {So there is a point going into Proto})
BOTH these options come with a Side dish of:
-Logis need to have all equipment slots full in order to be a valid Fitting.
BALANCE
I want to agree with you, but I also want to say that making them fill their equips is very restricting.
However, I actually want option A and B.
The logi bonus now is stupid for what they are doing.
And by equalizing the potential HP values, you get a good balance between the 3 med frames.
Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon!
We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
King of Uncertainty.
|
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2272
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 01:45:00 -
[78] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:
I want to agree with you, but I also want to say that making them fill their equips is very restricting.
However, I actually want option A and B.
The logi bonus now is stupid for what they are doing.
And by equalizing the potential HP values, you get a good balance between the 3 med frames.
Not if the CPU and PG is left the same. (remember would be the same CPU/PG but with less High or Low slots and with the restriction to have to equip all EQ slots.) They can actually equip the whole 3-4 eq slots full,and have enough to tank very good. Just not the 900-1100+ EHP good they have now while ignoring equipment slots for Ammo/A.Scanners/Grenades/Proto weapons/Proto Modules, etc...
u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É
|
Fire of Prometheus
DUST University
Ivy League
1473
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 01:47:00 -
[79] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:
I want to agree with you, but I also want to say that making them fill their equips is very restricting.
However, I actually want option A and B.
The logi bonus now is stupid for what they are doing.
And by equalizing the potential HP values, you get a good balance between the 3 med frames.
Not if the CPU and PG is left the same. (remember would be the same CPU/PG but with less High or Low slots and with the restriction to have to equip all EQ slots.) They can actually equip the whole 3-4 eq slots full,and have enough to tank very good. Just not the 900-1100+ EHP good they have now while ignoring equipment slots for Ammo/A.Scanners/Grenades/Proto weapons/Proto Modules, etc... I mean dont get me wrong, Buffs or nerfs i win. I will g o Proto Amarr Logi this week.
If logis need to have all their equipment slots filled, then I can't use 3/4 my amarr logi sniper fits.
Then what am I supposed to do?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
|
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2272
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 01:49:00 -
[80] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:
If logis need to have all their equipment slots filled, then I can't use 3/4 my amarr logi sniper fits.
Then what am I supposed to do?
Thats the idea.
Assaults and Scouts should be sniping. not logis :3
u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É
|
|
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Fire of Prometheus
DUST University
Ivy League
1476
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 01:54:00 -
[81] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Fire of Prometheus wrote:
If logis need to have all their equipment slots filled, then I can't use 3/4 my amarr logi sniper fits.
Then what am I supposed to do?
Thats the idea. Assaults and Scouts should be sniping. not logis :3
But I dumped the majority of my sp into logis and sniping (not because logis are OP but because if I'm on the frontlines I'll be doing repping instead of shooting) :(
I still would like to see an assault buff before a logi nerf
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
7437
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 02:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Amarr Logi A/1 series is THE BEST MED FRAME at ADV level.Sh*t. The BEST suit at ADV level.
Think of it, 6 low /high slots, 3 eq slots, sidearm , Light weapon,grenade slot. It does EVERYTHING,from tanking up to 900 HP, to be profile dampned with 650 HP,to be a true logi, etc...
(mi personal favourite Logi)
At proto level, nothing beats Caldari and Gallente Logis.
-Logis need their Repair Bonus CHANGED to the Gal Logi default bonus:
GÖª All logis get 5% reduction in equipment CPU/PG cost.
OR
-Logis need to have the SAME amound of high / low slots as Assaults. Leave CPU and PG as they are since they will need them for good equipment.
At proto:
Gÿ+ Cal Logi: 4 highs 3 lows 3 equipment slots
Gÿ+ Gal Logis: 3 Highs 4 Lows 4 Equipment slots
Gÿ+ Minmatar Logis : 4 Highs 3 Lows 4 Equipment slots
Gÿ+ Amarr Logis : 3 Highs 3 Lows 3 Equipment slots + Sidearm (@ adv level 3 Highs and 2 Lows {So there is a point going into Proto})
BOTH these options come with a Side dish of:
-Logis need to have all equipment slots full in order to be a valid Fitting.
BALANCE
That's your balance. All I keep seeing on here is "Mom! He has more HP than me!" FFS we all die just about the same with how screwed up this game is anyway when most weapons' DPS damn near matches or surpasses an average suit's EHP. Give it a rest. I'm sick of getting hate mail for using my "noob suit" from some butthurt punk that thought logi = easy kill. (I run ADV fittings with ~550EHP and ADV weapons)
Tossing around the nerf bat freely while core gameplay is borked is what ruined the flaylock pistol. And I'll be damned if the logistics is going to wind up like that. Give it a rest. The problem is on the assault's side more than anything but unlike scouts and heavies that want buffs, assaults have to drag everything down. This community makes me sick.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1418
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 02:48:00 -
[83] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Fire of Prometheus wrote:
If logis need to have all their equipment slots filled, then I can't use 3/4 my amarr logi sniper fits.
Then what am I supposed to do?
Thats the idea. Assaults and Scouts should be sniping. not logis :3 But I dumped the majority of my sp into logis and sniping (not because logis are OP but because if I'm on the frontlines I'll be doing repping instead of shooting) :( I still would like to see an assault buff before a logi nerf
Shh, any mention of that word results in fire and brimstone to appear on these forums.
If you buff assaults, then you need to buff the basic med frames, and the heavies, and the scouts.
Buffing EVERYTHING up to the level of an abused item seems like a bad idea.
It be like buffing every weapon in the game to compete with the TAR.
It's the only outlier in HP and damage that wasn't entirely intentional.
I know CCP gave the logis those slots for CPU and PG mods, but they could've made the logi able to fit its equipment in a more logical way as opposed to give them more slots
Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon!
We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
King of Uncertainty.
|
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2276
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 02:50:00 -
[84] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Fire of Prometheus wrote:
If logis need to have all their equipment slots filled, then I can't use 3/4 my amarr logi sniper fits.
Then what am I supposed to do?
Thats the idea. Assaults and Scouts should be sniping. not logis :3 But I dumped the majority of my sp into logis and sniping (not because logis are OP but because if I'm on the frontlines I'll be doing repping instead of shooting) :( I still would like to see an assault buff before a logi nerf
Then Join our Respec pettition army.
/Solved :3
u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É
|
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
Public Disorder.
485
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 02:51:00 -
[85] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Fire of Prometheus wrote:
If logis need to have all their equipment slots filled, then I can't use 3/4 my amarr logi sniper fits.
Then what am I supposed to do?
Thats the idea. Assaults and Scouts should be sniping. not logis :3
That logic contradicts with skill customization. The main thing that's driving Dust right now. |
Fire of Prometheus
DUST University
Ivy League
1476
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 02:56:00 -
[86] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Fire of Prometheus wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Fire of Prometheus wrote:
If logis need to have all their equipment slots filled, then I can't use 3/4 my amarr logi sniper fits.
Then what am I supposed to do?
Thats the idea. Assaults and Scouts should be sniping. not logis :3 But I dumped the majority of my sp into logis and sniping (not because logis are OP but because if I'm on the frontlines I'll be doing repping instead of shooting) :( I still would like to see an assault buff before a logi nerf Then Join our Respec pettition army.
/Solved :3
But I like my fits and stuff....my logi ak0 is so smexy
It would be a pain to Re-allocate all of my sp, it's been used in such a precise way that if anything is changed it'll mess up at least half my fits
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2276
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 02:56:00 -
[87] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
That's your balance.
Whut? Havnt you seen me around lately? I Run a 650 / Profile Dampned Amarr Logi with ASCR or a 900 HP With a LAser. The only times i use assault is while using my Imperial...
Im not complaining in a QQ , im asking to blaance it so every suit has their utility. as it is, they dont.
Quote: All I keep seeing on here is "Mom! He has more HP than me!" FFS we all die just about the same with how screwed up this game is anyway when most weapons' DPS damn near matches or surpasses an average suit's EHP.
This is not true. My Amarr Assault has around 630 HP and my Logi 900 (This is at ADV level mind you). PLUS innate Armor regen. I dO feel the HP difference a lot.
Quote:Give it a rest. I'm sick of getting hate mail for using my "noob suit" from some butthurt punk that thought logi = easy kill. (I run ADV fittings with ~550EHP and ADV weapons)
Logis might not be always EZ kill suit, but they SURE ARE EZ to stay alive suit....
Quote:Tossing around the nerf bat freely while core gameplay is borked is what ruined the flaylock pistol.
THE FP now is a little UP but still usable. Does it need a slight buff? Sure. Does it need o be a 1HKO Dual wielded mass driver as it was ? NO.
Quote:And I'll be damned if the logistics is going to wind up like that. Give it a rest. The problem is on the assault's side more than anything but unlike scouts and heavies that want buffs, assaults have to drag everything down. This community makes me sick.
You'll be damned becaues you know its the best suit. You cant call me a sore assault QQer because Logi IS my main suit. I would just like to feel for once , i cannot do everything my scouts / heavies/ Assault fits do with just 1 dropsuit. Im looking for diversity here, NOT Personal gain.
u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É
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Fire of Prometheus
DUST University
Ivy League
1476
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 02:57:00 -
[88] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Fire of Prometheus wrote:
If logis need to have all their equipment slots filled, then I can't use 3/4 my amarr logi sniper fits.
Then what am I supposed to do?
Thats the idea. Assaults and Scouts should be sniping. not logis :3 That logic contradicts with skill customization. The main thing that's driving Dust right now.
That was going to be my next point, +1 to you sir :)
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2276
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 02:57:00 -
[89] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:
But I like my fits and stuff....my logi ak0 is so incredibly powerful
It would be a pain to Re-allocate all of my sp, it's been used in such a precise way that if anything is changed it'll mess up at least half my fits
Fixed that for you bro.
AGAIN, if logis wont get a rebalance its fine by me, i use Logis myself. Just saying, Death of diversity right here...
u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2277
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 02:59:00 -
[90] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Fire of Prometheus wrote:
If logis need to have all their equipment slots filled, then I can't use 3/4 my amarr logi sniper fits.
Then what am I supposed to do?
Thats the idea. Assaults and Scouts should be sniping. not logis :3 That logic contradicts with skill customization. The main thing that's driving Dust right now. That was going to be my next point, +1 to you sir :)
It might, but The amount of slots/CPU-PG and ''assault oriented bonus'' for armor repair contradicts with BALANCE.
u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É
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|
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Fire of Prometheus
DUST University
Ivy League
1476
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 03:03:00 -
[91] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:It might, but The amount of slots/CPU-PG and ''assault oriented bonus'' for armor repair contradicts with BALANCE.
It does and it doesn't, when you think about it, who reps a logi? Surely not another logi because the other one is busy repping 2 other people.
But I can see what you mean, the advantage of the logis bonus is like 20 times better than the assault bonus (for the most part)
I still think that assaults need some sort of buff (nothing to drastic but something enough to make them just as viable as some logis)
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
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Cosgar
ParagonX
7441
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 03:12:00 -
[92] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Whut? Havnt you seen me around lately? I Run a 650 / Profile Dampned Amarr Logi with ASCR or a 900 HP With a LAser. The only times i use assault is while using my Imperial...
Im not complaining in a QQ , im asking to blaance it so every suit has their utility. as it is, they dont.
I want balance too, but this nerf everything mentality needs to stop. You said it earlier that Amarr don't really have a logistics suits. They're both assaults with different slot layouts and bonuses. Working as intened.
Quote: This is not true. My Amarr Assault has around 630 HP and my Logi 900 (This is at ADV level mind you). PLUS innate Armor regen. I dO feel the HP difference a lot.
See above
Quote:Logis might not be always EZ kill suit, but they SURE ARE EZ to stay alive suit....
Survivability > firepower. That's how it works. Assaults are assaulting, and logis are good at defending. The majority of my kills as a logi come from point defense.
Quote:THE FP now is a little UP but still usable. Does it need a slight buff? Sure. Does it need o be a 1HKO Dual wielded mass driver as it was ? NO.
And if logis get nerfed to uselessness and later down the road people say "logis need a buff," what then?
Quote:You'll be damned because you know its the best suit. You cant call me a sore assault QQer because Logi IS my main suit. I would just like to feel for once , i cannot do everything my scouts / heavies/ Assault fits do with just 1 dropsuit. Im looking for diversity here, NOT Personal gain.
I've been a Minmatar logi since Chrome and I converted from assault because I was bored with it. I had to take some time to weigh the options between Minmatar and Gallente logi after the Uprising 1.0 respec, but I chose Minmatar again because I trust in the rust. If I wanted the best suit, I would have picked CaLogi back then. The "do everything suit got neutered months ago. Everyone is still carrying pitchforks because they don't understand the concept of tradeoffs. I use both my Minmatar assault and logi. I like them both and recognize the strengths and weaknesses. I stick with the logi primarily because it's more beneficial to the people I squad with on the regular. We need more assaults like someone needs a hole in their head.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Fire of Prometheus
DUST University
Ivy League
1476
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 03:18:00 -
[93] - Quote
@Cosgar, well said +1
I have logi ak0 and went basic ck0 as my assault suit because I found my amarr logi lacking in the assault part, yes it hits like a tank but that's if the enemy is coming to me, otherwise I find it's less effective at assaulting.
The ck0 works better for hit and run/guerrilla tactics, were as the amarr logi is good at just head on assaults and defences.
Anyways that's my 2 isklets 
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4121
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 04:27:00 -
[94] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:What does nerfing a gun have to do with the stats of a suit? if it is nerfed it is nerf consistantly across the board it wont magicly make the logi worse unless they nerf it to a point where it takes a full mag+ to kill anyone but thats a bit of a over nerf by like a lot.
As far as i can tell cats point is that the logi suit is op because it is as like 90% as effective as a assualt suit at least for combat yet 3 to 4 times as effective at being a support because of superior hp and equipment slots while not having a weakness to justify how effective it is at its role.
Either the assualt needs a buff say bonus to raw dps as for a offencive suit it cant out shoot a suport suit or the logi needs some sort of nerf perhaps side arm only would be the best way to enforce the fact they are designed for support but that is possibly a little drastic but it is something i personally think would be a uniqueish addition to the game.
Pretty much what I'm trying to say.
Mind if I quote you in my thread?
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2285
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 04:42:00 -
[95] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:
It does and it doesn't, when you think about it, who reps a logi? Surely not another logi because the other one is busy repping 2 other people.
Who reps me? NO ONE. I deal with it. Plus you know VER Y well we are talking about assault logis here no true logibros.
Who reps Commandos?Heavies?assaults,scouts? NO ONE. So there is no excuse for such a gamebreaking bonus.
The problem is people NOT carrying Reps,Needles,etc...just to carry a A.Scanner and nanos for themselves and use the rest of the massive CPU/PG to tank...
Quote:But I can see what you mean, the advantage of the logis bonus is like 20 times better than the assault bonus (for the most part)
If only, the problem is that in a game where dropsuits have to spend 1 LOW slot in order to get armor repair, Logis Have MORE SLOTS AND can avoid using it.
Quote:I still think that assaults need some sort of buff (nothing to drastic but something enough to make them just as viable as some logis)
Well if you buff assaults and leave logis as they are i ASSURE you, 100% , You just killed heavy and Light frames...
:3
u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4121
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 04:44:00 -
[96] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Fire of Prometheus wrote:
It does and it doesn't, when you think about it, who reps a logi? Surely not another logi because the other one is busy repping 2 other people.
Who reps me? NO ONE. I deal with it. Plus you know VER Y well we are talking about assault logis here no true logibros. Who reps Commandos?Heavies?assaults,scouts? NO ONE. So there is no excuse for such a gamebreaking bonus. The problem is people NOT carrying Reps,Needles,etc...just to carry a A.Scanner and nanos for themselves and use the rest of the massive CPU/PG to tank...Quote:But I can see what you mean, the advantage of the logis bonus is like 20 times better than the assault bonus (for the most part) If only, the problem is that in a game where dropsuits have to spend 1 LOW slot in order to get armor repair, Logis Have MORE SLOTS AND can avoid using it.Quote:I still think that assaults need some sort of buff (nothing to drastic but something enough to make them just as viable as some logis) Well if you buff assaults and leave logis as they are i ASSURE you, 100% , You just killed heavy and Light frames... :3
I like this human
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4121
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 04:46:00 -
[97] - Quote
Assert Dominance wrote:Meow.
meow
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe PC
RISE of LEGION
896
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 04:52:00 -
[98] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote:Assaults don't need a second EQ slot, Scouts should have that way more than Assaults.
Heavy = 0
Assault = 1
Scout = 2
Logi = 3/4
That should be the EQ slot formula.
That is a darn good idea.
Now with more obscenities!
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4122
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 04:55:00 -
[99] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:Assaults don't need a second EQ slot, Scouts should have that way more than Assaults.
Heavy = 0
Assault = 1
Scout = 2
Logi = 3/4
That should be the EQ slot formula. That is a darn good idea.
This has been said since the dawn of time.
Or dawn of Uprising, whatever works for you
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
|
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2285
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 04:57:00 -
[100] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
I want balance too, but this nerf everything mentality needs to stop. You said it earlier that Amarr don't really have a logistics suits. They're both assaults with different slot layouts and bonuses. Working as intened.
ACtually , you sound like an assault logi scared that he will get a nerf, not as someone seeking for balance. Any Logi with some sense of balance knows the Logis need a tweak.The Amarr Logi might be the exception, But how come Gallente And Caldari Logis Outpreform their assault versions in every way possible?
Quote:Survivability > firepower. That's how it works. Assaults are assaulting, and logis are good at defending. The majority of my kills as a logi come from point defense.
hahahaha , no man please SRSLY.We are both adults you are not kidding anyone.
LOGIS are assaulting , Assaults follow. Logis are good at EVERYTHING not just defending, they do however , outpreform heavies in point defense,scouts in scouting and Assaults at...whatever assaults are supossed to do in this game...
Quote:And if logis get nerfed to uselessness and later down the road people say "logis need a buff," what then?
My options will not nerf the Logis to uselesness.I think they are pretty fair to be quite honest.Will make HOWEVER, MurderLogi fit harder.
Quote:I've been a Minmatar logi since Chrome and I converted from assault because I was bored with it. I had to take some time to weigh the options between Minmatar and Gallente logi after the Uprising 1.0 respec, but I chose Minmatar again because I trust in the rust.
Nice good for you. not relevant thou.Im not calling you FOTM chaser.
Quote: If I wanted the best suit, I would have picked CaLogi back then. The "do everything suit got neutered months ago. Everyone is still carrying pitchforks because they don't understand the concept of tradeoffs.
Whats the point in having Disadvantages if you have enough CPU-PG-Slots to fix all of them? do not come to me with those trade offs, there is a REASON why MOST GOOD clans have a HUGE Majority of Logi slayers.Its not for discussion here, its a FACT.
''I use both my Minmatar assault and logi.''
And i can bet with which one you do better.
''I like them both and recognize the strengths and weaknesses. I stick with the logi primarily because it's more beneficial to the people I squad with on the regular. We need more assaults like someone needs a hole in their head and I never see them complaining about OP logis.''
Look., Amarr assaults have their laser weaponry bonus that its the ONLY reason in the heavens above someone would go proto Amarr assault insteado of Logi.
But Going Proto Cal assault instead of Logi?
Gal As intead of Gal Logi?
Minma As intead of Minma Logi?
ONLY A MADMAN....
u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É
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Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1422
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 05:30:00 -
[101] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ) Cal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharingCal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharingGal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharingGal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharingMin Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharingMin Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharingAmarr Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharingAmarr Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharingAs you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed. The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it. The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front. The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead. The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead. However, they have an boost of HP. Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant. Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace. So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective. Balanced you say?
I'll just leave this here.
Again.
Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon!
We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
King of Uncertainty.
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2296
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 05:35:00 -
[102] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
I like this human
I feel highly comfortable around cats....
u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É
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Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1422
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 05:37:00 -
[103] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
I like this human
I feel highly comfortable around cats....
Shhh...
My cat is eating right now. I don't want to disturb him.
He eats chessboards for breakfast, lunch and dinner
Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon!
We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
King of Uncertainty.
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4122
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 05:37:00 -
[104] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Cat, I see where your numbers are coming from, but here's a more accurate depiction of a fit for Assaulting (i.e. KILL ZEM ALLZ) Cal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFRtOEswWGNWcl9ydWFQdHM1SklHUlE&usp=sharingCal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHZWTGNoZTkyTXhMb3BTMm1IdVJvX2c&usp=sharingGal Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhvcjJaUDV1Vy1pT1E3UHIxNDJhZGc&usp=sharingGal Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDh1STNtRTd1R1pvMlRUbzJsRUFMeHc&usp=sharingMin Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdHctYlcyZk9CbWVwcWUxRGZKMmpRTFE&usp=sharingMin Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdFp1QjA5NFJtdW05ZU11Umh0c0E1b0E&usp=sharingAmarr Salt- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdDhFLXlPT3JYY0hoNkt1SEVmazJ5cGc&usp=sharingAmarr Logi- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkNsTEpFxMxPdEZqV3MxSUprWWZrNDhaZFFTTGItQmc&usp=sharingAs you can see, for the majority of all the Combat fits (I went full tank here to showcase who the Logi abusers have been abusing the extra slots. Only the Amarr suits have equipment, and that's only a standard needle) of both suits, Logistics provide much more HP for lose of a Sidearm, and speed. The Amarr Logi loses .24 meters per second. Every 4 seconds its assault counterpart is one meter in front of it. The Caldari Logi loses .42 meters per second. Every 2 seconds its assault counterpart move one meter in front. The Minmatar Logi loses .8 meters per second. Roughly every second its assault counterparts move one meter ahead. The Gallente Logi loses .37 meters per second. Roughly every three seconds, its assault counterpart grows one meter ahead. However, they have an boost of HP. Caldari Logi gains 318 HP over its assault variant Gallente Logi gains 245 HP over its assault variant Minmatar logi gains 380 over its assault variant. Amarr logi gains 167 over its assault fit, while retaining the sidearm and Equipment slots While this may seem like a fair trade, considering that we can spawn 27K LAVs wherever the hell we want, the speed factor is made null. This tactic was, and still is by the select few, used by heavies to make up for their snail pace. So, for all intents and purposes, the Logistic Suits gain 300 HP over its assault brothers, while losing speed that is used to cross the difference between the LAV parking spot and the Objective. Balanced you say? I'll just leave this here. Again.
I like this human too
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
119
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 05:38:00 -
[105] - Quote
Speed and Stamina is about strafe speed and in dust strafe is about avoid bullets.
So YES it's really important. |
Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1427
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 05:43:00 -
[106] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Speed and Stamina is about strafe speed and in dust strafe is about avoid bullets.
So YES it's really important.
Considering you have a 1/3 HP lead, moving that margin slower won't really kill you.
And, scouts have the highest move speed in the game, you see them winning a gunfight lately?
Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon!
We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
King of Uncertainty.
|
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2299
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 05:43:00 -
[107] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Speed and Stamina is about strafe speed and in dust strafe is about avoid bullets.
So YES it's really important.
Extremely High Hit detection denies my 10.5 Sprint speed Minnie scout from dodging a GEK at 60 mts around a corner...
How much will your strafing save you from 2 AR spammers? LOL
So no... HP is more important than Stamina and speed. Plus Logis reach HIGH Hp values WHILE still being able to Be Fast and have enough stamina, so no...
Why people cant Just admit they are biased here!?
HAve you seen Tournament videos from DUST514? COUNT THE Godd**** LOGIS there. The only heavies are TANKERs, no SCOUTS ,no commandos, 1 or 2 assaults. The rest are MURDER-LOGIS.Out of 16 dudes, 13 are Logis so far as seeing in PC videos Full teams of logis.
THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS, dont deny it....
u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É
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Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1427
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 05:46:00 -
[108] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Speed and Stamina is about strafe speed and in dust strafe is about avoid bullets.
So YES it's really important. Extremely High Hit detection denies my 10.5 Sprint speed Minnie scout from dodging a GEK at 60 mts around a corner...
How much will your strafing save you from 2 AR spammers? LOL
So no... HP is more important than Stamina and speed. Plus Logis reach HIGH Hp values WHILE still being able to Be Fast and have enough stamina, so no...Why people cant Just admit they are biased here!? HAve you seen Tournament videos from DUST514? COUNT THE Godd**** LOGIS there. The only heavies are TANKERs, no SCOUTS ,no commandos, 1 or 2 assaults. The rest are MURDER-LOGIS.Out of 16 dudes, 13 are Logis so far as seeing in PC videos Full teams of logis. THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS, dont deny it....
For examples on the murderlogi, please turn to Meeko Fents wall of text on page 6
Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon!
We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
King of Uncertainty.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
7457
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 06:01:00 -
[109] - Quote
You know what, we all sit around here like armchair devs and **** never happens. This topic will die and everyone will forget about logis until the next QQ kitten says something and the process starts all over again. Even if by some stroke of ignorance you guys get your way, there's a lot of good players using logi suts and you're still going to die from a mellow fellow in yellow. What then? You still gonna cry when you die to a logi with an Ishukone, or a logi that barely has more HP than a Minmatar scout, or get blown up by RE's from a more cunning logi? What then?
I've said my peace for 6 months to this day. It's in CCP's hands now. I'm just glad none of you are part of that little 1% club that's supposed to represent us.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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NOAMIzzzzz
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
54
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 06:01:00 -
[110] - Quote
So this means that logis are op. I can relate to that and sorry logi bros i love yall but man yall are too opiness. |
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4124
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Posted - 2013.11.07 06:04:00 -
[111] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:You know what, we all sit around here like armchair devs and **** never happens. This topic will die and everyone will forget about logis until the next QQ kitten says something and the process starts all over again. Even if by some stroke of ignorance you guys get your way, there's a lot of good players using logi suts and you're still going to die from a mellow fellow in yellow. What then? You still gonna cry when you die to a logi with an Ishukone, or a logi that barely has more HP than a Minmatar scout, or get blown up by RE's from a more cunning logi? What then?
I've said my peace for 6 months to this day. It's in CCP's hands now. I'm just glad none of you are part of that little 1% club that's supposed to represent us.
I won't complain if a logi kills me if it doesn't have an advantage over my suit designed to slay.
You really have no argument here.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
1181
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Posted - 2013.11.07 06:30:00 -
[112] - Quote
I have both an assault slayer and a logi slayer.
they have their strengths and weaknesses slayer logi can be killed just as easily by a slayer assault. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4124
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Posted - 2013.11.07 06:37:00 -
[113] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:I have both an assault slayer and a logi slayer.
they have their strengths and weaknesses slayer logi can be killed just as easily by a slayer assault.
I got hit by a proto minnie assault in my gallogi. It tickled so I turned around and killed him.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
1182
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Posted - 2013.11.07 06:40:00 -
[114] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:calisk galern wrote:I have both an assault slayer and a logi slayer.
they have their strengths and weaknesses slayer logi can be killed just as easily by a slayer assault. I got hit by a proto minnie assault in my gallogi. It tickled so I turned around and killed him.
I kill and get killed by all form of logi and assault proto's, the best of the best are no different in either frame.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4124
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Posted - 2013.11.07 06:46:00 -
[115] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:Cat Merc wrote:calisk galern wrote:I have both an assault slayer and a logi slayer.
they have their strengths and weaknesses slayer logi can be killed just as easily by a slayer assault. I got hit by a proto minnie assault in my gallogi. It tickled so I turned around and killed him. I kill and get killed by all form of logi and assault proto's, the best of the best are no different in either frame.
Seriously though. That's EXACTLY the problem. Logi and Assault are more or less equal in direct combat. But logis are 3 or 4 times better at support.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
EoN.
97
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Posted - 2013.11.07 08:10:00 -
[116] - Quote
Nerf gal logi cpu |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4131
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Posted - 2013.11.07 09:07:00 -
[117] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Nerf gal logi cpu
That's fine, I'll switch the gauged hive with a k-2
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Sleepy Shadow
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
75
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Posted - 2013.11.07 11:44:00 -
[118] - Quote
A few weeks ago I spent my excess SP on an Amarr logi (got it to level 3) and it makes me depressed. I love my four-eyes, I really do, but for the life of me I cannot find a reason to use it anymore. The logi is just so much better than my assault.
I have the same health (or higher), better armour repair and I can carry a scanner and two different hives. It may be a little slower but IGÇÖm used to slower suits anyway (used Gallente assault since Uprising) and I am not one of those runny-jumpy-speedy-strafy people so the supposed drawbacks are really not an issue. I donGÇÖt even tank my suit to the max HP I could get out of it; I donGÇÖt see any reason to. With my scanner I can see most people within 100 metres of me (little to no surprise attacks), I have a compact hive to provide me with emergency health (also speedy ammo if need be) and a hive for ammo. The logi suit is self-sufficient and extremely flexible, and for that reason I think it needs balancing.
I still think removing the second equipment slot from assaults was not a good idea, IGÇÖd like to see it back (scouts too, donGÇÖt see why not heavies as well or give them two grenade slots). The assault bonus needs to be changed as it currently only benefits two assault suits. Damage would be nice, but I fear it would become OP immediately. Maybe new mods that would benefit the assaults most? For example GÇ£assault damage modifierGÇ¥ that would increase damage on main and sidearm simultaneously (only Amarr logi being problematic with this). I donGÇÖt know, I'm too tired at the moment to think of a great solution that would please everyone.
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Creedair Talor
NECROM0NGERS
23
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Posted - 2013.11.07 11:55:00 -
[119] - Quote
I still think a solution would be to make them sidearm only and give them a 75/75 tank boost. Six kin subs are nasty up close and assault subs can kill people at 40m. It would make them nasty up close but reliant on squads for range similar to HMG heavies.
It would take the possibility to be such a effective killer at range compared to assault that need cover where they can not recharge as well as logi in comparisson.
Assault would not be win all but it would make the logi heavy pair tougher in cqc but weaker to lrc. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4139
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 16:38:00 -
[120] - Quote
Creedair Talor wrote:I still think a solution would be to make them sidearm only and give them a 75/75 tank boost. Six kin subs are nasty up close and assault subs can kill people at 40m. It would make them nasty up close but reliant on squads for range similar to HMG heavies.
It would take the possibility to be such a effective killer at range compared to assault that need cover where they can not recharge as well as logi in comparisson.
Assault would not be win all but it would make the logi heavy pair tougher in cqc but weaker to lrc.
Wait but isn't the AR still better upclose?
So basically what you're saying is, Assaults are better in combat everywhere in terms of DPS but logis get a 150 HP boost?
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Evicer
THE HECATONCHIRES
42
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Posted - 2013.11.08 03:46:00 -
[121] - Quote
Amarr proto logi 30 million sp ..... cost me 1.4 mill for 10 suits. A person can make that even more ISK expensive.
SO they nerf the Logi. I submit a ticket get a respec and now Im specialized in 2 roles.We'll say heavy and assault with proto AV.
Its the sp of the player.You cant stop that at all.You can cry nerf on everything but the fact remains that I or someone else has that much sp and there for is proficient in a great many things.
Logi dual roles for the cost of duel sp
Closed Beta Tester: Survivor of Infantry lock on swarms,map glitches,Large missile SIgarus spawn camps,and PS3 crashes.
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RedBleach LeSanglant
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
459
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Posted - 2013.11.11 07:51:00 -
[122] - Quote
To Many, But not to All:
20 of these threads a day and they still waste my time in arguments that have been going on since the beginning. I've come to terms that we will never agree. Logis are great other classes suck, is that what you want to hear? You are right of course, the augmented processes for growing logi clones is quite involved.
(And this is all true according to EVE lore... that I've just made up)
Generally the whole cloning process just spits out fat ones, skinny ones, and angry jocks to be handed a weapon and die on the battlefield. To the logis they give the brains, the best suits, the bonuses, and for those that want the upgraded models even better skin coloring, muscle tone, and working organs to enjoy the finer things of life during their short time of activation. That the brutes of the battle class have finally noticed is surprising - i guess we've never given them quite the amount of attention that they needed. They can be as petulant as undisciplined children sometimes when they don't get their way.
But no matter, the most interesting part is that these calloused Neanderthals would rather have logis sink to their level rather than demand that their classes also rise to the calling of greatness and nobility. No, they would rather that these qualities be stripped from the class so that I too might wallow in their filthy weakness.
Do they demand more Module Slots?! No
Do they desire better class bonuses?! No
Do they desire greater racial bonuses?! No
But like the dog that's jealous of the owner's fine meal he seeks to take it or hide it rather than merely ask, nay BEG, for better food. It's not their fault. They have neither the genes nor the advanced dexterity to type, much less speak, about their wants to their task masters. They would rather have us all swimming in the mud like serfs than eating at the table like kings.
Pick your side. Nerfs or Buffs.
Get everyone to Live in dropsuit squalor or fight like kings in better class dropsuits. Your choice.
May you be a better man for thinking it through.
Sarcasm is the healing balm for a festering soul. |
Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1507
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 03:13:00 -
[123] - Quote
RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:To Many, But not to All:
20 of these threads a day and they still waste my time in arguments that have been going on since the beginning. I've come to terms that we will never agree. Logis are great other classes suck, is that what you want to hear? You are right of course, the augmented processes for growing logi clones is quite involved.
(And this is all true according to EVE lore... that I've just made up)
Generally the whole cloning process just spits out fat ones, skinny ones, and angry jocks to be handed a weapon and die on the battlefield. To the logis they give the brains, the best suits, the bonuses, and for those that want the upgraded models even better skin coloring, muscle tone, and working organs to enjoy the finer things of life during their short time of activation. That the brutes of the battle class have finally noticed is surprising - i guess we've never given them quite the amount of attention that they needed. They can be as petulant as undisciplined children sometimes when they don't get their way.
But no matter, the most interesting part is that these calloused Neanderthals would rather have logis sink to their level rather than demand that their classes also rise to the calling of greatness and nobility. No, they would rather that these qualities be stripped from the class so that I too might wallow in their filthy weakness.
Do they demand more Module Slots?! No
Do they desire better class bonuses?! No
Do they desire greater racial bonuses?! No
But like the dog that's jealous of the owner's fine meal he seeks to take it or hide it rather than merely ask, nay BEG, for better food. It's not their fault. They have neither the genes nor the advanced dexterity to type, much less speak, about their wants to their task masters. They would rather have us all swimming in the mud like serfs than eating at the table like kings.
Pick your side. Nerfs or Buffs.
Get everyone to Live in dropsuit squalor or fight like kings in better class dropsuits. Your choice.
May you be a better man for thinking it through.
Sarcasm is the healing balm for a festering soul.
If we buff everything else up to an OP items standards, then that masks the originally planned balance and TTK.
If we buffed every gun up to the level of TAR, what do you think would be wrong?
If we buffed every gun up to the level of the flay what do you think would be wrong?
If we buffed every suit up to the level of the CalLogi, what do you think would be wrong?
Its the one outlier among the med frames. If you throw it out, the scale of HP between suits is much more reasonable, and balance is a bit better with heavies having their HP range far from that of a med frame can reach.
Buffing everything up to an OP item isn't how balance works.
For the State!
For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
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biGRAPE
Salad Bowl Limted
The Umbra Combine
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 04:03:00 -
[124] - Quote
I kill Proto with my militia ar I don't have a problem with proto wearing care bears |
RedBleach LeSanglant
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
471
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 04:44:00 -
[125] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:
If we buff everything else up to an OP items standards, then that masks the originally planned balance and TTK.
If we buffed every gun up to the level of TAR, what do you think would be wrong?
If we buffed every gun up to the level of the flay what do you think would be wrong?
If we buffed every suit up to the level of the CalLogi, what do you think would be wrong?
Its the one outlier among the med frames. If you throw it out, the scale of HP between suits is much more reasonable, and balance is a bit better with heavies having their HP range far from that of a med frame can reach.
Buffing everything up to an OP item isn't how balance works.
Here you are trying to redirect the my comment - the TAR and Flaylock are not an issue as the community at large recognized the imbalance. Buffing them would have lead to shorter TTK and we would be speaking to that now instead. Also, to buff everything isn't actually a way to find balance, but perhaps you are speaking to buffing just a few things - yeah, that does work - like the dropsuits, weapons balances in the past, recent buff to heavies, and equipment, etc. Try to keep focused here.
As far as i have seen the originally planned balance fell away long ago, while it is desired it can no longer be framed as we have seen it. CCP knows. They have meetings about the original vision of the game and what it looks like now. Remember EVE had many plans that were changed along the way because it made a better game overall (watch the EVE keynote and you'll get it). Right now the Logi suits are great (please reread original post), but the others lack in skills, class, and flexibility... but they got the logi right.
Now it is time to make the other suits also perform at their best and bring more than just face burning to the game. The issue is with the Flexibility of the logi that comes with the CPU/PG and module slots and class/race skills of the Logistics class. The arguments are about how to give the other suits flexibility also. So the choices revolve around two view points:
Make everything suck (reduce logis to the current vanilla and unbalanced dropsuits that we have now) or make all suits awesome (raise them to a balanced level).
What you seem to be saying is that if we used your solution to get rid of the logi suits altogether - your second to last sentence - that would solve the suit imbalances. That is wrong. Speak to each of the many people that use the other dropsuits and ask them if they think their suit is balanced. That the skills, the stats, the modules, the racial bonuses, etc. are all good and that nothing else needs changed. You know the reply that you will get - no, they are not balanced (for those who couldn't guess). So, your solution to remove the logi suits does not solve the imbalance problem.
If you can offer something that is constructive on how to do that then do so; like an idea about skill trees or new dropsuit values that you believe would even everything out. To merely reference past changes only shows us that more change is on the way. Would you like it to be balanced the first time or a year of suck before the community sees its mistake and asks for better suits? |
Oswald Rehnquist
548
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 04:51:00 -
[126] - Quote
RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:
Now it is time to make the other suits also perform at their best and bring more than just face burning to the game. The issue is with the Flexibility of the logi that comes with the CPU/PG and module slots and class/race skills of the Logistics class. The arguments are about how to give the other suits flexibility also. So the choices revolve around two view points:
I"m not throwing too much into the logi vs salt debate, nor am I hear to nerf any slaying potential, but I personally think flexibility is a bad trait to give to a suit because any specialization will then have to come from exclusive content like heavy weapons limited to sentinels to give any real definition to the more niche roles out there.
Otherwise the most open slotted suit is thy best suit if flexibility going to be the main feature that will be able to take advantage of any role's new content to significant degree.
Below 28 dB
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Kazeno Rannaa
BIG BAD W0LVES
308
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 01:00:00 -
[127] - Quote
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote:Cat Merc wrote:What most people fail to realize that when people say "logi is OP", they don't mean that logi is simply a better fighter.
It's that they're pretty much the same as the assault (with a few swaps, like less speed but more eHP) BUT get 3-4 equipment slots.
When people stack plates and extenders in these threads to show that logis aren't that far ahead eHP wise, they fail to realize that stacking plates and extenders is not the best of suits.
Here are my logi and assault suits, each are designed to push it to the maximum, I have been tweaking my suits for ages and these are the optimal one's I found:
Note: I have CPU/PG skills maxed, I could not push this suit further.
Gallente Assault:
High:
Complex damage mod
Complex shield extender
Complex damage mod
Low:
Basic plate
Basic plate
Enhanced armor rep
Enhanced armor rep
Weapons:
GEK 38 Assault rifle
Syndicate SMG
Grenade:
M1 Locus
Equipment:
Allotek Nanohive
Armor: 449
Shield: 217
Combined: 666 (huehuehue)
Damage bonus (skills not included): 20%
Regen rate: 7.5hp/s
Movement speed: 4.81
Sprint speed: 7.08
Stamina: 157.50
Stamina regen: 15.75
Not bad right?
Now let's look at the Gallente logi:
High:
Complex damage mod
Complex damage mod
Complex shield extender
Low:
Enhanced ferroscale plate
Basic plate
Basic plate
Basic plate
Enhanced Cardiac regulator
Weapon:
Duvolle Assault Rifle
Grenade:
M1 Locus
Equipment:
Wiyrkomi Triage hives
Wiyrkomi Triage hives
A-86 active scanner
Ishukone Gauged hive
Shield: 181
Armor: 560
Combined: 741
Damage bonus (skills not included): 25% (I could fit a duvolle on my logi, which has +5% damage over a gek)
Regen rate: 5hp/s (Inherent logi regen)
Movement speed: 4.54 m/s
Sprint speed: 6.67m/s
Stamina: 198.19
Stamina regen: 22.89
Conclusion:
Seems pretty legit right?
The logi has more damage, more eHP, more stamina and more stamina regen for the price of speed and a sidearm right?
Oh wait, but that would only be legit if both were combat focused suits, I.E both have one equipment.
But the logi has 4 equipment slots, making it far far more verastile and just a better deal overall.
Especially with the 6x triage hives I fit on my logi, I am ******* invincible inside one of those.
Low on health?
Plop a triage hive, return to battle faster than shields can recharge.
I also couldn't fit a scanner on my assault, making me much more blind.
Also, I could fit a kin cat instead of a regulator to be even faster than my assault, but I prefer the sustainability that regulators provide.
How I think this should be solved:
Two problems that I see here:
1. Logis get 5hp/s on armor inherent, which allows me to give up on a armor rep and put on an extra plate, increasing the eHP gap further. HOWEVER CCP said they will change it once they have the infastracture to do it (something about the code doesn't allow them to put on a more logi orientated bonus)
2. The CPU/PG gap is just damn too high.
Could solve it by either reducing the CPU/PG on logis, forcing them to decide on either being a combat suit or a logi suit, not both, OR increasing the CPU/PG on the assault. (Should also buff the scout CPU/PG and heavy CPU/PG if this is done, just to be fair) lets not forget scouts! the minmatar scout mk.0 has a measly 230 cpu.
Your argumentation based upon a purely statistically focused understanding of the suits doesnGÇÖt give an accurate picture. The PG and CPU of a Logi is supposed to be higher than an assault. To compare the to together is ludicrous.
The inherent armor reaping bonus goes to greater survivability of the logi as they are being pelted on the from lines. Whihc in my mind this makes sense. To loose that, would incite a community wide scream for a respect, which is already bad enough with the vehicle changes that are inbound.
HTFU and adapt. And as for the comparison, I noticed that you only did it with one race. This being said, the generalization from on specific comparison goes to delude those reading this thread. I would recommend a more comprehensive comparative analysis before pushing further with this thread.
I for one know that my Amarr logi is at a distinct disadvantage when compared to the greater majority of other suits, but I still seem able to survive in the field. |
rebecca watson
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
70
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 05:49:00 -
[128] - Quote
I can't believe that only one person: Evicer
THE HECATONCHIRES [page 4 in the thread] pointed out that Cat Merc chose the logi with the reduction to PG/CPU to make his comparison. Hence all the proto equipment in the fit. Other logi's have to make more choices in fitting for either their logi or slayer roles.
With that said, Cat is still generally making a good point.
Ive waited awhile to weigh in on this, but i've heard many sides and here's the best i've heard from this thread and the community. I've played logi- since the day. Mk0. I love it. I winge at it, but logi's need a change.
I used to think that assaults needed a buff, so that my precious logi wouldnt be changed, but I don't play assault, and I can't speak for those players. I do however, think assaults should have a distinct advantage in combat situations.
anyway, onto the logi
CHANGES:
1. Require all equip slots filled. You can still slap a lvl 1 needle, nanohive and rep on there and get good fits. Sorry.
2. We can let go of the armor rep bonus across the board, and relegate it to one racial suit only. The logic that a logi "has no one else to rep him" is negated by the fact that on average, logi's have more low slots, and the opportunity to fit local armor reps. I maxed out armor repair on my Minnie logi and all my suits rep faster than my shields. that's wack.
A BIG TALL GLASS OF NOPE:
We can't do sidearm only with the current dropsuit selection. There will be another massive respec push, and there is not a wide-enough selection of sidearms currently to make that situation feasible. Someone suggested the Six Kin SMG- ok, so every logi now has to have one required?
-It's a good thing that logi's can be flexible- there are many many different roles to be filled by the varity of equipment available in DUST 514.
Combat logi's are a legit thing at high-level play, as well as casual. There are better ways to balance logi's other than gimping the weapon selection.
Remember, that's already done with the lack of sidearm 
Misc:
Although the difference in HP is significant, good players know that movement and strafe speed is too.
I want this difference to be pronounced between assault and logi players. I think that with higher slot and pg/cpu numbers on logi's they still have the choice of getting good speed with brute force, but should pay a price in their fittings.
Lastly: +1
[Justin Tymes]
Heavy = 0
Assault = 1
Scout = 2
Logi = 3/4 |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4382
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 07:13:00 -
[129] - Quote
rebecca watson wrote:I can't believe that only one person: Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES [page 4 in the thread] pointed out that Cat Merc chose the logi with the reduction to PG/CPU to make his comparison. Hence all the proto equipment in the fit. Other logi's have to make more choices in fitting for either their logi or slayer roles. With that said, Cat is still generally making a good point. Ive waited awhile to weigh in on this, but i've heard many sides and here's the best i've heard from this thread and the community. I've played logi- since the day. Mk0. I love it. I winge at it, but logi's need a change. I used to think that assaults needed a buff, so that my precious logi wouldnt be changed, but I don't play assault, and I can't speak for those players. I do however, think assaults should have a distinct advantage in combat situations. anyway, onto the logi CHANGES: 1. Require all equip slots filled. You can still slap a lvl 1 needle, nanohive and rep on there and get good fits. Sorry. 2. We can let go of the armor rep bonus across the board, and relegate it to one racial suit only. The logic that a logi "has no one else to rep him" is negated by the fact that on average, logi's have more low slots, and the opportunity to fit local armor reps. I maxed out armor repair on my Minnie logi and all my suits rep faster than my shields. that's wack. A BIG TALL GLASS OF NOPE: We can't do sidearm only with the current dropsuit selection. There will be another massive respec push, and there is not a wide-enough selection of sidearms currently to make that situation feasible. Someone suggested the Six Kin SMG- ok, so every logi now has to have one required? -It's a good thing that logi's can be flexible- there are many many different roles to be filled by the varity of equipment available in DUST 514. Combat logi's are a legit thing at high-level play, as well as casual. There are better ways to balance logi's other than gimping the weapon selection. Remember, that's already done with the lack of sidearm Misc: Although the difference in HP is significant, good players know that movement and strafe speed is too. I want this difference to be pronounced between assault and logi players. I think that with higher slot and pg/cpu numbers on logi's they still have the choice of getting good speed with brute force, but should pay a price in their fittings. Lastly: +1 [Justin Tymes] Heavy = 0 Assault = 1 Scout = 2 Logi = 3/4
Gal logi got equipment CPU/PG reductions yes, but the Gal Ass got weapon CPU/PG reductions. Soooo
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4341
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Posted - 2013.12.04 22:51:00 -
[130] - Quote
meow
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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