All Im gonna say is theres no such thing as a Civilian dropsuit lol.

The progression is all well and good, but I have a couple of questions/concerns.
How big will the power/bonus be between each tier of dropsuits?
Are there mechanics in place to prevent or discourage protostomping like we had before in Dust, be they monetary rewards or lack thereof?

So if I understand, there is only one "tier" of each module (standard) and all "sidegrades" are varations thereof? Example being a Drop Uplink, one with faster spawntime but less spawns, and slower spawns but more spawns?

Improvements to modules then come directly from suits and respective classes/roles? If this is the case, it seems to imply that "loot" will not be a thing in Vanilla Nova and modules will not have Meta Levels?

I don't think I get it.

The way I see it, this seems even more broken than Dust. Everyone was complaining about tiers in Dust, and then CCP brings it back ten fold by even separating tiers with bonuses? What?

Civilian - no bonuses
Tech I - Bonus 1
Tech II - Bonus 1 + Bonus 2

How is this any different? In Dust, you could choose how you upgrade your characters. In here, your choice is limited by what you are using (which is okay, I guess), but progressing and widening the gap between Newbie fits vs Vet fits is still there. There's no pass-through content, except why would anyone use Civilian over Tech X suits?

A year after Nova's launch vets using Tech X will still be stomping civilians lol

Is this how it is going to work? If not, enlighten me, por favor because I just don't get it.

Oh, psh yeah. No doubt it. I just thought CCP wanted to level the playing field by getting rid of tiers in favor of racial bonuses only. I thought the difference from a T1 to a T2 suit would be going to a more specialized suit by it both greater strength and weakness (as in going from 300 shields / 200 armor to 400/100, etc). Same amount of 'tokens', but placed in different locations.

Last question: in your article, did you mean that T1 suits will have T1 bonuses, and T2 will have both T1 and T2 bonuses?

Thanks.

Please elaborate, I have a desperate, terminal case of the dumb as made evident by the repeated smashing of my face against various inanimate objects.

A WP centric system without passive gains would further punish the newbro that this whole system is supposedly designed to help carry along through the game. If the matchmaker is robust enough and the community large enough and the Academy lasts long enough then I can see this not being much of an issue and concede there. However if the matchmaker / end game activities don't split up the game enough, I don't see how it will stop squads from T2 stomping with a large array of fits and just coming in and crushing newbros anyways.

I'm not as salty about the concept. Like the idea. Though I do have a question, if I play minlogi and want to use droplinks does that mean I have to play Amarr logi to get them and cal logi for nanohives? If so it would seriously diversify the playing field which is a great idea.

I had a feeling this was the road we were going down when Rattati first said he did not want to make four of everything. It sounds like Nova will be like the beginning days of DUST where there was only 1 Scout (Gal), 1 Logi (Min), 1 Assault (Cal), and 1 Sentinel (Amarr).

So now the question that stands is : how much work/time will you need to put in order to get a full tech II and/or III for a given class. Maybe an approximate number / or an idea?

As others pointed out, being forced to play a class you very much dislike in order to make your class better is a grind no matter how you look at it. Depending on the previous question's answer this can be bearable or unbearable.
I use the word "forced" because that's the feeling someone who wants to maximize his class potential will get.

They've got to allow some overlap in the progression system for example

Drop uplinks could be considered light support
Triage hives could be considered heavy support

You would want medium support to have access to both of these but I would not expect to have to get light and heavy to tech 2 to accomplish this.

I would think the progression is get tech 1, earn WP using the suit to unlock the slots and allow you to put something else in that fits the suit profile I.e swap out the repair tool for hives

Level the whole suit to tech 2 then level up the slots again to unlock the equipment for use on any suit I.e. cloak on a heavy

This is just for context here to make sure I'm following, but in this example I assume it would at best be impractical to build a squad purely for the RP value (or any other reason) of say just Minmatar suits? This is not a comparison to DUST. I just want to know if this is the foundation that NOVA is being built on. Or at least a reasonable interpretation.

Or is this one generic logi suit without racial affiliation?

Don't you mean faction?

So if a given suit type is made by a manufacturer tied to a faction... I'm concerned an entire role will be railroaded into it's racial doctrine until it's a high enough tier to make your own changes.

I could be missing something, but that's what I'm getting from this. Are the suits gonna be more or less neutral in their attributes to prevent this?

I was just hassling you, Pokey. Everyone got what you were saying.

Anyway, coming from DUST, this is kind of a crushing disappointment. CCP definitely seems aimed toward streamlining/simplifying their FPS for the mainstream though.
Ironically, faction is a big factor starting out in EVE as an Alpha clone as it locks you only to the ships of the faction you picked during character creation. That is why it is all the more surprising to me factions have so little focus in Nova. In fact, moving from EVE to Nova or Nova to EVE, I see it really making zero sense to players. That is why with all of the streamlining being done to Nova, I am not even sure why CCP kept it within the EVE universe instead of making it's own standalone scifi FPS title.

I like it when you talk dirty. I miss that about you.

I'm trying to get clarification.

Amarr Ship Tree

This picture illustrates my expectation for Nova.

Ship "Classes" break down into specialized ships, each of which developed by a corp that is a member of its race and based off a base line ship.

Will Nova follow this structure or not?

Instead of 4 empire/racial variants of a particular dropsuit, we could potentially see something over 30 different Corp based variants of the same "class".

A LOT more work but it provides a future wealth of potential content as more and more corps could added to the game. For example, caldari 4 major corps out of their 8 megacorps, are Kaalakiota, Ishikune, lai dai, wiyrkomi.

But a quick look at this more complete listing of caldari corps shows just how many corps there really are to pontentially create content for.

Caldari NPC Corps

Dang it, Pokey! You gone and said it.
I originally said the game name myself in my original post but before I knew it, I had a long rant about that game.
BTW, I know you say both games are not even close but am I incorrect with the parallels provided?

Valid point, Pokey. I also admit the parallels I provided were very broad. All being fair, a couple of those parallels could apply to DUST as well. As said, I am not trying to start anything; I just referenced what came to mind putting the Nova info together.

No, unless you hated that type of design (or the affiliated game).
Really, it is hard to judge such things without just seeing it for yourself. Still, I wonder if Nova will end up being too different for me coming from where I have. I am just one person though that obviously does not really adhere to the mainstream. For example, I have never played WoT as I just have no interest as I prefer ground combat or mixed.

Not class. I'm sorry.

We have 2 heavies, 2 mediums, and 2 light frames yes? One heavy is armor tanked, the other is shield tanked. same for mediums and light frames. One armor and one shield tanked

Okay, so imagine if you will, you start with a few default APEX suits from various manufacturers (The default ones)

• Core Complexion Logistics
• Kaalakiota Assault
• Ishukone Sentinel
• Imperial Armaments Vanguard
• Duvolle Infiltrator
• Boundless Sharpshooter

Each of these comes equipped with a set of weapons and equipment pre-fit to them, like you'd expect from an APEX suit. Manufacturers started giving these out to boost sales and remain competitive in the now returning market of Dropsuits and Personal weapons for Infomorphs.

However, as you build up ISK and loyalty with a few contractors, more options become available...you can start buying things like:

• Carthum Logistics
• Viziam Assault
• Khanid Innovations Assault
• Roden Vanguard
• Lai Dai Infiltrator
• Thukker Assault

etc etc etc. Manufacturers might not produce a version of every suit, but they'll produce suits that fit their specific needs and strategies...just maybe not at launch (remember how early in DUST we had Amarr Sentinel, Caldari Assault, Minmatar Logistics, and Gallente Scout...same thing).

Each of the suits from different manufacturers may come with different weapons and equipment installed onto it by default, along with that specific manufacturer's firmware pre-installed. You need knowledge with each individual suit or maybe even by class of suit to be able to switch out the equipment without breaking everything. We don't know all the details or even if you start with those sets.

Make new thread pokey and put it to a vote. Then we will see what the people want most. Probably need a description of what each class is according to the devs.

And that you currently believe that the manufacturer cannot be both base AND variant?

I'm saying America holds competitions for new weapons contracts. The Army has certain design specifications in mind. Manufacturers then produce weapons based on those design specs.

Another manufacturer may later go and create "improvements" to the design accepted by the U.S. Army and sell it on the market. But it's still provided the same basic functions laid out in the design specs, or it can even look the same but do different things. But it was based on the original design specs.

Brutor Tribe built the original assault suit used by Minmatar ground forces back in whatever year when they were commission by Republic Fleet Command. And then other manufacturers copied and improved it.

Part of the problem was Pokey initially describe the progression as

Starting class (civilian) > Tech 1 (gear bonus) > Tech 2 (role bonus) > Tech 3 (firmware)

that's different from:

NOVA

Base Manufacturer > Role/Frame Bonuses (Tech I) > Specialization Bonuses (Tech II) > Manufacturer Firmware

Where Firmware modifies Tech II, improving potentially both Tech I and Tech II bonuses

So firmware changes are going to give you a different UI, but do exactly the same thing?

And one will skip version 9, for no apparent reason.

I had a moment of clarity today.

When Eve players think of corp manufacturers, the ones that are brought up the most often are the associated with Tech 2 ships.

I forgot that there are many "lesser" corps in Eve.

Using the lesser corps as the manufacturer of the baseline dropsuits protects the corps most people will know. I think it's the most elegant solution that provides what the devs want, and also "makes sense."

NPC Corporations

Any of the corps listed under "Manufacturing and Industry" would be suitable selection for the "civilian" dropsuit models that can used as the baseline.

Am I beating a dead horse?

I'm beating a dead horse ain't I...

Sorry, was reading through the thread and just had the opinion and remembrance in like page 3, I revisit these threads only occasionally nowadays

Hope the game's coming along nicely

Ultimately, I think this thread can be boiled down to thus:
Theorycrafting is all well and good but you'll never get a true feel for the idea unless it's been thoroughly tested ;D

"Good" and "great" are subjective.

JK, Pokey. Even though this thread may have went off the rails a few times, it was better than just discussing other games while waiting for Nova.

@ Pokey
Where's this updated compiled list from Rattati you referred to in past posts?
Come on, man. Do your job. I'm doing mine.

In all seriousness, discussion has seemed to stagnate again recently so it would be good to have something/anything new to comment about.

"Internal review"? You sure you're not a CCP employee, Pokey?
Well, I am sure a lot are waiting to see it.

BTW, thinking over our discussion in this thread, I really missed a chance to use a phrase that just came to mind. To help end out this thread, I am going to use it now.
DUSTiny.

did CCP say that the slots are locked within a class?

what's keeping us from customizing classes with modules they already have access to?

I imagine that once you reach tech 1, you swap out modules with "alternate" modules. They just may or may not be available to trade between classes.

but what the current suggestion by ccp actually does, it prevent fotm from happening. No one will be able to to quickly bandwagon onto a broken fit. This minimizes the damage done by imbalances and gives ccp the time it needs to balance modules/fits

Dust 514 had a problem with this, where anytime a new fit was found to be OP, anyone and everyone could simply respec and claim the new fotm fit. This caused an overwhelm imbalance while CCP tried to correct things.

Overall, being forced to play classes before trading modules is good and is actually no worse than any other FPS. Truth be told, there aren't mant games that even let you swap skills between classes in the first place, so the fact CCP still wants to be able to at all means they just want what's best for the games overall health.