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Bosse Ansgar
47
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Posted - 2012.10.06 07:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here are the issues with the gunplay that I can see:
1. ADS and scopes are generally bad, and the mass driver ADS needs to be tweaked.
2. If you turn too much while sprinting you stop sprinting. You should be able to run in just about any forward direction without slowing to a walk.
3. Now that hit detection is mostly fixed, strafe speed needs to be unnerfed.
4. Slight jumps and catches in the graphics make it hard to keep a bead on the enemy, so much so that I've switched to a logi-unit with a shotgun because it's to big a pain to compensate for it.
5. Turn speed even with the speed all the way up is pathetic. It makes your twitch reflex almost useless.
6. Movement speed needs to be turned WAY up for all characters. Keep the % of difference between dropsuits, but in huge open maps like this you need to be able to get around properly. This will also make the gameplay more excited and frantic.
Note: And when the scout dropsuit camo and signature are fixed to be what they should, we will ALL need that speed to avoid getting picked off by snipers every 2 seconds.
Edit: And you'll all hate on me for it, but going prone. Hitting the dirt has been a military tactic since the first caveman got hit in the head with a rock. Don't give me the whiny BS about people camping, they do that anyway. Getting low always has and always will be a valid tactic whether you think it's fair or not. I'm not saying make it exploitable in a firefight like in COD, give it a nice long animation getting up and down, and don't let heavys be able to do it because their armor is too bulky. Let the flamming begin! |
Bosse Ansgar
47
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Posted - 2012.10.06 22:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Aighun wrote:As a non FPS aficionado the thing that I find the most frustrating about the gunplay is waiting for the game to catch up. It feels like there is a total lack of moment to moment gameplay.
Even though my reflexes are slow, the game is slower still. From turn and strafe speed, to throwing a grenade, to switching out weapons, to transitions between sprint and crouching, strafing and sprinting. This to me is a terrible thing on a multiplayer console shooting game because it almost totally negates the possibility of the player reacting to what is going on around them at the speed at which they can push buttons and move the sticks on the controller. So that hand eye coordination aspect of gaming, in this case gunplay, that has been a part of games since at least pong, or missile command, is noticeably absent from moment to moment "gunplay" where you are shooting at stuff and trying to avoid getting shot in return.
It feels more like I am playing a turn based strategy game, or RPG, or something like a Final Fantasy game, where you get your character into position, then the character or the player's fighting forces execute the attacks they are capable of with the gear they have equipped with minimal further input from the player.
This does make for great strategic gaming, but it is almost to the point where you can't even play as just a dude or lady that wants to jump into a game and shoot some stuff and blow some stuff up. It isn't that the game is better when playing as a team, it is almost not possible to play any other way. Your squad's position on the map relative to the enemy, the balance of gear between the members of a squad and a team, are now almost the entire focus of the game.
So I don't feel that like an individual merc, immersed in a war, where my own unique fighting skills actually matter on the battle field, moment to moment. That visceral and palpably physical connection to the game, where every second counts, where every nudge of the controller is meaningful, is not really there in this build.
Or, to put it succinctly, the game is too slow.
The good thing about this build is that so far it feels the most solid and balanced. And the strategic and abstract gameplay is very close to being balanced with the moment to moment physical gunplay. As others have said, if the speed of the game gets turned up a notch, across the board, without changing the speed of any one portion of the game relative to any other, that would be a huge improvement. +100 Best post since Codex was released. I appreciate you saying you aren't an FPS aficionado too. Puts perspective on how huge the changes are.
Agreed Gotta say I agree with Tony on 90% of his posts, but this one is definitely right on the money. |
Bosse Ansgar
47
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Posted - 2012.10.07 04:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
SkIlL Sh0oTeR wrote:The gunplay in this is just down right boring it takes forever to get to the main battle and then you spend most of the time running (speed walking) around trying to find an enemy and when you do it doesn't matter who has more skill cause its just who ever shoots who first win the battle. Its just way to slow, you can even at at someone when your scoped because either it doesn't move or it moves way to much.
i think DUST needs to move in the direction of MAG yes MAG i know its a sin to say that word but thats the one things Zipper got right with that game. You were able to move fast enough so that you can get around the map. you were able to strafe but not to the point were people were unable to aim at you, and jumping wasn't a big deal because you just adjusted your aim a little bit and that was it, also once you jumped you stopped shooting so that really reduce the amount of jumping in a gun fight.
But in IMO people who say to "ADAPT" to this new build should actually follow their own advice because in a FPS you are able to strafe jump and dodge in order to kill the enemy. This isn't an FPS anymore its just stand and hope that the person your shooting at runs out of HP before you do.
O and no i don't play COD.
Personally getting tired of people who don't care about the game being easily accessible to everyone crying ADAPT at everything. The whole point of the Beta is to fix the issues so that people don't HAVE to adapt. +1
in order to be a pick up and play shooter this game has to handle properly, and by adapting to the buggy system we have here we are doing this game a disservice. |
Bosse Ansgar
47
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Posted - 2012.10.07 04:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:SkIlL Sh0oTeR wrote:The gunplay in this is just down right boring it takes forever to get to the main battle and then you spend most of the time running (speed walking) around trying to find an enemy and when you do it doesn't matter who has more skill cause its just who ever shoots who first win the battle. Its just way to slow, you can even at at someone when your scoped because either it doesn't move or it moves way to much.
i think DUST needs to move in the direction of MAG yes MAG i know its a sin to say that word but thats the one things Zipper got right with that game. You were able to move fast enough so that you can get around the map. you were able to strafe but not to the point were people were unable to aim at you, and jumping wasn't a big deal because you just adjusted your aim a little bit and that was it, also once you jumped you stopped shooting so that really reduce the amount of jumping in a gun fight.
But in IMO people who say to "ADAPT" to this new build should actually follow their own advice because in a FPS you are able to strafe jump and dodge in order to kill the enemy. This isn't an FPS anymore its just stand and hope that the person your shooting at runs out of HP before you do.
O and no i don't play COD. Mag had the perfect amount of health and movement speed. You could turn on a scrub that is camping and win the gunfight if he sucks. I hate CoD style camping games where who ever sees the other person first wins. That takes no skill. You outsmarted the other person by hiding in a corner but does that doesn't make you better.
Not hating on you for the cod comment, I hate COD and campers in general, however camping is a valid military tactic no matter how much it irritates you. It's not outsmarting people to camp, but it is punishing people who aren't careful to avoid open areas and wandering around without looking around. In fact sniping is nothing but camp-move-camp-move-etc.
Also, this game isn't as balanced as MAG because MAG didn't have the same system of gear and skills that this game has. You cannot expect this game to balance the same unless they entirely remove the different tiers of dropsuits and just have one of each type that basically would equate to perks in COD. Heavy would be damage resistant and slow, scout would be fast and weak, logistics would be somewhat weak, somewhat fast, and allow you to carry more items, and assault would be somewhat damage resistant and somewhat slower. |
Bosse Ansgar
47
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Posted - 2012.10.07 05:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Crimson MoonV wrote:Bosse Ansgar wrote:Crimson MoonV wrote:SkIlL Sh0oTeR wrote:The gunplay in this is just down right boring it takes forever to get to the main battle and then you spend most of the time running (speed walking) around trying to find an enemy and when you do it doesn't matter who has more skill cause its just who ever shoots who first win the battle. Its just way to slow, you can even at at someone when your scoped because either it doesn't move or it moves way to much.
i think DUST needs to move in the direction of MAG yes MAG i know its a sin to say that word but thats the one things Zipper got right with that game. You were able to move fast enough so that you can get around the map. you were able to strafe but not to the point were people were unable to aim at you, and jumping wasn't a big deal because you just adjusted your aim a little bit and that was it, also once you jumped you stopped shooting so that really reduce the amount of jumping in a gun fight.
But in IMO people who say to "ADAPT" to this new build should actually follow their own advice because in a FPS you are able to strafe jump and dodge in order to kill the enemy. This isn't an FPS anymore its just stand and hope that the person your shooting at runs out of HP before you do.
O and no i don't play COD. Mag had the perfect amount of health and movement speed. You could turn on a scrub that is camping and win the gunfight if he sucks. I hate CoD style camping games where who ever sees the other person first wins. That takes no skill. You outsmarted the other person by hiding in a corner but does that doesn't make you better. Not hating on you for the cod comment, I hate COD and campers in general, however camping is a valid military tactic no matter how much it irritates you. It's not outsmarting people to camp, but it is punishing people who aren't careful to avoid open areas and wandering around without looking around. In fact sniping is nothing but camp-move-camp-move-etc. Also, this game isn't as balanced as MAG because MAG didn't have the same system of gear and skills that this game has. You cannot expect this game to balance the same unless they entirely remove the different tiers of dropsuits and just have one of each type that basically would equate to perks in COD. Heavy would be damage resistant and slow, scout would be fast and weak, logistics would be somewhat weak, somewhat fast, and allow you to carry more items, and assault would be somewhat damage resistant and somewhat slower. I know its a legit tactic. I get drunk with my friends and play CoD occasionally. A certain amount of finesse is needed to play CoD. You have to somewhat camp and control the map/spawns. The people that just sit in one corner all game is pretty weak and actually makes for some really boring gameplay imho. There are ways to eliminate camping in fps though. Or at least limit its effectiveness. I don't want a spin and strafe game. I do want enough movement and health to be able to turn on a camping scrub and kill them. I don't think that's asking to much. We have the health for it. We just need the movement speed to make this game more competitive.
I have no issue with what you are wanting from the game, but in order for the game to be playable in that way the health for each class of dropsuit and damage for each type of gun has to be set and not tiered. Maybe a few different types of the same weapon, the more expensive ones with the least recoil and spread, but still not separated by huge jumps like these. If it's gonna be balanced like MAG it needs damage/health balance as well as a balance between movement and health.
That said, I think movement needs to be fixed to be based on the type of weapon you have equipped. Strafe and movement speed is faster for lighter weapons and slower for heavier ones. For the movement control and feel, MAG is definitely a great spring board for this game to start at, but even the MAG control needed a few small tweaks. I doubt we can convince CCP to use MAG's movement specs however.
Also, going prone. I've mentioned it many times, but it needs to be said. Make it a slow animation and prevent firing during the animation so it's only used strategically, but prone is needed. I get popped all the time over the top of a rail I'm taking cover behind by people who are just high enough to see the top of my head. I can't stand and run away fast enough, and I can't go prone to avoid enemy fire, so I'm taken out while reloading behind cover. Is it really cover if you can't go prone to take full advantage of it? |
Bosse Ansgar
47
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Posted - 2012.10.07 05:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm Not Moejoe wrote:-Damage drops off dramatically over short distances -Analog stick sensitivity drops dramatically when you're sprinting which makes it difficult to aim and makes you feel sluggish. -Maps are extremely open, featureless almost boring, terrain is poor for good gunplay. -There can never really be true balance with the health mods/damage mods and such. -Also general lag caused by poor framerate/unresponsive UI which may never be fixed it seems.
Agree with all but the maps part. When we can call in installations and such, not to mention when player count goes up in battles, it's going to almost be overcrowded with LAVs, tanks, installations, etc. |
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