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KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 348	Posted - 2013.05.13 15:44:00 - [121] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: The TAC AR is perfect the way it is and needs no change. A 77k weapon should obviously work. No serious AKer is ready to spend around 100k per round on a suit and a gun that shoots rubber ducks. Isk price will not bring gameplay balance on the field. Sorry, that is the last way of affecting it (and real free market will handle it)
Sparrow Darkly Martyrdom Inc Insurance Fraud. 3	Posted - 2013.05.13 16:45:00 - [122] - Quote Drop rate of fire, but increase damage and drop recoil. A lot of players may cry at this suggestion. I believe it to be a fair trade off that will ensure it can still be effective in battle at longer range (as it was intended), but wont be exploited by modded controllers or quite as effective at close quarters combat. Problem solved, lets move onto other topics.
RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries 50	Posted - 2013.05.13 16:47:00 - [123] - Quote The Duvolle hits too hard, certainly needs it's damage looked at or else the RoF. The others are ok in my opinion. Up the ranges on other ARs to compete.
Luis rules 1st Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 2	Posted - 2013.05.13 18:04:00 - [124] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I like 2 and 4 but 1 is just not true. It has enough subtle kick to it that you can't auto fire with it. Having it overheat is kind of silly, I'd probably just go for a smaller clip size and lower ammo capacity to tame the damn thing. Not gonna say they have controls modified or anything I'm not even sure sure what I'm sure is that a guy at really close range shot me down with that thing in less than a sec I don't have any issue losing a battle, but he did it about five times, then I realized he actually was using duvolle tactical, but shooting faster than normal duvolle. Yup, you read right. FASTER! so he took my +400HP in less than a sec This is pretty easy to find out, since you hear the shots and that way you can realize if he's using a normal AR or tactical. I was using an Ishukone SMG, so the story shouldn't be like that. At least at close
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 351	Posted - 2013.05.14 04:19:00 - [125] - Quote As discussion about modded/'modded'/autofire controllers is elemental part of TAC AR discussion, here are my comments on them. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=799659#post799659 TLDR; The thing people call 'modded' controllers are often modern input devices (controllers/mice). They are present day. Game designers job is to take autofiring devices into account and make sure no weapon is balanced assuming lazy fingers.
wild wendigo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2	Posted - 2013.05.14 10:11:00 - [126] - Quote Mice with macros, rapidfire controller mods are what are causing it. Dropping the ROF will take care of both and add more hip-fire recoil too will help balance the thing. As it is the only real counter (without being able to get behind them) is to snipe them from greater range really. If you're lucky you might get one or two with a LAV but someone will eventually grenade you.
Skilfer Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 31	Posted - 2013.05.14 21:08:00 - [127] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: I used the Tac until it became a death cannon. I used it for a few matches after the damage bump, then laughed and put it away because it just makes things FAR too easy. I'll use the burst 'til that beast calms down a bit. It's the damage and the ROF. Fix one and the other will be fine. I agree. As such, I think the Tac rifle's damage should be brought back to what it was before the buff, or perhaps only a 5% increase rather than the 10. RoF could be decreased slightly as well. Overall, I think it needs, if not anything else, a temporary nerf to get people away from the gun to simply help with numbers. Regardless, we can all agree this is without a doubt a problem.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 4117	Posted - 2013.05.15 18:20:00 - [128] - Quote quick bump.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 421	Posted - 2013.05.15 18:48:00 - [129] - Quote @KEROSIINI-TERO I agree with the adjustment to hip-fire accuracy. I think this is the most important aspect of the TAR to adjust in order to differentiate it from the AR. As far as reducing damage and range I think its a mistake for the time being; the problem with the TAR is that its excellent at its optimal range, and all other ranges. If we nerf it too hard it will become useless like last build. Just push its optimal range closer to its max range by gimping hip-fire and requiring ADS and we will have a healthy contender with the ScR that isn't outperforming in all situations.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 446	Posted - 2013.05.15 18:51:00 - [130] - Quote Honestly this weapon is balanced (could remove the 10% blanket buff all weapons rcv'ed) but there is no weapon to counter it. Laser needs to be buffed from being nerfed to the ground (I havent died from laser once in this new build). Max range on laser needs to be the same as the tact AR (might even argue a tad further) and the optimal range should be from 60 - max range. If you do this you will probably see (some) tact AR users coming in and complaining that the laser is pwning them at range. Oh and lasers could also do with a change in sights to something similar to the scrambler. Other than the issue that the tact can outrange any weapon other than the sniper the tact is balanced very well. If you try to shoot as fast as its RPM allows you wont hit squat after your first couple rounds. For those who say it is a monster in CQC. Apparently they have not met up with a good AR user as the reg AR will run circles around the tact in CQC.

Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 40	Posted - 2013.05.15 18:55:00 - [131] - Quote The TARs both have significant kick and need no nerf. Perhaps the skill of the player has more to do with the number of kills rather than the frequency in which a person can put bullets into someone. While using an TAR I generally get 3 shots into someone at range while they are moving. A close up target is significantly easier to hit and targets at extreme range are usually only one hit shots. None of this means that it is OP. How many of you also use Duvolles to mow down groups of noobs or use a MD to blow them to bits? We have new weapons on the market, how about some comparison to a top level Scrambler Rifle or Plasma Cannon?
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 221	Posted - 2013.05.15 19:13:00 - [132] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Honestly this weapon is balanced how many TAR threads do you plan to infestate with your denial?
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 96	Posted - 2013.05.15 19:45:00 - [133] - Quote the hipfire is very accurate for both the tac and the scrifle.
DustMercsBlog Galactic News Network 70	Posted - 2013.05.15 22:32:00 - [134] - Quote our TAC AR piece http://tinyurl.com/chvvs44
Vallud Eadesso Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 120	Posted - 2013.05.15 22:37:00 - [135] - Quote I was going to write out a huge post to this, but honestly I can sum it up quickly and simply: The Tactical AR has no hard counter. If you're an assault rifle user and have a Tac AR, you're clearly in a superior position than almost everyone else. You can shoot just as fast with practice, if you're using a mouse you're more accurate, and there is no doubt you out range everyone else. I can't think of a way to address it, honestly. It's RoF needs a hard cap applies, it's damage value addressed and to be honest, when we get Caldari rifles, it needs removing. It just feels like one of their guns.
Raze galder Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2013.05.15 23:16:00 - [136] - Quote You could make it so if u fire the gun too fast it jams kind of like the overheat mechanic for the scrambler rifle.
Moonracer2000 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 482	Posted - 2013.05.16 00:39:00 - [137] - Quote I'm not sure what can be added that hasn't been said in the many threads on this gun. ROF is too high (regardless of how players achieve it). Hip-fire is too viable, making it a short and long range weapon.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 168	Posted - 2013.05.16 00:56:00 - [138] - Quote ladwar wrote: its high RoF of is being abused by modded controller. so change the RoF simple, been saying it for a while. 99% of my deaths since Uprising have been to a Tactical AR of some variety or another. I vote they be made the Sci-Fi version of a bolt action rifle.
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet 22	Posted - 2013.05.16 09:37:00 - [139] - Quote - Drop the RoF to 120-180 RPM. That's 2-3 rounds/second. - Increase hip fire kick drastically - Modify damage falloff in mid range. It's enhanced range shouldn't give it as drastic an increase in mid-range/long range damage as it has now. Damage is fine. It's on-par with the Scram Rifle, but the scram rifle has Overheating, Feedback damage, and a much lower effective range. Price shouldn't even come in to the equation. Saying a 100k gun should 'perform' is stupid. My Imperial Scrambler Rifle costst 100k, and it doesent perform like the TAC.
Aeon Amadi WarRavens 1330	Posted - 2013.05.16 10:03:00 - [140] - Quote Honestly, I feel the 'modded controller' argument is an absolute joke and in many cases I've achieved a very fast rate of fire just by maintaining a cool, calm and collected (right) panicked trigger finger. Now, you can't really maintain a good shot through the scope but any shooter worth his salt can line up the scope on the target and control his fire intervals to land the shots. Recoil won't do jack about that and it's honestly just fine where it is considering the skill requirement just to use the thing is already heavily reducing the high recoil. What I will say is this: Pros: High damage - It was okay during May 6 - 14 but when the 10% weapon buff kicked in to shorten combat length it upset the balance pretty hard. Before that buff, shield/armor could take the damage if the person was smart in their maneuvering. Since then, it's just been wrecking people before they can even react to where the fire is coming from. High Range - Now, I caught onto this long before anyone else and can proudly say that I was using this weapon while others were still bitching about the Vanilla AR's range. I could safely fire from a good distance and a lot of my kills were from players who were used to the Sharpshooter skill attempting to fire, only to have their rounds disappear infront of my face. BS? Yes, but it was effective and it works for the weapon. Magazine Capacity - 30 rounds is a bit much for the damage it puts out. This is not to say that the magazine should be reduced if the damage is reduced, nor is it an excuse to go ahead and reduce it if the recoil is increased. Fix one thing, not all of them - this is how weapons become broken. Ammunition Control: Being a single shot weapon, it's hard to run out of ammo and that was a -BIG- issue when everyone was finding out that the nanohives were botched from the get go. Militia Nanohives wouldn't even bring back a single clip and standard ones weren't much better. Being as this weapon forces ammunition conservancy, it's listed here as a pro. Cons: Hip-Fire Dispersion: Most of my life saving moments were from using this weapon like mad and just mashing the trigger to put rounds downrange in CQC. Sometimes they die, sometimes I have to switch to the SMG. Either way, it's not reliable and usually takes a lot of rounds. This is fine, considering it's purpose. ..... That's about it. Honestly, this weapon was fine before the 10% increase in damage. It's powerful in capable hands and practical in the new player's. Shave off a little damage, see what happens but let it go slowly.... And I swear to both CCP and the CPM, if there's some crazy ass numbers game like the Vehicle HP buffs (Starter LAVs are BS) I will quit this game. There is absolutely no reason for these drastic buffs/nerfs that are going into play as of late. Work slowly, and fine tune the numbers - stop just throwing out random percentages and hoping everything works out. You already made the Plasma Cannon DOA as an AV weapon.

Cybus Trama'dol EYE Security Task Force and Resources Acquisition 47	Posted - 2013.05.16 10:41:00 - [141] - Quote As it is effectivly being used like the Tier 1 sniper with 4x on MAG, treat is as one. Reduce clip size to impose a penalty for spamming shots 10 in a clip should do. If you are using an accurate mid-long range weapon then you need to have accurate mid-long range shots. Not just spam the trigger in the general direction until enough bullets hit. Then you can leave the fire rate and damage as is but at least they have to stop and reload so firing blindly into a group of red dots will result in less kills and the reload pause gives you chance to gain some ground. If they want to rinse and entire clip in 2 seconds let them. Also CQC hipfire accuracy needs to be reduced accordingly, but a smaller clip size should also mitigate close quarters button mashing tactics.
XeroTheBigBoss Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 300	Posted - 2013.05.16 10:45:00 - [142] - Quote I think it's fine and requires real aim to use.
Cybus Trama'dol EYE Security Task Force and Resources Acquisition 47	Posted - 2013.05.16 10:50:00 - [143] - Quote XeroTheBigBoss wrote: I think it's fine and requires real aim to use. To use properly yes I agree, but with the amount of bullets available and the achievable RoF then not so much. If I choose to I can go the same with the GLU (And yes I know I am contributing to the problem here, I'll be the 1st to admit it... but to remain competitive.....................) I can just spam into a group and get easy(er) kills than with any other weapon. I'm not suggesting a big nerf, just the incentive to use correctly.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1380	Posted - 2013.05.16 10:53:00 - [144] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: - Drop the RoF to 120-180 RPM. That's 2-3 rounds/second. - Increase hip fire kick drastically - Modify damage falloff in mid range. It's enhanced range shouldn't give it as drastic an increase in mid-range/long range damage as it has now. Damage is fine. It's on-par with the Scram Rifle, but the scram rifle has Overheating, Feedback damage, and a much lower effective range. Price shouldn't even come in to the equation. Saying a 100k gun should 'perform' is stupid. My Imperial Scrambler Rifle costst 100k, and it doesent perform like the TAC. I agree with you except for the falloff. If the weapon is tweaked so it becomes a pain to use at close range, then the job is done. I would also add that recoil through ADS needs to be reduced to balance hip fire kick raise. At the moment, even at 60-70m there's no point in using the ADS compared to hip fire.
Knight SoIaire Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 421	Posted - 2013.05.16 19:28:00 - [145] - Quote I have both used it and been on the horrible receiving end of it. 1. CCP need to put a limiter on it to counter 'Turbo Controllers' 2. Crosshair size needs to be increased, players should have to resort to a sidearm when engaging in CQC. 3. Either increase Scrambler Rifle Max/Optimal range, or decrease TAR Max/Optimal range so they're both on the same level, range-wise, also do the same with the Assault SCR and Basic AR. Thats what I think needs changing. It shouldn't serve as an all purpose weapon (CQC, mid-range, long range) it should only fit into Mid-Long range combat.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 755	Posted - 2013.05.16 19:29:00 - [146] - Quote My biggest issue is how good it is in close combat. I'm quite adept at closing in on long range weapon users, but the Tac guys are nearly as dangerous in shotgun/SMG range as they are from overwatch positions. It's like they simultaneously have a sniper rifle and breach scrambler pistol. Also 30 rounds in the clip seems excessive when they can drop most mercs in three to five shots. (They could probably OHK scouts with damage mods.) Edit: What Solaire said. \o/ Praise the Sun!
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 5	Posted - 2013.05.17 02:42:00 - [147] - Quote The TAC-AR of Chromosome was perfect, in my opinion. I loved it and preferred it to the other AR variants, despite it being niche and less valued. It allowed me to easily tackle targets at long range while sacrificing most of my close range effectiveness, which is how the weapon should function.
RoTTeN-1 Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.05.17 03:48:00 - [148] - Quote Just tried all 3 proto assault rifles, Tac is fine takes some skill to use. Alo burst has the same scope on it but cant hit crap at any distance, Its useless. Same for the Duv assault. Fix the range and you will see less QQ. 65m max on an AR is a joke and has broken the game. I cant even get friends to play anymore. They would rather play old @ss MAG.
bacon blaster VENGEANCE FOR HIRE 34	Posted - 2013.05.17 04:51:00 - [149] - Quote The rof needs to be adressed. Because of skills and damage mods, I'm seeing people do something like 100 damage per shot. You combine this with modded controllers, the hi dps, and the giant range, and people are able to take out heavies in less than a second at something like 6 times the heavie's effective range (which is still about 10 meters. I run heavy, shut up) I know someone was using a tar instead of a normal ar when I'm dead almost as soon as I get shot.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1381	Posted - 2013.05.17 09:51:00 - [150] - Quote Okay, i have a video i would like feedback on : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysf8x477c30 At 4:00, dude starts firing 3 different IRL weapons. one full auto and 2 semi-auto. Imo, the TAC AR should behave exactly like the third weapon. Roughly one shot per second. but a pretty steady aim when ADS. And obviously, using such a gun hip-firing wouldnt give good result. Guy doesnt try but it's kinda obvious. To be more accurate, should be a mix of the second and third gun imo.



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