People use the AR because it is familiar. Not OP. if it was op nobody would use the scrambler rifle.

'Cept CCP can't do that it's AR 514 afterall.

(at) Meeko Fent

From yesterday my deaths was like:

10 Sniper rifle
7 SR
5-6 TANK/blaster
5 LAV-bump
5 AR
4 OB
2 RAIL/Instalation
2 LASER
2 MD
1 HMG

NERF SNIPERS!!! TANKS! OB!! (joke) .... wait where are AR? No flylock ?

1. AR was nerfed enough.
2. Looking at all (yours list) I will be sugest nerf rocks... there are plenty of it... and I cant climb on them.

Just leave the damn A.R.s alone; stop nerfing ****.

CCP needs to sorely BUFF the other weapons.

Funny how AR users want everything nerfed, but when the mob brings pitchforks and torches to their doors, they want equality.

Terrain glitches... heh, nerf the rocks!

Then, after the inevitable cries of apocalypse, we would see weapon usages balance out to something more reasonable. Even then, we would probably have ARs being the most dominant, but it wouldn't be the "one weapon to rule them all" like it is now.

Actually the plasma rifle doesn't fit its description, it is supposed to have high damage but low range similar to a modern day smg. To balance it, it should have its range lowered by 25-35% and DPS increased by 15-30%, this could be by increasing both damage or rate of fire. The other rifles should be low damage high range, so it ends up being Gallente High damage low range, Minmatar med damage med range, Amarr low damage high range, Caldari lowest damage highest range. Also the weapon system should be changed to unlock weapons of the same type, not specific weapons like the assault rifle skill should unlock all automatic rifles not just the Gallente rifle. That way the ASCR is affected by assault rifle skills and it is a easy alternative to the AR.

Its an assault rifle.

...ASSAULT RIFLE

Literally THE most common infantry weapon. Complaining about AR spam in DUST, you might as well complain about AR in every armed force in the world.

It's just not fair I tell you, nearly every US soldier being equipped with an M4!

The army should nerf the M4 so it shoots rainbows, and force soldiers to use other more ridiculous weapons.

I can't even believe people complain about spam, from what is SUPPOSED to be the most common weapon on the field.

Its optimal range is 45 so 40 range is nothing, what should happen is that its optimal range remain the same or dropped to 35 and its max range drops to 65, and increasing its DPS so it is more of a SMG/AR hybrid. Then increasing the ranges of the next tiered weapon to be 45/75, then 55/85, and lastly 65/95 and their dps increasing in an inverse order to the the range increase. Also high DPS does not mean high damage, just high damage output depending on how the DPS is calculated*.

Let me make some clarifying statements.

What he says is absolutely true. The point of every other weapon system is to support the rifleman. Modern militaries wouldn't equip everyone with LMGs or HMGs if they could, because they're all support weaponry. The idea behind them is to suppress the enemy (keep their heads down so they can't shoot back) while the AR people maneuver to destroy them. Grenade launchers are made to deny the enemy an advantageous firing position, artillery is to destroy vehicles or infantry in the open, air support is to provide a unique vantage point to cover the movements of the infantry. Every single job in the military is either being in the infantry, or being in support of it.

ARs are imbalanced currently, and weapons as a whole need a looking at, but the AR should be the most used weapon on the battlefield. All other systems, and I mean ALL of them, should be in support of them. Mass drivers provide foot-mobile area denial systems, snipers provide a different vantage point to engage entrenched enemies, tanks provide anti-vehicle and anti-infantry support, dropships provide transportation and limited air support. The other weapons should be viable in providing support, but at the end of the day, the AR should be the one completing the mission, whether its to destroy the enemy or capture the objective. That's his job, everyone else's is to make his job that much easier, or harder if you're on the opposing forces.

By no means should the AR be the end-all be-all weapon that dominates all others at everything. They shouldn't be. But all other weapons should be made to support the AR, not take it's place.

I agree that every gun should be fun and unique in its own way. But the combat doctrine of RL hasn't changed much since we began having wars. Naturally, the weapons and tactics have changed as we have progressed, but it has always been one unit is the main effort, and the other units support them.

Romans used the legionnaires as their main effort, with the auxillia to protect their flanks from cavalry, had their own cavalry to break up the enemies formation, archers to provide ranged support, and catapults to assault fortified structures. But in the end, the infantry was the rock the other units moved themselves off of, either supporting the infantry's assault or protecting them from the enemy's assault.

To this end, each weapon should bring the flavor of the race it comes from. The plasma Launcher should be unique and perform differently from the Swarm Launcher. But there function should be the same: to destroy enemy vehicles so that the AR people can assault the objective.

In this, I agree with you. An AR beating a shotgun at CQC is ridiculous, and SMGs and HMGs should get a buff to make them shine in their roles. One of the big issues is that we don't have all the racial weapons and vehicles out yet. Once we have all the weapons then balancing them out will be easier, and adding in new weapons will be easier as long as each race gets their version of it.

Honestly making a weapon worthless to force players to use different weapons to increase "diversity" of weapon is just stupid. I could go into how stupid it is but as we saw with yesterday debate.........you have no logical reasoning to stand on. You just want to limit peoples options so that you can see different weapons on the kill feed.

Also I love how everyone complains about the ARs desite the ASCR being better in every way. I drop heavies alot faster with my ASCR than I did with the AR.

it takes me half as long to kill a target with a gek as it does to kill a target with an hmg. and the range doesn't really make any diffference between the two.

This is not enough data to form an accurate representation of gun usage, only a loose assumption. Also, recording kills completely ignores kill assists. Weapons such as the mass driver and scrambler rifle are less likely to deal a killing blow than an AR. Snipers often wing people only to have another merc finish off their target. Your analysis is too flawed.

Not to mention all the other weapons have not been released yet. Its siily to even talk about balance or over use at this point

Well the even though the AR is a short range weapon it does not mean its range should be smaller than the SMG which is a short-mid range weapon. The perfect range for the AR and lets say the Combat rifle would be having the AR max range right in between the optimal and max range of the Combat rifle, that way the combat rifle can perform well within those ranges but outgun the AR outside of the ARs range, and then follow this pattern for the rest of the weapons. Here are some numbers AR 35/65, Combat rifle 45/75, Scrambler 55/85, and Rail rifle 65/75. With this in mind the AR should have 23% higher DPS than the Combat rifle, 37% than the SCR, 47% than the Rail. Keep in mind DPS =/= high damage, this means the rail rifle will have the highest damage but the lowest clip and ROF.

Except the range for the rail rifle was wrong :P

Actually, for the record, it's 38 matches not counting the PC data, and more than 4200 kills total. If you ignore the sniper rifle kills for a moment, you will see that the AR kills amount to roughly all other weapons combined that are available to light/medium dropsuits. This means that out of the 14 available weapons to all classes, the AR kills amount to roughly the same as 11 of those weapons combined.

This is what I mean by AR 514.

It's illogical to compare this game to any arena style shooter. Gun usage comparisons are only valid if they're tied to other Loadout or Class based shooters.

When CCP adapts game design of suits for its use, there's a problem!

1. AR was nerfed enough.

Here :

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92678

And here :

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94246

In a RPG the classes would go;
Logi = Support (Medic / buffer)
Scout = Rogue (debuffer/assassin)
Heavy = Tank (team guardian)
Assault = DPS (damage dealer)

Armed with an assault rifle you would be able to do just that... deal damage.
I specced into SMG and Knives and actually prefer to help the team without engaging in combat (hack, uplinks, destroy equipment) but when I do it's usually the flaylocks, MD, and shotgunners that kill me... not the AR. And this is when I decide to charge whole groups head on out of sheer boredom (only rocking STD gear)!

Yea a lot of people use them... so f****** what!? If the weapon was OP then that's one thing, but your qqing about it being too dam popular! WTF man!? DUST has enough things that need to be done then to worry about a d*** popularity contest! When DUST gets to were it needs to be THEN you can qq about weapons being too comfortable as nobody would really give a d***.

Added & fixed

Decrease the clip size of the Assault scrambler rifle also.

So let me get this straight: You took data from 4 skirmish games you played on a single day and you really think this data is as accurate as CCPs data, which is from every single Dust-game ever played? Nice try, yeah, but I can't take data like that seriously.

Do this for maybe 100 matches a day and over a time of at least one month (due to the patch rhythm). Then we talk.

Here :

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92678

And here :

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94246

Your an idiot...yes the AR was nerfed

keep it simple... cut mag to 40... thats all

Your thoughts are interesting I will give you that but the 40 round mag......well that would work if you also lowered the reload time. With a high reload time on the AR (and with the hit detection issues) it takes about 30-40 rounds for 1 kill alot of times....not always but alot of the times it does. I would be hard pressed to reduce their mag size and not give them at least a slightly faster reload time.

The weapon we call the AR has no real life analog.

The real life AR uses an intermediate power cartridge that's good for taking down lightly armored infantry at range in the hands of a skilled marksman.

The Dust 514 AR lets out a stream of plasma desgined to rip trough anything that's close enough.

The Gallente AR should be the best SMG in the game. it's efficacy at range should be an issue with the gun.

What the game needs more than any buff/nerf is racial symmetry. once all the other racial rifles are in place then we can actually get some semblance of balance.

He is a GAYLOCKER

not trolling... just curious what you are getting at or the point of this post. is it in response to something?

ah.... kinda agree... but there are questions i guess... is it a blaster or rail? aren't the sniper rifles the rail rifles? gallente are kinda complicated at what their ground specialty would be since in the lore of new eden, they specialize in electronic warfare and use hybrid weapons...

EDIT: forgot to add... i think that minmatar rifles should be the single shot, since SMG covers the short range projectile weapon... single shot long range, SMG is autocannon equivalent right? or is SMG a hybrid? i dont have dust on so cant read discription

-right... but the sniper rifle is a rail, correct? AR is the short range for the race
-SMG is short range for minnie, so long range rifle would be similar to TAC yes?
-amarr has scrambler stuff, their long range is laser rifle
-gallente use other races' weapons but usually compensate with a either a good tank or good bonuses to support therefore they would not have a race rifle but get other stuff instead

i know this may be off topic, but im just trying to stick to the new eden lore

Ugh, another Edit: just throwing ideas... not arguing...

Current reload time for the AR is 3.0 so um......3.25 is not a buff (LOL)

No I was thinking (if the only change to the ASCR is faster overheating) then the AR reload time should be brought down to a maximum of 2.5 (same as the ASCR)....and depending on how strong the overheating mechanic is for the ASCR and how many rounds the keep in their mag......possibly down to 2.0.

Edit: In fact on reviewing this I would say if the reload time for the AR was to be 2.5 and the scrambler only got a slight nerf in the OH mechanic then the ASCR reload time should be brought up to 3.0 seconds instead of 2.5.

The ar is overused not op
There is a difference

Saying it's op just because you die from it more frequently than not doesn't make it op
It just means people find it reliable in it's role of infantry suppression
Scr and ascr are amazing weapons in the right hands (I would know I have prof 5 in both ar and scr)
I do agree with the a balance though.....but for now feel my wrath!

Once all the rifles are available, there needs to be a militia version available with each racial variant included on starter fits so that new players aren't funneled into using the Gallente rifle.

The only, I repeat ONLY way to stop a.r. spam is to make militia variants of scrambler rifles and/or laser rifles.

The only result of a nerf on the a.r. would be current players investing in scramblers amd lasers and newbs rage quiting because the other weapons are now o.p. and dust would not have a growing player base

Also look at the k/d of ar users it will in no way be greater than any other weapons