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Nanohive Alchemy: 6.60 HP/cluster

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 18 post(s)
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 950	Posted - 2013.07.19 18:23:00 - [91] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: ladwar wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: I"m not sure if we are getting our terms confused here, but to me it makes sense to say "____ weapon uses ___ clusters per cycle." It appears that we say "it takes X amount of nanites to refill the weapon completely" Lets stick with the flaylock as an example. For now I am going to completely ignore even the concept of skills and other modifiers. The Flaylock Pistol has a mFireMode0_maxAmmoCount of 15. It has the attribute mTotalAmmoNanitesCost, which I am taking to mean the number of nanites required to fully refill the weapon, set to 8. Each Nanohive then has a different value for the rate at which it replenishes ammo. For the Nanohive this is 0.1, or 10%. So if I understand the system correctly it would go something like this: Max ammo * replenish rate = ammo restored per cycle 15 * 0.1 = 1.5 rockets restored per cycle Total ammo nanite cost * replenish rate = nanite cost per cycle 8 * 0.1 = 0.8 nanites per cycle I have no idea how rounding works for this, but that is how I understand it to work by just looking at the data. the default is 21. The default of what is 21? flaylock max ammo

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 25978	Posted - 2013.07.19 18:25:00 - [92] - Quote ladwar wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: ladwar wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: I"m not sure if we are getting our terms confused here, but to me it makes sense to say "____ weapon uses ___ clusters per cycle." It appears that we say "it takes X amount of nanites to refill the weapon completely" Lets stick with the flaylock as an example. For now I am going to completely ignore even the concept of skills and other modifiers. The Flaylock Pistol has a mFireMode0_maxAmmoCount of 15. It has the attribute mTotalAmmoNanitesCost, which I am taking to mean the number of nanites required to fully refill the weapon, set to 8. Each Nanohive then has a different value for the rate at which it replenishes ammo. For the Nanohive this is 0.1, or 10%. So if I understand the system correctly it would go something like this: Max ammo * replenish rate = ammo restored per cycle 15 * 0.1 = 1.5 rockets restored per cycle Total ammo nanite cost * replenish rate = nanite cost per cycle 8 * 0.1 = 0.8 nanites per cycle I have no idea how rounding works for this, but that is how I understand it to work by just looking at the data. the default is 21. The default of what is 21? flaylock max ammo Ah yes, I misread. Sorry. The concept still applies but thank you. :)

Touchy McHealz Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2013.07.22 03:27:00 - [93] - Quote Non hungarian notation! I am scandalized. Then again .... neither is EA code. Maybe it is a simulation vs game code difference.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 302	Posted - 2013.07.22 03:30:00 - [94] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: OK, good I am not insane. Let's not be too hasty in our judgment.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1383	Posted - 2013.08.03 15:55:00 - [95] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Note: If we know the # of clusters used / nanohive for resupply/triage, then you can start to estimate wp/hive. That was part of the intention of this post too. WP/hive??? What do you mean? The Warpoints you could get for healing teammates with a nanohive? Wouldn't figuring out WP per hive be tricky with the differing clusters consumed by each activity and the various cooldown timers in place on WP earnings (for both hives and repping)? I suppose we could establish max potential WP per hive and simply state that actual WP per hive will be less under battlefield conditions, plus truncated if the hive is destroyed. It would be a very useful thing to know just seems quite 'slippery' as far as pinning it down. Or am I missing some obvious way around that? 0.02 ISK Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1383	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:01:00 - [96] - Quote ladwar wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: ladwar wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: ladwar wrote: hm.. so time for testing.. im guessing nades have per cluster value of 8, making it so the advanced+ give a max of 9 of them(per hive). time for random nade tossing tested k-2=9 nades flaylock= 36 cycles so 2 per cluster I don't see a grenade with k-2 in the name... what's the full name of it? And which Nanohive are you doing this testing with? that was the hive i used. OK, good I am not insane. The K-2 Nanohive has a store of 72 nanites. The Locus Grenade should take 24 nanites to full reload and there is a max ammo of 3. 72 nanites / 24 nanite requirement = 3 full reloads 3 full relocates * 3 max ammo count = 9 grenades the compact has 25 so a full relocates(3) is 24 then 1 cluster used to give the 4th one. seems bad when the standard also gives out 4. Forgive me if I'm having an understanding fail, I'm very tired but since when are there Locus Grenades with a max ammo capacity of 3? If memory serves Contacts are 1, anti-Infantry are 2, and AV/Flux are 3, with Locus being an anti-infantry variant. What am I missing here? ~Cross
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 918	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:03:00 - [97] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Note: If we know the # of clusters used / nanohive for resupply/triage, then you can start to estimate wp/hive. That was part of the intention of this post too. WP/hive??? What do you mean? The Warpoints you could get for healing teammates with a nanohive? Wouldn't figuring out WP per hive be tricky with the differing clusters consumed by each activity and the various cooldown timers in place on WP earnings (for both hives and repping)? I suppose we could establish max potential WP per hive and simply state that actual WP per hive will be less under battlefield conditions, plus truncated if the hive is destroyed. It would be a very useful thing to know just seems quite 'slippery' as far as pinning it down. Or am I missing some obvious way around that? 0.02 ISK Cross Yeah you're right. All we could know is the max potential. I really haven't been able to pin down how the timers work exactly. I don't know if the timers for nano-triage and repair tool triage are necessarily connected. I'm pretty sure I've seen more than 5 +25 triage messages in a row from nanohives. It's possible that each tier of nanohives has its on timers...dunno...
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1383	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:07:00 - [98] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: From what i understand... A nano hive has a max pool of nanites... and releases a wave every cycle That cycle can either repair or resuply, but uses the same amount of nanites for both and regardless of how much is resupplied or repaired This is incorrect. As the discussion in this thread has already showed a cycle of armor repair actually uses 3 nanites and then different weapons have different nanite costs which hasn't even been covered in this thread. Fox is there any priority regarding how clusters are used in hives? What I mean is "how does the hive select which service to spend clusters on first?" I have yet to see a hive give more than one rep/ammo/nade at once, but that may be a purely UI thing in which only one is displayed at a time but it at least looks like there's only one type being given at a time and if true it suggests there is some system in place to determen which one. If not true what would it take for the UI to be updated so that it accurately reflects to the player whats transpiring in game? Also, thank you for participating on this. Cheers, Cross
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 918	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:12:00 - [99] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: From what i understand... A nano hive has a max pool of nanites... and releases a wave every cycle That cycle can either repair or resuply, but uses the same amount of nanites for both and regardless of how much is resupplied or repaired This is incorrect. As the discussion in this thread has already showed a cycle of armor repair actually uses 3 nanites and then different weapons have different nanite costs which hasn't even been covered in this thread. Fox is there any priority regarding how clusters are used in hives? What I mean is "how does the hive select which service to spend clusters on first?" I have yet to see a hive give more than one rep/ammo/nade at once, but that may be a purely UI thing in which only one is displayed at a time but it at least looks like there's only one type being given at a time and if true it suggests there is some system in place to determen which one. If not true what would it take for the UI to be updated so that it accurately reflects to the player whats transpiring in game? Also, thank you for participating on this. Cheers, Cross Not sure if this is what you are talking about, but when I've had all the triage hives down that I could i've seen +50 triage before. It is as if the server can aggregate the points you get. I don't think Ive ever seen +20 resupply though.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 918	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:14:00 - [100] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Forgive me if I'm having an understanding fail, I'm very tired but since when are there Locus Grenades with a max ammo capacity of 3? If memory serves Contacts are 1, anti-Infantry are 2, and AV/Flux are 3, with Locus being an anti-infantry variant. What am I missing here? ~Cross Looking at fitting and my grenades in battle now. I only have grenades II, but all my infantry grenades save impact grenades are a quantity of 3.

Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1384	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:17:00 - [101] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Cross Atu wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Note: If we know the # of clusters used / nanohive for resupply/triage, then you can start to estimate wp/hive. That was part of the intention of this post too. WP/hive??? What do you mean? The Warpoints you could get for healing teammates with a nanohive? Wouldn't figuring out WP per hive be tricky with the differing clusters consumed by each activity and the various cooldown timers in place on WP earnings (for both hives and repping)? I suppose we could establish max potential WP per hive and simply state that actual WP per hive will be less under battlefield conditions, plus truncated if the hive is destroyed. It would be a very useful thing to know just seems quite 'slippery' as far as pinning it down. Or am I missing some obvious way around that? 0.02 ISK Cross Yeah you're right. All we could know is the max potential. I really haven't been able to pin down how the timers work exactly. I don't know if the timers for nano-triage and repair tool triage are necessarily connected. I'm pretty sure I've seen more than 5 +25 triage messages in a row from nanohives. It's possible that each tier of nanohives has its on timers...dunno... That will be very interesting to test. My observations from prior builds suggest that the triage times are universal, however that is far from confirmed. I have seen 150 WP worth of +25 triage awards as the highest single "in a row" amount earned which if still accurate would put the cap/cooldown at 6. Testing this is further complicated by the "target must have damaged an enemy within X seconds" aspect as well as the cooldown timer being an unstated amount but reset upon death making testing for it very tricky. The WP till cap for triage is also drawn from the same pool as guardian awards as far as cap is concerned which further obscures the specifics. Man I wish we had a test server/somewhere sanctioned to create controlled battle conditions by stacking both teams to test. If each "item", meaning the repair tool and each hive, counts as its own tally/has its own cap regarding triage points that would be very interesting. I think we can test for that at least by having a squad stack armor, fight, come back for reps until the logi hits cap, then once capped deploy armor rep hives and have the squad use those. If the logi still gets WP from the hives they're on their own cap. The same could be done for multiple hives and multiple hive types. Does anyone see a hole in my method, aside from the obvious '"hard to control battled conditions" lol. Cheers, Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1384	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:19:00 - [102] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Forgive me if I'm having an understanding fail, I'm very tired but since when are there Locus Grenades with a max ammo capacity of 3? If memory serves Contacts are 1, anti-Infantry are 2, and AV/Flux are 3, with Locus being an anti-infantry variant. What am I missing here? ~Cross Looking at fitting and my grenades in battle now. I only have grenades II, but all my infantry grenades save impact grenades are a quantity of 3. Wow, good to know. Sounds like my info there is highly outdated (or I just remembered it wrong ). Time to finish maxing my related skills so I can test them more. Thanks for the info on this. Cheers, Cross ps ~ great thread, thanks again for pointing me to it.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 919	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:24:00 - [103] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Forgive me if I'm having an understanding fail, I'm very tired but since when are there Locus Grenades with a max ammo capacity of 3? If memory serves Contacts are 1, anti-Infantry are 2, and AV/Flux are 3, with Locus being an anti-infantry variant. What am I missing here? ~Cross Looking at fitting and my grenades in battle now. I only have grenades II, but all my infantry grenades save impact grenades are a quantity of 3. Wow, good to know. Sounds like my info there is highly outdated (or I just remembered it wrong ). Time to finish maxing my related skills so I can test them more. Thanks for the info on this. Cheers, Cross ps ~ great thread, thanks again for pointing me to it. On the topic of grenades though, I'm testing throw distance an I see no difference from one to another packed, core, impact, sleek, or regular.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1384	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:29:00 - [104] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: On the topic of grenades though, I'm testing throw distance an I see no difference from one to another packed, core, impact, sleek, or regular. Oh, you've found another whole 'kettle of fish' It makes me wonder how grenades work within the new range system or if the code has somehow been implemented in a way that means they don't interact at all. EDIT: What's your testing protocol for this?
Skihids Bullet Cluster 1825	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:31:00 - [105] - Quote Or CCP could just tell us how they coded it and list the cluster count in the item description.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 919	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:31:00 - [106] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: On the topic of grenades though, I'm testing throw distance an I see no difference from one to another packed, core, impact, sleek, or regular. Oh, you've found another whole 'kettle of fish' It makes me wonder how grenades work within the new range system or if the code has somehow been implemented in a way that means they don't interact at all. EDIT: What's your testing protocol for this? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99493&find=unread
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 920	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:38:00 - [107] - Quote Skihids wrote: Or CCP could just tell us how they coded it and list the cluster count in the item description. It is confusing to follow the discussion here, but repair and resupply work differently when it comes to clusters. repair is the easiest at a standard clusters/cycle. Resupply is a function of each weapon's total ammo amount. The amount of clusters consumed per cycle on a nanohive is different for each weapon based on: A) player's ammo skill B) nanohive's ammo resupply rate C) weapon's nanite consumption rate per max ammo amt. C) doesn't change based on A). It would make the most sense to put cluster resupply cost on weapons and not on nanohives. In another topic, what would you think about splitting down nanohives even more into explosive/projectile/plasma/rail nanohives? They could have the interesting effect of consolidating team strategies, maybe at a reduced fitting cost or some really good benefit.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1384	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:38:00 - [108] - Quote Responded there but here may be a better place for it, Cross Atu wrote: Here's an additional tidbit. You can throw basic militia grenades from high ground, such as the top of those tall 'spires' and have them explode on the ground below. Perhaps the throw range is only defined by the arc of the throw + time remaining on the fuse? It does seem odd that items described as having a higher throw range wouldn't function that way however. 0.02 ISK Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1384	Posted - 2013.08.03 16:43:00 - [109] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: In another topic, what would you think about splitting down nanohives even more into explosive/projectile/plasma/rail nanohives? They could have the interesting effect of consolidating team strategies, maybe at a reduced fitting cost or some really good benefit. I think if done in the vein of the repair tools with an emphasis rather than an exclusion it would be a great way to add diversity to the hive line and hopefully improve squad coordination and, to borrow a term, "fleet doctrine". The repair tools have two rep values, one for use on vehicles and one for use on infantry. I'd take the same approach with specialist hive types. Give the hive an enhance efficiency when resupplying the "intended" type of ammo, and let it still resupply any type but take a performance hit for ammo types outside of the specialized type. 0.02 ISK Cross
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 921	Posted - 2013.08.03 17:53:00 - [110] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: In another topic, what would you think about splitting down nanohives even more into explosive/projectile/plasma/rail nanohives? They could have the interesting effect of consolidating team strategies, maybe at a reduced fitting cost or some really good benefit. I think if done in the vein of the repair tools with an emphasis rather than an exclusion it would be a great way to add diversity to the hive line and hopefully improve squad coordination and, to borrow a term, "fleet doctrine". The repair tools have two rep values, one for use on vehicles and one for use on infantry. I'd take the same approach with specialist hive types. Give the hive an enhance efficiency when resupplying the "intended" type of ammo, and let it still resupply any type but take a performance hit for ammo types outside of the specialized type. 0.02 ISK Cross Yeah I like that idea. The only other thing you'd need to show would be a graphic that shows the kind of hive it is then. So that's that many more things to track.

Jimthefighter Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.08.03 18:30:00 - [111] - Quote I'm all for different colors for the nanohives. Sure it'd be a little distracting, but you'd be able to see, on the fly, what does what. I said before somewhere, to maybe have a red tint to triage hives field, as the different symbol on the screen isn't really useful. It probably would even be hard to code, it'd just be a matter of figuring out what color (light tints so you can still see through them with minimal fuss), goes with what type, with the standard colorless one representing general hives.
Davy Headhunter Seraphim Auxiliaries 16	Posted - 2013.08.14 12:02:00 - [112] - Quote I know this topic is dead, but i could not find the answer anywhere else. When, and Why did they change the Nanohive limit on the field? i mean. few weeks ago we could deploy 2x nanohives per nanohive equipment fitted at the same time, which means that for a gallente logi fitted with 4x nanohives, he could deploy 8 active nanohives at the same time. Is this a new bug, or working as intended, please CCP SoxFour give a say about that.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1080	Posted - 2013.08.14 12:24:00 - [113] - Quote Davy Headhunter wrote: I know this topic is dead, but i could not find the answer anywhere else. When, and Why did they change the Nanohive limit on the field? i mean. few weeks ago we could deploy 2x nanohives per nanohive equipment fitted at the same time, which means that for a gallente logi fitted with 4x nanohives, he could deploy 8 active nanohives at the same time. Is this a new bug, or working as intended, please CCP SoxFour give a say about that. I am not exactly sure what you are saying here. I have never been able to deploy more than 2 of the SAME nanohive since I've been playing a logibro except for the ishukone guaged ones. If you have the same nanohive equipped in different spots, you can carry more than 2 at a time, but can only deploy up to the normal amount listed of that type.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1471	Posted - 2013.08.14 21:17:00 - [114] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: In another topic, what would you think about splitting down nanohives even more into explosive/projectile/plasma/rail nanohives? They could have the interesting effect of consolidating team strategies, maybe at a reduced fitting cost or some really good benefit. I think if done in the vein of the repair tools with an emphasis rather than an exclusion it would be a great way to add diversity to the hive line and hopefully improve squad coordination and, to borrow a term, "fleet doctrine". The repair tools have two rep values, one for use on vehicles and one for use on infantry. I'd take the same approach with specialist hive types. Give the hive an enhance efficiency when resupplying the "intended" type of ammo, and let it still resupply any type but take a performance hit for ammo types outside of the specialized type. 0.02 ISK Cross Yeah I like that idea. The only other thing you'd need to show would be a graphic that shows the kind of hive it is then. So that's that many more things to track. Perhaps add a tint to the field of the nanohive which would designate the type it corresponds too?
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1471	Posted - 2013.08.14 21:18:00 - [115] - Quote Davy Headhunter wrote: I know this topic is dead, but i could not find the answer anywhere else. When, and Why did they change the Nanohive limit on the field? i mean. few weeks ago we could deploy 2x nanohives per nanohive equipment fitted at the same time, which means that for a gallente logi fitted with 4x nanohives, he could deploy 8 active nanohives at the same time. Is this a new bug, or working as intended, please CCP SoxFour give a say about that. As of 8/12/2013 I was still able to employ this method, provided all nanohives deployed were of differing types I will test further to see if this has been altered. Cross
FLAYLOCK Steve Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 303	Posted - 2013.08.14 21:56:00 - [116] - Quote This is so freaking interesting.
Dimitri Rascolovitch The Immortal Knights 28	Posted - 2013.08.14 22:07:00 - [117] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: The problem is that you'll probably be repairing more HP than you will get wp for. Why do you say that? Sorry for my inability to follow along, I am a bit slow. :( just wondering FoxFour, i know you are a DEV and all, but do you even play dust? some of the things you say hint that you dont actually play the game
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1473	Posted - 2013.08.14 22:17:00 - [118] - Quote Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: The problem is that you'll probably be repairing more HP than you will get wp for. Why do you say that? Sorry for my inability to follow along, I am a bit slow. :( just wondering FoxFour, i know you are a DEV and all, but do you even play dust? some of the things you say hint that you dont actually play the game Yep, FoxFour plays. Confirming that I have read first hand accounts of his play on more than one occasion. (Now to find out what name he runs under on TQ ) ~Cross
Davy Headhunter Seraphim Auxiliaries 16	Posted - 2013.08.16 17:00:00 - [119] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Davy Headhunter wrote: I know this topic is dead, but i could not find the answer anywhere else. When, and Why did they change the Nanohive limit on the field? i mean. few weeks ago we could deploy 2x nanohives per nanohive equipment fitted at the same time, which means that for a gallente logi fitted with 4x nanohives, he could deploy 8 active nanohives at the same time. Is this a new bug, or working as intended, please CCP SoxFour give a say about that. As of 8/12/2013 I was still able to employ this method, provided all nanohives deployed were of differing types I will test further to see if this has been altered. Cross I am 100% sure that i was able to deploy 6x alotek nanohives 3 weeks ago (2 from each module equipped)
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1094	Posted - 2013.08.16 17:07:00 - [120] - Quote Davy Headhunter wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Davy Headhunter wrote: I know this topic is dead, but i could not find the answer anywhere else. When, and Why did they change the Nanohive limit on the field? i mean. few weeks ago we could deploy 2x nanohives per nanohive equipment fitted at the same time, which means that for a gallente logi fitted with 4x nanohives, he could deploy 8 active nanohives at the same time. Is this a new bug, or working as intended, please CCP SoxFour give a say about that. As of 8/12/2013 I was still able to employ this method, provided all nanohives deployed were of differing types I will test further to see if this has been altered. Cross I am 100% sure that i was able to deploy 6x alotek nanohives 3 weeks ago (2 from each module equipped) And none were disappearing?



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