The balance is any tank weapon can one-shot a infantry unit (ok, blasters don't one-shot, but they kill infantry fast, so you get my point) but AV units need to get multiple shots on tanks, which have incredibly bad maneuverability to make up for their power and armor.

but you can take down one proto tank with normal avs and militia swarms

The balance is any tank weapon can one-shot a infantry unit (ok, blasters don't one-shot, but they kill infantry fast, so you get my point) but AV units need to get multiple shots on tanks, which have incredibly bad maneuverability to make up for their power and armor.

Yet one guy with av grenades beat a tank.... Hey balance where are you!?

But your proto blaster tank can literally OHK militia and standard infantry it is so powerful. Your proto railgun can OHK infantry with blast-damage. And your proto missile launcher can OHK with blast-damage as well.

But proto AV gear can't OHK any kind of tank, militia or otherwise, so I think you HAV drivers have the better side of things.

You could shoot the guy with the AV grenades...or just drive away from his range.

AV grenades are not as powerful as people are claiming. It takes quite a few from a Nanohive or Supply Depot to take down a good tank. Even a Militia tank takes more than one troop can hold.

Also there is good balance with AV grenades in distance thrown and DMG done when choosing grenades.

A smart group uses Flux grenades first and then AV grenades against a tank. This is especially important with a good tank.

Right now though we do not have much more than Militia vehicles and people with low grade equipment. Of course grenades seem more powerful again.

Wrong proto av OHK all kinds of LAVs.... HAVs don't feel like tanks they feel like slow moving death traps waiting to find an ambush

Wrong proto av OHK all kinds of LAVs.... HAVs don't feel like tanks they feel like slow moving death traps waiting to find an ambush

Before he throws 3 av grenades and your tank goes boom??? 8/10 times the tank loses

What I think is that, to be fair for everyone (and improve it greatly for everyone), all vehicle and AV starter fits should be removed. Keep militia, but there are both too many starter fit LAVs and too many starter fit AVers.

If something takes down my methana, at least let it be a standard swarm, instead of a militia BPO swarm.

He is missing the God Tanks from the E3 build.

Zitro you should know that tanks need infantry support and without it one can easily solo a tank due to its lack of speed/maneuverability. This is the same in real life you rarely see tanks just going in somewhere and get the job done on their own. Not to say it can't but, with decent comms and a little situational awareness a man can easily solo a solo driver with ease. This is all but the same universally through out the game world and reality.

I don't know how it is now since I can't use AVs yet but, before the reset I remember many times I would get a direct hit on a tank with AV nades and not even scratch their shields. This happened to me many of times I just chalked it up to good module load outs.

Just so I'm clear Mr zitro who only a short while told us all to upgrade our gear or quit QQ'ing when we're fairly Rofl stomped is complaining that AV grenades popped his militia tank? Maybe try not calling in the tank on the smallest ambush map we have, I've seen you do it. Because the general answer to your problem is if the tank had proper infantry support those nades would have never gotten close enough.

You should really know that ambush spawns make it possible for people to spawn right behind a tank and av grenade away but you are so right, I want tanks to solo and win a game... Please tell me more

To MCBob: I'm not sure if it was the E3 build, but it was near impossible to destroy them. Where you could call in one and solo a whole team. Where you didn't need to aim the rail gun.

I got into them, and it was way too easy. They were broken.

Cause that was a maxed out tank

It doesnt really bother me when i lose tank, it bothers me when i lose a tank to one kid and av grenades or militia swarms thats somehow does 4000 while i have a hardener on but how can I level stuff up when I don't have sp? Might want to think that through... Just saying

This is quickly becoming a "classic" thread, so I will try to put this down before it is buried under thousands of argument comments between the AV people and the HAV pilots.

You can't be asking for balance before anyone has gotten to standard tanks yet, the AV grenade is a standard piece of equipment, and the tanks in use currently are militia, so it is hardly a comparison. A standard locus grenade can OHK militia heavies, so you should be so lucky that three standard AV grenades will only severely damage your militia tank.

It just might be due to the fact that harndeners and resistances for armor seem to be just straight broke right now. It seems everything that does bonus damage to armor works but anything that helps armor resilience doesnt. It would really help to know if the core function of the items we use are actually working before we make tweaks.

Why in the hell are you parking somewhere, where your infantry support is nowhere near you?

You deserve someone sneaking up behind you like a scout who throws down 3 proxy detos and then throwing an av nade to lite them off.

It doesnt really bother me when i lose tank, it bothers me when i lose a tank to one kid and av grenades or militia swarms thats somehow does 4000 while i have a hardener on but how can I level stuff up when I don't have sp? Might want to think that through... Just saying

Standard av grenades do 1500 damage per nade. Swarms do 1200 per volley and forges do about the same... Yep a little stick doing that much damage is ridiculous IMO

I was not attacking you and never stated that you wanted tanks to be a win button, was just stating that you have been here long enough to know that. Yet your comment was lacking the facts and I posted them.

The problem right now is the lack of comms between tankers and their teams and, I mean the whole team not just your squad. If teams could come together in chat a least a little(yes I know some do not have UVTs but, I feel that they should get one. Just my opinion on a different topic) the out comes would be very different for these extremely pricey assets.

Yes that is the problem with ambush but this is the situation you put yourself in when bringing a tank into one. On a spawn someone starts off with a serious ambush on you tank. I think the issue there is with spawning not with the balance.

You personally take everything that responds to you as a attack, true a lot of people do given the way you responded to my post I can see why. I personally have no issue but, don't appreciate the way you came back and attacked me when there was not any offense on my side.

I don't need any post from others saying that this is the way they are thanks.

Armor tanks have the movement speed of a heavy with all armor plates and half a leg. So unless you try the vehicle an know how it handles, don't talk about things you don't understand

Armor tanks have the movement speed of a heavy with all armor plates and half a leg. So unless you try the vehicle an know how it handles, don't talk about things you don't understand

You have a good point; however to be fair, you should still have infantry guarding your flanks and some good gunners (IMO, I think it's best to have a small blaster on the front with a small railgun on top)

This just gave me an idea- how about an active module that drastically decreases the damage of all turrets, but increases movement speed/acceleration and shield/armor resistance by a ton? More or less a mechanism for an emergency retreat.

ALM1GHTY says tanks are OP and says ccp doesn't listen. Here you're saying they are UP and ccp doesn't listen. I have thought that tanks are weak for the cost. And vehicles on the whole are under utilized ATM.

But when two leet players disagree on the same subject and both want ccp to listen to them, who should ccp listen to?

I think ccp is doing a good job of balancing the game and sifting through all the QQ.

Have you tried throwing a fuel injector in the high slot perhaps, we were rolling Soma's before the end of last reset and other than the obvious need for a better than militia armor repper, a fuel injector was the only other active mod that substantially increased our effectiveness. Our rule of thumb became never stop moving if you can possibly help it.

Almighty thinks everything is op so don't take him seriously. I have rarely called for a nerf but av either need a nerf or tanks need a buff

Don't post please! I won't point out how stupid this statement is or how stupid I think you are so just don't post again, please

Almighty thinks everything is op so don't take him seriously. I have rarely called for a nerf but av either need a nerf or tanks need a buff

How about me telling you as an AV that the most difficult tanks to kill are the ones that surround themselves with infantry? and are constantly on the move enough that I don't have to pop shoot die respawn repeat before you have a chance to repair.

By moving around you add minutes to a soloist av trying to kill you.

I always play in a squad so if you have seen me you would know that. And as for taking it as an attack, lol you basically said teamwork is the key to keeping a tank alive... Nope the ability to micro manage your tanks mods is what keeps it alive. So go try a tank out with some teamwork and tell me how it goes

Running from one av stops you yes, but when half the team is av that hurts you more. Try playing in a tank then tell me about

IF TANKS GET A BUFF MY ASSAULT SUIT NEEDS A BUFF IN EITHER STRAFE SPEED OR HEALTH.

I hope you where not the idiot I remote demo'ed yesterday....

The spawns are so dumb it puts forges next to me and kids with av grenades. You want me to have a squad just walking around my tank??? Are your serious?

I like the way you beg boy.

This is why I said I think some of you issue is with spawns not so much with the balance. Balance still yes but the spawns are still an issue.

It's both spawns and av nades, nades doing more damage than a volley of swarms and a forge. That doesn't make sense to me

The spawns are so dumb it puts forges next to me and kids with av grenades. You want me to have a squad just walking around my tank??? Are your serious?

Civility is obviously beyond you.

You want an AV grenade nerf???? The person with an AV grenade has to try and escape infantry and be out of the view of a tank with 2 gunners. Then he has to throw grenades and be standing in a nanohive to reload and throw some more.

Most tanks drive off after the 2nd grenade and you can't chase it into the spawn. Plus, the tank kills you more times than not.

Wait...is this a troll or a serious thread asking for av grenades to be nerfed??

If you're stupid enough to bring an HAV into a tiny ambush, you deserve to have it blown up. I thought you were talking about skirmish where vehicles actually make sense to use.

This is ambush talk not skirmish -.-

Sounds like you get spawn naded quite a bit. So how about they fix the the spawns then see how effective they are because they wont be right on you all the time. I know who you run with and there is no reason some one should be able to get that close to your tank unless they deserved to be there.

I know that now but you didn't state that till like a couple post ago, or at least I didn't catch it till then. I agree with Ydubbs though right now tanks just don't belong in ambush do to the faults of the game type. Just in the same way the dropships are all but pointless given the faults of the game right now.

Question: has anyone ran a tank with logis running behind it repairing it, a la BF3?

Is it effective?

You want an AV grenade nerf???? The person with an AV grenade has to try and escape infantry and be out of the view of a tank with 2 gunners. Then he has to throw grenades and be standing in a nanohive to reload and throw some more.

Most tanks drive off after the 2nd grenade and you can't chase it into the spawn. Plus, the tank kills you more times than not.

Wait...is this a troll or a serious thread asking for av grenades to be nerfed??

Read the earlier post,they spawn next to my tank! Do you speak another language want me to translate?

Skirmish is a graveyard for tanks, people who think skirmish is better for tanks are stupid! Even if you rail tank snipe it's just pathetic

Standard av grenades do 1500 damage per nade. Swarms do 1200 per volley and forges do about the same... Yep a little stick doing that much damage is ridiculous IMO

1500 isn't **** to a standard tank with decent mods, but you are running militia, and like I said, you can't complain about balance without matching standard against standard. Go get a Gunnlogi/Madrugar with decent mods(basically no militia mods), get hit by three AV grenades, die, then come back to talk balance.
But I'm thinking you won't die.

1500 isn't **** to a standard tank with decent mods, but you are running militia, and like I said, you can't complain about balance without matching standard against standard. Go get a Gunnlogi/Madrugar with decent mods(basically no militia mods), get hit by three AV grenades, die, then come back to talk balance.
But I'm thinking you won't die.

You are what I call stupid simple as that, my mods are proto you ******. My fit is the best a soma can get except for a better blaster so if you don't know anything stfu! I think it's amazing how many retards I can find on the forums who think they know more about the class I'm specializing in.

Armor tanks have the movement speed of a heavy with all armor plates and half a leg. So unless you try the vehicle an know how it handles, don't talk about things you don't understand

So much crying.

I've seen several battles where imperfect guys go 20+ - o driving tanks.

Try and solo a good tanker, lik sir Meode from SI or Laz from the bunnies, good luck with that.

Come on guys, you sure cry a lot for being "the best" in the game.

Most shield tanks have about 6000-7000HP

so a single standard AV Grenade will deal 1/5 of it's total EHP.
So thats two of you launching standard AV Grenades at a Tank with a full crew, it'll kill it as he activates boosters and the 6th one lands. If theres 3 of you (so 3v3) he won't stand a chance.

AV and Tanks are not balanced.

Most shield tanks have about 6000-7000HP

so a single standard AV Grenade will deal 1/5 of it's total EHP.
So thats two of you launching standard AV Grenades at a Tank with a full crew, it'll kill it as he activates boosters and the 6th one lands. If theres 3 of you (so 3v3) he won't stand a chance.

AV and Tanks are not balanced.

You are what I call stupid simple as that, my mods are proto you ******. My fit is the best a soma can get except for a better blaster so if you don't know anything stfu! I think it's amazing how many retards I can find on the forums who think they know more about the class I'm specializing in.

Post your fit.

If you see this as crying I see your post as a total ***** fit, I'm talking about balance while your pansy ass is talking about fairness.

LOL.

IMO the tanks are very well balanced indeed. You can't really expect a tank to solo in and own everything like they did roughly 2-3 months ago.

As I've already stated, I se plenty of tankers go 20+ - o.

If you're not up to the challenge or can't get some of your "best in the world" crew to support you then the fault is obvioulsy at your end no?

I bet even half a Protoman could give ample inantry support and mow down all the AV guys that the tank can't get to.

I am talking balance, stop your crying and get better/smarter.

Post your fit.

You forget resistance mods and boosters.
One 10% resistance mod takes 150 damage out of each of those blows, and that's the minimum, because anything above militia grade will have more than that. And if you activate your booster the second you start taking damage, you will grant yourself more than enough time to get out the AV guy's throwing range.
Plus, in your scenario you have two AV guys working in perfect unison, that won't ever happen. (ok, I understand you should never say never, so let me say that will ALMOST never happen, but if the enemy is working together they SHOULD be able to kill you, because if you are out of range of the team-mates that could kill the AV guys, you obviously aren't working with your team.)

I'm not sure...how would you "balance" it?

You know how hard it is to try and get close enough to a tank to launch AVs at it? You may have to gun down 2 or 3 guys just chasing the tank. They don't stick around once they lose a little shields. So, if you throw one grenade on it, they retreat. You have to really flank those tanks. And some of those guys really make it hard. You may die 3x before you throw your first grenade.

Tanks need counters...and just because grenades are effective, it doesn't mean that they need to be nerfed. And if 3 people attack a vehicle, it deserves to be blown up. Otherwise, infantry will never stand a chance. In BF3, you can solo a tank and finish it with C4. It isn't so easy in Dust....and the tanks can kill you just as fast as any tank in any shooter.

Lol so if I beat up on noobs with a scrambler pistol and go 20-0 it's balanced same goes for every other weapon out there? XD what a dumbass! where do I say I expect to solo a game? Might want to read before you talk out of your ass and smear **** everywhere.

No need to be impolite.

I still only hear QQ.

Just like the thread you (or someone else from your corp) made about the tac ARs, claiming they are useless. When the fact of the matter is that they too are very nicely balanced. Just because someone looses their "I win" button doesn't mean that they aren't balanced.

But what do I know, I'we only driven a tank once, I got it handed to me at the end of the last build. I went 21-1 that round, only dying because of my complete scrubbiness as a driver. Sure, I got swarms, AV nades and even forges thrown at me. A little driving and I'm back to full health a minue later.

If a totally useless scrub like me can do that against, lets say, mediocre ressisrance, then whats there to complain about? And I too would like to see the specs for your tank. I also want to challenge you to solo either sir Meode or Laz's tanks and get it on tape. Show me how easy it is to solo a decent tank. (After NDA is lifted.)

I don't think its fair to expect that much from the HAVs 2-3 days after a new build. Level it up for a month and try again. The tank will get a lot better, the AV nades will stay the same.

Funny how its the guy I've mostly seen on the outskirts with a Codewish that does the QQ, not the experienced good tankers...

And once again, you refuse to read any of my post and focus on any point you think might be insulting to you, because obviously you are the center of the subject of all of my posts.
/sarcasm
Get a GUNLOGI OR A MADRUGAR AND DIE FROM THREE STANDARD AV GRENADES then you can rage at me for being an idiot. You, sir, are an idiot for thinking a militia tank should be powerful, aren't you the guy that was advocating the whole "proto needs a significant advantage over militia gear."? Well it does for HAVs.

And proto mods on a militia tank? Really? I don't need to specialize in tanks to know that's a bad idea. I wouldn't put a proto repair tool on my skinweave logistics fit, so you seriously need to rethink your stratagem before complaining about dying.

Lol here is the rules of Zitro! Anything you can do I can do better I can spec anything better than you! Tank 1v1 I could lose only to caeli or slap other than that there is no competition. Codewish on the edge of the map you go the wrong kid, you should get some facts or at least do your homework

You ignored my comment, so I reposted, and I thought the whole "You ignored most of the comment and focused on what you thought was insulting to you" part fit in well after what you just said to Barbar.

I'm not that good at hide and seek. So where is the balance between tanks and av? How about difference in gear? Can someone help me find it

]My soma is a better fit than racing towards a standard tank -.- unless you know how to spec a vehicle please stfu and take some lessons

[quote=
Lol here is the rules of Zitro! Anything you can do I can do better I can spec anything better than you! Tank 1v1 I could lose only to caeli or slap other than that there is no competition. Codewish on the edge of the map you go the wrong kid, you should get some facts or at least do your homework

but you can take down one proto tank with normal avs and militia swarms

im number 100

i hate when people can't properly quote in threads. It completely ruins the thread.

BTW militia forge guns have to go.

CCP should stop tuning this game to for people who get pub stomped and start tuning it for the hardcore players who are going to be mainly fighting in FW

Lol EU server is trash all the competition is on NA so accept the facts, your half decent players are **** on NA and your good players are average. This is the law of the land, I can't say anything about meode but slap is a smart tanker no lie but I can take him 1v1( it's a 50-50) but if I spec the same thing as I would be better same goes for half the player base :) so take some lessons and when you can put a decent fight then talk

Still avoiding the issue, so ansver me straight, could you solo any of the two mentioned tankers with basic AV gear? and I'm especially looking at swarms and Av nades.

And after you guys have kept stating that the NA servers is much more competitive than the EU I've been playing alone on them late at night to find out. (Its now 0600 local time) I've been playing all night and I have done that many times during my extensive 4 week off period around Xmas.

Tell you what, I don't notice any difference, people are just as ********. I might have performed slightly worse from time to time, as is to be expected when playing alone, and in a game with players from the other side of the globe being dominant.

Get some facts on the table to back up your claim. All I hear is "We are America, we are best in the world!"

The chest thumping is strong with this one!

Yes I can solo with basic av and I'm not saying all Americans are better dipshit, I'm saying we have more competition on the NA. What are good EU corps? SI and WTF... Only 2 while NA has IMPS, SyN, PFB( all better than the the EU) STB, Trition, Zion and some other decent corps but can't remember names. The facts are that NA have more competition than any other server. The reason I can chest thump is I can prove I'm better that simple, so take your notebook out and take notes class is in session

Yes I can solo with basic av and I'm not saying all Americans are better dipshit, I'm saying we have more competition on the NA. What are good EU corps? SI and WTF... Only 2 while NA has IMPS, SyN, PFB( all better than the the EU) STB, Trition, Zion and some other decent corps but can't remember names. The facts are that NA have more competition than any other server. The reason I can chest thump is I can prove I'm better that simple, so take your notebook out
and take notes class is in session

Alright, let me make this clear: You aren't a genius.
I don't need a college degree to learn how to "spec into a vehicle." It isn't hard, so stop pretending like no one but you has the L33t 5KILLS to do it.
Also, racing to a standard tank? You don't think that's important? You get more mod slots, more PG, more CPU, more base health, more everything that could be useful to you for upgrading from militia to standard.
Fitting ALL proto mods on a militia tank? Bullsh*t. You don't get nearly enough CPU/PG to do that, even with Circuitry and Combat Engineering maxed out. Not unless you used up all your low slots with PG extenders and CPU boosters, but that would be incredibly stupid, since a standard tank would have enough CPU and PG, plus everything else I listed before.

"My soma is a better fit than...a standard tank"
Your ignorance is confirmed.

Alright, let me make this clear: You aren't a genius.
I don't need a college degree to learn how to "spec into a vehicle." It isn't hard, so stop pretending like no one but you has the L33t 5KILLS to do it.
Also, racing to a standard tank? You don't think that's important? You get more mod slots, more PG, more CPU, more base health, more everything that could be useful to you for upgrading from militia to standard.
Fitting ALL proto mods on a militia tank? Bullsh*t. You don't get nearly enough CPU/PG to do that, even with Circuitry and Combat Engineering maxed out. Not unless you used up all your low slots with PG extenders and CPU boosters, but that would be incredibly stupid, since a standard tank would have enough CPU and PG, plus everything else I listed before.

"My soma is a better fit than...a standard tank"
Your ignorance is confirmed.

Zitro, you know I'm gonna repost my stuff if you refuse to answer it, right? Answer, or if you ignore it, you are admitting I am right.

No sir you logi bro have confirmed your ignorance. Currently you are a idiot if you have skilled into a standard tank already. I have not met a standard tank yet that can 1v1 my sica. Why because you are probably **** fitting your tank either by not haveing enough cp or pg or by not having the access to the better modules to actually make your tank perform better.

@Kingbabar currently I do not think there is a tanker out there I could not pop 1v1 even in 2 weeks once tankers get better gear I could probably pop them with militant gear 1v1 with out any trouble. head glitch and lock through objects with lolswarms laugh at the tanker run. away every time.

I was hoping to get a response from Zitro, but ok, I'll bite.

Haven't met a standard that can beat your SIca? I haven't met any standards, period. That's because people like you refuse to admit standards are spec-worthy, which goes against everything you Imps are always talking about, which is a gap between better tiers of gear.
I don't use tanks. I'm not fitting anything on my standard tank because I don't have one. Before you go off saying "oh, well then you can't say sh*t about tanks if you don't use them" I'm going to say IT IS COMMON SENSE. I listed it before, I can list it again: more mod slots, more CPU, more PG, more base health, etc. etc. need I say more?
Just because you don't like me doesn't allow you to deny reality. A fully decked standard will out-perform Zitro's "Soma with all proto mods" which I still call bullsh*t on.

EDIT: Zitro made a comment while I was writing this, so I'll allow that his tank exists, but I stand by the rest.

I was hoping to get a response from Zitro, but ok, I'll bite.

Haven't met a standard that can beat your SIca? I haven't met any standards, period. That's because people like you refuse to admit standards are spec-worthy, which goes against everything you Imps are always talking about, which is a gap between better tiers of gear.
I don't use tanks. I'm not fitting anything on my standard tank because I don't have one. Before you go off saying "oh, well then you can't say sh*t about tanks if you don't use them" I'm going to say IT IS COMMON SENSE. I listed it before, I can list it again: more mod slots, more CPU, more PG, more base health, etc. etc. need I say more?
Just because you don't like me doesn't allow you to deny reality. A fully decked standard will out-perform Zitro's "Soma with all proto mods" which I still call bullsh*t on.

EDIT: Zitro made a comment while I was writing this, so I'll allow that his tank exists, but I stand by the rest.

I was hoping to get a response from Zitro, but ok, I'll bite.

Haven't met a standard that can beat your SIca? I haven't met any standards, period. That's because people like you refuse to admit standards are spec-worthy, which goes against everything you Imps are always talking about, which is a gap between better tiers of gear.
I don't use tanks. I'm not fitting anything on my standard tank because I don't have one. Before you go off saying "oh, well then you can't say sh*t about tanks if you don't use them" I'm going to say IT IS COMMON SENSE. I listed it before, I can list it again: more mod slots, more CPU, more PG, more base health, etc. etc. need I say more?
Just because you don't like me doesn't allow you to deny reality. A fully decked standard will out-perform Zitro's "Soma with all proto mods" which I still call bullsh*t on.

EDIT: Zitro made a comment while I was writing this, so I'll allow that his tank exists, but I stand by the rest.

Lots of bla bla bla

Let this be a response to both Caeli and Zitro, because you two basically said the same thing.

You are talking about the small amount of SP we currently have? That's weird, it seems like you wouldn't be able to skill up into ALL proto mods by now, either. OH WAIT! You just admitted you were lying about that, Zitro, so why should I take anything you say verbatim anymore?
Let me say it again, since you didn't get it before Caeli: You can't deny reality because you don't like me. Let me spell this out for you....
Since Zitro said armor tanks, I will use Somas and Madrugars as an example.

Soma
Base Shield=690
Base Armor=2230
210 CPU
2540 PG
2 high power slots
4 low power slots

Madrugar
Base Shield=900
Base Armor=2900
210 CPU
2690 PG
2 high power slots
5 low power slots

I can't expect you to figure this out on your own, so that's 880 more combined health points already. But if you had half a brain, even you would have figured out to skill up Field Mechanics to 5 by now.
So with that maxed out it is actually 1047 more combined points, 837 of that being armor. The best 60mm plates will only get you 780 armor, so the Madrugar starts the game 1-0. But what If I equip two 60mm plates you ask. well if you wanted to do that, you would be a complete moron seeing as how you would be so slow you wouldn't be able to get away from those AV grenade spammers that this whole thread was SUPPOSED to be about, same goes for 120mm plates and 180mm. (but maybe that's why you were complaining about them, because you were stupid enough to use multiple armor plates on your tank, but I digress)
The difference in PG is 150, but once again, if you had half a brain you would still know to max out Combat Engineering. So then the difference is 187 PG. This PG is incredibly useful for that 5th low slot, on which you can equip armor plates, resistance mods, armor hardeners, or anything that might give you a significant advantage over militia tanks. But I have proto and you have no more than advanced, you are saying now.
First, my Madrugar has a natural armor boost of more than the best 60mm plate, which I can still use because it only requires level 2 Armor Upgrades. I am currently doing better than you. You equip the best resistance plate, guess what, it only takes level 3 Armor Adaptation to get that, I can afford it on my Madrugar. So now you equip the best armor repper. The best repper only takes level 3 Armor Repair Systems, I can afford that as well. So your fourth slot is up for grabs. Depending on how you play, that is what you will pick. I would personally go for an armor hardener, so let's look at that, shall we? Oh look! That only takes level 1 Armor Adaptation. I can afford it. So we currently have the same mods and I have a natural boost on your armor and another slot to use. Who's winning? Madrugar goes 999-0
Ok, you are saying, but you forgot turrets. Alright, I can now afford to use a standard, and as Zitro mentioned earlier, he uses an advanced. You got me there buddy, look now it's 999-1.
High slots. Alright, you have the skills to get, what? A shield extender? That won't even make up for my natural 1047 boost over you, let alone put you ahead of me.
Small turrets? Couldn't give less of a damn. You can have that point, 999-2

So yeah, Caeli, you beat the standards you meet, but who's to say they bothered to actually plan out their skills like I did just now? They probably flew by the seat of their pants and skilled into whatever they wanted at the time. You can now officially call yourself the king of tank pubbies, enjoy your title.


But hey, this was a post about AV grenades, right? F*cking trolls.

P.S. Protoman, I'm glad you said that, because I almost forgot to mention, skill plays a factor in this game as well, so there's also a case to be made whether those standard tanks you beat had half a brain themselves, if so, then you can call yourself the king of mentally handicapped tank pubbies, Caeli.

Anything else to tell me, I will gladly tell you to shove it up your a*s, because you can't deny what I said just because you don't like me. Deja vu.

So you want to bo by the numbers

So lets so most people doing well on sp are going to be around 700k sp

to get your standard tank unlocked you have to have spent 380k sp
so 700k- 380k-200k you start out with equals 120k sp left to spend that leaves me short of hybrid turrets which means i have to run militant which only does 89 dps per shot compared to the 115 i can do with a standard scattered blaster. Also you have a extra 4 cpu and 100 pg that the militant blaster requires for fitting. If you choose to put your SP into here you can fit better small turrets but then for go on skills needed to tank better.

gunnlogi CPU 330 PG 1805 Shield HP 2000
sica CPU 310 PG 1805 Shield HP 2600

Oh man you saying I just saved myself 100 PG going

I am going to go with shield tanks because that is what I run but armor is very simular you have a couple options you can buff out your pg cpu skills which is usually needed to fit the better gear. Oh but if you spend your points here you do not have the better gear. You can spend SP into protoing out your shield extenders but oh ya you can not fit them with a militant blaster because it takes up to much PG and well you do not have the PG skills to needed to fit it.

So what does that mean your gunlogi is stuck fitting shield extenders that give 1710 each if you can fit 2 of them with how poor your skills are.
While I can fit extenders that give 2185 per extender plus a blaster that does 33 more damage per shot if you count skills in also

so on my sica I can hit 6370 my sica I use 1 10% mode on and get 6570
on the gunlogi saying a gunlogi gets lucky and can fit 2 1710 extenders he gets 6020 then he is uses 3 10% damage modes which only protect the base hull so he will gain a extra HP because they only give 780 HP for the base 2600 so he has a total of 6800 HP
So that means the gunlogi only has 230 more HP then my sica while I put out almost 28% more damge then he does and he only has 3.5% more health then me.

Looks like Caeli wins again. :)

A little handheld device doing 2k damage to armor tanks... Yep nothing wrong with that when you can just throw 3 in about 3 seconds

I'm not that good at hide and seek. So where is the balance between tanks and av? How about difference in gear? Can someone help me find it

So you want to go by the numbers

So lets so most people doing well on sp are going to be around 700k sp

To get your standard tank unlocked you have to have spent 380k sp
so 700k- 380k-200k you start out with equals 120k sp left to spend that leaves me short of hybrid turrets which means i have to run militant which only does 89 dps per shot compared to the 115 i can do with a standard scattered blaster. Also you have a extra 4 cpu and 100 pg that the militant blaster requires for fitting. If you choose to put your SP into here you can fit better small turrets but then for go on skills needed to tank better.

gunnlogi CPU 330 PG 1805 Shield HP 2000
sica CPU 310 PG 1805 Shield HP 2600

Oh man you saying I just saved myself 100 PG going into standard blasters and gain tons of damage.

I am going to go with shield tanks because that is what I run but armor is very simular you have a couple options you can buff out your pg cpu skills which is usually needed to fit the better gear. Oh but if you spend your points here you do not have the better gear. You can spend SP into protoing out your shield extenders but oh ya you can not fit them with a militant blaster because it takes up to much PG and well you do not have the PG skills to needed to fit it.

So what does that mean your gunlogi is stuck fitting shield extenders that give 1710 each if you can fit 2 of them with how poor your skills are.
While I can fit extenders that give 2185 per extender plus a blaster that does 33 more damage per shot if you count skills in also

so on my sica I can hit 6370 my sica I use 1 10% mode on and get 6570
on the gunlogi saying a gunlogi gets lucky and can fit 2 1710 extenders he gets 6020 then he is uses 3 10% damage modes which only protect the base hull so he will gain a extra HP because they only give 780 HP for the base 2600 so he has a total of 6800 HP
So that means the gunlogi only has 230 more HP then my sica while I put out almost 28% more damge then he does and he only has 3.5% more health then me.

Looks like Caeli wins again. :)

some more facts for you lvl 3 resist skill on armor and shields cost 217k sp alone not including lvl 1 and 2

lvl 3 shield extenders and armor extenders cost 87k sp alone meaning getting it proto out will cost the remains of your 120k sp
Booster mods are the same

getting standard large blasater turrets you need to spend 156k sp into small first meaning your 120k is not even enough to achieve first lvl of blasters let alone the 75k total needed to get into the standard lvl large scattered blaster.

Remember these results are going to be very simular for for soma/madrugar cases.

Wrong proto av OHK all kinds of LAVs.... HAVs don't feel like tanks they feel like slow moving death traps waiting to find an ambush

I didn't read any of what you said and decided to write an essay that has nothing to do with what you just said, ignoring all your facts.

and this is why you should just stop talking^ this guy just went to school on you....i hope you taking notes :/

Why do av grenades do more damage to armor than shields, should it not be a grenade that deal equal damage to all vehicles? CCP can you explain your hate towards armor?

I think this is supposed to be based on the type of damage the AV nades do, which I believe is kinetic which is the same for swarms. There is no love for armor right now, it takes more skill to use and there is nothing but draw backs for it.

Why do av grenades do more damage to armor than shields, should it not be a grenade that deal equal damage to all vehicles? CCP can you explain your hate towards armor?

That is why shields need drawbacks (which I am I high leaning towards) or my armor stuff gets more health

This is quickly becoming a "classic" thread, so I will try to put this down before it is buried under thousands of argument comments between the AV people and the HAV pilots.

You can't be asking for balance before anyone has gotten to standard tanks yet, the AV grenade is a standard piece of equipment, and the tanks in use currently are militia, so it is hardly a comparison. A standard locus grenade can OHK militia heavies, so you should be so lucky that three standard AV grenades will only severely damage your militia tank.

Yes alldin you mean the guy in the imperfects that is constantly surrounded by team mates and doesnt advance unless hes sure the coast is clear? That alldin? Cause im talking about applying a solo aspect. You know, without support and actually moving where youre needed as opposed to where the infantry is to support your tank.

They may not be for bogarding and taking control of a map. However i should have 0 issues taking out a guy with a swarm launcher 10 feet in front of me. Kind of the point of you know, the big ass gun, the armor, the mass, the repair modules, you know...the tank. Hell even when a tank hits next to its targets in present day the pressure waves generated from impact can severely damage the nervous system.

I can only imagine in the future those effects would get greater.

By the way shield tanks can retreat much faster then armor tanks to begin with. Shield tanks are hit and run. Basically just food if they try to brawl with an armor tank head on with no support.

As it stands it takes 1 infantry to take out 1 tank. They hide better, can climb into areas tanks cant get to, and can cut distances in half by climbing over hills. Tanks may take more then one shot to kill, but tanks, especially armor tanks, cannot exit an area quickly enough. To avoid the shots. Most swarm launchers get both shots off before i can even turn a corner in my Madruger.

Theres alot of solutions i could offer to fix this, but the primary one seems to be to make armor tanks have a natural damage resistance. Make it like 10% to all damage. Except of course to the tanks shields. The bonus a shield tank obtains could be 10% bonus to fire rate of turrets, or perhaps to turret cool down.

Armor tanks should have higher health and more resistance considering their primary role is to be in the thick of battle. Shield tanks should receive the turret bonus do to their aspects. Faster and they have **** quick shield regain. It will offset alot of the weaknesses put onto the tanks.

At the same time AV weaponry can maintain their pace. Militia weaponry is available for all to use, but its kind of messed up that i spend 500k isk on a madruger fitting and you destroy it for free, Atleast that easily.

Hmmm....Alldin hasn't posted at all about this. When I played against him he seemed to do just fine against all the forge gunners and militia swarmers. I don't quite get how you're having such a hard time? Maybe take lessons from him?

A Surya having 26,000+ Armor HP by activating all modules is hard to take down right?

Yes alldin you mean the guy in the imperfects that is constantly surrounded by team mates and doesnt advance unless hes sure the coast is clear? That alldin? Cause im talking about applying a solo aspect. You know, without support and actually moving where youre needed as opposed to where the infantry is to support your tank.

If youre going to be carried by your team mates your whole life whats the point of you investing any SP into an individual soldier? There is none, you might as all pull a russia and just flood enemy positions with militia fits and lose the moral war. Atleast you won the battle though right?

Point being if you rely too much on others you become soft. My tank should not be outmatched by some ass on foot never has been the case in history unless guerrilla tactics were used and that was if the person remained out of sight and unseen.

Eh, I've been spending most of my SP on core skills and HMG skills. I'd love to tangle with your tank once I get my Forge fit back up and running though

Not running tanks anymore, just militia fits.

I have never see you... But you can say hi to my tank ^_^

Say hi? I would rather say Bye. You're a terrible tank driver.