Crutch much?

(1)MD's can be suppressed long enough to get up to them by a teammate with a TAC AR or Imperial SCR. MD's function as force multipliers on the field and inherently don't have a 1v1 solution to them. Thats kind of the point of tactical shooters not everything has a 1:1 solution nor should it.(2) For arena battles in small map small number situations fine there is a point to be made.
But in 16 v16 HTFU and come up with counters. I hear squashing a MD with a Dropship is quite effective too.

So I have a question..just because I stayed with the Imp tag makes you think I suck and can't get into any good corps? What would make you think that?

Awe, did Ragenum get killed by a Mass Driver? Poor baby.

Was that the game where we were dicking off at the beginning? Someone said teamplayers so I took off ran you over then went assault because I wanted to win but hey you guys are pretty damn good

Nerf ALL splash.
Gernades are too strong. Most MD players camp hard on roofs or sit back and cook fluxes. Less shots will nerf the roof campers, but just make the ground campers play even *****ier.

Nerf fluxes and it will be legit. Make gernades consume double the nanohive clusters they do now, and have all gernades capped out at 2 (Except for contact. 1 is probably fine, if not 0)

actually its entirely more entertaining when someone claims a team victory as their own.

Then takes it a step further and uses their victory by association to qualify all further comments of their own, and as a resource for discrediting all other opinions.

Your rationale for stating that the Mass Driver is a Noob Tube is non-existent, give reasons not rhetoric.

@Billi Gene

Why don't you attack Teamplayers and see what happens

Why the **** are there so many **** threads about nerfing one ******* weapon or another?

The ******* MD is balanced.
The Flaylock got ******* better.
The HMG is still crap.
The FG got nerfed & is gonna get hit again.
Laser rifles? you can walk right up to 'em and *****-slap them.
H.A.V.s are getting nerfed.
Nova Knives got nerfed (Seriously, WTF?).
Shotguns got nerfed.
Need I go on?

lol.. I'm sure Reg can defend his words without a sidekick Zit :)

Why does a Mass Driver need 6 shots? Why does the Assault Rifle need 60?

Same answer.

i agree with everything said here, but the Forge Gun is a hard problem being that its a heavy weapon, limited to the heavy suit.

Nerfing the Forge Gun against infantry significantly lowers the survival of that fitting. I very seriously think that people just need to htfu and learn the angles to attack each tower type from as regards sniper rifles.

The MD suffers from an incredibly low ammo count, even with skills. Sitting on a hive will only get you so far with it. Given that height is premium for any MD range is not, MD must/should flee when presented with a dedicated opponent at longer range, there is just no reliable manner to counter this with a MD.

Hence the MD spam for tight interior maps.

I'll admit, HMGs aren't too bad. Have you looked at the Laser Rifles stats?....
Nova Knives are fine; point is, they got nerfed. Shotguns need better sight actually.... and hit detection. Forge Gunners have a bad reticule so, you have to be extremely careful when aiming, other wise you just waste ammo since its unlikely that you'll actually kill anyone with splash damage. Just please try weapons out before you decide if they have skill or no skill; I create Alts to test out different weapons and builds to see if they're really as OP as people say they are. Also, explosives do 1.2x damage to armor; armor tanking in general needs a buff; much like H.A.V.s. I got nothing to say about the Flaylock.

So someone built their fit around making their primary weapon most effective?

So thinking is OP now?

Who the **** said FGs were an AV weapon?

DESCRIPTION



Adapted from Deep Core Mining Inc.GÇÖs proprietary technology, the DCMA S-1 subverts conventional expectations of what a man-portable anti-material weapons platform is capable of. Despite its excessive weight and extended recharge times, the GÇ£Forge GunGÇ¥ as it has become known, is regarded as the most devastating infantry weapon on the battlefield, and an invaluable tool for those capable of wielding it.

Powered by a Gemini microcapacitor, the Forge Gun utilizes a stored electric charge to fire kinetic slugs at speeds in excess of 7,000 m/s, enough to penetrate even augmented armor systems. During the pre-fire charge, the forward armature locks into position, stabilizing the magnetic field and helping to shield the user from backscatter and the excessive heat produced. Power generation remains the single largest drawback of the current design, the onboard capacitor requiring a significant amount of time to reach full power after each discharge.
Specifications

Race: Caldari
Designation: DCMA S-1
Variant: Standard
Length: 135cm
Weight (loaded): 58.4kg
Weight (unloaded): 55.1kg
Max. effective range: 1,200m
Ammunition: Solid-state

And yet, the max effective range is 300m...

Swarms are a light weapon, so they are anyones KITTEN. They Don't require the slowest suit ingame to fit them, in closed beta i had a scout suit swarm fit, to troll tanks with.

The FG has a low ammo count/low clip size, the suit that fits it has no equipment slot, so when you see a FG on a tower, you aren't looking at the work of a single player.... and more often than not, by taking myself out of the battle and finding the best angle to cover the tower from i can force the heavy to abandon their tower 9 times out of 10, getting a kill on them is great, but not necessary.


MD is crazy good, but so are most weapon systems when used appropriately.

Assault Scrambler Rifle is my current fave :P even if it isn't ideal for armor, most of the time i only have to rip shields to force a retreat.

because in a team game, numbers matter....

I've never once played against you, so how would you know?

Although I will agree I am not the best player, but I can tell you this, it is MUCH easier to get AR kills than MD kills. I've been using an alt for the last week or two, speced into adv MD's, and it isn't as easy as you think it is. I used to think they were noobtubes too, until I actually used them. It's possible I am just too accustomed to AR's since I have been using them exclusively in this game for about a year now, but even so, using the MD isn't a cake-walk.

It greatly depends on the player and how they play, but going from a point and click weapon like an AR to a MD is a big difference. MD is highly situational, but the AR is good in every situation except long range.

Every time I use my MD, a thought crosses my mind "Killing that person, or persons, would have been easy if I was using my AR".

are you doing this inside installations or out in the open?

Ive camped on crosswalks and rained death from above, and been almost entirely ignored by the pub proto-spammers below...was hilarious :P, wasnt wearing anything above ADV :P... and nothing on my adv suits are stacked, cause it messes up my numbers for restocking :P

any ways my point being, the MD is an area denial system. If it took a hit to damage, then it cant be any worse then it was in early/mid chromosome, and i was happy with the assault variant THEN.... on a Logi suit no less :P, because i used the system for what it was designed for... area denial and terror tactics.

So talk the talk... give solid reasons and not hyperbole and ill jump right on the band wagon... but nuff of the forum warriors bullKITTEN, who the KITTEN tries to shout down everyone but themselves... in a conversation?

MD Explosion and smoke from said explosion makes it very hard to aim at the attacker. So, maybe the answer is "Getting hit by explosion spam."

You know that the TAC AR has enough range to make short work of a MD user by staying at such a range that it can be quite difficult to effectively lob rounds in?

You could have a whole squad running the setup you described, and they would still get blasted by a flux and a core locus grenade thrown by two guys.

On my heavy I pack fluxes just for groups of infantry that go shield tanking.

Complaining about someone using a flux and an armor biased weapon is ridiculous. Might as well just ask for all grenades to be removed from the game at that point.

Perhaps I was a little TOO vague in my answer. What I was getting at was that "People Miss". The only "real" problem that can be argued regarding a Mass Driver is that the Direct Damage of non-breach mass Drivers is slightly too high. Most people however, don't rely on the Direct damage and instead use the Splash to either surpress a large group of enemies or, in some cases hit targets that don't require many hits, but much accuracy (see scouts).

Mass Drivers have clear cut weaknesses that make them an extremely difficult weapon to use. A skilled player can overcome many of those weaknesses through sheer amounts of practice and talent but the weapon remains mostly situational. Using a Basic Mass Driver it takes roughly 2-3 shots to kill a scout of the same level, assuming of course that each shot hits. This is, in my opinion, acceptable because scouts are extremely fast and agile opponents with little HP and the Mass Driver is a natural counter to it's defenses.

An Armor Assault/Logi takes about 3-4 shots, again assuming all shots splash. Armor Assaults have higher Armor Value's than scouts but still go down pretty quick after the shields are gone thanks to the natural damage buff vs. armor that explosive rounds have. (which I think might be a little high.)

A Shield Assault/Logi takes about 3-5 shots, which is a lot more variable because of the Shield Tank vs. Damage output that comes from reliance on High Slots.

A Heavy takes 5-7 shots, all splash, depending on how Shield Tanked their suit is. Naturally that number can be augmented with direct hits on the Heavies body, larger and slower mass makes easier target, but again this is assuming all splash. Which means that in some cases the Mass Driver would need to FULLY reload in order to kill a well Shield Tanked Heavy.

This is based on my Experience using a Mass Driver WITHOUT Damage Mods. If you got insta-murdered by a Mass Driver then chances are he either landed a direct hit, is stacking Damage Mods (usually the case with Armor Assault Suits, since they don't need the High Slots for much.) or maybe both.

If you take into account the mass drivers weaknesses regarding fire rate, reload speed, and terrain. You can surmise that the reason it has 6 shots instead of 4 is so that you can actually defend yourself. There are times where using a Mass Driver, if you miss your target once and have to reload, your as good as dead. If the Mass Driver was limited to 4 shots, killing someone with it, in fair combat or otherwise, would be extremely difficult to the point of being under powered.

At least that's my Synopsis.

Keep the faith.

i see no difference, between using your analogy on the MD than using it on Swarms. Apart from the obvious fact that swarms only affect tanks and that tanks are almost never popular with infantry.

Yes using the MD proficiently takes skill, using it as a FotM for tight ambush style fights is more akin to Spray an Pray, especially when a red knows to close the gap.

Limiting the Clip size or ammo count would in my opinion, nerf the system to near uselessness. I'd much rather see a splash damage nerf (and if possible, a radius increase :P).

I'm actually fine with not killing players and instead fighting for position and advantage, something which an area denial/terror weapon is quite handy for.

Sounds like you got "suppressed". There's always "that guy" doing "that thing" that annoys you when you try to hack an objective when he kills you. The situation you've described is no different than a Sniper or Forge Gun "Suppressing" an objective from atop a tower and they're MUCH harder to get rid of than a Mass Driver.

P.S. I support the implementation of an anti shield grenade that can kill.

Keep the faith.

Fluxes and Core locus both come with three. Considering that those two people can wipe out however many people you want to cram into the blast radius of the core locus, complaining about the use of a flux and MD seems needless. It would seem that at least some of the issue stems from the manner in which certain squads role, all jammed together so they can focus fire on their targets. The MD prevents this by forcing squads to spread out. Tactics at its finest.

As to the anecdote of the match, why not grab a sniper rifle and dome the guy? If he was sitting up on a roof, he could have been pegged by tank, forge, sniper, or attacked by dropship. With that many counters, it seems a stretch to be complaining. Also, at that range he was not throwing fluxes, so shield tankers would have been needing at least 3 splashes to get through the shields, so it isn't like you couldn't GTFO in time. It was just a tactical error that allowed him to stay up there. He only had impunity because you refuse to do what was obvious to kill him. Thats on you, not him.

It actually does have a limited range ( shot a long shot at a dropship that should have hit but the round exploded before connection... I think.) it's just ridiculously long. How would CCP justify the falloff though? and then to what degree? the Mass Driver wasn't meant to be a Short Range Weapon, and it's only usable at long range by the EXTREMELY skilled.

Thats false, and you would know if had actually used a MD

I'm not fishing through 9 pages to find a story about why you failed to use any of the many options at your disposal to counter what was obviously a threat.

You allowed someone with an area of effect weapon to bombard a point. You had options available, but chose none of them.

The FG problem was created by AR users who demanded that the HMG have the range of a baseball and the initial accuracy of an epileptic performing brain surgery with a hammer. You forced them onto the heights, now you want them back on the ground to outrange and massacre.

This MD QQ is pretty much the same. You seemingly want to be able to run in a tightly packed squad, focusing your fire on solo enemies with impunity. Because splash weapons counter this horde tactic, it has to go.

That happens when any weapon hits you, it's just more noticeable when your hit by something with a much more impact like a Mass Driver, Grenade, Plasma Cannon, or Forge Gun.

You know, you can always change up your strategy. Don't engage a MD head on if they have a height advantage, count the rounds and rush them when they reload, use a TAC AR to wreck them at a range, try to get a height advantage, don't hide in the corner... all these different tactics are viable and fun because the MD for forces you to do something different than goin full Rambo with your 60 round plasma hose that's still the best all around weapon in the game. Seriously, I put the MD down to appease a QQer in my squad, complaining that I didn't deserve my "cheap" kills and pulled out an Exile with 0 sp. Did you know these things are hit scan, have almost 0 recoil and nonexistent dispersion? I barely had to ADS because it was so easy. Only thing I couldn't go toe-to-toe with were Duvolles inside 40m. Only noob tube I see in dust has 60 rounds in the clip. ****ing easy mode if you ask me...

everything else aside... because i'm off for dinner, and all that , and yes discussion sometimes needs things ....discussed... but all that aside..

you didnt find "The FG problem was created by AR users who demanded that the HMG have the range of a baseball and the initial accuracy of an epileptic performing brain surgery with a hammer." funny??????

lol'd irl +1

Probably because there's 4500 players on average and I don't play when I'm capped. Hope you're not trying to use not seeing me as leverage in in argument because its pretty sad.

Does the AR really need 60 shots? I say it goes down to 35, which is a total of roughly 1260 damage (which is about the average damage a MD does with 6 shots with some splash and some direct).