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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Summa Militum TotalAscendancy 381	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:27:00 - [1] - Quote This gun sucks. It used to be awesome.
7th Son 7 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 867	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:28:00 - [2] - Quote INB4 Sgt. Kirk Only your complete and total awareness is needed, nothing else will do. ------------- OSHO
Void Echo Helix Order Learning Alliance 2777	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:29:00 - [3] - Quote Your just not good with it, I go 25-9 with it regularly. But it should be buffed on the dps by about 3 points I say. Closed Beta Vet. CEO: Helix Order. I have the controlled anger, more dangerous than you.
JIMvc2 Consolidated Dust 983	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:32:00 - [4] - Quote Another pointless thread. Go ahead and use your pathetic CR and RR. I started using the Duvolle Assault rifle and omg It melts dropsuits instantly. The CR and RR don't stand a chance = I must be really good since I went 25 and 3 = >:) Then got hate mail saying its OP and I'm HTFU butt hurt fool. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! Die YOU SHADOW BEING IN THE DARK!!!
Golden Day Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1590	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:35:00 - [5] - Quote I use the breach ar I cant stand using the Arr or RR in CQC the hip fire is stupid...... Plus I use the breach ar on my cal scout cuz cal and gal use hybrid weapons so... Lore fitz FOR THE STATE!
Songs of Seraphim Negative-Feedback 621	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:35:00 - [6] - Quote Aim-down sights more often. It's a pretty good gun, and does hefty damage to all the FotM suits (Minmatar). P.S. Kirk will probably have something to say. Caldari Loyalist Join Caldari FW via Kirjuun Saaja
Petrified Ancient Tree The Iberian Norsemen 40	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:39:00 - [7] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: This gun sucks. It used to be awesome. Being on the receiving end of it... I have to disagree. Nothing cures bad aim like a mass driver...
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18655	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:54:00 - [8] - Quote Practice is what is required. I picked it up the other week and initially hated it. After a few more battles with it I started to really enjoy using it. Just wish it performed better at close range. "MIN MAXING! MIN MAXING! I'M BETTER AT IT THAN YOU!" - Mobius Wyvern
hold that Capital Acquisitions LLC 802	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:55:00 - [9] - Quote you suck, and were never awesome
VAHZZ Arrary of Clusters 1668	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:55:00 - [10] - Quote get good with it, seriously git gud with it. It is not a bad gun, you just suck. Day 1/30 Return to Sniper Scout Blog

Summa Militum TotalAscendancy 381	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:56:00 - [11] - Quote I just played a match with it and I got 10 kills, 15 assists, and 2 deaths. The amount of assists I get with that gun is why I think it sucks. It's either just under-powered enough to prevent me from finishing the job half the time or the rate-of-fire is low enough that too many of my kills or stolen. I think either the range should be increased and the damage stay the same, the damage should be increased and the range stay the same, or both damage and range stay the same and the rate-of-fire increased. I feel like I can perform better (in terms of delivering damage to the enemy) at a distance with the Breach Assault Rifle than I can the Regular Assault Rifle and I feel it should be the other way around.
Summa Militum TotalAscendancy 381	Posted - 2015.05.01 02:58:00 - [12] - Quote VAHZZ wrote: get good with it, seriously git gud with it. It is not a bad gun, you just suck. I am pretty sure I don't suck at this game.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18655	Posted - 2015.05.01 03:01:00 - [13] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: VAHZZ wrote: get good with it, seriously git gud with it. It is not a bad gun, you just suck. I am pretty sure I don't suck at this game. I dunno I think I've killed you at least once in two and half years. Everyone who I have killed is an uber scrub. "MIN MAXING! MIN MAXING! I'M BETTER AT IT THAN YOU!" - Mobius Wyvern
Summa Militum TotalAscendancy 381	Posted - 2015.05.01 03:07:00 - [14] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Summa Militum wrote: VAHZZ wrote: get good with it, seriously git gud with it. It is not a bad gun, you just suck. I am pretty sure I don't suck at this game. I dunno I think I've killed you at least once in two and half years. Everyone who I have killed is an uber scrub. Well those are some pretty high standards you are holding people up to.
VAHZZ Arrary of Clusters 1672	Posted - 2015.05.01 03:07:00 - [15] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Summa Militum wrote: VAHZZ wrote: get good with it, seriously git gud with it. It is not a bad gun, you just suck. I am pretty sure I don't suck at this game. I dunno I think I've killed you at least once in two and half years. Everyone who I have killed is an uber scrub. Thank god I'm not an uber scrub. You will never kill me True! And yes, Summa, You suck at that gun, never said the game. Day 1/30 Return to Sniper Scout Blog
Void Echo Helix Order Learning Alliance 2779	Posted - 2015.05.01 03:07:00 - [16] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Summa Militum wrote: VAHZZ wrote: get good with it, seriously git gud with it. It is not a bad gun, you just suck. I am pretty sure I don't suck at this game. I dunno I think I've killed you at least once in two and half years. Everyone who I have killed is an uber scrub. OOOOOOOOO NO HE DIDNT!!!! Closed Beta Vet. CEO: Helix Order. I have the controlled anger, more dangerous than you.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18656	Posted - 2015.05.01 03:25:00 - [17] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: True Adamance wrote: Summa Militum wrote: VAHZZ wrote: get good with it, seriously git gud with it. It is not a bad gun, you just suck. I am pretty sure I don't suck at this game. I dunno I think I've killed you at least once in two and half years. Everyone who I have killed is an uber scrub. Well those are some pretty high standards you are holding people up to. Or low ones I hold myself to. "MIN MAXING! MIN MAXING! I'M BETTER AT IT THAN YOU!" - Mobius Wyvern
Cody Sietz Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 4508	Posted - 2015.05.01 03:29:00 - [18] - Quote Songs of Seraphim wrote: Aim-down sights more often. It's a pretty good gun, and does hefty damage to all the FotM suits (Minmatar). P.S. Kirk will probably have something to say. AR? Aim down sights? Blasphemy! "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Summa Militum TotalAscendancy 381	Posted - 2015.05.01 03:33:00 - [19] - Quote JIMvc2 wrote: Another pointless thread. Go ahead and use your pathetic CR and RR. I started using the Duvolle Assault rifle and omg It melts dropsuits instantly. The CR and RR don't stand a chance = I must be really good since I went 25 and 3 = >:) Then got hate mail saying its OP and I'm HTFU butt hurt fool. You got emotional real fast.
SLENDER M4N Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 197	Posted - 2015.05.01 03:50:00 - [20] - Quote I got my Plasma Rifles almost maxed out. I have everything at lvl 4 and there is a significant amount of "UP" when I use it. Try the other varients. The Burst does really well and the Breach is ok. We need more Plasma rifle users! KainNoBueno Praise our Lord and Savior (º-º)/

Jonny D Buelle Mors Effera 1218	Posted - 2015.05.01 03:54:00 - [21] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Summa Militum wrote: VAHZZ wrote: get good with it, seriously git gud with it. It is not a bad gun, you just suck. I am pretty sure I don't suck at this game. I dunno I think I've killed you at least once in two and half years. Everyone who I have killed is an uber scrub. You sir have insulted my honor! I challenge you to a duel! removes Sentinel Gauntlent and slaps True's tank with it I find your lack of heaviness... disturbing...
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18656	Posted - 2015.05.01 03:55:00 - [22] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Songs of Seraphim wrote: Aim-down sights more often. It's a pretty good gun, and does hefty damage to all the FotM suits (Minmatar). P.S. Kirk will probably have something to say. AR? Aim down sights? Blasphemy! If they're within 25m I wouldn't normally bother but beyond that I like feathering the trigger and people die fast. "MIN MAXING! MIN MAXING! I'M BETTER AT IT THAN YOU!" - Mobius Wyvern
Seed Dren Helix Order Learning Alliance 183	Posted - 2015.05.01 04:34:00 - [23] - Quote You shall all us my Assault Rifle in my honor. PRAISE THE DREN!!!! Amarr assualt + shotgun + hellfire= illuminati confirmed
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10509	Posted - 2015.05.01 05:34:00 - [24] - Quote Nah Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 23673	Posted - 2015.05.01 06:06:00 - [25] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: True Adamance wrote: Summa Militum wrote: VAHZZ wrote: get good with it, seriously git gud with it. It is not a bad gun, you just suck. I am pretty sure I don't suck at this game. I dunno I think I've killed you at least once in two and half years. Everyone who I have killed is an uber scrub. Well those are some pretty high standards you are holding people up to. By his standards, I am not a scrub. Supreme Forum Warrior Gallente Guide
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 16278	Posted - 2015.05.01 06:55:00 - [26] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Nah https://i.imgur.com/pLnZewE.jpg Ripley: "I sexually identify as a cappuccino machine." Cat: "That's my fetish" Ripley: Steams milk seductively
nelo kazuma THE LAST H0PE. RUST415 144	Posted - 2015.05.01 07:07:00 - [27] - Quote Your complaining about a shield based weapon not doing enough armor damage -_- that things rips through cal and min easily of course against amar n gallente which are primary suits atm arent gonna be affected as much by it
DozersMouse XIII Nos Nothi 1056	Posted - 2015.05.01 08:24:00 - [28] - Quote Feather the trigger with rhythm and you will see it's beautiful potential Shotgun me once, shame on me Shotgun me twice, scans on you
Yeeeuuuupppp 1019	Posted - 2015.05.01 11:21:00 - [29] - Quote Why use duvolle anyways? I have 150 pyrus allotek assault rifles just from daily missions.. Git gud, Git proficiency 5 *Sheeba Sheeba* PSN: GMANCASH "I played Dust so long i grew a f--king afro"

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 21645	Posted - 2015.05.01 11:35:00 - [30] - Quote It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 624	Posted - 2015.05.01 11:41:00 - [31] - Quote Bruh... DozersMouse XIII wrote: Feather the trigger with rhythm and you will see it's beautiful potential Lol I have a dirty mind. Saying what's on people's minds
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2924	Posted - 2015.05.01 11:45:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I've always felt that magazine size is a bit weird on ARs (ie it ends at odd times) and that a big part of their problem is range. Maybe go back to some of the old weapon feedback threads as they had a lot of in-depth analysis and slightly tune up where it's missing? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
cris bleu Carbon 7 139	Posted - 2015.05.01 11:47:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Reflex sight.( Or damage or rof if that's easier)
Seed Dren Helix Order Learning Alliance 185	Posted - 2015.05.01 11:50:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Damage is fine, is the range. IMO some assume is ok because is intended range is for mid range to short but what ppl fail to realize is that not evryone has the sp to skill into another mid to long range weapon to counter say rail rifles or lasers. That's where the disparity happens. Me personally am ok with it because I have weapons to counter rails and lasers. But I have the sp to do it. And how a lot of maps are set up they favor those weapons. so it becomes a who has the best mid to long range weapon. Amarr assualt + shotgun + hellfire= illuminati confirmed
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8325	Posted - 2015.05.01 11:50:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I have a few. But it's mostly a rough idea based on bringing similar classes of weapon closer together performance-wise. IE breach weapons perform similarly, assaults perform similarly, bursts, et al. What buffs would you consider unreasonable? Honestly I personally would like to see ranges pushed outward 10-20m optimal on most battle rifles given the framerate improvements. Generally where the gallente rifles fail is purely reach. They can get chopped too easily by distant opponents. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Vapor Forseti Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1866	Posted - 2015.05.01 11:58:00 - [36] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Nah /endofthread le fix So sexy, she'll pass out.
Seed Dren Helix Order Learning Alliance 185	Posted - 2015.05.01 11:59:00 - [37] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I have a few. But it's mostly a rough idea based on bringing similar classes of weapon closer together performance-wise. IE breach weapons perform similarly, assaults perform similarly, bursts, et al. What buffs would you consider unreasonable? Honestly I personally would like to see ranges pushed outward 10-20m optimal on most battle rifles given the framerate improvements. Generally where the gallente rifles fail is purely reach. They can get chopped too easily by distant opponents. Is funny how you and me posted around the same time sa to no the same thing. RANGE is the issue. But I'm sure someone will say leave as is I wanna kill you without you having the chance to kill me At long range, just because lore or because it was decided so. fair is fair right? Amarr assualt + shotgun + hellfire= illuminati confirmed
ReGnYuM Carne Con Papas 3687	Posted - 2015.05.01 12:06:00 - [38] - Quote Can the gun kill people... Sure. Is it competitive when paired up against the RR CR and ScR... no. The standard variant just has too many problems meta and fitting. Reserved for l8tr detail
Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 345	Posted - 2015.05.01 12:08:00 - [39] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: I just played a match with it and I got 10 kills, 15 assists, and 2 deaths. The amount of assists I get with that gun is why I think it sucks. It's either just under-powered enough to prevent me from finishing the job half the time or the rate-of-fire is low enough that too many of my kills or stolen. I agree, itGÇÖs an assist machine and thatGÇÖs what makes it particularly frustrating. ItGÇÖs a good gun, it does decent damage, the range can be dealt with but them assistsGÇª =ƒÿ¦
Seed Dren Helix Order Learning Alliance 185	Posted - 2015.05.01 12:08:00 - [40] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Can the gun kill people... Sure. Is it competitive when paired up against the RR CR and ScR... no. The standard variant just has too many problems meta and fitting. Reserved for l8tr detail Never tought I'll give u a like. It must be a different world. But your right. Amarr assualt + shotgun + hellfire= illuminati confirmed

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1148	Posted - 2015.05.01 12:14:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I think it's waiting for the armor-meta to pass (nudge nudge). We can't balance all 4 racial rifles on their performance against armor. Well, we can, but it won't make the game any better.
ROMULUS H3X research lab 511	Posted - 2015.05.01 12:22:00 - [42] - Quote How can a rifle suck? ANY of the rifles can kill any oppenent in less than 2.5 seconds... the only thing that changes is how you approach EACH AND EVERY fight. I'd blame the player before the rifle personally. It's not the weapon the makes the clone. Make your Clone into the Weapon, everything else is just a tool. ENOUGH WITH THE RIFLE BUFF/NERF CYCLE Get good with what you got, and deal with it. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Seed Dren Helix Order Learning Alliance 186	Posted - 2015.05.01 12:40:00 - [43] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: How can a rifle suck? ANY of the rifles can kill any oppenent in less than 2.5 seconds... the only thing that changes is how you approach EACH AND EVERY fight. I'd blame the player before the rifle personally. It's not the weapon the makes the clone. Make your Clone into the Weapon, everything else is just a tool. ENOUGH WITH THE RIFLE BUFF/NERF CYCLE Get good with what you got, and deal with it. I called it. Amarr assualt + shotgun + hellfire= illuminati confirmed
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1273	Posted - 2015.05.01 12:43:00 - [44] - Quote It a great gun what you talkin about! Messed up thing is not that gun, but the fact the other rifles can do near the same thing in CQC ...while being able to light you up from afar unlike the duvolle AR :\ that thing shreds suits though
Archduke Ferd1nand Nos Nothi 399	Posted - 2015.05.01 12:45:00 - [45] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: VAHZZ wrote: get good with it, seriously git gud with it. It is not a bad gun, you just suck. I am pretty sure I don't suck at this game. IDK... I killed you yesterday after you SGed me from behind in my AV suit with a basic BrSMG.... And I also just came back from a prolonged break JK you're not horrible, and at least you don't camp with an Amarr Assault that AFAIK so i don't hate you. BRB, looking for socks PSN: tommygunboy2080 I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
Archduke Ferd1nand Nos Nothi 399	Posted - 2015.05.01 12:47:00 - [46] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Make shields viable? BRB, looking for socks PSN: tommygunboy2080 I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1273	Posted - 2015.05.01 12:48:00 - [47] - Quote cris bleu wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Reflex sight.( Or damage or rof if that's easier) I was one of the peopel that raged when they gave them iron sights , lol.. I got used to eventually, now I like it.
Archduke Ferd1nand Nos Nothi 401	Posted - 2015.05.01 12:52:00 - [48] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I think it's waiting for the armor-meta to pass (nudge nudge). We can't balance all 4 racial rifles on their performance against armor. Well, we can, but it won't make the game any better. "Yes we can. Look at the AScR!" --CCP Rattati BRB, looking for socks PSN: tommygunboy2080 I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
itssnowingon me Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 16	Posted - 2015.05.01 12:58:00 - [49] - Quote The Randge needs a little buff so the falloff isn't so bad
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9344	Posted - 2015.05.01 13:05:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Smart ideas? Idea: indirect, relative improvements The AR is not bad, but it is less good than scrambler, combat and rail rifles. It is less good than ScR because ScR is OP. It is less good than CR and RR because brick is still king. * Gently nerf the ScR * Increase mobility/strafe penalties for plates and reactives * Add mobility/strafe penalties to ferros * Consider adding a "gravity" penalty to plates * Consider lessened plate penalty effects on Heavy Frames (including Commandos) * Consider increased plate penalty effects on Light Frames Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

JAKE REDBLOOD Dead Man's Game RUST415 66	Posted - 2015.05.01 13:06:00 - [51] - Quote Tbh, I thick the range is about right, after all it is a blaster weapon... I would tweak the damage profile against armor ever so slightly... By slightly I don't mean like the ScR, just a few extra percent ;) My YouTube Channel
Tweaksz Titans of Phoenix RUST415 212	Posted - 2015.05.01 13:11:00 - [52] - Quote I for one am die hard Gallente and can attest to the Standard Variant Ar's, not UPness, but mediocrity in it's own field. Frankly any other assault variant ACR ASCR and ARR can be equally as effective at the short to mid range fights. The ar doesn't require range, please note that this is purely my opinion feel free to call me crazy, the ar needs to be shrekking people at close ranges which is its niche. It should not and let me emphasize SHOULD NOT have more range. This is the main reason why I use the Burst ar as it can put out more dps (rof) in that same range save for a few meters. Pill Popping Madness!
Scheneighnay McBob And the ButtPirates 6351	Posted - 2015.05.01 13:38:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I say give it a bigger mag size, and more damage. People are complaining about range, but it IS a gallente weapon. Some details can be ignored
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10518	Posted - 2015.05.01 13:42:00 - [54] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I've always felt that magazine size is a bit weird on ARs (ie it ends at odd times) and that a big part of their problem is range. Maybe go back to some of the old weapon feedback threads as they had a lot of in-depth analysis and slightly tune up where it's missing? I can tell you exactly what I complained about back then compared to now. But that solution may not be the one we need now with the direction DUST went. Back then when the rifle was close to balance the only issue with it was that the Combat Rifle and Rail rifle that were just recently introduced were incredibly OP. Like, it wasn't even funny how OP those weapons were when they came out. Due to this absolute rifle wreckage CCP decided to increase ttk of all rifles by reducing damage by 10% (even the ones that were barely struggling as it to survive like the vanilla AR and every other AR besides the TAR) this caused the setting of the stage we have now with balance between the rifles which caused Rattati to come in and say, "these Gallente Rifles aren't quite there" when he came into control. Is increasing damage the step we need now however? I dont feel like it with the vanilla AR. I think the vanilla rifle is fine as is. The TTK is healthy (My TTK is lower because of warbarge and Damage mods) and should be left alone if we are going to avoid going back to the low ttk we had a while back. The problem I feel lies with the other rifles. Take the basic Assault Rail Rifles, they are pretty much perfect right now. Could use some tuning and bug fixes but next to vanilla AR its about the most non-OP weapon we have. After that you've got The assault rail rifle that performs way too well in the vanilla ARs space. Both combat rifle performs to well in its place, and the scrambler already needs looking at as we now. The issue is other weapons being a bit to good in the range the AR is supposed to be good at. What's the point of sacrificing some range if a weapon that has considerably more range and can perform just as well? The combat rifles issue is fine for the most part, its supposed to do what it does but it can get too big of a clip with the assault bonus that allows it to step in AR territory easily being more forgiving with missing shots. The Combat Rifle is a weapon of Hit and run. Deal as much damage as you can, then run like hell. Which is was introduced as such. The bonus allows you to become too much of a standing brawler (AR territory) and less of an ambusher (supposed to be combat rifle) I'd like to say more but I've got to get ready for a date. If the threw still active ill post the rest of my long thoughts on the rifles Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Mahal Daj Mahal Tactical Enterprises 148	Posted - 2015.05.01 13:49:00 - [55] - Quote cris bleu wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Reflex sight.( Or damage or rof if that's easier) A relfex site, or even just making the 'metal' parts of the duvolle site 50% transparent would be awesome. See my Post on Crashes: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2413361#post2413361
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4544	Posted - 2015.05.01 13:53:00 - [56] - Quote Some range would be good, fight against HMG sentinels with AR withing HMG range is a suicide. Shaman's Shack - A place to trade
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2926	Posted - 2015.05.01 13:59:00 - [57] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I've always felt that magazine size is a bit weird on ARs (ie it ends at odd times) and that a big part of their problem is range. Maybe go back to some of the old weapon feedback threads as they had a lot of in-depth analysis and slightly tune up where it's missing? I can tell you exactly what I complained about back then compared to now. But that solution may not be the one we need now with the direction DUST went. Back then when the rifle was close to balance the only issue with it was that the Combat Rifle and Rail rifle that were just recently introduced were incredibly OP. Like, it wasn't even funny how OP those weapons were when they came out. Due to this absolute rifle wreckage CCP decided to increase ttk of all rifles by reducing damage by 10% (even the ones that were barely struggling as it to survive like the vanilla AR and every other AR besides the TAR) this caused the setting of the stage we have now with balance between the rifles which caused Rattati to come in and say, "these Gallente Rifles aren't quite there" when he came into control. Is increasing damage the step we need now however? I dont feel like it with the vanilla AR. I think the vanilla rifle is fine as is. The TTK is healthy (My TTK is lower because of warbarge and Damage mods) and should be left alone if we are going to avoid going back to the low ttk we had a while back. The problem I feel lies with the other rifles. Take the basic Assault Rail Rifles, they are pretty much perfect right now. Could use some tuning and bug fixes but next to vanilla AR its about the most non-OP weapon we have. After that you've got The assault rail rifle that performs way too well in the vanilla ARs space. Both combat rifle performs to well in its place, and the scrambler already needs looking at as we now. The issue is other weapons being a bit to good in the range the AR is supposed to be good at. What's the point of sacrificing some range if a weapon that has considerably more range and can perform just as well? The combat rifles issue is fine for the most part, its supposed to do what it does but it can get too big of a clip with the assault bonus that allows it to step in AR territory easily being more forgiving with missing shots. The Combat Rifle is a weapon of Hit and run. Deal as much damage as you can, then run like hell. Which is was introduced as such. The bonus allows you to become too much of a standing brawler (AR territory) and less of an ambusher (supposed to be combat rifle) I'd like to say more but I've got to get ready for a date. If the threw still active ill post the rest of my long thoughts on the rifles Oh, I'll certainly agree that the ~80% range the ARR gets over the AR for the loss of what, 60-80dps really harms the AR's useage. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3424	Posted - 2015.05.01 14:19:00 - [58] - Quote I remember killing CCP Saberwing a few times with one of those... ahh the good old days Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? SCV Ready!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8326	Posted - 2015.05.01 14:27:00 - [59] - Quote Serious suggestion: Normalize the variants. Realistically all of the battle rifles perform the same function. There is little reason why there should be humongous range/base DPS variation between an assault rifle and an ACR. The profiles exist and affect the damage they do, keeping each rifle from having that call of duty "all guns are relreally the same" feeling. For example: if we normalized all rifles to 450 base dps without thr profiles and 60m the profiles alone will create variance. Then we take the racial thematics and apply them. We'll use the assault scram as out baseline 450/60m without profile. Caldari are our long range punks. So we'll reach the ARR to 70m. But it pays for that reach at a rate of 1% DPS per meter. The ARR base DPS ends at 405 DPS. ok minmatar is next, they're known for some decent range so we push them to 65, and their base DPS kisses 427.5 base DPS. Then there's the gallente, our house knife fighters. We're going to tell them they suck and drop them to 50m. But they'll gain 10% base DPS. So pre-profile the assault plasma rifle will be rocking 495 DPS. Now add your profiles and damage mods. Does this have to be how it's done exactly? No. It's an example, but the DUST rifles lack a logical, consistent progression. And I don't think we can balance the scramblers for shields if we keep buffing them to tackle armor equally with the rail rifle and combat rifle. The system breaks. But my suggestion: Assault 450 DPS/60m optimal Burst 435 DPS/70m optimal Breach 425 DPS/80m optimal Tac 410 DPS/90m optimal Set a baseline and revolve the racial weapons around said baseline in a logical and consistent manner. The battle rifles of each race are built to do the same thing: general-purpose primary weapon. There is little reason why their performance overall should be inconsistent and wildly varied. Odd behavior and inconsistency of damage application Is the purview of racial specialist and support weapons. The rifles should be roughly equal. The hybrids should be the most balanced, the CR line should be an inferior option vs. Shields and the lasers should be inferior to armor. If there inis no clear winner in the battle rifles for "best in game" a lot of undesirable metagame habits get cleared up And pushed off a cliff, making preferred playstyle and actively countering the enemy the meta rather than "use the scrambler, it melts everything And is OP vs. Shields." There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Denchlad 7 The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2192	Posted - 2015.05.01 14:28:00 - [60] - Quote Its just very meh. Its alright, but even with Prof V I'll take the CR any day. The TAR and BuAR are in a good place. BrAR...hard to tell, havent seen it used much since it was OP as hell. The AR just lacks the oomph personally. I'd like more range though. I'm 98% likely to better than you at using any gun. Dench's Emporium of Everything! coming soon...

Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 7272	Posted - 2015.05.01 14:35:00 - [61] - Quote My light weapon of choice. Git gud.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1015	Posted - 2015.05.01 15:24:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? what. the. ****. when you will address the excessive kick on the rail rifle?
Genral69 death Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 208	Posted - 2015.05.01 15:32:00 - [63] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Maybe I slight increase in fire rate and of that turns out to much lower the damage slightly. Yes it kill people fleeing but struggles massive with cqc compared to the combat. Also please add a sight for the damn thing I can't stand the iron sight General limited: warming failure to pay, may lead to death,massive amount of pain or even lose of family. Since 1995
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10525	Posted - 2015.05.01 15:43:00 - [64] - Quote Genral69 death wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Maybe I slight increase in fire rate and of that turns out to much lower the damage slightly. Yes it kill people fleeing but struggles massive with cqc compared to the combat. Also please add a sight for the damn thing I can't stand the iron sight If we were going the direction of just buffing the Rifle then RoF is where you'd do it. The vanilla weapon does not need a damage buff or range buff. It would be able to champion over the other assault variants in its preferred area with a RoF, I just didn't want to go the direction of quicker TTK. A RoF bonus also might make the Gallente Assault Bonus somewhat more useful but I doubt it. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Genral69 death Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 208	Posted - 2015.05.01 15:44:00 - [65] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Genral69 death wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Maybe I slight increase in fire rate and of that turns out to much lower the damage slightly. Yes it kill people fleeing but struggles massive with cqc compared to the combat. Also please add a sight for the damn thing I can't stand the iron sight If we were going the direction of just buffing the Rifle then RoF is where you'd do it. The vanilla weapon does not need a damage buff or range buff. It would be able to champion over the other assault variants in its preferred area with a RoF, I just didn't want to go the direction of quicker TTK. A RoF bonus also might make the Gallente Assault Bonus somewhat more useful but I doubt it. Agreed. Didn't even consider the bonus General limited: warming failure to pay, may lead to death,massive amount of pain or even lose of family. Since 1995
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 89	Posted - 2015.05.01 15:47:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? decrease optimal range 10%, increase output damage 10%. Gallente weapons are supposed to be the best at CQC. This might be a start? CEO / Art.of.Death
REDBACK96USMC To Test Tickles 154	Posted - 2015.05.01 15:58:00 - [67] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: I just played a match with it and I got 10 kills, 15 assists, and 2 deaths. The amount of assists I get with that gun is why I think it sucks. It's either just under-powered enough to prevent me from finishing the job half the time or the rate-of-fire is low enough that too many of my kills or stolen. I think either the range should be increased and the damage stay the same, the damage should be increased and the range stay the same, or both damage and range stay the same and the rate-of-fire increased. I feel like I can perform better (in terms of delivering damage to the enemy) at a distance with the Breach Assault Rifle than I can the Regular Assault Rifle and I feel it should be the other way around. I remember running across you yesterday. You like to hang back a lot and the Assault Rifle is not for Hanging back. It is made for Mid Range to close combat. Try the tactical variant for range or a different weapon type such as the RR. Part of this game is learning what eveyrthing does and what its purpose is.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8326	Posted - 2015.05.01 16:05:00 - [68] - Quote Mr.Pepe Le Pew wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? decrease optimal range 10%, increase output damage 10%. Gallente weapons are supposed to be the best at CQC. This might be a start? Worst idea so far There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. RUST415 3732	Posted - 2015.05.01 16:14:00 - [69] - Quote The AR is still plenty powerful. The problem, if there is one, is that few people run shields -- which is where this weapon shines. IMO, the shield/armor balance continues to be in favor of armor, and thus the overall effectiveness of the shield based weapons like the AR continues to lag. That and the AScR is even better when it comes to eating shields.
Void Echo Helix Order Learning Alliance 2783	Posted - 2015.05.01 16:15:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Increase the dps by 3 points and it be good to go, since I've returned I have always been cheated out of kills because it doesn't do enough damage. It also take a full clip to kill a std heavy. Closed Beta Vet. CEO: Helix Order. I have the controlled anger, more dangerous than you.

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9352	Posted - 2015.05.01 16:21:00 - [71] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: A RoF bonus also might make the Gallente Assault Bonus somewhat more useful ... I'd support this. I'd also support a spool-up and/or kick reduction as the Cal Assault bonus. Assault bonuses should be slay-oriented, as is presently the case with MN and AM. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Meisterjager Jagermeister 914	Posted - 2015.05.01 16:37:00 - [72] - Quote Two suggestions that would help make the most of the AR's short range: -Increase optimal range without extending overall range -Decrease damage falloff past optimal range Another suggestion that would have PLAYER GUNGAME improve performance rather than weapon tweaks - Put the scope back on the AR and Breach AR without increasing ADS zoom AKA - StarVenger- Horizons' Edge
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 590	Posted - 2015.05.01 16:57:00 - [73] - Quote Honestly, I'd suggest reducing ROF and increasing damage to make DPS the same (or better) then increase magazine capacity. This means it would be amazing at CQC brawling as you could get so much damage out before having to stop and reload. We want cake and tea.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game RUST415 805	Posted - 2015.05.01 16:59:00 - [74] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I propose increasing damage, just like you did for the assault scrambler rifle. Don't increase range, it's supposed to be a short range weapon. Increasing rate of fire would have a similar effect, but increases dps without increasing magazine damage. I don't know what Sgt Kirk is talking about, increasing rate of fire would obviously lower ttk. I personally like the current rate of fire, feels nice. It already got increased once, and affects the feel of the weapon. Combat rifles are distinct by having high rate of fire, we don't want to make plasma ARs too similar. I guess a small rate of fire increase would be ok if you didn't want to increase damage.
Cyrus Grevare WarRavens 463	Posted - 2015.05.01 17:19:00 - [75] - Quote Quick stats @ Advanced Tier for Assault variants ( [x] value including level 5 proficiency ): AR Optimal Range 40m Rate of Fire 800 RPM Base Damage 32.45 HP Base DPS 432.6 HP Dmg per Clip 2271.15 HP Base vs Shields35.69 [41.04] HP DPS vs Shields 475.86 [547] HP/s Base vs Armor 29.2 HP DPS vs Armor 389.34 HP AScR Optimal Range: 52m Rate of Fire 705.88 RPM Base Damage 34.7 HP Base DPS 408.23 HP Dmg per Clip 2498.4 HP Base vs Shields 41.64 [47.89] HP DPS vs Shields 489.88 [563] HP/s Base vs Armor 27.76 HP DPS vs Armor 326.59 HP/s CR Optimal Range: 51m Rate of Fire 1200 RPM Base Damage 20.84 HP Base DPS 416.74 HP Dmg per Clip 1416.92 HP Base vs Shields 17.71 HP DPS vs Shields 354.23 HP/s Base vs Armor 23.96 [27.56] HP DPS vs Armor 479.25 [551.14] HP/s ARR Optimal Range: 72m Rate of Fire 600 RPM Base Damage 40 HP Base DPS 400 HP Dmg per Clip 2320 HP Base vs Shields 36 HP DPS vs Shields 360 HP/s Base vs Armor 44 [50.6] HP DPS vs Armor 440 [506] HP/s Observations: * Even though the AR has a larger clip size than before, AScR and RR still have more damage per clip. * Optimal range is painfully low, 11m behind the next rifle, 32! behind the ARR * Recent AScR changes completely outclass the AR in every aspect that counts * IMO Assault bonuses for Mn and Am put their respective rifles completely in another tier of power. Disclaimer: Optimal range was read in game, stats based on last CCP released SDE + some adjustments to match in game data. www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 2760	Posted - 2015.05.01 17:22:00 - [76] - Quote The AR needs to be second only to the HMG when up close and personal. It has neither the range or DPS of the RR and CR but at ranges of less than 35 to 40 metres it should be cutting through everything other than an armour tanked heavy in less than a clip. just my opinion as a two and half year vet of AR use. CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2927	Posted - 2015.05.01 17:33:00 - [77] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Genral69 death wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Maybe I slight increase in fire rate and of that turns out to much lower the damage slightly. Yes it kill people fleeing but struggles massive with cqc compared to the combat. Also please add a sight for the damn thing I can't stand the iron sight If we were going the direction of just buffing the Rifle then RoF is where you'd do it. The vanilla weapon does not need a damage buff or range buff. It would be able to champion over the other assault variants in its preferred area with a RoF, I just didn't want to go the direction of quicker TTK. A RoF bonus also might make the Gallente Assault Bonus somewhat more useful but I doubt it. No, absolutely no RoF or range bonuses on assaults. You already have an amazing performance bonus, you do not nor should you ever have a bonus that strictly makes your suits better in terms of TTK. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 281	Posted - 2015.05.01 17:34:00 - [78] - Quote I played a few matches yesterday in a Skinweave MLT suit with pure MLT mods and an Exile AR with Toxin SMG. Ooooh so 2012 of me I know. After a year of running rail-tech, I felt like a CQC god... Just sayin. "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9877	Posted - 2015.05.01 17:52:00 - [79] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Half decent Assault bonuses would be a good start. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10526	Posted - 2015.05.01 17:55:00 - [80] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Genral69 death wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Maybe I slight increase in fire rate and of that turns out to much lower the damage slightly. Yes it kill people fleeing but struggles massive with cqc compared to the combat. Also please add a sight for the damn thing I can't stand the iron sight If we were going the direction of just buffing the Rifle then RoF is where you'd do it. The vanilla weapon does not need a damage buff or range buff. It would be able to champion over the other assault variants in its preferred area with a RoF, I just didn't want to go the direction of quicker TTK. A RoF bonus also might make the Gallente Assault Bonus somewhat more useful but I doubt it. No, absolutely no RoF or range bonuses on assaults. You already have an amazing performance bonus, you do not nor should you ever have a bonus that strictly makes your suits better in terms of TTK. That's why I'd rather go the direction of tuning the other rifles down out of AR territory. That's why I said twice in this thread that I want to avoid lessening TTK. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel

Cody Sietz Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 4512	Posted - 2015.05.01 18:02:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I think it comes down to all other rifles performing as good or sometimes better in the ARs intended range of CQC. I think we have balance for the most part with rifles, but the AR is the only one with a hard cap on how well in can do outside of its intended role and range. Couple that with people abusing turbo controllers and you get a rifle that is working fine but is just not always worth using over the others. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9877	Posted - 2015.05.01 18:05:00 - [82] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Idea: indirect, relative improvements The AR is not bad, but it is less good than scrambler, combat and rail rifles. It is less good than ScR because ScR is OP. It is less good than CR and RR because brick is still king. * Gently nerf the ScR * Increase mobility/strafe penalties for plates and reactives * Add mobility/strafe penalties to ferros * Consider adding a "gravity" penalty to plates which counteract myofibs * Consider lessened plate penalty effects on Heavy Frames (including Commandos) * Consider increased plate penalty effects on Light Frames So, buff the AR by nerfing the ** out of Armor. You've been on an anti-armor and 'inertia' kick for a long time now and I don't see this as anything other than pressing your agenda on the side-bar, using the AR as your plug CCP Rattati wrote:** It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I mean, in all honesty you need to take a hard look at what it's competing against. CQC: You have Shotguns which have alpha so high that the AR can't apply enough DPS for it to matter. HMGs were stupidly OP against an AR but that's been knocked down a bit that it's manageable - hell I'd even say it's perfectly tuned. Mid-range: CRs will win. Hands down. The fire rate of the Combat Rifle is extreme and anyone with half a brain for accuracy and a quick trigger finger will out-DPS the AR any day of the week. ACR isn't as bad because the fire-rate is controlled with a set DPS but it's optimal is much farther out. Point in case: http://i.imgur.com/6olEWwF.png ASCRs got a hefty damage buff so they're competitive against an AR and their use has sky-rocketed. SCRs were good to begin with. ARR has far higher optimal range for about the same DPS. Sure the recoil is extreme but you only have to deal with that a good ways into the magazine if you just control your bursts (which you should be doing anyway barring you miss). Long-range: What, you want a lengthy explanation? Optimal range, yo! Thoughts: I mean, you could buff the damage but then the AR starts to intrude on the other rifles out at longer ranges because any buff to damage is essentially a buff to range and vice versa. Dispersion is good, recoil is fantastic, it just can't compete out at longer ranges, which is fine. The issue is that the DPS threshold between the weapons is too close. Why sacrifice 30m of optimal range when I can sacrifice 30 DPS and make up for it with a Complex Damage Mod or even Proficiency in the weapon I'm using? Your best bet is a module that increases optimal range so that we can throw a few of those on and make up for the difference so that we can counter our weakness like the other rifles can with their damage. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8331	Posted - 2015.05.01 18:31:00 - [83] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: You already have an amazing performance bonus, you do not nor should you ever have a bonus that strictly makes your suits better in terms of TTK. Gallente assaults and calassaults have awesome bonuses? WHERE??? There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8331	Posted - 2015.05.01 18:32:00 - [84] - Quote on a more serious note: Rifles need to be normalized There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 794	Posted - 2015.05.01 18:39:00 - [85] - Quote The main difference between the AR and the ACR is rof and range, and the fact that the ACR has more of both and is a killing machine leads me to believe that those two qualities are what the AR lacks to make it really good. Give it 15m extra optimal and a rof of 900 and that gun is golden. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9362	Posted - 2015.05.01 18:57:00 - [86] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Idea: indirect, relative improvements The AR is not bad, but it is less good than scrambler, combat and rail rifles. It is less good than ScR because ScR is OP. It is less good than CR and RR because brick is still king. * Gently nerf the ScR * Increase mobility/strafe penalties for plates and reactives * Add mobility/strafe penalties to ferros * Consider adding a "gravity" penalty to plates which counteract myofibs * Consider lessened plate penalty effects on Heavy Frames (including Commandos) * Consider increased plate penalty effects on Light Frames So, buff the AR by nerfing the **** out of Armor. You've been on an anti-armor and 'inertia' kick for a long time now and I don't see this as anything other than pressing your agenda on the side-bar, using the AR as your plug Anti King HP. Pro variety. We're halfway there. Rattati has achieved high slot diversity. Shields are still very popular, but Precision Enhancers, Damage Amps and now Myofibs are all consistently appearing in the Top 10. What of low slot diversity? Which low slot modules rival brick-related modules? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 540	Posted - 2015.05.01 19:09:00 - [87] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? RoF increase by 10%, 5 shot clip size increase.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5857	Posted - 2015.05.01 19:17:00 - [88] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I don't really like the fact that the weapon is locked to CQC and just the tip of mid-combat range, but still regularly loses to other weapons as well as fast movers in CQC. When paired with a Gal assault it becomes better at that mid range game, but worse in CQC. Faster rate of fire would ensure it more easily shreds fast-movers in CQC. Anything passing through the "stream" of fire is more likely to take damage in that way. Increase rate of fire, increase clip size, decrease damage per shot but work out the math so its overall a slight dps gain. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Indianna Pwns TERRA R1SING 95	Posted - 2015.05.01 19:19:00 - [89] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Serious suggestion: Normalize the variants. Realistically all of the battle rifles perform the same function. There is little reason why there should be humongous range/base DPS variation between an assault rifle and an ACR. The profiles exist and affect the damage they do, keeping each rifle from having that call of duty "all guns are relreally the same" feeling. For example: if we normalized all rifles to 450 base dps without thr profiles and 60m the profiles alone will create variance. Then we take the racial thematics and apply them. We'll use the assault scram as out baseline 450/60m without profile. Caldari are our long range punks. So we'll reach the ARR to 70m. But it pays for that reach at a rate of 1% DPS per meter. The ARR base DPS ends at 405 DPS. ok minmatar is next, they're known for some decent range so we push them to 65, and their base DPS kisses 427.5 base DPS. Then there's the gallente, our house knife fighters. We're going to tell them they suck and drop them to 50m. But they'll gain 10% base DPS. So pre-profile the assault plasma rifle will be rocking 495 DPS. Now add your profiles and damage mods. Does this have to be how it's done exactly? No. It's an example, but the DUST rifles lack a logical, consistent progression. And I don't think we can balance the scramblers for shields if we keep buffing them to tackle armor equally with the rail rifle and combat rifle. The system breaks. But my suggestion: Assault 450 DPS/60m optimal Burst 435 DPS/70m optimal Breach 425 DPS/80m optimal Tac 410 DPS/90m optimal Set a baseline and revolve the racial weapons around said baseline in a logical and consistent manner. The battle rifles of each race are built to do the same thing: general-purpose primary weapon. There is little reason why their performance overall should be inconsistent and wildly varied. Odd behavior and inconsistency of damage application Is the purview of racial specialist and support weapons. The rifles should be roughly equal. The hybrids should be the most balanced, the CR line should be an inferior option vs. Shields and the lasers should be inferior to armor. If there inis no clear winner in the battle rifles for "best in game" a lot of undesirable metagame habits get cleared up And pushed off a cliff, making preferred playstyle and actively countering the enemy the meta rather than "use the scrambler, it melts everything And is OP vs. Shields." I agree, I made a post very similar to this a while back. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2713526#post2713526
PLAYSTTION Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1278	Posted - 2015.05.01 19:24:00 - [90] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: This gun sucks. It used to be awesome. Get sharpshooter level 3 with it and then try it. It makes all the difference. If you likey after that, prof and higher sharpshooter are where to go. Gassault Galogi Galsent `Open Beta Vet - 42 mil sp Director of Corrosive Synergy`

Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9878	Posted - 2015.05.01 19:45:00 - [91] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Idea: indirect, relative improvements The AR is not bad, but it is less good than scrambler, combat and rail rifles. It is less good than ScR because ScR is OP. It is less good than CR and RR because brick is still king. * Gently nerf the ScR * Increase mobility/strafe penalties for plates and reactives * Add mobility/strafe penalties to ferros * Consider adding a "gravity" penalty to plates which counteract myofibs * Consider lessened plate penalty effects on Heavy Frames (including Commandos) * Consider increased plate penalty effects on Light Frames So, buff the AR by nerfing the **** out of Armor. You've been on an anti-armor and 'inertia' kick for a long time now and I don't see this as anything other than pressing your agenda on the side-bar, using the AR as your plug Anti uniformity. Pro variety. We're almost there. High slot module diversity has been achieved. Shields are still very popular, but Precision Enhancers, Damage Amps and now Myofibs are all consistently appearing in the Top 10. But what of low slot module diversity? Which low slot modules presently rival the usage rates of brick-related modules? Classes, suits, primaries, secondaries, equipment, grenades and now high slot modules. All diverse. But what of low slot modules? Guess you forgot about all of the following: Cardiac Regulators (a must when using Myros) Kinetic Catalyzers (even Cat Merc uses these) Profile Dampeners (do I really need to explain this?) To be honest the only ones that aren't really up to par, imo, are shield regulators (because reactive plates are more functional) and code breakers; code breakers being the case because it's just far more functional to use a Minmatar Scout than to try and force another suit to use something it's not good at. That and it's effectively useless for a large portion of game modes. The armor plates are used mostly because - brace yourself - it's part of armor tanking. Which is pretty critical for armor tanking suits. It's easy to call 'diversity' when there's only three different things to put in the high slots (precision enhancers, shield modules, and damage amps) but to say that there's an imbalance because half of the races in this game use armor as their primary defense? Please. This isn't saying that shield tanking isn't subpar - it could probably use a buff - but saying it's because armor is OP is a stretch. Back to ARs now. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9878	Posted - 2015.05.01 19:47:00 - [92] - Quote PLAYSTTION wrote: Summa Militum wrote: This gun sucks. It used to be awesome. Get sharpshooter level 3 with it and then try it. It makes all the difference. If you likey after that, prof and higher sharpshooter are where to go. I have: Operation 5 Proficiency 5 Sharpshooter 5 Rapid Reload 5 Ammo Capacity 5 Fitting Optimization 5 Can tell you now that it doesn't make the Assault Rifle any better and the Gallente Assault Bonus doesn't make it any better either. Weapon is underwhelming in CQC and there's no clear 'I'm going to win' situations like you get with the Rail Rifle at range. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10528	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:04:00 - [93] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: PLAYSTTION wrote: Summa Militum wrote: This gun sucks. It used to be awesome. Get sharpshooter level 3 with it and then try it. It makes all the difference. If you likey after that, prof and higher sharpshooter are where to go. I have: Operation 5 Proficiency 5 Sharpshooter 5 Rapid Reload 5 Ammo Capacity 5 Fitting Optimization 5 Can tell you now that it doesn't make the Assault Rifle any better and the Gallente Assault Bonus doesn't make it any better either. Weapon is underwhelming in CQC and there's no clear 'I'm going to win' situations like you get with the Rail Rifle at range. This is 100% true and I can attest to everything he is saying. Also, to whoever the person that said Gallente and Caldari bonuses were good.... just lol dude. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9367	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:06:00 - [94] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Idea: indirect, relative improvements The AR is not bad, but it is less good than scrambler, combat and rail rifles. It is less good than ScR because ScR is OP. It is less good than CR and RR because brick is still king. * Gently nerf the ScR * Increase mobility/strafe penalties for plates and reactives * Add mobility/strafe penalties to ferros * Consider adding a "gravity" penalty to plates which counteract myofibs * Consider lessened plate penalty effects on Heavy Frames (including Commandos) * Consider increased plate penalty effects on Light Frames So, buff the AR by nerfing the **** out of Armor. You've been on an anti-armor and 'inertia' kick for a long time now and I don't see this as anything other than pressing your agenda on the side-bar, using the AR as your plug Anti uniformity. Pro variety. We're almost there. High slot module diversity has been achieved. Shields are still very popular, but Precision Enhancers, Damage Amps and now Myofibs are all consistently appearing in the Top 10. But what of low slot module diversity? Which low slot modules presently rival the usage rates of brick-related modules? Classes, suits, primaries, secondaries, equipment, grenades and now high slot modules. All diverse. But what of low slot modules? Guess you forgot about all of the following: Cardiac Regulators (a must when using Myros) Kinetic Catalyzers (even Cat Merc uses these) Profile Dampeners (do I really need to explain this?) To be honest the only ones that aren't really up to par, imo, are shield regulators (because reactive plates are more functional) and code breakers; code breakers being the case because it's just far more functional to use a Minmatar Scout than to try and force another suit to use something it's not good at. That and it's effectively useless for a large portion of game modes. The armor plates are used mostly because - brace yourself - it's part of armor tanking. Which is pretty critical for armor tanking suits. It's easy to call 'diversity' when there's only three different things to put in the high slots (precision enhancers, shield modules, and damage amps) but to say that there's an imbalance because half of the races in this game use armor as their primary defense? Please. This isn't saying that shield tanking isn't subpar - it could probably use a buff - but saying it's because armor is OP is a stretch. Back to ARs now. So if I swing by thang.dk this week, do you think I'll see Biotics and EWAR modules the Top 10 lows? Not 9/10 brick or 10/10 brick. Brick performance and brick prevalence have everything to do with AR performance. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9882	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:11:00 - [95] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Idea: indirect, relative improvements The AR is not bad, but it is less good than scrambler, combat and rail rifles. It is less good than ScR because ScR is OP. It is less good than CR and RR because brick is still king. * Gently nerf the ScR * Increase mobility/strafe penalties for plates and reactives * Add mobility/strafe penalties to ferros * Consider adding a "gravity" penalty to plates which counteract myofibs * Consider lessened plate penalty effects on Heavy Frames (including Commandos) * Consider increased plate penalty effects on Light Frames So, buff the AR by nerfing the **** out of Armor. You've been on an anti-armor and 'inertia' kick for a long time now and I don't see this as anything other than pressing your agenda on the side-bar, using the AR as your plug Anti uniformity. Pro variety. We're almost there. High slot module diversity has been achieved. Shields are still very popular, but Precision Enhancers, Damage Amps and now Myofibs are all consistently appearing in the Top 10. But what of low slot module diversity? Which low slot modules presently rival the usage rates of brick-related modules? Classes, suits, primaries, secondaries, equipment, grenades and now high slot modules. All diverse. But what of low slot modules? Guess you forgot about all of the following: Cardiac Regulators (a must when using Myros) Kinetic Catalyzers (even Cat Merc uses these) Profile Dampeners (do I really need to explain this?) To be honest the only ones that aren't really up to par, imo, are shield regulators (because reactive plates are more functional) and code breakers; code breakers being the case because it's just far more functional to use a Minmatar Scout than to try and force another suit to use something it's not good at. That and it's effectively useless for a large portion of game modes. The armor plates are used mostly because - brace yourself - it's part of armor tanking. Which is pretty critical for armor tanking suits. It's easy to call 'diversity' when there's only three different things to put in the high slots (precision enhancers, shield modules, and damage amps) but to say that there's an imbalance because half of the races in this game use armor as their primary defense? Please. This isn't saying that shield tanking isn't subpar - it could probably use a buff - but saying it's because armor is OP is a stretch. Back to ARs now. So if I swing by thang.dk this week, do you think I'll see Biotics and EWAR modules the Top 10 lows? Not 9/10 brick or 10/10 brick. Brick performance and brick prevalence have everything to do with AR performance. "Armor tanking is OP because thang.dk's market data shows a bunch of armor plates being bought on the market" You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9882	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:13:00 - [96] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: PLAYSTTION wrote: Summa Militum wrote: This gun sucks. It used to be awesome. Get sharpshooter level 3 with it and then try it. It makes all the difference. If you likey after that, prof and higher sharpshooter are where to go. I have: Operation 5 Proficiency 5 Sharpshooter 5 Rapid Reload 5 Ammo Capacity 5 Fitting Optimization 5 Can tell you now that it doesn't make the Assault Rifle any better and the Gallente Assault Bonus doesn't make it any better either. Weapon is underwhelming in CQC and there's no clear 'I'm going to win' situations like you get with the Rail Rifle at range. This is 100% true and I can attest to everything he is saying. Also, to whoever the person that said Gallente and Caldari bonuses were good.... just lol dude. I'm actually going to do a video recording later today showing how having Sharpshooter 5 and Gallente Assault 5 has functionally no difference on dispersion - or if it does, how much of a difference. I've been sort of playing around with the AR on different suits and I'm not convinced that the Gallente Assault suit bonus even works, to be honest... You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Michael Epic Horizons' Edge 837	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:16:00 - [97] - Quote This game would be infinitely better for absolutely everyone if they nerfed strafing. Strafing is a legit tactic, but the super speed strafing sensitivity 75-100% with kin cats and FOTM suits and someone twitching out wildly and shooting you with 110% pinpoint accuracy with a high TTK weapon such as assault combat rifle is ridiculous. Michael Epic's "EPIC" Proposal to his girlfriend :D
Seed Dren Helix Order Learning Alliance 187	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:29:00 - [98] - Quote Strafing is the better tanking. Which affect AR specially the breach. Amarr assualt + shotgun + hellfire= illuminati confirmed
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10529	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:35:00 - [99] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: PLAYSTTION wrote: Summa Militum wrote: This gun sucks. It used to be awesome. Get sharpshooter level 3 with it and then try it. It makes all the difference. If you likey after that, prof and higher sharpshooter are where to go. I have: Operation 5 Proficiency 5 Sharpshooter 5 Rapid Reload 5 Ammo Capacity 5 Fitting Optimization 5 Can tell you now that it doesn't make the Assault Rifle any better and the Gallente Assault Bonus doesn't make it any better either. Weapon is underwhelming in CQC and there's no clear 'I'm going to win' situations like you get with the Rail Rifle at range. This is 100% true and I can attest to everything he is saying. Also, to whoever the person that said Gallente and Caldari bonuses were good.... just lol dude. I'm actually going to do a video recording later today showing how having Sharpshooter 5 and Gallente Assault 5 has functionally no difference on dispersion - or if it does, how much of a difference. I've been sort of playing around with the AR on different suits and I'm not convinced that the Gallente Assault suit bonus even works, to be honest... I run nothing but Assault nearly 90% of the time. The other 10% is split between tanks and commando. When I switch to my Commando, I notice next to no difference when firing, hip or ADS. Not to honk my own horn or anything but I pay close attention to the environment around me and how everything moves and behaves, that's why my plasma cannon shots and Ion Pistol shots are more accurate than normal.....and I was one of the first ones to complain on the forums about armor being bugged with Warlords 1.1. This literally being the only game I play outside of EVE for like 1 week out of the month. I pay close attention to the feel of it. The only thing you'd notice a difference on is the Ion Pistol, only because the hip fire without skills is about as big as a large blaster reticle. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9368	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:41:00 - [100] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: So if I swing by thang.dk this week, do you think I'll see Biotics and EWAR modules the Top 10 lows? Not 9/10 brick or 10/10 brick. Brick performance and brick prevalence have everything to do with AR performance. "Armor tanking is OP because thang.dk's market data shows a bunch of armor plates being bought on the market" Would you raise an eyebrow if usage data said: * Scouts are outselling all other frames by a factor of 10:1 * Combat Rifles are outselling all other primaries by 10:1 * Bolt Pistols are outselling all other secondaries by 10:1 * Myofibs are outselling all other highs by 10:1 * Remotes are outselling all other EQ by 10:1 I think you'd do more than raise an eyebrow. And you'd be right to. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10531	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:48:00 - [101] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: So if I swing by thang.dk this week, do you think I'll see Biotics and EWAR modules the Top 10 lows? Not 9/10 brick or 10/10 brick. Brick performance and brick prevalence have everything to do with AR performance. "Armor tanking is OP because thang.dk's market data shows a bunch of armor plates being bought on the market" Would you raise an eyebrow if usage data said: * Scouts are outselling all other frames by a factor of 10:1 * Combat Rifles are outselling all other primaries by 10:1 * Bolt Pistols are outselling all other secondaries by 10:1 * Myofibs are outselling all other highs by 10:1 * Remotes are outselling all other EQ by 10:1 I think you'd do more than raise an eyebrow. And you'd be right to. Not disagreeing or agreeing with whatever you two are bickering about but with the Myos you have to look at other factors like the module being pretty much new. People are still trying it out because we haven't had anything new in a while this coupled with the fact that if you are going to use myos you're most likely not using just one (I use just one) you're going to use two or three, maybe even more with those jumping Caldari suits. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 16302	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:50:00 - [102] - Quote I'd like to bring out a simple point. The AR requires you to completely and utterly change your play style to make it work. Other rifles can work in whatever range they want, they may not be perfect, but they can still work. The AR has the least amount of wiggle room, and for that it gains miniscule DPS that is honestly not worth the range it losses. Simply put, Range vs DPS is all screwed up. https://youtu.be/Ousslkymjyg?t=5s "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*
KILL3R H3LLH0UND New Eden's Black Market 260	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:51:00 - [103] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Simple. The sights. Back in beta it had clear, precise ironsights. The current sighs are hard to aim though. Ex-Master Scout Trainer, been falling in love with my Minja again. I <3 my Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1151	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:51:00 - [104] - Quote Just for reference, I've been running an 'oldschool' CQC Caldari Assault for the past two weeks because my Amarr Assault got slightly boring (no worries, I'll be back ). When I was choosing a weapon I had the choice between the AR and ARR. I have prof. 3 on the RR and 4 on the AR, so those were my options (I never liked the CR, no prof. on it). When trying it out I did much better in CQC with the ARR just because almost everyone in advanced or prototype suits has more than 50% of their tank in armor. With the weapon profiles and the proficiency bonus as it is that meant the ARR did and still does much better at CQC than the AR. I think Cyrus Grevare posted the numbers (after prof. 5): When a ARR does 25% more DPS against armor than an AR (506 DPS vs 389 DPS) then that is a very good argument in the current meta. I'm not saying nobody shield tanks, but I very rarely see competitive players in suits that have more than 500 shields. Armor DPS currently is more important than shield DPS, and thus the AR falls short.
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 16302	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:54:00 - [105] - Quote KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Simple. The sights. Back in beta it had clear, precise ironsights. The current sighs are hard to aim though. Good lord no. The iron sights in beta were freaking atrocious. The old camera sight was awesome, the old iron sight was NOT. "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10531	Posted - 2015.05.01 20:57:00 - [106] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Simple. The sights. Back in beta it had clear, precise ironsights. The current sighs are hard to aim though. Good lord no. The iron sights in beta were freaking atrocious. The old camera sight was awesome, the old iron sight was NOT. You ever play Battlefield Bad Company 2. There was an M21 EBR in that game I think or similar series. It's a marksman sight, that's what it looked like. They had a Marksman sight for a Fully Automatic, close range weapon Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9369	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:09:00 - [107] - Quote [redacted] Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1275	Posted - 2015.05.01 21:17:00 - [108] - Quote Quote: To be honest the only ones that aren't really up to par, imo, are shield regulators (because reactive plates are more functional) and code breakers; code breakers being the case because it's just far more functional to use a Minmatar Scout than to try and force another suit to use something it's not good at. That and it's effectively useless for a large portion of game modes. The armor plates are used mostly because - brace yourself - it's part of armor tanking. Which is pretty critical for armor tanking suits. It's easy to call 'diversity' when there's only three different things to put in the high slots (precision enhancers, shield modules, and damage amps) but to say that there's an imbalance because half of the races in this game use armor as their primary defense? Please. This isn't saying that shield tanking isn't subpar - it could probably use a buff - but saying it's because armor is OP is a stretch. Back to ARs now. So if I swing by thang.dk this week, do you think I'll see Biotics and EWAR modules the Top 10 lows? Not 9/10 brick or 10/10 brick. Brick performance and brick prevalence have everything to do with AR performance.[/quote] "Armor tanking is OP because thang.dk's market data shows a bunch of armor plates being bought on the market" [/quote] ..............I fudged that quote up......as usual....carry on........................................................................................................... whoa whoa,, hold up...are you telling me that armor tanking suits..arre being fit with armor plates? wtf , are them guys stupid? who does that??
Balamob Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 53	Posted - 2015.05.01 22:02:00 - [109] - Quote I would like to add that CR damage comes from its 1200 RPM which mitigates its profile disadvantage quite good, also have noticed that AR dispersion takes away its DPS in most fights i had with my lvl 5 sharpshooter lvl 4 prof alt and aiming is ridiculous at its optimal range where hipfire fighting is more important, i loose 2/3 (to mention a number) of my fights with AR againts other weapon profiles, i dont consider me a bad player, i still keep my 2.1 kdr with just STD, so i would say isnt my lack of skill. exMAG vet. Sver faction
ZiwZih Seraphim Initiative.. 399	Posted - 2015.05.01 23:37:00 - [110] - Quote Enough of smart people said smart things on state of AR, now I would just like to add: remove these peasant, totally non-Gallente, make-me-wanna-puke optics from Tactical AR and bring us old pre-Codex, or whenever that was cut, camera zoom view. It's futureGäó, it's Gallente. Act accordingly. FREJMO++ENIME~~

Jack the Rlpper OUTCAST MERCS General Tso's Alliance 183	Posted - 2015.05.02 00:04:00 - [111] - Quote I think since its a hybrid weapon and its meant for cqc make its bonus +10 shield / +10 armour so it is effective towards boh but not a strong as any other single classed weapon. Give me ISK please so I may better myself and fight the war of proto forever.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1539	Posted - 2015.05.02 04:16:00 - [112] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Add a no-zoom scope. Use the Burst AR model, same stats as AR, cut the scope zoom down to exactly what the current AR ADS is. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1291	Posted - 2015.05.02 04:23:00 - [113] - Quote reflex scope on AR would be sick, I love using that scope for my rifles in all other shooters when available. I'm a very very avid AR user, to my own disadvantage currently..but it is what it is.
Seed Dren Helix Order Learning Alliance 190	Posted - 2015.05.02 06:23:00 - [114] - Quote Allow weapon customization. Problem solved. Amarr assualt + shotgun + hellfire= illuminati confirmed
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars 370	Posted - 2015.05.02 06:25:00 - [115] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I find that scopes allow people to be far more accurate at 45m ranges. It why I like the burst and tactical assault rifles, I can take full advantage of there DPS because I have reliable tools to hit targets among lots of cover. (I makes it seem like I have a keyboard and mouse). The AR scope allows me to mostly over come the problem of controllers reducing a players ability to aim. (joysticks are just way less user friendly when they are that small on ps3 controllers). Additionally the aim assist is less strong compared to other games. I am saying that a scope combined with zoom helps me. A scope with no zoom does not allow me to have over come sensitivity issues. (lowering my sensitivity reduces my ability to aim with other certain weapons like a SCR and rail rifle.) The rail rifle ADS sensitivity needs to be slightly higher.
Tweaksz Titans of Phoenix RUST415 214	Posted - 2015.05.02 07:29:00 - [116] - Quote WeapondigitX V7 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? The rail rifle ADS sensitivity needs to be slightly higher. You do know you can change it in the settings. Pill Popping Madness!
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1015	Posted - 2015.05.02 07:50:00 - [117] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I have a few. But it's mostly a rough idea based on bringing similar classes of weapon closer together performance-wise. IE breach weapons perform similarly, assaults perform similarly, bursts, et al. What buffs would you consider unreasonable? Honestly I personally would like to see ranges pushed outward 10-20m optimal on most battle rifles given the framerate improvements. Generally where the gallente rifles fail is purely reach. They can get chopped too easily by distant opponents. a gallente weapon should always perform best on a gallente suit. if range is a problem then gallente need a way to get into range better. my suggestion isnt to do anything to the AR but to look at the gallente suits in general and how they fail at providing a viable platform for their own weapons. adjust gallente mobility: increase sprint speed and decrease stamina regen. end result: gallente end up able to close distance rapidly, but cannot sprint frquently. this means they can get into or out of a fight quickly, but they cant run around the map forever like minmatar can, nor run as long as amarr can without stopping for stamina regen. why do this? it actually is a racial characteristic of gallente in eve that they balance both speed and armor. we've covered this in the past when we tried getting kincats moved to high slots. this would be an alternative
EET SUM MOR Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 30	Posted - 2015.05.02 08:10:00 - [118] - Quote A slight buff at ROF and range
Tweaksz Titans of Phoenix RUST415 214	Posted - 2015.05.02 08:31:00 - [119] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I have a few. But it's mostly a rough idea based on bringing similar classes of weapon closer together performance-wise. IE breach weapons perform similarly, assaults perform similarly, bursts, et al. What buffs would you consider unreasonable? Honestly I personally would like to see ranges pushed outward 10-20m optimal on most battle rifles given the framerate improvements. Generally where the gallente rifles fail is purely reach. They can get chopped too easily by distant opponents. a gallente weapon should always perform best on a gallente suit. if range is a problem then gallente need a way to get into range better. my suggestion isnt to do anything to the AR but to look at the gallente suits in general and how they fail at providing a viable platform for their own weapons. adjust gallente mobility: increase sprint speed and decrease stamina regen. end result: gallente end up able to close distance rapidly, but cannot sprint frquently. this means they can get into or out of a fight quickly, but they cant run around the map forever like minmatar can, nor run as long as amarr can without stopping for stamina regen. why do this? it actually is a racial characteristic of gallente in eve that they balance both speed and armor. we've covered this in the past when we tried getting kincats moved to high slots. this would be an alternative Reminds me of how MWDs go hand in hand with gallente blaster dps fits in EVE. Pill Popping Madness!
Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 54	Posted - 2015.05.02 08:47:00 - [120] - Quote Seed Dren wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I have a few. But it's mostly a rough idea based on bringing similar classes of weapon closer together performance-wise. IE breach weapons perform similarly, assaults perform similarly, bursts, et al. What buffs would you consider unreasonable? Honestly I personally would like to see ranges pushed outward 10-20m optimal on most battle rifles given the framerate improvements. Generally where the gallente rifles fail is purely reach. They can get chopped too easily by distant opponents. Is funny how you and me posted around the same time sa to no the same thing. RANGE is the issue. But I'm sure someone will say leave as is I wanna kill you without you having the chance to kill me At long range, just because lore or because it was decided so. fair is fair right? leave as is because I go 3-1 all day with it on gal assault and cause team work is op. Don't have sp to spec into mid to long range weapons? Hello run a sqd. Another example of how ppl want one thing to do everything. Progession is a staple of this game I don't care if you don't have enough sp we've all been there. It kills and it does it well do the math on the dps, sustained dps and then how easy it is to hip fire the stats are very reasonable. Not as much sustainable dps as rail rifles but better alpha damage, more sustainable dps than cbr but less alpha, it is in a very good place it just may not fit how you want to play which can happen when choosing your first weapon. But what am I saying I melt you now I will take your buff and melt you even faster ty.

Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 55	Posted - 2015.05.02 08:54:00 - [121] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I have a few. But it's mostly a rough idea based on bringing similar classes of weapon closer together performance-wise. IE breach weapons perform similarly, assaults perform similarly, bursts, et al. What buffs would you consider unreasonable? Honestly I personally would like to see ranges pushed outward 10-20m optimal on most battle rifles given the framerate improvements. Generally where the gallente rifles fail is purely reach. They can get chopped too easily by distant opponents. a gallente weapon should always perform best on a gallente suit. if range is a problem then gallente need a way to get into range better. my suggestion isnt to do anything to the AR but to look at the gallente suits in general and how they fail at providing a viable platform for their own weapons. adjust gallente mobility: increase sprint speed and decrease stamina regen. end result: gallente end up able to close distance rapidly, but cannot sprint frquently. this means they can get into or out of a fight quickly, but they cant run around the map forever like minmatar can, nor run as long as amarr can without stopping for stamina regen. why do this? it actually is a racial characteristic of gallente in eve that they balance both speed and armor. we've covered this in the past when we tried getting kincats moved to high slots. this would be an alternative I don't see how the gal assault fails to do this. Maybe sqd up and I'll show you how it's done. Try using 2 feroscales one reactive and two reps. You will be mobile enough to fire and get closer through the fight by otr repping them and moving from cover to cover to get in range and keep dps on then so they can't keep up with your reps. Play like a gallente and it will perform like you wouldn't believe.
Edgar Reinhart Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 100	Posted - 2015.05.02 09:52:00 - [122] - Quote It's been said before and it may all just be personal perceptions but I come down on the side of the people who feel that the 'problem' isn't necessarily with the AR itself. More with the fact that they're out performed across all tiers by the assault variants of the other rifles. Maybe it's not the case, maybe it's just because of the armour meta, but it certainly feels that way when playing the game. I'm a lower level player and this seems particularly true of the militia AScR vs the other militia variants which is why I don't feel it's entirely down to the AR weakness against armour vs the amount of armour stacking on the field. It's a difficult one because if the AR is supposed to be 'king' of CQC then it does probably need a buff vs the other assault variants however it isn't going to need much of a buff in any of range,rof, dps etc to begin competing with, and outperforming, the HMG, which isn't right, and will inevitably lead to another round of the buff, buff, nerf merry-go-round. Either the other Assault variants and the HMG need to be slightly adjusted around the current state of the AR or the AR and HMG need to be adjusted around the other Assault variants but it's a very difficult one to call because of the amount of variables involved.
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9908	Posted - 2015.05.02 10:04:00 - [123] - Quote Edgar Reinhart wrote: It's been said before and it may all just be personal perceptions but I come down on the side of the people who feel that the 'problem' isn't necessarily with the AR itself. More with the fact that they're out performed across all tiers by the assault variants of the other rifles. Maybe it's not the case, maybe it's just because of the armour meta, but it certainly feels that way when playing the game. I'm a lower level player and this seems particularly true of the militia AScR vs the other militia variants which is why I don't feel it's entirely down to the AR weakness against armour vs the amount of armour stacking on the field. It's a difficult one because if the AR is supposed to be 'king' of CQC then it does probably need a buff vs the other assault variants however it isn't going to need much of a buff in any of range,rof, dps etc to begin competing with, and outperforming, the HMG, which isn't right, and will inevitably lead to another round of the buff, buff, nerf merry-go-round. Either the other Assault variants and the HMG need to be slightly adjusted around the current state of the AR or the AR and HMG need to be adjusted around the other Assault variants but it's a very difficult one to call because of the amount of variables involved. Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 289	Posted - 2015.05.02 10:53:00 - [124] - Quote increase mag size and reload speed, 100 rounds with a 9 second reload before skliis Dust 514 hurts Go Fabulous or go home
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1017	Posted - 2015.05.02 11:31:00 - [125] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: I don't see how the gal assault fails to do this. Maybe sqd up and I'll show you how it's done. Try using 2 feroscales one reactive and two reps. You will be mobile enough to fire and get closer through the fight by otr repping them and moving from cover to cover to get in range and keep dps on then so they can't keep up with your reps. Play like a gallente and it will perform like you wouldn't believe. not really. gallente mobility is the same as caldari. i cant close distant in my cal assault without using kincats. partly because of the range im fighting at, and partly because caldari are slow. So i know that gallente are even worse off. what youre suggesting only works when cover is present. this isnt where gallente suffer. gallente suffer when there is a lack of cover and must travel great distance, such as when fighting caldari at long range. if you use ferro plates, you wont have enough hp to get into range. Tweaksz wrote: Reminds me of how MWDs go hand in hand with gallente blaster dps fits in EVE. exactly. Aeon Amadi wrote: Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself. that wouldnt do anything except make the problem potentially worse. imagine range enhancing mods on rail rifles...
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1156	Posted - 2015.05.02 11:40:00 - [126] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: adjust gallente mobility: increase sprint speed and decrease stamina regen. end result: gallente end up able to close distance rapidly, but cannot sprint frquently. this means they can get into or out of a fight quickly, but they cant run around the map forever like minmatar can, nor run as long as amarr can without stopping for stamina regen. I very much support this. I think this design was the reason why KinCats had a much higher efficacy back in the beta. Instead of nerfing stamina regen they decided to nerf the KinCats and thus we arrive at the current situation. If we ever get to clean up stamina, stamina regen and walking-, strafe- and sprint speed this should definitely be implemented properly. Right now I could see an increased spread between walk and sprint speed for Gallente Assault. That would encourage fits that are fast in a straight line in contrast to Minmatar fittings, which should be comparatively better at the wiggle-wiggle rather than top speed.
Stormblade Green KnightKiller's inc. 74	Posted - 2015.05.02 11:48:00 - [127] - Quote Seed Dren wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? Damage is fine, is the range. IMO some assume is ok because is intended range is for mid range to short but what ppl fail to realize is that not evryone has the sp to skill into another mid to long range weapon to counter say rail rifles or lasers. That's where the disparity happens. Me personally am ok with it because I have weapons to counter rails and lasers. But I have the sp to do it. And how a lot of maps are set up they favor those weapons. so it becomes a who has the best mid to long range weapon. Simple solution find a way to get up close and personal with them.... it is not that hard.... One might say... I'm very skilled... yet I'm his apprentice... So what does that say about my mentor?
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9911	Posted - 2015.05.02 16:56:00 - [128] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself. that wouldnt do anything except make the problem potentially worse. imagine range enhancing mods on rail rifles... If you increase range on the rifle it's going to cause problems. If you offer up a module that not everyone would use, then it'd help the people that need it. You have a rail rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good range, so what's the point in adding more? Long-range combat. You have an assault rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good damage, so what's the point in adding more? High damage CQC fighting. It's appealing to the rifle's design in a more fluent way but offering both a way out and bridge into other areas if need-be. The Rail Rifle can already fit damage mods, so it sacrifices nothing. The Assault Rifle doesn't have that same opportunity. Doesn't matter how many damage mods you add onto it you will only ever be good at CQC fighting. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1315	Posted - 2015.05.02 19:05:00 - [129] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? I have a few. But it's mostly a rough idea based on bringing similar classes of weapon closer together performance-wise. IE breach weapons perform similarly, assaults perform similarly, bursts, et al. What buffs would you consider unreasonable? Honestly I personally would like to see ranges pushed outward 10-20m optimal on most battle rifles given the framerate improvements. Generally where the gallente rifles fail is purely reach. They can get chopped too easily by distant opponents. a gallente weapon should always perform best on a gallente suit. if range is a problem then gallente need a way to get into range better. my suggestion isnt to do anything to the AR but to look at the gallente suits in general and how they fail at providing a viable platform for their own weapons. adjust gallente mobility: increase sprint speed and decrease stamina regen. end result: gallente end up able to close distance rapidly, but cannot sprint frquently. this means they can get into or out of a fight quickly, but they cant run around the map forever like minmatar can, nor run as long as amarr can without stopping for stamina regen. why do this? it actually is a racial characteristic of gallente in eve that they balance both speed and armor. we've covered this in the past when we tried getting kincats moved to high slots. this would be an alternative yes, exactly.. best idea ever!!! that is how it should work, like in EVE, the gallente blaster boat fires up the mwd , get in range on his target and eats it for dinner. This is not even remotely possible on here... which is sad. I love the idea of high sprint speed with reduction of stamina regen.. it would be just like hitting that mwd and capping out. instead , we are these slow armor tankers..with the close range gun,... that has no means to close the gap before getting blapped
Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 55	Posted - 2015.05.02 21:22:00 - [130] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: I don't see how the gal assault fails to do this. Maybe sqd up and I'll show you how it's done. Try using 2 feroscales one reactive and two reps. You will be mobile enough to fire and get closer through the fight by otr repping them and moving from cover to cover to get in range and keep dps on then so they can't keep up with your reps. Play like a gallente and it will perform like you wouldn't believe. not really. gallente mobility is the same as caldari. i cant close distant in my cal assault without using kincats. partly because of the range im fighting at, and partly because caldari are slow. So i know that gallente are even worse off. what youre suggesting only works when cover is present. this isnt where gallente suffer. gallente suffer when there is a lack of cover and must travel great distance, such as when fighting caldari at long range. if you use ferro plates, you wont have enough hp to get into range. Tweaksz wrote: Reminds me of how MWDs go hand in hand with gallente blaster dps fits in EVE. exactly. Aeon Amadi wrote: Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself. that wouldnt do anything except make the problem potentially worse. imagine range enhancing mods on rail rifles... The gal is not supposed to compete in open mid range against a rail rifle. What I'm suggesting is to play how it was made to be played and you are wrong the feroscale will give you enough plus that 26 armour reps a second makes up for the sacrifice. I use it and it is very good. Unique1d also uses it and mostly at adv lvl and does great also. If you can't close the gap don't try to just take cover and defend the letter rendering that rr useless unless he chooses to fight your fight. Pick your engagement and use problem solving skills. But if you want me going 40-0 again with it every match by all means buff my weapon and I will see you back here calling for nerfs.

Demandred Moores Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 55	Posted - 2015.05.02 21:36:00 - [131] - Quote If you would like we can sync factional against each other and I'll give you a live demonstration of why a gal with a ar is in a good place. Recently many of my friends have switched back to the gal with ar. We have a blast, we're all vets with 70m plus sp and we all love it. I don't think I've ever seen weapons as balanced as this. Maybe the gal could use a slight sprint buff that may help you guys but other than that I still go 3-1 easily with it and find it fun to find ways to overcome it's disadvantages. The AR itself is in a very good place and the moderate amount of armour you can stack with the best reps lends a huge advantage to those with superior gun game as the suit is an armour based platform focused on being independent of logi support. I simply love where it's at right now and don't see a single valid complaint just that it can't compete at mid range with a rr which it shouldn't. All you have to do is pick your engagement. Defending points and providing excellent cqc is what it was made for and there is plenty of cover from mid range weapons on most every point so that rr can only get you if you let it or are rushed forcing you to step in its line of sight. The issue is you want it to perform in a way it never should.
Foehammerr Dead Man's Game RUST415 182	Posted - 2015.05.02 21:56:00 - [132] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? For one, it definitely needs an increase in total ammunition. Five magazines at level 4 ammo cap just isn't cutting it. And for the closest range rifle, every other rifle performs too good at close range in comparison. It does nothing that makes it stand out as a rifle (an assault variant no less,) and a close quarters weapon to make it preferable to other weapons. It's absolutely mediocre. *De Opresso Liber* Beta Vet since 2/5/2013
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1442	Posted - 2015.05.02 22:53:00 - [133] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself. that wouldnt do anything except make the problem potentially worse. imagine range enhancing mods on rail rifles... If you increase range on the rifle it's going to cause problems. If you offer up a module that not everyone would use, then it'd help the people that need it. You have a rail rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good range, so what's the point in adding more? Long-range combat. You have an assault rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good damage, so what's the point in adding more? High damage CQC fighting. It's appealing to the rifle's design in a more fluent way but offering both a way out and bridge into other areas if need-be. The Rail Rifle can already fit damage mods, so it sacrifices nothing. The Assault Rifle doesn't have that same opportunity. Doesn't matter how many damage mods you add onto it you will only ever be good at CQC fighting. But it is a module everyone would use, people use the modules that benefit them the most, and it's a module that would benefit the long range weapons far more than it would the AR. Even if a complex only added 20%, that's only 8 meters optimal for an AR, but an ARR gets an extra 14 out of the same module. And suddenly the optimals are now even more extreme from 40 vs 72 to 48 vs 86. And it gets even worse vs the RR and ScR It would be like back in beta where the sharpshooter skills actually gave extra range. It got taken out because everyone had it and if you didn't, you were almost guaranteed a dead man and CCP didn't like that. Clean and simple, it needs something to boost its overall DPS, having a DPS advantage of 6.6% does not give it enough of an advantage over a weapon that can hit out for its full damage at nearly double the range while the AR flounders. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9916	Posted - 2015.05.02 23:13:00 - [134] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself. that wouldnt do anything except make the problem potentially worse. imagine range enhancing mods on rail rifles... If you increase range on the rifle it's going to cause problems. If you offer up a module that not everyone would use, then it'd help the people that need it. You have a rail rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good range, so what's the point in adding more? Long-range combat. You have an assault rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good damage, so what's the point in adding more? High damage CQC fighting. It's appealing to the rifle's design in a more fluent way but offering both a way out and bridge into other areas if need-be. The Rail Rifle can already fit damage mods, so it sacrifices nothing. The Assault Rifle doesn't have that same opportunity. Doesn't matter how many damage mods you add onto it you will only ever be good at CQC fighting. But it is a module everyone would use, people use the modules that benefit them the most, and it's a module that would benefit the long range weapons far more than it would the AR. Even if a complex only added 20%, that's only 8 meters optimal for an AR, but an ARR gets an extra 14 out of the same module. And suddenly the optimals are now even more extreme from 40 vs 72 to 48 vs 86. And it gets even worse vs the RR and ScR It would be like back in beta where the sharpshooter skills actually gave extra range. It got taken out because everyone had it and if you didn't, you were almost guaranteed a dead man and CCP didn't like that. Clean and simple, it needs something to boost its overall DPS, having a DPS advantage of 6.6% does not give it enough of an advantage over a weapon that can hit out for its full damage at nearly double the range while the AR flounders. Eh, I suppose you're right... But even still, my point still stands with the Damage Amplifier conundrum. The AR needs to have a DPS high enough to warrant it's locked, low range because it cannot (I'll stress this) it -cannot- exceed it's range by any means whereas other weapons can at least keep their longer range and make up the DPS gap. Thing is, I don't think anyone wants to see the AR's damage or RoF increased. So, what can we honestly do apart from 'feel good' differences like a different sight or handling? You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Topher Mellen Scott-Mellen Corporation 185	Posted - 2015.05.02 23:52:00 - [135] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: PLAYSTTION wrote: Summa Militum wrote: This gun sucks. It used to be awesome. Get sharpshooter level 3 with it and then try it. It makes all the difference. If you likey after that, prof and higher sharpshooter are where to go. I have: Operation 5 Proficiency 5 Sharpshooter 5 Rapid Reload 5 Ammo Capacity 5 Fitting Optimization 5 Can tell you now that it doesn't make the Assault Rifle any better and the Gallente Assault Bonus doesn't make it any better either. Weapon is underwhelming in CQC and there's no clear 'I'm going to win' situations like you get with the Rail Rifle at range. This is 100% true and I can attest to everything he is saying. Also, to whoever the person that said Gallente and Caldari bonuses were good.... just lol dude. I'm actually going to do a video recording later today showing how having Sharpshooter 5 and Gallente Assault 5 has functionally no difference on dispersion - or if it does, how much of a difference. I've been sort of playing around with the AR on different suits and I'm not convinced that the Gallente Assault suit bonus even works, to be honest... I also have most of the dispersion skills maxed out. I'm 95% certain that the gallente assault dispersion bonus does not apply to the Ion Pistol or Assault Rifle.
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 541	Posted - 2015.05.03 01:48:00 - [136] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself. that wouldnt do anything except make the problem potentially worse. imagine range enhancing mods on rail rifles... If you increase range on the rifle it's going to cause problems. If you offer up a module that not everyone would use, then it'd help the people that need it. You have a rail rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good range, so what's the point in adding more? Long-range combat. You have an assault rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good damage, so what's the point in adding more? High damage CQC fighting. It's appealing to the rifle's design in a more fluent way but offering both a way out and bridge into other areas if need-be. The Rail Rifle can already fit damage mods, so it sacrifices nothing. The Assault Rifle doesn't have that same opportunity. Doesn't matter how many damage mods you add onto it you will only ever be good at CQC fighting. But it is a module everyone would use, people use the modules that benefit them the most, and it's a module that would benefit the long range weapons far more than it would the AR. Even if a complex only added 20%, that's only 8 meters optimal for an AR, but an ARR gets an extra 14 out of the same module. And suddenly the optimals are now even more extreme from 40 vs 72 to 48 vs 86. And it gets even worse vs the RR and ScR It would be like back in beta where the sharpshooter skills actually gave extra range. It got taken out because everyone had it and if you didn't, you were almost guaranteed a dead man and CCP didn't like that. Clean and simple, it needs something to boost its overall DPS, having a DPS advantage of 6.6% does not give it enough of an advantage over a weapon that can hit out for its full damage at nearly double the range while the AR flounders. Eh, I suppose you're right... But even still, my point still stands with the Damage Amplifier conundrum. The AR needs to have a DPS high enough to warrant it's locked, low range because it cannot (I'll stress this) it -cannot- exceed it's range by any means whereas other weapons can at least keep their longer range and make up the DPS gap. Thing is, I don't think anyone wants to see the AR's damage or RoF increased. So, what can we honestly do apart from 'feel good' differences like a different sight or handling? RoF and clip size increase are what the AR needs while keeping all else the same. All other options will not be as effective at bringing this weapon where it needs to be. And one thing that people seem to ignore is that, if you did have a range increasing module, instead of it being percentage based, it could just be a fixed number, like.. increase maximum range by 5 meters, instead of increase maximum range by 5%. But then again, I also think a range increasing module would be a bad idea. There is a reason why skills increasing range of weapons were removed from the game.
Genral69 death Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 212	Posted - 2015.05.03 02:00:00 - [137] - Quote Not sure increasing the clip size would help. Its not very often I die due to my clip size when I run my assault rifle General limited: warming failure to pay, may lead to death,massive amount of pain or even lose of family. Since 1995
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9392	Posted - 2015.05.03 02:24:00 - [138] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: And one thing that people seem to ignore is that, if you did have a range increasing module, instead of it being percentage based, it could just be a fixed number, like.. increase maximum range by 5 meters, instead of increase maximum range by 5%. Which would increase shotgun optimal range from 4m to 9m. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 113	Posted - 2015.05.03 03:10:00 - [139] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: PLAYSTTION wrote: Summa Militum wrote: This gun sucks. It used to be awesome. Get sharpshooter level 3 with it and then try it. It makes all the difference. If you likey after that, prof and higher sharpshooter are where to go. I have: Operation 5 Proficiency 5 Sharpshooter 5 Rapid Reload 5 Ammo Capacity 5 Fitting Optimization 5 Can tell you now that it doesn't make the Assault Rifle any better and the Gallente Assault Bonus doesn't make it any better either. Weapon is underwhelming in CQC and there's no clear 'I'm going to win' situations like you get with the Rail Rifle at range. This is 100% true and I can attest to everything he is saying. Also, to whoever the person that said Gallente and Caldari bonuses were good.... just lol dude. I'm actually going to do a video recording later today showing how having Sharpshooter 5 and Gallente Assault 5 has functionally no difference on dispersion - or if it does, how much of a difference. I've been sort of playing around with the AR on different suits and I'm not convinced that the Gallente Assault suit bonus even works, to be honest... I don't notice any difference with the AR when I use it on suits other than the Gal Assault. Thor's Emporium
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 3380	Posted - 2015.05.03 04:27:00 - [140] - Quote JIMvc2 wrote: Another pointless thread. Go ahead and use your pathetic CR and RR. I started using the Duvolle Assault rifle and omg It melts dropsuits instantly. The CR and RR don't stand a chance = I must be really good since I went 25 and 3 = >:) Then got hate mail saying its OP and I'm HTFU butt hurt fool. I think I hate you. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Day 16/30 exclusively Minja

Banjo Robertson Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 543	Posted - 2015.05.03 05:16:00 - [141] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Banjo Robertson wrote: And one thing that people seem to ignore is that, if you did have a range increasing module, instead of it being percentage based, it could just be a fixed number, like.. increase maximum range by 5 meters, instead of increase maximum range by 5%. Which would increase shotgun optimal range from 4m to 9m. which is also why i said its a bad idea in general to have range extending modules

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 21741	Posted - 2015.05.03 06:03:00 - [142] - Quote there will never be range increasing modules "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 161	Posted - 2015.05.03 06:15:00 - [143] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? lol yes it does reasons why - the BASIC scrambler rifle can out dps most of the assault rifles. think about this it has a 2.5 times charge shot and same rate of fire as a Duvolle Tacical ar and longer range. just look using max skills on all weapons. weapon/ dps vs shield / dps vs armor / optimal range / effective range basic scr rifle - 897 / 520 / 75 meters / 96 meters basic assault rifle- 521 / 370.8 / 40 meters / 70 meters - hmm why the huge range gap? basic assult scr - 536 / 310.6 / 55 meters / 88 meters - lol it does more to armor than it says. duvollle assault rifle- 573 / 408 / 40 meters / 70 meters - thought proto weapons had slightly more opt & eff range guess not. duvolle tact ar- 923 / 657 / 61 meters / 90 meters - so it takes a pro tact ar to beat the basic scr? hmm wonder about pro scr r viziam scr rifle - 987 / 572 / 75 meters / 96 meters - I really doubt it does that little to armor. so yea looking at the kill feeds I see way more scr rifle kills than any other weapon. most will say "it has an overheat" lol just look at it. think about this using max skills on an basic Amarr assault suit with the basic scr you can fire 5 shots for the same heat build up as 4 . the cooldown is the same fire 5 shots cools down as fast as 4 shots. so looking back has greater range same rof as a assault tact ar and OH yea the 2.5 times damage charge shot lol the assault rifles do need a little buff or just alittle longer range
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1679	Posted - 2015.05.03 07:08:00 - [144] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there will never be range increasing modules >tfw you will never have a range extension module >you will never have lower range weapons be effective in a slightly larger range >you will never use short range weapons to pwn players from med range Closed beta vet. Master troll. No lifer. /Moon'er. /sun tolerator and visitor. Praise the Moon \o/
Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 354	Posted - 2015.05.03 07:44:00 - [145] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: a gallente weapon should always perform best on a gallente suit. if range is a problem then gallente need a way to get into range better. my suggestion isnt to do anything to the AR but to look at the gallente suits in general and how they fail at providing a viable platform for their own weapons. adjust gallente mobility: increase sprint speed and decrease stamina regen. end result: gallente end up able to close distance rapidly, but cannot sprint frquently. this means they can get into or out of a fight quickly, but they cant run around the map forever like minmatar can, nor run as long as amarr can without stopping for stamina regen. why do this? it actually is a racial characteristic of gallente in eve that they balance both speed and armor. we've covered this in the past when we tried getting kincats moved to high slots. this would be an alternative While this should be the case with Gallente it does nothing to help the AR. It does me no good to get in range if my weapon is still outperformed by the other rifles. Why should I madly dash towards my inevitable doom? Speed works with the shotgun as it has high alpha and can 1-2 shot most suits, it is also supported by scouts low profile so your chances of getting in range is increased. The AR on the other hand doesnGÇÖt have anything going for it. AR should be king of the rifles within 40 metres. Increase damage and/or ROF but dramatically drop damage beyond 40 metres. It should be a beast in CQC but clearly less effective outside its intended range. If that doesnGÇÖt sit well with people then all the other rifles need to be toned down in CQC. I should feel confident holding my AR if I have closed the distance and IGÇÖm fighting someone with a Rail Rifle. =ƒÿ¦
Seed Dren Helix Order Learning Alliance 193	Posted - 2015.05.03 07:46:00 - [146] - Quote I'm happy with one or the other. More damage on cqc or more erange. Amarr assualt + shotgun + hellfire= illuminati confirmed
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 161	Posted - 2015.05.03 08:55:00 - [147] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: a gallente weapon should always perform best on a gallente suit. if range is a problem then gallente need a way to get into range better. my suggestion isnt to do anything to the AR but to look at the gallente suits in general and how they fail at providing a viable platform for their own weapons. adjust gallente mobility: increase sprint speed and decrease stamina regen. end result: gallente end up able to close distance rapidly, but cannot sprint frquently. this means they can get into or out of a fight quickly, but they cant run around the map forever like minmatar can, nor run as long as amarr can without stopping for stamina regen. why do this? it actually is a racial characteristic of gallente in eve that they balance both speed and armor. we've covered this in the past when we tried getting kincats moved to high slots. this would be an alternative While this should be the case with Gallente it does nothing to help the AR. It does me no good to get in range if my weapon is still outperformed by the other rifles. Why should I madly dash towards my inevitable doom? Speed works with the shotgun as it has high alpha and can 1-2 shot most suits, it is also supported by scouts low profile so your chances of getting in range is increased. The AR on the other hand doesnGÇÖt have anything going for it. AR should be king of the rifles within 40 metres. Increase damage and/or ROF but dramatically drop damage beyond 40 metres. It should be a beast in CQC but clearly less effective outside its intended range. If that doesnGÇÖt sit well with people then all the other rifles need to be toned down in CQC. I should feel confident holding my AR if I have closed the distance and IGÇÖm fighting someone with a Rail Rifle. lol well I have never been a fan of the Gallente assault skill bonus. i think it is laughable really what good does a 5% per level reduction to hip fire dispersion and kick do for CQC? answer nothing really. that bonus is the same as you maxing out the assault oper and sharpshooter again. I mean what good does it do to have a 50% reduction to kick & hip fire dispersion when most ads when at 30+ meters and at CQC you need a wider hit area to hit those fast side to side movers.
sir RAVEN WING 3468	Posted - 2015.05.03 08:56:00 - [148] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: I just played a match with it and I got 10 kills, 15 assists, and 2 deaths. The amount of assists I get with that gun is why I think it sucks. It's either just under-powered enough to prevent me from finishing the job half the time or the rate-of-fire is low enough that too many of my kills or stolen. With your logic the ARR, RR, CR, ACR, AScR, PLC, SR, Ect, Ect, Ect sucks. I can go 34/61/10 with an RR, oh it has near 2x more assists so it must suck. Nope I can go 29/37/5 with a CR, oh it still has more assists so it must suck. Nope I could keep going all day long. Day 6/30 Calscout Knifer/Last of A Kind/Sneaky
Gemini Cuspid 152	Posted - 2015.05.03 09:18:00 - [149] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: Summa Militum wrote: I just played a match with it and I got 10 kills, 15 assists, and 2 deaths. The amount of assists I get with that gun is why I think it sucks. It's either just under-powered enough to prevent me from finishing the job half the time or the rate-of-fire is low enough that too many of my kills or stolen. With your logic the ARR, RR, CR, ACR, AScR, PLC, SR, Ect, Ect, Ect sucks. I can go 34/61/10 with an RR, oh it has near 2x more assists so it must suck. Nope I can go 29/37/5 with a CR, oh it still has more assists so it must suck. Nope I could keep going all day long. If you're looking at wpns as far as proto lvl goes, then here's my thoughts: tons of wpns are a bit in an awkward loop of their damage priority lvls. So yeah a ScR has a huge damage output and probably is the strongest wpn by far. A railgun is identical in damage, a but more actually, but doesn't have any drawbacks at any range; will perform the same whether it's up close, mid or far and still maintains the superior range over an assault. If you want to throw the combat rifle then the combat rifle has the advantage of speed, better targeting snipe and stability over a duvolle. If you wanted to get into a fire fight at mid range the railgun and combat rifle would probably beat tons of he assault rifles; a tactical or creo might give you a chance but if everything else is equal even at a mid range those two should do you in. When we argue about the usefulness of assault rifles, not that they're bad, I use them, but it's not like they have the field role they once had. It's like you have a better chance using the ion bolt pistol as a shotgun vs a shotgun and knowing if it was a short quarter combat scenario the bolt pistol might be the overall better wpn. The best way to approach the overall point is that weapon assortment with update after update has kind of caused some weapons to have no real honest role in the game. A lot of users who rely on assault rifles do so because it's the easier weapon to use initially; combat rifles and rail rifles take skills but that's a skill point issue. Likewise game dynamics reduce the roll where it's no longer the simple HMG, shotgun, mass drivers, assault rifles and lasers in play. You get a lot more weapon variety and players who can now afford the skill points to make combos that were really usable before; can treat your assault as a scout or make that ion pistol a better shotgun. If you get in a shooting match at the optimal range of he duvolle, you might still easily end up loosing a shooting match against an RS 90 or a rail rifle with all things equal. Heaven forbid we include ScR's in this. That's really my take on it, that the assault rifles aren't useless but really lack the all-purpose usage that you can manage out of the combat and rail rifles.
sir RAVEN WING 3469	Posted - 2015.05.03 09:39:00 - [150] - Quote Gemini Cuspid wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: Summa Militum wrote: I just played a match with it and I got 10 kills, 15 assists, and 2 deaths. The amount of assists I get with that gun is why I think it sucks. It's either just under-powered enough to prevent me from finishing the job half the time or the rate-of-fire is low enough that too many of my kills or stolen. With your logic the ARR, RR, CR, ACR, AScR, PLC, SR, Ect, Ect, Ect sucks. I can go 34/61/10 with an RR, oh it has near 2x more assists so it must suck. Nope I can go 29/37/5 with a CR, oh it still has more assists so it must suck. Nope I could keep going all day long. If you're looking at wpns as far as proto lvl goes, then here's my thoughts: tons of wpns are a bit in an awkward loop of their damage priority lvls. So yeah a ScR has a huge damage output and probably is the strongest wpn by far. A railgun is identical in damage, a but more actually, but doesn't have any drawbacks at any range; will perform the same whether it's up close, mid or far and still maintains the superior range over an assault. If you want to throw the combat rifle then the combat rifle has the advantage of speed, better targeting snipe and stability over a duvolle. If you wanted to get into a fire fight at mid range the railgun and combat rifle would probably beat tons of he assault rifles; a tactical or creo might give you a chance but if everything else is equal even at a mid range those two should do you in. When we argue about the usefulness of assault rifles, not that they're bad, I use them, but it's not like they have the field role they once had. It's like you have a better chance using the ion bolt pistol as a shotgun vs a shotgun and knowing if it was a short quarter combat scenario the bolt pistol might be the overall better wpn. The best way to approach the overall point is that weapon assortment with update after update has kind of caused some weapons to have no real honest role in the game. A lot of users who rely on assault rifles do so because it's the easier weapon to use initially; combat rifles and rail rifles take skills but that's a skill point issue. Likewise game dynamics reduce the roll where it's no longer the simple HMG, shotgun, mass drivers, assault rifles and lasers in play. You get a lot more weapon variety and players who can now afford the skill points to make combos that were really usable before; can treat your assault as a scout or make that ion pistol a better shotgun. If you get in a shooting match at the optimal range of he duvolle, you might still easily end up loosing a shooting match against an RS 90 or a rail rifle with all things equal. Heaven forbid we include ScR's in this. That's really my take on it, that the assault rifles aren't useless but really lack the all-purpose usage that you can manage out of the combat and rail rifles. Let me dissect this. The ScR is quite powerful yes, but saying the Rail Rifle is better and has no drawback is one of the most obvious lies I have ever seen. The ScR performs well at any range, yet the RR will kick like hell, often even making it's own optimal difficult. AR = Close Range/Limited to CQC RR = Long Range/Hellish Kick ScR = Medium to Long Range/ Overheat CR = Short to Medium Range/Low Ammo The CR does not have a speed bonus over the AR, the AR is automatic, the CR is burst fire. I could, and have, won with Duvolle. I have also been OHK'd by a Duvolle at 50m. Your post is extremely messy, and proves no point. Day 6/30 Calscout Knifer/Last of A Kind/Sneaky

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1018	Posted - 2015.05.03 09:57:00 - [151] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself. that wouldnt do anything except make the problem potentially worse. imagine range enhancing mods on rail rifles... If you increase range on the rifle it's going to cause problems. If you offer up a module that not everyone would use, then it'd help the people that need it. You have a rail rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good range, so what's the point in adding more? Long-range combat. You have an assault rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good damage, so what's the point in adding more? High damage CQC fighting. It's appealing to the rifle's design in a more fluent way but offering both a way out and bridge into other areas if need-be. The Rail Rifle can already fit damage mods, so it sacrifices nothing. The Assault Rifle doesn't have that same opportunity. Doesn't matter how many damage mods you add onto it you will only ever be good at CQC fighting. But it is a module everyone would use, people use the modules that benefit them the most, and it's a module that would benefit the long range weapons far more than it would the AR. Even if a complex only added 20%, that's only 8 meters optimal for an AR, but an ARR gets an extra 14 out of the same module. And suddenly the optimals are now even more extreme from 40 vs 72 to 48 vs 86. And it gets even worse vs the RR and ScR It would be like back in beta where the sharpshooter skills actually gave extra range. It got taken out because everyone had it and if you didn't, you were almost guaranteed a dead man and CCP didn't like that. Clean and simple, it needs something to boost its overall DPS, having a DPS advantage of 6.6% does not give it enough of an advantage over a weapon that can hit out for its full damage at nearly double the range while the AR flounders. Eh, I suppose you're right... But even still, my point still stands with the Damage Amplifier conundrum. The AR needs to have a DPS high enough to warrant it's locked, low range because it cannot (I'll stress this) it -cannot- exceed it's range by any means whereas other weapons can at least keep their longer range and make up the DPS gap. Thing is, I don't think anyone wants to see the AR's damage or RoF increased. So, what can we honestly do apart from 'feel good' differences like a different sight or handling? think of the AR as the shotgun of rifles.... and then think about why no one but scouts and min assault run shotguns effectively. because if what you say is true about the AR being out ranged, then the same is true for other short range weapons, except i dont hear any threads saying the shotgun doesnt have enough range. i tell you man, the gallente suits need an increase in sprint speed. if you buff the AR then your buffing it for everyone. if you buff gal suits then the gals would be better with it.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1018	Posted - 2015.05.03 10:07:00 - [152] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: a gallente weapon should always perform best on a gallente suit. if range is a problem then gallente need a way to get into range better. my suggestion isnt to do anything to the AR but to look at the gallente suits in general and how they fail at providing a viable platform for their own weapons. adjust gallente mobility: increase sprint speed and decrease stamina regen. end result: gallente end up able to close distance rapidly, but cannot sprint frquently. this means they can get into or out of a fight quickly, but they cant run around the map forever like minmatar can, nor run as long as amarr can without stopping for stamina regen. why do this? it actually is a racial characteristic of gallente in eve that they balance both speed and armor. we've covered this in the past when we tried getting kincats moved to high slots. this would be an alternative While this should be the case with Gallente it does nothing to help the AR. It does me no good to get in range if my weapon is still outperformed by the other rifles. Why should I madly dash towards my inevitable doom? Speed works with the shotgun as it has high alpha and can 1-2 shot most suits, it is also supported by scouts low profile so your chances of getting in range is increased. The AR on the other hand doesnGÇÖt have anything going for it. AR should be king of the rifles within 40 metres. Increase damage and/or ROF but dramatically drop damage beyond 40 metres. It should be a beast in CQC but clearly less effective outside its intended range. If that doesnGÇÖt sit well with people then all the other rifles need to be toned down in CQC. I should feel confident holding my AR if I have closed the distance and IGÇÖm fighting someone with a Rail Rifle. ive suggested this before in the past and no one liked it because said something that sounded very close to "AR gets less range" people went nuts. yet the idea is supported even in eve. if we want to go with that option. id say increase the AR's dps to 500 and reduce effective range to 50m it gives the AR superior DPS application while creating a safety buffer zone for long range weapons.
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9922	Posted - 2015.05.03 11:04:00 - [153] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there will never be range increasing modules Then make the AR worth having such low range compared to the other rifles. 30 DPS pales in comparison to 30 Meters. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2719	Posted - 2015.05.03 12:21:00 - [154] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there will never be range increasing modules Use nothing but ARs on my alt, don't need a range module. Need short-range dps. Range modules would be good on the CR tho, depending on what they do. PSN: RationalSpark
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9392	Posted - 2015.05.03 12:56:00 - [155] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: there will never be range increasing modules Then make the AR worth having such low range compared to the other rifles. 30 DPS pales in comparison to 30 Meters. Could also tune long range rifles to perform less reliably than short range rifles at short range. Thinking hipfire dispersion. Worked well with the RR. Could also tune brick and shift the meta. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19498	Posted - 2015.05.03 17:58:00 - [156] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: there will never be range increasing modules >tfw you will never have a range extension module >you will never have lower range weapons be effective in a slightly larger range >you will never use short range weapons to pwn players from med range You have to rewind to the days where we had a range adjusting skill and how bad that skewed players over. CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2409	Posted - 2015.05.03 19:49:00 - [157] - Quote Honestly, the AR needs to have a niche amongst the rifles: The SCR has utter demolishment of all shields at any range the RR has range(Even though its' kick makes that point a fuzzy area at best...) the CR has guerilla tactics(Quick clip unload time and 2nd best reload) The AR has... unbelievably low range and only 3 DPS more than the ACR... We should make it's effective range crap, then make its' DPS like 20 points higher. example numbers: 40m optimal, 50m effective, +20 DPS(either ROF or DMG) and keep its' relatively wide hipfire there. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1349	Posted - 2015.05.03 19:53:00 - [158] - Quote what's the range on the RR? I had some dude rip me to shreds from 94m , sliced through me like butter
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1349	Posted - 2015.05.03 19:57:00 - [159] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: there will never be range increasing modules >tfw you will never have a range extension module >you will never have lower range weapons be effective in a slightly larger range >you will never use short range weapons to pwn players from med range You have to rewind to the days where we had a range adjusting skill and how bad that skewed players over. sometimes I miss that skill...and then I look at how I get killed from 90m already by a rifle and say damn i'm glad that skill don't exist.
Vell0cet OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3066	Posted - 2015.05.03 20:27:00 - [160] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there will never be range increasing modules I think modules that increased optimal range would really be game-breaking, but I think adding a module that improved falloff range would be reasonable, since you're already doing considerably less damage in falloff. It would add to fitting variety. Best PvE idea ever!

JIMvc2 Consolidated Dust 989	Posted - 2015.05.03 20:31:00 - [161] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: JIMvc2 wrote: Another pointless thread. Go ahead and use your pathetic CR and RR. I started using the Duvolle Assault rifle and omg It melts dropsuits instantly. The CR and RR don't stand a chance = I must be really good since I went 25 and 3 = >:) Then got hate mail saying its OP and I'm HTFU butt hurt fool. You got emotional real fast. Tell me about it :p (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! Die YOU SHADOW BEING IN THE DARK!!!
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1445	Posted - 2015.05.03 20:59:00 - [162] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Daddrobit wrote: But it is a module everyone would use, people use the modules that benefit them the most, and it's a module that would benefit the long range weapons far more than it would the AR. Even if a complex only added 20%, that's only 8 meters optimal for an AR, but an ARR gets an extra 14 out of the same module. And suddenly the optimals are now even more extreme from 40 vs 72 to 48 vs 86. And it gets even worse vs the RR and ScR It would be like back in beta where the sharpshooter skills actually gave extra range. It got taken out because everyone had it and if you didn't, you were almost guaranteed a dead man and CCP didn't like that. Clean and simple, it needs something to boost its overall DPS, having a DPS advantage of 6.6% does not give it enough of an advantage over a weapon that can hit out for its full damage at nearly double the range while the AR flounders. Eh, I suppose you're right... But even still, my point still stands with the Damage Amplifier conundrum. The AR needs to have a DPS high enough to warrant it's locked, low range because it cannot (I'll stress this) it -cannot- exceed it's range by any means whereas other weapons can at least keep their longer range and make up the DPS gap. Thing is, I don't think anyone wants to see the AR's damage or RoF increased. So, what can we honestly do apart from 'feel good' differences like a different sight or handling? Well, in my opinion, I'd shy away from giving the entire weapon a buff, and edge more towards changing the Gallente suit bonus instead. Right now the AR -works- but it doesn't shine! In the same way that a CR does well enough on your average suit, but it really shows off on the Min Assault, the Gal Assault needs a comparable bonus, and I don't think a small ROF buff and a reduced Dispersion buff is too extreme a bonus to ask for. Like 1% ROF and 4% dispersion, or 2% ROF and 3% dispersion. At 1% per level for a 5% ROF bonus at level 5, you're looking at a ROF of 840 and a DPS of 476 on the Duvolle. 8% DPS over the ACR for its 55% better optimal. 10% DPS over the AScR for its 37% better optimal. 11% DPS over the ARR for its 80% better optimal. At 2% per level for a 10% ROF bonus at level 5, you're looking at a ROF of 880 and a DPS of 498 on the Duvolle. 12% DPS over the ACR for its 55% better optimal. 14% DPS over the AScR for its 37% better optimal. 15% DPS over the ARR for its 80% better optimal. I really don't see the 1% per level being too extreme an option, and think 2% is doable, but it certainly does edge the weapon a bit much in one go. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Alena Ventrallis Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 3034	Posted - 2015.05.03 21:45:00 - [163] - Quote Honestly, buff the ROf to 850. This puts the Duvolle at around 481 DPS, which while still less thn the scrambler and combat rifles, is still good enough to kill targets, doesn't increase damage per mag, and with its smoother handling (especially with GalAssault) will be a force to be reckoned with. Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1357	Posted - 2015.05.03 23:35:00 - [164] - Quote does anyone else find this topic a bit funny when thinking back on Dust history? FKN AR SCRUBS< LEARN TO USE A REAL GUN , YEH YOU AND YOUR DAMN AR CRUTCH , GET GUD PICK UP A REAL MANS GUN , AR IS OP OP OP OP OP and here we are, heh
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 2120	Posted - 2015.05.03 23:52:00 - [165] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets. Smart ideas? more range. "Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1681	Posted - 2015.05.04 00:14:00 - [166] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: there will never be range increasing modules >tfw you will never have a range extension module >you will never have lower range weapons be effective in a slightly larger range >you will never use short range weapons to pwn players from med range You have to rewind to the days where we had a range adjusting skill and how bad that skewed players over. I said a module, not sharpshooter. Closed beta vet. Master troll. No lifer. /Moon'er. /sun tolerator and visitor. Praise the Moon \o/
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19506	Posted - 2015.05.04 00:39:00 - [167] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: there will never be range increasing modules >tfw you will never have a range extension module >you will never have lower range weapons be effective in a slightly larger range >you will never use short range weapons to pwn players from med range You have to rewind to the days where we had a range adjusting skill and how bad that skewed players over. I said a module, not sharpshooter. Effects are the same to a lesser degree CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9398	Posted - 2015.05.04 01:06:00 - [168] - Quote Knightshade Belladonna wrote: does anyone else find this topic a bit funny when thinking back on Dust history? FKN AR SCRUBS< LEARN TO USE A REAL GUN , YEH YOU AND YOUR DAMN AR CRUTCH , GET GUD PICK UP A REAL MANS GUN , AR IS OP OP OP OP OP and here we are, heh That's the history lesson you're going with? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Vell0cet OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3067	Posted - 2015.05.04 01:08:00 - [169] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: there will never be range increasing modules >tfw you will never have a range extension module >you will never have lower range weapons be effective in a slightly larger range >you will never use short range weapons to pwn players from med range You have to rewind to the days where we had a range adjusting skill and how bad that skewed players over. I said a module, not sharpshooter. Effects are the same to a lesser degree What if the module only applied to falloff range (with stacking penalties)? So for example the AR has an optimal of 40m and an effective out to 70m, that means it has 30m of falloff. Say a complex range amp module was +20% to falloff, that means you'd get an extra 6m of falloff (0.2 * 30m), so the new stats would be 40m optimal 76m effective. I don't think that would be game-breaking or cause the same types of issues we had with the sharpshooter skill. It would add different fitting options and add more variety. Best PvE idea ever!
Ceadda Sai Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 87	Posted - 2015.05.04 01:14:00 - [170] - Quote The scary big brother of the Gek. It recks. Forge Gunners: Now this is a gun for going out and and making people miserable with.

jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 162	Posted - 2015.05.04 05:13:00 - [171] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: Gemini Cuspid wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: Summa Militum wrote: I just played a match with it and I got 10 kills, 15 assists, and 2 deaths. The amount of assists I get with that gun is why I think it sucks. It's either just under-powered enough to prevent me from finishing the job half the time or the rate-of-fire is low enough that too many of my kills or stolen. With your logic the ARR, RR, CR, ACR, AScR, PLC, SR, Ect, Ect, Ect sucks. I can go 34/61/10 with an RR, oh it has near 2x more assists so it must suck. Nope I can go 29/37/5 with a CR, oh it still has more assists so it must suck. Nope I could keep going all day long. If you're looking at wpns as far as proto lvl goes, then here's my thoughts: tons of wpns are a bit in an awkward loop of their damage priority lvls. So yeah a ScR has a huge damage output and probably is the strongest wpn by far. A railgun is identical in damage, a but more actually, but doesn't have any drawbacks at any range; will perform the same whether it's up close, mid or far and still maintains the superior range over an assault. If you want to throw the combat rifle then the combat rifle has the advantage of speed, better targeting snipe and stability over a duvolle. If you wanted to get into a fire fight at mid range the railgun and combat rifle would probably beat tons of he assault rifles; a tactical or creo might give you a chance but if everything else is equal even at a mid range those two should do you in. When we argue about the usefulness of assault rifles, not that they're bad, I use them, but it's not like they have the field role they once had. It's like you have a better chance using the ion bolt pistol as a shotgun vs a shotgun and knowing if it was a short quarter combat scenario the bolt pistol might be the overall better wpn. The best way to approach the overall point is that weapon assortment with update after update has kind of caused some weapons to have no real honest role in the game. A lot of users who rely on assault rifles do so because it's the easier weapon to use initially; combat rifles and rail rifles take skills but that's a skill point issue. Likewise game dynamics reduce the roll where it's no longer the simple HMG, shotgun, mass drivers, assault rifles and lasers in play. You get a lot more weapon variety and players who can now afford the skill points to make combos that were really usable before; can treat your assault as a scout or make that ion pistol a better shotgun. If you get in a shooting match at the optimal range of he duvolle, you might still easily end up loosing a shooting match against an RS 90 or a rail rifle with all things equal. Heaven forbid we include ScR's in this. That's really my take on it, that the assault rifles aren't useless but really lack the all-purpose usage that you can manage out of the combat and rail rifles. Let me dissect this. The ScR is quite powerful yes, but saying the Rail Rifle is better and has no drawback is one of the most obvious lies I have ever seen. The ScR performs well at any range, yet the RR will kick like hell, often even making it's own optimal difficult. AR = Close Range/Limited to CQC RR = Long Range/Hellish Kick ScR = Medium to Long Range/ Overheat CR = Short to Medium Range/Low Ammo The CR does not have a speed bonus over the AR, the AR is automatic, the CR is burst fire. I could, and have, won with Duvolle. I have also been OHK'd by a Duvolle at 50m. Your post is extremely messy, and proves no point. ok how were you OHK by a Duvolle? unless it was a tact and you had less than 60 armor. I don't see it. Your AR, RR, ScR and CR bit are alittle off. these stats are using basic with just level 1 oper skill. weapon / opt range / eff range / avg dps / clip size / carrying ammo ar - 40 m / 70 m / 412 / 70 / 350 rr- 75 m / 100 m / 361.54 / 42 / 252 scr- 75 m / 96 m / 650 / 30 / 210 cr- 66 m / 84 m / 540 / 54 / 324 so the AR is good but the CR and ScR can beat it both at range & in CQC. the RR has a great range but even when ads the kick is strong. plus it has a charge up time to fire. the ScR has some overheat but when you can use a basic and kill an Amarr heavy with 1000+ armor before you over heat it, yea it needs some work. seriously started an alt, using an starter fit with a basic Scr no other skills besides level 1 oper in scr it killed the heavy within 20 meters while he was using a HMG. I almost died but I was shocked I killed him. since then I tested it on other heavy and about 70% I won even within 30 meter. so your medium to long range is BS! so is the "overheat". the CR yes it is a burst but once you learn the timing of tap shots on it you can be a beast. fyi low ammo? lol RR & ScR have less ammo.
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1682	Posted - 2015.05.04 07:19:00 - [172] - Quote Ceadda Sai wrote: The scary big brother of the Gek. It recks. It recks? I kek. Closed beta vet. Master troll. No lifer. /Moon'er. /sun tolerator and visitor. Praise the Moon \o/
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2950	Posted - 2015.05.04 14:25:00 - [173] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Also, to whoever the person that said Gallente and Caldari bonuses were good.... just lol dude. We've done this song and dance several times kirk, with you making arguments rooted solely in emotion (gallente things should be overpowered because reasons!) and me arguing numbers and facts. I have explained and referenced before (to a thread that rattati started explaining how dispersion/kick works) that absolutely no rifle reaches max dispersion or kick while standing still, it is only possible to hit 'maximum' when moving as dispersion/kick grows much faster when moving. I am aware of how much you like your idiotic wiggle dance because I know you like to fit ferroscales. Guess what? The gallente assault bonus supports that style of play - its bonuses are entirely oriented towards moving while shooting, something that has been the dust meta for FOREVER. The caldari assault needs some tweaking (in the form of the often discussed kick reduction) or its rifles need some rebalancing (exponential kick to rail rifles was a wrong and harmful execution of a nerf), but that by no means makes the suit 'bad'. Both the caldari and gallente assaults are good suits, with good bonuses. Neither are the 'best' at the moment due to statistical outliers like the min assault or amarr assault + ASCR/SCR Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9407	Posted - 2015.05.04 15:55:00 - [174] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Buff GalAssault Bonus! No! Buff CalAssault Bonus! Is it not possible that both could use slightly better bonuses? Their current bonuses aren't bad (especially GalAssault), but they certainly aren't on-par with those of MN and AM Assault. Why not swap out the GA and CA bonuses if/when we swap Logi/Assault speed? This would help to keep the slayers slaying in slayer suits (we don't want them migrating to Logi frames or back to Scout). Thinking something like: GalAssault: ~~-5% hipfire dispersion (plasma tech)~~ +2% rate of fire (plasma tech) CalAssault: ~~+5% reload speed (rail tech)~~ -5% kick when aiming down sights (rail tech) Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10569	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:02:00 - [175] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Buff GalAssault Bonus! No! Buff CalAssault Bonus! Is it not possible that both could use slightly better bonuses? Their current bonuses aren't bad (especially GalAssault), but they certainly aren't on-par with those of MN and AM Assault. Why not swap out the GA and CA bonuses if/when we swap Logi/Assault speed? This would help to keep the slayers slaying in slayer suits (we don't want them migrating to Logi frames or back to Scout). Thinking something like: GalAssault: ~~-5% hipfire dispersion (plasma tech)~~ +2% rate of fire (plasma tech) CalAssault: ~~+5% reload speed (rail tech)~~ -5% kick when aiming down sights (rail tech) When the hell did I say that exclusively for the Gallente Assault like some kind of selfish fool? For someone who tries so desperately to be the voice of reason you sure start a lot of ****. Stop quoting people out of context and we might take you more seriously. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9407	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:18:00 - [176] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Buff GalAssault Bonus! No! Buff CalAssault Bonus! Is it not possible that both could use slightly better bonuses? Their current bonuses aren't bad (especially GalAssault), but they certainly aren't on-par with those of MN and AM Assault. Why not swap out the GA and CA bonuses if/when we swap Logi/Assault speed? This would help to keep the slayers slaying in slayer suits (we don't want them migrating to Logi frames or back to Scout). Thinking something like: GalAssault: ~~-5% hipfire dispersion (plasma tech)~~ +2% rate of fire (plasma tech) CalAssault: ~~+5% reload speed (rail tech)~~ -5% kick when aiming down sights (rail tech) When the hell did I say something like that exclusively for the Gallente Assault like some kind of selfish fool in your summarization? For someone who tries so desperately to be the voice of reason you sure start a lot of ****. Stop quoting people out of context and we might take you more seriously. So sorry, Kirk! Fixed that quote for you. Wasn't my intent to make you sound selfish or foolish. Or close-minded, hot-headed, or belligerently biased. What do you think of the proposed bonuses? GalAssault: ~~-5% hipfire dispersion (plasma tech)~~ +2% rate of fire (plasma tech) CalAssault: ~~+5% reload speed (rail tech)~~ -5% kick when aiming down sights (rail tech) Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Clone Capper Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:21:00 - [177] - Quote Change Gal assault bonus to increase assault rifle effectiveness against armor per level. Increase Gal assault movement speed to allow it to succeed in CQC.
Kayla Michael Tactical Logistics and Cargo 111	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:21:00 - [178] - Quote So much anger. lol I eat drahp uplink, me thinks this isn't a cookie. `~`
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2950	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:24:00 - [179] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Buff GalAssault Bonus! No! Buff CalAssault Bonus! Is it not possible that both could use slightly better bonuses? Their current bonuses aren't bad (especially GalAssault), but they certainly aren't on-par with those of MN and AM Assault. Why not swap out the GA and CA bonuses if/when we swap Logi/Assault speed? This would help to keep the slayers slaying in slayer suits (we don't want them migrating to Logi frames or back to Scout). Thinking something like: GalAssault: ~~-5% hipfire dispersion (plasma tech)~~ +2% rate of fire (plasma tech) CalAssault: ~~+5% reload speed (rail tech)~~ -5% kick when aiming down sights (rail tech) Please don't misrepresent me to portray a gallente hatred or caldari bias. There are tweaks that could be done to rail weaponry that wouldn't warrant any changes at all to the caldari assault, but as the cal assault has the exact same bonus as the caldari commando minus a 2% damage buff per level it is in a place where it basically lacks an identity in terms of specific weapon performance related bonuses compared to other assaults. I also very heavily disagree with any assault getting a bonus specifically oriented towards TTK, like your proposed gallente assault bonus. As I see it assault bonuses are designed to improve performance in relation to other suits the longer a fight goes on (amarr not overheating or being as prone to overheating, minmatar having extra bullets, gallente not suffering from dispersion/kick while moving... and ideally caldari not struggling with the insano-kick they currently have). The paradigm currently presented is that commando's = damage & versatility, assaults = performance & staying power. I would argue that the bonuses presented by the minmatar and amarr assaults are balanced in and off themselves, the problems come in on either the suit in the case of the minmatar or the weapons in the case of the amarr. For the record, I really like the gallente assault bonus and really enjoy playing my Galassault alt. I'm not sure what tweaking could be done to make the suit 'better' without pushing it into the realm of overpowered. I'm not in fact certain that it really needs any tweaking and it's min / amarr that need some reigning in. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9407	Posted - 2015.05.04 16:51:00 - [180] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Please don't misrepresent me to portray a gallente hatred or caldari bias. Misrepresent is a strong verb; I'd argue that paraphrase, summarize, generalize, abbreviate all better describe the above summation. Caldari slayers have long asked for a better CalAssault bonus, as have Gallente slayers; both sides argue that their side is in greater need. This was my intended message. I've corrected the quote to clarify intent. MINA Longstrike wrote: There are tweaks that could be done to rail weaponry that wouldn't warrant any changes at all to the caldari assault, but as the cal assault has the exact same bonus as the caldari commando minus a 2% damage buff per level it is in a place where it basically lacks an identity in terms of specific weapon performance related bonuses compared to other assaults. What would you propose for the CalAssault bonus? MINA Longstrike wrote: I would argue that the bonuses presented by the minmatar and amarr assaults are balanced in and of themselves, the problems come in on either the suit in the case of the minmatar or the weapons in the case of the amarr. That's a fair assessment. MINA Longstrike wrote: For the record, I really like the gallente assault bonus and really enjoy playing my Galassault alt. I'm not sure what tweaking could be done to make the suit 'better' without pushing it into the realm of overpowered. I'm not in fact certain that it really needs any tweaking and it's min / amarr that need some reigning in. Agreed. I love the GalAssault's hipfire bonus, but people have long complained that it isn't a good enough bonus. I think it necessary and appropriate to swap Logi and Assault speeds such that Mobility and HP share an inverse relationship. My concern is that if/when this change happens, we might see a slayer migration from Assault to Logi or Scout. I'm of the opinion that slightly better Assault bonuses for Gal and Cal would prevent such a migration. Further, it'd soften the "bad news" blow; regardless of benefit to balance, many slayers will be upset if/when Assault speed is tuned. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2952	Posted - 2015.05.04 17:02:00 - [181] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: words aaaagh nested quote madness! Caldari assault bonus: Honestly, I will be greedy and biased and say that I would like both the reload bonus and the kick reduction but being forced to choose one - probably the kick reduction. That said it would likely require some massive re-tooling of rail rifles as I feel that rattati had a kneejerk response when he changed rail rifle kick from linear to exponential as well as quadrupling (0.05->0.20) it, which has since been changed to simply doubling it. Gal assault bonus: Honestly, I think this is a case of it just being undervalued due to people not understanding game mechanics, or it being 'invisible'. Riot games did an article about game design stuffs where they talked about anti-patterns and visibility of things, something being powerful but not necessarily identifiable can be severely undervalued unless it's dramatically overpowered. In effect lets say there is a 'command' module out there, that when fit to a dropsuit gave everyone on the team +20 armor and +1 reps per second but only one could be active across a team, this is an incredibly powerful module but it wouldn't be nearly as valued as a reactive plate. So I really think that there's a perceptional bias going on here it's a bonus that's very hard to notice and because of that is severely undervalued. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix RUST415 802	Posted - 2015.05.04 17:25:00 - [182] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: words aaaagh nested quote madness! Caldari assault bonus: Honestly, I will be greedy and biased and say that I would like both the reload bonus and the kick reduction but being forced to choose one - probably the kick reduction. That said it would likely require some massive re-tooling of rail rifles as I feel that rattati had a kneejerk response when he changed rail rifle kick from linear to exponential as well as quadrupling (0.05->0.20) it, which has since been changed to simply doubling it. Gal assault bonus: Honestly, I think this is a case of it just being undervalued due to people not understanding game mechanics, or it being 'invisible'. Riot games did an article about game design stuffs where they talked about anti-patterns and visibility of things, something being powerful but not necessarily identifiable can be severely undervalued unless it's dramatically overpowered. In effect lets say there is a 'command' module out there, that when fit to a dropsuit gave everyone on the team +20 armor and +1 reps per second but only one could be active across a team, this is an incredibly powerful module but it wouldn't be nearly as valued as a reactive plate. So I really think that there's a perceptional bias going on here it's a bonus that's very hard to notice and because of that is severely undervalued. The gallente assault bonus is a redundant bonus, it provides very little benefit. Same goes for the Caldari assault bonus. It isnt bias if a bonus is completely pointless and needs to be changed.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2952	Posted - 2015.05.04 17:41:00 - [183] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: The gallente assault bonus is a redundant bonus, it provides very little benefit. But that is factually wrong. Whether or not you value the benefit it provides is up to you, but the benefit is both meaningful and powerful. Lets not bring opinions and emotions into discussion of facts. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10572	Posted - 2015.05.04 18:07:00 - [184] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: The gallente assault bonus is a redundant bonus, it provides very little benefit. But that is factually wrong. Whether or not you value the benefit it provides is up to you, but the benefit is both meaningful and powerful. Lets not bring opinions and emotions into discussion of facts. As someone who isn't a full time Gallente your opinion that its powerful holds little weight. Gallente assault and commando us what I do. There's next to no difference in performance for the weapons outside of the TACAR and IP, which even those are minimal. I just find it extremely hypocritical that you go about saying the Caldari Assault bonus needs a buff while the Gallente one is A-ok because you played with the suit and rifles a few times and calculated your numbers (that's sounds like old CCP tactics) Especially when the Caldari and Gallente assault bonus are damn near in the same boat of lacklusterness. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9407	Posted - 2015.05.04 18:12:00 - [185] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Lets not bring opinions and emotions into discussion of facts. Now, now. That seems a silly thing to say ... Is it a fact or an opinion that Rattati "over-did" the RR nerf? Is it a fact or an opinion that the GA Assault bonus is "fine"? Is it a fact or an opinion that the CA Assault should have 2 weapon bonuses and other Assaults 1? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2952	Posted - 2015.05.04 18:14:00 - [186] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Lets not bring opinions and emotions into discussion of facts. Now, now. That seems a silly thing to say ... Is it a fact or an opinion that Rattati "over-did" the RR nerf? Is it a fact or an opinion that the GA Assault bonus is "fine"? Is it a fact or an opinion that the CA Assault should have 2 weapon bonuses and other Assaults 1? The difference here being that you asked for my opinions. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9407	Posted - 2015.05.04 18:22:00 - [187] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Lets not bring opinions and emotions into discussion of facts. Now, now. That seems a silly thing to say ... Is it a fact or an opinion that Rattati "over-did" the RR nerf? Is it a fact or an opinion that the GA Assault bonus is "fine"? Is it a fact or an opinion that the CA Assault should have 2 weapon bonuses and other Assaults 1? The difference here being that you asked for my opinions. Can't argue with that. +1 Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2953	Posted - 2015.05.04 18:28:00 - [188] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: The gallente assault bonus is a redundant bonus, it provides very little benefit. But that is factually wrong. Whether or not you value the benefit it provides is up to you, but the benefit is both meaningful and powerful. Lets not bring opinions and emotions into discussion of facts. As someone who isn't a full time Gallente your opinion that its powerful holds little weight. So you're going down the spkr4thedead school of arguing eh? What you're doing here is called the no true scottsman fallacy. Sgt Kirk wrote: I just find it extremely hypocritical that you go about saying the Caldari Assault bonus needs a buff while the Gallente one is A-ok because you played with the suit and rifles a few times and calculated your numbers (that's sounds like old CCP tactics) Especially when the Caldari and Gallente assault bonus are damn near in the same boat of lacklusterness. I didn't say anything about the caldari assault needing a buff. What I said is that it needs an identity. For the record, my gallente alt is at about 17million SP, the character is about a year old. Mina is at around 37million with about 14 of that invested into vehicles. That's not "I've played with it once or twice" kirk. That's also alongside an amarr alt and a min alt that are both at ~32million sp, I play this game a lot. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9408	Posted - 2015.05.04 18:29:00 - [189] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: The gallente assault bonus is a redundant bonus, it provides very little benefit. But that is factually wrong. Whether or not you value the benefit it provides is up to you, but the benefit is both meaningful and powerful. Lets not bring opinions and emotions into discussion of facts. As someone who isn't a full time Gallente your opinion that its powerful holds little weight ... There's next to no difference in performance for the weapons outside of the TACAR and IP, which even those are minimal. . I'm no Team Gallente All-Star, so feel free dismiss my opinions/observations as well, but I find the GalAssault bonus to be noticeable and useful with Shotguns, Vanilla ARs and Burst ARs. I run all three of these weapons on various races and frames; I feel a difference when I run them on my Assault gk.0. Nonetheless, I'd personally prefer to see the dispersion bonus swapped out with an arguably more potent RoF bonus (assuming, of course, Assault and Logi movement speeds are swapped). Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix RUST415 802	Posted - 2015.05.04 18:40:00 - [190] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: The gallente assault bonus is a redundant bonus, it provides very little benefit. But that is factually wrong. Whether or not you value the benefit it provides is up to you, but the benefit is both meaningful and powerful. Lets not bring opinions and emotions into discussion of facts. Meaningful and powerful? Don't make me laugh. The only 2 weapons it actually helps is the Tac AR and Ion pistol and even then it doesnt help much. The majority of the guns that get the bonus to them already have low kick and dispersion is low with sharpshooter 5. The downside to these weapons is not kick or dispersion, therefore it should be changed.

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2953	Posted - 2015.05.04 18:43:00 - [191] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: The gallente assault bonus is a redundant bonus, it provides very little benefit. But that is factually wrong. Whether or not you value the benefit it provides is up to you, but the benefit is both meaningful and powerful. Lets not bring opinions and emotions into discussion of facts. Meaningful and powerful? Don't make me laugh. The only 2 weapons it actually helps is the Tac AR and Ion pistol and even then it doesnt help much. The majority of the guns that get the bonus to them already have low kick and dispersion is low with sharpshooter 5. The downside to these weapons is not kick or dispersion, therefore it should be changed. Okay, you don't value the bonus at all, that's fine you are entitled to not place value on things that you don't want to place value upon. Should we just remove the sharpshooter bonuses and refund the skillpoints from them? Makes no changes to the weapons at all because as you say, sharpshooter / gallente assault bonuses do nothing. Yes/No? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 179	Posted - 2015.05.04 18:58:00 - [192] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: The gallente assault bonus is a redundant bonus, it provides very little benefit. But that is factually wrong. Whether or not you value the benefit it provides is up to you, but the benefit is both meaningful and powerful. Lets not bring opinions and emotions into discussion of facts. As someone who isn't a full time Gallente your opinion that its powerful holds little weight ... There's next to no difference in performance for the weapons outside of the TACAR and IP, which even those are minimal. . I'm no Team Gallente All-Star, so feel free dismiss my opinions/observations as well, but I find the GalAssault bonus to be noticeable and useful with Shotguns, Vanilla ARs and Burst ARs. I run all three of these weapons on various races and frames; I feel a difference when I run them on my Assault gk.0. Nonetheless, I'd personally prefer to see the dispersion bonus swapped out with an arguably more potent RoF bonus (assuming, of course, Assault and Logi movement speeds are swapped). A RoF bonus seems too potent in my opinion. It's a 10% DPS increase. Kinda marginalizes the benefit of the Gallente commando except for using the PLC. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 7302	Posted - 2015.05.04 20:22:00 - [193] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: The gallente assault bonus is a redundant bonus, it provides very little benefit. But that is factually wrong. Whether or not you value the benefit it provides is up to you, but the benefit is both meaningful and powerful. Lets not bring opinions and emotions into discussion of facts. As someone who isn't a full time Gallente your opinion that its powerful holds little weight ... There's next to no difference in performance for the weapons outside of the TACAR and IP, which even those are minimal. . I'm no Team Gallente All-Star, so feel free dismiss my opinions/observations as well, but I find the GalAssault bonus to be noticeable and useful with Shotguns, Vanilla ARs and Burst ARs. I run all three of these weapons on various races and frames; I feel a difference when I run them on my Assault gk.0. Nonetheless, I'd personally prefer to see the dispersion bonus swapped out with an arguably more potent RoF bonus (assuming, of course, Assault and Logi movement speeds are swapped). A RoF bonus seems too potent in my opinion. It's a 10% DPS increase. Kinda marginalizes the benefit of the Gallente commando except for using the PLC. So, what do you suggest? Keep in mind it should be combat oriented. What do the other bonuses actually do? They let the user use their weapons for periods of time. This, in turn, allows them to deal more damage over time. The Assault rifle doesn't have a heat up mechanic and increasing the magazine is for the Minmatar. The Caldari will receive a kick bonus which is our current one on a weapon that doesn't necessarily NEED it.
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 3440	Posted - 2015.05.04 20:40:00 - [194] - Quote Joel II X wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: But that is factually wrong. Whether or not you value the benefit it provides is up to you, but the benefit is both meaningful and powerful. Lets not bring opinions and emotions into discussion of facts. As someone who isn't a full time Gallente your opinion that its powerful holds little weight ... There's next to no difference in performance for the weapons outside of the TACAR and IP, which even those are minimal. . I'm no Team Gallente All-Star, so feel free dismiss my opinions/observations as well, but I find the GalAssault bonus to be noticeable and useful with Shotguns, Vanilla ARs and Burst ARs. I run all three of these weapons on various races and frames; I feel a difference when I run them on my Assault gk.0. Nonetheless, I'd personally prefer to see the dispersion bonus swapped out with an arguably more potent RoF bonus (assuming, of course, Assault and Logi movement speeds are swapped). A RoF bonus seems too potent in my opinion. It's a 10% DPS increase. Kinda marginalizes the benefit of the Gallente commando except for using the PLC. So, what do you suggest? Keep in mind it should be combat oriented. What do the other bonuses actually do? They let the user use their weapons for periods of time. This, in turn, allows them to deal more damage over time. The Assault rifle doesn't have a heat up mechanic and increasing the magazine is for the Minmatar. The Caldari will receive a kick bonus which is our current one on a weapon that doesn't necessarily NEED it. I don't think that the bonus should affect DPS. It could throw all the balancing and tweaking that Rattati's done recently out of whack. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Day 18/30 exclusively Minja
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9415	Posted - 2015.05.04 20:49:00 - [195] - Quote Joel II X wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: [quote=Adipem Nothi]... I'd personally prefer to see the dispersion bonus swapped out with an arguably more potent RoF bonus (assuming, of course, Assault and Logi movement speeds are swapped). A RoF bonus seems too potent in my opinion. It's a 10% DPS increase. Kinda marginalizes the benefit of the Gallente commando except for using the PLC. I do see the potential problem with Gal Commando overlap, but I don't see a problem with RoF potency. I might be being naive, so correct my thinking where it is wrong. It makes sense to me that GalAssault with a short-range weapon should be at advantag esimilar to that of a deadly as a CalAssault + RR range. At the moment, our close-quarter GalAssault + AR is arguably no better in CQC than a GalAssault + ARR or CR or ACR. A +RoF bonus fixes that, and gives our the Assault CQC specialist an actual edge in his area of expertise. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2956	Posted - 2015.05.04 20:59:00 - [196] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: ... I'd personally prefer to see the dispersion bonus swapped out with an arguably more potent RoF bonus (assuming, of course, Assault and Logi movement speeds are swapped). A RoF bonus seems too potent in my opinion. It's a 10% DPS increase. Kinda marginalizes the benefit of the Gallente commando except for using the PLC. I do see the potential problem with Gal Commando overlap, but I don't see a problem with RoF potency. I might be being naive, so correct my thinking where it is wrong ... It makes sense to me that GalAssault with an AR fighting at short range should be at an advantage similar to that of a CalAssault + RR fighting at long range. At the moment, our close-quarter GalAssault + AR is arguably no better in CQC than a GalAssault + ARR or CR or ACR. A +RoF bonus fixes that, and gives our the Assault CQC specialist an actual edge in his area of expertise. To put it this way, none of the other assaults ~~do more damage~~ have lower TTK with their respective weapons (the only technical outlier is amarr lasers because specialist weapon & firing it longer), they just make them handle better. RoF bonus on the gal assault makes it have a lower ttk than other suits, which is commando territory furthermore it doesn't apply equally to all plasma variants, mostly just the fully auto ones. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9416	Posted - 2015.05.04 21:14:00 - [197] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: 1. To put it this way, none of the other assaults do more damage with their respective weapons (the only outlier is amarr lasers because specialist weapon), they just make them handle better. RoF bonus on the gal assault makes it have a lower ttk than other suits, which is commando territory 2. furthermore it doesn't apply equally to all plasma variants, mostly just the fully auto ones. 1. Shouldn't the GalAssault + AR stand out as the go-to, short-range slayer loadout, much like the CalAssault + RR and AM Assault + ScR stand out as the go-to, long-range slayer loadouts? If yes, then it needs to be better in close quarter combat than available alternatives; DPS gets us there. If not DPS, then what? 2. +10% RoF = +10% RoF. The Shotgun has an extremely low rate of fire; its old proficiency bonus was +3% per level. Believe it or not, the difference between Proficiency(0) and Proficiency(3) could absolutely be felt. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9417	Posted - 2015.05.04 21:20:00 - [198] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: If not DPS, then what? (Spitballing) Could nerf short-range performance of all non-plasma weaponry to help the GalAssault + AR stand out in his specialty. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2957	Posted - 2015.05.04 21:34:00 - [199] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: 1. To put it this way, none of the other assaults do more damage with their respective weapons (the only outlier is amarr lasers because specialist weapon), they just make them handle better. RoF bonus on the gal assault makes it have a lower ttk than other suits, which is commando territory 2. furthermore it doesn't apply equally to all plasma variants, mostly just the fully auto ones. 1. Shouldn't the GalAssault + AR stand out as the go-to CQC slayer loadout, much like the CalAssault + RR and AM Assault + ScR stand out as the go-to ranged slayer loadouts? If yes, then it needs to be better in close quarter combat than available alternatives; DPS gets us there. If not DPS, then what? 2. +10% RoF = +10% RoF. The Shotgun has an extremely low rate of fire; its old proficiency bonus was +3% per level. Believe it or not, the difference between Proficiency(0) and Proficiency(3) could absolutely be felt. 1) Dps buffs create an imbalance. Plain and simple. They also throw rattati's damage/range table out of whack. Gal assault with 3 damage mods, if you don't think it'd be op/the most popular assault ever I have no idea what you've been smoking. The current bonus works within the 'performance' paradigm and causes them to excel in close quarters by not losing accuracy while moving and shooting. 2) +10% RoF = -10% TTK in almost every situation. On lower RoF weapons like the shotgun it would of course be noticeable as there was a .7sec refire delay, you were dropping .021 of a second off of that refire delay every level of proficiency with level 5 giving you a final refire delay of .595, a little bit more than a full .1s faster which is huge... but for a weapon like the Tac AR it's already hard for most users to max out its potential RoF so the bonus wouldn't be as useful. There are problems with the shotgun beyond its old proficiency bonus though and I've talked about this before, but in short its current design is broken / unbalanced - on the few suits that have the combination of footspeed and stealth required to make it useable it's pretty overpowered due to its incredibly, incredibly high alpha (yay 3 shots in less than 1.5 seconds! eat 1200+ damage!) on any suit that doesn't have that the shotgun is useless. I'd much rather have a lower alpha, longer range, sustained dps weapon (320 dmg shot @ 20m with a RoF of 100 or so, been a while since I've checked my numbers) Adipem Nothi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: If not DPS, then what? (Spitballing) Could nerf short-range performance of all non-plasma weaponry to help the GalAssault + AR stand out in his specialty. Lets not rob peter to pay paul. The current and appropriate tradeoff for range is DPS. No it isn't working perfectly as 50 dps loss is not an acceptable trade for 96% extra range, its way too good. If we balance the range/dps trade things should fix themselves... with that said though, every mainline service rifle should have the ability to perform throughout their entire optimal, though they may not necessarily be the 'best' at it. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10574	Posted - 2015.05.04 21:43:00 - [200] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: If not DPS, then what? (Spitballing) Could nerf short-range performance of all non-plasma weaponry to help the GalAssault + AR stand out in his specialty. This is pretty much what I want. I dont want to increase TTK of any weapon anymore than what we have now but if people were going to go that route RoF is the most prefered, least prefered choice. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2958	Posted - 2015.05.04 21:52:00 - [201] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: If not DPS, then what? (Spitballing) Could nerf short-range performance of all non-plasma weaponry to help the GalAssault + AR stand out in his specialty. This is pretty much what I want. I dont want to increase TTK of any weapon anymore than what we have now but if people were going to go that route RoF is the most prefered, least prefered choice. As people have gone to lengths trying to explain to you before what you want is blatantly harmful to the way that people play dust. It does not create new and exciting things it removes functionality and gameplay, simply because someone drew a line in the sand and said "I want to be the best at close quarters and to achieve that all other things should have their knees broken at close quarters so I can dominate them". Removal of functionality / arbitrary poor performance is the last thing that should ever happen. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10575	Posted - 2015.05.04 22:21:00 - [202] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: If not DPS, then what? (Spitballing) Could nerf short-range performance of all non-plasma weaponry to help the GalAssault + AR stand out in his specialty. This is pretty much what I want. I dont want to increase TTK of any weapon anymore than what we have now but if people were going to go that route RoF is the most prefered, least prefered choice. As people have gone to lengths trying to explain to you before what you want is blatantly harmful to the way that people play dust. It does not create new and exciting things it removes functionality and gameplay, simply because someone drew a line in the sand and said "I want to be the best at close quarters and to achieve that all other things should have their knees broken at close quarters so I can dominate them". Removal of functionality / arbitrary poor performance is the last thing that should ever happen. I look at it from the perspective of these items were performing too well out of their area rather than taking away an ability. Whether or not well agree on how to fix it the agreed statement is that what the AR sacrifices in range doesn't make up for what it gains. It's so damn close, but the cigar isn't lit. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9417	Posted - 2015.05.04 22:35:00 - [203] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: [ 1. Dps buffs create an imbalance. Plain and simple. They also throw rattati's damage/range table out of whack. 2. There are problems with the shotgun beyond its old proficiency bonus though and I've talked about this before, but in short its current design is broken / unbalanced - on the few suits that have the combination of footspeed and stealth required to make it useable it's pretty overpowered due to its incredibly, incredibly high alpha (yay 3 shots in less than 1.5 seconds! eat 1200+ damage!) on any suit that doesn't have that the shotgun is useless. I'd much rather have a lower alpha, longer range, sustained dps weapon (320 dmg shot @ 20m with a RoF of 100 or so, been a while since I've checked my numbers) 3. Lets not rob peter to pay paul. The current and appropriate tradeoff for range is DPS. No it isn't working perfectly as 50 dps loss is not an acceptable trade for 96% extra range, that gain of range is way too good. If we balance the range/dps trade things should fix themselves... with that said though, every mainline service rifle should have the ability to perform throughout their entire optimal, though they may not necessarily be the 'best' at it. I'll just respond to the really bad parts :-) 1. Nonsense. AScR DPS was altered and weapon balance improved as a result. 2. I've read your thoughts/proposals on the shotgun. I think it a bad idea to try to turn the shotgun into a bad rifle. I say this as a career shotgunner. If the shotgun actually hits hard down range, it'll be OP. If it doesn't hit hard at any range, it won't be worth running. 3. A scale out-of-equilibrium makes for a better analogy here; we can add to one side or subtract from the other to get where we want to be. We have a specialist with no meaningful advantage in his specialty. That's a problem. To fix the problem, we can make him better, or we can make his competition worse. 4. Fine Rifles, eh? My all-time least favorite concept! Whooping butt from the hip at 5m, then smashing faces down range at 85m. With this Fine Rifle, I'll be so good at Dust! Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9417	Posted - 2015.05.04 22:36:00 - [204] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Whether or not well agree on how to fix it the agreed statement is that what the AR sacrifices in range doesn't make up for what it gains. Agreed. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10577	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:03:00 - [205] - Quote I've actually had a shotgun thread somewhere discussing usefulness. I'll dig it up when I get off work. I'd love for the shotgun to be somewhat useful on something besides a scout but the process in doing the requires a lot of delicate tuning. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9417	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:11:00 - [206] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: I've actually had a shotgun thread somewhere discussing usefulness. I'll dig it up when I get off work. I'd love for the shotgun to be somewhat useful on something besides a scout but the process in doing the requires a lot of delicate tuning. The shotgun is pretty good on a speed-tanked GA Assault and (obviously) MN Assault. Try this out on your gk.0. As an aside, EWAR is holding the shotgun back more than the shotgun's specifications; this is by design and is arguably a good thing, as shotgun kill/spawn efficiency was previously disproportionate to that of other Light Weapons. EWAR changes (namely Falloff) substantially increased the risk of shotgunning. A long-range shotgun would bypass short-range inner rings, negating Falloff risk ... extending Falloff inner rings in response would threaten NK viability and introduce new balance problems ... blah blah :-) Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2958	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:13:00 - [207] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: [ 1. Dps buffs create an imbalance. Plain and simple. They also throw rattati's damage/range table out of whack. 2. There are problems with the shotgun beyond its old proficiency bonus though and I've talked about this before, but in short its current design is broken / unbalanced - on the few suits that have the combination of footspeed and stealth required to make it useable it's pretty overpowered due to its incredibly, incredibly high alpha (yay 3 shots in less than 1.5 seconds! eat 1200+ damage!) on any suit that doesn't have that the shotgun is useless. I'd much rather have a lower alpha, longer range, sustained dps weapon (320 dmg shot @ 20m with a RoF of 100 or so, been a while since I've checked my numbers) 3. Lets not rob peter to pay paul. The current and appropriate tradeoff for range is DPS. No it isn't working perfectly as 50 dps loss is not an acceptable trade for 96% extra range, that gain of range is way too good. If we balance the range/dps trade things should fix themselves... with that said though, every mainline service rifle should have the ability to perform throughout their entire optimal, though they may not necessarily be the 'best' at it. I'll just respond to the bad parts :-) 1. Nonsense. AScR DPS was altered and weapon balance improved as a result. 2. I've read your thoughts/proposals on the shotgun. I think it a bad idea to try to turn the shotgun into a bad rifle. I say this as a career shotgunner. If the shotgun actually hits hard down range, it'll be OP. If it doesn't hit hard at any range, it won't be worth running. 3. A scale out-of-equilibrium makes for a better analogy here; we can add to one side or subtract from the other to get where we want to be. We have a supposed CQC weapon/unit pair which are no better than their competition in within their specialty. That's a problem. To fix the problem, we can make weapon/unit pair better, or we can make the competition worse. 4. Fine Rifles, eh? My all-time least favorite concept! Whooping butt from the hip at 5m, then smashing faces down range at 85m. 1) I heavily disagree. The ASCR's numbers make it outright better than the AR at significantly longer ranges, it was underpowered... now it just makes another weapon obsolete. 2) We'll agree to disagree on this one. I do not believe the shotgun is in any way a healthy weapon in how it performs. 3) preface I'm not sure that I'm following your entire point here. Gallente are better than their competition in short range however, that is demonstrable. As I said, the range/dps balance is off and needs re-evaluation. I do not believe in arbitrarily making the competition 'worse' and I feel that what you've proposed for making the gallente better is unbalanced, wrong or changing something that doesn't need to be changed. 4) This point is practically ad-hominem in how it addresses my statements and thoughts on rifle balance/assault balance. I know your thoughts on fine rifles and to present my opinion as though I'm advocating for them when I am not is offensive, I am being respectful of your opinions, be respectful of mine. DPS should be the tradeoff for range, not performance or anything else, the gap between dps and range is far too great at the moment. No one likes having arbitrary handicaps placed on their weapons. I am trying to discuss things in good nature with you and I am quickly feeling like you are doing little more than attacking or ridiculing me. I have tried to present reasonable support for my positions when available and it really seems like you're just ignoring it to try and push something that I don't think many people would want at all. I cannot sum this up any better than I think the RoF buff you've proposed for the gallente assault is at its best infringing upon the racial identity of the gallente commando and at worst deeply flawed and addresses problems that don't actually exist - ie, there is nothing wrong with the gallente assault it is good and its bonus is good. Your support of wanting to make a ton of weapons perform worse just so that a few can shine in comparison is causing me to quickly lose respect for you. Harming the vast majority of the playerbase to content a much smaller faction is bad and wrong. The correct solution to this is a functioning dps <--> range scale. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9417	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:15:00 - [208] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Your support of wanting to make a ton of weapons perform worse just so that a few can shine in comparison is causing me to quickly lose respect for you. Harming the vast majority of the playerbase to content a much smaller faction is bad and wrong. The correct solution to this is a functioning dps <--> range scale. I proposed this as a spitball alternative to buffing GalAssault + AR, frankly because I can't think of any other tenable solutions. "Spitballing" doesn't qualify as "support" ... we're brainstorming here. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10577	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:20:00 - [209] - Quote Just to clear things up in Mina's post. No one here is saying the Gallente Assault is bad. It's a good suit, the issue that's being discussed is just the Rifle and the suit's bonus. The Gallente Assault is a damn good suit by itself. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2958	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:23:00 - [210] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Your support of wanting to make a ton of weapons perform worse just so that a few can shine in comparison is causing me to quickly lose respect for you. Harming the vast majority of the playerbase to content a much smaller faction is bad and wrong. The correct solution to this is a functioning dps <--> range scale. I proposed this as a spitball alternative to changing GalAssault bonus and/or tuning the AR, because I can't think of any other tenable solutions to the specialization problem. "Spitballing" doesn't qualify as "support" ... we're brainstorming here. That you'd even consider it causes me concern. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8376	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:27:00 - [211] - Quote The gallente rifles suffer from one single major problem. and one minor problem. the minor problem is scrams out-DPS them. The major problem is every weapon in the game except for the HMG and shotgun outrange them. it's pretty much that simple. None of the rifles will ever be balanced, because all of the rifles use different balancing metrics. Until the balancing metrics are streamlined (and hard rules applied) then the AR will never get balanced against the other rifles simply because it has no range. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2958	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:27:00 - [212] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Just to clear things up in Mina's post. No one here is saying the Gallente Assault is bad. It's a good suit, the issue that's being discussed is just the Rifle and the suit's bonus. The Gallente Assault is a damn good suit by itself. Fair enough, I'll try to stop beating that horse. I'm trying not to get frustrated here, but the simple idea of performance nerfs to other weapons makes me sick. I very much feel that the damage / range scale is off and something like breakin stuffs earlier proposal could do some work to fix it, with a few stipulations like semi auto (tactical) weapons having higher paper DPS because the vast majority don't actualize their potential. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10577	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:28:00 - [213] - Quote Damn, you are getting too bent out about this. I may be vivid in my emotions but contrary to what my post may sound like a loss of respect certainly doesn't happen just because someone's thought process is in a different area than my own. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
SHADOWBlood ASSASSIN The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 105	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:29:00 - [214] - Quote Someone please tell me how such a stupid thread picked up 211 replies? If you look at the original post...... Just no. My worst DUST experience? Having my dropship crush my Scotsman's with a Roden Sniper. THAT was a fun day...
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9417	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:30:00 - [215] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Your support of wanting to make a ton of weapons perform worse just so that a few can shine in comparison is causing me to quickly lose respect for you. Harming the vast majority of the playerbase to content a much smaller faction is bad and wrong. The correct solution to this is a functioning dps <--> range scale. I proposed this as a spitball alternative to changing GalAssault bonus and/or tuning the AR, because I can't think of any other tenable solutions to the specialization problem. "Spitballing" doesn't qualify as "support" ... we're brainstorming here. That you'd even consider it causes me concern. We spitball the wall. We put an option up, hate it as we may. We agree that its a non-option or a bad option. We discuss why. We rule it out, we move on, and we make progress. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2958	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:34:00 - [216] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Damn, you are getting too bent out about this. I may be vivid in my emotions but contrary to what my post may sound like a loss of respect certainly doesn't happen just because someone's thought process is in a different area than my own. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositional_defiant_disorder I am part of the 10% lifetime persistency group. I am getting frustrated because (to me) Adipem Nothi is in support of something that is disgustingly bad, harmful and wrong and he seemingly cant see the flaws in it. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10577	Posted - 2015.05.04 23:36:00 - [217] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Damn, you are getting too bent out about this. I may be vivid in my emotions but contrary to what my post may sound like a loss of respect certainly doesn't happen just because someone's thought process is in a different area than my own. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositional_defiant_disorder I am part of the 10% lifetime persistency group. I am getting frustrated because (to me) Adipem Nothi is in support of something that is disgustingly bad, harmful and wrong and he seemingly cant see the flaws in it. Loool well ya know to me he's got a track record with not seeing things that are wrong. clicks link Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9424	Posted - 2015.05.05 11:49:00 - [218] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Damn, you are getting too bent out about this. I may be vivid in my emotions but contrary to what my post may sound like a loss of respect certainly doesn't happen just because someone's thought process is in a different area than my own. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositional_defiant_disorder I am part of the 10% lifetime persistency group. I am getting frustrated because (to me) Adipem Nothi is in support of something that is disgustingly bad, harmful and wrong and he seemingly cant see the flaws in it. What am I in support of, again? At Short Range: Short Range Rifles > Med/Long Range Rifles At Med/Long Range: Med/Long Range Rifles > Short Range Rifles ^ Now this is disgustingly bad, harmful and wrong ... because why? MINA Longstrike wrote: Harming the vast majority of the playerbase to content a much smaller faction is bad and wrong. So ... * AR-514 was good and right; fixing it was bad and wrong? * MN Assaults are good and right; fixing them would be bad and wrong? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2960	Posted - 2015.05.05 13:06:00 - [219] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: What am I in support of, again? At Short Range: Short Range Rifles > Med/Long Range Rifles At Med/Long Range: Med/Long Range Rifles > Short Range Rifles ^ Now this is disgustingly bad, harmful and wrong ... because why? You are taking my words out of context Nothi and twisting them to say things that I haven't, you are compounding this by overly simplifying your own arguments so that it seems like I'm attacking the whole idea instead of the specifics. This is called strawmanning. I must repeat what kirk has said, for someone who apparently prides themselves on being a voice of reason, you are debating in extremely poor taste and have seemingly set out to try and make me 'wrong'. I have been talking about your statement of hitting weapons performance instead of their dps. To me, performance means things like kick, dispersion etcetera. Making a weapons performance function badly outside of its 'intended' range because reasons is a terrible approach to balance, the correct metric should be a properly scaled range vs dps function. Adipem Nothi wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Harming the vast majority of the playerbase to content a much smaller faction is bad and wrong. So ... * AR-514 was good and right; fixing it was bad and wrong? * MN Assaults are good and right; fixing them would be bad and wrong? Cherrypick and strawman harder prick. These 'points' are distractionary ad-hominem and non-discussion. You are trying to avoid engaging with my points by instead calling me a hypocrite and criticizing me. Try actually defending your arguments in a rational manner. I have never said anything about ar514, ever, and I will not discuss this with you. I do not see any progression to this discussion until you stop littering it with logical fallacies and quoting me out of context. If you're trying to ** me off by acting like a jackass you've succeeded you can have alllllllllllll the internet points for it. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8389	Posted - 2015.05.05 13:20:00 - [220] - Quote But I wanted to be the one to make you lose your cool! There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9425	Posted - 2015.05.05 13:23:00 - [221] - Quote Here's my take on your angst, Mina, and why I think you and I aren't seeing eye-to-eye. You were upset when the long range Rail Rifle became less effective at close range; I can dig up quotes if you like. In those quotes, you refer to the RR and other rifles as "service rifles" because you believe that rifles should be deadly effective at a wide variety of ranges. In the Fine Rifle model, there are no short or long range rifles; all rifles are "every range rifles" with DPS scaled against maximum range. The Fine Rifle model is a very popular one, as it makes for more versatile and effective rifles; this sounds good to the vast majority of player base (who happen to run rifles). Those who subscribe to this model take issue when rifles are labeled either "short range rifles" or "long range rifles" because these labels imply functional limitations. What gets Fine Rifle proponents more upset and vocal than an implied functional limitation is an actual functional limitation; like when Rattati tuned the Rail Rifle, and it lost it the ability to compete in CQC. You (Mina) feel that the functional limitations applied to the Rail Rifle were unfair; you would like to see the Rail Rifle's capacity for CQC restored, and you're a proponent of the model described above. Here's where you and I stop seeing eye-to-eye. The Fine Rifle model puts rifleman at significant advantage over all other types of combatants. In a balanced Dust, all weapons are viable and no weapon type carries with it a massive advantage over the next. In a balanced Dust, there is no room for a weapon or group of weapons which has substantially fewer limitations than the next. The "jack of all trade" concept works if and only if that jack is substantially inferior to less versatile weaponry. I don't agree that a long range rifleman should be able to readily able to "defend himself" when caught offguard in CQC. He should should have to switch to close-range sidearm just like a guy with a Laser Rifle, Sniper Rifle or Forge gun. I don't agree that a short range rifleman should be able to gun down low-HP units at med/long range; he should have to switch to a long-range sidearm, just like a guy with an HMG, Knives or a Shotgun. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2960	Posted - 2015.05.05 13:24:00 - [222] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: But I wanted to be the one to make you lose your cool! Plz no. I'm already about two steps away from punching something and it's going to take me about two-three hours to calm down. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2960	Posted - 2015.05.05 13:26:00 - [223] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: aghblrugausdnawuebdfuabwdedauwdubgueberauwduawfbwauebyfhgurblrurlburblrubhrblrubhrgualbrughrlgurbhrlgurghbrugr I am a huge jackass Look guys! I can argue like nothi! For the record, I have almost zero interest in what you have to say anymore no matter how well you try to present it. I was not the person to first descend to strawmanning and ad hominem in our discussion and I have zero respect for people who want to 'win' arguments and go about that by setting out to ** the person they're discussing with off. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9425	Posted - 2015.05.05 13:28:00 - [224] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: aghblrugausdnawuebdfuabwdedauwdubgueberauwduawfbwauebyfhgurblrurlburblrubhrblrubhrgualbrughrlgurbhrlgurghbrugr I am a huge jackass Look guys! I can argue like nothi! Read it. Think about it. Grow up. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2960	Posted - 2015.05.05 13:33:00 - [225] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: aghblrugausdnawuebdfuabwdedauwdubgueberauwduawfbwauebyfhgurblrurlburblrubhrblrubhrgualbrughrlgurbhrlgurghbrugr I am a huge jackass Look guys! I can argue like nothi! Read it. Think about it. Grow up. Ah yes, tell me to grow up after you try your damnedest to make me angry. Put yourself WAY up on that moral high ground. Do you need someone to pat your back for you? You "won" by making the other person not willing to engage with you anymore Nothi! you should feel proud that you took a debate and reduced it to namecalling and other juvenile idiocy! Isn't this the exact reaction you wanted? No? Maybe you shouldn't have tried to elicit that response then. If you don't want to discuss things with me in a respectful manner, I have no interest in discussing things with you in a respectful manner. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9425	Posted - 2015.05.05 13:36:00 - [226] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: You are taking my words out of context Nothi and twisting them to say things that I haven't, you are compounding this by overly simplifying your own arguments so that it seems like I'm attacking the whole idea instead of the specifics. This is called strawmanning. I must repeat what kirk has said, for someone who apparently prides themselves on being a voice of reason, you are debating in extremely poor taste and have seemingly set out to try and make me 'wrong'. I have been talking about your statement of hitting weapons performance instead of their dps. To me, performance means things like kick, dispersion etcetera. Making a weapons performance function badly outside of its 'intended' range because reasons is a terrible approach to balance, the correct metric should be a properly scaled range vs dps function. My argument (at the moment) is a quite simple one. A Rail Rifle which works well in close quarters is a Fine Rifle. An Assault Rifle which works well at range is a Fine Rifle. Fine Rifles afford their users massive advantage over all other types of combatants. Massive advantages aren't good for balance. MINA Longstrike wrote: Cherrypick and strawman harder prick. These 'points' are distractionary ad-hominem, non-discussion and a logical fallacy wombo-combo: being outright loaded questions, false dilemas, strawmanning and more. This is an incredibly manipulative line of 'argument', you are trying to avoid engaging with my points by instead calling me a hypocrite and criticizing me. Try actually defending your arguments instead of attacking people who see flaws with them. I have never said anything about ar514, ever, and I will not discuss this with you. I do not see any progression to this discussion until you stop littering it with logical fallacies and quoting me out of context, I have tried to engage with you in good nature, you are clearly not interested in extending the same courtesy. If you're trying to ** me off by acting like a jackass you've succeeded you can have alllllllllllll the internet points for it. There's no logical fallacy. Your words: MINA Longstrike wrote:** Harming the vast majority of the playerbase to content a much smaller faction is bad and wrong. If the vast majority of the players are running around in FoTM gear, would it be bad and wrong to nerf FoTM gear? The point here is that your argument is poor. Balance doesn't care about minorities or majorities. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2960	Posted - 2015.05.05 13:42:00 - [227] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: There's no logical fallacy. Your words: MINA Longstrike wrote: Harming the vast majority of the playerbase to content a much smaller faction is bad and wrong . If the vast majority of the players is running around in FoTM gear, what happens when we nerf FoTM gear? Yep, my words. Removed completely and wholly from their context. It's almost like when you remove things from the surrounding context you can misconstrue them to mean absolutely anything you want them to mean. Especially when you oversimplify your own arguments so as to remove the possibility of disagreeing with them without seeming absolutely insane and ridiculous. Why are you still trying to argue this with me nothi, I already told you, you 'won', I no longer want to discuss things with you. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1022	Posted - 2015.05.05 13:47:00 - [228] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The gallente rifles suffer from one single major problem. and one minor problem. the minor problem is scrams out-DPS them. The major problem is every weapon in the game except for the HMG and shotgun outrange them. it's pretty much that simple. None of the rifles will ever be balanced, because all of the rifles use different balancing metrics. Until the balancing metrics are streamlined (and hard rules applied) then the AR will never get balanced against the other rifles simply because it has no range. lets stop BSing each other here.... just increase the damage already. if it turns out to be too good, then we either tone the damage down again or make its effective range 40m to 50m or 60m, instead of 70m
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8390	Posted - 2015.05.05 14:01:00 - [229] - Quote You can fine rifle the game and separate out the specialist and heavy weapons for other roles and balance points. Citing fine rifles and not msking that distinction obfuscates the issue. A battle rifle is a battle rifle is a battle rifle. The decision of which to puck should be according to the character of playstyle, not according to the revolving door of superiority weve had for two years. The problem adipem is you're not allowing for variant in your argument. Fine rifle is an excellent metric for main battle rifles so long as there is a logical curcurve to range and DPS that is universal. You are using it in the context of ALL weapons conforming to fine rifle. Unfortunately this is where most shooters fall flat. Weapons for different roles like nade launchers cannot be balanced as rifles and be usable as distinct and discrete units on the field. Bluntly while I do disagree with Mina ogon a few pounts, usually frequently and loudly, your fine rifle argument fails in DUST due to profiles alone. Even if you make every rifle a baseline 450 DPS the profiles will year that DPS count up or down eildly based on profile. I made this point earlier. Guess you missed/ignored it. But Realistically at this point your arguments are pushing past useful and more into the realm of fantasy. Please come back to reality for a moment so the conversation can continue. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9427	Posted - 2015.05.05 16:51:00 - [230] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: You can fine rifle the game and separate out the specialist and heavy weapons for other roles and balance points. Citing fine rifles and not making that distinction obfuscates the issue. A battle rifle is a battle rifle is a battle rifle. I disagree. I believe that balance is better off without jack-of-all-trade Fine Rifles. Long-range rifles performing slightly worse than short-range rifles in close quarters might balance out in an Assault v Assault or Assault v Heavy setting. But it doesn't balance out with low-HP units. To a Scout, slightly worse performance translates to dying at, say, 0.75 seconds rather than 0.50 seconds. To a unit who's frantically trying to chop away at a hitpoint gap of 200% to 300%, that 0.25 seconds is imperceptible. CQC Scouts dying to a long-range Assaults in close quarters is just as imbalanced as CQC Assaults dying to long-range Assaults in close quarters. There's more at play here than weapon balance; role balance is also at issue. We toss around more palatable terms like "battle rifle" or "service rifle", but the reality is, effective-at-every-range Fine Rifles are bad for balance and bad for battlefield diversity. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 657	Posted - 2015.05.05 17:57:00 - [231] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Did Rail Rifle usage drop once it lost its Fine Rifle status? Absolutely. But did it break? Absolutely not. Despite its new-found lack of CQC prowess, the Rail Rifle remains a very popular weapon; it's presently in the Top 3. It doesnt matter how popular it is, its junk now. It cant compete in close range against anything (I'd rather have an SMG), and it cant compete at long range with the ASCR/SCR. At its absolute longest range, as you start losing damage from exceeding your optimal, it might win over an ASCR but still gets wrecked by the tactical, and in addition you start losing any realistic chance of killing whatever you are shooting at before it gets into cover because of long range damage loss. I mean sure, against run of the mill pub idiots, its still fine, but if you are fighting against someone who is dangerous, at any range, I would rather have any of the other rifles, without exception, than the breach rail rifle. Also about nerfing other weapons short range performance to buff the AR: this also buffs other short range weapons, such as the HMG, shotgun, every sidearm, mass driver, etc. I'd rather have AR balance be handled by making changes to the AR itself.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10585	Posted - 2015.05.05 18:06:00 - [232] - Quote Vesta, it not being able to compete with the Scrambler is more so on the fault of the Scramblers being OP currently than the Rail Rifle sucking. The next hotfix will tone Scramblers down. Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8408	Posted - 2015.05.05 18:08:00 - [233] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: You can fine rifle the game and separate out the specialist and heavy weapons for other roles and balance points. Citing fine rifles and not making that distinction obfuscates the issue. A battle rifle is a battle rifle is a battle rifle. randomized crap having little/nothing to do with my post. Did you bother to read my posts on the topic or did you skip right to "Oh look, Mina posted after, let's make her madder by posting ad hominem. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 657	Posted - 2015.05.05 18:09:00 - [234] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Vesta, it not being able to compete with the Scrambler is more so on the fault of the Scramblers being OP currently than the Rail Rifle sucking. The next hotfix will tone Scramblers down. I agree, but its still a big component in the current balance for the breach RR.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9430	Posted - 2015.05.05 18:11:00 - [235] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: You can fine rifle the game and separate out the specialist and heavy weapons for other roles and balance points. Citing fine rifles and not making that distinction obfuscates the issue. A battle rifle is a battle rifle is a battle rifle. randomized crap having little/nothing to do with my post. Did you bother to read my posts on the topic or did you skip right to "Oh look, Mina posted after, let's make her madder by posting ad hominem. Look up "ad hominem" in a dictionary, then point out for me the "ad hominem" in my post. You claim that my position on Fine Rifles is removed from reality; I wholeheartedly disagree. You claim that Fine Rifles are fine so long as "there is a logical curve to range and DPS that is universal"; I wholeheartedly disagree. There's nothing fine about Fine Rifles. In my post, I explain some of the reasons why. I've not personally attacked you or Mina or anyone else. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8408	Posted - 2015.05.05 18:17:00 - [236] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: You can fine rifle the game and separate out the specialist and heavy weapons for other roles and balance points. Citing fine rifles and not making that distinction obfuscates the issue. A battle rifle is a battle rifle is a battle rifle. randomized crap having little/nothing to do with my post. Did you bother to read my posts on the topic or did you skip right to "Oh look, Mina posted after, let's make her madder by posting ad hominem. Look up "ad hominem" in a dictionary, then point out for me the "ad hominem" in my post. You claim the my position on Fine Rifles is removed from reality; I wholeheartedly disagree. You claim that Fine Rifles are fine so long as "there is a logical curve to range and DPS that is universal"; I wholeheartedly disagree. now prove your thesis. Disagreeing is not enough unless you care to walk away. I have presented arguments (which you ignored) and I have made a post (which you responded to by cherrypicking bits you wanted to poke at while ignoring the rest, and the context, absolutely doing everything Mina accuses you of) stating a position. You don't get to simply choose parts of an argument to pick apart without addressing the rest of the argument in context. Oh and "fine rifle" is a lie. CCP's profiles alone on the weapons will create four WILDLY different performances overall even if you set every base stat identically. You like the Nerf/buff merry-go-round. Some of us think it's idiotic and would like the rifles to follow a logical progression so that choice of weapon reprersents a choice of playstyle rather than a shoehorn of "You must do it this way" There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9430	Posted - 2015.05.05 18:30:00 - [237] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Oh and "fine rifle" is a lie. CCP's profiles alone on the weapons will create four WILDLY different performances overall even if you set every base stat identically. You like the Nerf/buff merry-go-round. Some of us think it's idiotic and would like the rifles to follow a logical progression so that choice of weapon reprersents a choice of playstyle rather than a shoehorn of "You must do it this way" Variations in performance might be "wildly different" and readily observed at 1000+ HP, but they are imperceptible at 200-300HP. Again, we're talking about TTKs measuring in fractions of a second. It takes 5 Rail Rifle blasts to kill a Scout; damage profiles, range profiles, the race of the scout ... none of these matter. It takes 5 blasts. If those 5 blasts are readily delivered from the hip in CQC, they will be, just like they were before, and the CQC Scout will be at significant disadvantage against long-range rail rifleman in CQC. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 657	Posted - 2015.05.05 18:50:00 - [238] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Oh and "fine rifle" is a lie. CCP's profiles alone on the weapons will create four WILDLY different performances overall even if you set every base stat identically. You like the Nerf/buff merry-go-round. Some of us think it's idiotic and would like the rifles to follow a logical progression so that choice of weapon reprersents a choice of playstyle rather than a shoehorn of "You must do it this way" Variations in performance might be "wildly different" and readily observed at 1000+ HP, but they are imperceptible at 200-300HP. Again, we're talking about TTKs measuring in fractions of a second. It takes ~5 Rail Rifle blasts to kill a Scout; damage profiles, range profiles, the race of the scout ... none of these matter. It takes ~5 blasts. If those ~5 blasts are readily delivered from the hip in CQC, they will be, just like they were before, and the CQC Scout will be at significant disadvantage against long-range units in CQC. The only ways to balance low-HP Scouts against Fine Rifles would be to normalize HP levels, buff alpha weaponry, or nerf fine rifles across the board. None of these options are efficient, and all of these options run high risk of doing more harm to balance than good. Can we define the concept of Fine Rifles again here? Or point me to where its defined, and what the alternatives are? All I get so far is that its a set of rifles that are largely identical aside from dps v. range which can basically be graphed against each other in a linear and inverse progression. Not sure this matches the Dust situation since actual behavior of the gun is pretty different for each rifle.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9430	Posted - 2015.05.05 19:08:00 - [239] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Oh and "fine rifle" is a lie. CCP's profiles alone on the weapons will create four WILDLY different performances overall even if you set every base stat identically. You like the Nerf/buff merry-go-round. Some of us think it's idiotic and would like the rifles to follow a logical progression so that choice of weapon reprersents a choice of playstyle rather than a shoehorn of "You must do it this way" Variations in performance might be "wildly different" and readily observed at 1000+ HP, but they are imperceptible at 200-300HP. Again, we're talking about TTKs measuring in fractions of a second. It takes ~5 Rail Rifle blasts to kill a Scout; damage profiles, range profiles, the race of the scout ... none of these matter. It takes ~5 blasts. If those ~5 blasts are readily delivered from the hip in CQC, they will be, just like they were before, and the CQC Scout will be at significant disadvantage against long-range units in CQC. The only ways to balance low-HP Scouts against Fine Rifles would be to normalize HP levels, buff alpha weaponry, or nerf fine rifles across the board. None of these options are efficient, and all of these options run high risk of doing more harm to balance than good. Can we define the concept of Fine Rifles again here? Or point me to where its defined, and what the alternatives are? All I get so far is that its a set of rifles that are largely identical aside from dps v. range which can basically be graphed against each other in a linear and inverse progression. Not sure this matches the Dust situation since actual behavior of the gun is pretty different for each rifle. Fine Rifles (aka service rifles, battle rifles, every-range rifles) Rifles which deal damage effectively and reliably from 0m to maximum range without mechanical limitations/restrictions to hipfire, dispersion, falloff, kick, etc. They are balanced against one another by a inverse scale of DPS to Range. Functionally speaking, the 75m rail rifle is just as reliable from the hip as the 40m AR; what sets the AR apart from the RR in CQC is that the AR's damage output exceeds the RR's. If an AR unit and an RR unit have similar HP profiles and are fighting at 60m, the RR unit will win far more often than not. If an AR unit and RR unit have similar HP profiles and are fighting at 20m, the AR unit will win far more often than not. As maximum range goes up, DPS goes down. ^ That's the best I can do off-hand :-) Example: For quite some time, the Rail Rifle was extremely reliable from the hip. Rattati varied from Fine Rifle model when implemented an increase in hipfire dispersion. This mechanical limitation cut away at its effectiveness in CQC. The RR remains competitive at longer range engagements and when aiming-down-sights, but its users are now best served by a sidearm when caught off-guard in close quarters. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Tweaksz Titans of Phoenix RUST415 217	Posted - 2015.05.05 21:19:00 - [240] - Quote The matter of fact is rattati knows the AR is underperforming in it's niche and needs a buff nothing you will say will change his mind. It is obvious to everyone else I just can't understand why Nothi is so salty about a minor dps change. Pill Popping Madness!

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9430	Posted - 2015.05.05 21:34:00 - [241] - Quote Tweaksz wrote: The matter of fact is rattati knows the AR is underperforming in it's niche and needs a buff nothing you will say will change his mind. It is obvious to everyone else I just can't understand why Nothi is so salty about a minor dps change. Far from salty. Doesn't make a 'bit of difference to me, so long as the next move isn't to buff long-range rifle performance at short range ... so long-range riflemen can better "defend themselves" against short-range riflemen's ARs in close quarters. Do you see what I'm getting at? If the AR needs fixing, there's more than one way to fix it. For example, nerfing armor plates would improve AR performance relative to the CR, ACR and ARR. Maor Damage isn't the only available option. PS: My AR skilltree is maxed. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Mahal Daj Mahal Tactical Enterprises 148	Posted - 2015.05.05 22:27:00 - [242] - Quote In my opinion, the rifles are ok (and will always need consideration) but a larger issue comes from the levels: prior to the introduction of the Rail and Combat Rifles, the sniper rifle was king of range, the laser rifle was the suppressor, the AR(plasma) was the brawler, the ScramRifle was the designated marksman rifle (the SMG was once close to the AR), the. The scrambler pistol would wax you at 15m, and the. You're in the realm of nova knives. Now that these inter-echelon rifles have been added, they favor additional range. This wouldn't be too big a deal if it wasn't for level design. Part 2 of my hypothesis: the range and limited CQC ability of the rifles themselves is ok, however the heights and over watches and choke points are geared toward these ranged weapons, and without a drop ship, OR -and here's the punch line: a ranged weapon- there is no recourse to these ranged weapons. Maybe we can see more underground, interior, or maze-like levels which could balance the situational advantages of the weapons. Alternatively, considering the superheated channel the plasma would likely create, sustained, linear, conduits, which could increase the efficiency over distance over time (kind of like the laser rifle) Cheerio, keep fighting mercs. See my Post on Crashes: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2413361#post2413361
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 658	Posted - 2015.05.05 23:48:00 - [243] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Tweaksz wrote: The matter of fact is rattati knows the AR is underperforming in it's niche and needs a buff nothing you will say will change his mind. It is obvious to everyone else I just can't understand why Nothi is so salty about a minor dps change. Far from salty. Doesn't make a 'bit of difference to me, so long as the next move isn't to buff long-range rifle performance at short range ... so long-range riflemen can better "defend themselves" against short-range riflemen's ARs in close quarters. Do you see what I'm getting at? If the AR needs fixing, there's more than one way to fix it. For example, nerfing armor plates would improve AR performance relative to the CR, ACR and ARR. Maor Damage isn't the only available option. PS: My AR skilltree is maxed. I think this point bears repeating: the current armor meta will make things like the AR look very poor. The fact that the ASCR was also underperforming and the only outlier to this was the scrambler just speaks to how dominant armor meta is right now, and buffing these weapons is a direct nerf to shields, which are already having a tough time. Be careful when you buff anti shield rifles, the ASCR might be a bit overpowered against shields post buff, though its doing fine against armor tank.
Tweaksz Titans of Phoenix RUST415 217	Posted - 2015.05.06 01:35:00 - [244] - Quote Why do people still think armor/shield meta is bad? I have personally used a dual-tank fit(gallente) where my shields were 259 with a 31 regen and 2.5 sec delay and very few times did my shields get depleted. Why? Simply because I was using shields to how they are supposed to be applied. Using cover and using my quick regen to punish people with less recovery in a firefight. Caldari have this and way more at their disposal with rail tech backing up this kind of tactic. The problem is people stack extenders with zero regulation modules thinking they are going to tank like an armor suit fitted with straight up armor plates. If you stack plates on a suit you sacrifice quit a bit of regen increasing downtime by quite a lot. The shield/armor meta is fine and should have no input in this discussion. Pill Popping Madness!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9434	Posted - 2015.05.06 01:40:00 - [245] - Quote Tweaksz wrote: The shield/armor meta is fine and should have no input in this discussion. Check out that low slot diversity. Top 10 Highs 4 Shield Mods 3 Damage Mod 2 Biotics Mods 1 EWAR Mods 6/10 - Not HP Related Top 10 Lows 9 Brick Mods 1 Biotic Mod 1/10 - Not HP Related Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18766	Posted - 2015.05.06 01:54:00 - [246] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Tweaksz wrote: The shield/armor meta is fine and should have no input in this discussion. Check out that low slot diversity. Top 10 Highs 4 Shield Mods 3 Damage Mod 2 Biotics Mods 1 EWAR Mods Top 10 Lows 9 Brick Mods 1 Biotic Mod Highs: 6/10 - Not HP Related Lows: 1/10 - Not HP Related PS: The predominant "stack brick" meta has everything to do with AR performance. What else is worth using in the low slots on non scout suits? Kin Cats are about all that I would be willing to sub out a module for. "MIN MAXING! MIN MAXING! I'M BETTER AT IT THAN YOU!" - Mobius Wyvern
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9434	Posted - 2015.05.06 02:22:00 - [247] - Quote True Adamance wrote: What else is worth using in the low slots on non scout suits? Kin Cats are about all that I would be willing to sub out a module for. Lots of good stuff to run in lows, but nothing quite as good as brick. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18767	Posted - 2015.05.06 02:30:00 - [248] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: True Adamance wrote: What else is worth using in the low slots on non scout suits? Kin Cats are about all that I would be willing to sub out a module for. Lots of good stuff to run in lows, but nothing quite as good as brick. I'm quite literally not able to identify anything I need beyond my Ferros and Reppers that I need as an Amarrian. Kin Cats maybe but nothing else. "MIN MAXING! MIN MAXING! I'M BETTER AT IT THAN YOU!" - Mobius Wyvern
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9434	Posted - 2015.05.06 02:56:00 - [249] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: True Adamance wrote: What else is worth using in the low slots on non scout suits? Kin Cats are about all that I would be willing to sub out a module for. Lots of good stuff to run in lows, but nothing quite as good as brick. I'm quite literally not able to identify anything I need beyond my Ferros and Reppers that I need as an Amarrian. Kin Cats maybe but nothing else. Most races and frames share in your dilemma. Damps, range extenders, shield regs, card regs and code breakers all offer benefits, but those benefits can't compete with the benefits of brick. Brick is that good. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 659	Posted - 2015.05.06 04:03:00 - [250] - Quote Tweaksz wrote: Why do people still think armor/shield meta is bad? I have personally used a dual-tank fit(gallente) where my shields were 259 with a 31 regen and 2.5 sec delay and very few times did my shields get depleted. Why? Simply because I was using shields to how they are supposed to be applied. Using cover and using my quick regen to punish people with less recovery in a firefight. Caldari have this and way more at their disposal with rail tech backing up this kind of tactic. The problem is people stack extenders with zero regulation modules thinking they are going to tank like an armor suit fitted with straight up armor plates. If you stack plates on a suit you sacrifice quit a bit of regen increasing downtime by quite a lot. The shield/armor meta is fine and should have no input in this discussion. Shield/armor meta is close to balanced for individuals, but incredibly imbalanced at the team level. When people are talking about buffing an anti shield weapon, when the scrambler and ASCR are already very effective (too effective, if the upcoming scrambler nerf is any indication) at murdering shield suits without much effort unless they brick dual tank, its worth adding to the discussion that #1: anti shield weapons seem worse than they actually are in the current climate (because real shield tanking is not used as much as it 'should' be if things were balanced) and #2: buffs to shield weapons are just going to make the shield/armor imbalanced worse. So yes, shield armor meta conditions should have input in this discussion, since the discussion is essentially about making yet another anti shield weapon stronger and making yet another armor dropsuit better.



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