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Nanohive Alchemy: 6.60 HP/cluster

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 18 post(s)

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25935	Posted - 2013.07.18 18:08:00 - [1] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Compact: 350/hive in testing; 25 max clusters/hive (350 HP per module) @ 50 HP/s K17/D: 480/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (960 HP per module) @ 20 HP/s Allotek: 950/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (2850 HP per module) @ 40 HP/s Wiyrkomi: 2300/hive in testing; 101 max clusters/hive (6900 HP per equipped module!) @ 70 HP/s. damn you all... you post interesting things that I don't understand and now I must go poke people internally so I understand. So Wiyrkomi for example has 101 clusters and repairs 70hp/s. That should repair a total of 7,070 right? 101*70 = 7,070. You list however 6,900. Also what do you mean by per equipped module? Per nanohive? What I am not understanding is your first number. Are you saying that the Wiyrkomi should get 7,070 based on numbers but is only getting 2,300? Well done on the research good sir!


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25935	Posted - 2013.07.18 18:13:00 - [2] - Quote Ah talking to others your first number is a "in practice" type thing. So while the Wiyrkomi could potentially give out 7,070 HP of armor it generally gives out 2,300 because it is also replenishing ammo and grenades.


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25937	Posted - 2013.07.18 18:16:00 - [3] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Compact: 350/hive in testing; 25 max clusters/hive (350 HP per module) @ 50 HP/s K17/D: 480/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (960 HP per module) @ 20 HP/s Allotek: 950/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (2850 HP per module) @ 40 HP/s Wiyrkomi: 2300/hive in testing; 101 max clusters/hive (6900 HP per equipped module!) @ 70 HP/s. damn you all... you post interesting things that I don't understand and now I must go poke people internally so I understand. So Wiyrkomi for example has 101 clusters and repairs 70hp/s. That should repair a total of 7,070 right? 101*70 = 7,070. You list however 6,900. Also what do you mean by per equipped module? Per nanohive? What I am not understanding is your first number. Are you saying that the Wiyrkomi should get 7,070 based on numbers but is only getting 2,300? Well done on the research good sir! Almost there... We found that the Wiyrkomi (and all rep-hives) takes 3 clusters per cycle to repair. 101 clusters = 33 cycles @ 70 HP per cycle = 2310 HP (in a wierdyourkrazy nanohive). So my original numbers were pretty good on a per hive basis. I'm going to clean up my original post in a bit. AH! OK, cool this is making more and more sense and I look at data and your numbers trying to understand things. Thank you very much. :D


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25938	Posted - 2013.07.18 18:38:00 - [4] - Quote So I will poke some of the game designers in Shanghai that work on this stuff but taking a look at the data it appears there may be an attribute associated with nanohives that is along the lines of "it takes this many nanites per cycle of armor repair" the thing is however they all have it set the same... Compact: 25 max clusters @ 50 HP/s (2550=1,250) K17/D: 72 max clusters @ 20 HP/s (7220=1,440) Allotek: 72 max clusters @ 40 HP/s (7240=2,880) Wiyrkomi: 101 max clusters @ 70 HP/s (10170=7,070) I found an attribute that they all share which is set to 3. If we apply that to the above we get the following (max clusters / 3 * HP repaired): Compact: 25/350=416.67 K17/D: 72/320=480 Allotek: 72/340=960 Wiyrkomi: 101/370=2,356.67 Your testing shows the following though: Compact: 350/hive K17/D: 480/hive Allotek: 950/hive Wiyrkomi: 2,300/hive Comparing my numbers to yours (mine, yours, delta): Compact: 416.67, 350, -66.67 K17/D: 480, 480, 0 Allotek: 960, 950, -10 Wiyrkomi: 2,300, 2,300, 0 As I said, I will try and poke some people but those numbers are close enough I might call it an error in testing.


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25938	Posted - 2013.07.18 18:41:00 - [5] - Quote For the compact 72/3 is 8.33333333333 (maybe it requires 3 nanites and won't do a partial?) if we round it down to 8 we get 400 total repaired armor and a delta of -50 instead of -66.67 (which is rounded but yea). Still a variance, but a closer one. Again I have no idea what the code is actually doing, I am just inferring things like you guys but with more data to look at.


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25943	Posted - 2013.07.18 18:51:00 - [6] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Comparing my numbers to yours (mine, yours, delta): Compact: 416.67, 350, -66.67 K17/D: 480, 480, 0 Allotek: 960, 950, -10 Wiyrkomi: 2,300, 2,300, 0 Don't mind me, just pointing out that 2,300 is not the number you got for Wiyrkomi. You are of course correct and I should probably get some sleep....


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25943	Posted - 2013.07.18 18:54:00 - [7] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: With nanohives the devs have a set number for HP/cluster, ammo/cluster, and clusters/grenade, and then the higher rep rate actually depletes the nanite clusters faster, so that proto nanohives deplete their max number of clusters faster due to higher repair/rearm rate. Are you sure about that? Hmmm that would be incredibly confusing... not that that would stop us... Dang it, now I really don't want to wait for Shanghai to wake up and get to the office.


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25945	Posted - 2013.07.18 19:07:00 - [8] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: With nanohives the devs have a set number for HP/cluster, ammo/cluster, and clusters/grenade, and then the higher rep rate actually depletes the nanite clusters faster, so that proto nanohives deplete their max number of clusters faster due to higher repair/rearm rate. Are you sure about that? Hmmm that would be incredibly confusing... not that that would stop us... Dang it, now I really don't want to wait for Shanghai to wake up and get to the office. Right now, it might be a little confusing if the nanohives do in fact split their clusters between ammo and health. But the math seems to make sense for the hybrid hives like allotek to fully prioritize whatever is on them. IOW I don't think the allotek at least, 'saved' clusters that could have been used for ammo. I was able to get 72/3 = 24 clusters worth of reps @ 40 HP per rep for 960 HP in one Allotek Hive. As it stands I don't see anything that suggests there are two pools of nanites. /me could be wrong


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25945	Posted - 2013.07.18 19:17:00 - [9] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Note: If we know the # of clusters used / nanohive for resupply/triage, then you can start to estimate wp/hive. That was part of the intention of this post too. WP/hive??? What do you mean? The Warpoints you could get for healing teammates with a nanohive?


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25945	Posted - 2013.07.18 19:45:00 - [10] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: The problem is that you'll probably be repairing more HP than you will get wp for. Why do you say that? Sorry for my inability to follow along, I am a bit slow. :(



CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25963	Posted - 2013.07.19 13:13:00 - [11] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: From what i understand... A nano hive has a max pool of nanites... and releases a wave every cycle That cycle can either repair or resuply, but uses the same amount of nanites for both and regardless of how much is resupplied or repaired This is incorrect. As the discussion in this thread has already showed a cycle of armor repair actually uses 3 nanites and then different weapons have different nanite costs which hasn't even been covered in this thread.


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25964	Posted - 2013.07.19 14:50:00 - [12] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: From what i understand... A nano hive has a max pool of nanites... and releases a wave every cycle That cycle can either repair or resuply, but uses the same amount of nanites for both and regardless of how much is resupplied or repaired https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpEveOnline/pix-trans.png This is incorrect. As the discussion in this thread has already showed a cycle of armor repair actually uses 3 nanites and then different weapons have different nanite costs which hasn't even been covered in this thread. ok so what your saying is that i can only resupply my forge gun X times but my assault rifle Y times... based on the same Nano hive...? I thought this was balalanced through the ammount of ammo given (2-3 a cycle for a FG, 60 something for AR) but you get the same ammount of cycles each...? and on the same lines you only get X cycles repairing and Y cycles resupplying...? Keeping in mind that my understanding might be wrong, this is how I understand Nanohives to work: Nanohives have a store of nanites. The store of nanites is used to replenish armor, ammo, and grenades. Nanohives have a rate at which they replenish armor. Nanohives have a seperate rate at which they replenish ammo. Nanohives have a set amount of nanites used per armor repair cycle. Weapons and grenades have a per type set amount of nanites required to fully restore their ammo. Both ammo, grenades, and armor take from the same single store of nanites. Example: Nanohive: Armor repair: 0 Ammo replenish rate: 10% Store of nanites: 36 Armor repair nanite cost: 0 Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohive: Armor repair: 70 Ammo replenish rate: 0% Store of nanites: 101 Armor repair nanite cost: 3 Locus Grenade: Max ammo: 3 Total ammo nanite cost: 24 Breach Mass Driver Max ammo: 18 Total ammo nanite cost: 16 Just to give a few examples.


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25964	Posted - 2013.07.19 16:07:00 - [13] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: beautiful. Thanks Anytime! :D Now I just hope I was correct in what I said...


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25965	Posted - 2013.07.19 16:40:00 - [14] - Quote ladwar wrote: hm.. so time for testing.. im guessing nades have per cluster value of 8, making it so the advanced+ give a max of 9 of them(per hive). time for random nade tossing tested k-2=9 nades flaylock= 36 cycles so 2 per cluster I don't see a grenade with k-2 in the name... what's the full name of it? And which Nanohive are you doing this testing with?


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25965	Posted - 2013.07.19 16:47:00 - [15] - Quote ladwar wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: ladwar wrote: hm.. so time for testing.. im guessing nades have per cluster value of 8, making it so the advanced+ give a max of 9 of them(per hive). time for random nade tossing tested k-2=9 nades flaylock= 36 cycles so 2 per cluster I don't see a grenade with k-2 in the name... what's the full name of it? And which Nanohive are you doing this testing with? that was the hive i used. OK, good I am not insane. The K-2 Nanohive has a store of 72 nanites. The Locus Grenade should take 24 nanites to full reload and there is a max ammo of 3. 72 nanites / 24 nanite requirement = 3 full reloads 3 full relocates * 3 max ammo count = 9 grenades


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25976	Posted - 2013.07.19 17:50:00 - [16] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: I"m not sure if we are getting our terms confused here, but to me it makes sense to say "____ weapon uses ___ clusters per cycle." It appears that we say "it takes X amount of nanites to refill the weapon completely" Lets stick with the flaylock as an example. For now I am going to completely ignore even the concept of skills and other modifiers. The Flaylock Pistol has a mFireMode0_maxAmmoCount of 15. It has the attribute mTotalAmmoNanitesCost, which I am taking to mean the number of nanites required to fully refill the weapon, set to 8. Each Nanohive then has a different value for the rate at which it replenishes ammo. For the Nanohive this is 0.1, or 10%. So if I understand the system correctly it would go something like this: Max ammo * replenish rate = ammo restored per cycle 15 * 0.1 = 1.5 rockets restored per cycle Total ammo nanite cost * replenish rate = nanite cost per cycle 8 * 0.1 = 0.8 nanites per cycle I have no idea how rounding works for this, but that is how I understand it to work by just looking at the data.


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25978	Posted - 2013.07.19 18:23:00 - [17] - Quote ladwar wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: I"m not sure if we are getting our terms confused here, but to me it makes sense to say "____ weapon uses ___ clusters per cycle." It appears that we say "it takes X amount of nanites to refill the weapon completely" Lets stick with the flaylock as an example. For now I am going to completely ignore even the concept of skills and other modifiers. The Flaylock Pistol has a mFireMode0_maxAmmoCount of 15. It has the attribute mTotalAmmoNanitesCost, which I am taking to mean the number of nanites required to fully refill the weapon, set to 8. Each Nanohive then has a different value for the rate at which it replenishes ammo. For the Nanohive this is 0.1, or 10%. So if I understand the system correctly it would go something like this: Max ammo * replenish rate = ammo restored per cycle 15 * 0.1 = 1.5 rockets restored per cycle Total ammo nanite cost * replenish rate = nanite cost per cycle 8 * 0.1 = 0.8 nanites per cycle I have no idea how rounding works for this, but that is how I understand it to work by just looking at the data. the default is 21. The default of what is 21?


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25978	Posted - 2013.07.19 18:25:00 - [18] - Quote ladwar wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: ladwar wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: I"m not sure if we are getting our terms confused here, but to me it makes sense to say "____ weapon uses ___ clusters per cycle." It appears that we say "it takes X amount of nanites to refill the weapon completely" Lets stick with the flaylock as an example. For now I am going to completely ignore even the concept of skills and other modifiers. The Flaylock Pistol has a mFireMode0_maxAmmoCount of 15. It has the attribute mTotalAmmoNanitesCost, which I am taking to mean the number of nanites required to fully refill the weapon, set to 8. Each Nanohive then has a different value for the rate at which it replenishes ammo. For the Nanohive this is 0.1, or 10%. So if I understand the system correctly it would go something like this: Max ammo * replenish rate = ammo restored per cycle 15 * 0.1 = 1.5 rockets restored per cycle Total ammo nanite cost * replenish rate = nanite cost per cycle 8 * 0.1 = 0.8 nanites per cycle I have no idea how rounding works for this, but that is how I understand it to work by just looking at the data. the default is 21. The default of what is 21? flaylock max ammo Ah yes, I misread. Sorry. The concept still applies but thank you. :)