I'm not a FPS expert, so I really can't tell much of a difference.

but I see this a lot, as a reason why Dust sucks and it will fail and whatnot.

"The gunplay is terrible."

how so, exactly?

can someone explain in specific terms, whats wrong and what needs to be fixed?

anything in particular regarding this aspect that I should look for to make a comparison to other shooters?

I'm not a FPS expert, so I really can't tell much of a difference.

but I see this a lot, as a reason why Dust sucks and it will fail and whatnot.

"The gunplay is terrible."

how so, exactly?

can someone explain in specific terms, whats wrong and what needs to be fixed?

anything in particular regarding this aspect that I should look for to make a comparison to other shooters?

They can't run around like the chuckleheads they are and they aren't willing to adapt.

1. slow strafe speed that was nerfed AGAIN (no one asked for this CCP)
2. game still feels stiff and sluggish
3. frame rate drops really affect the gunplay

@iron wolf halo has a similar scope same as Resistance marksman. u dont necessarily need to see the gun, too many ppl accustom to other more military shooters. Anyway weapon customisation will solve this along with bringing back that caldari AR with the reflex sight

PS: side note.......CCP fix the tact AR and bring it back to single shot. kthnxbai

1. Acutally it was asked numerous times, mostly from HMG users that was having a scout dodge between bullets of an HMG going full bore on them instead of circle strafing around them.

2. File under control lag.

3. File under stability.

These are not gun play issues.

::grabs popcorn::

There was nothing wrong with the strafe speed. It was the garbage hit detection. People were crying nerf before we even got to see how the game ran with proper hit detection. The community will ruin the game in the end.

The problem with the gunplay at its core is the health to movement ratio. The movement we have now is designed for tactical shooters, while the amount of health we have is more for strafe and shoot games. We have 2 extremes that are designed for different type of shooters. In replication, gunfights would last forever and everyone would spin for days. Now the strafe speed is nerfed to hell but we still have insane amounts of health so gunfights still last forever. The gunfights have turned into turtle warfare in this past build. Quite tedious imho.

This isn't about tactical shooters vs arcade shooters. The problem on our hands is much more complicated then that. Health and movement speed need to be able to match each other in a smooth way. Either health needs to be lowered to match the incredibly slow strafe speeds, or they need to bring back strafing to match the insane amounts of health so that skill will be a factor in in this game again.

people just dont understand, we don't like the scopes or aim down sights in this game. They look like halo when most people prefer battlefield and cod scopes. No one complains about planetside 2 gunplay because first, they got the scopes and the aim down sights right. PS2 gunplay suck. But they first impression looks good so no one says anything. BUT THE HALO TYPE scopes in Dust with the assualt rifles and sniper rifles, people don't like. Just go to a youtube video. People don't like them. Most people like borderland 2 guns. They sould learn from them....

::grabs popcorn::

like you are pro lol. hilmar is more pro than you you scrub

::grabs popcorn::

There was nothing wrong with the strafe speed. It was the garbage hit detection. People were crying nerf before we even got to see how the game ran with proper hit detection. The segment of the community that is constant crying for the game to be an arcadey run and gunner will ruin the game in the end.

I quite like the fact that we have enough health to make engagements drawn out, I think this way it encourages teamwork and a kill feels well earned.

1. slow strafe speed that was nerfed AGAIN (no one asked for this CCP)

I'm not a FPS expert, so I really can't tell much of a difference.

but I see this a lot, as a reason why Dust sucks and it will fail and whatnot.

"The gunplay is terrible."

how so, exactly?

can someone explain in specific terms, whats wrong and what needs to be fixed?

anything in particular regarding this aspect that I should look for to make a comparison to other shooters?

1. slow strafe speed that was nerfed AGAIN (no one asked for this CCP)
2. game still feels stiff and sluggish
3. frame rate drops really affect the gunplay

@iron wolf halo has a similar scope same as Resistance marksman. u dont necessarily need to see the gun, too many ppl accustom to other more military shooters. Anyway weapon customisation will solve this along with bringing back that caldari AR with the reflex sight

PS: side note.......CCP fix the tact AR and bring it back to single shot. kthnxbai

1. slow strafe speed that was nerfed AGAIN (no one asked for this CCP)
2. game still feels stiff and sluggish
3. frame rate drops really affect the gunplay

@iron wolf halo has a similar scope same as Resistance marksman. u dont necessarily need to see the gun, too many ppl accustom to other more military shooters. Anyway weapon customisation will solve this along with bringing back that caldari AR with the reflex sight

PS: side note.......CCP fix the tact AR and bring it back to single shot. kthnxbai

Leave the strafe as it is now, this is NOT HALO, or COD, or QUAKE, or friggin DOOM 3!!

My opinion? This build technically very little. Big +1 for CCP on that account. But..

Crimson mentioned we now have high health, low movement speed. Ignatious explained the reason movement sucks, because it's been flattened like the suit HP. It's probably to do with the mass they gave our clones :D Just needs some tweaking. The other major problem is the lack of recoil on even the militia AR. This means anyone with aiming abilities can just shoot your face at 50-100 yards, and put 20 rounds there before you can strafe/run. Similar story with reduced recoil sniper rifle.

It's reduced the game to a camping fest. People can farm spawns very easily currently, because they can just sit 50 yards away and own you with recoil free weapons. The damage the laser does compared to the AR is a good example of what a recoil free weapon should be in my opinion. Less skill so less damage. It's just too easy to Alpha strike currently. No-one has said Dust is a CoD clone until this build. It's the combination of these factors which has turned the gameplay around.

It's more the fact movement and recoil were better last build. If we had moved from E3 to Precursor, I think there would be far less complaints. But Precursor had so so much going for it's gunplay. It's the contrast between the 2.

1. Acutally it was asked numerous times, mostly from HMG users that was having a scout dodge between bullets of an HMG going full bore on them instead of circle strafing around them.

2. File under control lag.

3. File under stability.

These are not gun play issues.

As a non FPS aficionado the thing that I find the most frustrating about the gunplay is waiting for the game to catch up. It feels like there is a total lack of moment to moment gameplay.

Even though my reflexes are slow, the game is slower still. From turn and strafe speed, to throwing a grenade, to switching out weapons, to transitions between sprint and crouching, strafing and sprinting. This to me is a terrible thing on a multiplayer console shooting game because it almost totally negates the possibility of the player reacting to what is going on around them at the speed at which they can push buttons and move the sticks on the controller. So that hand eye coordination aspect of gaming, in this case gunplay, that has been a part of games since at least pong, or missile command, is noticeably absent from moment to moment "gunplay" where you are shooting at stuff and trying to avoid getting shot in return.

It feels more like I am playing a turn based strategy game, or RPG, or something like a Final Fantasy game, where you get your character into position, then the character or the player's fighting forces execute the attacks they are capable of with the gear they have equipped with minimal further input from the player.

This does make for great strategic gaming, but it is almost to the point where you can't even play as just a dude or lady that wants to jump into a game and shoot some stuff and blow some stuff up. It isn't that the game is better when playing as a team, it is almost not possible to play any other way. Your squad's position on the map relative to the enemy, the balance of gear between the members of a squad and a team, are now almost the entire focus of the game.

So I don't feel that like an individual merc, immersed in a war, where my own unique fighting skills actually matter on the battle field, moment to moment. That visceral and palpably physical connection to the game, where every second counts, where every nudge of the controller is meaningful, is not really there in this build.

Or, to put it succinctly, the game is too slow.

The good thing about this build is that so far it feels the most solid and balanced. And the strategic and abstract gameplay is very close to being balanced with the moment to moment physical gunplay. As others have said, if the speed of the game gets turned up a notch, across the board, without changing the speed of any one portion of the game relative to any other, that would be a huge improvement.

FPS players should take note, not everyone doesnt know what you're talking about when you say bad gunplay.

Right now the only real notable issue I have been told is the scoping on assautl rifle and sniper rifle. Sniper rifle scoping is acceptable to have camera mounts, even the swarm launcher. However with the assault rifle is clearly unacceptable to have such scope.

The rest has more to do with how they're going handel shot travel. Anything else I almost clueless about maybe the reload while running and reload matching animation/UI.

1. slow strafe speed that was nerfed AGAIN (no one asked for this CCP)
2. game still feels stiff and sluggish
3. frame rate drops really affect the gunplay

@iron wolf halo has a similar scope same as Resistance marksman. u dont necessarily need to see the gun, too many ppl accustom to other more military shooters. Anyway weapon customisation will solve this along with bringing back that caldari AR with the reflex sight

PS: side note.......CCP fix the tact AR and bring it back to single shot. kthnxbai

+100
Best post since Codex was released. I appreciate you saying you aren't an FPS aficionado too. Puts perspective on how huge the changes are.

STUFF

Lots is about WHO CAN CONSISTENTLY SHOOT AT THE UPPER TORSO

someone tell this guy to sit down and stfu:P then pass him a beer.

The gunplay in this is just down right boring it takes forever to get to the main battle and then you spend most of the time running (speed walking) around trying to find an enemy and when you do it doesn't matter who has more skill cause its just who ever shoots who first win the battle. Its just way to slow, you can even at at someone when your scoped because either it doesn't move or it moves way to much.

i think DUST needs to move in the direction of MAG yes MAG i know its a sin to say that word but thats the one things Zipper got right with that game. You were able to move fast enough so that you can get around the map. you were able to strafe but not to the point were people were unable to aim at you, and jumping wasn't a big deal because you just adjusted your aim a little bit and that was it, also once you jumped you stopped shooting so that really reduce the amount of jumping in a gun fight.

But in IMO people who say to "ADAPT" to this new build should actually follow their own advice because in a FPS you are able to strafe jump and dodge in order to kill the enemy. This isn't an FPS anymore its just stand and hope that the person your shooting at runs out of HP before you do.

O and no i don't play COD.

The gunplay in this is just down right boring it takes forever to get to the main battle and then you spend most of the time running (speed walking) around trying to find an enemy and when you do it doesn't matter who has more skill cause its just who ever shoots who first win the battle. Its just way to slow, you can even at at someone when your scoped because either it doesn't move or it moves way to much.

i think DUST needs to move in the direction of MAG yes MAG i know its a sin to say that word but thats the one things Zipper got right with that game. You were able to move fast enough so that you can get around the map. you were able to strafe but not to the point were people were unable to aim at you, and jumping wasn't a big deal because you just adjusted your aim a little bit and that was it, also once you jumped you stopped shooting so that really reduce the amount of jumping in a gun fight.

But in IMO people who say to "ADAPT" to this new build should actually follow their own advice because in a FPS you are able to strafe jump and dodge in order to kill the enemy. This isn't an FPS anymore its just stand and hope that the person your shooting at runs out of HP before you do.

O and no i don't play COD.

Mag had the perfect amount of health and movement speed. You could turn on a scrub that is camping and win the gunfight if he sucks. I hate CoD style camping games where who ever sees the other person first wins. That takes no skill. You outsmarted the other person by hiding in a corner but does that doesn't make you better.

the gunplay is one of the main reasons i played MAG it worked and made it fun. I put up with all the Zipper crap, the lag and the freezing because the gunplay made it fun.

Mag had the perfect amount of health and movement speed. You could turn on a scrub that is camping and win the gunfight if he sucks. I hate CoD style camping games where who ever sees the other person first wins. That takes no skill. You outsmarted the other person by hiding in a corner but does that doesn't make you better.

Not hating on you for the cod comment, I hate COD and campers in general, however camping is a valid military tactic no matter how much it irritates you. It's not outsmarting people to camp, but it is punishing people who aren't careful to avoid open areas and wandering around without looking around. In fact sniping is nothing but camp-move-camp-move-etc.

Also, this game isn't as balanced as MAG because MAG didn't have the same system of gear and skills that this game has. You cannot expect this game to balance the same unless they entirely remove the different tiers of dropsuits and just have one of each type that basically would equate to perks in COD. Heavy would be damage resistant and slow, scout would be fast and weak, logistics would be somewhat weak, somewhat fast, and allow you to carry more items, and assault would be somewhat damage resistant and somewhat slower.

Not hating on you for the cod comment, I hate COD and campers in general, however camping is a valid military tactic no matter how much it irritates you. It's not outsmarting people to camp, but it is punishing people who aren't careful to avoid open areas and wandering around without looking around. In fact sniping is nothing but camp-move-camp-move-etc.

Also, this game isn't as balanced as MAG because MAG didn't have the same system of gear and skills that this game has. You cannot expect this game to balance the same unless they entirely remove the different tiers of dropsuits and just have one of each type that basically would equate to perks in COD. Heavy would be damage resistant and slow, scout would be fast and weak, logistics would be somewhat weak, somewhat fast, and allow you to carry more items, and assault would be somewhat damage resistant and somewhat slower.

here's another spin on it. Keyboard or Dualshock for most of you?

I know its a legit tactic. I get drunk with my friends and play CoD occasionally. A certain amount of finesse is needed to play CoD. You have to somewhat camp and control the map/spawns. The people that just sit in one corner all game is pretty weak and actually makes for some really boring gameplay imho. There are ways to eliminate camping in fps though. Or at least limit its effectiveness.

I don't want a spin and strafe game. I do want enough movement and health to be able to turn on a camping scrub and kill them. I don't think that's asking to much. We have the health for it. We just need the movement speed to make this game more competitive.

I have no issue with what you are wanting from the game, but in order for the game to be playable in that way the health for each class of dropsuit and damage for each type of gun has to be set and not tiered. Maybe a few different types of the same weapon, the more expensive ones with the least recoil and spread, but still not separated by huge jumps like these. If it's gonna be balanced like MAG it needs damage/health balance as well as a balance between movement and health.

That said, I think movement needs to be fixed to be based on the type of weapon you have equipped. Strafe and movement speed is faster for lighter weapons and slower for heavier ones. For the movement control and feel, MAG is definitely a great spring board for this game to start at, but even the MAG control needed a few small tweaks. I doubt we can convince CCP to use MAG's movement specs however.

Also, going prone. I've mentioned it many times, but it needs to be said. Make it a slow animation and prevent firing during the animation so it's only used strategically, but prone is needed. I get popped all the time over the top of a rail I'm taking cover behind by people who are just high enough to see the top of my head. I can't stand and run away fast enough, and I can't go prone to avoid enemy fire, so I'm taken out while reloading behind cover. Is it really cover if you can't go prone to take full advantage of it?

-Damage drops off dramatically over short distances
-Analog stick sensitivity drops dramatically when you're sprinting which makes it difficult to aim and makes you feel sluggish.
-Maps are extremely open, featureless almost boring, terrain is poor for good gunplay.
-There can never really be true balance with the health mods/damage mods and such.
-Also general lag caused by poor framerate/unresponsive UI which may never be fixed it seems.

I think a small increase in overall speed would definitely benefit combat, removing the deadzone from controls and alliwing much more finite control over them. Don't increase the strafe speed to pre codex levels however some gameplay balancing can be worked in with stamina like allow a faster strafe that consumes stamina, crimbing those slopes could consume stamina etc that all fits to affect gameplay a bit more.

However the difference in damage between different weapons and between HP could be tweaked around a bit to be slight more balanced within the same tier.

So a bit faster movement speed overall but keep the comparison between everything. The same as now, finite gun control, tweak the damage to hp comparison(I want to be able to tell wether I'm going up against a HP buffed assault or a different module focus.

I don't want halo like combat so aviod that, decreases in accuracy when just spraying, decrease when excessively hipfiring, decrease when airborne.

.
4: I think both the Tactical AR and the Breach AR need a good looking at. Anyone else here played Mass effect 3? To me if you've played ME3, you know what the Mattock, and Saber are. Those are both single shot, semi auto high damage guns. Both have improved scoping over the regular AR's. As of right now, the Tactical AR is completely borked, it does more damage than the Breach yet currently fires as fast as the assault, which it shouldn't do. That needs to be fixed. My other thing is the tactical needs slightly more damage for being single shot, in exchange make the clip size smaller. Breach rifles could probably use a mildy faster ROF, or much less spread due to reduced firing rate.

Just gotta say, some people talking about camping.
There is a diffrence between camping and defending.

Camping= hiding in a bush, under a vehicle, behind a one way mirror type wall.

Defending= picking a spot, staying nearby covering bottlenecks and hitting people in your FOV

Also i dont like COD. First MW was good. Then just went downhill from there

fine line behind camping and defending, but ultimately your missing the part where defending is objective based and helps the team and actually sometimes shows good discipline, camping is done oneself and in secluded areas 1 way in, 1 way out areas.