So I did some math and am still working on what each weapon's round is worth. However in the interest of getting some more people out there with these healing hives I'll share my findings.

Basically, I did some math to find that healing hives do about 6.6 armor HP healing per nanite cluster. This means that each respective healing hive module contains the below potential armor HP. This is the total amount per equipped module, not in each hive. But basically I think there is about 6.6 HP that comes per cluster.

Compact: 165 HP
K17/D: 950 HP
Allotek: 1425 HP
Wiyrkomi: 2000 HP

Naturally, some of them will also give some ammo, and therefore lose a bit of clusters to them. Also, I only experimented with a fit with both regular plates and reactive plates on an amarr logistics suit. I think there could be a small possibility that reactive plates or suit type could affect the nanite cluster cost.

If anyone would like to help with this project let me know. You just drop hives, and count the amount of ammo/HP dispensed until it is depleted. You should do it in a place where you won't be disrupted.

Both the proto and adv versions have the same number of clusters. So how is it that you are getting more hp with them?

I would imagine its a certain number of clusters for each second you are getting repaired rather than hp/cluster

Specialized variants. Wiyrkomi Triage only heals, doesnt give ammo.

"Where is Blam"

So I did some math and am still working on what each weapon's round is worth. However in the interest of getting some more people out there with these healing hives I'll share my findings.

Basically, I did some math to find that healing hives do about 6.6 armor HP healing per nanite cluster. This means that each respective healing hive module contains the below potential armor HP. This is the total amount per equipped module, not in each hive. But basically I think there is about 6.6 HP that comes per cluster.

Compact: 165 HP
K17/D: 950 HP
Allotek: 1425 HP
Wiyrkomi: 2000 HP

Naturally, some of them will also give some ammo, and therefore lose a bit of clusters to them. Also, I only experimented with a fit with both regular plates and reactive plates on an amarr logistics suit. I think there could be a small possibility that reactive plates or suit type could affect the nanite cluster cost.

If anyone would like to help with this project let me know. You just drop hives, and count the amount of ammo/HP dispensed until it is depleted. You should do it in a place where you won't be disrupted.

Its more than 165 hp for the compact as I run a militia fit with over 200 armor and a single compact will heal me to full health and still be active.

Will test some more and post numbers but beware as I most times just run militia/starter fits.

Yeah the main reason they increase is because both there are more hives per equipped module, and more clusters in the Wirykomi

Like I said, same clusters in both proto and adv, that being 72. if you just heal from both hives you "should" get the same hp based on your logic of 6hp a cluster. That's why I think it's based on number of repairs since triage version repairs more hp per second.

Beren if you have the capability I'd also suggest testing efficiency at center of hive and at the edge of the hive (with a second player confirming location). I would be doubtful but if you get any irregularities this could be the case. The only other thing I could think is shield level interfereing but I find that doubtful.

This is very interesting stuff, thank you.

So I did some math and am still working on what each weapon's round is worth. However in the interest of getting some more people out there with these healing hives I'll share my findings.

Basically, I did some math to initially find that healing hives do about 6.6 armor HP healing per nanite cluster. However my assumptions were wrong as each hive is different. See below...

Anywho, this means that each respective healing hive module contains the below potential armor HP. This is the total amount per equipped module, not in each hive.

Compact: 350/hive in testing; 25 max clusters/hive (350 HP per module) @ 50 HP/s
K17/D: 480/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (960 HP per module) @ 20 HP/s
Allotek: 950/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (2850 HP per module) @ 40 HP/s
Wiyrkomi: 2300/hive in testing; 101 max clusters/hive (6900 HP per equipped module!) @ 70 HP/s

So not all clusters are alike...

Naturally, some of them will also give some ammo, and therefore lose a bit of clusters to them. Also, I only experimented with a fit with both regular plates and reactive plates on an amarr logistics suit. I think there could be a small possibility that reactive plates or suit type could affect the nanite cluster cost. Further testing has revealed that reactive plates don't impact repair amount/speed.

ok.. well since testing them is completely accurate is next to impossible my guess is that all of your numbers are low, well besides the compact. its just an odd ball that works differently the other three but still sort of the same, i'll explain that bit too.

first your numbers are low and they should be
1440
2880
7070

now with those number you can see that it is one HP/s(value) per cluster and well that kindof make sense.
now time for the compact its per cluster usage is 14HP=1 cluster so that would give the 350 HP, some room for error here as its not tested so it maybe per 15HP(that would give 375 which it could be)

ammo and nades have certain values which i haven't found because it depends on the weapon. AV weapons take more and nades the most but im betting that they have per tick values and AV have higher per tick values.(by tick i mean the on screen ammo give numbers)

Can you give a little more detail? Are you saying those are the numbers per module or per nanohive dropped for the K17/allotek/Wirykomi respectively? In which case, how is your math getting a unified HP/cluster?

wasn't completely done, but now i finished.

So for 7070 are you saying that's the amount of HP in a single nanohive or the whole module? I got nothing close to 7070 in a single nanohive on the wirykomi. 6900 was in the total of 3 hives. Did you actually sit on the nanohives to come up with any of this, or just do some fuzzy math to try to figure out round numbers?

I repeated my procedures 2x for each hive and got the same results. I depleted the shield/armor of a basic heavy suit to have about 15/600 armor HP. Then I stood over a hive and watched closely as my armor repaired. The broadcasted amount was always the same as what my indicator showed. The depletion rate is not random as far as I can tell.

you sure it was 3 because the numbers are uneven but fit for 2 and i would need to more math. but that per module not hive yes. i might hit this back up later but for now im sold on the idea its the HPS value=2 clusters besides the compact.

Yep. There are 3 wyrikomis that you can carry, with 2 deployed max. I was able to deplete one nanohive while dispensing 2300 HP. So 2300 x 3 = 6900. Forcing round numbers on this is just confusing me. i'm open to other interpretations if you'd do your own trails.

What you might be suggesting, it isn't clear, is that clusters could actually correspond to total healing potential DEPLOYED at one point. It may not correspond to each hive.

EDIT: I wasn't disagreeing with the amount of clusters per heal (it still could be a valid possibility), but the fact that there are 3 hives per wirykomi module (which i hate spelling btw) So each hive wasn't anywhere near 7000ish HP, but that's the odule.

t's the value of hp/s=2 cluster(might be 3).
i hate spelling it too

So you are saying the each repair cycle takes 2 or 3 clusters on each nanohive?

I would expect then for ammo to refill then in a similar way at x clusters per cycle, and different amounts of clusters maybe for each weapon class, and definitely different cluster amounts for grenades vs. guns.

Compact: 350/hive in testing; 25 max clusters/hive (350 HP per module) @ 50 HP/s
K17/D: 480/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (960 HP per module) @ 20 HP/s
Allotek: 950/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (2850 HP per module) @ 40 HP/s
Wiyrkomi: 2300/hive in testing; 101 max clusters/hive (6900 HP per equipped module!) @ 70 HP/s.

damn you all... you post interesting things that I don't understand and now I must go poke people internally so I understand.

So Wiyrkomi for example has 101 clusters and repairs 70hp/s. That should repair a total of 7,070 right? 101*70 = 7,070.
You list however 6,900. Also what do you mean by per equipped module? Per nanohive?

What I am not understanding is your first number. Are you saying that the Wiyrkomi should get 7,070 based on numbers but is only getting 2,300?

Well done on the research good sir!

damn you all... you post interesting things that I don't understand and now I must go poke people internally so I understand.

So Wiyrkomi for example has 101 clusters and repairs 70hp/s. That should repair a total of 7,070 right? 101*70 = 7,070.
You list however 6,900. Also what do you mean by per equipped module? Per nanohive?

What I am not understanding is your first number. Are you saying that the Wiyrkomi should get 7,070 based on numbers but is only getting 2,300?

Well done on the research good sir!

Almost there... We found that the Wiyrkomi (and all rep-hives) takes 3 clusters per cycle to repair. 101 clusters = 33 cycles @ 70 HP per cycle = 2310 HP (in a wierdyourkrazy nanohive). So my original numbers were pretty good on a per hive basis. I'm going to clean up my original post in a bit.

Ah talking to others your first number is a "in practice" type thing. So while the Wiyrkomi could potentially give out 7,070 HP of armor it generally gives out 2,300 because it is also replenishing ammo and grenades.

Well the wyrikomi wouldn't give out ammo. I stood on my test hives ONLY after refilling all my ammo from a supply depot. I tried to manage my control variable.

Are we saying that there are two sets of 'nanite supplies' within each hive? One for ammo and one for armor? And that you could max one out before the other? I don't think this is how it works, but I guess I could test it by nearly maxing out an allotek from armor then emptying a gun to test.

Yeah, doubt the Triage nanohive would have clusters going out to ammo/grenades BUT

a.) There is a potential bug which eats clusters for ammo/grenades but does not replenish them.
b.) The nanohive, having split cluster bases for different things, is only providing one half of its clusters for armor when it should be using all of them - hence the 2,300 approximate.

Comparing my numbers to yours (mine, yours, delta):
Compact: 416.67, 350, -66.67
K17/D: 480, 480, 0
Allotek: 960, 950, -10
Wiyrkomi: 2,300, 2,300, 0

Don't mind me, just pointing out that 2,300 is not the number you got for Wiyrkomi.

So by bringing this info to light, I'm trying to highlight how the meta, as it exists now, could evolve to quickly enhance the strength of armor tanks.

IF more people specced into proto hives (big CPU/PG sacrifice)
IF people regularly had support 'reinforcement fits' they used to pepper defensive spots when safe
IF there were regularly 5-10 healing hives surrounding hotspots

THEN armor tankers' repair rates could start to rival that of shield tankers.

With nanohives the devs have a set number for HP/cluster, ammo/cluster, and clusters/grenade, and then the higher rep rate actually depletes the nanite clusters faster, so that proto nanohives deplete their max number of clusters faster due to higher repair/rearm rate.

Are you sure about that? Hmmm that would be incredibly confusing... not that that would stop us...

Dang it, now I really don't want to wait for Shanghai to wake up and get to the office.

OR you had one guy running any sort of advanced/proto remote repper on the guy lol

I would add also, when the rail weapons start to show up, there will be a greater amount of deadly and accurate long range weapons. I would venture a guess too that the magsec SMG and Bolt pistol will basically make the gallente assault suit have the equivalent of 2 proto light weapons. When armor tankers start to realize that they are better at base defense with crap-tons of healing hives and logis, OR at long range where their strafe speed isn't as big of a deal, then armor will see its buff.

Are you sure about that? Hmmm that would be incredibly confusing... not that that would stop us...

Dang it, now I really don't want to wait for Shanghai to wake up and get to the office.

Right now, it might be a little confusing if the nanohives do in fact split their clusters between ammo and health. But the math seems to make sense for the hybrid hives like allotek to fully prioritize whatever is on them. IOW I don't think the allotek at least, 'saved' clusters that could have been used for ammo.

I was able to get 72/3 = 24 clusters worth of reps @ 40 HP per rep for 960 HP in one Allotek Hive.

Note: If we know the # of clusters used / nanohive for resupply/triage, then you can start to estimate wp/hive. That was part of the intention of this post too.

WP/hive??? What do you mean? The Warpoints you could get for healing teammates with a nanohive?

The problem is that you'll probably be repairing more HP than you will get wp for.

After a few triage cycles (5 or so) a cool down timer starts that stops you from getting/farming wp from healing. Remaining cycles won't give wp.

After a few triage cycles (5 or so) a cool down timer starts that stops you from getting/farming wp from healing. Remaining cycles won't give wp.

Any1 can help me here, maybe a dev, or some1...

Really often, my Allotek hive stop giving me ammo after a few cycles, it still gives me armor but no amo. Any1 have this too? Is this a bugg or it is that way by design?

Anyway, that is really annoying, coz it kind of happen only when u really need that fused nade to resuply to blow a guy right next to you lol.

Cheers

From what i understand...

A nano hive has a max pool of nanites... and releases a wave every cycle

That cycle can either repair or resuply, but uses the same amount of nanites for both and regardless of how much is resupplied or repaired

This is incorrect. As the discussion in this thread has already showed a cycle of armor repair actually uses 3 nanites and then different weapons have different nanite costs which hasn't even been covered in this thread.

This is incorrect. As the discussion in this thread has already showed a cycle of armor repair actually uses 3 nanites and then different weapons have different nanite costs which hasn't even been covered in this thread.

ok so what your saying is that i can only resupply my forge gun X times but my assault rifle Y times... based on the same Nano hive...?

I thought this was balalanced through the ammount of ammo given (2-3 a cycle for a FG, 60 something for AR) but you get the same ammount of cycles each...?

and on the same lines you only get X cycles repairing and Y cycles resupplying...?

ok so what your saying is that i can only resupply my forge gun X times but my assault rifle Y times... based on the same Nano hive...?

I thought this was balalanced through the ammount of ammo given (2-3 a cycle for a FG, 60 something for AR) but you get the same ammount of cycles each...?

and on the same lines you only get X cycles repairing and Y cycles resupplying...?

Keeping in mind that my understanding might be wrong, this is how I understand Nanohives to work:

• Nanohives have a store of nanites.
• The store of nanites is used to replenish armor, ammo, and grenades.
• Nanohives have a rate at which they replenish armor.
• Nanohives have a seperate rate at which they replenish ammo.
• Nanohives have a set amount of nanites used per armor repair cycle.
• Weapons and grenades have a per type set amount of nanites required to fully restore their ammo.
• Both ammo, grenades, and armor take from the same single store of nanites.

Example:
Nanohive:

• Armor repair: 0
• Ammo replenish rate: 10%
• Store of nanites: 36
• Armor repair nanite cost: 0

Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohive:

• Armor repair: 70
• Ammo replenish rate: 0%
• Store of nanites: 101
• Armor repair nanite cost: 3

Locus Grenade:

• Max ammo: 3
• Total ammo nanite cost: 24

Breach Mass Driver

• Max ammo: 18
• Total ammo nanite cost: 16

Just to give a few examples.

beautiful. Thanks

hm.. so time for testing.. im guessing nades have per cluster value of 8, making it so the advanced+ give a max of 9 of them(per hive). time for random nade tossing

tested k-2=9 nades
flaylock= 36 cycles so 2 per cluster

I don't see a grenade with k-2 in the name... what's the full name of it?

And which Nanohive are you doing this testing with?

that was the hive i used.

OK, good I am not insane.

The K-2 Nanohive has a store of 72 nanites.
The Locus Grenade should take 24 nanites to full reload and there is a max ammo of 3.

72 nanites / 24 nanite requirement = 3 full reloads
3 full relocates * 3 max ammo count = 9 grenades

All Flaylocks have an ammo refill nanite cost of 8 across the board but different max ammo counts.

I"m not sure if we are getting our terms confused here, but to me it makes sense to say "____ weapon uses ___ clusters per cycle."

However, when CCP FoxFour says that 'all flaylocks have a nanite cost of 8 across the board' that makes me wonder if this isn't the case. If it takes 8 clusters to fill any flaylock, but they all have different amounts of max ammo, then this wont be the case.

Example:

Nanohive A: Fills 10% per cycle
Nanohive B: Fills 15% per cycle
Nanohive C: Fills 20% per cycle

Weapon v.1: 200 ammo, 24 nanites to fill
Weapon v.2: 275 ammo, 24 nanites to fill

Are we saying that:

1) The database doesn't recognize the cycle cost of cluster for an ammo type, but the total fill cost for a full clip/reserve in clusters?

2) In the above scenario-

nanohive A: 10 cycles each at 2.4 clusters per cycle.
nanohive B: 7 cycles to fill @ 3.4 clusters per cycle
nanohive C it would be 5 cycles @ 4.8 clusters per cycle

In this scenario, I believe each hive is dispensing nanites per ammo at the same rate. However, this isn't how armor works. The math seems pretty certainly to go by clusters per cycle.

I"m not sure if we are getting our terms confused here, but to me it makes sense to say "____ weapon uses ___ clusters per cycle."

It appears that we say "it takes X amount of nanites to refill the weapon completely"
Lets stick with the flaylock as an example. For now I am going to completely ignore even the concept of skills and other modifiers.

The Flaylock Pistol has a mFireMode0_maxAmmoCount of 15.

It has the attribute mTotalAmmoNanitesCost, which I am taking to mean the number of nanites required to fully refill the weapon, set to 8.

Each Nanohive then has a different value for the rate at which it replenishes ammo. For the Nanohive this is 0.1, or 10%.

So if I understand the system correctly it would go something like this:
Max ammo * replenish rate = ammo restored per cycle
15 * 0.1 = 1.5 rockets restored per cycle

Total ammo nanite cost * replenish rate = nanite cost per cycle
8 * 0.1 = 0.8 nanites per cycle

I have no idea how rounding works for this, but that is how I understand it to work by just looking at the data.

the default is 21.

The default of what is 21?

flaylock max ammo

OK, good I am not insane.

WP/hive??? What do you mean? The Warpoints you could get for healing teammates with a nanohive?

the compact has 25 so a full relocates(3) is 24 then 1 cluster used to give the 4th one. seems bad when the standard also gives out 4.

Wouldn't figuring out WP per hive be tricky with the differing clusters consumed by each activity and the various cooldown timers in place on WP earnings (for both hives and repping)? I suppose we could establish max potential WP per hive and simply state that actual WP per hive will be less under battlefield conditions, plus truncated if the hive is destroyed.

It would be a very useful thing to know just seems quite 'slippery' as far as pinning it down. Or am I missing some obvious way around that?

0.02 ISK
Cross

This is incorrect. As the discussion in this thread has already showed a cycle of armor repair actually uses 3 nanites and then different weapons have different nanite costs which hasn't even been covered in this thread.

Fox is there any priority regarding how clusters are used in hives?

What I mean is "how does the hive select which service to spend clusters on first?"

I have yet to see a hive give more than one rep/ammo/nade at once, but that may be a purely UI thing in which only one is displayed at a time but it at least looks like there's only one type being given at a time and if true it suggests there is some system in place to determen which one. If not true what would it take for the UI to be updated so that it accurately reflects to the player whats transpiring in game?

Also, thank you for participating on this.

Cheers,
Cross

Forgive me if I'm having an understanding fail, I'm very tired but since when are there Locus Grenades with a max ammo capacity of 3? If memory serves Contacts are 1, anti-Infantry are 2, and AV/Flux are 3, with Locus being an anti-infantry variant.

What am I missing here?

~Cross

Yeah you're right. All we could know is the max potential. I really haven't been able to pin down how the timers work exactly. I don't know if the timers for nano-triage and repair tool triage are necessarily connected. I'm pretty sure I've seen more than 5 +25 triage messages in a row from nanohives. It's possible that each tier of nanohives has its on timers...dunno...

Looking at fitting and my grenades in battle now. I only have grenades II, but all my infantry grenades save impact grenades are a quantity of 3.

Wow, good to know. Sounds like my info there is highly outdated (or I just remembered it wrong ). Time to finish maxing my related skills so I can test them more. Thanks for the info on this.

Cheers,
Cross

ps ~ great thread, thanks again for pointing me to it.

On the topic of grenades though, I'm testing throw distance an I see no difference from one to another packed, core, impact, sleek, or regular.

Oh, you've found another whole 'kettle of fish'
It makes me wonder how grenades work within the new range system or if the code has somehow been implemented in a way that means they don't interact at all.

EDIT: What's your testing protocol for this?

Or CCP could just tell us how they coded it and list the cluster count in the item description.

Here's an additional tidbit. You can throw basic militia grenades from high ground, such as the top of those tall 'spires' and have them explode on the ground below. Perhaps the throw range is only defined by the arc of the throw + time remaining on the fuse?

It does seem odd that items described as having a higher throw range wouldn't function that way however.

0.02 ISK
Cross

In another topic, what would you think about splitting down nanohives even more into explosive/projectile/plasma/rail nanohives?

They could have the interesting effect of consolidating team strategies, maybe at a reduced fitting cost or some really good benefit.

I think if done in the vein of the repair tools with an emphasis rather than an exclusion it would be a great way to add diversity to the hive line and hopefully improve squad coordination and, to borrow a term, "fleet doctrine".

The repair tools have two rep values, one for use on vehicles and one for use on infantry. I'd take the same approach with specialist hive types. Give the hive an enhance efficiency when resupplying the "intended" type of ammo, and let it still resupply any type but take a performance hit for ammo types outside of the specialized type.

0.02 ISK
Cross

I know this topic is dead, but i could not find the answer anywhere else.

When, and Why did they change the Nanohive limit on the field? i mean. few weeks ago we could deploy 2x nanohives per nanohive equipment fitted at the same time, which means that for a gallente logi fitted with 4x nanohives, he could deploy 8 active nanohives at the same time.

Is this a new bug, or working as intended, please CCP SoxFour give a say about that.

Yeah I like that idea. The only other thing you'd need to show would be a graphic that shows the kind of hive it is then. So that's that many more things to track.

I know this topic is dead, but i could not find the answer anywhere else.

When, and Why did they change the Nanohive limit on the field? i mean. few weeks ago we could deploy 2x nanohives per nanohive equipment fitted at the same time, which means that for a gallente logi fitted with 4x nanohives, he could deploy 8 active nanohives at the same time.

Is this a new bug, or working as intended, please CCP SoxFour give a say about that.

Why do you say that? Sorry for my inability to follow along, I am a bit slow. :(

just wondering FoxFour, i know you are a DEV and all, but do you even play dust?

some of the things you say hint that you dont actually play the game

As of 8/12/2013 I was still able to employ this method, provided all nanohives deployed were of differing types I will test further to see if this has been altered.

Cross

I am 100% sure that i was able to deploy 6x alotek nanohives 3 weeks ago (2 from each module equipped)

I am 100% sure that i was able to deploy 6x alotek nanohives 3 weeks ago (2 from each module equipped)

Most importantly, regarding X-3 Quantum Hives, each cycle still consumed two clusters despite only resupplying 63 rds each. Therefore although this hive has a faster resupply rate, it actually dispenses less total ammunition than the K-2 (252 rds vs. 360 rds). I haven't yet found the sweet spot at which a partial resupply doesn't consume the last cluster, but I know it is somwhere above 41 rds.

Ah talking to others your first number is a "in practice" type thing. So while the Wiyrkomi could potentially give out 7,070 HP of armor it generally gives out 2,300 because it is also replenishing ammo and grenades.

I was playing on an alt and discovered another interesting fact about nanohive restocking. I was curious why my standard 36-cluster hives seemed to pop so quickly while using militia locus grenades, and it turns out that each grenade restock consumes 12 clusters, not the typical 8. This leads me to believe that a total restock for grenades/remotes/proxies takes 24 clusters, with the amount of clusters per each resupply dependent on the amount of the item you can actually carry.

I have not tested this since I don't have demolitions past Lvl 2, but I theorize that the prototype proximities/remotes with 4 units carried would require 6 clusters to fully restock.

Bottom line - if you can use regular locus grenades instead of militia/BPOs, then do so, as not only do you carry more of them, but they are more efficient when restocking from nanohives. The same goes for proto proxies/REs that allow you to carry more than 3 at a time, but their inherent fitting/ISK cost do not justify using them in my mind.