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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9366
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Posted - 2017.06.01 13:58:00 -
[61] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:I'm not as salty about the concept. Like the idea. Though I do have a question, if I play minlogi and want to use droplinks does that mean I have to play Amarr logi to get them and cal logi for nanohives? If so it would seriously diversify the playing field which is a great idea.
Well to clarify, as far as I know there is only one Logi. But you get the right idea, you'll have to play different classes to unlock gear if you want to use it on your main.
It's very similar to Cross-Class Skills from MMORPGs. Final Fantasy XIV comes to mind since that's what I'm playing right now.
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
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Moorian Flav
664
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Posted - 2017.06.01 14:44:00 -
[62] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Well to clarify, as far as I know there is only one Logi. I had a feeling this was the road we were going down when Rattati first said he did not want to make four of everything. It sounds like Nova will be like the beginning days of DUST where there was only 1 Scout (Gal), 1 Logi (Min), 1 Assault (Cal), and 1 Sentinel (Amarr).
I don't troll; I tell the truth.
I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
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Mejt0
Made in Poland...
2792
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Posted - 2017.06.01 14:46:00 -
[63] - Quote
So now the question that stands is : how much work/time will you need to put in order to get a full tech II and/or III for a given class. Maybe an approximate number / or an idea?
As others pointed out, being forced to play a class you very much dislike in order to make your class better is a grind no matter how you look at it. Depending on the previous question's answer this can be bearable or unbearable. I use the word "forced" because that's the feeling someone who wants to maximize his class potential will get.
Vigilant Pilot
Happy Hunting
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9366
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Posted - 2017.06.01 14:48:00 -
[64] - Quote
Moorian Flav wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Well to clarify, as far as I know there is only one Logi. I had a feeling this was the road we were going down when Rattati first said he did not want to make four of everything. It sounds like Nova will be like the beginning days of DUST where there was only 1 Scout (Gal), 1 Logi (Min), 1 Assault (Cal), and 1 Sentinel (Amarr).
That is correct.
Firmware obviously offers some variety, but I imagine that future expansion of the system would yield new classes, rather than variations of existing ones.
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
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Moorian Flav
664
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Posted - 2017.06.01 14:50:00 -
[65] - Quote
Doesn't sound very EVE like to me (unless EVE was limited to 1 Exploration frigate, 1 Logistics frigate, 1 Attack frigate, and 1 Destroyer ).
I don't troll; I tell the truth.
I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9368
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Posted - 2017.06.01 14:51:00 -
[66] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:So now the question that stands is : how much work/time will you need to put in order to get a full tech II and/or III for a given class. Maybe an approximate number / or an idea?
As others pointed out, being forced to play a class you very much dislike in order to make your class better is a grind no matter how you look at it. Depending on the previous question's answer this can be bearable or unbearable. I use the word "forced" because that's the feeling someone who wants to maximize his class potential will get.
I think that's a pretty fair question that seems to be cropping up a lot.
"As a player who wants access to most or modules, how long will it take for me to unlock the ability to do so?"
Or a more.focused inquiry would be "How long does it take to get a class to tech Ii?" And "How long does it take to unlock an Omni slot?"
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
1276
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Posted - 2017.06.01 15:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
They've got to allow some overlap in the progression system for example
Drop uplinks could be considered light support Triage hives could be considered heavy support
You would want medium support to have access to both of these but I would not expect to have to get light and heavy to tech 2 to accomplish this.
I would think the progression is get tech 1, earn WP using the suit to unlock the slots and allow you to put something else in that fits the suit profile I.e swap out the repair tool for hives
Level the whole suit to tech 2 then level up the slots again to unlock the equipment for use on any suit I.e. cloak on a heavy
The Final PLC Kill
Dust 514 - My Final Moments
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9370
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Posted - 2017.06.01 15:06:00 -
[68] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:They've got to allow some overlap in the progression system for example
Drop uplinks could be considered light support Triage hives could be considered heavy support
You would want medium support to have access to both of these but I would not expect to have to get light and heavy to tech 2 to accomplish this.
I would think the progression is get tech 1, earn WP using the suit to unlock the slots and allow you to put something else in that fits the suit profile I.e swap out the repair tool for hives
Level the whole suit to tech 2 then level up the slots again to unlock the equipment for use on any suit I.e. cloak on a heavy
I think there would obviously have to be some overlap in some cases. Like Shield Extender for example, multiple classes are going to have that right? So the base module is the same, but each could have unique variants you unlock through that class, so you're still encouraged to try and unlock them if they have a variant you're looking to get.
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
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byte modal
1335
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Posted - 2017.06.01 15:20:00 -
[69] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Moorian Flav wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Well to clarify, as far as I know there is only one Logi. I had a feeling this was the road we were going down when Rattati first said he did not want to make four of everything. It sounds like Nova will be like the beginning days of DUST where there was only 1 Scout (Gal), 1 Logi (Min), 1 Assault (Cal), and 1 Sentinel (Amarr). That is correct. Firmware obviously offers some variety, but I imagine that future expansion of the system would yield new classes, rather than variations of existing ones.
This is just for context here to make sure I'm following, but in this example I assume it would at best be impractical to build a squad purely for the RP value (or any other reason) of say just Minmatar suits? This is not a comparison to DUST. I just want to know if this is the foundation that NOVA is being built on. Or at least a reasonable interpretation.
Or is this one generic logi suit without racial affiliation?
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9370
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Posted - 2017.06.01 15:31:00 -
[70] - Quote
byte modal wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Moorian Flav wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Well to clarify, as far as I know there is only one Logi. I had a feeling this was the road we were going down when Rattati first said he did not want to make four of everything. It sounds like Nova will be like the beginning days of DUST where there was only 1 Scout (Gal), 1 Logi (Min), 1 Assault (Cal), and 1 Sentinel (Amarr). That is correct. Firmware obviously offers some variety, but I imagine that future expansion of the system would yield new classes, rather than variations of existing ones. This is just for context here to make sure I'm following, but in this example I assume it would at best be impractical to build a squad purely for the RP value (or any other reason) of say just Minmatar suits? This is not a comparison to DUST. I just want to know if this is the foundation that NOVA is being built on. Or at least a reasonable interpretation. Or is this one generic logi suit without racial affiliation? The suit is tied specifically to an NPC corps/manufacturer. That manufacturer likely has a race it is tied to (Boundless Minmatar, Creodron Gallente, ect.)
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
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byte modal
1335
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Posted - 2017.06.01 15:38:00 -
[71] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:byte modal wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Moorian Flav wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Well to clarify, as far as I know there is only one Logi. I had a feeling this was the road we were going down when Rattati first said he did not want to make four of everything. It sounds like Nova will be like the beginning days of DUST where there was only 1 Scout (Gal), 1 Logi (Min), 1 Assault (Cal), and 1 Sentinel (Amarr). That is correct. Firmware obviously offers some variety, but I imagine that future expansion of the system would yield new classes, rather than variations of existing ones. This is just for context here to make sure I'm following, but in this example I assume it would at best be impractical to build a squad purely for the RP value (or any other reason) of say just Minmatar suits? This is not a comparison to DUST. I just want to know if this is the foundation that NOVA is being built on. Or at least a reasonable interpretation. Or is this one generic logi suit without racial affiliation? The suit is tied specifically to an NPC corps/manufacturer. That manufacturer likely has a race it is tied to (Boundless Minmatar, Creodron Gallente, ect.)
But what I'm getting at is if that one Logi suit is then tied to a single NPC corp, that NPC corp is going to be tied to a race. So the one logi suit is only ever a Minmatar suit. Am I understanding that right? And there is only one logi suit? So every logi suit is Minmatar?
Sorry, I haven't had a chance to read/listen to the OP for clarity so I may be rehashing all this.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9370
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Posted - 2017.06.01 15:41:00 -
[72] - Quote
To the best of my understanding, you are correct. All Logis will be the same race.
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
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Moorian Flav
667
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Posted - 2017.06.01 15:48:00 -
[73] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:To the best of my understanding, you are correct. All Logis will be the same race. Don't you mean faction?
I don't troll; I tell the truth.
I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9371
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Posted - 2017.06.01 15:49:00 -
[74] - Quote
Moorian Flav wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:To the best of my understanding, you are correct. All Logis will be the same race. Don't you mean faction?
Well I do, but he's speaking from a roleplay perspective of "Which race will the manufacturer be tied to."
You are correct though, all suits of the same class as tied to the same Corp/Faction
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
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byte modal
1336
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Posted - 2017.06.01 15:53:00 -
[75] - Quote
Ok. Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, I'm only speaking broadly to race. I don't like getting into specifics (factions) if my understandings of a bigger picture are wrong. ...usually ;)
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
1170
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Posted - 2017.06.01 15:57:00 -
[76] - Quote
So if a given suit type is made by a manufacturer tied to a faction... I'm concerned an entire role will be railroaded into it's racial doctrine until it's a high enough tier to make your own changes.
I could be missing something, but that's what I'm getting from this.
"Stab you to death, stab you to life!"
-Truck Fist while knifing a red and reviving me
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Moorian Flav
670
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Posted - 2017.06.01 15:57:00 -
[77] - Quote
I was just hassling you, Pokey. Everyone got what you were saying.
Anyway, coming from DUST, this is kind of a crushing disappointment. CCP definitely seems aimed toward streamlining/simplifying their FPS though for the mainstream though. Ironically, faction is a big factor starting out in EVE as an Alpha clone as it locks you only to the ships of the faction you picked during character creation. That is why it is all the more surprising to me factions have so little focus in Nova. In fact, moving from EVE to Nova or Nova to EVE, I see it really making zero sense to players. That is why with all of the streamlining being done to Nova, I am not even sure why CCP kept it within the EVE universe instead of making it's own standalone title.
I don't troll; I tell the truth.
I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9371
|
Posted - 2017.06.01 16:08:00 -
[78] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:So if a given suit type is made by a manufacturer tied to a faction... I'm concerned an entire role will be railroaded into it's racial doctrine until it's a high enough tier to make your own changes.
I could be missing something, but that's what I'm getting from this. Are the suits gonna be more or less neutral in their attributes to prevent this?
It's unclear how they plan to do the base fits, but it stands to reason they would adopt the manufacturers design doctrine.
Kinda like how Borderlands 2 guns follow certain design principles depending on who made the gun.
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
1277
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Posted - 2017.06.01 16:15:00 -
[79] - Quote
Are shield vs armour suits still a thing?
The Final PLC Kill
Dust 514 - My Final Moments
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9371
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Posted - 2017.06.01 16:17:00 -
[80] - Quote
Moorian Flav wrote:I was just hassling you, Pokey. Everyone got what you were saying.
Anyway, coming from DUST, this is kind of a crushing disappointment. CCP definitely seems aimed toward streamlining/simplifying their FPS for the mainstream though. Ironically, faction is a big factor starting out in EVE as an Alpha clone as it locks you only to the ships of the faction you picked during character creation. That is why it is all the more surprising to me factions have so little focus in Nova. In fact, moving from EVE to Nova or Nova to EVE, I see it really making zero sense to players. That is why with all of the streamlining being done to Nova, I am not even sure why CCP kept it within the EVE universe instead of making it's own standalone scifi FPS title.
Actually Thaddeus Reynolds wrote up these amazing lore blurbs based off of the lore in EVE that laid out all of the design doctrines for the manufacturers/corps. Rattati already snatched it up and forwarded it to the design team.
So less focus on the 4 empires, more focus on the corporations within them, but they're very invested in making it fit the lore of those corporations.
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
1925
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Posted - 2017.06.01 17:15:00 -
[81] - Quote
Sounds like the issue of people running Logi to max out their sp gains is solved... Wont help you beyond leveling your Logi suit, lol.
As long as the bonuses you unlock with each suit make sense, then no one will have to play a role they don't want, because you wont need the modules/bonuses it has.
It also means the best of each role will be decided on who works on that role the most, as opposed to whoever maxed out something first being able to just passively get better at every other role even though they never play it.
Sounds pretty solid to me.
Would be nice to know if maxing out a suit is going to be long term (years with daily/weekly/monthly caps) or if it's more short term (get to your max level for end-game, week/month tops.) |
Moorian Flav
674
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Posted - 2017.06.01 17:33:00 -
[82] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Would be nice to know if maxing out a suit is going to be long term (years with daily/weekly/monthly caps) or if it's more short term (get to your max level for end-game, week/month tops.) To me with the continually streamlined scope (and seemingly less to unlock), Nova sounds like a much shorter term game than what was planned for DUST. Off the info given, my guess would be 2-3 year game lifespan. Only thing that would change that is if there is a killer end game mode to keep players playing for longer.
I don't troll; I tell the truth.
I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
Interregnum.
617
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Posted - 2017.06.01 17:36:00 -
[83] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:It feels pretty weak to make people play classes they dislike just to fill out their equipment and modules. feels pretty weak to be a dedicated logi and FOTM chasers cherrypick skills and modules from the market to make you obsolete. and lol at "make". Play your role and you don't have to do anything. Oh, you "want" another module, earn it. No passive SP -This is a rational move.
Dust system was like being a Carpenter for last 10 years, working with wood everyday andthen suddently within a few hours being able to change your profession to sucesfull wall street broker or another Luciano Pavarotti like it was nothing. Total nonsense. I think that many players will understand it, and find it logic.
When I was playing World Of Tanks years ago I had to start each class from the beginning, and there was no shortcuts on learning 'how to play' with each of them, of curse I could buy some top tier tank, but on long term it was better to learn tactics on lowe tier matches with last shorter compart to high tier matches.
What I do not like about presented progression is that damage bonus. When players starts playing new game, their aiming skills are not that good, but with the time they getting better and better.. and after some time do they really need any extra help in form of damage bonus, while player who progres slower with his aiming skills need that help. Damage bonus continues bad players to be a bad player, and good players to be even better players. Extended magazine size instead of damage bonus would be better, more efficient.
This is Skirmish v1.0.
In my free time I like to spend time.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9371
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Posted - 2017.06.01 17:39:00 -
[84] - Quote
Don't take those bonuses to mean much. Literally pulled them out of my ass at 2am when I was writing this. They were purely to present and easily understandable example, and not a finalized design.
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
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byte modal
1337
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Posted - 2017.06.01 18:24:00 -
[85] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Don't take those bonuses to mean much. Literally pulled them out of my ass at 2am when I was writing this. They were purely to present and easily understandable example, and not a finalized design.
I like it when you talk dirty. I miss that about you.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9373
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Posted - 2017.06.01 18:30:00 -
[86] - Quote
byte modal wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Don't take those bonuses to mean much. Literally pulled them out of my ass at 2am when I was writing this. They were purely to present and easily understandable example, and not a finalized design. I like it when you talk dirty. I miss that about you.
Oh dear...
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
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Moorian Flav
675
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Posted - 2017.06.01 19:25:00 -
[87] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Actually Thaddeus Reynolds wrote up these amazing lore blurbs based off of the lore in EVE that laid out all of the design doctrines for the manufacturers/corps. Rattati already snatched it up and forwarded it to the design team.
So less focus on the 4 empires, more focus on the corporations within them, but they're very invested in making it fit the lore of those corporations. I think I am pretty good at bending lore around in-game functionality with some of my suggestions I've made in the past but I do not see how a single Assault suit design or single Assault Rifle model could be explained as the only ones used within an entire universe (EVE). Case in point: The Earth is only one planet and it has how many Assault rifle models? Even if you narrow that number down within the last 10 years, it is still a lot.
I don't troll; I tell the truth.
I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9373
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Posted - 2017.06.01 19:45:00 -
[88] - Quote
And only 4 assault suits in Dust made much more sense?
Besides, what you're seeing are different corporations takes on the same ideas.
Corp A says "We want a suit that's well rounded with food speed, defense, and damage output" so they make the Assault suit
Corp B says "We want an offensive suit with lots of flexibility and hp even if it costs us some speed" so they make the Vanguard (which is like the heavy assault)
Corp C says "we want an offensive suit that's agile and stealthy, good for assassinations and covert kills" so they make the Infiltrator (which is like the light Assault)
In the future you may get Corp D that says "We want an offer some suit that specializes in sapping enemy capacitor to fuel his active offensive abilities" and create their own take on the idea of "Assault"
Or Corp E that says "we want an offensive suit that specializes in indirect damage with lots of bonuses to grenades and aoe weapons" and create their own take on "Assault"
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
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Mejt0
Made in Poland...
2792
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Posted - 2017.06.01 20:12:00 -
[89] - Quote
In other words you get a piece of clay which you further shape to suit your own imagination? Depending on the source (class) the clay will be more or less plastic, it will differ in density, etc.
Am I comprehending it good?
P.S. I can get behind the idea of a single suit. Say it's the foundation from which you base your own design. It's good enough that people don't change a certain aspect of the suit but modify the other. Take a look at the kevlar. The principal is the same, it looks very similar. It's a piece of metal / composite. What changes is the material, its thickness and its layers. Just like the bonuses and mods you will change.
Vigilant Pilot
Happy Hunting
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byte modal
1338
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Posted - 2017.06.01 20:23:00 -
[90] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:And only 4 assault suits in Dust made much more sense?
Besides, what you're seeing are different corporations takes on the same ideas.
Corp A says "We want a suit that's well rounded with food speed, defense, and damage output" so they make the Assault suit
Corp B says "We want an offensive suit with lots of flexibility and hp even if it costs us some speed" so they make the Vanguard (which is like the heavy assault)
Corp C says "we want an offensive suit that's agile and stealthy, good for assassinations and covert kills" so they make the Infiltrator (which is like the light Assault)
In the future you may get Corp D that says "We want an offer some suit that specializes in sapping enemy capacitor to fuel his active offensive abilities" and create their own take on the idea of "Assault"
Or Corp E that says "we want an offensive suit that specializes in indirect damage with lots of bonuses to grenades and aoe weapons" and create their own take on "Assault"
I guess it depends from what perspective you are seeing that play out. Four assault suits do make sense in DUST if each race has a racial suit to fill an assault role. From that perspective, yes, it does make sense.
If the corp is manufacturing these suits to sell (rather than to deploy directly), then that can make sense to me as well. If the corp is wanting to take part in some militant advance or defense, it would make absolutely no sense to produce and field only one class of combat suit.
...
Team, I want to build an army like no other, to expand our military might and to conquer this stinking sector of the known universe!!!!! Yes Sir!!!
I want all ideas on the table! Leave no stone un-turned!!! Well...I was thinking. What if we put all of our eggs into one basket here and only research, develop, and deploy heavy pounding but slow suits so that we can turtle bottleneck entry points?
BRILLIANT thinking there, Jimmy!! *pats little Jimmy on the butt* Awe shucks, Sir!!
But Sir... what if we are deployed in open terrain? And the enemy forces are made up of lighter, more mobile infantry that our heavies cannot track? PREPOSTEROUS, Tommy!!!! Who would think to deploy a team of only light scouts?! Use that brain of yours, son, and start thinking for a change!! ...
Jimmy? Yes....um. Yes, Sir?
Meet me out back for a little PT. Sir, yes Sir!
lol. anyway. The point I guess I'm worming around here is that context is a huge factor in understanding some of this. As more posts pop up, I am realizing some of these key factors are missing and are being misunderstood in assumption. The more of these type of details that we can learn, the more likely we are to get the design of the bigger picture.
Corps specializing and fielding only one suit type is not practical at all. Corps specializing and SELLING only one suit type can be profitable. That distinction is missing here and can seriously distort the view of what's playing out, I believe.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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