DUST Search - CCP Continues To Push Pay-To-Win

Moejoe Omnipotent wrote:

Thukker Contact Locus Grenade

Price: 23,190 ISK

CPU Cost: 48

PG Cost: 6

Prequisites: Weaponry 3, Explosives 1, Grenadier 5

SP Cost: 1,417,760 SP

Blast Radius: 2.5 meters

Damage: 600

Summary: Inferior to the AUR version in every aspect other than direct damage. Requires an enormous amount of skill training to use (approximately 5 weeks of grinding out the SP cap every single week without purchasing any other skill). Requires a significant amount of CPU / PG to equip which makes it near impossible to equip on lower tier dropsuits (and even high tier ones) without giving up a lot of other equipment.

Players must spec into high-end dropsuits / CPU/PG upgrades in order to equip these with other equipment, adding on to the time required to use these grenades.

Fused Locus Grenades

Price: 15 AUR

CPU Cost: 9

PG Cost: 2

Prerequisites: Zero Requirements

SP Cost: Zero

Blast Radius: 6.0 meters

Damage: 400

Summary: Superior to the Thukker Grenade in almost every aspect. Significantly larger last radius makes it much easier to abuse. Can be purchased by any player who pays for AUR. Requires just a fraction of the CPU/PG cost of the Thukker so it can be fitted on almost any dropsuit loadout without any sacrifices. There is no direct ISK equivalent to this grenade.

Yep, totally a fair system. AUR purchasers definetely don't have the advantage here....

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Moejoe Omnipotent Imperfects Negative-Feedback 503	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:22:00 - [1] - Quote Thukker Contact Locus Grenade Price: 23,190 ISK CPU Cost: 48 PG Cost: 6 Prequisites: Weaponry 3, Explosives 1, Grenadier 5 SP Cost: 1,417,760 SP Blast Radius: 2.5 meters Damage: 600 Summary: Inferior to the AUR version in every aspect other than direct damage. Requires an enormous amount of skill training to use (approximately 5 weeks of grinding out the SP cap every single week without purchasing any other skill). Requires a significant amount of CPU / PG to equip which makes it near impossible to equip on lower tier dropsuits (and even high tier ones) without giving up a lot of other equipment. Players must spec into high-end dropsuits / CPU/PG upgrades in order to equip these with other equipment, adding on to the time required to use these grenades. Fused Locus Grenades Price: 15 AUR CPU Cost: 9 PG Cost: 2 Prerequisites: Zero Requirements SP Cost: Zero Blast Radius: 6.0 meters Damage: 400 Summary: Superior to the Thukker Grenade in almost every aspect. Significantly larger last radius makes it much easier to abuse. Can be purchased by any player who pays for AUR. Requires just a fraction of the CPU/PG cost of the Thukker so it can be fitted on almost any dropsuit loadout without any sacrifices. There is no direct ISK equivalent to this grenade. Yep, totally a fair system. AUR purchasers definetely don't have the advantage here....
Den-tredje Baron The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 102	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:33:00 - [2] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Thukker Contact Locus Grenade Price: 23,190 ISK CPU Cost: 48 PG Cost: 6 Prequisites: Weaponry 3, Explosives 1, Grenadier 5 SP Cost: 1,417,760 SP Blast Radius: 2.5 meters Damage: 600 Summary: Inferior to the AUR version in every aspect other than direct damage. Requires an enormous amount of skill training to use (approximately 5 weeks of grinding out the SP cap every single week without purchasing any other skill). Requires a significant amount of CPU / PG to equip which makes it near impossible to equip on lower tier dropsuits (and even high tier ones) without giving up a lot of other equipment. Players must spec into high-end dropsuits / CPU/PG upgrades in order to equip these with other equipment, adding on to the time required to use these grenades. Fused Locus Grenades Price: 15 AUR CPU Cost: 9 PG Cost: 2 Prerequisites: Zero Requirements SP Cost: Zero Blast Radius: 6.0 meters Damage: 400 Summary: Superior to the Thukker Grenade in almost every aspect. Significantly larger last radius makes it much easier to abuse. Can be purchased by any player who pays for AUR. Requires just a fraction of the CPU/PG cost of the Thukker so it can be fitted on almost any dropsuit loadout without any sacrifices. There is no direct ISK equivalent to this grenade. Yep, totally a fair system. AUR purchasers definetely don't have the advantage here.... This is the only P2W item in the entire game. Quit calling it P2W as soon as you see one item out of line... But yes you are right this aur item is way out of line as it's so easy to get and so so powerful. To redo this they should rename it hacked thukker contact locus grenade or something like that and make it have the exact same stats as the thukker contact grenade. Only exception should of course be that you can get these at level 3 grenadier. Bum bum problem solved. Ohh and when it comes to implementing lower level contact grenade variants ... DO NOT DO THAT !! Just like AR's the more you skill into it the more exotic variants you get to use.
Declan Dayne Commando Perkone Caldari State 5	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:35:00 - [3] - Quote Yep this game is such a complete failure in every aspect. How many years has it took to put out this garbage? It's a shame that this game is so crappy because it has incredible potential. No one but ccp fan boys will continue to pay for this game in its current state. And why wait forever for them to fix stuff that shouldn't be broken at this point in production anyways? Total fail... Far better games to sink time and/or money into.
Fiddlestaxp TeamPlayers EoN. 78	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:37:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Continues to Push Push-To-Talk.
Moejoe Omnipotent Imperfects Negative-Feedback 506	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:37:00 - [5] - Quote Den-tredje Baron wrote: This is the only P2W item in the entire game. Quit calling it P2W as soon as you see one item out of line... It's also one of the most overpowered weapons in the game.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 625	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:38:00 - [6] - Quote TBF this is the only instance where AUR items are better than ISK. CCP should improve the quality of the Thukker, as theyve said they do not intend Dust to be p2w, but I'm not about to riot. If the thukker had better blast radius no one would complain (though I'd rather see a decrease to the fused).
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS 1NC 528	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:40:00 - [7] - Quote I don't know whether to feel pity for this company's stupidity. Or annoyed at them for treating their customers as idiots. tbh this game seems to get worse on almost a daily basis now. If it had ever crossed my mind to try EVE, after this experience, Hell would have to freeze. I really wanted this game to be what it promised. I foolishly believed ccp's marketing BS. Lesson learned, will not be caught twice.
The Cobra Commander Bojo's School of the Trades 34	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:40:00 - [8] - Quote ...and to see players in big name corps spamming them in pub matches is a straight up joke. These nades need to be removed because they are showing up more and more...
Moejoe Omnipotent Imperfects Negative-Feedback 508	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:41:00 - [9] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: TBF this is the only instance where AUR items are better than ISK. CCP should improve the quality of the Thukker, as theyve said they do not intend Dust to be p2w, but I'm not about to riot. If the thukker had better blast radius no one would complain (though I'd rather see a decrease to the fused). No, if people really want to keep contact grenades then it is the AUR version that needs a nerf, not the ISK version that needs a buff.
Fiddlestaxp TeamPlayers EoN. 78	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:43:00 - [10] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: If the thukker had better blast radius no one would complain (though I'd rather see a decrease to the fused). I would! It isn't the thukker that needs to be buffed to make the items line up...

Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 248	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:44:00 - [11] - Quote Who cares if it is pay to win? We are all investing a game here. Get a job or ask mommy and daddy to buy you some. I would hope the more money spent on this game equals a better product. AUR weapons and AUR tanks are a huge target everyone I know loves to make people spend real dough. If we get a better game out of it so be it.
Shane Darko The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 59	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:44:00 - [12] - Quote I can still kill people who use those grenades,sure they can be a bother,but hell isn't every weapon? EDIT:Well before I do get some hate,yes it is a dangerous weapon,and honestly one of the only AUR weapon I have seen get abused.
lllIIIlI IIIlIl Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 63	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:47:00 - [13] - Quote "The game won't be pay to win; it'll be just like EVE where you'll use isk for the same thing as aurum or only be able to buy cosmetic upgrades" - CCP dickriders from ~2 years ago. Good to see they were right and that there aren't any pay to win items in the game and that you can't use aurum to purchase absurdly broken contact nades, or use aurum to unlock items with the exact same benefits only 1 tier lower.
Karazantor Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:49:00 - [14] - Quote Its a microtransaction based game, Why is this even a surprise. And yes, it sucks. Its why the game should be sub based, but thats a moot point at this stage.
Jaleyn Sadur Shadow Company HQ 1	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:49:00 - [15] - Quote You could not like...be in throwing range of them. I hear that works
Karazantor Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:53:00 - [16] - Quote ICECREAMK1NG wrote: I don't know whether to feel pity for this company's stupidity. Or annoyed at them for treating their customers as idiots. tbh this game seems to get worse on almost a daily basis now. If it had ever crossed my mind to try EVE, after this experience, Hell would have to freeze. I really wanted this game to be what it promised. I foolishly believed ccp's marketing BS. Lesson learned, will not be caught twice. EVE is an extremely good game, with huge amounts of content. You can mine, trade, fight, shoot pirates, scam, steal,spy massacre innocent traders in 'safe' regions, and if you really like burnout then there is null sec warfare (equivalent of PC in general concept). Thats just the start. And its not play to win.
WR3CK HAVOC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 32	Posted - 2013.06.09 00:59:00 - [17] - Quote THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED. This could be only the begining. Just think if Assaut rifles are NEXT. They could bring back the old TAC AR as aur ONLY. AUR and isk items must remain completly the same.
TooL 10000dayz The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 0	Posted - 2013.06.09 01:01:00 - [18] - Quote the fused grenade damage is high considering you can spam them with a hive and pepper the battlefield with high explosives and kill and wound hostiles in a wide are. You can hold off a whole army
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 249	Posted - 2013.06.09 01:05:00 - [19] - Quote TooL 10000dayz wrote: the fused grenade damage is high considering you can spam them with a hive and pepper the battlefield with high explosives and kill and wound hostiles in a wide are. You can hold off a whole army boo hoo
greyarea67 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2013.06.09 01:39:00 - [20] - Quote I hate these things, not just because they kill me a lot as a heavy or because I think they "cheapen" the game play, but because it is just another reason for new players to QQ after being repeatedly stomped with these things. Most of your noobs are not going to have any idea what is going on, other than that they are being repeatedly blown to smithereens and no way to counter it. I also find CCPs and the CPMs silence on this matter annoying. Let's express our displeasure in this feedback forum thread as well: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=899

Richy De DUST University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2013.06.09 01:43:00 - [21] - Quote Jaleyn Sadur wrote: You could not like...be in throwing range of them. I hear that works I second that. Being new and using militia gear, I love it when I drop someone in there Adv/Proto gear. Even with a low sp I can still drop targets with a good burst of rounds to the face. greyarea67 wrote: Most of your noobs are not going to have any idea what is going on, other than that they are being repeatedly blown to smithereens and no way to counter it. I have to disagree. If your that worried about a grenades being op, then take to the hills and snipe. Even in the started sniper gear, you'll drop targets with a good head shot or two. Don't fancy that then skill into the HAV's Better yet an attack ship, swooping through the air raining down destruction and death from above. You gotta play the music to go with it if you pick this method:- Ride Of The Valkyries
Vavilia Lysenko Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2013.06.09 02:11:00 - [22] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Thukker Contact Locus Grenade Price: 23,190 ISK CPU Cost: 48 PG Cost: 6 Prequisites: Weaponry 3, Explosives 1, Grenadier 5 SP Cost: 1,417,760 SP Blast Radius: 2.5 meters Damage: 600 Summary: Inferior to the AUR version in every aspect other than direct damage. Requires an enormous amount of skill training to use (approximately 5 weeks of grinding out the SP cap every single week without purchasing any other skill). Requires a significant amount of CPU / PG to equip which makes it near impossible to equip on lower tier dropsuits (and even high tier ones) without giving up a lot of other equipment. Players must spec into high-end dropsuits / CPU/PG upgrades in order to equip these with other equipment, adding on to the time required to use these grenades. Fused Locus Grenades Price: 15 AUR CPU Cost: 9 PG Cost: 2 Prerequisites: Zero Requirements SP Cost: Zero Blast Radius: 6.0 meters Damage: 400 Summary: Superior to the Thukker Grenade in almost every aspect. Significantly wider blast radius makes it much easier to abuse. Can be purchased by any player who pays for AUR. Requires just a fraction of the CPU/PG cost of the Thukker so it can be fitted on almost any dropsuit loadout without any sacrifices. There is no direct ISK equivalent to this grenade. Yep, totally a fair system. AUR purchasers definetely don't have the advantage here.... This forum is absolutely Post 2 Whine
greyarea67 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2013.06.09 02:36:00 - [23] - Quote Richy De wrote: greyarea67 wrote: Most of your noobs are not going to have any idea what is going on, other than that they are being repeatedly blown to smithereens and no way to counter it. I have to disagree. If your that worried about a grenades being op, then take to the hills and snipe. Even in the started sniper gear, you'll drop targets with a good head shot or two. Don't fancy that then skill into the HAV's Better yet an attack ship, swooping through the air raining down destruction and death from above. You gotta play the music to go with it if you pick this method:- Ride Of The Valkyries Yes, all valid counters that your 1 day old blueberry is probably not going to know about unless they have previous FPS experience (or have been fortunate enough to join Dust University). All the people who just download the game to give it a try (having no idea what EvE/Dust is about) and then get pub stomped because vets will create an alt, buy some contact grenades, join the Instant Battle Academy and have a field day. And yes, better matchmaking would solve this problem. Yes, I will HTFU...but will they? There is already too much gear disparity between experienced players and the completely ignorant, born today merc clone. Do we really need more? It's very fitting that you chose the music played during the village massacre in Apocalypse Now :)
Richy De DUST University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2013.06.09 04:08:00 - [24] - Quote greyarea67 wrote: Richy De wrote: greyarea67 wrote: Most of your noobs are not going to have any idea what is going on, other than that they are being repeatedly blown to smithereens and no way to counter it. I have to disagree. If your that worried about a grenades being op, then take to the hills and snipe. Even in the started sniper gear, you'll drop targets with a good head shot or two. Don't fancy that then skill into the HAV's Better yet an attack ship, swooping through the air raining down destruction and death from above. You gotta play the music to go with it if you pick this method:- Ride Of The Valkyries Yes, all valid counters that your 1 day old blueberry is probably not going to know about unless they have previous FPS experience (or have been fortunate enough to join Dust University). All the people who just download the game to give it a try (having no idea what EvE/Dust is about) and then get pub stomped because vets will create an alt, buy some contact grenades, join the Instant Battle Academy and have a field day. And yes, better matchmaking would solve this problem. Yes, I will HTFU...but will they? There is already too much gear disparity between experienced players and the completely ignorant, born today merc clone. Do we really need more? It's very fitting that you chose the music played during the village massacre in Apocalypse Now :) I have to agree with the disparity between players, as a Battlefield Vet of 9 years and other FPS games I found it impossible to hit a target at short/mid range initially, not a single round, while they fire a burst that wipes me out even factoring in the low sp, I did find very frustrating. On the point of players not having any experience of Dust/Eve or FPS Nobody starts any new game knowing anything about it unless they have had it introduced to them by someone else to show them. They load it up and find out, maybe look on a forum or wiki/walkthrough. Anyone playing Dust who has no experience of FPS on the other hand is not very likely to keep playing it by virtue of the fact that they haven't played any other FPS games in the first place, probably because they are not interested in the genre. PS: I had a great time in the academy, thought I was gonna walk all over everyone on Dust.. then I had to mix it up with the big boy's
The Rohypnol Kid Russell's mum.com 19	Posted - 2013.06.09 08:35:00 - [25] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Thukker Contact Locus Grenade Price: 23,190 ISK CPU Cost: 48 PG Cost: 6 Prequisites: Weaponry 3, Explosives 1, Grenadier 5 SP Cost: 1,417,760 SP Blast Radius: 2.5 meters Damage: 600 Summary: Inferior to the AUR version in every aspect other than direct damage. Requires an enormous amount of skill training to use (approximately 5 weeks of grinding out the SP cap every single week without purchasing any other skill). Requires a significant amount of CPU / PG to equip which makes it near impossible to equip on lower tier dropsuits (and even high tier ones) without giving up a lot of other equipment. Players must spec into high-end dropsuits / CPU/PG upgrades in order to equip these with other equipment, adding on to the time required to use these grenades. Fused Locus Grenades Price: 15 AUR CPU Cost: 9 PG Cost: 2 Prerequisites: Zero Requirements SP Cost: Zero Blast Radius: 6.0 meters Damage: 400 Summary: Superior to the Thukker Grenade in almost every aspect. Significantly wider blast radius makes it much easier to abuse. Can be purchased by any player who pays for AUR. Requires just a fraction of the CPU/PG cost of the Thukker so it can be fitted on almost any dropsuit loadout without any sacrifices. There is no direct ISK equivalent to this grenade. Yep, totally a fair system. AUR purchasers definetely don't have the advantage here.... Can you tell me who pays-you- to-whinge?
Ignatius Crumwald IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 560	Posted - 2013.06.09 08:39:00 - [26] - Quote Contact grenades are near game breaking and having performance differences between the AUR and ISK variants is Pay2win - plain and simple. EDIT: Oh wait, I'm sorry. The game isn't Pay2Win - they said so at fanfest. Plus the COMMUNITY would go BALLISTIC if it were true... So it can't be true otherwise someone from the community would speak up about it and we would all be like ROOOOOOAAAAAR and CCP's faces would melt like they just opened the Ark of the Covenant.
Moejoe Omnipotent Imperfects Negative-Feedback 520	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:38:00 - [27] - Quote It's too bad EVE players have no balls and they make up over half the community.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3569	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:43:00 - [28] - Quote What's most disconcerting is that we've ALREADY gone through this the last time they put those stupid things on the market Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: It's too bad EVE players have no balls and they make up over half the community. And CPM
R F Gyro Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 360	Posted - 2013.06.09 17:08:00 - [29] - Quote CCP don't want Dust to be Pay to Win. If you find something that is genuinely P2W then report it in the defects forum and they'll treat it like any other bug. They aren't trying to pull a fast one or anything; they just make mistakes occasionally.
Mike Poole Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 201	Posted - 2013.06.09 17:17:00 - [30] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: CCP don't want Dust to be Pay to Win. If you find something that is genuinely P2W then report it in the defects forum and they'll treat it like any other bug. They aren't trying to pull a fast one or anything; they just make mistakes occasionally. Seriously? Don't try to play this like some sort of accidental bug when the total lack of attention to something so imbalanced toward the P2W crowd has been nil even with all of the focus on it by the community. They know full and well what they're doing and they don't care because they have suckups like you to jump to their defense.



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