DUST Search - CCP Continues To Push Pay-To-Win

Baal Roo wrote:

Altina McAlterson wrote:

Promethius Franklin wrote:

Aside from the one pointed out, which others are there? Calling the game P2W would suggest this is a repeated or pervasive practice, yet we only have one example which for all we know could be an unintended oversight.

blah blah blah There's always one or two items that pop up like this blah blah blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Right now, the grenades and the Blood Raider Saga are Pay to Win.

A good argument can be made that the boosters are also Pay to Win, but I'm not sure I buy it.

At any given time there has been at least one pay to win item in the market.

This isn't a difficult thing to NOT do, all they have to do is compare the item they are about to release onto the market, with the ISK version of the same item. If the AUR version is better, it's Pay to WIn. You can't possibly believe that this isn't something they can do. It's ridiculous to argue that they don't know they are putting Pay to Win items on the market.

They put them on the market until we complain, then they replace them with a new Pay to Win item. I mean, open your eyes dude. You even agree that they do it, but then turn around and simply pretend like they don't and attack those who point it out. It's ridiculous.


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Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 548	Posted - 2013.06.15 04:02:00 - [1] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: R F Gyro wrote: CCP don't want Dust to be Pay to Win. If you find something that is genuinely P2W then report it in the defects forum and they'll treat it like any other bug. They aren't trying to pull a fast one or anything; they just make mistakes occasionally. Oh ffs, how's that Koolaid taste? I'm honestly not trying be an ass but what exactly are you saying? That CCP did it on purpose and hoped no one would notice? Or that they want to implement single items here and there hoping no one will mind as long as it slowly becomes completely P2W? Or something else entirely?
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 548	Posted - 2013.06.15 05:52:00 - [2] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: Baal Roo wrote: R F Gyro wrote: CCP don't want Dust to be Pay to Win. If you find something that is genuinely P2W then report it in the defects forum and they'll treat it like any other bug. They aren't trying to pull a fast one or anything; they just make mistakes occasionally. Oh ffs, how's that Koolaid taste? I'm honestly not trying be an ass but what exactly are you saying? That CCP did it on purpose and hoped no one would notice? Or that they want to implement single items here and there hoping no one will mind as long as it slowly becomes completely P2W? Or something else entirely? Either it's intentional, or it's not. Either is extremely damaging to their reputation, considering there has yet to be a time since the beginning of the closed beta that there hasn't been at least one P2W item in the market. Besides, it's not like they don't continue to put out new P2W items. Even new players can pretty quickly spot the P2W stuff, are you trying to tell me CCP employees can't compare the stats of the items they are putting out with the ISK versions already on the game? Give me a break man. I don't know either. It's odd because you think they could just check those things but that's easy to say when we're on the outside looking in. Of course one way to look at it is that it isn't that hard at all to do which is why every other AUR item is equal to the ISK version and this is just one mistake out of many, many successes. Or if it's intentional then that's just completely ******* stupid, but still possible. I've always wondered why this kind of crap keeps popping up. Whether intentional or not CCP is definitely losing lots and lots of points with me every time one of these things shows up.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 548	Posted - 2013.06.17 00:52:00 - [3] - Quote Ignatius Crumwald wrote: You don't just get ahead faster buying boosters, you get ahead permanently and, over time, substantially.. This divide will heretofore be known as the SP Abyss, the game will one day fall into it. In the E3 build, I ran standard Type II assault suits with proto SMGs and competed rather well landing in the top 10 most of the build. In this build, the difference in gear and lack of strafe speed favoring SP over player skill, that is not possible - and it's just not fun either. To a certain degree that's true but since skills max out at lvl V it's far from permanent.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 548	Posted - 2013.06.18 00:30:00 - [4] - Quote Back on topic I think a lot of these concerns could be alleviated if we could at least get an update on the status of the market and where CCP is with getting it in the game. Last I heard was a DEV in the IRC channel said it was mostly finished but there had some serious UI issues to work out.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 549	Posted - 2013.06.19 11:13:00 - [5] - Quote BMSTUBBYxx wrote: What I find down right pathetic is that not one single Red or Blue Tag has posted one thing in this thread! It is almost like they have conceded to defeat! They have their hands up and are saying, " Okay guys you got us, this game is P2W because we need to get paid." No, it's probably because if the other 10,735 threads in which they've posted: "Player market is coming, all AUR items will be available for ISK. We're working on it but don't know when it will be ready. The only thing we can say is when it's done we'll add it to the game." And then people continue bitching about it so what's the point in even posting on the topic. This has been an issue for something like 7 months or more so they're probably just sick and tired of wasting time trying to explain it. And what a lot of you don't realize is the player market is actually going to be a boost to AUR sales since EVE players would be able to convert real money to ISK by selling AUR items on the market. AUR sales will most likely increase or at the very least remain unchanged as soon as the market is up and running. CCP isn't sitting on it just to make more money, they're probably losing money by not having it operational. As I understand the plan there will only be one player market between the games so they have to make sure that when they deploy it in DUST it doesn't screw up the EVE market. Since EVE represents 50% of their released games and a pretty much they're only reliable source of revenue I can see why they're being very careful to make sure it works. That being said trying to sneak these superior AUR items is shady business. I sincerely hope it's just an honest mistake and can be blamed on the hectic nature of deploying patches for a game that you're still in the process of developing. **The short version is I don't think CCP is purposefully keeping the market out of the game to make money because it's probably costing them money, they're just being careful. Things like the fused grenades are stupid mistakes on their part and need to be addressed. CCP is guilty of some monumental mistakes with this game but I'm not ready to say it's been intentional malice, just gross incompetence.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 562	Posted - 2013.06.25 03:00:00 - [6] - Quote Denny655 wrote: Thanks for the simple comparison to shut up the fanbois. They cant dent this one. CCP has yet to fix it, because they wont. It is currently the largest money maker they got I believe these grenades just went on the market with this last patch and before were only available by buying a merc pack, correct? So they have yet to fix it because it was just introduced with the last content update so it can't be fixed until the next batch of content. And also the top 5 items are Passive Booster, Active Booster, Dragonfly Scout, AUR Proto Shield Extender and AUR Proto Armor plate according to the front page there so I'm not really sure where you get your facts. There is a player market coming where AUR items can be bought and sold for ISK. It currently isn't ready and no one knows how long it will take before it is in the game, but they are working on it and it is a major part of the game so it will be up and running as soon as they can make it work. So right now the items are unbalanced. Call it "P2W" or not I don't care...they're not balanced and P2W. Eventually they'll be available to ISK, maybe there will be some kind of time frame in the upcoming roadmap update. Can't tell you how long it will be but wouldn't want anyone reading this thread to think that these types of AUR items are never going to be available to people that don't spend real money since no body brought up the market. I'm sure it was a simple mistake and they weren't trying to make the game look bad by misrepresenting the current situation as an intentional plot for CCP to steal and lie to everyone. In fact if you really think about it opening the market will probably mean much more AUR being sold than there is now, as long as the game start improving anyway.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 564	Posted - 2013.06.25 20:23:00 - [7] - Quote Promethius Franklin wrote: Aside from the one pointed out, which others are there? Calling the game P2W would suggest this is a repeated or pervasive practice, yet we only have one example which for all we know could be an unintended oversight. Don't bother. This is like a crusade for the guys. There's always one or two items that pop up like this and everyone starts in with the P2W crap and how CCP is just making bank of tricking people and they're so greedy. and blah blah blah. Then the item is removed with the next update and it starts all over again. Either trying to feel important because they have their noble cause or trying to run new players off by conveniently leaving things out of the conversation and making it sound so bad you need to run away as fast as you can. Whatever, I jump on the threads sometimes and argue the same things again and again. Helps to pass the time.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 565	Posted - 2013.06.25 21:39:00 - [8] - Quote There's a reason they put them back and I"m sure they'll take them away again when the next content patch hits. Or change the stats to be the same as the ISK ones. Or you can wait super long and buy them on the market. Or ***** about P2W, that's also acceptable because it's quality entertainment.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 571	Posted - 2013.06.27 21:17:00 - [9] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: Promethius Franklin wrote: Aside from the one pointed out, which others are there? Calling the game P2W would suggest this is a repeated or pervasive practice, yet we only have one example which for all we know could be an unintended oversight. blah blah blah There's always one or two items that pop up like this blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Right now, the grenades and the Blood Raider Saga are Pay to Win. A good argument can be made that the boosters are also Pay to Win, but I'm not sure I buy it. At any given time there has been at least one pay to win item in the market. This isn't a difficult thing to NOT do, all they have to do is compare the item they are about to release onto the market, with the ISK version of the same item. If the AUR version is better, it's Pay to WIn. You can't possibly believe that this isn't something they can do. It's ridiculous to argue that they don't know they are putting Pay to Win items on the market. They put them on the market until we complain, then they replace them with a new Pay to Win item. I mean, open your eyes dude. You even agree that they do it, but then turn around and simply pretend like they don't and attack those who point it out. It's ridiculous. Those AUR contact grenades also came with the merc pack which said any items in the pack that were removed from the game would be replaced by something of equal value. Perhaps CCP put the grenades on the market so they would have a set value in order to remove them from the game. Just offering a counterpoint. Because like I've been saying, it's got nothing to do with me being blind to what CCP is doing but I just don't think "Say there won't be any P2W items and then start adding P2W items" is some kind of master plan they have. They know the players will notice it and they know there will be an uproar so what's the endgame for them? That we'll just forget? I'm sorry, I just don't see it being more than a mistake or done temporarily for a good reason. And boosters are not pay 2 win, stop whining. When you fly in coach you don't get free drinks and a reclining seat but you still get to the same destination as first class. Your journey was just a little less pleasant.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 571	Posted - 2013.06.28 05:37:00 - [10] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: As far as booster, the argument is that you can never catch up to someone who buys the boosters every week. They will always be ahead, and the longer the game goes along, the further ahead they will get. They are literally paying for an advantage that can never be made up. This would only be true if: 1. There was no upper bound on growth 2. Every skill in the game would benefit all playstyles and affect all modules and stats 3. SP was useful in and of itself Since none of those things are true then a player using boosters could certainly "do more", but they wouldn't be able to do anything better than a player without a booster. Or you could just suck it up until the market is ready and buy them for ISK. I'm aware I keep saying that over and over but that's because it's true.