Thukker Contact Locus Grenade

Price: 23,190 ISK

CPU Cost: 48

PG Cost: 6

Prequisites: Weaponry 3, Explosives 1, Grenadier 5

SP Cost: 1,417,760 SP

Blast Radius: 2.5 meters

Damage: 600

Summary: Inferior to the AUR version in every aspect other than direct damage. Requires an enormous amount of skill training to use (approximately 5 weeks of grinding out the SP cap every single week without purchasing any other skill). Requires a significant amount of CPU / PG to equip which makes it near impossible to equip on lower tier dropsuits (and even high tier ones) without giving up a lot of other equipment.

Players must spec into high-end dropsuits / CPU/PG upgrades in order to equip these with other equipment, adding on to the time required to use these grenades.



Fused Locus Grenades

Price: 15 AUR

CPU Cost: 9

PG Cost: 2

Prerequisites: Zero Requirements

SP Cost: Zero

Blast Radius: 6.0 meters

Damage: 400

Summary: Superior to the Thukker Grenade in almost every aspect. Significantly larger last radius makes it much easier to abuse. Can be purchased by any player who pays for AUR. Requires just a fraction of the CPU/PG cost of the Thukker so it can be fitted on almost any dropsuit loadout without any sacrifices. There is no direct ISK equivalent to this grenade.



Yep, totally a fair system. AUR purchasers definetely don't have the advantage here....

This is the only P2W item in the entire game. Quit calling it P2W as soon as you see one item out of line...

TBF this is the only instance where AUR items are better than ISK.
CCP should improve the quality of the Thukker, as theyve said they do not intend Dust to be p2w, but I'm not about to riot.
If the thukker had better blast radius no one would complain (though I'd rather see a decrease to the fused).

If the thukker had better blast radius no one would complain (though I'd rather see a decrease to the fused).

I don't know whether to feel pity for this company's stupidity.

Or annoyed at them for treating their customers as idiots.

tbh this game seems to get worse on almost a daily basis now.

If it had ever crossed my mind to try EVE, after this experience, Hell would have to freeze.

I really wanted this game to be what it promised. I foolishly believed ccp's marketing BS. Lesson learned, will not be caught twice.

the fused grenade damage is high considering you can spam them with a hive and pepper the battlefield with high explosives and kill and wound hostiles in a wide are. You can hold off a whole army

You could not like...be in throwing range of them. I hear that works

Most of your noobs are not going to have any idea what is going on, other than that they are being repeatedly blown to smithereens and no way to counter it.

Thukker Contact Locus Grenade

Price: 23,190 ISK

CPU Cost: 48

PG Cost: 6

Prequisites: Weaponry 3, Explosives 1, Grenadier 5

SP Cost: 1,417,760 SP

Blast Radius: 2.5 meters

Damage: 600

Summary: Inferior to the AUR version in every aspect other than direct damage. Requires an enormous amount of skill training to use (approximately 5 weeks of grinding out the SP cap every single week without purchasing any other skill). Requires a significant amount of CPU / PG to equip which makes it near impossible to equip on lower tier dropsuits (and even high tier ones) without giving up a lot of other equipment.

Players must spec into high-end dropsuits / CPU/PG upgrades in order to equip these with other equipment, adding on to the time required to use these grenades.



Fused Locus Grenades

Price: 15 AUR

CPU Cost: 9

PG Cost: 2

Prerequisites: Zero Requirements

SP Cost: Zero

Blast Radius: 6.0 meters

Damage: 400

Summary: Superior to the Thukker Grenade in almost every aspect. Significantly wider blast radius makes it much easier to abuse. Can be purchased by any player who pays for AUR. Requires just a fraction of the CPU/PG cost of the Thukker so it can be fitted on almost any dropsuit loadout without any sacrifices. There is no direct ISK equivalent to this grenade.



Yep, totally a fair system. AUR purchasers definetely don't have the advantage here....

I have to disagree.

If your that worried about a grenades being op, then take to the hills and snipe.
Even in the started sniper gear, you'll drop targets with a good head shot or two.

Don't fancy that then skill into the HAV's
Better yet an attack ship, swooping through the air raining down destruction and death from above.
You gotta play the music to go with it if you pick this method:- Ride Of The Valkyries

Yes, all valid counters that your 1 day old blueberry is probably not going to know about unless they have previous FPS experience (or have been fortunate enough to join Dust University). All the people who just download the game to give it a try (having no idea what EvE/Dust is about) and then get pub stomped because vets will create an alt, buy some contact grenades, join the Instant Battle Academy and have a field day.

And yes, better matchmaking would solve this problem. Yes, I will HTFU...but will they? There is already too much gear disparity between experienced players and the completely ignorant, born today merc clone. Do we really need more?

It's very fitting that you chose the music played during the village massacre in Apocalypse Now :)

Thukker Contact Locus Grenade

Price: 23,190 ISK

CPU Cost: 48

PG Cost: 6

Prequisites: Weaponry 3, Explosives 1, Grenadier 5

SP Cost: 1,417,760 SP

Blast Radius: 2.5 meters

Damage: 600

Summary: Inferior to the AUR version in every aspect other than direct damage. Requires an enormous amount of skill training to use (approximately 5 weeks of grinding out the SP cap every single week without purchasing any other skill). Requires a significant amount of CPU / PG to equip which makes it near impossible to equip on lower tier dropsuits (and even high tier ones) without giving up a lot of other equipment.

Players must spec into high-end dropsuits / CPU/PG upgrades in order to equip these with other equipment, adding on to the time required to use these grenades.



Fused Locus Grenades

Price: 15 AUR

CPU Cost: 9

PG Cost: 2

Prerequisites: Zero Requirements

SP Cost: Zero

Blast Radius: 6.0 meters

Damage: 400

Summary: Superior to the Thukker Grenade in almost every aspect. Significantly wider blast radius makes it much easier to abuse. Can be purchased by any player who pays for AUR. Requires just a fraction of the CPU/PG cost of the Thukker so it can be fitted on almost any dropsuit loadout without any sacrifices. There is no direct ISK equivalent to this grenade.



Yep, totally a fair system. AUR purchasers definetely don't have the advantage here....

It's too bad EVE players have no balls and they make up over half the community.

CCP don't want Dust to be Pay to Win. If you find something that is genuinely P2W then report it in the defects forum and they'll treat it like any other bug.

They aren't trying to pull a fast one or anything; they just make mistakes occasionally.

CCP don't want Dust to be Pay to Win. If you find something that is genuinely P2W then report it in the defects forum and they'll treat it like any other bug.

They aren't trying to pull a fast one or anything; they just make mistakes occasionally.

This is the only P2W item in the entire game. Quit calling it P2W as soon as you see one item out of line...

But yes you are right this aur item is way out of line as it's so easy to get and so so powerful. To redo this they should rename it hacked thukker contact locus grenade or something like that and make it have the exact same stats as the thukker contact grenade. Only exception should of course be that you can get these at level 3 grenadier. Bum bum problem solved.

Ohh and when it comes to implementing lower level contact grenade variants ... DO NOT DO THAT !!
Just like AR's the more you skill into it the more exotic variants you get to use.

Who cares if it is pay to win? We are all investing a game here. Get a job or ask mommy and daddy to buy you some. I would hope the more money spent on this game equals a better product. AUR weapons and AUR tanks are a huge target everyone I know loves to make people spend real dough.

If we get a better game out of it so be it.

No, if people really want to keep contact grenades then it is the AUR version that needs a nerf, not the ISK version that needs a buff.

Thukker Contact Locus Grenade

Price: 23,190 ISK

CPU Cost: 48

PG Cost: 6

Prequisites: Weaponry 3, Explosives 1, Grenadier 5

SP Cost: 1,417,760 SP

Blast Radius: 2.5 meters

Damage: 600

Summary: Inferior to the AUR version in every aspect other than direct damage. Requires an enormous amount of skill training to use (approximately 5 weeks of grinding out the SP cap every single week without purchasing any other skill). Requires a significant amount of CPU / PG to equip which makes it near impossible to equip on lower tier dropsuits (and even high tier ones) without giving up a lot of other equipment.

Players must spec into high-end dropsuits / CPU/PG upgrades in order to equip these with other equipment, adding on to the time required to use these grenades.



Fused Locus Grenades

Price: 15 AUR

CPU Cost: 9

PG Cost: 2

Prerequisites: Zero Requirements

SP Cost: Zero

Blast Radius: 6.0 meters

Damage: 400

Summary: Superior to the Thukker Grenade in almost every aspect. Significantly wider blast radius makes it much easier to abuse. Can be purchased by any player who pays for AUR. Requires just a fraction of the CPU/PG cost of the Thukker so it can be fitted on almost any dropsuit loadout without any sacrifices. There is no direct ISK equivalent to this grenade.



Yep, totally a fair system. AUR purchasers definetely don't have the advantage here....

I don't know whether to feel pity for this company's stupidity.

Or annoyed at them for treating their customers as idiots.

tbh this game seems to get worse on almost a daily basis now.

If it had ever crossed my mind to try EVE, after this experience, Hell would have to freeze.

I really wanted this game to be what it promised. I foolishly believed ccp's marketing BS. Lesson learned, will not be caught twice.

CCP don't want Dust to be Pay to Win. If you find something that is genuinely P2W then report it in the defects forum and they'll treat it like any other bug.

They aren't trying to pull a fast one or anything; they just make mistakes occasionally.

Oh ffs, how's that Koolaid taste?

I'm honestly not trying be an ass but what exactly are you saying? That CCP did it on purpose and hoped no one would notice? Or that they want to implement single items here and there hoping no one will mind as long as it slowly becomes completely P2W?

Or something else entirely?

Either it's intentional, or it's not. Either is extremely damaging to their reputation, considering there has yet to be a time since the beginning of the closed beta that there hasn't been at least one P2W item in the market. Besides, it's not like they don't continue to put out new P2W items.

Even new players can pretty quickly spot the P2W stuff, are you trying to tell me CCP employees can't compare the stats of the items they are putting out with the ISK versions already on the game? Give me a break man.

Who cares if it is pay to win? We are all investing a game here. Get a job or ask mommy and daddy to buy you some. I would hope the more money spent on this game equals a better product. AUR weapons and AUR tanks are a huge target everyone I know loves to make people spend real dough.

If we get a better game out of it so be it.

Thukker Contact Locus Grenade

Price: 23,190 ISK

CPU Cost: 48

PG Cost: 6

Prequisites: Weaponry 3, Explosives 1, Grenadier 5

SP Cost: 1,417,760 SP

Blast Radius: 2.5 meters

Damage: 600

Summary: Inferior to the AUR version in every aspect other than direct damage. Requires an enormous amount of skill training to use (approximately 5 weeks of grinding out the SP cap every single week without purchasing any other skill). Requires a significant amount of CPU / PG to equip which makes it near impossible to equip on lower tier dropsuits (and even high tier ones) without giving up a lot of other equipment.

Players must spec into high-end dropsuits / CPU/PG upgrades in order to equip these with other equipment, adding on to the time required to use these grenades.



Fused Locus Grenades

Price: 15 AUR

CPU Cost: 9

PG Cost: 2

Prerequisites: Zero Requirements

SP Cost: Zero

Blast Radius: 6.0 meters

Damage: 400

Summary: Superior to the Thukker Grenade in almost every aspect. Significantly wider blast radius makes it much easier to abuse. Can be purchased by any player who pays for AUR. Requires just a fraction of the CPU/PG cost of the Thukker so it can be fitted on almost any dropsuit loadout without any sacrifices. There is no direct ISK equivalent to this grenade.



Yep, totally a fair system. AUR purchasers definetely don't have the advantage here....

Thukker Contact Locus Grenade

Price: 23,190 ISK

CPU Cost: 48

PG Cost: 6

Prequisites: Weaponry 3, Explosives 1, Grenadier 5

SP Cost: 1,417,760 SP

Blast Radius: 2.5 meters

Damage: 600

Summary: Inferior to the AUR version in every aspect other than direct damage. Requires an enormous amount of skill training to use (approximately 5 weeks of grinding out the SP cap every single week without purchasing any other skill). Requires a significant amount of CPU / PG to equip which makes it near impossible to equip on lower tier dropsuits (and even high tier ones) without giving up a lot of other equipment.

Players must spec into high-end dropsuits / CPU/PG upgrades in order to equip these with other equipment, adding on to the time required to use these grenades.



Fused Locus Grenades

Price: 15 AUR

CPU Cost: 9

PG Cost: 2

Prerequisites: Zero Requirements

SP Cost: Zero

Blast Radius: 6.0 meters

Damage: 400

Summary: Superior to the Thukker Grenade in almost every aspect. Significantly wider blast radius makes it much easier to abuse. Can be purchased by any player who pays for AUR. Requires just a fraction of the CPU/PG cost of the Thukker so it can be fitted on almost any dropsuit loadout without any sacrifices. There is no direct ISK equivalent to this grenade.



Yep, totally a fair system. AUR purchasers definetely don't have the advantage here....

You guys will clutch at absolutely everything to cry about. As a contact grenade the only stat that actually bloody matters is the direct damage. If you miss, you did it wrong and REGULAR grenades would have been a better option.

I really don't see the problem. The contact greandes need contact to deal direct damage and the AUR one is WORSE at dealing direct damage than the ISK one? And yet it's still pay to win?

"OMG ALL THE STATS ARE BETTER EXCEPT THE ONE THAT MATTERS P2W FFS CCP!"

Also it's absolutely ******** to look at stats in a vacuum. Direct comparisons don't work. "Oh but a normal grenade can be avoided!" That it can, and while they're avoiding it they're not shooting at you. The trade off is this: Direct Contact grenades are harder to use and have less splash at the cost of losing their CC ability.

Regular grenades have a larger blast and are easier to use on a time delayed fuse, the trade off is they let you relocate in saftey and cause CC. A failure on the enemies part to heed that grenade warning nets you a kill. Please actually LEARN how to use ALL the tools in your inventory rather than just looking at what nets you the most kills.

This method of WHINING is what gave us games like CoD.

Also you people are crazy.

You guys will clutch at absolutely everything to cry about. As a contact grenade the only stat that actually bloody matters is the direct damage. If you miss, you did it wrong and REGULAR grenades would have been a better option.

I really don't see the problem. The contact greandes need contact to deal direct damage and the AUR one is WORSE at dealing direct damage than the ISK one? And yet it's still pay to win?

"OMG ALL THE STATS ARE BETTER EXCEPT THE ONE THAT MATTERS P2W FFS CCP!"

Also it's absolutely ******** to look at stats in a vacuum. Direct comparisons don't work. "Oh but a normal grenade can be avoided!" That it can, and while they're avoiding it they're not shooting at you. The trade off is this: Direct Contact grenades are harder to use and have less splash at the cost of losing their CC ability.

Regular grenades have a larger blast and are easier to use on a time delayed fuse, the trade off is they let you relocate in saftey and cause CC. A failure on the enemies part to heed that grenade warning nets you a kill. Please actually LEARN how to use ALL the tools in your inventory rather than just looking at what nets you the most kills.

This method of WHINING is what gave us games like CoD.

Also you people are crazy.

Everyone with eyes can see that the contact explosives have no place in this game.

OP, pay2Win, whatever.... they're ultra lame. Why bother balancing things like SMGs, HMGs, and ARs when you're just going to add a weapon that instantaneously one shots 90% of the player base in an instant with no cook off or tell.

Defending contact grenades is something someone who likes the current strafe speed on scouts would do.

Let's say you and I are in a shoot out, We're both new players. I bought AUR and used it to acquire no skill fused locus grenades, you didn't.

Who wins the fight?

Anyone?


Anyone?


Bueller?

And he should be punished for that because?~

Pretty sure CCP have been saying for a long time (Though not forever, no) that AUR items let you circumvent skill requirements. Hell, don't the announcement on the war-barge say "Short on time? Short on skills? Purchase Aurum today!" if I recall rightly?

He skipped the skill requirement by buying an item. That's what the item is there for. That's what Aurum is there for. He's not paid to win, he's paid-to-get-it-earlier-than-you. Which is fine. That's freemium for you. He has no unfair advantage against anyone whos' been around for a week.

He does if he bought skill boosters. Skill boosters don't simply let you draw from the weekly pool faster, they add 50% to the total pool overall allowing the player that pays to gain a substantial advantage over the non paying player. In two weeks you are one week ahead of the free to play player, in 4 your are two - then 2 months down the road the Paying player is an entire month ahead.

If you don't think that player is going to win more often, especially with this watered down strafing we have now, simply because they payed, you're lying to yourself. How is that not the very definition of pay to win?

Thukker Contact Locus Grenade

Price: 23,190 ISK

CPU Cost: 48

PG Cost: 6

Prequisites: Weaponry 3, Explosives 1, Grenadier 5

SP Cost: 1,417,760 SP

Blast Radius: 2.5 meters

Damage: 600

Summary: Inferior to the AUR version in every aspect other than direct damage. Requires an enormous amount of skill training to use (approximately 5 weeks of grinding out the SP cap every single week without purchasing any other skill). Requires a significant amount of CPU / PG to equip which makes it near impossible to equip on lower tier dropsuits (and even high tier ones) without giving up a lot of other equipment.

Players must spec into high-end dropsuits / CPU/PG upgrades in order to equip these with other equipment, adding on to the time required to use these grenades.



Fused Locus Grenades

Price: 15 AUR

CPU Cost: 9

PG Cost: 2

Prerequisites: Zero Requirements

SP Cost: Zero

Blast Radius: 6.0 meters

Damage: 400

Summary: Superior to the Thukker Grenade in almost every aspect. Significantly wider blast radius makes it much easier to abuse. Can be purchased by any player who pays for AUR. Requires just a fraction of the CPU/PG cost of the Thukker so it can be fitted on almost any dropsuit loadout without any sacrifices. There is no direct ISK equivalent to this grenade.



Yep, totally a fair system. AUR purchasers definetely don't have the advantage here....

CCP's chief marketing officer, David Reid, has compared this model to that of League of Legends. Reid has added that Dust 514 is not a "pay-to-win" game Aurum can only be used to buy cosmetic items or items similar to what can be earned ingame without paying real money.

Thats mean CCP marketing chief David Reid lying?!

That's not paying to win. That's paying to get ahead faster. Paying to win is me buying a dropsuit and gun that is, in every way better, faster, stronger, with more slots and higher resists than anything you can get with ISK.

Paying to get an item without skill requirements, or to get those skills sooner? ... That's not P2W. And people who don't understand what P2W is are always the ones who cry the loudest about Microtransactions.

What World of Tanks did with gold ammo was pay to win, something they're now rapidly moving away from due to the horribly bad rep it gave them. The trade off is this: If you don't pay a penny, you get the game for free. If you pay into it, you get things sooner.

But you never pay to win.

You don't just get ahead faster buying boosters, you get ahead permanently and, over time, substantially..

This divide will heretofore be known as the SP Abyss, the game will one day fall into it.

In the E3 build, I ran standard Type II assault suits with proto SMGs and competed rather well landing in the top 10 most of the build.

In this build, the difference in gear and lack of strafe speed favoring SP over player skill, that is not possible - and it's just not fun either.

as soon as we get the player market you can just stfu about p2w. want some real pay to win go try battlefield play for free.

Pay to win means an isk unbuyable item, or only aur items.

Is that happening right now? No

Pay to win means an isk unbuyable item, or only aur items.

Is that happening right now? No

Would you rather pay subscriptions like in eve?

Actually yes, i will. By my calculations i will spend alot less money, and get alot more. With a subscription CCP won't have the excuse that is F2P game, and they will have to deliver alot more, alot faster.

Contact grenades shouldn't even be in the game. Neither Isk or Aurum versions.

Lately, I haven't seen many people use these in a while. So it's not a big problem for me until everybody starts running around throwing grenades at my feet.

But the game isn't pay to win

What I find down right pathetic is that not one single Red or Blue Tag has posted one thing in this thread!

It is almost like they have conceded to defeat!

They have their hands up and are saying, " Okay guys you got us, this game is P2W because we need to get paid."

I don't know whether to feel pity for this company's stupidity.

Or annoyed at them for treating their customers as idiots.

tbh this game seems to get worse on almost a daily basis now.

If it had ever crossed my mind to try EVE, after this experience, Hell would have to freeze.

I really wanted this game to be what it promised. I foolishly believed ccp's marketing BS. Lesson learned, will not be caught twice.

No, it's probably because if the other 10,735 threads in which they've posted:

"Player market is coming, all AUR items will be available for ISK. We're working on it but don't know when it will be ready. The only thing we can say is when it's done we'll add it to the game."

And then people continue bitching about it so what's the point in even posting on the topic. This has been an issue for something like 7 months or more so they're probably just sick and tired of wasting time trying to explain it.

And what a lot of you don't realize is the player market is actually going to be a boost to AUR sales since EVE players would be able to convert real money to ISK by selling AUR items on the market. AUR sales will most likely increase or at the very least remain unchanged as soon as the market is up and running. CCP isn't sitting on it just to make more money, they're probably losing money by not having it operational.

As I understand the plan there will only be one player market between the games so they have to make sure that when they deploy it in DUST it doesn't screw up the EVE market. Since EVE represents 50% of their released games and a pretty much they're only reliable source of revenue I can see why they're being very careful to make sure it works.

That being said trying to sneak these superior AUR items is shady business. I sincerely hope it's just an honest mistake and can be blamed on the hectic nature of deploying patches for a game that you're still in the process of developing.

**The short version is I don't think CCP is purposefully keeping the market out of the game to make money because it's probably costing them money, they're just being careful. Things like the fused grenades are stupid mistakes on their part and need to be addressed. CCP is guilty of some monumental mistakes with this game but I'm not ready to say it's been intentional malice, just gross incompetence.

It's funny how when a noob comes on complaining about being dominated by players with proto gear all these so called vets come on here and say gear doesn't matter, adapt or die, and if your a skilled player the suit differences are marginal. Then every three weeks the same vets post about the game being p2w and the unfair advantages of AUR gear....Lame

I say take this AUR item out as it levels the playing field for new players ... And who need's new players right ?
We could ***** about how all the beta players got their sp carried over . I didn't get a chance for that .
I cry unfair .... nerf em .
Sp Gap ....cry cry ?

This stuff that makes the top players ***** that noobs are killing em ..... keep .
Or lose your new players that are willing to spend money .

What chance does the new guy have against a ur squad?
I mean FFS ....

And really do you want these peasants playing your game if they can't afford 0.75 cents ..... I mean really guys .
It's not a 100,000 AUR item .

Get a job kids , This is a free game .
You are gonna spend at least 60 $ on any other new game.
Go buy some DLC and quit crying .

Imma go buy some just cause I know it twists ur panties up.

My god quit whining FFS, First it was TAC rifles now grenades? GTFO I get killed by Militia friggen grenades more than i do fused grenades. Fused grenades have been in the game much longer then you fking panzys. ANYTHING that kills people like you in a game your gonna ***** moan and complain its over powered GET OVER IT. Dont wanna die by them JUMP AND STRAFE! Get good scrub until then stfu about everything being OP. First ya bitched about not haveing fused grenades for isk THEN CCP gave them to you! Now you cry about what you've been given SERIOUSLY?! STFU and go play the game!

pay to win, Which this game clearly is not just a bunch of babys crying as usual.

I paid $20 and havent won anything.

What exactly does P2W mean?

Thukker Contact Locus Grenade

Price: 23,190 ISK

CPU Cost: 48

PG Cost: 6

Prequisites: Weaponry 3, Explosives 1, Grenadier 5

SP Cost: 1,417,760 SP

Blast Radius: 2.5 meters

Damage: 600

Summary: Inferior to the AUR version in every aspect other than direct damage. Requires an enormous amount of skill training to use (approximately 5 weeks of grinding out the SP cap every single week without purchasing any other skill). Requires a significant amount of CPU / PG to equip which makes it near impossible to equip on lower tier dropsuits (and even high tier ones) without giving up a lot of other equipment.

Players must spec into high-end dropsuits / CPU/PG upgrades in order to equip these with other equipment, adding on to the time required to use these grenades.



Fused Locus Grenades

Price: 15 AUR

CPU Cost: 9

PG Cost: 2

Prerequisites: Zero Requirements

SP Cost: Zero

Blast Radius: 6.0 meters

Damage: 400

Summary: Superior to the Thukker Grenade in almost every aspect. Significantly wider blast radius makes it much easier to abuse. Can be purchased by any player who pays for AUR. Requires just a fraction of the CPU/PG cost of the Thukker so it can be fitted on almost any dropsuit loadout without any sacrifices. There is no direct ISK equivalent to this grenade.



Yep, totally a fair system. AUR purchasers definetely don't have the advantage here....

Thanks for the simple comparison to shut up the fanbois. They cant dent this one.

CCP has yet to fix it, because they wont. It is currently the largest money maker they got

pay to win, Which this game clearly is not just a bunch of babys crying as usual.

In gaming, "pay to win" is a term used to describe a situation in which the game offers items for real world currency that are superior to the items available through purely in-game terms. Since Dust 514 has multiple examples of this practice, it is by definition, P2W.

It's not hard to understand, and I don't see how anyone who understands the concept could argue otherwise.

Aside from the one pointed out, which others are there? Calling the game P2W would suggest this is a repeated or pervasive practice, yet we only have one example which for all we know could be an unintended oversight.

Contact grenades are near game breaking and having performance differences between the AUR and ISK variants is Pay2win - plain and simple.

EDIT: Oh wait, I'm sorry. The game isn't Pay2Win - they said so at fanfest. Plus the COMMUNITY would go BALLISTIC if it were true... So it can't be true otherwise someone from the community would speak up about it and we would all be like ROOOOOOAAAAAR and CCP's faces would melt like they just opened the Ark of the Covenant.

Thukker Contact Locus Grenade

Price: 23,190 ISK

CPU Cost: 48

PG Cost: 6

Prequisites: Weaponry 3, Explosives 1, Grenadier 5

SP Cost: 1,417,760 SP

Blast Radius: 2.5 meters

Damage: 600

Summary: Inferior to the AUR version in every aspect other than direct damage. Requires an enormous amount of skill training to use (approximately 5 weeks of grinding out the SP cap every single week without purchasing any other skill). Requires a significant amount of CPU / PG to equip which makes it near impossible to equip on lower tier dropsuits (and even high tier ones) without giving up a lot of other equipment.

Players must spec into high-end dropsuits / CPU/PG upgrades in order to equip these with other equipment, adding on to the time required to use these grenades.



Fused Locus Grenades

Price: 15 AUR

CPU Cost: 9

PG Cost: 2

Prerequisites: Zero Requirements

SP Cost: Zero

Blast Radius: 6.0 meters

Damage: 400

Summary: Superior to the Thukker Grenade in almost every aspect. Significantly wider blast radius makes it much easier to abuse. Can be purchased by any player who pays for AUR. Requires just a fraction of the CPU/PG cost of the Thukker so it can be fitted on almost any dropsuit loadout without any sacrifices. There is no direct ISK equivalent to this grenade.



Yep, totally a fair system. AUR purchasers definetely don't have the advantage here....

blah blah blah There's always one or two items that pop up like this blah blah blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Sorry but you're wrong. Contact grenades are indeed pay to win items that make a large impact on the battlefield. How can you think otherwise?

Right now, the grenades and the Blood Raider Saga are Pay to Win.

A good argument can be made that the boosters are also Pay to Win, but I'm not sure I buy it.

At any given time there has been at least one pay to win item in the market.


This isn't a difficult thing to NOT do, all they have to do is compare the item they are about to release onto the market, with the ISK version of the same item. If the AUR version is better, it's Pay to WIn. You can't possibly believe that this isn't something they can do. It's ridiculous to argue that they don't know they are putting Pay to Win items on the market.

They put them on the market until we complain, then they replace them with a new Pay to Win item. I mean, open your eyes dude. You even agree that they do it, but then turn around and simply pretend like they don't and attack those who point it out. It's ridiculous.

Who cares if it is pay to win? We are all investing a game here. Get a job or ask mommy and daddy to buy you some. I would hope the more money spent on this game equals a better product. AUR weapons and AUR tanks are a huge target everyone I know loves to make people spend real dough.

If we get a better game out of it so be it.

Those AUR contact grenades also came with the merc pack which said any items in the pack that were removed from the game would be replaced by something of equal value. Perhaps CCP put the grenades on the market so they would have a set value in order to remove them from the game.

Just offering a counterpoint. Because like I've been saying, it's got nothing to do with me being blind to what CCP is doing but I just don't think "Say there won't be any P2W items and then start adding P2W items" is some kind of master plan they have. They know the players will notice it and they know there will be an uproar so what's the endgame for them? That we'll just forget? I'm sorry, I just don't see it being more than a mistake or done temporarily for a good reason.

And boosters are not pay 2 win, people that think that can stop whining. When you fly in coach you don't get free drinks and a reclining seat but you still get to the same destination as first class. Your journey was just a little less pleasant.

As far as booster, the argument is that you can never catch up to someone who buys the boosters every week. They will always be ahead, and the longer the game goes along, the further ahead they will get. They are literally paying for an advantage that can never be made up.

This would only be true if:

1. There was no upper bound on growth
2. Every skill in the game would benefit all playstyles and affect all modules and stats
3. SP was useful in and of itself

Since none of those things are true then a player using boosters could certainly "do more", but they wouldn't be able to do anything better than a player without a booster.

Or you could just suck it up until the market is ready and buy them for ISK. I'm aware I keep saying that over and over but that's because it's true.

This would only be true if:

1. There was no upper bound on growth
2. Every skill in the game would benefit all playstyles and affect all modules and stats
3. SP was useful in and of itself

Since none of those things are true then a player using boosters could certainly "do more", but they wouldn't be able to do anything better than a player without a booster.

Or you could just suck it up until the market is ready and buy them for ISK. I'm aware I keep saying that over and over but that's because it's true.