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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
138
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Posted - 2013.09.17 21:33:00 -
[181] - Quote
Wow... The number of people who cannot differentiate between " being a sniper" and "using a sniper rifle" is amazing to say the least...
First of all let me state that it is literally impossible to be a "close range sniper". Why? Because sniping is a concept upon an action. Sniping is the act of shooting a target while concealed and usually implied, at long range, the equipment of which can be any kind of projectile from a slingshot, a bow, or even a gun. Using a sniper rifle in and of itself does not make one a sniper!
At within 80 m of a target you are inside the "infantry" range as that is the range that typical assault weapons work at, therefore if using a sniper within that range you are technically a burst-fire assault. You can't be concealed either at that range because as soon as they turn to look in your general direction, you light up like a Christmas tree. Concealment is harder the closer you are to a target, and the state of being concealed is the core definition of sniping.
A side example can be seen with the everyday actions of running and walking. Just because the person wears "running shoes" but never runs in them doesn't magically make that person a runner because of the gear...
*sigh* |
ShinyJay
Destruction Reapers
The Superpowers
101
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Posted - 2013.09.17 21:47:00 -
[182] - Quote
ok i see this as getting no where. let me start off with me first. I'm a scout sniper first and heavy second. I took the time to fully spec into snipers, because i love how they feel to me and i love being that long range assassin. i bring me a side arm anywhere between nova knives, pistols, and SMG (mostly nova knives and pistols). as a scout, my job is to not get found and as a sniper, to pick off targets and protect/defend my squad and/or objective.
with that said, scouts are speed demons on the battlefield, and as such, should use that speed to their advantage. since i can no longer find perches to sniper from, or rather they are over populated, i make my perch on the very ground i walk on as soon as i spot enemy movement. in CoD, i always held that gun and run style of sniping with a different scope to aid me, like the ACOG scope. all i have to do is change up tactics, but not by much since it was something i had always done.
what should be done though is to give the sniper rifle itself some sort of buff in terms of damage, clip size, RoF or minus sway penalty, but only one from that list, not all or some. or what they could do is make weapons customizable in this game as to allow different set up even with same weapons |
Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
375
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Posted - 2013.09.17 22:02:00 -
[183] - Quote
ShinyJay wrote:what should be done though is to give the sniper rifle itself some sort of buff in terms of damage, clip size, RoF or minus sway penalty, but only one from that list, not all or some. or what they could do is make weapons customizable in this game as to allow different set up even with same weapons
I disagree.
I don't need a buff.
I just need maps/slots that I can do something useful on.
Munch
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ShinyJay
Destruction Reapers
The Superpowers
101
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Posted - 2013.09.17 22:14:00 -
[184] - Quote
Poonmunch wrote:ShinyJay wrote:what should be done though is to give the sniper rifle itself some sort of buff in terms of damage, clip size, RoF or minus sway penalty, but only one from that list, not all or some. or what they could do is make weapons customizable in this game as to allow different set up even with same weapons I disagree. I don't need a buff. I just need maps/slots that I can do something useful on. Munch
anywhere can be useful, just have to look at where the battle is at, at the given time. snipers just don't want to move from there perch. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
517
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Posted - 2013.09.17 22:37:00 -
[185] - Quote
Dunk Mujunk wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:A good example actually is XCOM enemy unknown, you get a stativ sniper who potshots from other side of the map, no risk deadly effecient, easy peasy!! However there was also a snapshot sniper who moves with the team, you could move and shoot on the same turn, very useful, but often overlooked because of the risk!! Damn near perfect analogy Monkey!
Why thank you!! 
Did you know in the expansion theu are nerfing it? |
Dimitri Rascolovitch
The Immortal Knights
42
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Posted - 2013.09.18 04:24:00 -
[186] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote:Jathniel wrote:Fire of Prometheus wrote:Jathniel wrote:
Christ almighty....
FFS.... that really IS a big wall of text.
And you're right. Snipers can adapt right now, by utilizing and skilling into weapons like the TAC AR and Scrambler.... at least until a better remedy is found for either the map sockets or the sniper rifle itself.
I proposed eliminating sway for the sniper rifle while crouched, so that fire support snipers that use the sniper rifle, can crawl in and out of cover without worrying about losing their aim.
True, but I also meant that you can do frontline sniping or just find a spot close to the action, take some shots, move and repeat. Just because a sniper rifle CAN be used on the frontline effectively, doesn't mean it is being used efficiently. Just the same, how a Scout suit CAN melee a Heavy suit effectively, but that doesn't mean that a Scout melee on a Heavy suit is efficient. Everyone saying, "A sniper can still kill upclose." Is using a strawman argument. Here's a question, would you run to front line combat in PC, using a sniper rifle. Just being bold, charging all those proto duvolles and scramblers with your militia sniper rifle? If you say yes, then we know you're being humorous. Very funny. If you say no, than why not? Answer that honestly, and then you'll know why the new sockets are broken for snipers. only thing stopping me is lack of hipfire crosshairs, and i dont do PC battles yet I'm not trying to be condescending. Just letting you know... that when you finally face off in a top-tier PC match, and you find yourself with a sniper rifle, within 100m of hostiles.... you will find yourself singing a different tune too. "Sniper Rifles Are Just Fine Up Close - by DJ Noob" is NOT be the song you will be singing.
ill be singin whatever the hell i want because i am an arrogant egotistical bastard |
Jathniel
G I A N T
EoN.
976
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Posted - 2013.09.18 05:30:00 -
[187] - Quote
Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote:Jathniel wrote:
I'm not trying to be condescending.
Just letting you know... that when you finally face off in a top-tier PC match, and you find yourself with a sniper rifle, within 100m of hostiles.... you will find yourself singing a different tune too.
"Sniper Rifles Are Just Fine Up Close - by DJ Noob" is NOT be the song you will be singing.
ill be singin whatever the hell i want because i am an arrogant egotistical bastard
lol xD
+1
Poonmunch wrote:I disagree.
I don't need a buff.
I just need maps/slots that I can do something useful on.
Munch
Barring that, they could just kill the crouch sway, so that snipers can crawl around in a firefight without constantly losing their aim. Sometimes, disengaging to flank is not an option.
Every other weapon in this game can be practically used while doing backflips and cartwheels, FFS. Is killing sniper sway movement penalty while crouched too much to ask? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4061
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Posted - 2013.09.18 06:43:00 -
[188] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:why would i search through a thread if im not going to read the op because its a wall of text.
If I expected you to have read through the thread, I wouldn't have posted a link and would have just said "several people have already fixed it, (insert generic insult here)" instead of being helpful. |
Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
378
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Posted - 2013.09.18 10:41:00 -
[189] - Quote
ShinyJay wrote:Poonmunch wrote:ShinyJay wrote:what should be done though is to give the sniper rifle itself some sort of buff in terms of damage, clip size, RoF or minus sway penalty, but only one from that list, not all or some. or what they could do is make weapons customizable in this game as to allow different set up even with same weapons I disagree. I don't need a buff. I just need maps/slots that I can do something useful on. Munch anywhere can be useful, just have to look at where the battle is at, at the given time. snipers just don't want to move from there perch.
I move around all game.
I snipe, I hack, I scout.
Munch
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Salviatino Maiano
Pawns and Kings
The Superpowers
17
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Posted - 2013.09.18 17:02:00 -
[190] - Quote
Ok, I definitely need to use paragraphs! Summing up the point i've been trying to make. The multi level aspects of warfare within dust including land and air vehicles, Light infantry including riflemen, heavy machine gunners, grenadiers and snipers are being reeled in to limit certain aspects of that warfare. Limiting it down to a light infantry close combat game. i have yet to see a tank rolling into the Gallente research socket and standing a chance. Sniping or attacking from the air is improbable unless you have the isk to support it.
Don't limit the multi levels of war in this game to cater to one certain type of playing style. It's fairly well known that campers are hated by all. As a sniper i love campers, easy kills or "no skill required" kills, but in my opinion its a part of warfare and this game simulates that type of activity. Nobody complains about the shotgunner that camps an objective waiting for an unknowing hacker to begin his/her hack before he one shots them in the back. These are things that we instead of limiting should learn to defeat, the same goes for the sniper we learn to get the advantage. I feel the new sockets take the guess work and the the whole idea of long range attacks out of the game. If long range attacks are becoming obsolete then so are those that live by them.
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Dimitri Rascolovitch
The Immortal Knights
43
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Posted - 2013.09.18 23:51:00 -
[191] - Quote
Poonmunch wrote:ShinyJay wrote:Poonmunch wrote:ShinyJay wrote:what should be done though is to give the sniper rifle itself some sort of buff in terms of damage, clip size, RoF or minus sway penalty, but only one from that list, not all or some. or what they could do is make weapons customizable in this game as to allow different set up even with same weapons I disagree. I don't need a buff. I just need maps/slots that I can do something useful on. Munch anywhere can be useful, just have to look at where the battle is at, at the given time. snipers just don't want to move from there perch. I move around all game. I snipe, I hack, I scout. Munch
what i believe this guy to mean is most bad "snipers", ya know the ones who find a perch and stay there the whole game even after being killed there a time or two. The kind that call themselves good snipers just because they have a high kdr, and are visible on the top 10 in the kill board near the end. the ones that are usually very useless in terms of objective based play
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Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
388
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Posted - 2013.09.19 02:49:00 -
[192] - Quote
Double post.
Munch |
Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
388
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Posted - 2013.09.19 02:50:00 -
[193] - Quote
Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote:what i believe this guy to mean is most bad "snipers", ya know the ones who find a perch and stay there the whole game even after being killed there a time or two. The kind that call themselves good snipers just because they have a high kdr, and are visible on the top 10 in the kill board near the end. the ones that are usually very useless in terms of objective based play
I agree with you. Stationary snipers are often not "good" snipers if they don't take time to watch what is going on and try to help their team. They need to do a few other things:
Cover an objective, so your team can hack it.
Cover a medic, so he can heal your teammates.
Counter-snipe. Oh, baby! SO ... MUCH ... FUN.
Hack anything and everything.
Scout. Talk to your team on comms.
Cover an objective your team owns to stop the reds from hacking it.
Take out red squad leaders.
Get inside red guy's heads, so they are afraid to run across that open ground to do a hack.
Tear the shields and armour off reds, so your team can kill them off.
Snipe the downed reds, so they can't be revived. You get no WP for this.
Snipe drop uplinks, so the reds can't spawn behind the lines.
Lay down some REs, so the reds can fly through the air. Booby traps here, there and everywhere.
Snipe red medics as they heal downed reds. Then snipe the guy he was healing when he staggers back to life.
Lock down enemy movements by sniping at choke points.
Cover that poor, lone SOB trying to solo hack a red objective way, way behind the lines. I'm his best friend in a hostile, lonely world and he doesn't even know my name.
Throw down drop uplinks.
If you do it carefully you can snipe waist gunners out of dropships.
Snipe the reds so much that they get mad and load a bunch of guys into a clown car to go looking for you. You can pull 3 reds out of CQC if you do this right. You might even live if you are quick on your feet.
You can't do this if you are sitting on your butt, roasting marshmallows.
Get up and move around.
Munch |
Duran Lex
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
298
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Posted - 2013.09.19 03:02:00 -
[194] - Quote
After page 5 of reading the same ****....
I havn't heard a single one of my scout dropsuit friends, who uses a sniper rifle as their primary weapon. Who don't play ambush matches...because that's a silly place for a "sniper" to be, all love the new maps. I'll hand the keyboard over now.
"Usually the entire game i can sit near the redline on top of a mountain, and peg people left and right since the rendering is so terrible, they have a hard time seeing me and usually can't even tell where my bullets are coming from. I can't do that anymore. I have to watch the flow of battle, and anticipate where the largest concentration of enemies are to then decide where i am going to snipe from.
At first i hated it. I couldn't find anywhere to snipe without someone coming up on me with an AR and destroying me. But after a few games, i started learning the new map sockets. I started getting a feel of where i should be sniping, based on the layout of these new map sockets and where the tide is flowing. I havn't had this much fun sniping in Dust514 ever. My optimal sniping locations change consistently throughout the game, and i get the pleasure of actually taking part in the battle by paying attention to these shifts in enemy gameplay.
I feel like I'm part of the actual team, watching and acting appropriately instead of just sitting in the backround waiting for enemies to pop into view. I've also started leveling a sidearm (SMG) in case i come upon a enemy while changing location, because its actually needed now. I HAVE to do more then just sit still. i have to participate in the battle just like everyone else. As i stated earlier, at first it was a deterrent, but after i learned the new socket layouts, it simply gave me more options to choose from to excel at my gameplay. I try and cap out every week now, something I've never cared for since playing 4 months ago."
Long i know, but he had a lot to say...apparently. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4064
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 04:37:00 -
[195] - Quote
Poonmunch wrote:I agree with you. Stationary snipers are often not "good" snipers if they don't take time to watch what is going on and try to help their team. They need to do a few other things:
Oh? This looks like a long list, so I'l just pick the point that need mentioning.
Quote:Cover a medic, so he can heal your teammates.
If you're doing this, and your team isn't redlining the enemy, you're not going to be very productive as a stationary sniper outside of Ambush
Quote:Counter-snipe. Oh, baby! SO ... MUCH ... FUN.
If you're a stationary sniper counter-sniping, you're not counter-sniping, you're spawn-camping at long range.
Quote:Hack anything and everything.
If you're moving around to hack everything, you're not a stationary sniper.
Quote:Throw down drop uplinks.
It's VERY rare that a stationary sniper is actually useful when doing this. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4064
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 04:41:00 -
[196] - Quote
Quote:Cover that poor, lone SOB trying to solo hack a red objective way, way behind the lines. I'm his best friend in a hostile, lonely world and he doesn't even know my name.
Whether it's a stationary sniper doing this or not, I always appreciate when I'm flanking/behind enemy lines and that one guy who spotted me has his head exploded before he can get rid of me. I may not have a clue who you are, but I value your timing and the fact that you saved my life - even if some idiots might complain that you "stole" their (or someone else's) kill.
Best example I've seen of the latter was someone else trying to speak for me. I was a Shotgun Scout sneaking around a building to get behind the enemy team, but a Heavy just happened to look the wrong way at the wrong time and see me coming. I barely made it back around the corner with 5 armour left, and my shields were (obviously) gone. I was at about 10 armour and my shields had just started regenerating when the Heavy turned the corner, taking a shotgun blast to the face, but JUST before he opened up on me again, his head exploded. Then the random idiot on the mic yelled "WTF? WHY DID YOU STEAL THAT GUY'S KILL. SNIPERS ARE SUCH (censored)s!" - That guy got a very unfriendly response from me, and the sniper got a sincere "thank you" for saving me.
Quote:You can't do this if you are sitting on your butt, roasting marshmallows.
Get up and move around.
And once again, this is kind of the exact opposite of what "stationary" means. |
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