DUST Search - CPM: Feedback Requested, Tactical Assault Rifles

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Alaika Arbosa wrote:

THUNDERGROOVE wrote:

I guess it's not as bad as when they somehow released fully auto TARs back when there was a 'basic' version.

Still RoF is the issue and anyone who doesn't agree either uses it or pubstomps with friends who use it. It should be less than the breach with significantly more damage.

Alaika Arbosa wrote:

99% of my deaths since Uprising have been to a Tactical AR of some variety or another. I vote they be made the Sci-Fi version of a bolt action rifle.

I've highlighted the perfect solution. Give it an animation and everything, make it a bolt-action DMR. Maybe give it nearly the same damage as a Breach AR of the same tier, laser accurate, but with something like a 4 second delay between shots where you are manually operating the bolt to discharge the old "casing" (since they aren't truly projectile weapons, I doubt they really have casings) and loading the next round into the chamber. Voila, Tac AR that isn't broken.

1 bullet every 4 seconds with only breach level damage? Now that's the other extreme, you would completely break the TAR by doing that. And after them being almost completely useless last build, I'd hate for them to be broken again.

A scout wouldn't even loose half of it's shields, and it's shields would be fully restored before you got your next shot off at that damage. Just to clarify.

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Kesi Raae Kaae Much Crying Old Experts 70	Posted - 2013.05.17 11:10:00 - [151] - Quote Real life comparisons from a CPM member /o\
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1381	Posted - 2013.05.17 11:18:00 - [152] - Quote Kesi Raae Kaae wrote: Real life comparisons from a CPM member /o\ Lol Sometimes it can be usefull to take roots in reality.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 4263	Posted - 2013.05.17 20:08:00 - [153] - Quote Real Life is great for inspiration.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 453	Posted - 2013.05.17 20:26:00 - [154] - Quote I agree with Aeon....if anything is to be changed the first thing should be the 10% blanket dmg buff it rcv'ed with all of the other weapons. To use this weapon effectively you have to control your shots. I have yet to run into a single person who uses the tact with a modded controller. If there are in fact some who do then they probably do it just to troll ppl because there is no way it would be effective due to the recoil. I am not sure why ppl are so hung up on trying to nerf the tact "because there is no counter" instead of buffing the laser rifle which is supposed to be good at range but is now a terrible weapon. If you change the sights, range, optimal range of the laser you will have a ready made weapon that would destroy the tact at range and I bet you if this change is made scrub tact players will get on the forums complaining that the laser is OP.
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Unclaimed. 40	Posted - 2013.05.17 20:52:00 - [155] - Quote I guess it's not as bad as when they somehow released fully auto TARs back when there was a 'basic' version. Still RoF is the issue and anyone who doesn't agree either uses it or pubstomps with friends who use it. It should be less than the breach with significantly more damage.
Kharga Lum Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 54	Posted - 2013.05.17 20:58:00 - [156] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: - Drop the RoF to 120-180 RPM. That's 2-3 rounds/second. - Increase hip fire kick drastically - Modify damage falloff in mid range. It's enhanced range shouldn't give it as drastic an increase in mid-range/long range damage as it has now. Damage is fine. It's on-par with the Scram Rifle, but the scram rifle has Overheating, Feedback damage, and a much lower effective range. Price shouldn't even come in to the equation. Saying a 100k gun should 'perform' is stupid. My Imperial Scrambler Rifle costst 100k, and it doesent perform like the TAC. ^This It's closest competitor is the scramble riffle which does not have a sharpshooter skill. The Tac can fire continuously until the clip is empty without damaging the user and has longer range.
Nguruthos IX Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 518	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:05:00 - [157] - Quote ladwar wrote: its high RoF of is being abused by modded controller. so change the RoF simple, been saying it for a while. It's not just modded controllers. It's also this: http://www.amazon.com/Eagle-Mouse-Keyboard-Converter-Playstation-3/dp/B0040UAYI4 "Eagles Eye" - allows to bind trigger to a mouse wheel. Scroll for max ROF. pew pew
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 192	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:11:00 - [158] - Quote I find the TAR to be the most fun weapon to use, I enjoy percision, single shot, skill weapons (i use scrambler pistols a ton and love them as well). Scrambler Rifles are fun too, so i no longer find the TAR NEEDS to exist. However, I believe most of the problems with the TAR come from the bad aim in CQ. Where the TAR is supposed to be vulnerable, 80% of the player base (sometimes myself included) struggle to really keep up with targets. Therefore the TAR user simply has to strafe and put distance back between him and his enemy and take them out while doing so. If a nerf occurs to TAR at CQ it needs a buff at mid/long range. Right now the big issue is that it can hipfire so well. If you remove that, I would say we need to reduce the recoil on ADS shots.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization 10	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:56:00 - [159] - Quote laser rifle would have been a great counter to the tac ar if it had not been nerfed to uselessness.. std laser would have worked fine against it if it wasnt nerfed so bad...
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 527	Posted - 2013.05.17 23:19:00 - [160] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: I find the TAR to be the most fun weapon to use, I enjoy percision, single shot, skill weapons (i use scrambler pistols a ton and love them as well). Scrambler Rifles are fun too, so i no longer find the TAR NEEDS to exist. However, I believe most of the problems with the TAR come from the bad aim in CQ. Where the TAR is supposed to be vulnerable, 80% of the player base (sometimes myself included) struggle to really keep up with targets. Therefore the TAR user simply has to strafe and put distance back between him and his enemy and take them out while doing so. If a nerf occurs to TAR at CQ it needs a buff at mid/long range. Right now the big issue is that it can hipfire so well. If you remove that, I would say we need to reduce the recoil on ADS shots. Right... because people already have SO much trouble killing with the TAR at it's max range... The last thing we need to do is to take an already OP weapon, hinder slightly it so that it has some drawback to it, then BUFF it's already OP long range capabilities. The scrambler rifle overheats, has less range than the TAR, the basic SCR has almost the same PG req's as the proto TAR, you get weapon feedback damage if you fire it more than 14 times in rapid succession (not counting if you charged a shot first, then it's more like 4-5), has no sharpshooter skill, has a scope with no zoom, and even has a slower max ROF than the TAR. And the TAR? Has a slightly smaller clip, does slightly less damage to shields (though it still does 110% v shields) and has a tiny bit of recoil when ADS. Draw backs need to be added to the TAR to make the two weapons more in line with each other, not add a drawback to the TAR and counter it with a further buff. The SCR is already pretty balanced among the other weapons in the game, so when the TAR outshines it by this much, things need to be fixed.

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 175	Posted - 2013.05.17 23:56:00 - [161] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: I guess it's not as bad as when they somehow released fully auto TARs back when there was a 'basic' version. Still RoF is the issue and anyone who doesn't agree either uses it or pubstomps with friends who use it. It should be less than the breach with significantly more damage. Alaika Arbosa wrote: 99% of my deaths since Uprising have been to a Tactical AR of some variety or another. I vote they be made the Sci-Fi version of a bolt action rifle. I've highlighted the perfect solution. Give it an animation and everything, make it a bolt-action DMR. Maybe give it nearly the same damage as a Breach AR of the same tier, laser accurate, but with something like a 4 second delay between shots where you are manually operating the bolt to discharge the old "casing" (since they aren't truly projectile weapons, I doubt they really have casings) and loading the next round into the chamber. Voila, Tac AR that isn't broken.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 528	Posted - 2013.05.18 00:12:00 - [162] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: I guess it's not as bad as when they somehow released fully auto TARs back when there was a 'basic' version. Still RoF is the issue and anyone who doesn't agree either uses it or pubstomps with friends who use it. It should be less than the breach with significantly more damage. Alaika Arbosa wrote: 99% of my deaths since Uprising have been to a Tactical AR of some variety or another. I vote they be made the Sci-Fi version of a bolt action rifle. I've highlighted the perfect solution. Give it an animation and everything, make it a bolt-action DMR. Maybe give it nearly the same damage as a Breach AR of the same tier, laser accurate, but with something like a 4 second delay between shots where you are manually operating the bolt to discharge the old "casing" (since they aren't truly projectile weapons, I doubt they really have casings) and loading the next round into the chamber. Voila, Tac AR that isn't broken. 1 bullet every 4 seconds with only breach level damage? Now that's the other extreme, you would completely break the TAR by doing that. And after them being almost completely useless last build, I'd hate for them to be broken again. A scout wouldn't even loose half of it's shields, and it's shields would be fully restored before you got your next shot off at that damage. Just to clarify.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 175	Posted - 2013.05.18 00:16:00 - [163] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: I guess it's not as bad as when they somehow released fully auto TARs back when there was a 'basic' version. Still RoF is the issue and anyone who doesn't agree either uses it or pubstomps with friends who use it. It should be less than the breach with significantly more damage. Alaika Arbosa wrote: 99% of my deaths since Uprising have been to a Tactical AR of some variety or another. I vote they be made the Sci-Fi version of a bolt action rifle. I've highlighted the perfect solution. Give it an animation and everything, make it a bolt-action DMR. Maybe give it nearly the same damage as a Breach AR of the same tier, laser accurate, but with something like a 4 second delay between shots where you are manually operating the bolt to discharge the old "casing" (since they aren't truly projectile weapons, I doubt they really have casings) and loading the next round into the chamber. Voila, Tac AR that isn't broken. 1 bullet every 4 seconds with only breach level damage? Now that's the other extreme, you would completely break the TAR by doing that. And after them being almost completely useless last build, I'd hate for them to be broken again. A scout wouldn't even loose half of it's shields, and it's shields would be fully restored before you got your next shot off at that damage. Just to clarify. Take note, I said "something like a 4 second delay", it was a suggestion. I trust you understand what I mean despite my bad choice in numbers. I really think it needs to be the DMR of Dust, not a Sniper Rifle, but an Assault Rifle that acts more like a Sniper Rifle than an Assault Rifle.
GoD-NoVa Imperfects Negative-Feedback 307	Posted - 2013.05.18 00:25:00 - [164] - Quote im not gonna sit here and convince these tards that the TAC is fine, just lower the RoF slightly since everyone cant figure out how to use any other gun against a TAC. my solution for CCP is to release the other weapons for each class and work them into their own niche
Sontie Ill Omens EoN. 320	Posted - 2013.05.18 08:11:00 - [165] - Quote A Duvolle AR kills me faster than a Duvolle TAC, unless the user is in the top5% in terms of aiming. AR is more useful in cqc out to short range than the tac. The tac shines at medium range. I don't understand the problem. The LR and the MD need a buff.
Sontie Ill Omens EoN. 320	Posted - 2013.05.18 08:13:00 - [166] - Quote To "balance" the TAR, a ROF decrease is all that is needed. maybe 450 RPM. To compensate, the TAC needs a hipfire buff to stand a chance in cqc with good dancing.
Sontie Ill Omens EoN. 320	Posted - 2013.05.18 08:13:00 - [167] - Quote The SCR needs a heat per round adjustment as well as a buff to the speed at which it bleeds heat.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 426	Posted - 2013.05.18 08:16:00 - [168] - Quote Sontie wrote: To "balance" the TAR, a ROF decrease is all that is needed. maybe 450 RPM. To compensate, the TAC needs a hipfire buff to stand a chance in cqc with good dancing. hm you been on the forums more then usual. but yes I agree RoF but it should atleast be even with the breach AR(400) or less but its up for CCP to see and do it as something need to happen to put back in balance.
Cybus Trama'dol EYE Security Task Force and Resources Acquisition 60	Posted - 2013.05.18 09:57:00 - [169] - Quote Sontie wrote: To "balance" the TAR, a ROF decrease is all that is needed. maybe 450 RPM. To compensate, the TAC needs a hipfire buff to stand a chance in cqc with good dancing. I still think nerf the clip size a lot and hipfire would do the trick. For cqc a tac ar user should be switching to a sidearm anyway (unless you are logi assaulting) so hipfire should be bad. This way the RoF and damage doesn't need tweaking as the penalty will be frequent reloading. This would balance as it would force proper usage of the tac ar class of weapon.
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 583	Posted - 2013.05.18 09:58:00 - [170] - Quote ladwar wrote: its high RoF of is being abused by modded controller. so change the RoF simple, been saying it for a while.

Whizawk Omega Risk Control Services General Tso's Alliance 0	Posted - 2013.05.20 00:50:00 - [171] - Quote I seem to mostly have the problem with Duvolle and the GLU In my opinion, either one of these options would keep the balance: - Decrease RoF or decrease the damage. - Increase recoil so that the weapon delivers more of a kick causing the weapon to suffer from severe dispersion while rapid-firing. - Increase intensity of muzzle-flash so that players will have to suffer from poor visability while firing. - Decrease accuracy, especially whilst hip-firing and on the move. - Decrease magazine size so they get less shots off. - Increase the cost of the weapons both in purchase and CPU/PG to act as deterrent.
Sorry Wrong Chat Phantom Universe Task Force Orion Empire 2	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:46:00 - [172] - Quote The TAC AR is OP imho. Using a modded controller helps to misuse the TAC AR. In RL every gear has a minimum time gap before the next bullet can bet shot. To avoid too fast shooting: design a minimum load time, similary to the charge time e.g. as a Charge Sniper Rifle uses it. You as a designer can decide how fast a weapon may shoot in singleshot-modus per second. You should consider that using a RL gear is a bit more complicated than pressing R1 or LMB. Another solution could be to build up a reduction of the "Accuracy Rating" the faster it is used --> similary to a heat-build up
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 318	Posted - 2013.05.21 18:36:00 - [173] - Quote Supposedly the Minny Combat Rifle is basically like a "Burst" Rifle, and the Rail rifle is a bit like a Breach. I figure they could just remove the TAR altogether, and make the longer range slow-fire rifle a Rail thing. In the short term anyway, it let's them do some internal testing on that sort of damage setup and screw around with the balance suggestions people have been giving. Ideally balance doesn't go back and forth weekly. With more test time, you can unveil the "finished" version with the Caldari weapon type.
Nariec Carbon 7 18	Posted - 2013.05.21 19:11:00 - [174] - Quote This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine. On a serious note, I do love the weapon, but when I went to YouTube and saw people use it, it was like a burst AR. I'm not sure if that guy was using a modded control, but I do think it was, I couldn't fire that fast, and the TAR is always my weapon of choice. I know that it has high recoil, but most players gets around it by tapping the fire button in controlled burst, but it shouldn't fire 3-6 rounds in 1 tap of the button. I say reduce its RoF a little bit or put something so people can't use moded controllers with it, so all this complains about TAR being OP can go away.
Skilfer Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 32	Posted - 2013.05.24 00:48:00 - [175] - Quote It is my current understanding that racial weapon variants, as with the various AR's to be in DUST (i.e. blaster, projectile, laser, rail), relate to each other in the following way: Damage (From Least to Greatest): Rail --> Laser --> Projectile --> Blaster Range (From Least to Greatest): Blaster --> Projectile --> Laser --> Rail CCP, if the relation between racial variants of a specific weapon class differ in DUST, I personally would like to know to help make sense of the current situation. Otherwise, if the relationships above are indeed supposed to be true in DUST as well, given equivalent models for each Racial AR, Rail rifles will end up with an effective range rivaling a sniper rifle which is simply ludicrous. The TAC AR upsets the balance of everything else, and honestly, once the other racial AR's are released, I cannot foresee a logical reason for it to continue existing. Having each of the weapons line up in the manner thay do in the relationship above, and stay to true to that provides AR's for numerous different situations and play styles with each having a logical counter to the other.
Raze galder Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 50	Posted - 2013.05.24 03:12:00 - [176] - Quote Why don't they just remove the tar and refund the so used for it
Zyrus Amalomyn Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 161	Posted - 2013.05.24 05:13:00 - [177] - Quote GoD-NoVa wrote: im not gonna sit here and convince these tards that the TAC is fine, just lower the RoF slightly since everyone cant figure out how to use any other gun against a TAC. my solution for CCP is to release the other weapons for each class and work them into their own niche Only people who think the TAC is fine is those farming with it, and since you're an Imperfect... Yeah, pretty sure no one here is caring for your arrogance.
Dale Templar Regime Of Shadow Marines Alpha Wolf Pack 4	Posted - 2013.05.24 05:20:00 - [178] - Quote Personally, it's fine the way it is but if you must... Reduce RoF so people stop going on about modded controllers, but a reasonable person can still fire as fast as they pull the trigger. Reduce clipsize to 15. Everyone's happy. But do NOT mess with the range, it's a DMR/M14/Battle Rifle basically, it's made for medium-long range.
Soraya Xel New Eden's Most Wanted Gentlemen's Agreement 75	Posted - 2013.05.24 05:22:00 - [179] - Quote I love the feel of the TAR. Assault rifles generally come in auto, burst, and single-shot versions, and the TAR delivers well on the single-shot AR. That being said... it's OP. As a TAR user... like, for serious, few to no players pose a challenge to it, except for other TARs. Then we get in a TAR-off until someone dies.
Jenova's Witness Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2013.05.24 06:07:00 - [180] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I love the feel of the TAR. Assault rifles generally come in auto, burst, and single-shot versions, and the TAR delivers well on the single-shot AR. That being said... it's OP. As a TAR user... like, for serious, few to no players pose a challenge to it, except for other TARs. Then we get in a TAR-off until someone dies. When people using an OP weapon say that it's OP, we have a serious problem.



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