DUST Search - Why proto logis are a problem

KING CHECKMATE wrote:

Amarr Logi A/1 series is THE BEST MED FRAME at ADV level.Sh*t. The BEST suit at ADV level.
Think of it, 6 low /high slots, 3 eq slots, sidearm , Light weapon,grenade slot. It does EVERYTHING,from tanking up to 900 HP, to be profile dampned with 650 HP,to be a true logi, etc...
(mi personal favourite Logi)

At proto level, nothing beats Caldari and Gallente Logis.

-Logis need their Repair Bonus CHANGED to the Gal Logi default bonus:
GÖª All logis get 5% reduction in equipment CPU/PG cost.

OR

-Logis need to have the SAME amound of high / low slots as Assaults. Leave CPU and PG as they are since they will need them for good equipment.

At proto:
Gÿ+ Cal Logi: 4 highs 3 lows 3 equipment slots
Gÿ+ Gal Logis: 3 Highs 4 Lows 4 Equipment slots
Gÿ+ Minmatar Logis : 4 Highs 3 Lows 4 Equipment slots
Gÿ+ Amarr Logis : 3 Highs 3 Lows 3 Equipment slots + Sidearm (@ adv level 3 Highs and 2 Lows {So there is a point going into Proto})

BOTH these options come with a Side dish of:

-Logis need to have all equipment slots full in order to be a valid Fitting.

BALANCE

I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"


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Cosgar ParagonX 7408	Posted - 2013.11.06 21:05:00 - [1] - Quote 1.7 hits, Ion Pistol, Magsec SMG, Rail Rifle, and some kind of plasma grenade comes out. Which suit is better then? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7408	Posted - 2013.11.06 21:18:00 - [2] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: 1.7 hits, Ion Pistol, Magsec SMG, Rail Rifle, and some kind of plasma grenade comes out. Which suit is better then? Logi? They said nothing about an Ion Pistol, magsec SMG or a plasma grenade. What we know for sure is the combat rifle, and rail rifle. Can you link for me where you got that? (Ion pistol, magsec SMG and plasma grenade) Meant to have a "what if" in there. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7411	Posted - 2013.11.06 21:25:00 - [3] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: 1.7 hits, Ion Pistol, Magsec SMG, Rail Rifle, and some kind of plasma grenade comes out. Which suit is better then? Logi? They said nothing about an Ion Pistol, magsec SMG or a plasma grenade. What we know for sure is the combat rifle, and rail rifle. Can you link for me where you got that? (Ion pistol, magsec SMG and plasma grenade) Meant to have a "what if" in there. Ah, that makes more sense. Anyway, unless these sidearms are going to be OP, I don't see how that is an advanatage over logis. I saw a logi with a flaylock lol All of those weapons are hybrid. Therefore the GalAss would be able to fit better weapons. Logi might have the tank, but the assault would have better gank. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7412	Posted - 2013.11.06 21:45:00 - [4] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Not to any significant extent. I am using a standard SMG and yet I am far, far from being able to fit a duvolle. And minmatar weapons have the lowest CPU/PG in the game. So do 1+1 and you will see it won't make a difference. Sounds like you just don't want to accept the difference. Now I agree that those differences are pretty narrow, but the idea was: Assault = Weapon/offense based bonuses, more firepower, (with sidearms) better base stats, faster regen, not as tanky. Logi = Support/Non-Combat based bonuses, less firepower, more customizable, worst base stats, slow regen, more tanky. Both suits have their advantages and disadvantages, but I agree the GaLogi seems better on paper since it can tank more. The assault kind of lacks compared to the others since you don't really have the speed since it armor tanks. It's still a solid suit, but the problem is more on the assault side than the logi side. I'd rather see CCP adjust assault bonuses before they think of touching logistics. Unless you like that shield bonus on an armor suit that is... Hell, give give the assaults 25% to their base shield recharge and replace the bonus with something more useful like a fitting reduction to weapons (including grenades) and weapon mods. Imagine that stacking with the Gallente assault's bonus, you could probably fit a Duvolle, Ishukone, and M-1 locus grenades at the same time. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7412	Posted - 2013.11.06 22:01:00 - [5] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Would love that honestly. But less firepower part just isn't true IMHO. When you have a duvolle with 2x complex damage mods and a 15% proficiency bonus, you just melt things anyway. I only use a sidearm when I go against 3-4 people at the same time within the same room (no time to reload). And even then I only need to finish off the fourth guy since my duvolle already wrecked him. Duvolle with 2x CLDMs and prof 5 can melt anything without prejudice from who ever his on the pleasure end of the gun. Doesn't mean the suit that can fit it is OP. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7412	Posted - 2013.11.06 22:06:00 - [6] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: That's my point, when you use something like that a sidearm isn't nearly as useful, making the firepower difference between a logi and assault nearly non existant. Alright, I'm off to sleep, meow. So, a gun that's so powerful that you don't even need a sidearm isn't OP, but a suit that doesn't have a sidearm uses it suddenly is? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7413	Posted - 2013.11.06 22:34:00 - [7] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: That's my point, when you use something like that a sidearm isn't nearly as useful, making the firepower difference between a logi and assault nearly non existant. Alright, I'm off to sleep, meow. So, a gun that's so powerful that you don't even need a sidearm isn't OP, but a suit that doesn't have a sidearm uses it suddenly is? So, youtube didn't let me sleep, so I will stay here for a few more minutes. I don't see your logic. If they both have the same firepower (Since we put the sidearm out of the equation), but one has higher eHP, higher stamina and regen, for a lower speed, but 4 equipment.... The upsides keep stacking up for the logi :\ Nerf the damn Duvolle. There, I said it. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7428	Posted - 2013.11.07 00:36:00 - [8] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Logis are and will outrole assaults. If ccp wont do anything, the only way is to spec into logi. I play as assault and logi and i do more kills and support and wp with logi. Also, logis can run longer and regen faster as Cats says. Its damn annyoing that logis do both jobs, without weaknes and looses. Logi actually have less stamina than assaults. I had to dump SP into complex cardiac regulators just so I can keep up with my squad. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7430	Posted - 2013.11.07 00:51:00 - [9] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Mejt0 wrote: Logis are and will outrole assaults. If ccp wont do anything, the only way is to spec into logi. I play as assault and logi and i do more kills and support and wp with logi. Also, logis can run longer and regen faster as Cats says. Its damn annyoing that logis do both jobs, without weaknes and looses. Logi actually have less stamina than assaults. I had to dump SP into complex cardiac regulators just so I can keep up with my squad. You can easly put kin cat etc. So you have more stamina. Assaults cant bec they will lose 1 slot and they'll be even easier to kill. And that's how things get balanced out. Logi base stats lower compared medium suit baseline, that you have to decide on how to fit your suit. More slots may look like OP on paper, but every time you fill a slot with something, you're giving something else up. Want to brick tank? You're going to be slow as molasses. Want some speed and stamina? Not going to have a lot of armor. Want to put on that shield energizer? Welp, that means you got one less shield slot. A logi suit can't be better than an assault because it lacks the base stats. Sure, you can be tanky, fast, invisible to scanners, or have high DPS, but not all at the same time. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7437	Posted - 2013.11.07 02:40:00 - [10] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Amarr Logi A/1 series is THE BEST MED FRAME at ADV level.Sht. The BEST suit at ADV level. Think of it, 6 low /high slots, 3 eq slots, sidearm , Light weapon,grenade slot. It does EVERYTHING,from tanking up to 900 HP, to be profile dampned with 650 HP,to be a true logi, etc... (mi personal favourite Logi) At proto level, nothing beats Caldari and Gallente Logis.* -Logis need their Repair Bonus CHANGED to the Gal Logi default bonus: GÖª All logis get 5% reduction in equipment CPU/PG cost. OR -Logis need to have the SAME amound of high / low slots as Assaults. Leave CPU and PG as they are since they will need them for good equipment. At proto: Gÿ+ Cal Logi: 4 highs 3 lows 3 equipment slots Gÿ+ Gal Logis: 3 Highs 4 Lows 4 Equipment slots Gÿ+ Minmatar Logis : 4 Highs 3 Lows 4 Equipment slots Gÿ+ Amarr Logis : 3 Highs 3 Lows 3 Equipment slots + Sidearm (@ adv level 3 Highs and 2 Lows {So there is a point going into Proto}) BOTH these options come with a Side dish of: -Logis need to have all equipment slots full in order to be a valid Fitting. BALANCE That's your balance. All I keep seeing on here is "Mom! He has more HP than me!" FFS we all die just about the same with how screwed up this game is anyway when most weapons' DPS damn near matches or surpasses an average suit's EHP. Give it a rest. I'm sick of getting hate mail for using my "noob suit" from some butthurt punk that thought logi = easy kill. (I run ADV fittings with ~550EHP and ADV weapons) Tossing around the nerf bat freely while core gameplay is borked is what ruined the flaylock pistol. And I'll be damned if the logistics is going to wind up like that. Give it a rest. The problem is on the assault's side more than anything but unlike scouts and heavies that want buffs, assaults have to drag everything down. This community makes me sick. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Cosgar ParagonX 7441	Posted - 2013.11.07 03:12:00 - [11] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Whut? Havnt you seen me around lately? I Run a 650 / Profile Dampned Amarr Logi with ASCR or a 900 HP With a LAser. The only times i use assault is while using my Imperial... Im not complaining in a QQ , im asking to blaance it so every suit has their utility. as it is, they dont. I want balance too, but this nerf everything mentality needs to stop. You said it earlier that Amarr don't really have a logistics suits. They're both assaults with different slot layouts and bonuses. Working as intened. Quote: This is not true. My Amarr Assault has around 630 HP and my Logi 900 (This is at ADV level mind you). PLUS innate Armor regen. I dO feel the HP difference a lot. See above Quote: Logis might not be always EZ kill suit, but they SURE ARE EZ to stay alive suit.... Survivability > firepower. That's how it works. Assaults are assaulting, and logis are good at defending. The majority of my kills as a logi come from point defense. Quote: THE FP now is a little UP but still usable. Does it need a slight buff? Sure. Does it need o be a 1HKO Dual wielded mass driver as it was ? NO. And if logis get nerfed to uselessness and later down the road people say "logis need a buff," what then? Quote: You'll be damned because you know its the best suit. You cant call me a sore assault QQer because Logi IS my main suit. I would just like to feel for once , i cannot do everything my scouts / heavies/ Assault fits do with just 1 dropsuit. Im looking for diversity here, NOT Personal gain. I've been a Minmatar logi since Chrome and I converted from assault because I was bored with it. I had to take some time to weigh the options between Minmatar and Gallente logi after the Uprising 1.0 respec, but I chose Minmatar again because I trust in the rust. If I wanted the best suit, I would have picked CaLogi back then. The "do everything suit got neutered months ago. Everyone is still carrying pitchforks because they don't understand the concept of tradeoffs. I use both my Minmatar assault and logi. I like them both and recognize the strengths and weaknesses. I stick with the logi primarily because it's more beneficial to the people I squad with on the regular. We need more assaults like someone needs a hole in their head. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7457	Posted - 2013.11.07 06:01:00 - [12] - Quote You know what, we all sit around here like armchair devs and **** never happens. This topic will die and everyone will forget about logis until the next QQ kitten says something and the process starts all over again. Even if by some stroke of ignorance you guys get your way, there's a lot of good players using logi suts and you're still going to die from a mellow fellow in yellow. What then? You still gonna cry when you die to a logi with an Ishukone, or a logi that barely has more HP than a Minmatar scout, or get blown up by RE's from a more cunning logi? What then? I've said my peace for 6 months to this day. It's in CCP's hands now. I'm just glad none of you are part of that little 1% club that's supposed to represent us. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"