DUST Search - So where is the balance?

Jason Pearson wrote:

Logi Bro wrote:

Mr Zitro wrote:

Logi Bro wrote:

This is quickly becoming a "classic" thread, so I will try to put this down before it is buried under thousands of argument comments between the AV people and the HAV pilots.

You can't be asking for balance before anyone has gotten to standard tanks yet, the AV grenade is a standard piece of equipment, and the tanks in use currently are militia, so it is hardly a comparison. A standard locus grenade can OHK militia heavies, so you should be so lucky that three standard AV grenades will only severely damage your militia tank.

Standard av grenades do 1500 damage per nade. Swarms do 1200 per volley and forges do about the same... Yep a little stick doing that much damage is ridiculous IMO

1500 isn't **** to a standard tank with decent mods, but you are running militia, and like I said, you can't complain about balance without matching standard against standard. Go get a Gunnlogi/Madrugar with decent mods(basically no militia mods), get hit by three AV grenades, die, then come back to talk balance.
But I'm thinking you won't die.

Most shield tanks have about 6000-7000HP

so a single standard AV Grenade will deal 1/5 of it's total EHP.
So thats two of you launching standard AV Grenades at a Tank with a full crew, it'll kill it as he activates boosters and the 6th one lands. If theres 3 of you (so 3v3) he won't stand a chance.

AV and Tanks are not balanced.


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Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:32:00 - [1] - Quote The balance is any tank weapon can one-shot a infantry unit (ok, blasters don't one-shot, but they kill infantry fast, so you get my point) but AV units need to get multiple shots on tanks, which have incredibly bad maneuverability to make up for their power and armor.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:38:00 - [2] - Quote But your proto blaster tank can literally OHK militia and standard infantry it is so powerful. Your proto railgun can OHK infantry with blast-damage. And your proto missile launcher can OHK with blast-damage as well. But proto AV gear can't OHK any kind of tank, militia or otherwise, so I think you HAV drivers have the better side of things.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:39:00 - [3] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: The balance is any tank weapon can one-shot a infantry unit (ok, blasters don't one-shot, but they kill infantry fast, so you get my point) but AV units need to get multiple shots on tanks, which have incredibly bad maneuverability to make up for their power and armor. Yet one guy with av grenades beat a tank.... Hey balance where are you!? You could shoot the guy with the AV grenades...or just drive away from his range.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:46:00 - [4] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: But your proto blaster tank can literally OHK militia and standard infantry it is so powerful. Your proto railgun can OHK infantry with blast-damage. And your proto missile launcher can OHK with blast-damage as well. But proto AV gear can't OHK any kind of tank, militia or otherwise, so I think you HAV drivers have the better side of things. Wrong proto av OHK all kinds of LAVs.... HAVs don't feel like tanks they feel like slow moving death traps waiting to find an ambush Armor tanks may be slow, but that is why shield tanks have the advantage currently. Though they are slow to accelerate once they get to full speed they have more speed than a scout loaded with as many proto kinetic mods as he can hold.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:57:00 - [5] - Quote This is quickly becoming a "classic" thread, so I will try to put this down before it is buried under thousands of argument comments between the AV people and the HAV pilots. You can't be asking for balance before anyone has gotten to standard tanks yet, the AV grenade is a standard piece of equipment, and the tanks in use currently are militia, so it is hardly a comparison. A standard locus grenade can OHK militia heavies, so you should be so lucky that three standard AV grenades will only severely damage your militia tank.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.13 02:06:00 - [6] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: This is quickly becoming a "classic" thread, so I will try to put this down before it is buried under thousands of argument comments between the AV people and the HAV pilots. You can't be asking for balance before anyone has gotten to standard tanks yet, the AV grenade is a standard piece of equipment, and the tanks in use currently are militia, so it is hardly a comparison. A standard locus grenade can OHK militia heavies, so you should be so lucky that three standard AV grenades will only severely damage your militia tank. Standard av grenades do 1500 damage per nade. Swarms do 1200 per volley and forges do about the same... Yep a little stick doing that much damage is ridiculous IMO 1500 isn't **** to a standard tank with decent mods, but you are running militia, and like I said, you can't complain about balance without matching standard against standard. Go get a Gunnlogi/Madrugar with decent mods(basically no militia mods), get hit by three AV grenades, die, then come back to talk balance. But I'm thinking you won't die.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.13 02:36:00 - [7] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: This is quickly becoming a "classic" thread, so I will try to put this down before it is buried under thousands of argument comments between the AV people and the HAV pilots. You can't be asking for balance before anyone has gotten to standard tanks yet, the AV grenade is a standard piece of equipment, and the tanks in use currently are militia, so it is hardly a comparison. A standard locus grenade can OHK militia heavies, so you should be so lucky that three standard AV grenades will only severely damage your militia tank. Standard av grenades do 1500 damage per nade. Swarms do 1200 per volley and forges do about the same... Yep a little stick doing that much damage is ridiculous IMO 1500 isn't ** to a standard tank with decent mods, but you are running militia, and like I said, you can't complain about balance without matching standard against standard. Go get a Gunnlogi/Madrugar with decent mods(basically no militia mods), get hit by three AV grenades, die, then come back to talk balance. But I'm thinking you won't die. You are what I call stupid simple as that, my mods are proto you ****. My fit is the best a soma can get except for a better blaster so if you don't know anything stfu! I think it's amazing how many retards I can find on the forums who think they know more about the class I'm specializing in. And once again, you refuse to read any of my post and focus on any point you think might be insulting to you, because obviously you are the center of the subject of all of my posts. /sarcasm Get a GUNLOGI OR A MADRUGAR AND DIE FROM THREE STANDARD AV GRENADES then you can rage at me for being an idiot. You, sir, are an idiot for thinking a militia tank should be powerful, aren't you the guy that was advocating the whole "proto needs a significant advantage over militia gear."? Well it does for HAVs. And proto mods on a militia tank? Really? I don't need to specialize in tanks to know that's a bad idea. I wouldn't put a proto repair tool on my skinweave logistics fit, so you seriously need to rethink your stratagem before complaining about dying.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.13 02:43:00 - [8] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: This is quickly becoming a "classic" thread, so I will try to put this down before it is buried under thousands of argument comments between the AV people and the HAV pilots. You can't be asking for balance before anyone has gotten to standard tanks yet, the AV grenade is a standard piece of equipment, and the tanks in use currently are militia, so it is hardly a comparison. A standard locus grenade can OHK militia heavies, so you should be so lucky that three standard AV grenades will only severely damage your militia tank. Standard av grenades do 1500 damage per nade. Swarms do 1200 per volley and forges do about the same... Yep a little stick doing that much damage is ridiculous IMO 1500 isn't **** to a standard tank with decent mods, but you are running militia, and like I said, you can't complain about balance without matching standard against standard. Go get a Gunnlogi/Madrugar with decent mods(basically no militia mods), get hit by three AV grenades, die, then come back to talk balance. But I'm thinking you won't die. Most shield tanks have about 6000-7000HP so a single standard AV Grenade will deal 1/5 of it's total EHP. So thats two of you launching standard AV Grenades at a Tank with a full crew, it'll kill it as he activates boosters and the 6th one lands. If theres 3 of you (so 3v3) he won't stand a chance. AV and Tanks are not balanced. You forget resistance mods and boosters. One 10% resistance mod takes 150 damage out of each of those blows, and that's the minimum, because anything above militia grade will have more than that. And if you activate your booster the second you start taking damage, you will grant yourself more than enough time to get out the AV guy's throwing range. Plus, in your scenario you have two AV guys working in perfect unison, that won't ever happen. (ok, I understand you should never say never, so let me say that will ALMOST never happen, but if the enemy is working together they SHOULD be able to kill you, because if you are out of range of the team-mates that could kill the AV guys, you obviously aren't working with your team.)
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.13 03:16:00 - [9] - Quote Vlor Deckard wrote: Post your fit. ^Please^
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.13 04:20:00 - [10] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: And once again, you refuse to read any of my post and focus on any point you think might be insulting to you, because obviously you are the center of the subject of all of my posts. /sarcasm Get a GUNLOGI OR A MADRUGAR AND DIE FROM THREE STANDARD AV GRENADES then you can rage at me for being an idiot. You, sir, are an idiot for thinking a militia tank should be powerful, aren't you the guy that was advocating the whole "proto needs a significant advantage over militia gear."? Well it does for HAVs. And proto mods on a militia tank? Really? I don't need to specialize in tanks to know that's a bad idea. I wouldn't put a proto repair tool on my skinweave logistics fit, so you seriously need to rethink your stratagem before complaining about dying. You ignored my comment, so I reposted, and I thought the whole "You ignored most of the comment and focused on what you thought was insulting to you" part fit in well after what you just said to Barbar.

Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.13 04:40:00 - [11] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: ]My soma is a better fit than racing towards a standard tank -.- unless you know how to spec a vehicle please stfu and take some lessons Alright, let me make this clear: You aren't a genius. I don't need a college degree to learn how to "spec into a vehicle." It isn't hard, so stop pretending like no one but you has the L33t 5KILLS to do it. Also, racing to a standard tank? You don't think that's important? You get more mod slots, more PG, more CPU, more base health, more everything that could be useful to you for upgrading from militia to standard. Fitting ALL proto mods on a militia tank? Bullsh*t. You don't get nearly enough CPU/PG to do that, even with Circuitry and Combat Engineering maxed out. Not unless you used up all your low slots with PG extenders and CPU boosters, but that would be incredibly stupid, since a standard tank would have enough CPU and PG, plus everything else I listed before. "My soma is a better fit than...a standard tank" Your ignorance is confirmed.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.13 04:55:00 - [12] - Quote GoD-NoVa wrote: im number 100 Have a like.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.13 06:00:00 - [13] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Alright, let me make this clear: You aren't a genius. I don't need a college degree to learn how to "spec into a vehicle." It isn't hard, so stop pretending like no one but you has the L33t 5KILLS to do it. Also, racing to a standard tank? You don't think that's important? You get more mod slots, more PG, more CPU, more base health, more everything that could be useful to you for upgrading from militia to standard. Fitting ALL proto mods on a militia tank? Bullsh*t. You don't get nearly enough CPU/PG to do that, even with Circuitry and Combat Engineering maxed out. Not unless you used up all your low slots with PG extenders and CPU boosters, but that would be incredibly stupid, since a standard tank would have enough CPU and PG, plus everything else I listed before. "My soma is a better fit than...a standard tank" Your ignorance is confirmed. Zitro, you know I'm gonna repost my stuff if you refuse to answer it, right? Answer, or if you ignore it, you are admitting I am right.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.13 06:16:00 - [14] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: No sir you logi bro have confirmed your ignorance. Currently you are a idiot if you have skilled into a standard tank already. I have not met a standard tank yet that can 1v1 my sica. Why because you are probably **** fitting your tank either by not haveing enough cp or pg or by not having the access to the better modules to actually make your tank perform better. @Kingbabar currently I do not think there is a tanker out there I could not pop 1v1 even in 2 weeks once tankers get better gear I could probably pop them with militant gear 1v1 with out any trouble. head glitch and lock through objects with lolswarms laugh at the tanker run. away every time. I was hoping to get a response from Zitro, but ok, I'll bite. Haven't met a standard that can beat your SIca? I haven't met any standards, period. That's because people like you refuse to admit standards are spec-worthy, which goes against everything you Imps are always talking about, which is a gap between better tiers of gear. I don't use tanks. I'm not fitting anything on my standard tank because I don't have one. Before you go off saying "oh, well then you can't say sht about tanks if you don't use them" I'm going to say IT IS COMMON SENSE. I listed it before, I can list it again: more mod slots, more CPU, more PG, more base health, etc. etc. need I say more? Just because you don't like me doesn't allow you to deny reality. A fully decked standard will out-perform Zitro's "Soma with all proto mods" which I still call bullsht on. EDIT: Zitro made a comment while I was writing this, so I'll allow that his tank exists, but I stand by the rest.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.13 07:22:00 - [15] - Quote Let this be a response to both Caeli and Zitro, because you two basically said the same thing. You are talking about the small amount of SP we currently have? That's weird, it seems like you wouldn't be able to skill up into ALL proto mods by now, either. OH WAIT! You just admitted you were lying about that, Zitro, so why should I take anything you say verbatim anymore? Let me say it again, since you didn't get it before Caeli: You can't deny reality because you don't like me. Let me spell this out for you.... Since Zitro said armor tanks, I will use Somas and Madrugars as an example. Soma Base Shield=690 Base Armor=2230 210 CPU 2540 PG 2 high power slots 4 low power slots Madrugar Base Shield=900 Base Armor=2900 210 CPU 2690 PG 2 high power slots 5 low power slots I can't expect you to figure this out on your own, so that's 880 more combined health points already. But if you had half a brain, even you would have figured out to skill up Field Mechanics to 5 by now. So with that maxed out it is actually 1047 more combined points, 837 of that being armor. The best 60mm plates will only get you 780 armor, so the Madrugar starts the game 1-0. But what If I equip two 60mm plates you ask. well if you wanted to do that, you would be a complete moron seeing as how you would be so slow you wouldn't be able to get away from those AV grenade spammers that this whole thread was SUPPOSED to be about, same goes for 120mm plates and 180mm. (but maybe that's why you were complaining about them, because you were stupid enough to use multiple armor plates on your tank, but I digress) The difference in PG is 150, but once again, if you had half a brain you would still know to max out Combat Engineering. So then the difference is 187 PG. This PG is incredibly useful for that 5th low slot, on which you can equip armor plates, resistance mods, armor hardeners, or anything that might give you a significant advantage over militia tanks. But I have proto and you have no more than advanced, you are saying now. First, my Madrugar has a natural armor boost of more than the best 60mm plate, which I can still use because it only requires level 2 Armor Upgrades. I am currently doing better than you. You equip the best resistance plate, guess what, it only takes level 3 Armor Adaptation to get that, I can afford it on my Madrugar. So now you equip the best armor repper. The best repper only takes level 3 Armor Repair Systems, I can afford that as well. So your fourth slot is up for grabs. Depending on how you play, that is what you will pick. I would personally go for an armor hardener, so let's look at that, shall we? Oh look! That only takes level 1 Armor Adaptation. I can afford it. So we currently have the same mods and I have a natural boost on your armor and another slot to use. Who's winning? Madrugar goes 999-0 Ok, you are saying, but you forgot turrets. Alright, I can now afford to use a standard, and as Zitro mentioned earlier, he uses an advanced. You got me there buddy, look now it's 999-1. High slots. Alright, you have the skills to get, what? A shield extender? That won't even make up for my natural 1047 boost over you, let alone put you ahead of me. Small turrets? Couldn't give less of a damn. You can have that point, 999-2 So yeah, Caeli, you beat the standards you meet, but who's to say they bothered to actually plan out their skills like I did just now? They probably flew by the seat of their pants and skilled into whatever they wanted at the time. You can now officially call yourself the king of tank pubbies, enjoy your title. But hey, this was a post about AV grenades, right? Fcking trolls. P.S. Protoman, I'm glad you said that, because I almost forgot to mention, skill plays a factor in this game as well, so there's also a case to be made whether those standard tanks you beat had half a brain themselves, if so, then you can call yourself the king of mentally handicapped tank pubbies, Caeli. Anything else to tell me, I will gladly tell you to shove it up your as, because you can't deny what I said just because you don't like me. Deja vu.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.13 18:25:00 - [16] - Quote Caeli SineDeo wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Lots of bla bla bla I didn't read any of what you said and decided to write an essay that has nothing to do with what you just said, ignoring all your facts. You could have fooled me.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.13 18:42:00 - [17] - Quote Someone can't read.