DUST Search - Explain what EXACTLY is wrong with the "Gunplay" that makes Dust so te...

Crimson MoonV wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Mavado V Noriega wrote:

1. slow strafe speed that was nerfed AGAIN (no one asked for this CCP)
2. game still feels stiff and sluggish
3. frame rate drops really affect the gunplay

@iron wolf halo has a similar scope same as Resistance marksman. u dont necessarily need to see the gun, too many ppl accustom to other more military shooters. Anyway weapon customisation will solve this along with bringing back that caldari AR with the reflex sight

PS: side note.......CCP fix the tact AR and bring it back to single shot. kthnxbai

1. Acutally it was asked numerous times, mostly from HMG users that was having a scout dodge between bullets of an HMG going full bore on them instead of circle strafing around them.

2. File under control lag.

3. File under stability.

These are not gun play issues.

There was nothing wrong with the strafe speed. It was the garbage hit detection. People were crying nerf before we even got to see how the game ran with proper hit detection. The segment of the community that is constant crying for the game to be an arcadey run and gunner will ruin the game in the end.

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Madison Four 57	Posted - 2012.10.05 20:52:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not a FPS expert, so I really can't tell much of a difference. but I see this a lot, as a reason why Dust sucks and it will fail and whatnot. "The gunplay is terrible." how so, exactly? can someone explain in specific terms, whats wrong and what needs to be fixed? anything in particular regarding this aspect that I should look for to make a comparison to other shooters?
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1902	Posted - 2012.10.05 20:56:00 - [2] - Quote ::grabs popcorn::
Captain Longhorn Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.10.05 20:56:00 - [3] - Quote Madison Four wrote: I'm not a FPS expert, so I really can't tell much of a difference. but I see this a lot, as a reason why Dust sucks and it will fail and whatnot. "The gunplay is terrible." how so, exactly? can someone explain in specific terms, whats wrong and what needs to be fixed? anything in particular regarding this aspect that I should look for to make a comparison to other shooters? Yeah, I don't really see any problems... every game should have it's own style and I have had no problems with gunplay so far (except for the bastard hit detection which is now largely fixed), I've only really ever played games like cod and BF so they are all I can compare to, and the only real difference I notice is how slow it is to turn around lol I don't see why anything should change to suit people whining, either you adapt and enjoy the game or just don't play it.
ChargersGirlLuvsDP Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 49	Posted - 2012.10.05 20:56:00 - [4] - Quote Madison Four wrote: I'm not a FPS expert, so I really can't tell much of a difference. but I see this a lot, as a reason why Dust sucks and it will fail and whatnot. "The gunplay is terrible." how so, exactly? can someone explain in specific terms, whats wrong and what needs to be fixed? anything in particular regarding this aspect that I should look for to make a comparison to other shooters? They can't run around like the chuckleheads they are and they aren't willing to adapt.
Captain Longhorn Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 17	Posted - 2012.10.05 20:59:00 - [5] - Quote ChargersGirlLuvsDP wrote: Madison Four wrote: I'm not a FPS expert, so I really can't tell much of a difference. but I see this a lot, as a reason why Dust sucks and it will fail and whatnot. "The gunplay is terrible." how so, exactly? can someone explain in specific terms, whats wrong and what needs to be fixed? anything in particular regarding this aspect that I should look for to make a comparison to other shooters? They can't run around like the chuckleheads they are and they aren't willing to adapt. Lol, chucklehead.
Madison Four 57	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:01:00 - [6] - Quote I'm not saying that there are no problems with the gunplay. I am saying that I am not experienced enough with Shooters to really spot them. I'm more of a MMORPG guy. so I'm asking for some opinions on it.
DON RODIE II Deep Space Republic 168	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:04:00 - [7] - Quote people just dont understand, we don't like the scopes or aim down sights in this game. They look like halo when most people prefer battlefield and cod scopes. No one complains about planetside 2 gunplay because first, they got the scopes and the aim down sights right. PS2 gunplay suck. But they first impression looks good so no one says anything. BUT THE HALO TYPE scopes in Dust with the assualt rifles and sniper rifles, people don't like. Just go to a youtube video. People don't like them. Most people like borderland 2 guns. They sould learn from them....
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:05:00 - [8] - Quote FPS players should take note, not everyone doesnt know what you're talking about when you say bad gunplay. Right now the only real notable issue I have been told is the scoping on assautl rifle and sniper rifle. Sniper rifle scoping is acceptable to have camera mounts, even the swarm launcher. However with the assault rifle is clearly unacceptable to have such scope. The rest has more to do with how they're going handel shot travel. Anything else I almost clueless about maybe the reload while running and reload matching animation/UI.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:10:00 - [9] - Quote 1. slow strafe speed that was nerfed AGAIN (no one asked for this CCP) 2. game still feels stiff and sluggish 3. frame rate drops really affect the gunplay @iron wolf halo has a similar scope same as Resistance marksman. u dont necessarily need to see the gun, too many ppl accustom to other more military shooters. Anyway weapon customisation will solve this along with bringing back that caldari AR with the reflex sight PS: side note.......CCP fix the tact AR and bring it back to single shot. kthnxbai
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:14:00 - [10] - Quote Try not to be offended by hyperbole, once anything comes along to burst the bubble and interrupt the suspension of disbelief all other flaws become magnified to an unrecognizable level and many are reduced to single word descriptions. Right now it's all on strafing and until it's addressed it's hard to get a proper feel on what else is wrong. Actually, the strafing on heavies is about right where it should be maybe with a bit of a momentum simulating penalty on acceleration for directional changes would add to the feel, but it's the strafing on all other suits that isn't scaling as it should, IMO. For me, the controls feel stiff and is less fun than it was.

Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:19:00 - [11] - Quote Some people want combat that plays like Halo, where people are rapidly strafing/jumping around each other and so on. Dust plays less like that this build, and therefore some people are upset. Meanwhile, other people are happy. There is nothing wrong with it. It's just a matter of preference. Some people like more arcade-style games, others prefer more tactical games. Dust is somewhere in the middle. Ultimately, you can't please everyone, and neither style is objectively better than the other.
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:25:00 - [12] - Quote The problem with the gunplay at its core is the health to movement ratio. The movement we have now is designed for tactical shooters, while the amount of health we have is more for strafe and shoot games. We have 2 extremes that are designed for different type of shooters. In replication, gunfights would last forever and everyone would spin for days. Now the strafe speed is nerfed to hell but we still have insane amounts of health so gunfights still last forever. The gunfights have turned into turtle warfare in this past build. Quite tedious imho. This isn't about tactical shooters vs arcade shooters. The problem on our hands is much more complicated then that. Health and movement speed need to be able to match each other in a smooth way. Either health needs to be lowered to match the incredibly slow strafe speeds, or they need to bring back strafing to match the insane amounts of health so that skill will be a factor in in this game again.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:27:00 - [13] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: 1. slow strafe speed that was nerfed AGAIN (no one asked for this CCP) 2. game still feels stiff and sluggish 3. frame rate drops really affect the gunplay @iron wolf halo has a similar scope same as Resistance marksman. u dont necessarily need to see the gun, too many ppl accustom to other more military shooters. Anyway weapon customisation will solve this along with bringing back that caldari AR with the reflex sight PS: side note.......CCP fix the tact AR and bring it back to single shot. kthnxbai 1. Acutally it was asked numerous times, mostly from HMG users that was having a scout dodge between bullets of an HMG going full bore on them instead of circle strafing around them. 2. File under control lag. 3. File under stability. These are not gun play issues.
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:32:00 - [14] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Mavado V Noriega wrote: 1. slow strafe speed that was nerfed AGAIN (no one asked for this CCP) 2. game still feels stiff and sluggish 3. frame rate drops really affect the gunplay @iron wolf halo has a similar scope same as Resistance marksman. u dont necessarily need to see the gun, too many ppl accustom to other more military shooters. Anyway weapon customisation will solve this along with bringing back that caldari AR with the reflex sight PS: side note.......CCP fix the tact AR and bring it back to single shot. kthnxbai 1. Acutally it was asked numerous times, mostly from HMG users that was having a scout dodge between bullets of an HMG going full bore on them instead of circle strafing around them. 2. File under control lag. 3. File under stability. These are not gun play issues. There was nothing wrong with the strafe speed. It was the garbage hit detection. People were crying nerf before we even got to see how the game ran with proper hit detection. The community will ruin the game in the end.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:36:00 - [15] - Quote Well it gives ccp opertunnity to add a skill that increases run/walk speed now.
Lonewolf514 79	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:39:00 - [16] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: ::grabs popcorn:: like you are pro lol. hilmar is more pro than you you scrub
Lonewolf514 79	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:42:00 - [17] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Mavado V Noriega wrote: 1. slow strafe speed that was nerfed AGAIN (no one asked for this CCP) 2. game still feels stiff and sluggish 3. frame rate drops really affect the gunplay @iron wolf halo has a similar scope same as Resistance marksman. u dont necessarily need to see the gun, too many ppl accustom to other more military shooters. Anyway weapon customisation will solve this along with bringing back that caldari AR with the reflex sight PS: side note.......CCP fix the tact AR and bring it back to single shot. kthnxbai 1. Acutally it was asked numerous times, mostly from HMG users that was having a scout dodge between bullets of an HMG going full bore on them instead of circle strafing around them. 2. File under control lag. 3. File under stability. These are not gun play issues. There was nothing wrong with the strafe speed. It was the garbage hit detection. People were crying nerf before we even got to see how the game ran with proper hit detection. The community will ruin the game in the end. impossible. ynless they are sat in the circlejerk.
Lonewolf514 79	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:46:00 - [18] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: The problem with the gunplay at its core is the health to movement ratio. The movement we have now is designed for tactical shooters, while the amount of health we have is more for strafe and shoot games. We have 2 extremes that are designed for different type of shooters. In replication, gunfights would last forever and everyone would spin for days. Now the strafe speed is nerfed to hell but we still have insane amounts of health so gunfights still last forever. The gunfights have turned into turtle warfare in this past build. Quite tedious imho. This isn't about tactical shooters vs arcade shooters. The problem on our hands is much more complicated then that. Health and movement speed need to be able to match each other in a smooth way. Either health needs to be lowered to match the incredibly slow strafe speeds, or they need to bring back strafing to match the insane amounts of health so that skill will be a factor in in this game again. someone tell this guy to sit down and stfu:P then pass him a beer.
crazy space ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:46:00 - [19] - Quote DON RODIE II wrote: people just dont understand, we don't like the scopes or aim down sights in this game. They look like halo when most people prefer battlefield and cod scopes. No one complains about planetside 2 gunplay because first, they got the scopes and the aim down sights right. PS2 gunplay suck. But they first impression looks good so no one says anything. BUT THE HALO TYPE scopes in Dust with the assualt rifles and sniper rifles, people don't like. Just go to a youtube video. People don't like them. Most people like borderland 2 guns. They sould learn from them.... Good thing those are placeholders and the ARs and such do have sights coming. It's a beta dude
Nstomper Th3-ReSiStAnCe-SEC.0 205	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:51:00 - [20] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: ::grabs popcorn:: Wanna share some?

Gundo Sens MK2 Enterprises 13	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:54:00 - [21] - Quote I quite like the fact that we have enough health to make engagements drawn out, I think this way it encourages teamwork and a kill feels well earned.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1902	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:54:00 - [22] - Quote Lonewolf514 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: ::grabs popcorn:: like you are pro lol. hilmar is more pro than you you scrub Wtf!?!?! LMFAO Seriously...what???
VanguardCommander Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 48	Posted - 2012.10.05 21:58:00 - [23] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: ::grabs popcorn:: I GOT THE PEPSI AND COKE WHO WANT SOME!!!
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 810	Posted - 2012.10.05 22:01:00 - [24] - Quote Well, first off, the actual aiming is very sluggish, and seems to have a pretty big "dead zone" in the middle of the joystick. It seems you can either really tweak the pad and the reticule moves substantially, or you can try to finesse it and it just sits without moving. This is the main reason it feels so "herky jerky" to aim. More importantly now though, IMO, is the lack of any sort of decent movement, coupled with maps that seem predicated on movement heavy combat. It has been slowed so far down that the gameplay from moment to moment is more about where you are standing, who is around you, and (most importantly) how good your gear is. You can't really use any "moves" to give yourself a leg up, there isn't really any sort of learning curve as far as the gunplay itself goes. When you couple that with how the maps are laid out, with large open areas separating hot spot clusters of CQC, it just doesn't make any sense. The maps are designed for fast paced, loosely coordinated play, but the gameplay is geared towards slow and calculated squad movements. It just doesn't add up. You have one option, and that option is to point at the other guy and shoot, hoping that your gun vs. his HP is better than his gun vs. your HP. It's that depth of actual on the ground joystick ability that's missing. There's nothing to learn and no skills to improve for THE ACTUAL PLAYER, all the skills are mitigated to number adjustments added to THE CHARACTER in game. Much like a standard point and click MMO, it's not about how well you play, it's about how well you set up your make believe character to make believe play. The game really is focused now almost solely on what I think of as the "back office." It's all about who's on your team, who you're up against, and how much SP and ISK you have that's available on the field. The bigger corp with the most time invested will likely win nearly every battle because it's the only real variable that can be affected since there is almost zero learning curve as far as on the field technique now.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.05 22:30:00 - [25] - Quote My opinion? This build technically very little. Big +1 for CCP on that account. But.. Crimson mentioned we now have high health, low movement speed. Ignatious explained the reason movement sucks, because it's been flattened like the suit HP. It's probably to do with the mass they gave our clones :D Just needs some tweaking. The other major problem is the lack of recoil on even the militia AR. This means anyone with aiming abilities can just shoot your face at 50-100 yards, and put 20 rounds there before you can strafe/run. Similar story with reduced recoil sniper rifle. It's reduced the game to a camping fest. People can farm spawns very easily currently, because they can just sit 50 yards away and own you with recoil free weapons. The damage the laser does compared to the AR is a good example of what a recoil free weapon should be in my opinion. Less skill so less damage. It's just too easy to Alpha strike currently. No-one has said Dust is a CoD clone until this build. It's the combination of these factors which has turned the gameplay around. It's more the fact movement and recoil were better last build. If we had moved from E3 to Precursor, I think there would be far less complaints. But Precursor had so so much going for it's gunplay. It's the contrast between the 2.
Madison Four 57	Posted - 2012.10.05 23:07:00 - [26] - Quote One thing said here that I will agree with, is that there is no Recoil at all or very, very little on a lot of weapons. particularly the SMG and ARs.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.10.05 23:09:00 - [27] - Quote Dead zone would be an acutal gun play issue. should be brought up more with threads titled as such.
ChargersGirlLuvsDP Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 49	Posted - 2012.10.05 23:12:00 - [28] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Mavado V Noriega wrote: 1. slow strafe speed that was nerfed AGAIN (no one asked for this CCP) 2. game still feels stiff and sluggish 3. frame rate drops really affect the gunplay @iron wolf halo has a similar scope same as Resistance marksman. u dont necessarily need to see the gun, too many ppl accustom to other more military shooters. Anyway weapon customisation will solve this along with bringing back that caldari AR with the reflex sight PS: side note.......CCP fix the tact AR and bring it back to single shot. kthnxbai 1. Acutally it was asked numerous times, mostly from HMG users that was having a scout dodge between bullets of an HMG going full bore on them instead of circle strafing around them. 2. File under control lag. 3. File under stability. These are not gun play issues. There was nothing wrong with the strafe speed. It was the garbage hit detection. People were crying nerf before we even got to see how the game ran with proper hit detection. The segment of the community that is constant crying for the game to be an arcadey run and gunner will ruin the game in the end. FYP
vickers a wellesly Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 7	Posted - 2012.10.05 23:15:00 - [29] - Quote I actually like this build and the slower speed makes for imo better gun fights the one thing i will agree whith is the AR has for to little kick
daft danger 0	Posted - 2012.10.05 23:21:00 - [30] - Quote Gundo Sens wrote: I quite like the fact that we have enough health to make engagements drawn out, I think this way it encourages teamwork and a kill feels well earned.



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