Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
742
   |
Posted - 2013.01.13 01:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Belzeebub Santana wrote:Question: has anyone ran a tank with logis running behind it repairing it, a la BF3?
Is it effective?
Doesn't work, perhaps 2 or 3 people with Rep Tools but as it currently is, they're far too weak to be meaningful in anyway.
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:You want an AV grenade nerf???? The person with an AV grenade has to try and escape infantry and be out of the view of a tank with 2 gunners. Then he has to throw grenades and be standing in a nanohive to reload and throw some more.
Most tanks drive off after the 2nd grenade and you can't chase it into the spawn. Plus, the tank kills you more times than not.
Wait...is this a troll or a serious thread asking for av grenades to be nerfed??
I'm sorry, the one part in the post you've made it "back in to the spawn".
Want to know why it's so easy for us to get back to our redline? Why the **** should we leave it when we get instagibbed by a single infantry player running AV nades, or a Forge Gunner in a high position (btw, kept two tanks in their base on the 5 point map earlier today, everytime they tried to leave they'd get hit and run hard. Militia Forge takes about half their shields with dam mods ^_^ Pce Tanks.) |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 02:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:Mr Zitro wrote:Logi Bro wrote:This is quickly becoming a "classic" thread, so I will try to put this down before it is buried under thousands of argument comments between the AV people and the HAV pilots.
You can't be asking for balance before anyone has gotten to standard tanks yet, the AV grenade is a standard piece of equipment, and the tanks in use currently are militia, so it is hardly a comparison. A standard locus grenade can OHK militia heavies, so you should be so lucky that three standard AV grenades will only severely damage your militia tank. Standard av grenades do 1500 damage per nade. Swarms do 1200 per volley and forges do about the same... Yep a little stick doing that much damage is ridiculous IMO 1500 isn't **** to a standard tank with decent mods, but you are running militia, and like I said, you can't complain about balance without matching standard against standard. Go get a Gunnlogi/Madrugar with decent mods(basically no militia mods), get hit by three AV grenades, die, then come back to talk balance. But I'm thinking you won't die.
Most shield tanks have about 6000-7000HP
so a single standard AV Grenade will deal 1/5 of it's total EHP.
So thats two of you launching standard AV Grenades at a Tank with a full crew, it'll kill it as he activates boosters and the 6th one lands. If theres 3 of you (so 3v3) he won't stand a chance.
AV and Tanks are not balanced. |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 03:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Logi Bro wrote:
1500 isn't **** to a standard tank with decent mods, but you are running militia, and like I said, you can't complain about balance without matching standard against standard. Go get a Gunnlogi/Madrugar with decent mods(basically no militia mods), get hit by three AV grenades, die, then come back to talk balance.
But I'm thinking you won't die.
Most shield tanks have about 6000-7000HP so a single standard AV Grenade will deal 1/5 of it's total EHP. So thats two of you launching standard AV Grenades at a Tank with a full crew, it'll kill it as he activates boosters and the 6th one lands. If theres 3 of you (so 3v3) he won't stand a chance. AV and Tanks are not balanced. You forget resistance mods and boosters. One 10% resistance mod takes 150 damage out of each of those blows, and that's the minimum, because anything above militia grade will have more than that. And if you activate your booster the second you start taking damage, you will grant yourself more than enough time to get out the AV guy's throwing range. Plus, in your scenario you have two AV guys working in perfect unison, that won't ever happen. (ok, I understand you should never say never, so let me say that will ALMOST never happen, but if the enemy is working together they SHOULD be able to kill you, because if you are out of range of the team-mates that could kill the AV guys, you obviously aren't working with your team.)
When you look at the total eHP of a tank, that 10% isn't worth it and is better spent going into a hardener. Anything above Militia is going to have extra damage so you're still doing more even with 10% protection. As someone who has tried using passive boosters they're absolutely worthless. I've seen a 4 man crew running AV in unison wrecking tanks, should try joining a competent Corp and seeing how they fight.
I usually run a tank with a Squad but I have a major issue with Swarm/Forge Snipers (whos range is ludicrous) and people who sit above me just lobbing grenades. Now the scenario I've given you has happened with AV grenades, I've been with my team but they cannot run all the way around the map, climb the ladder and mash them in time to save my 600k Tank.
I'll say I'll give them props for ambushing me in that way but once you're in that position, you cannot escape, there is no way.
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
Most shield tanks have about 6000-7000HP
so a single standard AV Grenade will deal 1/5 of it's total EHP.
So thats two of you launching standard AV Grenades at a Tank with a full crew, it'll kill it as he activates boosters and the 6th one lands. If theres 3 of you (so 3v3) he won't stand a chance.
AV and Tanks are not balanced.
I'm not sure...how would you "balance" it? You know how hard it is to try and get close enough to a tank to launch AVs at it? You may have to gun down 2 or 3 guys just chasing the tank. They don't stick around once they lose a little shields. So, if you throw one grenade on it, they retreat. You have to really flank those tanks. And some of those guys really make it hard. You may die 3x before you throw your first grenade. Tanks need counters...and just because grenades are effective, it doesn't mean that they need to be nerfed. And if 3 people attack a vehicle, it deserves to be blown up. Otherwise, infantry will never stand a chance. In BF3, you can solo a tank and finish it with C4. It isn't so easy in Dust....and the tanks can kill you just as fast as any tank in any shooter.
It's a hard situation to balance really but AV was buffed when we had OP Missiles on Tanks, now that the missiles are gone we're still left with massive range. I truely don't mind AV Grenades as they're effective at ambushing and really not good at much else. One thing I'll tell you is don't bring BF3 or any other game into a balance thread. In BF3 you don't lose anything, in DUST you lose 600k+ ISK when you die to a couple of guys running free swarms and AV Grenades that are cheap.
Want to know how I'd balance tanks?
Make them "Tanks" (IDGAF if real life tanks are weak as ****, this isn't RL). Give us less damage output and increase our survivability.
Might I also suggest instead of looking at just Tanks v AV, give some thought about Dropships and LAVs, Dropships especially (Getting one shotted by a Rail Gun or a Forge Gun isn't cool, kthx.) |