And that you currently believe that the manufacturer cannot be both base AND variant?

Maybe I am not understanding your argument. I think you are saying that the races were the base, with the manufacturer becoming the variants?

And that you currently believe that the manufacturer cannot be both base AND variant?

If I misunderstood, please correct me.

If however I got the gist of what you are saying, then I am going to have to disagree. History is full of people combining things or adding just a bit to them to do something new. People constantly use various electronic hardware and create new software to change the intended use. Most recently, people took the NES Classic and made all sorts of classic games playable on it, even non Nintendo games.

That hack happened despite Nintendo not intending it. I don't see why it can't be the same for Nova. The suits are just hardware. Some base stats will be innate to hardware, with software optimizing those. Other stats will be all software. Changing software would remove the software only bonuses (provided the new software doesn't have the same or better), and while that new software doesn't necessarily optimize the hardware, it also can't take away the innate nature of the hardware. In the end you will have something not quite what it was, but not entirely different either.

Edit: Pokey probably said it better.

I'm saying America holds competitions for new weapons contracts. The Army has certain design specifications in mind. Manufacturers then produce weapons based on those design specs.

Another manufacturer may later go and create "improvements" to the design accepted by the U.S. Army and sell it on the market. But it's still provided the same basic functions laid out in the design specs, or it can even look the same but do different things. But it was based on the original design specs.

I think that might be the disconnect. I don't see why (functionally) they can't do both.

Brutor Tribe built the original assault suit used by Minmatar ground forces back in whatever year when they were commission by Republic Fleet Command. And then other manufacturers copied and improved it.

Part of the problem was Pokey initially describe the progression as

Starting class (civilian) > Tech 1 (gear bonus) > Tech 2 (role bonus) > Tech 3 (firmware)

that's different from:

NOVA

Base Manufacturer > Role/Frame Bonuses (Tech I) > Specialization Bonuses (Tech II) > Manufacturer Firmware

Where Firmware modifies Tech II, improving potentially both Tech I and Tech II bonuses

That's unnecessary.

The Vx. 1 Apex suits were literally the same dropsuit, color scheme, and stats as the original apex suit, but with a different load out.

If we can eventually swap modules from other suits after progressing through them, there's no need to offer something so similar. The way progression was described by Rattati, we would be able to swap out modules on the suit we want and then choose firmware to give the appropriate bonuses.

Suggesting we add Carthum Vanguard next to a Viziam Vanguard, is redundant if they only differ by load out. It produces an item that item otherwise created by the players through progression.

This I kinda what I've been getting at for a week now. The only logical additions to any class, are those manufacturers whose who belong to a different race. Don't add another Amarr vanguard manufacture if one already exists. Players can basically create those themselves using firmware. We would add caldari vanguard manufacturer instead. The base stats would be different for a Lai Dai vanguard vs a Viziam vanguard and would also have different modules. The bonuses can be swapped out. I also think the base stats should change based on firmware.

The Vx.1 analogy is insufficient I agree...maybe we could look at eve, the difference between a Khanid and VIziam Vanugard suit could be more like the difference between a Sacrilege and Zealot class Heavy Assault Cruisers, both bonuses and base stats are slightly different along with their equipment load-outs being different

To use your analogy,

Firmware is like switching operating systems. Changing the software isn't going to physically turn your PC into a Mac.

To use your analogy,

Firmware is like switching operating systems. Changing the software isn't going to physically turn your PC into a Mac.

So firmware changes are going to give you a different UI, but do exactly the same thing?

And one will skip version 9, for no apparent reason.

So firmware changes are going to give you a different UI, but do exactly the same thing?

And one will skip version 9, for no apparent reason.

I had a moment of clarity today.

When Eve players think of corp manufacturers, the ones that are brought up the most often are the associated with Tech 2 ships.

I forgot that there are many "lesser" corps in Eve.

Using the lesser corps as the manufacturer of the baseline dropsuits protects the corps most people will know. I think it's the most elegant solution that provides what the devs want, and also "makes sense."

NPC Corporations

Any of the corps listed under "Manufacturing and Industry" would be suitable selection for the "civilian" dropsuit models that can used as the baseline.

I had a moment of clarity today.

When Eve players think of corp manufacturers, the ones that are brought up the most often are the associated with Tech 2 ships.

I forgot that there are many "lesser" corps in Eve.

Using the lesser corps as the manufacturer of the baseline dropsuits protects the corps most people will know. I think it's the most elegant solution that provides what the devs want, and also "makes sense."

NPC Corporations

Any of the corps listed under "Manufacturing and Industry" would be suitable selection for the "civilian" dropsuit models that can used as the baseline.

Am I beating a dead horse?

I'm beating a dead horse ain't I...

Sorry, was reading through the thread and just had the opinion and remembrance in like page 3, I revisit these threads only occasionally nowadays

Hope the game's coming along nicely

where does it not exist, in your mind?

Clever!

I think that's what the firmware is for. But i've also been reading that firmware may or may not changes base stats. I think the base stats should change personally because they come from different manufacturers.

But i'm getting the feeling firmware is basically taking a computer... and swapping the operating system from Mac to Linux to Windows.

It's easier to just change and balance bonuses instead of the base stats. There should be a control variable somewhere for reference.

Ultimately, I think this thread can be boiled down to thus:
Theorycrafting is all well and good but you'll never get a true feel for the idea unless it's been thoroughly tested ;D

Ultimately, I think this thread can be boiled down to thus:
Theorycrafting is all well and good but you'll never get a true feel for the idea unless it's been thoroughly tested ;D

But I still got you all to have a good discussion about it which is great feedback

"Good" and "great" are subjective.

JK, Pokey. Even though this thread may have went off the rails a few times, it was better than just discussing other games while waiting for Nova.