|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1610
   |
Posted - 2013.06.15 03:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Don't forget the Blood Raider Saga, another blatant P2W item. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1612
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 03:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:CCP don't want Dust to be Pay to Win. If you find something that is genuinely P2W then report it in the defects forum and they'll treat it like any other bug.
They aren't trying to pull a fast one or anything; they just make mistakes occasionally.
Oh ffs, how's that Koolaid taste? |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1615
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 04:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Baal Roo wrote:R F Gyro wrote:CCP don't want Dust to be Pay to Win. If you find something that is genuinely P2W then report it in the defects forum and they'll treat it like any other bug.
They aren't trying to pull a fast one or anything; they just make mistakes occasionally. Oh ffs, how's that Koolaid taste? I'm honestly not trying be an ass but what exactly are you saying? That CCP did it on purpose and hoped no one would notice? Or that they want to implement single items here and there hoping no one will mind as long as it slowly becomes completely P2W? Or something else entirely?
Either it's intentional, or it's not. Either is extremely damaging to their reputation, considering there has yet to be a time since the beginning of the closed beta that there hasn't been at least one P2W item in the market. Besides, it's not like they don't continue to put out new P2W items.
Even new players can pretty quickly spot the P2W stuff, are you trying to tell me CCP employees can't compare the stats of the items they are putting out with the ISK versions already on the game? Give me a break man. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1642
|
Posted - 2013.06.16 22:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vallud Eadesso wrote:Ignatius Crumwald wrote:Vallud Eadesso wrote:Ignatius Crumwald wrote:Let's say you and I are in a shoot out, We're both new players. I bought AUR and used it to acquire no skill fused locus grenades, you didn't.
Who wins the fight?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller? And he should be punished for that because?~ Pretty sure CCP have been saying for a long time (Though not forever, no) that AUR items let you circumvent skill requirements. Hell, don't the announcement on the war-barge say "Short on time? Short on skills? Purchase Aurum today!" if I recall rightly? He skipped the skill requirement by buying an item. That's what the item is there for. That's what Aurum is there for. He's not paid to win, he's paid-to-get-it-earlier-than-you. Which is fine. That's freemium for you. He has no unfair advantage against anyone whos' been around for a week. He does if he bought skill boosters. Skill boosters don't simply let you draw from the weekly pool faster, they add 50% to the total pool overall allowing the player that pays to gain a substantial advantage over the non paying player. In two weeks you are one week ahead of the free to play player, in 4 your are two - then 2 months down the road the Paying player is an entire month ahead. If you don't think that player is going to win more often, especially with this watered down strafing we have now, simply because they payed, you're lying to yourself. How is that not the very definition of pay to win? That's not paying to win. That's paying to get ahead faster. Paying to win is me buying a dropsuit and gun that is, in every way better, faster, stronger, with more slots and higher resists than anything you can get with ISK. Paying to get an item without skill requirements, or to get those skills sooner? ... That's not P2W. And people who don't understand what P2W is are always the ones who cry the loudest about Microtransactions. What World of Tanks did with gold ammo was pay to win, something they're now rapidly moving away from due to the horribly bad rep it gave them. The trade off is this: If you don't pay a penny, you get the game for free. If you pay into it, you get things sooner. But you never pay to win.
Two equal players. One pays money for boosters and better gear, the other does not.
Your argument that "getting ahead faster" doesn't mean one player is paying to win versus the other is just plain silly. The end result of "getting ahead faster" is that you're going to win more often. You're just playing a semantics game, and so is CCP.
That aside, there has yet to be a point where there wasn't at least one item in the market that does not have an ISK counterpart. The main argument during the beta for this was that there would be a player market by launch, and thus all of the seemingly P2W items (including the boosters) would be purchasable with ISK from other players. This is clearly not the case.
Even if you want to argue that the contact grenades aren't P2W, how about the Blood Raider Saga? |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1662
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 04:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
boba's fetta wrote:as soon as we get the player market you can just stfu about p2w. want some real pay to win go try battlefield play for free.
Yes, it's possible that at some point in the future the game will no longer be p2w. Great argument. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1674
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 21:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mikey HeLikesIt wrote:Pay to win means an isk unbuyable item, or only aur items.
Is that happening right now? No
uh, yes. are you blind? |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1715
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 23:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
KERINMalik wrote:I paid $20 and havent won anything.
What exactly does P2W mean?
In gaming, "pay to win" is a term used to describe a situation in which the game offers items for real world currency that are superior to the items available through purely in-game terms. Since Dust 514 has multiple examples of this practice, it is by definition, P2W.
It's not hard to understand, and I don't see how anyone who understands the concept could argue otherwise. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1721
|
Posted - 2013.06.27 20:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:
Aside from the one pointed out, which others are there? Calling the game P2W would suggest this is a repeated or pervasive practice, yet we only have one example which for all we know could be an unintended oversight.
blah blah blah There's always one or two items that pop up like this blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Right now, the grenades and the Blood Raider Saga are Pay to Win. At any given time there has been at least one pay to win item in the market. This isn't a difficult thing to NOT do, all they have to do is compare the item they are about to release onto the market, with the ISK version of the same item. If the AUR version is better, it's Pay to WIn. You can't possibly believe that this isn't something they can do. It's ridiculous to argue that they don't know they are putting Pay to Win items on the market.
They put them on the market until we complain, then they replace them with a new Pay to Win item. I mean, open your eyes dude. You even agree that they do it, but then turn around and simply pretend like they don't and attack those who point it out. It's ridiculous. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1722
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 02:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:
Aside from the one pointed out, which others are there? Calling the game P2W would suggest this is a repeated or pervasive practice, yet we only have one example which for all we know could be an unintended oversight.
blah blah blah There's always one or two items that pop up like this blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Right now, the grenades and the Blood Raider Saga are Pay to Win. A good argument can be made that the boosters are also Pay to Win, but I'm not sure I buy it. At any given time there has been at least one pay to win item in the market. This isn't a difficult thing to NOT do, all they have to do is compare the item they are about to release onto the market, with the ISK version of the same item. If the AUR version is better, it's Pay to WIn. You can't possibly believe that this isn't something they can do. It's ridiculous to argue that they don't know they are putting Pay to Win items on the market. They put them on the market until we complain, then they replace them with a new Pay to Win item. I mean, open your eyes dude. You even agree that they do it, but then turn around and simply pretend like they don't and attack those who point it out. It's ridiculous. Those AUR contact grenades also came with the merc pack which said any items in the pack that were removed from the game would be replaced by something of equal value. Perhaps CCP put the grenades on the market so they would have a set value in order to remove them from the game. Just offering a counterpoint. Because like I've been saying, it's got nothing to do with me being blind to what CCP is doing but I just don't think "Say there won't be any P2W items and then start adding P2W items" is some kind of master plan they have. They know the players will notice it and they know there will be an uproar so what's the endgame for them? That we'll just forget? I'm sorry, I just don't see it being more than a mistake or done temporarily for a good reason. And boosters are not pay 2 win, people that think that can stop whining. When you fly in coach you don't get free drinks and a reclining seat but you still get to the same destination as first class. Your journey was just a little less pleasant.
Either it's intentional, or they are terribly inept. Neither bode well for their reputation.
As far as booster, the argument is that you can never catch up to someone who buys the boosters every week. They will always be ahead, and the longer the game goes along, the further ahead they will get. They are literally paying for an advantage that can never be made up.
|
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1725
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 09:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Baal Roo wrote:
As far as booster, the argument is that you can never catch up to someone who buys the boosters every week. They will always be ahead, and the longer the game goes along, the further ahead they will get. They are literally paying for an advantage that can never be made up.
This would only be true if: 1. There was no upper bound on growth 2. Every skill in the game would benefit all playstyles and affect all modules and stats 3. SP was useful in and of itself Since none of those things are true then a player using boosters could certainly "do more", but they wouldn't be able to do anything better than a player without a booster. Or you could just suck it up until the market is ready and buy them for ISK. I'm aware I keep saying that over and over but that's because it's true.
Of course it's true, but it's an awful sales pitch. We're playing, so clearly we agree. The problem is the people who see that it's got p2w items and don't play. |
|
|
|
|
| |
|