You feel the sniper is weak or not a good player or they can kill you without meeting you "face to face" or "fighting like a man," most of all a good sniper renders you defenseless. You're helpless and you cant even shoot back. Well needless to say this is why long range rifle where created in the first place, to kill the enemy without the enemy being able to retaliate.

A good sniper is a force multiplier and can deny an enemy access to certain areas or comfort on the battlefield. Much of these things can be said about tanks or mass divers or a good forge gunner and now a group of assault rifles. Yet none of these roles have had drastic map changes to limit their capabilities.

If this role on the battlefield is so insignificant or so unfair than it shouldn't be a part of the game. Yet, it is and instead of letting the sniper do what a sniper should be capable of doing you slowly render them incapable of helping their team. With most of the fight happening within closed areas a sniper is forced to take to the ground meters behind their team mates and be subject to the amount of firepower they are. This defeats the purpose of the long range rifle.

Why not just make a very powerful mid range weapon with a low rate of fire? The sniper shouldn't be able to pick of hackers on objectives, I agree, this is incredibly unfair considering the time it takes the average player to hack one objective. Although closing in the objective behind walls within a building inside of a compound has done way more than prevented snipers from camping objectives. It has prevented snipers from helping their team to maneuver around the battlefield. It has prevented the sniper from being able to find places in maps where a sniper should be because they just aren't there anymore.

If these are the types of maps we can look forward to then the sniper rifles should be gone. It is hated by many and for good reason they don't like the fact that someone with enough skill and a powerful weapon can sit back and pull the trigger once without even batting and eye and kill them. To these people I say.. adapt.

With all of the changes made to the sniper class adapting is no longer worth the outcome, you can no longer function as a combat sniper within this game anymore. You are now a ground pounder like the rest. With every game comes new challenges and with those new challenges is finding ways within your own experience and talent to defeat the other players. That includes snipers, which now can no longer function. If you can't find a way to defeat a snipers attack then go play candy crush or something this is a war game and with it comes the tools of war. Fix the maps or Nix the class.

they just arnt built so that the only counter is another sniper.

before you could just sit up on an unreachable tower and be invulnerable to everything but other snipers.

now you actually have to think about where you are and move with the battle.



think of it as taking the training wheels off.

You feel the sniper is weak or not a good player or they can kill you without meeting you "face to face" or "fighting like a man," most of all a good sniper renders you defenseless. You're helpless and you cant even shoot back. Well needless to say this is why long range rifle where created in the first place, to kill the enemy without the enemy being able to retaliate. A good sniper is a force multiplier and can deny an enemy access to certain areas or comfort on the battlefield. Much of these things can be said about tanks or mass divers or a good forge gunner and now a group of assault rifles. Yet none of these roles have had drastic map changes to limit their capabilities. If this role on the battlefield is so insignificant or so unfair than it shouldn't be a part of the game. Yet, it is and instead of letting the sniper do what a sniper should be capable of doing you slowly render them incapable of helping their team. With most of the fight happening within closed areas a sniper is forced to take to the ground meters behind their team mates and be subject to the amount of firepower they are. This defeats the purpose of the long range rifle. Why not just make a very powerful mid range weapon with a low rate of fire? The sniper shouldn't be able to pick of hackers on objectives, I agree, this is incredibly unfair considering the time it takes the average player to hack one objective. Although closing in the objective behind walls within a building inside of a compound has done way more than prevented snipers from camping objectives. It has prevented snipers from helping their team to maneuver around the battlefield. It has prevented the sniper from being able to find places in maps where a sniper should be because they just aren't there anymore. If these are the types of maps we can look forward to then the sniper rifles should be gone. It is hated by many and for good reason they don't like the fact that someone with enough skill and a powerful weapon can sit back and pull the trigger once without even batting and eye and kill them. To these people I say.. adapt. With all of the changes made to the sniper class adapting is no longer worth the outcome, you can no longer function as a combat sniper within this game anymore. You are now a ground pounder like the rest. With every game comes new challenges and with those new challenges is finding ways within your own experience and talent to defeat the other players. That includes snipers, which now can no longer function. If you can't find a way to defeat a snipers attack then go play candy crush or something this is a war game and with it comes the tools of war. Fix the maps or Nix the class.

Towers gone, fine we could find new reachable places. Only counter is another sniper... well if that wasn't the case then your not a sniper... if you don't like the fact that you can't kill snipers without another sniper then lets just get rid of them.

Towers gone...

Nooo... we have new towers instead

If only i could deploy a box to stand on...

I know i must be a terrible sniper, i am a camper, I am everything you hate about the sniper and it's all my fault. I f you don't like what a sniper does than get rid of it but don't give us what we need then set us up for failure.

If only i could deploy a box to stand on...

If only i could deploy a box to stand on...

Its put the risk into sniping, you can still go into the compound you know, the multi level design has some real nice spots for a sniper, the only difference is can't sit around too long.

A good example actually is XCOM enemy unknown, you get a stativ sniper who potshots from other side of the map, no risk deadly effecient, easy peasy!! However there was also a snapshot sniper who moves with the team, you could move and shoot on the same turn, very useful, but often overlooked because of the risk!!

k think CCP want you to be a snapshot, constantly moving defending your spot, helping your team! Besides there are still open space and chokepoints at the entrance you can harass! ,

I'm still finding these spots and moving around, yet sniping isn't suppose to have that kind of risk. If a sniper wanted that amount of risk they would carry another weapon to counter it..... am i the only one understanding this?

To the contrary you seem to be the only one not understanding this, risk = reward, sniping from nest = ~0 risk, therefore ~0 reward. You need to be prepared to put your neck on the line to get the best results!! That example on xcom the squadsight sniper, they are nerfing him, on a 1 player game!!

If you don't think there should be a risk, don't leave the mcc!

Risk= reward????? hardly for snipers

There is your problem, why should snipers be devoid of risk?
Please watch the video, it even shows sniping, as they intend it, and tell you, you dont have to be the same!

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sniper1.htm

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sniper1.htm

???NO VIDEO??

Dust 514 is virtual console game, not RL. Science doesn't work in Dust 514

Snipers are not void of risk, in fact the more you kill the more you risk. Risk never equals reward for a sniper. Tactics, stealth and distance equal reward for a sniper.

Again whats the point of having snipers if we are not using them as they are supposed to be?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


Get them out of the game then!

Thats risk you fool, the risk your tactics are scuppered, the risk you are detected, the closer you are the greater the risk!!

wait.... your using a sniper in ways its not supposed to be used... becuase you dont want to use it as intended...


then you complain when the new maps dont support your broken playstyle that doesnt help the team.


YOUR the one not using the sniper as its designed....

and the enw maps DID remove that playstyle form the game.


so all your requests were granted... its just that you diddnt expect that YOUR playstyle would be the one to be removed

But not the reward, a long range rifle used at close range...... whats the point? just use assault?!?!?

How exactly is it supposed to be used, maybe I don't understand?

Ok three options:
1. Running and gunning
2. Sniping
3. Driving a vehicle

If your running and gunning with a sniper....... no, this sounds right to you all?

Obviously, because boo hoo if you can't kill a sniper, boo hoo if you get shot in the head after running all the way across the map and boo hoo if you can't figure out where you're getting shot from. So now you got what you want we have to get down there with you. Running and gunning with a sniper rifle makes perfect sense to me. the moment you took away our ability to headshot crying little ground pounders you killed the sniper. They will all but disappear if the maps continue this way

How exactly is it supposed to be used, maybe I don't understand?

Ok, but your squad is inside the compound going for Alpha and Bravo and it seems like the entire enemy team is in there too. you're not coming out accomplishing a lot of anything except dying.

Thats me MCC AFK fatty, tell me how you support your team when they are inside the new compounds?

Thats risk you fool, the risk your tactics are scuppered, the risk you are detected, the closer you are the greater the risk!!

Ok the research facility, you know where b is? In the unloading bay and up the stairs, there is a lovely balcony with lets you see the entrance to the compound, through a window, and halfway down the stairs to the underground, you setup shop, stop them from entering via those points, that way you and a friend can suppress an entire side of the compound!!

Thats me MCC AFK fatty, tell me how you support your team when they are inside the new compounds?

And then shotgun.. or duvolle or whatever your taking 30-40 meter shots with a rifle designed for shots over 200m. whats the point.

Sniping in range of an assault rifle is just plain stupid. I don't care what you guys say. I agree with the OP. The last patch was a complete cornhole to snipers, the maps, the afk timer, everything. As if finding a spot out of range of a much more powerful, higher rate of fire weapon is not hard enough, now you have to "DO SOMETHING" in a certain amount of time too or get logged out of the match.

This is NOT how snipers work in the real world. A sniper in the real world will lay in a pile a trash for 2 days to obtain their objective. There is no one there telling them that they have to "do something" or get sent away. And most of all, a sniper in the real world does not snipe in range of weapons with less range than he has. If you are are going to be within assault rifle range, any CO worth his salt will tell you, MOVE, that is unless you are carrying a suitcase of rifles around the battle field with you.

Within the confines of these new buildings however, you are not only in rifle range, but machine gun range, grenade range, and everything else. And that Nova Knife crap really burns me up. That's some John Wayne BS if I've ever seen it.

"Hey Sarge!! We got us a sniper up on that hill!" (Sarge, putting his nova knife in his teeth) "I'll get him."

GTFOH!

Quote from Wikipedia on Snipers...

"A sniper is a highly trained marksman who operates alone, in a pair, or with a sniper team to maintain close visual contact with the enemy and engage targets from concealed positions or distances exceeding the detection capabilities of enemy personnel."

I don't see anywhere in that statement that I am supposed to be there so that the dumbass that chose to use the Nova Knife could have an easy target, which is exactly what we have been reduced to.

Sniping in range of an assault rifle is just plain stupid. I don't care what you guys say. I agree with the OP. The last patch was a complete cornhole to snipers, the maps, the afk timer, everything. As if finding a spot out of range of a much more powerful, higher rate of fire weapon is not hard enough, now you have to "DO SOMETHING" in a certain amount of time too or get logged out of the match.

This is NOT how snipers work in the real world. A sniper in the real world will lay in a pile a trash for 2 days to obtain their objective. There is no one there telling them that they have to "do something" or get sent away. And most of all, a sniper in the real world does not snipe in range of weapons with less range than he has. If you are are going to be within assault rifle range, any CO worth his salt will tell you, MOVE, that is unless you are carrying a suitcase of rifles around the battle field with you.

Within the confines of these new buildings however, you are not only in rifle range, but machine gun range, grenade range, and everything else. And that Nova Knife crap really burns me up. That's some John Wayne BS if I've ever seen it.

"Hey Sarge!! We got us a sniper up on that hill!" (Sarge, putting his nova knife in his teeth) "I'll get him."

GTFOH!

Quote from Wikipedia on Snipers...

"A sniper is a highly trained marksman who operates alone, in a pair, or with a sniper team to maintain close visual contact with the enemy and engage targets from concealed positions or distances exceeding the detection capabilities of enemy personnel."

I don't see anywhere in that statement that I am supposed to be there so that the dumbass that chose to use the Nova Knife could have an easy target, which is exactly what we have been reduced to.

Because in real life there is a hell of alot more open ground, snipers kill in one shot, and hell we don't have a radar to tell people are trying to sneak around.

I run a std suit with a std sniper rifle, with remote explosives from time to time. It works fine for me! I didn't say assault rifle range did I? If you are dying to an assault rifle at 80m you are doing something wrong!! As for being an easy target for nova knives, its only if you let him see you!!

Why can't people use paragraphs? My eye's!!!

At least he wasn't misusing apostrophes.

eyes = more than one eye.
eye's = of the (single) eye.

My eyes! = an exclamation about how your eyes are hurting from trying to read the horrible unformatted wall of text (OP, you know you can edit in formatting, right?)
My eye's! = incomplete sentence in great need of more words. Your eye's what, exactly? And what about the object/abstract noun that belongs to your eye. And do you only have one eye, or does only one of your eyes have this unspecified something you forgot to tell us about?

---

Back on-topic though...

Sorry, OP, but I've seen plenty of competent snipers who have adapted to the new maps and sockets and found ways to make it work FOR them instead of AGAINST them. There's a bit of a learning curve any time the maps change, but a good sniper can still be a game-changer once they understand how to play to their strengths on the new maps. You can't directly control the objective itself in some spaces, but you can block every major route into the objective, and that's just as good if you do it right.

The big problem with the update ISN'T the maps - it's the problematic and horrifically badly-implemented AFK timer. You can sit above an objective, WELL into the middle of the battlefield, sat in place and ready to fight, but because you're not doing anything but aiming and turning, the game will say "nope, AFK" and kick you from the battle when you're an active participant, but it WON'T kick someone out when they've got themselves wedged into a corner then rubber-banded their analog sticks together, or aimed for a corner and taped/rubber-banded their left stick so they keep trying to walk through the wall. Penalising a perfectly legitimate playstyle and NOT punishing moderately-inventive players who choose to AFK is just ridiculous.

Some high ground outside of the compounds would be nice, so i can see what myself or my squad are running into or maybe cutting us a way in or holding the enemy back with a few well timed shots. but running into high enemy traffic areas. knowing you're going to have close engagements, idiotic. Yes plenty are adapting but soon enough when the new "nests" are known there will be more like me.

Some high ground outside of the compounds would be nice, so i can see what myself or my squad are running into or maybe cutting us a way in or holding the enemy back with a few well timed shots. but running into high enemy traffic areas. knowing you're going to have close engagements, idiotic. Yes plenty are adapting but soon enough when the new "nests" are known there will be more like me.

I've seen some very novel locations for snipers already.

More good high points that aren't either:
a) in the redzone
b) on an objective

This is DEFINITELY something I'd like to see for snipers (and I'm a Shotgun Scout). There are some good spots, and some even better counter-sniping spots for a lot of them, and there are some surprisingly useful positions a careful sniper can find without having to resort to redline sniping, but the game could definitely do with some less obvious out-of-the-way sniper perches. They don't need to exist on every map, but a few maps with such things would be nice.

this guy sounds like he doesnt want to even be a sniper. he wants to be an MCC afker with kills...


you dont actually have to engage in close quarters unless someone finds you. you have to be smart though and know where the battlelines will be drawn ahead of time and camp out and wait for the enamy to cross line of fire while they engage your forces.

if someone spots you, RUN AWAY. reset and find the next spot.

this guy just wants good vantage points in the redzone, something the devs specifically designed to prevent.(for the most part)

the only good those vantage points left in the red zone are going to be is for when your redlined.



learn to actually step outside of the red and help your team.

This guy just wants to be a sniper, not an assault rifle or laser rifle or swarm launcher or shotgun or mass driver or plasma cannon or scrambler rifle.

I do step out of the red and help my team, I just don't get as close as they do and i take my shots from far away. can't do that anymore, have to be closer now. quit bashing me and address this as a problem. if you're here to judge me as a player open a new thread and we can talk there.

This guy just wants to be a sniper, not an assault rifle or laser rifle or swarm launcher or shotgun or mass driver or plasma cannon or scrambler rifle.

I do step out of the red and help my team, I just don't get as close as they do and i take my shots from far away. can't do that anymore, have to be closer now. quit bashing me and address this as a problem. if you're here to judge me as a player open a new thread and we can talk there.

Sniper fits leave you no more exposed than AV/ swarm fits. If your complaint is based on running logi suits to snipe, instead of a sidearm, then you are using your equipment in a way other than what was intended. No fix necessary.

That being said, sniper rifles should have some sort of crosshair without going ADS. This is one factor that keeps snipers in the redline. Or get mobile with a spotter/ guardian. Teamwork is critical for all roles, and snipers should not feel like they are not part of a team.

Thats what they are doing, the better the view, the more exposed you have to be to take the shot, if you have a limited view its more protected, but less useful!!

Sniper fits leave you no more exposed than AV/ swarm fits. If your complaint is based on running logi suits to snipe, instead of a sidearm, then you are using your equipment in a way other than what was intended. No fix necessary.

That being said, sniper rifles should have some sort of crosshair without going ADS. This is one factor that keeps snipers in the redline. Or get mobile with a spotter/ guardian. Teamwork is critical for all roles, and snipers should not feel like they are not part of a team.

The fact is you don't get anything for "recon" except the title of AFKer so your only role as a sniper is to deny safe area's to the enemy with the equipment we get, the role of our primary weapon is almost obsolete in doing this.

the problems your facing are problems you yourself have to learn to solve. its what seperates good snipers from people with a sniper rifle equipped.

you have to be able to read a battle and know the maps.

the issues your bringing up are a matter of playstyle not game mechanics.

adjust your playstyle, learn, and grow as a player. these problems of yours cant be fixed by anyone but yourself.

My problem is that i am no longer part of the team i can't cover or provide overwatch anymore. i am being told i have to "kepp moving" find new nest, if i get shot at run, set up somewhere else. sounds like i should just get an assault rifle and go in doing all that, no?

you have a supercharged tac rifle.


use it like a supercharged tac rifle....

its not rocket science

I thought it was a matter of terrain if you don't have good sniping terrain you don't have good snipers.

So what do you expect, to just sit there, undetectable, unbeatable while droves of enemy units wander into your sights?

I'm not talking about exposure.

I want good open, EXPOSED locations that are still exposed, but are further out from the main routes or the objectives.

At the moment, you have to be on an objective, or on a direct line between them, to get a decent vantage point as a sniper. There are VERY few spots that are viable for sniping that aren't directly in the path of enemies, and they're all in the redlines. Snipers need positions where they can head AWAY from the objectives to set up camp.

But like I said, this doesn't need to be available everywhere - it just needs to be an option on some maps.

Its a sniper rifle, and its that thinking that has me wondering why there are sniper in the first place. If you don't like what a sniper gets to do then get rid of them don't give it to them then slowly take it away.

Terrain is only one, relatively minor, factor in being a good sniper.

You CAN be a good sniper in a bad sniping map. You need to be patient, cautious, and willing to reposition when you've been spotted.

My bad I misunderstood you, I thought there were opportunities like this on the new maps, fractured road I will admit the main theater isnt exactly a snipers paradise, however there are points like on the bridge where a sniper can shine!!

*facepalm*

you have an ENTIRE thread worth of people telling you snipers are doing just fine.

its just that you dont know how to play one.

ANYWHERE can become a viable sniper perch - you just need to be there at the right time.

Although I don't like for ppl to do so, I find it hard not to compare this to CoD every now and then.

In this case it's the way the community feels as opposed to the game play.

In CoD the idea of running around WITH the team was deemed unrealistic as you where forced into mid and short range engagements and were still able to handle yourself. It was even possible to get more kills "Quick Scoping" than using any other weapon (In MW3 I got 25 kills straight during a random game of team deathmatch). Although it took some practice, by comparison it is MUCH easier to quick scope in CoD than in DUST and yet in CoD the community insists on telling the sniper to back the 'F' up.

In DUST it is much harder to "Quick Scope" and therefore not recommended to be with the squad. There is even a sniper rifle that has an enhanced scope to further the idea of long range warfare. And yet the community insists on the sniper getting closer to the action. This isn't to say it is impossible to mid-range snipe as I find it to be quite fun. The fact that CCP made it harder to snipe by forcing you to be more "In the fray" is a contradiction to the weapon's original design. Now if they would reduce the scope range or add a mid range sniper rifle (don't say TAC or ScR) than dedicated snipers that can't seem to get the hang of mid range sniping would have an easier time making the adjustment.

That's just what was running through the ol' noggin and I decided to type it out. I'm sure you guys may disagree with me but then again you are free to have your own opinions on the subject.

---

`Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST.

At least he wasn't misusing apostrophes.

eyes = more than one eye.
eye's = of the (single) eye.

My eyes! = an exclamation about how your eyes are hurting from trying to read the horrible unformatted wall of text (OP, you know you can edit in formatting, right?)
My eye's! = incomplete sentence in great need of more words. Your eye's what, exactly? And what about the object/abstract noun that belongs to your eye. And do you only have one eye, or does only one of your eyes have this unspecified something you forgot to tell us about?

THIS a million times this

sniping is about reading the battlefield more then it is about finding that one broken position you can camp in

Across all the maps currently happening, with the varied socket layouts I've seen, there have only been 2 snipers I've found who were in good positions OUTSIDE the redline without being directly on a main route that other players use. If there are more than a couple of positions like this on a few maps, that's all I think is needed.

I don't generally snipe myself, so I rely on my girlfriend and my victims to show me where the good sniper nests are.

One thing I have learned from watching my girlfriend is that when the battle lines are right, ANYWHERE can become a viable sniper perch - you just need to be there at the right time.

Actually i think being a sniper is about finding A broken position you can camp in so long as it helps the team, when its no longer advantageous you move along. That being said if you don't need to move to continue helping your team AS A SNIPER then you don't need to move. If your no longer helping, you need to move and find the next whole in the enemies defense and set up there. The combat inside those compounds/sockets is to fast paced most of the time. I have fought inside of them as a sniper and i have been successful there. It's not impossible and i have done it, but, that is not what a sniper should do. We get this whole map to work with and then we're reduced to work within 1/10th of it.

Actually i think being a sniper is about finding A broken position you can camp in so long as it helps the team, when its no longer advantageous you move along. That being said if you don't need to move to continue helping your team AS A SNIPER then you don't need to move. If your no longer helping, you need to move and find the next whole in the enemies defense and set up there. The combat inside those compounds/sockets is to fast paced most of the time. I have fought inside of them as a sniper and i have been successful there. It's not impossible and i have done it, but, that is not what a sniper should do. We get this whole map to work with and then we're reduced to work within 1/10th of it.

If you're expecting to stay still all game, I'm sorry, but you're NOT a good sniper.

Snipers are, by definition, a reactive role in gaming. You position yourself NOT based on "this is a perfect position" but based on "this is the right place to be RIGHT NOW" and be ready to move when the situation changes, or when you're spotted.

Actually i think being a sniper is about finding A broken position you can camp in so long as it helps the team, when its no longer advantageous you move along. That being said if you don't need to move to continue helping your team AS A SNIPER then you don't need to move. If your no longer helping, you need to move and find the next whole in the enemies defense and set up there. The combat inside those compounds/sockets is to fast paced most of the time. I have fought inside of them as a sniper and i have been successful there. It's not impossible and i have done it, but, that is not what a sniper should do. We get this whole map to work with and then we're reduced to work within 1/10th of it.

ahh thats the problem.

snipers arnt supposed to be able to find a broken position in a game.

thats what balance is.

I think that is being a good sniper and snipers were "getting to many kills" so enough people like you complained about it and now it's been "fixed." I want more of the old maps. i want people like you to cry when a good sniper ruins your attempts to kill his team or hack his objectives.

I think that is being a good sniper and snipers were "getting to many kills" so enough people like you complained about it and now it's been "fixed." I want more of the old maps. i want people like you to cry when a good sniper ruins your attempts to kill his team or hack his objectives.

new maps are very sniper friendly.

they just arnt built so that the only counter is another sniper.

before you could just sit up on an unreachable tower and be invulnerable to everything but other snipers.

now you actually have to think about where you are and move with the battle.



think of it as taking the training wheels off.

Dude if the majority of null cannons are in 1/10th of the map you will more than likely be expected to contribute to the battle in that 1/10th there are only 16 people a side, that enough fro 2 squads and 4 left over, there aren't gonna be hundreds of battles to choose from!

I think that is being a good sniper and snipers were "getting to many kills" so enough people like you complained about it and now it's been "fixed." I want more of the old maps. i want people like you to cry when a good sniper ruins your attempts to kill his team or hack his objectives.

Sums it up.

Yep, and a whole lot of running room, or maybe i could just race my LAV around the outside since no ones there of AFK off in the middle of nowhere because everyones crammed together in a COD size area fighting for objective with the walls put up to cut off the snipers.

Do you know what I do to snipers who do that? Introduce them to my shotgun!! Multiple times, you see we can deal with being sniped, if the sniper is taking a risk to do it, he's taken a risk he got a reward, I took a risk jg didn't pay off, if you expect to sit on hill sniping people from where you can't be hit, well guess what that time is over, and my shorgun is waiting at your redline!

Or you join in, and make a difference instead of bumming around look for easy risk-less kills!!

-reference- everything i've already said in this post, did you even read it all?

LOL, this guy.... hes funny

i called it, he wants to sit on a tower invulnerable to everything and call it "tactics"

Pretty sure I never said that.

If you're going to cut quotes down, please do it right.

wth do you all think of when you think... sniper?

Good Sniper: Mobile long-range supporting fire.
Bad sniper: Camping kill-hog.

-reference- everything i've already said in this post, did you even read it all?

You all are funny, sniper are supposed to run around, snipers are supposed to be in the middle of it with the team, teamwork!
wth do you all think of when you think... sniper?

First it Monkey not Garrett!!
Secondly if you have no problem with me putting a shotgun in your face in feild, why have you got such a problem to me doing it in a compound where you have more chances to hide, more opportunities for traps, and more opportunities to kill more people!!

Yes I have been reading it all, the one I was responding to was complaing that because the majority of the match is going on in a small section you have nothing to do, so get of your behind go in there and change the battle!! If there is nothing to do move to somewhere where there is something todo!!

my bad, it think i did it again

If you put snipers into a game, make them snipers. If not.... take them out. No gamer in their right mind likes a sniper as a matter of fact you hate snipers. If they're in a game, sure reel them in make them less effective but don't take away the primary role.

This is what we think, notice how hes a little closer than 100m, in a flanking posistion, taking care of the enemy, to help his team advance!!

http://dust514.com/media/videos/fight-your-own-war/

He was able to sit back and snipe into an open area. you cannot do that with some of the new sockets. that was the whole point of this thread.

They haven't taken away the primary role. It's actually made more viable in DUST than most shooters, which make snipers into killing machines isntead of a tactical resource. Adding the ability to see who the squad leaders are in 1.5 has made snipers even more effective, because you can preferentially target them and eliminate the guy about to drop an orbital.

you CAN

thats what were telling you.

everything you think is wrong... isnt actually a problem for anyone but you.

I'll tale your word for every sniper in dust

He was able to sit back and snipe into an open area. you cannot do that with some of the new sockets. that was the whole point of this thread.

i guess i'm more so talking about some of the new sockets that eliminate the sniper factor all together.

Let me say it other way... this is SCI-FI mmo fps (rpg), NOT RL SNIPING SIMULATOR. This works for you?

There are no sockets which invalidate sniping across the entire map just by their presence in one location on the map.

There are a few which make sniping more difficult and a less reliable option around that one area of the map, but even then, it's never totally invalidated, it just takes a slight change in approach when you're fighting in that particular area.

Garrett could you do me a favour im on tablet atnthe moment could copy in the grid layout of the new research facility large socket?? Thanks

I've got it

The Gallente research facility- the weapons lab and the power cores. wide open spaces blocked off by high walls and only good nest are within 50m of any enemy almost the entire time. <-- not prime for sniping

the ledge objective is open season for snipers and to be sniped from.

you can position to snipe down into the power core from well outside it.

the roads are huge choke points, you can snipe assaulters trying to get into the power core.

the edges of the facility have LOADS of hidden little places that overlook the many defencive and offenceive chokepoints and are RIPE for sniping.

The Gallente research facility- the weapons lab and the power cores. wide open spaces blocked off by high walls and only good nest are within 50m of any enemy almost the entire time. <-- not prime for sniping

why is this so hard to understand.

Here's the page i've got.

http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/08/gallente-research-facility/

Sorry not what I meant go to
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107073&find=unread
and take the image paste in so we can see it!!

Sorry not what I meant go to
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107073&find=unread
and take the image paste in so we can see it!!

Only devs are allowed to use [img] code on these forums.

Two roads and some open areas with minimal retreat options, the first sign that i'm running scout/sniper i get run down by a Gek or Duvolle. retreating back to my team mates to get there help only throws me in with the people their dealing with and running into the open area, well its useless. This socket has made my job no longer a nuisance, which is what it is supposed to be.

Sorry not what I meant go to
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107073&find=unread
and take the image paste in so we can see it!!

alright im done.


HTFU GETGUD go play COD

adapt or die



can i have your stuff when you quit?

Damn, ok this is gonna be a bit of a pain!!

F3 is nice spot
I3 is a lovely spot to force enemies into killzones
M4 works well at keeping them out

Thesd are just a few places!!

The sockets outside of this facility aren't that bad the objective is shielded so i cant take out hackers and yet i have high ground i can sit far enough away to stand a chance while taking shots at enemys running around and i'm not completely invulnerable. why is this facility so guarded against that?

Why can't people use paragraphs? My eye's!!!

not quitting, if you don't like snipers you go play COD and why dont you have to adapt or die, why is always the sniper adjusting on our end?

i'm going in now i'll give them a go

why is always the sniper adjusting on our end?

Hey, I know a lot of people hate snipers... but scouts in general have been finding aspects of the latest release challenging.

It does get tough to snipe once everyone knows where the perches are and they are generally within everyone's weapon range. And, agreed, if you can snipe while there is a running battle people will be too busy to notice you, for a while, so you have to pay attention and have an escape route ready.

I think one of the ways to get back into "sniping" is to be a bit unorthodox in finding places to snipe from.

i LOVE good snipers, as ive said before

good snipers are an asset and are doing quite well on the new maps.

Why do heavies have to adapt with every new build that changes how the HMG/Forge and Heavy/Sentinel suits work?
Why do Scouts have to adapt every time our role changes?
Why do Logis have to adapt every time their role bonuses are changed?

EVERYONE has their role changed to some degree in a variety of updates as time goes on. EVERYONE has to adapt when their role changes. It's not just snipers.

Who hey hey less of the monkey, I may found it easy but thats not the point!!
ANYONE can do it, the old maps are risk free and open, now you might have to move into about 90m your flipping your lid!!

Not doing bad on new maps just want to go back to sniping like a sniper......... not like an assault guy with a sniper rifle. i hope i cut that quote right?!?

I wouldn't have minded CCP's new direction if it was limited to only a few generated sockets, but the intention is to make ALL SOCKETS long-range attack proof.

Source?

Because I'm pretty sure this hasn't happened, and I'm pretty sure there hasn't been any official word that it's anywhere in the plan.

There are positions which are relatively unfriendly to long-range attacks, but they're balanced out by good sniper points in and around other sockets and even other parts of the same socket in most cases.

I'd like to help scout for my team but the new scanners (the ones I've used) don't have the range I need to snipe and scan properly. Sniping is usually done at a range of about 400m. There may be some scanner variants that can scan up to 400m, so I might be wrong. I can still use my eyeball but I can't really take in big movements, now I'm usually just reporting stragglers, snipers or people at the fringe of the map. Very occasionally I can spot a bigger group that my team isn't aware of. To be clear: I don't want squad vision back, I'm just pointing out things I notice.

I'll transplant this here.




90m is a sweet spot for weapons like the tactical assautlt rifle, and scrambler rifle. That's no place for a sniper to be, unless he too uses a TAC AR or a SCR.

Hm. Sniper Rifles are quickly finding themselves to be useless weapons if CCP continues on this track.

For those saying that sniper rifles can still kill up close. I say this:
There are weapons more efficient for the ranges that you are using your sniper rifles at. I've eaten a fair share of my fellow snipers, by simply using a charged scrambler shot.
.

not even going to bother reading this until its put in paragraphs

...............and i say quit your bitching and adapt you want to complain about weapons not doing their intended job, look at the HMG its is ******* pathedic even in its intended role to ANYTHING that everyone else can use
if i remember correctly, it was ~chromosone era in which hmgs were actually useful, now even in these CQC maps it is outclassed by smgs and ARs

so you have to use your sniper in closer range, i seem to be able to do this with the militia SR perfectly fine, all we see here is a broken playstyle and circular logic on what "you" believe a sniper should be. Your perspective isnt the only one, on the new sockets i have more issues with close ranges snipers than i do long range ones because they arent terribad with a SR. Welcome to New Eden adapt or die

by the way, sniper isn't a class, its a weapon there aren't really "classes" in this game so stop saying fix the sniper class or remove it as it isn't a class in the first place

Source?

You feel the sniper is weak or not a good player or they can kill you without meeting you "face to face" or "fighting like a man," most of all a good sniper renders you defenseless. You're helpless and you cant even shoot back. Well needless to say this is why long range rifle where created in the first place, to kill the enemy without the enemy being able to retaliate. A good sniper is a force multiplier and can deny an enemy access to certain areas or comfort on the battlefield. Much of these things can be said about tanks or mass divers or a good forge gunner and now a group of assault rifles. Yet none of these roles have had drastic map changes to limit their capabilities. If this role on the battlefield is so insignificant or so unfair than it shouldn't be a part of the game. Yet, it is and instead of letting the sniper do what a sniper should be capable of doing you slowly render them incapable of helping their team. With most of the fight happening within closed areas a sniper is forced to take to the ground meters behind their team mates and be subject to the amount of firepower they are. This defeats the purpose of the long range rifle. Why not just make a very powerful mid range weapon with a low rate of fire? The sniper shouldn't be able to pick of hackers on objectives, I agree, this is incredibly unfair considering the time it takes the average player to hack one objective. Although closing in the objective behind walls within a building inside of a compound has done way more than prevented snipers from camping objectives. It has prevented snipers from helping their team to maneuver around the battlefield. It has prevented the sniper from being able to find places in maps where a sniper should be because they just aren't there anymore. If these are the types of maps we can look forward to then the sniper rifles should be gone. It is hated by many and for good reason they don't like the fact that someone with enough skill and a powerful weapon can sit back and pull the trigger once without even batting and eye and kill them. To these people I say.. adapt. With all of the changes made to the sniper class adapting is no longer worth the outcome, you can no longer function as a combat sniper within this game anymore. You are now a ground pounder like the rest. With every game comes new challenges and with those new challenges is finding ways within your own experience and talent to defeat the other players. That includes snipers, which now can no longer function. If you can't find a way to defeat a snipers attack then go play candy crush or something this is a war game and with it comes the tools of war. Fix the maps or Nix the class.

I just got pub stomped by your wall of text, but I agree, the new maps are not ideal for snipers. A true sniper will always adapt though so I'm not to worried about it.

You sound so miserable...
You recognize that niche weapons are NOT operating well within their intended niche, but instead of giving constructive feedback to fix this, you give up, and buy into the bravado of "Adapt or Die", just to prove how much of a little trooper you are.

Congratulations, you are the kind of player that is absolutely NO help to the progress of this game. Good job.

I didn't call "sniper" a class. It's actually a role, that a player takes on himself. Read it again.

I've already "adapted". I'm a sniper that utilizes a scrambler rifle from fire support range. I utilize scrambler rifles with great effect, but that doesn't mean that I will ignore the problem. I'll try to give feedback that supports all sides, with a bias in favor of niche roles because the majority of players are not niche players.

If you want to prove how much of a trooper you are, don't wallow in self-pity and take pride in that, by chanting, "Welcome to New Eden... Adapt or Die...." Take some initiative. Get active give feedback and help the game improve!



Link Provided: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=108079&find=unread
CCP LogicLoop quotes.

I'm all for balancing sockets out, but I seriously think that 100% Long-Range Attack proof sockets is imbalanced. Let sockets have both kinds of objective. Some covered, and some exposed, so that all players can participate.

A good example actually is XCOM enemy unknown, you get a stativ sniper who potshots from other side of the map, no risk deadly effecient, easy peasy!! However there was also a snapshot sniper who moves with the team, you could move and shoot on the same turn, very useful, but often overlooked because of the risk!!

Objective hack locations are to be protected from "long range" attacks and any snipers if at all possible.

Christ almighty....

FFS.... that really IS a big wall of text.

And you're right. Snipers can adapt right now, by utilizing and skilling into weapons like the TAC AR and Scrambler.... at least until a better remedy is found for either the map sockets or the sniper rifle itself.

I proposed eliminating sway for the sniper rifle while crouched, so that fire support snipers that use the sniper rifle, can crawl in and out of cover without worrying about losing their aim.

re-read your OP line 17
you do infact call the sniper a class
i found the HMG doesnt work, so i stopped using it and found one that does, which also maintains my divercial preferences without folowing the FOTM craze
i would post constructive ideas, but after reading near 10 pages of "constructive criticism" of your playstyle and how others make it work with you refusing all of them, all there is to say to you is adapt, be willing to change your gameplay style

True, but I also meant that you can do frontline sniping or just find a spot close to the action, take some shots, move and repeat.

Just because a sniper rifle CAN be used on the frontline effectively, doesn't mean it is being used efficiently.

Just the same, how a Scout suit CAN melee a Heavy suit effectively, but that doesn't mean that a Scout melee on a Heavy suit is efficient.

Everyone saying, "A sniper can still kill upclose." Is using a strawman argument.
Here's a question, would you run to front line combat in PC, using a sniper rifle. Just being bold, charging all those proto duvolles and scramblers with your militia sniper rifle?
If you say yes, then we know you're being humorous. Very funny.

If you say no, than why not?
Answer that honestly, and then you'll know why the new sockets are broken for snipers.

Just be straight up honest. Would you go into PC, and charge the front line, with a sniper rifle?

Let's bump it up a notch.
Would you go into a PC match against TeamPlayers, Synergy, or Ancient Exiles, and charge and try to flank their front line with a sniper rifle?
Would you?
Be honest.

You could always read post #5 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1308329#post1308329

Amen, brother.


Munch

only thing stopping me is lack of hipfire crosshairs, and i dont do PC battles yet

what should be done though is to give the sniper rifle itself some sort of buff in terms of damage, clip size, RoF or minus sway penalty, but only one from that list, not all or some. or what they could do is make weapons customizable in this game as to allow different set up even with same weapons

I disagree.

I don't need a buff.

I just need maps/slots that I can do something useful on.


Munch

Damn near perfect analogy Monkey!

I'm not trying to be condescending.
Just letting you know... that when you finally face off in a top-tier PC match, and you find yourself with a sniper rifle, within 100m of hostiles.... you will find yourself singing a different tune too.

"Sniper Rifles Are Just Fine Up Close - by DJ Noob" is NOT be the song you will be singing.