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ladwar
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Posted - 2013.07.18 14:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:So I did some math and am still working on what each weapon's round is worth. However in the interest of getting some more people out there with these healing hives I'll share my findings.
Basically, I did some math to initially find that healing hives do about 6.6 armor HP healing per nanite cluster. However my assumptions were wrong as each hive is different. See below...
Anywho, this means that each respective healing hive module contains the below potential armor HP. This is the total amount per equipped module, not in each hive.
Compact: 350/hive in testing; 25 max clusters/hive (350 HP per module) @ 50 HP/s K17/D: 480/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (960 HP per module) @ 20 HP/s Allotek: 950/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (2850 HP per module) @ 40 HP/s Wiyrkomi: 2300/hive in testing; 101 max clusters/hive (6900 HP per equipped module!) @ 70 HP/s
So not all clusters are alike...
Naturally, some of them will also give some ammo, and therefore lose a bit of clusters to them. Also, I only experimented with a fit with both regular plates and reactive plates on an amarr logistics suit. I think there could be a small possibility that reactive plates or suit type could affect the nanite cluster cost. Further testing has revealed that reactive plates don't impact repair amount/speed. ok.. well since testing them is completely accurate is next to impossible my guess is that all of your numbers are low, well besides the compact. its just an odd ball that works differently the other three but still sort of the same, i'll explain that bit too.
first your numbers are low and they should be 1440 2880 7070
now with those number you can see that it is one HP/s(value) per cluster and well that kindof make sense. now time for the compact its per cluster usage is 14HP=1 cluster so that would give the 350 HP, some room for error here as its not tested so it maybe per 15HP(that would give 375 which it could be) |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.07.18 15:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:ladwar wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:So I did some math and am still working on what each weapon's round is worth. However in the interest of getting some more people out there with these healing hives I'll share my findings.
Basically, I did some math to initially find that healing hives do about 6.6 armor HP healing per nanite cluster. However my assumptions were wrong as each hive is different. See below...
Anywho, this means that each respective healing hive module contains the below potential armor HP. This is the total amount per equipped module, not in each hive.
Compact: 350/hive in testing; 25 max clusters/hive (350 HP per module) @ 50 HP/s K17/D: 480/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (960 HP per module) @ 20 HP/s Allotek: 950/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (2850 HP per module) @ 40 HP/s Wiyrkomi: 2300/hive in testing; 101 max clusters/hive (6900 HP per equipped module!) @ 70 HP/s
So not all clusters are alike...
Naturally, some of them will also give some ammo, and therefore lose a bit of clusters to them. Also, I only experimented with a fit with both regular plates and reactive plates on an amarr logistics suit. I think there could be a small possibility that reactive plates or suit type could affect the nanite cluster cost. Further testing has revealed that reactive plates don't impact repair amount/speed. ok.. well since testing them is completely accurate is next to impossible my guess is that all of your numbers are low, well besides the compact. its just an odd ball that works differently the other three but still sort of the same, i'll explain that bit too. first your numbers are low and they should be 1440 2880 7070 now with those number you can see that it is one HP/s(value) per cluster and well that kindof make sense. now time for the compact its per cluster usage is 14HP=1 cluster so that would give the 350 HP, some room for error here as its not tested so it maybe per 15HP(that would give 375 which it could be) ammo and nades have certain values which i haven't found because it depends on the weapon. AV weapons take more and nades the most but im betting that they have per tick values and AV have higher per tick values.(by tick i mean the on screen ammo give numbers) Can you give a little more detail? Are you saying those are the numbers per module or per nanohive dropped for the K17/allotek/Wirykomi respectively? In which case, how is your math getting a unified HP/cluster? wasn't completely done, but now i finished. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.07.18 15:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:ladwar wrote:wasn't completely done, but now i finished. So for 7070 are you saying that's the amount of HP in a single nanohive or the whole module? I got nothing close to 7070 in a single nanohive on the wirykomi. 6900 was in the total of 3 hives. Did you actually sit on the nanohives to come up with any of this, or just do some fuzzy math to try to figure out round numbers? I repeated my procedures 2x for each hive and got the same results. I depleted the shield/armor of a basic heavy suit to have about 15/600 armor HP. Then I stood over a hive and watched closely as my armor repaired. The broadcasted amount was always the same as what my indicator showed. The depletion rate is not random as far as I can tell. you sure it was 3 because the numbers are uneven but fit for 2 and i would need to more math. but that per module not hive yes. i might hit this back up later but for now im sold on the idea its the HPS value=2 clusters besides the compact. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.07.18 15:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:ladwar wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:ladwar wrote:wasn't completely done, but now i finished. So for 7070 are you saying that's the amount of HP in a single nanohive or the whole module? I got nothing close to 7070 in a single nanohive on the wirykomi. 6900 was in the total of 3 hives. Did you actually sit on the nanohives to come up with any of this, or just do some fuzzy math to try to figure out round numbers? I repeated my procedures 2x for each hive and got the same results. I depleted the shield/armor of a basic heavy suit to have about 15/600 armor HP. Then I stood over a hive and watched closely as my armor repaired. The broadcasted amount was always the same as what my indicator showed. The depletion rate is not random as far as I can tell. you sure it was 3 because the numbers are uneven but fit for 2 and i would need to more math. but that per module not hive yes. i might hit this back up later but for now im sold on the idea its the HPS value=2 clusters besides the compact. Yep. There are 3 wyrikomis that you can carry, with 2 deployed max. I was able to deplete one nanohive while dispensing 2300 HP. So 2300 x 3 = 6900. Forcing round numbers on this is just confusing me. i'm open to other interpretations if you'd do your own trails. What you might be suggesting, it isn't clear, is that clusters could actually correspond to total healing potential DEPLOYED at one point. It may not correspond to each hive. EDIT: I wasn't disagreeing with the amount of clusters per heal (it still could be a valid possibility), but the fact that there are 3 hives per wirykomi module (which i hate spelling btw) So each hive wasn't anywhere near 7000ish HP, but that's the odule. its the value of hp/s=2 cluster(might be 3). i hate spelling it too |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.07.18 15:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:ladwar wrote: t's the value of hp/s=2 cluster(might be 3). i hate spelling it too So you are saying the each repair cycle takes 2 or 3 clusters on each nanohive? yes, even if its not a full. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.07.18 16:00:00 -
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Beren Hurin wrote:I would expect then for ammo to refill then in a similar way at x clusters per cycle, and different amounts of clusters maybe for each weapon class, and definitely different cluster amounts for grenades vs. guns. thats going to be long list but i am guessing its going to be 3clusters per resupply as well. and just on some rough numbers 10 clusters= one nade. might be 12.. i really haven't tested it a while |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.07.18 19:03:00 -
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Beren Hurin wrote:Rogatien Merc wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:So by bringing this info to light, I'm trying to highlight how the meta, as it exists now, could evolve to quickly enhance the strength of armor tanks.
IF more people specced into proto hives (big CPU/PG sacrifice) IF people regularly had support 'reinforcement fits' they used to pepper defensive spots when safe IF there were regularly 5-10 healing hives surrounding hotspots
THEN armor tankers' repair rates could start to rival that of shield tankers.
OR you had one guy running any sort of advanced/proto remote repper on the guy lol I would add also, when the rail weapons start to show up, there will be a greater amount of deadly and accurate long range weapons. I would venture a guess too that the magsec SMG and Bolt pistol will basically make the gallente assault suit have the equivalent of 2 proto light weapons. When armor tankers start to realize that they are better at base defense with crap-tons of healing hives and logis, OR at long range where their strafe speed isn't as big of a deal, then armor will see its buff. well you got dev response.. wow. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.07.18 19:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
yes.. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.07.19 16:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
hm.. so time for testing.. im guessing nades have per cluster value of 8, making it so the advanced+ give a max of 9 of them(per hive). time for random nade tossing
tested nades on K-2(9) standard(4) and compact(4). so per cluster=8 flaylock= 36 cycles so 2 per cluster, tested on k-2, standard, compact, all the same. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.07.19 16:42:00 -
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CCP FoxFour wrote:ladwar wrote:hm.. so time for testing.. im guessing nades have per cluster value of 8, making it so the advanced+ give a max of 9 of them(per hive). time for random nade tossing
tested k-2=9 nades flaylock= 36 cycles so 2 per cluster I don't see a grenade with k-2 in the name... what's the full name of it? And which Nanohive are you doing this testing with? that was the hive i used. |
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ladwar
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Posted - 2013.07.19 16:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:ladwar wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:ladwar wrote:hm.. so time for testing.. im guessing nades have per cluster value of 8, making it so the advanced+ give a max of 9 of them(per hive). time for random nade tossing
tested k-2=9 nades flaylock= 36 cycles so 2 per cluster I don't see a grenade with k-2 in the name... what's the full name of it? And which Nanohive are you doing this testing with? that was the hive i used. OK, good I am not insane. The K-2 Nanohive has a store of 72 nanites. The Locus Grenade should take 24 nanites to full reload and there is a max ammo of 3. 72 nanites / 24 nanite requirement = 3 full reloads 3 full relocates * 3 max ammo count = 9 grenades the compact has 25 so a full relocates is 24 then 1 cluster used to give the 4th one. seems bad when the standard also gives out 4. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.07.19 17:47:00 -
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Beren Hurin wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote: All Flaylocks have an ammo refill nanite cost of 8 across the board but different max ammo counts.
I"m not sure if we are getting our terms confused here, but to me it makes sense to say "____ weapon uses ___ clusters per cycle." However, when CCP FoxFour says that 'all flaylocks have a nanite cost of 8 across the board' that makes me wonder if this isn't the case. If it takes 8 clusters to fill any flaylock, but they all have different amounts of max ammo, then this wont be the case. Example: Nanohive A: Fills 10% per cycle Nanohive B: Fills 15% per cycle Nanohive C: Fills 20% per cycle Weapon v.1: 200 ammo, 24 nanites to fill Weapon v.2: 275 ammo, 24 nanites to fill Are we saying that: 1) The database doesn't recognize the cycle cost of cluster for an ammo type, but the total fill cost for a full clip/reserve in clusters? 2) In the above scenario- nanohive A: 10 cycles each at 2.4 clusters per cycle. nanohive B: 7 cycles to fill @ 3.4 clusters per cycle nanohive C it would be 5 cycles @ 4.8 clusters per cycle In this scenario, I believe each hive is dispensing nanites per ammo at the same rate. However, this isn't how armor works. The math seems pretty certainly to go by clusters per cycle. its based off of total ammo. so a flay w/o ammo increasing skills takes 8 clusters to refill 21 shots/rounds been testing this out myself. so if it restores 4 per cycle that it takes 2 clusters per cycle(because of rounding). like the compact give 6 per cycle so it cost 3 clusters per cycles and so on and a standard takes 1 cluster(because of rounding) per cycle.
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ladwar
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Posted - 2013.07.19 18:20:00 -
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CCP FoxFour wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:I"m not sure if we are getting our terms confused here, but to me it makes sense to say "____ weapon uses ___ clusters per cycle." It appears that we say "it takes X amount of nanites to refill the weapon completely" Lets stick with the flaylock as an example. For now I am going to completely ignore even the concept of skills and other modifiers. The Flaylock Pistol has a mFireMode0_maxAmmoCount of 15. It has the attribute mTotalAmmoNanitesCost, which I am taking to mean the number of nanites required to fully refill the weapon, set to 8. Each Nanohive then has a different value for the rate at which it replenishes ammo. For the Nanohive this is 0.1, or 10%. So if I understand the system correctly it would go something like this: Max ammo * replenish rate = ammo restored per cycle 15 * 0.1 = 1.5 rockets restored per cycle Total ammo nanite cost * replenish rate = nanite cost per cycle 8 * 0.1 = 0.8 nanites per cycle I have no idea how rounding works for this, but that is how I understand it to work by just looking at the data. the default is 21. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.07.19 18:23:00 -
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CCP FoxFour wrote:ladwar wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:I"m not sure if we are getting our terms confused here, but to me it makes sense to say "____ weapon uses ___ clusters per cycle." It appears that we say "it takes X amount of nanites to refill the weapon completely" Lets stick with the flaylock as an example. For now I am going to completely ignore even the concept of skills and other modifiers. The Flaylock Pistol has a mFireMode0_maxAmmoCount of 15. It has the attribute mTotalAmmoNanitesCost, which I am taking to mean the number of nanites required to fully refill the weapon, set to 8. Each Nanohive then has a different value for the rate at which it replenishes ammo. For the Nanohive this is 0.1, or 10%. So if I understand the system correctly it would go something like this: Max ammo * replenish rate = ammo restored per cycle 15 * 0.1 = 1.5 rockets restored per cycle Total ammo nanite cost * replenish rate = nanite cost per cycle 8 * 0.1 = 0.8 nanites per cycle I have no idea how rounding works for this, but that is how I understand it to work by just looking at the data. the default is 21. The default of what is 21? flaylock max ammo |
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