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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 18 post(s) |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
934
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Posted - 2013.07.18 15:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:ladwar wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:ladwar wrote:wasn't completely done, but now i finished. So for 7070 are you saying that's the amount of HP in a single nanohive or the whole module? I got nothing close to 7070 in a single nanohive on the wirykomi. 6900 was in the total of 3 hives. Did you actually sit on the nanohives to come up with any of this, or just do some fuzzy math to try to figure out round numbers? I repeated my procedures 2x for each hive and got the same results. I depleted the shield/armor of a basic heavy suit to have about 15/600 armor HP. Then I stood over a hive and watched closely as my armor repaired. The broadcasted amount was always the same as what my indicator showed. The depletion rate is not random as far as I can tell. you sure it was 3 because the numbers are uneven but fit for 2 and i would need to more math. but that per module not hive yes. i might hit this back up later but for now im sold on the idea its the HPS value=2 clusters besides the compact. Yep. There are 3 wyrikomis that you can carry, with 2 deployed max. I was able to deplete one nanohive while dispensing 2300 HP. So 2300 x 3 = 6900. Forcing round numbers on this is just confusing me. i'm open to other interpretations if you'd do your own trails. What you might be suggesting, it isn't clear, is that clusters could actually correspond to total healing potential DEPLOYED at one point. It may not correspond to each hive. EDIT: I wasn't disagreeing with the amount of clusters per heal (it still could be a valid possibility), but the fact that there are 3 hives per wirykomi module (which i hate spelling btw) So each hive wasn't anywhere near 7000ish HP, but that's the odule. its the value of hp/s=2 cluster(might be 3). i hate spelling it too |
Beren Hurin
K-A-O-S theory
729
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Posted - 2013.07.18 15:39:00 -
[32] - Quote
ladwar wrote: t's the value of hp/s=2 cluster(might be 3). i hate spelling it too
So you are saying the each repair cycle takes 2 or 3 clusters on each nanohive?
Edit...I see now. The math is VERY close to my numbers per nanohive if each repair cycle 'takes' 3 clusters from the listed amount!!!! |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
934
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Posted - 2013.07.18 15:41:00 -
[33] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:ladwar wrote: t's the value of hp/s=2 cluster(might be 3). i hate spelling it too So you are saying the each repair cycle takes 2 or 3 clusters on each nanohive? yes, even if its not a full. |
Beren Hurin
K-A-O-S theory
729
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Posted - 2013.07.18 15:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
I would expect then for ammo to refill then in a similar way at x clusters per cycle, and different amounts of clusters maybe for each weapon class, and definitely different cluster amounts for grenades vs. guns. |
RKKR
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
259
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Posted - 2013.07.18 15:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
Just had a quick glance at this, but maybe the 2-3 clusters is from the number of nanohives? And that the mentioned clusters is for the total of all numbers of hives you can deploy?
I'm to lazy to check this, so just dropping it here. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
934
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Posted - 2013.07.18 16:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:I would expect then for ammo to refill then in a similar way at x clusters per cycle, and different amounts of clusters maybe for each weapon class, and definitely different cluster amounts for grenades vs. guns. thats going to be long list but i am guessing its going to be 3clusters per resupply as well. and just on some rough numbers 10 clusters= one nade. might be 12.. i really haven't tested it a while |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
25935
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Compact: 350/hive in testing; 25 max clusters/hive (350 HP per module) @ 50 HP/s K17/D: 480/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (960 HP per module) @ 20 HP/s Allotek: 950/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (2850 HP per module) @ 40 HP/s Wiyrkomi: 2300/hive in testing; 101 max clusters/hive (6900 HP per equipped module!) @ 70 HP/s.
damn you all... you post interesting things that I don't understand and now I must go poke people internally so I understand.
So Wiyrkomi for example has 101 clusters and repairs 70hp/s. That should repair a total of 7,070 right? 101*70 = 7,070. You list however 6,900. Also what do you mean by per equipped module? Per nanohive?
What I am not understanding is your first number. Are you saying that the Wiyrkomi should get 7,070 based on numbers but is only getting 2,300?
Well done on the research good sir! |
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Beren Hurin
K-A-O-S theory
731
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Compact: 350/hive in testing; 25 max clusters/hive (350 HP per module) @ 50 HP/s K17/D: 480/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (960 HP per module) @ 20 HP/s Allotek: 950/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (2850 HP per module) @ 40 HP/s Wiyrkomi: 2300/hive in testing; 101 max clusters/hive (6900 HP per equipped module!) @ 70 HP/s. damn you all... you post interesting things that I don't understand and now I must go poke people internally so I understand. So Wiyrkomi for example has 101 clusters and repairs 70hp/s. That should repair a total of 7,070 right? 101*70 = 7,070. You list however 6,900. Also what do you mean by per equipped module? Per nanohive? What I am not understanding is your first number. Are you saying that the Wiyrkomi should get 7,070 based on numbers but is only getting 2,300? Well done on the research good sir!
Almost there... We found that the Wiyrkomi (and all rep-hives) takes 3 clusters per cycle to repair. 101 clusters = 33 cycles @ 70 HP per cycle = 2310 HP (in a wierdyourkrazy nanohive). So my original numbers were pretty good on a per hive basis. I'm going to clean up my original post in a bit. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
25935
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ah talking to others your first number is a "in practice" type thing. So while the Wiyrkomi could potentially give out 7,070 HP of armor it generally gives out 2,300 because it is also replenishing ammo and grenades. |
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
837
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Compact: 350/hive in testing; 25 max clusters/hive (350 HP per module) @ 50 HP/s K17/D: 480/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (960 HP per module) @ 20 HP/s Allotek: 950/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (2850 HP per module) @ 40 HP/s Wiyrkomi: 2300/hive in testing; 101 max clusters/hive (6900 HP per equipped module!) @ 70 HP/s. damn you all... you post interesting things that I don't understand and now I must go poke people internally so I understand. So Wiyrkomi for example has 101 clusters and repairs 70hp/s. That should repair a total of 7,070 right? 101*70 = 7,070. You list however 6,900. Also what do you mean by per equipped module? Per nanohive? What I am not understanding is your first number. Are you saying that the Wiyrkomi should get 7,070 based on numbers but is only getting 2,300? Well done on the research good sir!
Math would be much easier if CCP were to publish real numbers. While you are poking them can you get the weapon ranges? Any good soldier knows his ranges.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
25937
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Compact: 350/hive in testing; 25 max clusters/hive (350 HP per module) @ 50 HP/s K17/D: 480/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (960 HP per module) @ 20 HP/s Allotek: 950/hive in testing; 72 max clusters/hive (2850 HP per module) @ 40 HP/s Wiyrkomi: 2300/hive in testing; 101 max clusters/hive (6900 HP per equipped module!) @ 70 HP/s. damn you all... you post interesting things that I don't understand and now I must go poke people internally so I understand. So Wiyrkomi for example has 101 clusters and repairs 70hp/s. That should repair a total of 7,070 right? 101*70 = 7,070. You list however 6,900. Also what do you mean by per equipped module? Per nanohive? What I am not understanding is your first number. Are you saying that the Wiyrkomi should get 7,070 based on numbers but is only getting 2,300? Well done on the research good sir! Almost there... We found that the Wiyrkomi (and all rep-hives) takes 3 clusters per cycle to repair. 101 clusters = 33 cycles @ 70 HP per cycle = 2310 HP (in a wierdyourkrazy nanohive). So my original numbers were pretty good on a per hive basis. I'm going to clean up my original post in a bit.
AH! OK, cool this is making more and more sense and I look at data and your numbers trying to understand things. Thank you very much. :D
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Beren Hurin
K-A-O-S theory
733
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:18:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Ah talking to others your first number is a "in practice" type thing. So while the Wiyrkomi could potentially give out 7,070 HP of armor it generally gives out 2,300 because it is also replenishing ammo and grenades.
Well the wyrikomi wouldn't give out ammo. it is triage only. I stood on my test hives ONLY after refilling all my ammo from a supply depot. I tried to manage my control variable.
Are we saying that there are two sets of 'nanite supplies' within each hive? One for ammo and one for armor? And that you could max one out before the other? I don't think this is how it works, but I guess I could test it by nearly maxing out an allotek from armor then emptying a gun to test. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
2121
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Ah talking to others your first number is a "in practice" type thing. So while the Wiyrkomi could potentially give out 7,070 HP of armor it generally gives out 2,300 because it is also replenishing ammo and grenades. Well the wyrikomi wouldn't give out ammo. I stood on my test hives ONLY after refilling all my ammo from a supply depot. I tried to manage my control variable. Are we saying that there are two sets of 'nanite supplies' within each hive? One for ammo and one for armor? And that you could max one out before the other? I don't think this is how it works, but I guess I could test it by nearly maxing out an allotek from armor then emptying a gun to test.
Yeah, doubt the Triage nanohive would have clusters going out to ammo/grenades BUT
a.) There is a potential bug which eats clusters for ammo/grenades but does not replenish them. b.) The nanohive, having split cluster bases for different things, is only providing one half of its clusters for armor when it should be using all of them - hence the 2,300 approximate. |
Beren Hurin
K-A-O-S theory
733
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Ah talking to others your first number is a "in practice" type thing. So while the Wiyrkomi could potentially give out 7,070 HP of armor it generally gives out 2,300 because it is also replenishing ammo and grenades. Well the wyrikomi wouldn't give out ammo. I stood on my test hives ONLY after refilling all my ammo from a supply depot. I tried to manage my control variable. Are we saying that there are two sets of 'nanite supplies' within each hive? One for ammo and one for armor? And that you could max one out before the other? I don't think this is how it works, but I guess I could test it by nearly maxing out an allotek from armor then emptying a gun to test. Yeah, doubt the Triage nanohive would have clusters going out to ammo/grenades BUT a.) There is a potential bug which eats clusters for ammo/grenades but does not replenish them. b.) The nanohive, having split cluster bases for different things, is only providing one half of its clusters for armor when it should be using all of them - hence the 2,300 approximate.
Oooooooooh!! Tricky!!!! This would get even more messy code-wise if you start to mess with logi bonuses to hive-cluster capacities. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
25938
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
So I will poke some of the game designers in Shanghai that work on this stuff but taking a look at the data it appears there may be an attribute associated with nanohives that is along the lines of "it takes this many nanites per cycle of armor repair" the thing is however they all have it set the same...
Compact: 25 max clusters @ 50 HP/s (25*50=1,250) K17/D: 72 max clusters @ 20 HP/s (72*20=1,440) Allotek: 72 max clusters @ 40 HP/s (72*40=2,880) Wiyrkomi: 101 max clusters @ 70 HP/s (101*70=7,070)
I found an attribute that they all share which is set to 3. If we apply that to the above we get the following (max clusters / 3 * HP repaired): Compact: 25/3*50=416.67 K17/D: 72/3*20=480 Allotek: 72/3*40=960 Wiyrkomi: 101/3*70=2,356.67
Your testing shows the following though: Compact: 350/hive K17/D: 480/hive Allotek: 950/hive Wiyrkomi: 2,300/hive
Comparing my numbers to yours (mine, yours, delta): Compact: 416.67, 350, -66.67 K17/D: 480, 480, 0 Allotek: 960, 950, -10 Wiyrkomi: 2,300, 2,300, 0
As I said, I will try and poke some people but those numbers are close enough I might call it an error in testing. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
25938
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:41:00 -
[46] - Quote
For the compact 72/3 is 8.33333333333 (maybe it requires 3 nanites and won't do a partial?) if we round it down to 8 we get 400 total repaired armor and a delta of -50 instead of -66.67 (which is rounded but yea). Still a variance, but a closer one. Again I have no idea what the code is actually doing, I am just inferring things like you guys but with more data to look at. |
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Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
622
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:47:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote: Comparing my numbers to yours (mine, yours, delta): Compact: 416.67, 350, -66.67 K17/D: 480, 480, 0 Allotek: 960, 950, -10 Wiyrkomi: 2,300, 2,300, 0
Don't mind me, just pointing out that 2,300 is not the number you got for Wiyrkomi. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1013
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:50:00 -
[48] - Quote
Foxfour,
With nanohives the devs have a set number for HP/cluster, ammo/cluster, and clusters/grenade, and then the higher rep rate actually depletes the nanite clusters faster, so that proto nanohives deplete their max number of clusters faster due to higher repair/rearm rate.
So instead of staying 70*101 = 7070 hp total... its more like (70 HP/s / X HP/cluster ) * (101 clusters/nanohive) = Y HP/Nanohive
We don't know what X is but the OP is implying that for triage hives, 70 HP takes 3 clusters. So the repair rate is approximately 23 HP/Cluster... probably rounded to 25 HP/cluster and the traige rounds up to 3 clusters for 70hp instead of 2.8 clusters.
Given that most things in the game round... you probably get 34 repairs before the nanohive finishes... giving you a total of 70*34 = 2380 possible HP repaired by a single triage nanohive.
Which seems the logical way to do it... but the OP is implying that HP/Cluster changes for each nanohive.. that seems really wierd! |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
25943
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:51:00 -
[49] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote: Comparing my numbers to yours (mine, yours, delta): Compact: 416.67, 350, -66.67 K17/D: 480, 480, 0 Allotek: 960, 950, -10 Wiyrkomi: 2,300, 2,300, 0
Don't mind me, just pointing out that 2,300 is not the number you got for Wiyrkomi.
You are of course correct and I should probably get some sleep.... |
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Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
440
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:53:00 -
[50] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:So by bringing this info to light, I'm trying to highlight how the meta, as it exists now, could evolve to quickly enhance the strength of armor tanks.
IF more people specced into proto hives (big CPU/PG sacrifice) IF people regularly had support 'reinforcement fits' they used to pepper defensive spots when safe IF there were regularly 5-10 healing hives surrounding hotspots
THEN armor tankers' repair rates could start to rival that of shield tankers.
OR you had one guy running any sort of advanced/proto remote repper on the guy lol |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
25943
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:54:00 -
[51] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:With nanohives the devs have a set number for HP/cluster, ammo/cluster, and clusters/grenade, and then the higher rep rate actually depletes the nanite clusters faster, so that proto nanohives deplete their max number of clusters faster due to higher repair/rearm rate.
Are you sure about that? Hmmm that would be incredibly confusing... not that that would stop us...
Dang it, now I really don't want to wait for Shanghai to wake up and get to the office. |
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
818
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
May we please have these numbers in game? |
matsumoto yuichi san
SVER True Blood
22
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
makes my double wyrkomi + 500 armor all the more lols 4600 armor repair capacity, and i can drop another |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1013
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:56:00 -
[54] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:With nanohives the devs have a set number for HP/cluster, ammo/cluster, and clusters/grenade, and then the higher rep rate actually depletes the nanite clusters faster, so that proto nanohives deplete their max number of clusters faster due to higher repair/rearm rate. Are you sure about that? Hmmm that would be incredibly confusing... not that that would stop us... Dang it, now I really don't want to wait for Shanghai to wake up and get to the office.
No im not sure anymore... looks like the OP is saying thats not the case... my bad I should read more carefully too looks like lol. |
Beren Hurin
K-A-O-S theory
736
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:59:00 -
[55] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:So by bringing this info to light, I'm trying to highlight how the meta, as it exists now, could evolve to quickly enhance the strength of armor tanks.
IF more people specced into proto hives (big CPU/PG sacrifice) IF people regularly had support 'reinforcement fits' they used to pepper defensive spots when safe IF there were regularly 5-10 healing hives surrounding hotspots
THEN armor tankers' repair rates could start to rival that of shield tankers.
OR you had one guy running any sort of advanced/proto remote repper on the guy lol
I would add also, when the rail weapons start to show up, there will be a greater amount of deadly and accurate long range weapons. I would venture a guess too that the magsec SMG and Bolt pistol will basically make the gallente assault suit have the equivalent of 2 proto light weapons. When armor tankers start to realize that they are better at base defense with crap-tons of healing hives and logis, OR at long range where their strafe speed isn't as big of a deal, then armor will see its real strength. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
935
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Posted - 2013.07.18 19:03:00 -
[56] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Rogatien Merc wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:So by bringing this info to light, I'm trying to highlight how the meta, as it exists now, could evolve to quickly enhance the strength of armor tanks.
IF more people specced into proto hives (big CPU/PG sacrifice) IF people regularly had support 'reinforcement fits' they used to pepper defensive spots when safe IF there were regularly 5-10 healing hives surrounding hotspots
THEN armor tankers' repair rates could start to rival that of shield tankers.
OR you had one guy running any sort of advanced/proto remote repper on the guy lol I would add also, when the rail weapons start to show up, there will be a greater amount of deadly and accurate long range weapons. I would venture a guess too that the magsec SMG and Bolt pistol will basically make the gallente assault suit have the equivalent of 2 proto light weapons. When armor tankers start to realize that they are better at base defense with crap-tons of healing hives and logis, OR at long range where their strafe speed isn't as big of a deal, then armor will see its buff. well you got dev response.. wow. |
Beren Hurin
K-A-O-S theory
736
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Posted - 2013.07.18 19:06:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:With nanohives the devs have a set number for HP/cluster, ammo/cluster, and clusters/grenade, and then the higher rep rate actually depletes the nanite clusters faster, so that proto nanohives deplete their max number of clusters faster due to higher repair/rearm rate. Are you sure about that? Hmmm that would be incredibly confusing... not that that would stop us... Dang it, now I really don't want to wait for Shanghai to wake up and get to the office.
Right now, it might be a little confusing if the nanohives do in fact split their clusters between ammo and health. But the math seems to make sense for the hybrid hives like allotek to fully prioritize whatever is on them. IOW I don't think the allotek at least, 'saved' clusters that could have been used for ammo.
I was able to get 72/3 = 24 clusters worth of reps @ 40 HP per rep for 960 HP in one Allotek Hive. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
25945
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Posted - 2013.07.18 19:07:00 -
[58] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:With nanohives the devs have a set number for HP/cluster, ammo/cluster, and clusters/grenade, and then the higher rep rate actually depletes the nanite clusters faster, so that proto nanohives deplete their max number of clusters faster due to higher repair/rearm rate. Are you sure about that? Hmmm that would be incredibly confusing... not that that would stop us... Dang it, now I really don't want to wait for Shanghai to wake up and get to the office. Right now, it might be a little confusing if the nanohives do in fact split their clusters between ammo and health. But the math seems to make sense for the hybrid hives like allotek to fully prioritize whatever is on them. IOW I don't think the allotek at least, 'saved' clusters that could have been used for ammo. I was able to get 72/3 = 24 clusters worth of reps @ 40 HP per rep for 960 HP in one Allotek Hive.
As it stands I don't see anything that suggests there are two pools of nanites. /me could be wrong |
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Beren Hurin
K-A-O-S theory
737
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Posted - 2013.07.18 19:14:00 -
[59] - Quote
CCP Foxfour:
Programming things to check (probably for your own reference, but you could share ):
- How does the code see a dropsuit's armor remaining, ammo needed, or grenades/mines needed? - An armor repair module could potentially tick during/between server dropsuit check, thereby changing/nuetralizing the amount of clusters spent? - Would the client be animating the +x HP repaired? Or does this relate to the exact tick the armor repairs? - Where is the cooldown timer on triage WP being tracked? Total triage done over time by a person or on individual hives? - The above could relate to how the HP repaired gets rounded up/down and clusters get wasted.
Note: If we know the # of clusters used / nanohive for resupply/triage, then you can start to estimate wp/hive. That was part of the intention of this post too. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
25945
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Posted - 2013.07.18 19:17:00 -
[60] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Note: If we know the # of clusters used / nanohive for resupply/triage, then you can start to estimate wp/hive. That was part of the intention of this post too.
WP/hive??? What do you mean? The Warpoints you could get for healing teammates with a nanohive? |
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