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Furrow33 Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2013.05.25 04:05:00 - [211] - Quote I wont lie. I use tac specifically because of its higher damage. Up close I get wiped out because I have trouble continuously pressing r1 and keeping sights on someone.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 177	Posted - 2013.05.25 04:07:00 - [212] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: Matakage wrote: TL/DR Reduce the ROF and dismiss my other ludicrous points I looked up TL;DR on the interweb and the definition was "I'm a slow reader." Sorry to hear about that, by the way. But actually, the ROF thing is a given. They're gonna change that no matter what because the point is too valid and other people have made it numerous times. The real unique point that I was offering was the bullet-spread during hip fire. This is the most important thing to nerf, because it is what most over-shadows the unique role of the AR. The Tac AR should be better at longer ranges, and the AR should be better at close to medium ranges. This is not the case at the moment. The solution is increasing the bullet-spread during hip-fire.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 177	Posted - 2013.05.25 04:08:00 - [213] - Quote Furrow33 wrote: I wont lie. I use tac specifically because of its higher damage. Up close I get wiped out because I have trouble continuously pressing r1 and keeping sights on someone. I'd say you're in the minority on that one. In my experience, the Tac AR absolutely demolishes at close range.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 18	Posted - 2013.05.25 04:50:00 - [214] - Quote Matakage wrote: Obodiah Garro wrote: Matakage wrote: TL/DR Reduce the ROF and dismiss my other ludicrous points I looked up TL;DR on the interweb and the definition was "I'm a slow reader." Sorry to hear about that, by the way. But actually, the ROF thing is a given. They're gonna change that no matter what because the point is too valid and other people have made it numerous times. The real unique point that I was offering was the bullet-spread during hip fire. This is the most important thing to nerf, because it is what most over-shadows the unique role of the AR. The Tac AR should be better at longer ranges, and the AR should be better at close to medium ranges. This is not the case at the moment. The solution is increasing the bullet-spread during hip-fire. I disagree completely with your bullet-spread opinion. Dispersion is fine, what makes the TAC lethal at close range is the brutal DPS, which is completely controlled via the ROF. Increasing dispersion would not make that much difference in CQC assuming your on top of the target, it also has the potential to look ridiculous. A good gamer will simply just pull up his aim to compensate so its a mute point. If you reduce the damage per shot then it cannot function as a marksmen rifle, thus completely removing its intended role. Oh btw your definition was wrong, you should try and understand the concept before wailing on walls of text of nonsense.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 180	Posted - 2013.05.25 05:11:00 - [215] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: I disagree completely with your bullet-spread opinion. Dispersion is fine, what makes the TAC lethal at close range is the brutal DPS, which is completely controlled via the ROF. You can point your hip-fire crosshairs at targets and reliably kill them at medium range. This replaces the role of the AR, thus it should be changed. I'm confident the ROF thing will be fixed, as it's pretty obviously a problem. Obodiah Garro wrote: Increasing dispersion would not make that much difference in CQC assuming your on top of the target, it also has the potential to look ridiculous. A good gamer will simply just pull up his aim to compensate so its a mute point. I wish all your points were mute so I wouldn't have to bother responding to this nonsense. Increasing the dispersion does not make a difference in CQC, that's correct. I explicitly said that the TAR should be reliable from the 0-15 meter range. You must have missed that part. And yes, a good player could always use their dot sights in CQC. That's generally harder than firing from the hip, so that skill should be rewarded. Obodiah Garro wrote: If you reduce the damage per shot then it cannot function as a marksmen rifle, thus completely removing its intended role. Now I'm conviced you didn't read my post. The very first thing I mentioned in bold was that the damage, optimal range, and maximum range should not be changed. Obodiah Garro wrote: Oh btw your definition was wrong, you should try and understand the concept before wailing on walls of text of nonsense. As per debate etiquette, if the aforementioned definition cannot be agreed upon, then the argument shouldn't continue beyond that point. In other words, if you can't understand the implicit role of the Tactical AR based on its stats compared to other weapons, you're probably not equipped to participate in the conversation anyway.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 360	Posted - 2013.05.25 05:46:00 - [216] - Quote Seriously... two weeks later.. has the CPM brought this to CCP? Do we know what's going to happen? Is there any point in continuing to talk about it?
Jenova's Witness Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2013.05.25 09:16:00 - [217] - Quote I did some thinking on the entire AR line and came up with a solution that could fix a lot of the issues with the TAR and the entire AR weapon class: We need racial variants of all the ARs! The AR right now is way too versatile for a mid/short range, high DPS Gallente plasma weapon and because if this, it often winds up being be better choice out of all other weapons. From a lore standpoint, the SR, which uses laser pulses, should have superior range to the plasma rifle. Why this isn't the case since the SR has inferior DPS, still baffles me and ruins any incentive to even use the SR outside of pure novelty since the negatives vastly outweigh the positives compared to the AR. Without a true long range Caldari rifle and mid/short range Minmatar rifle with their own bonuses to shield/armor to truly round out the entire AR class, the AR is more of a placeholder to all the different weapon classes, which in the end give the Gallente rifle all the strengths, but none of the weaknesses.
Panther Alpha WarRavens 286	Posted - 2013.05.25 10:37:00 - [218] - Quote Simple solution: Remove the crosshair from the hip firing mode, and force people to use ONLY the scope ( The same as a Sniper Rifle )
Jenova's Witness Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2013.05.25 10:43:00 - [219] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: Simple solution: Remove the crosshair from the hip firing mode, and force people to use ONLY the scope ( The same as a Sniper Rifle ) You sure about that?
Panther Alpha WarRavens 287	Posted - 2013.05.25 10:46:00 - [220] - Quote Jenova's Witness wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: Simple solution: Remove the crosshair from the hip firing mode, and force people to use ONLY the scope ( The same as a Sniper Rifle ) You sure about that? Why the hell the Sniper Rifle have a crosshair ? .... Remove that too!!!

Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 377	Posted - 2013.05.25 11:32:00 - [221] - Quote I'm sure I've given some feedback here. Issues with the TAR upon reading what people that get hit by it say: - Too good at CQC - Too much damage - High RoF enables modded inputs - Ammo persistence GLU-5 Tactical Assault Rifle Damage: 61 HP Rate of Fire: 450 RPM (compare with full auto Breach AR) down from 789.5 Accuracy Rating: 42.9 (similar hip fire spread to the Burst Scrambler Pistol) down from 56.1 Clip Size: 30 (increased) up from 24 Max Ammo: 180 (reduction) down from 300 Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle Damage: 64.2 HP Rate of Fire: 450 RPM Accuracy Rating: 43.5 (exactly .6 higher than the GLU-5, as intended) down from 56.7 Clip Size: 30 Max Ammo: 180 These are some proposed numbers by me for the CPM, and the commnity to consider. Please make the comparisons that I reference before commenting on the numbers. Community-backed stats for the TAR will get it properly balanced. These are not my original numbers. These are numbers after input from some members in the Dust community. If we can come to an agreement on numbers for the TAR, the CPM can present it to CCP when they next meet, if the topic comes up.
Lichsmash RN Quackery Labs Roid Addicts 1	Posted - 2013.05.26 00:51:00 - [222] - Quote my problem with the tac has less to do with the damage it does but its ability to dominate in CQC i run a sever bpo with a CRG shotgun when im just in pubs and I'm unable to to take them in cqc the fact is they can get off an untold number of shots off without a modded controller or mouse before i can fire a second shot. aside from the other shotgun issues (i liked them better mid chromosome) the tac needs a blind spot where it does less damage in CQC but maintains its punch at range. im fine with keeping the tac as a marksman's gun the game needs an good carbine and i relly don want the tac to be nerfed back to being useless having only one weapon being used this heavily isn't healthy for the game we need more than new weapons to counter trhe tac line existing weapons should nopt continue to be obsolete.
ETEREX THE SKELETON CREW 28	Posted - 2013.05.26 09:59:00 - [223] - Quote I ran with Scramblers for a week with base skill and found they dropped targets quicker than my ARs even though I am fully specced in ARs. The scramblers also seem to have better hit detection for me as well. But they just aren't my style so I'm sticking with ARs and hoping the new models and ammo types come out soon.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 380	Posted - 2013.05.26 13:45:00 - [224] - Quote ARs in general are too good, and have too long of a range for "blaster" type weapons. The TAR in particular seems to outrange everything but Sniper Rifles, and it's supposedly representing "Blasters" which are one of the shortest range weapons in EVE. Really, skilling into a single weapon type shouldn't give you a weapon that can dominate short-range, mid-range, and long-range for the price of one skill. It's beyond broken, and makes the other weapon types eccentricities for people that feel like crippling themselves.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1349	Posted - 2013.05.26 14:50:00 - [225] - Quote I believe that the tactical assault rifle should be used for "sniping" between assault rifle and sniper rifle range. I think it could use a smaller clip (probably 10 rounds), lower RoF, and higher damage per shot.
J Lav Opus Arcana Orion Empire 75	Posted - 2013.05.26 16:09:00 - [226] - Quote I've been killed by the Douvelle TAC more than anything in this game, however I think it is pretty close to where it should be. The only changes that need to happen are: Decrease clip size to about 10-20, and decrease the ROF to ~650.
Chinduko KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 119	Posted - 2013.05.26 17:16:00 - [227] - Quote It has the capability to be manually fired too fast and does too much damage. It has no hip fire recoil. With my heavy suit, the TAC AR is much more reliable at hip fire than the HMG at defense due to it's dmg and ROF. It has superb range with some scoping recoil but that is easily compensated for with slower firing which is still fast enough to be highly effective. The damage is so high, without dmg mods it only takes two to three shots to kill a militia scout. The TAC should have the same dmg and full auto ROF as other ARs but with the tac scope. It should be a support weapon and not a killing machine. This would solve hip fire domination as it would perform as other ARs but would still allow better accuracy at longer ranges. The excellent damage of what it has now it was gives it dominance in CQC. Even if it had the the same hipfire as an AR but with the same 75+ damage, it would still dominate, even without pinpoint hipfire accuracy.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 65	Posted - 2013.05.27 20:20:00 - [228] - Quote ladwar wrote: its high RoF of is being abused by modded controller. so change the RoF simple, been saying it for a while. This is a common complaint, however true or untrue this is. It is a skill that even a novice can pick up. The PS3 factory controllers have a point where depressing the button and keeping your finger close to the activation position allows you to put out rapid bursts of gunfire just by moving you finger slightly. Many users of the TAC AR know this and use it to greatly increase their ROF just by using the simple mechanical procedure of a slight articulation of their finger. It greatly increases accuracy for all weapons and is a good skill to have in a FPS game. That said I believe the weapon is perfectly balanced. It has range that the name implies and is harder to use close quarters without the above described skill. The weapon requires enough SP to use that it isn't able to be used by first day new players and has a small enough clip size that one must make accurate shots rather than spraying and praying. The damage is consistent with a High Caliber Low ROF Rifle available at modern gun shops. For instance, a 30-30 round does less damage than a .308 round and the .308 round will fly further when fired. To compare it to an Assault rifle, which has auto fire and a larger clip as well as shorter range, the TAC is meant for use at range and as such has higher powered rounds than it's counterpart, the assault rifle. While the assault rifle has a high rate of fire similar to the tac ar, it's lower powered rounds are able to cycle through the chamber without overheating the barrel. If one were to modify the TAC AR to fire on an auto cycle, due to the high powered rounds, its user would find that the rifle would be uncontrollable, often spraying a target unintentionally and leading to many an overshot round. The kick from the higher powered rounds make the weapon more powerful, but also harder to control and only by using it in short controlled bursts is it an effective killing weapon. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that it is not an effective weapon, but so are Boundless HMGs. In fact the Duvolle Assault Rifle is also effective and when comparing a level 4 or level 5 weapon to Militia gear, any of the lv 4 and lv 5 weapons cut through militia gear like a hot knife through butter.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 101	Posted - 2013.05.27 20:33:00 - [229] - Quote hipfire is far too accurate. refire time is far too low.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2432	Posted - 2013.05.27 20:41:00 - [230] - Quote One of the primary things that can be done with eliminating the usefulness of modded controllers is something that the Halo series has been using quite effectively at least to address the problem. The best course of action for CCP to take is to simply impose an Animation-based limiter on the rate of rife. The reason I specifically said "animation-based" is because it has the ability to render modded controllers absolutely useless without affecting players who don't even own a modded controller. The way how an animation-based limiter works can best be described using the Covenant Carbine, the UNSC DMR or the Promethean Light Rifle as perfect examples. I have tested these three weapons in Halo using an Xbox 360 modded controller that enables me to shoot a weapon at a rate of 15 rounds per second. However, the Carbine, DMR, and Light Rifle are only able to fire as fast as their firing animation allows. To make sure we are on the same page here, I'm talking about the way how the weapons react visually when you pull the trigger, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE HARD-CODED RoF stat. Because of this animation, these weapons are not able to fire any faster than about 2-3 shots per second which means that the X360 modded controller that I have might as well be just another standard controller. If you want an example from Dust, the Nova Knives are just what you need to look at when it comes to animation-based limiters. I am unable to instant-attack any faster than about one slash per second (maybe one and the half). On top of that, there appears to be a certain amount of lag whenever I mash the R1 button too fast which results in the knives doing nothing for a brief second after the previous instant attack. Again, contrary to just changing a number in the RoF of a weapon, animation-based limiters have the benefit nerfing all modded controllers to oblivion while leaving absolutely no ill side effects for users who don't use modded controllers. The problem with just changing a number in the RoF stat of a weapon is that it will adversely affect players who are not using modded controllers and therefore we will end up with more threads about how overly nerfed the TAR has become.

Zyrus Amalomyn Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 166	Posted - 2013.05.27 21:02:00 - [231] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: That said I believe the weapon is perfectly balanced.. Not been playing much for the last couple weeks, have you?
Meeko Fent Mercenary incorperated 23	Posted - 2013.05.27 21:04:00 - [232] - Quote The TAR is Filling a Role Filled be another Weapon, Plain and Simple. And it does the Role Better. The SCR Should Outperform the PRs (Plasma Rifles. There is another "Assault Rifle" in town and calling a weapon AR when there are 2 Leads to Confusion) in general at Range. The TAR has Filled its role in the Beta as allowing those who wanted to be a More Supportive Rifleman Be that. But with a new Weapon that was supposed to make the TAR obsolete, it needs to either be Removed or made into a Wimpy Variant for AR spec'd characters to be ale to use w/o burning SP into a weapon they Rarely Use. SKIP TO HERE As a summary, because I don't expect any self respecting Person to read my Wall of text, The TAR was supposed to be Made Obsolete by the SCR, but instead makes its Successor Obsolete.
Sleever 44 The Red Guards EoN. 3	Posted - 2013.05.27 23:18:00 - [233] - Quote Tac rifles are OP as it is,,,then you have these jerks with the modded controllers making the game unplayable.... I run a heavy Sentinel Proto in PC when we compete. And those freakin guns cut through my guy in seconds literally. 1500 HP total and its like im in a freaking militia fit. The whole point to being a heavy is that you can take more small arms fire than the reg. foot soldiers. The way it is now is very, VERY frustrating and not fun to play at all. If your not one of the jerks with a modded controller running the Duvolle Tac, or the Glu for that matter, then you just another merc getting cut down without a chance to even defend yourself. Just my opinion. If this has already been addressed by an admin i apologize, but something needs to be done. And it needs to be done soon i hope.
Red Dot 24601-HA S.e.V.e.N. Gentlemen's Agreement 81	Posted - 2013.05.28 00:15:00 - [234] - Quote I just started using the TAC AR a couple days ago to see why so many were using it. It is definitley powerful but it does take some skill to use. As for the modded controller issue, would increasing the recoil fix it? If the barrel rises and leaves its target by the third or fourth rapid shot wouldn't that fix it? Nothing else would have to be addressed. The damage and range make sense for the role the rifle is supposed to play. I hate to see nerfs being requesting as they always leave someone feeling screwed. Increased recoil is my suggested answer. especially hipfire.
Creedair Talor The Phoenix Federation 6	Posted - 2013.05.28 01:32:00 - [235] - Quote Only issue i found is the range compared to scrambler rifle, lore wise it does not fully match and they outrange them by a good 10m without overheating they can pin you easy on the spot and you can not move closer at all. If the range where equal or just 1 m in favor of scrambler rifle it would be a fair shot between guys for using a single fire rifle. Lore wise scrambler rifle should be up there in the range but is not sadly. I have seen falloff effects of shots doing little damage at max range but have not had the same experience being fired at with tacticals.
WyrmHero1945 SyNergy Gaming EoN. 328	Posted - 2013.05.28 02:22:00 - [236] - Quote Replace it with the Caldari Rail Rifle and put a small spool time between shots just like all railgun. Easiest fix.
Arc-08 Knights Of Ender 6	Posted - 2013.05.28 02:46:00 - [237] - Quote I think CCP should continue to make it overpowered so that EVERYONE USES THEM, then nobody will ever use swarms or forge guns!!!! Then nobody can take out my dropship. or any vehicles, except when u get 6 people shooting down a starter LAV :P haha.
Lichsmash RN Quackery Labs Roid Addicts 2	Posted - 2013.05.28 18:33:00 - [238] - Quote i see a lot of talk about reducing the rate of fire on the two tac' so that brings me to as a noob question isnt rate of fire irrelevant on a semi-auto weapon that fires as fast as you can pull the trigger reducing a stat made for full autos useless wouldn't nerfing this change nothing?
Cybus Trama'dol EYE Security Task Force and Resources Acquisition 63	Posted - 2013.05.29 11:29:00 - [239] - Quote Lichsmash RN wrote: i see a lot of talk about reducing the rate of fire on the two tac' so that brings me to as a noob question isnt rate of fire irrelevant on a semi-auto weapon that fires as fast as you can pull the trigger reducing a stat made for full autos useless wouldn't nerfing this change nothing? Exactly!!! Reduce clip size and hipfire accuracy.... DONE.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 385	Posted - 2013.05.29 13:51:00 - [240] - Quote Cybus Trama'dol wrote: Lichsmash RN wrote: i see a lot of talk about reducing the rate of fire on the two tac' so that brings me to as a noob question isnt rate of fire irrelevant on a semi-auto weapon that fires as fast as you can pull the trigger reducing a stat made for full autos useless wouldn't nerfing this change nothing? Exactly!!! Reduce clip size and hipfire accuracy.... DONE. The RoF can serve as a semi-auto cap similar to the function on scrambler pistols. You probably can't humanly hit 700+ RPM with finger tapping. (unless you're one excited young lady...)



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