DUST Search - So where is the balance?

Mr Zitro wrote:

Goat of Dover wrote:

Mr Zitro wrote:

Logi Bro wrote:

But your proto blaster tank can literally OHK militia and standard infantry it is so powerful. Your proto railgun can OHK infantry with blast-damage. And your proto missile launcher can OHK with blast-damage as well.

But proto AV gear can't OHK any kind of tank, militia or otherwise, so I think you HAV drivers have the better side of things.

Wrong proto av OHK all kinds of LAVs.... HAVs don't feel like tanks they feel like slow moving death traps waiting to find an ambush

Zitro you should know that tanks need infantry support and without it one can easily solo a tank due to its lack of speed/maneuverability. This is the same in real life you rarely see tanks just going in somewhere and get the job done on their own. Not to say it can't but, with decent comms and a little situational awareness a man can easily solo a solo driver with ease. This is all but the same universally through out the game world and reality.

You should really know that ambush spawns make it possible for people to spawn right behind a tank and av grenade away but you are so right, I want tanks to solo and win a game... Please tell me more

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Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:29:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not that good at hide and seek. So where is the balance between tanks and av? How about difference in gear? Can someone help me find it
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:32:00 - [2] - Quote The balance is any tank weapon can one-shot a infantry unit (ok, blasters don't one-shot, but they kill infantry fast, so you get my point) but AV units need to get multiple shots on tanks, which have incredibly bad maneuverability to make up for their power and armor.
EternalRMG ZionTCD Legacy Rising 234	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:34:00 - [3] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: The balance is any tank weapon can one-shot a infantry unit (ok, blasters don't one-shot, but they kill infantry fast, so you get my point) but AV units need to get multiple shots on tanks, which have incredibly bad maneuverability to make up for their power and armor. but you can take down one proto tank with normal avs and militia swarms
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:36:00 - [4] - Quote EternalRMG wrote: Logi Bro wrote: The balance is any tank weapon can one-shot a infantry unit (ok, blasters don't one-shot, but they kill infantry fast, so you get my point) but AV units need to get multiple shots on tanks, which have incredibly bad maneuverability to make up for their power and armor. but you can take down one proto tank with normal avs and militia swarms And proto av weapons can rip through a tank's armor/ sheilas as if it were wet tissue paper.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:37:00 - [5] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: The balance is any tank weapon can one-shot a infantry unit (ok, blasters don't one-shot, but they kill infantry fast, so you get my point) but AV units need to get multiple shots on tanks, which have incredibly bad maneuverability to make up for their power and armor. Yet one guy with av grenades beat a tank.... Hey balance where are you!?
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:38:00 - [6] - Quote But your proto blaster tank can literally OHK militia and standard infantry it is so powerful. Your proto railgun can OHK infantry with blast-damage. And your proto missile launcher can OHK with blast-damage as well. But proto AV gear can't OHK any kind of tank, militia or otherwise, so I think you HAV drivers have the better side of things.
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:39:00 - [7] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: The balance is any tank weapon can one-shot a infantry unit (ok, blasters don't one-shot, but they kill infantry fast, so you get my point) but AV units need to get multiple shots on tanks, which have incredibly bad maneuverability to make up for their power and armor. Yet one guy with av grenades beat a tank.... Hey balance where are you!? You could shoot the guy with the AV grenades...or just drive away from his range.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:41:00 - [8] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: But your proto blaster tank can literally OHK militia and standard infantry it is so powerful. Your proto railgun can OHK infantry with blast-damage. And your proto missile launcher can OHK with blast-damage as well. But proto AV gear can't OHK any kind of tank, militia or otherwise, so I think you HAV drivers have the better side of things. Wrong proto av OHK all kinds of LAVs.... HAVs don't feel like tanks they feel like slow moving death traps waiting to find an ambush
SILENTSAM 69 Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 421	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:42:00 - [9] - Quote AV grenades are not as powerful as people are claiming. It takes quite a few from a Nanohive or Supply Depot to take down a good tank. Even a Militia tank takes more than one troop can hold. Also there is good balance with AV grenades in distance thrown and DMG done when choosing grenades. A smart group uses Flux grenades first and then AV grenades against a tank. This is especially important with a good tank. Right now though we do not have much more than Militia vehicles and people with low grade equipment. Of course grenades seem more powerful again.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:43:00 - [10] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: The balance is any tank weapon can one-shot a infantry unit (ok, blasters don't one-shot, but they kill infantry fast, so you get my point) but AV units need to get multiple shots on tanks, which have incredibly bad maneuverability to make up for their power and armor. Yet one guy with av grenades beat a tank.... Hey balance where are you!? You could shoot the guy with the AV grenades...or just drive away from his range. Before he throws 3 av grenades and your tank goes boom??? 8/10 times the tank loses

Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:45:00 - [11] - Quote SILENTSAM 69 wrote: AV grenades are not as powerful as people are claiming. It takes quite a few from a Nanohive or Supply Depot to take down a good tank. Even a Militia tank takes more than one troop can hold. Also there is good balance with AV grenades in distance thrown and DMG done when choosing grenades. A smart group uses Flux grenades first and then AV grenades against a tank. This is especially important with a good tank. Right now though we do not have much more than Militia vehicles and people with low grade equipment. Of course grenades seem more powerful again. A little handheld device doing 2k damage to armor tanks... Yep nothing wrong with that when you can just throw 3 in about 3 seconds
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:46:00 - [12] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: But your proto blaster tank can literally OHK militia and standard infantry it is so powerful. Your proto railgun can OHK infantry with blast-damage. And your proto missile launcher can OHK with blast-damage as well. But proto AV gear can't OHK any kind of tank, militia or otherwise, so I think you HAV drivers have the better side of things. Wrong proto av OHK all kinds of LAVs.... HAVs don't feel like tanks they feel like slow moving death traps waiting to find an ambush Armor tanks may be slow, but that is why shield tanks have the advantage currently. Though they are slow to accelerate once they get to full speed they have more speed than a scout loaded with as many proto kinetic mods as he can hold.
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 161	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:47:00 - [13] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: But your proto blaster tank can literally OHK militia and standard infantry it is so powerful. Your proto railgun can OHK infantry with blast-damage. And your proto missile launcher can OHK with blast-damage as well. But proto AV gear can't OHK any kind of tank, militia or otherwise, so I think you HAV drivers have the better side of things. Wrong proto av OHK all kinds of LAVs.... HAVs don't feel like tanks they feel like slow moving death traps waiting to find an ambush Zitro you should know that tanks need infantry support and without it one can easily solo a tank due to its lack of speed/maneuverability. This is the same in real life you rarely see tanks just going in somewhere and get the job done on their own. Not to say it can't but, with decent comms and a little situational awareness a man can easily solo a solo driver with ease. This is all but the same universally through out the game world and reality.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:48:00 - [14] - Quote There is a special place in hell for tank drivers
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:48:00 - [15] - Quote What I think is that, to be fair for everyone (and improve it greatly for everyone), all vehicle and AV starter fits should be removed. Keep militia, but there are both too many starter fit LAVs and too many starter fit AVers. If something takes down my methana, at least let it be a standard swarm, instead of a militia BPO swarm.
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 161	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:50:00 - [16] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: The balance is any tank weapon can one-shot a infantry unit (ok, blasters don't one-shot, but they kill infantry fast, so you get my point) but AV units need to get multiple shots on tanks, which have incredibly bad maneuverability to make up for their power and armor. Yet one guy with av grenades beat a tank.... Hey balance where are you!? You could shoot the guy with the AV grenades...or just drive away from his range. Before he throws 3 av grenades and your tank goes boom??? 8/10 times the tank loses I don't know how it is now since I can't use AVs yet but, before the reset I remember many times I would get a direct hit on a tank with AV nades and not even scratch their shields. This happened to me many of times I just chalked it up to good module load outs.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:51:00 - [17] - Quote There's generally a one to many relationship between tanks and AV due to the many types of AV and the size of a tank, so AV generally doesn't have to solo the tank. Once it's been on the field for a bit thre is likely to be at least two SL's hunting it and someone else carrying Flux or AV grenades.
arimal lavaren L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 186	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:51:00 - [18] - Quote Just so I'm clear Mr zitro who only a short while told us all to upgrade our gear or quit QQ'ing when we're fairly Rofl stomped is complaining that AV grenades popped his militia tank? Maybe try not calling in the tank on the smallest ambush map we have, I've seen you do it. Because the general answer to your problem is if the tank had proper infantry support those nades would have never gotten close enough.
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 161	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:52:00 - [19] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: What I think is that, to be fair for everyone (and improve it greatly for everyone), all vehicle and AV starter fits should be removed. Keep militia, but there are both too many starter fit LAVs and too many starter fit AVers. If something takes down my methana, at least let it be a standard swarm, instead of a militia BPO swarm. Yes +1. This is one of the best ideas that I have seen yet set around vehic/AV balance.
Kira Lannister Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 711	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:52:00 - [20] - Quote He is missing the God Tanks from the E3 build.

Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:53:00 - [21] - Quote Kira Lannister wrote: He is missing the God Tanks from the E3 build. Wasn't that because they were testing vehicle vs vehicle combat?
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:56:00 - [22] - Quote Goat of Dover wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: But your proto blaster tank can literally OHK militia and standard infantry it is so powerful. Your proto railgun can OHK infantry with blast-damage. And your proto missile launcher can OHK with blast-damage as well. But proto AV gear can't OHK any kind of tank, militia or otherwise, so I think you HAV drivers have the better side of things. Wrong proto av OHK all kinds of LAVs.... HAVs don't feel like tanks they feel like slow moving death traps waiting to find an ambush Zitro you should know that tanks need infantry support and without it one can easily solo a tank due to its lack of speed/maneuverability. This is the same in real life you rarely see tanks just going in somewhere and get the job done on their own. Not to say it can't but, with decent comms and a little situational awareness a man can easily solo a solo driver with ease. This is all but the same universally through out the game world and reality. You should really know that ambush spawns make it possible for people to spawn right behind a tank and av grenade away but you are so right, I want tanks to solo and win a game... Please tell me more
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:56:00 - [23] - Quote I would like nanohives to stick to the roof of tanks, I have tried to throw a nanohive on a tank and spam AV nades on it but the hive just slides off
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:57:00 - [24] - Quote This is quickly becoming a "classic" thread, so I will try to put this down before it is buried under thousands of argument comments between the AV people and the HAV pilots. You can't be asking for balance before anyone has gotten to standard tanks yet, the AV grenade is a standard piece of equipment, and the tanks in use currently are militia, so it is hardly a comparison. A standard locus grenade can OHK militia heavies, so you should be so lucky that three standard AV grenades will only severely damage your militia tank.
Kira Lannister Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 711	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:57:00 - [25] - Quote To MCBob: I'm not sure if it was the E3 build, but it was near impossible to destroy them. Where you could call in one and solo a whole team. Where you didn't need to aim the rail gun. I got into them, and it was way too easy. They were broken.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.01.12 23:57:00 - [26] - Quote Goat of Dover wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: The balance is any tank weapon can one-shot a infantry unit (ok, blasters don't one-shot, but they kill infantry fast, so you get my point) but AV units need to get multiple shots on tanks, which have incredibly bad maneuverability to make up for their power and armor. Yet one guy with av grenades beat a tank.... Hey balance where are you!? You could shoot the guy with the AV grenades...or just drive away from his range. Before he throws 3 av grenades and your tank goes boom??? 8/10 times the tank loses I don't know how it is now since I can't use AVs yet but, before the reset I remember many times I would get a direct hit on a tank with AV nades and not even scratch their shields. This happened to me many of times I just chalked it up to good module load outs. Cause that was a maxed out tank
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2013.01.13 00:06:00 - [27] - Quote How about this, a mass driver that lobs AV grenades (which also have the magnetizing effect). To hell with HAV's, too many douchebags bringing those things in ambush battles (especially the new tiny map). Most of the time nobody ever switches to AV, so I end up having to do it. Then I might be stuck in that useless suit until the next time I die, which means a whole LOT less points for not taking out infantry like I normally would with the AR. I think every assault suit should have two grenade slots, one for regular nades and the other for AV nades, in case we need to use them. Tired of having to switch suits just for some kind of AV capability.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.01.13 00:11:00 - [28] - Quote arimal lavaren wrote: Just so I'm clear Mr zitro who only a short while told us all to upgrade our gear or quit QQ'ing when we're fairly Rofl stomped is complaining that AV grenades popped his militia tank? Maybe try not calling in the tank on the smallest ambush map we have, I've seen you do it. Because the general answer to your problem is if the tank had proper infantry support those nades would have never gotten close enough. It doesnt really bother me when i lose tank, it bothers me when i lose a tank to one kid and av grenades or militia swarms thats somehow does 4000 while i have a hardener on but how can I level stuff up when I don't have sp? Might want to think that through... Just saying
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 161	Posted - 2013.01.13 00:13:00 - [29] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Goat of Dover wrote: Mr Zitro wrote: Logi Bro wrote: But your proto blaster tank can literally OHK militia and standard infantry it is so powerful. Your proto railgun can OHK infantry with blast-damage. And your proto missile launcher can OHK with blast-damage as well. But proto AV gear can't OHK any kind of tank, militia or otherwise, so I think you HAV drivers have the better side of things. Wrong proto av OHK all kinds of LAVs.... HAVs don't feel like tanks they feel like slow moving death traps waiting to find an ambush Zitro you should know that tanks need infantry support and without it one can easily solo a tank due to its lack of speed/maneuverability. This is the same in real life you rarely see tanks just going in somewhere and get the job done on their own. Not to say it can't but, with decent comms and a little situational awareness a man can easily solo a solo driver with ease. This is all but the same universally through out the game world and reality. You should really know that ambush spawns make it possible for people to spawn right behind a tank and av grenade away but you are so right, I want tanks to solo and win a game... Please tell me more I was not attacking you and never stated that you wanted tanks to be a win button, was just stating that you have been here long enough to know that. Yet your comment was lacking the facts and I posted them. The problem right now is the lack of comms between tankers and their teams and, I mean the whole team not just your squad. If teams could come together in chat a least a little(yes I know some do not have UVTs but, I feel that they should get one. Just my opinion on a different topic) the out comes would be very different for these extremely pricey assets. Yes that is the problem with ambush but this is the situation you put yourself in when bringing a tank into one. On a spawn someone starts off with a serious ambush on you tank. I think the issue there is with spawning not with the balance. You personally take everything that responds to you as a attack, true a lot of people do given the way you responded to my post I can see why. I personally have no issue but, don't appreciate the way you came back and attacked me when there was not any offense on my side. I don't need any post from others saying that this is the way they are thanks.
Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2013.01.13 00:16:00 - [30] - Quote Okay AV works great against armor tanks mainly because they have a greater effect on armor and because of their low shielding they can be soloed quite easily. I use a militia shield tank with a few resistance mods and that helps my survivability quite a bit, but once my shield are gone 1-2 AV nades and im gone. Fact are the AV nade do indeed do a ton more damage than ppl realize especially since the only stat we know of is the splash damage which is 150ish but direct damage is way more, if they are on the level of flux nades then that is 1200 for a std nade(there are no militia AV nades), my understanding this was what nades did during the E3 build and even though the descriptions of some of the nades are lower clearly they are doing more damage then we know of. Now with regards swarm a single swarm strike takes out about a 1/4 of my shields on 2000+ shielding and thats with 2 resistance mods on my tank and the fact that swarms have a less than 100% efficiency on shields that is a lot of damage for a starter swarm. The reality is that tanks can be soloed quite easily but on the flip side if there is a good infantry around the tank it can do quite a bit of damage. Personally i find that simply moving around and not staying still is really the best way to keep the survivability of tanks. But ZItro tbf to others i'll say to you what you would probably say to me if i complained about not being able to solo a protobear(which isnt the case anymore) use tactics and dont try to be a god you will fail if you do. In the end there needs to be a better balance b/w tanks and infantry, should require a coordinated effort and though at times i feel like i was soloed it usually happens when i put my tank in the middle of a firefight and in bad spots where it can be nades and forged to death, but if i stay at the periphery of the battle and occasionally move at FULL SPEED through infantry firefight i can crush ppl and do what tanks are meant to which is provide infantry support. So to wrap it up i do agree with some of your points i dont think it is entirely out of balance. It may even be due to the fact that ppl unlock tanks but dont skill into them properly similarly to the way ppl dont skill into infantry properly. If you build it right then it should be pretty resilient i think ppl just unlock a tank, unlock a high level turret and say okay that should be enough, i think the more SP you put into field mech, shield boost, shield control and other things the better the tanks will become just not enough time or SP is put into those, who know maybe im just wrong about that, im going off of what i observe but i dont have all the variables to make an informed decision as to whether it is tanks are too weak or AV is too strong.



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