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![Demandred Moores Demandred Moores](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Demandred Moores
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
55
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Posted - 2015.05.02 08:54:00 -
[121] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets.
Smart ideas? I have a few. But it's mostly a rough idea based on bringing similar classes of weapon closer together performance-wise. IE breach weapons perform similarly, assaults perform similarly, bursts, et al. What buffs would you consider unreasonable? Honestly I personally would like to see ranges pushed outward 10-20m optimal on most battle rifles given the framerate improvements. Generally where the gallente rifles fail is purely reach. They can get chopped too easily by distant opponents. a gallente weapon should always perform best on a gallente suit. if range is a problem then gallente need a way to get into range better. my suggestion isnt to do anything to the AR but to look at the gallente suits in general and how they fail at providing a viable platform for their own weapons. adjust gallente mobility: increase sprint speed and decrease stamina regen. end result: gallente end up able to close distance rapidly, but cannot sprint frquently. this means they can get into or out of a fight quickly, but they cant run around the map forever like minmatar can, nor run as long as amarr can without stopping for stamina regen. why do this? it actually is a racial characteristic of gallente in eve that they balance both speed and armor. we've covered this in the past when we tried getting kincats moved to high slots. this would be an alternative I don't see how the gal assault fails to do this. Maybe sqd up and I'll show you how it's done. Try using 2 feroscales one reactive and two reps. You will be mobile enough to fire and get closer through the fight by otr repping them and moving from cover to cover to get in range and keep dps on then so they can't keep up with your reps. Play like a gallente and it will perform like you wouldn't believe. |
![Edgar Reinhart Edgar Reinhart](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Edgar Reinhart
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
100
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Posted - 2015.05.02 09:52:00 -
[122] - Quote
It's been said before and it may all just be personal perceptions but I come down on the side of the people who feel that the 'problem' isn't necessarily with the AR itself. More with the fact that they're out performed across all tiers by the assault variants of the other rifles.
Maybe it's not the case, maybe it's just because of the armour meta, but it certainly feels that way when playing the game. I'm a lower level player and this seems particularly true of the militia AScR vs the other militia variants which is why I don't feel it's entirely down to the AR weakness against armour vs the amount of armour stacking on the field.
It's a difficult one because if the AR is supposed to be 'king' of CQC then it does probably need a buff vs the other assault variants however it isn't going to need much of a buff in any of range,rof, dps etc to begin competing with, and outperforming, the HMG, which isn't right, and will inevitably lead to another round of the buff, buff, nerf merry-go-round.
Either the other Assault variants and the HMG need to be slightly adjusted around the current state of the AR or the AR and HMG need to be adjusted around the other Assault variants but it's a very difficult one to call because of the amount of variables involved. |
![Aeon Amadi Aeon Amadi](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Aeon Amadi
Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback
9908
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Posted - 2015.05.02 10:04:00 -
[123] - Quote
Edgar Reinhart wrote:It's been said before and it may all just be personal perceptions but I come down on the side of the people who feel that the 'problem' isn't necessarily with the AR itself. More with the fact that they're out performed across all tiers by the assault variants of the other rifles.
Maybe it's not the case, maybe it's just because of the armour meta, but it certainly feels that way when playing the game. I'm a lower level player and this seems particularly true of the militia AScR vs the other militia variants which is why I don't feel it's entirely down to the AR weakness against armour vs the amount of armour stacking on the field.
It's a difficult one because if the AR is supposed to be 'king' of CQC then it does probably need a buff vs the other assault variants however it isn't going to need much of a buff in any of range,rof, dps etc to begin competing with, and outperforming, the HMG, which isn't right, and will inevitably lead to another round of the buff, buff, nerf merry-go-round.
Either the other Assault variants and the HMG need to be slightly adjusted around the current state of the AR or the AR and HMG need to be adjusted around the other Assault variants but it's a very difficult one to call because of the amount of variables involved.
Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself.
You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
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![Monty Mole Clone Monty Mole Clone](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_amarr_128.jpg)
Monty Mole Clone
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
289
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Posted - 2015.05.02 10:53:00 -
[124] - Quote
increase mag size and reload speed, 100 rounds with a 9 second reload before skliis
Dust 514 hurts
Go Fabulous or go home
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![DeathwindRising DeathwindRising](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1017
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Posted - 2015.05.02 11:31:00 -
[125] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:
I don't see how the gal assault fails to do this. Maybe sqd up and I'll show you how it's done. Try using 2 feroscales one reactive and two reps. You will be mobile enough to fire and get closer through the fight by otr repping them and moving from cover to cover to get in range and keep dps on then so they can't keep up with your reps. Play like a gallente and it will perform like you wouldn't believe.
not really. gallente mobility is the same as caldari. i cant close distant in my cal assault without using kincats. partly because of the range im fighting at, and partly because caldari are slow. So i know that gallente are even worse off.
what youre suggesting only works when cover is present. this isnt where gallente suffer. gallente suffer when there is a lack of cover and must travel great distance, such as when fighting caldari at long range. if you use ferro plates, you wont have enough hp to get into range.
Tweaksz wrote: Reminds me of how MWDs go hand in hand with gallente blaster dps fits in EVE.
exactly.
Aeon Amadi wrote: Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself.
that wouldnt do anything except make the problem potentially worse. imagine range enhancing mods on rail rifles... |
![Stefan Stahl Stefan Stahl](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1156
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Posted - 2015.05.02 11:40:00 -
[126] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:adjust gallente mobility:
increase sprint speed and decrease stamina regen.
end result: gallente end up able to close distance rapidly, but cannot sprint frquently. this means they can get into or out of a fight quickly, but they cant run around the map forever like minmatar can, nor run as long as amarr can without stopping for stamina regen. I very much support this.
I think this design was the reason why KinCats had a much higher efficacy back in the beta. Instead of nerfing stamina regen they decided to nerf the KinCats and thus we arrive at the current situation.
If we ever get to clean up stamina, stamina regen and walking-, strafe- and sprint speed this should definitely be implemented properly. Right now I could see an increased spread between walk and sprint speed for Gallente Assault. That would encourage fits that are fast in a straight line in contrast to Minmatar fittings, which should be comparatively better at the wiggle-wiggle rather than top speed. |
![Stormblade Green Stormblade Green](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
Stormblade Green
KnightKiller's inc.
74
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Posted - 2015.05.02 11:48:00 -
[127] - Quote
Seed Dren wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets.
Smart ideas? Damage is fine, is the range. IMO some assume is ok because is intended range is for mid range to short but what ppl fail to realize is that not evryone has the sp to skill into another mid to long range weapon to counter say rail rifles or lasers. That's where the disparity happens. Me personally am ok with it because I have weapons to counter rails and lasers. But I have the sp to do it. And how a lot of maps are set up they favor those weapons. so it becomes a who has the best mid to long range weapon.
Simple solution find a way to get up close and personal with them.... it is not that hard....
One might say... I'm very skilled... yet I'm his apprentice... So what does that say about my mentor?
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![Aeon Amadi Aeon Amadi](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Aeon Amadi
Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback
9911
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Posted - 2015.05.02 16:56:00 -
[128] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote: Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself.
that wouldnt do anything except make the problem potentially worse. imagine range enhancing mods on rail rifles...
If you increase range on the rifle it's going to cause problems. If you offer up a module that not everyone would use, then it'd help the people that need it.
You have a rail rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good range, so what's the point in adding more? Long-range combat.
You have an assault rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good damage, so what's the point in adding more? High damage CQC fighting.
It's appealing to the rifle's design in a more fluent way but offering both a way out and bridge into other areas if need-be. The Rail Rifle can already fit damage mods, so it sacrifices nothing. The Assault Rifle doesn't have that same opportunity. Doesn't matter how many damage mods you add onto it you will only ever be good at CQC fighting.
You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
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![Knightshade Belladonna Knightshade Belladonna](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/female_gallente_128.jpg)
Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
1315
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Posted - 2015.05.02 19:05:00 -
[129] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets.
Smart ideas? I have a few. But it's mostly a rough idea based on bringing similar classes of weapon closer together performance-wise. IE breach weapons perform similarly, assaults perform similarly, bursts, et al. What buffs would you consider unreasonable? Honestly I personally would like to see ranges pushed outward 10-20m optimal on most battle rifles given the framerate improvements. Generally where the gallente rifles fail is purely reach. They can get chopped too easily by distant opponents. a gallente weapon should always perform best on a gallente suit. if range is a problem then gallente need a way to get into range better. my suggestion isnt to do anything to the AR but to look at the gallente suits in general and how they fail at providing a viable platform for their own weapons. adjust gallente mobility: increase sprint speed and decrease stamina regen. end result: gallente end up able to close distance rapidly, but cannot sprint frquently. this means they can get into or out of a fight quickly, but they cant run around the map forever like minmatar can, nor run as long as amarr can without stopping for stamina regen. why do this? it actually is a racial characteristic of gallente in eve that they balance both speed and armor. we've covered this in the past when we tried getting kincats moved to high slots. this would be an alternative
yes, exactly.. best idea ever!!! that is how it should work, like in EVE, the gallente blaster boat fires up the mwd , get in range on his target and eats it for dinner. This is not even remotely possible on here... which is sad. I love the idea of high sprint speed with reduction of stamina regen.. it would be just like hitting that mwd and capping out.
instead , we are these slow armor tankers..with the close range gun,... that has no means to close the gap before getting blapped |
![Demandred Moores Demandred Moores](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Demandred Moores
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
55
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Posted - 2015.05.02 21:22:00 -
[130] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Demandred Moores wrote:
I don't see how the gal assault fails to do this. Maybe sqd up and I'll show you how it's done. Try using 2 feroscales one reactive and two reps. You will be mobile enough to fire and get closer through the fight by otr repping them and moving from cover to cover to get in range and keep dps on then so they can't keep up with your reps. Play like a gallente and it will perform like you wouldn't believe.
not really. gallente mobility is the same as caldari. i cant close distant in my cal assault without using kincats. partly because of the range im fighting at, and partly because caldari are slow. So i know that gallente are even worse off. what youre suggesting only works when cover is present. this isnt where gallente suffer. gallente suffer when there is a lack of cover and must travel great distance, such as when fighting caldari at long range. if you use ferro plates, you wont have enough hp to get into range. Tweaksz wrote: Reminds me of how MWDs go hand in hand with gallente blaster dps fits in EVE.
exactly. Aeon Amadi wrote: Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself.
that wouldnt do anything except make the problem potentially worse. imagine range enhancing mods on rail rifles... The gal is not supposed to compete in open mid range against a rail rifle. What I'm suggesting is to play how it was made to be played and you are wrong the feroscale will give you enough plus that 26 armour reps a second makes up for the sacrifice. I use it and it is very good. Unique1d also uses it and mostly at adv lvl and does great also. If you can't close the gap don't try to just take cover and defend the letter rendering that rr useless unless he chooses to fight your fight. Pick your engagement and use problem solving skills. But if you want me going 40-0 again with it every match by all means buff my weapon and I will see you back here calling for nerfs. |
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![Demandred Moores Demandred Moores](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Demandred Moores
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
55
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Posted - 2015.05.02 21:36:00 -
[131] - Quote
If you would like we can sync factional against each other and I'll give you a live demonstration of why a gal with a ar is in a good place. Recently many of my friends have switched back to the gal with ar. We have a blast, we're all vets with 70m plus sp and we all love it. I don't think I've ever seen weapons as balanced as this. Maybe the gal could use a slight sprint buff that may help you guys but other than that I still go 3-1 easily with it and find it fun to find ways to overcome it's disadvantages. The AR itself is in a very good place and the moderate amount of armour you can stack with the best reps lends a huge advantage to those with superior gun game as the suit is an armour based platform focused on being independent of logi support. I simply love where it's at right now and don't see a single valid complaint just that it can't compete at mid range with a rr which it shouldn't. All you have to do is pick your engagement. Defending points and providing excellent cqc is what it was made for and there is plenty of cover from mid range weapons on most every point so that rr can only get you if you let it or are rushed forcing you to step in its line of sight. The issue is you want it to perform in a way it never should. |
![Foehammerr Foehammerr](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Foehammerr
Dead Man's Game RUST415
182
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Posted - 2015.05.02 21:56:00 -
[132] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets.
Smart ideas? For one, it definitely needs an increase in total ammunition. Five magazines at level 4 ammo cap just isn't cutting it.
And for the closest range rifle, every other rifle performs too good at close range in comparison. It does nothing that makes it stand out as a rifle (an assault variant no less,) and a close quarters weapon to make it preferable to other weapons. It's absolutely mediocre.
De Opresso Liber
Beta Vet since 2/5/2013
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![Daddrobit Daddrobit](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
1442
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Posted - 2015.05.02 22:53:00 -
[133] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote: Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself.
that wouldnt do anything except make the problem potentially worse. imagine range enhancing mods on rail rifles... If you increase range on the rifle it's going to cause problems. If you offer up a module that not everyone would use, then it'd help the people that need it. You have a rail rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good range, so what's the point in adding more? Long-range combat. You have an assault rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good damage, so what's the point in adding more? High damage CQC fighting. It's appealing to the rifle's design in a more fluent way but offering both a way out and bridge into other areas if need-be. The Rail Rifle can already fit damage mods, so it sacrifices nothing. The Assault Rifle doesn't have that same opportunity. Doesn't matter how many damage mods you add onto it you will only ever be good at CQC fighting.
But it is a module everyone would use, people use the modules that benefit them the most, and it's a module that would benefit the long range weapons far more than it would the AR. Even if a complex only added 20%, that's only 8 meters optimal for an AR, but an ARR gets an extra 14 out of the same module. And suddenly the optimals are now even more extreme from 40 vs 72 to 48 vs 86. And it gets even worse vs the RR and ScR
It would be like back in beta where the sharpshooter skills actually gave extra range. It got taken out because everyone had it and if you didn't, you were almost guaranteed a dead man and CCP didn't like that.
Clean and simple, it needs something to boost its overall DPS, having a DPS advantage of 6.6% does not give it enough of an advantage over a weapon that can hit out for its full damage at nearly double the range while the AR flounders.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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![Aeon Amadi Aeon Amadi](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Aeon Amadi
Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback
9916
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Posted - 2015.05.02 23:13:00 -
[134] - Quote
Daddrobit wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote: Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself.
that wouldnt do anything except make the problem potentially worse. imagine range enhancing mods on rail rifles... If you increase range on the rifle it's going to cause problems. If you offer up a module that not everyone would use, then it'd help the people that need it. You have a rail rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good range, so what's the point in adding more? Long-range combat. You have an assault rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good damage, so what's the point in adding more? High damage CQC fighting. It's appealing to the rifle's design in a more fluent way but offering both a way out and bridge into other areas if need-be. The Rail Rifle can already fit damage mods, so it sacrifices nothing. The Assault Rifle doesn't have that same opportunity. Doesn't matter how many damage mods you add onto it you will only ever be good at CQC fighting. But it is a module everyone would use, people use the modules that benefit them the most, and it's a module that would benefit the long range weapons far more than it would the AR. Even if a complex only added 20%, that's only 8 meters optimal for an AR, but an ARR gets an extra 14 out of the same module. And suddenly the optimals are now even more extreme from 40 vs 72 to 48 vs 86. And it gets even worse vs the RR and ScR It would be like back in beta where the sharpshooter skills actually gave extra range. It got taken out because everyone had it and if you didn't, you were almost guaranteed a dead man and CCP didn't like that. Clean and simple, it needs something to boost its overall DPS, having a DPS advantage of 6.6% does not give it enough of an advantage over a weapon that can hit out for its full damage at nearly double the range while the AR flounders.
Eh, I suppose you're right... But even still, my point still stands with the Damage Amplifier conundrum. The AR needs to have a DPS high enough to warrant it's locked, low range because it cannot (I'll stress this) it -cannot- exceed it's range by any means whereas other weapons can at least keep their longer range and make up the DPS gap.
Thing is, I don't think anyone wants to see the AR's damage or RoF increased. So, what can we honestly do apart from 'feel good' differences like a different sight or handling?
You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
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![Topher Mellen Topher Mellen](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Topher Mellen
Scott-Mellen Corporation
185
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Posted - 2015.05.02 23:52:00 -
[135] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:PLAYSTTION wrote:Summa Militum wrote:This gun sucks. It used to be awesome. Get sharpshooter level 3 with it and then try it. It makes all the difference. If you likey after that, prof and higher sharpshooter are where to go. I have: Operation 5 Proficiency 5 Sharpshooter 5 Rapid Reload 5 Ammo Capacity 5 Fitting Optimization 5 Can tell you now that it doesn't make the Assault Rifle any better and the Gallente Assault Bonus doesn't make it any better either. Weapon is underwhelming in CQC and there's no clear 'I'm going to win' situations like you get with the Rail Rifle at range. This is 100% true and I can attest to everything he is saying. Also, to whoever the person that said Gallente and Caldari bonuses were good.... just lol dude. I'm actually going to do a video recording later today showing how having Sharpshooter 5 and Gallente Assault 5 has functionally no difference on dispersion - or if it does, how much of a difference. I've been sort of playing around with the AR on different suits and I'm not convinced that the Gallente Assault suit bonus even works, to be honest... I also have most of the dispersion skills maxed out. I'm 95% certain that the gallente assault dispersion bonus does not apply to the Ion Pistol or Assault Rifle. |
![Banjo Robertson Banjo Robertson](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Banjo Robertson
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
541
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Posted - 2015.05.03 01:48:00 -
[136] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Daddrobit wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote: Right right. S'why I feel that having range-enhancing modules might be the better way to go. Shake up the meta a little bit while not actually doing anything to the rifle itself.
that wouldnt do anything except make the problem potentially worse. imagine range enhancing mods on rail rifles... If you increase range on the rifle it's going to cause problems. If you offer up a module that not everyone would use, then it'd help the people that need it. You have a rail rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good range, so what's the point in adding more? Long-range combat. You have an assault rifle and you have the option to go with Damage or Range... You already have good damage, so what's the point in adding more? High damage CQC fighting. It's appealing to the rifle's design in a more fluent way but offering both a way out and bridge into other areas if need-be. The Rail Rifle can already fit damage mods, so it sacrifices nothing. The Assault Rifle doesn't have that same opportunity. Doesn't matter how many damage mods you add onto it you will only ever be good at CQC fighting. But it is a module everyone would use, people use the modules that benefit them the most, and it's a module that would benefit the long range weapons far more than it would the AR. Even if a complex only added 20%, that's only 8 meters optimal for an AR, but an ARR gets an extra 14 out of the same module. And suddenly the optimals are now even more extreme from 40 vs 72 to 48 vs 86. And it gets even worse vs the RR and ScR It would be like back in beta where the sharpshooter skills actually gave extra range. It got taken out because everyone had it and if you didn't, you were almost guaranteed a dead man and CCP didn't like that. Clean and simple, it needs something to boost its overall DPS, having a DPS advantage of 6.6% does not give it enough of an advantage over a weapon that can hit out for its full damage at nearly double the range while the AR flounders. Eh, I suppose you're right... But even still, my point still stands with the Damage Amplifier conundrum. The AR needs to have a DPS high enough to warrant it's locked, low range because it cannot (I'll stress this) it -cannot- exceed it's range by any means whereas other weapons can at least keep their longer range and make up the DPS gap. Thing is, I don't think anyone wants to see the AR's damage or RoF increased. So, what can we honestly do apart from 'feel good' differences like a different sight or handling?
RoF and clip size increase are what the AR needs while keeping all else the same. All other options will not be as effective at bringing this weapon where it needs to be.
And one thing that people seem to ignore is that, if you did have a range increasing module, instead of it being percentage based, it could just be a fixed number, like.. increase maximum range by 5 meters, instead of increase maximum range by 5%. But then again, I also think a range increasing module would be a bad idea. There is a reason why skills increasing range of weapons were removed from the game. |
![Genral69 death Genral69 death](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Genral69 death
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
212
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Posted - 2015.05.03 02:00:00 -
[137] - Quote
Not sure increasing the clip size would help. Its not very often I die due to my clip size when I run my assault rifle
General limited: warming failure to pay, may lead to death,massive amount of pain or even lose of family. Since 1995
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![Adipem Nothi Adipem Nothi](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
9392
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Posted - 2015.05.03 02:24:00 -
[138] - Quote
Banjo Robertson wrote:And one thing that people seem to ignore is that, if you did have a range increasing module, instead of it being percentage based, it could just be a fixed number, like.. increase maximum range by 5 meters, instead of increase maximum range by 5%. Which would increase shotgun optimal range from 4m to 9m. ![Shocked](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_shocked.png)
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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![thor424 thor424](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
thor424
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
113
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Posted - 2015.05.03 03:10:00 -
[139] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:PLAYSTTION wrote:Summa Militum wrote:This gun sucks. It used to be awesome. Get sharpshooter level 3 with it and then try it. It makes all the difference. If you likey after that, prof and higher sharpshooter are where to go. I have: Operation 5 Proficiency 5 Sharpshooter 5 Rapid Reload 5 Ammo Capacity 5 Fitting Optimization 5 Can tell you now that it doesn't make the Assault Rifle any better and the Gallente Assault Bonus doesn't make it any better either. Weapon is underwhelming in CQC and there's no clear 'I'm going to win' situations like you get with the Rail Rifle at range. This is 100% true and I can attest to everything he is saying. Also, to whoever the person that said Gallente and Caldari bonuses were good.... just lol dude. I'm actually going to do a video recording later today showing how having Sharpshooter 5 and Gallente Assault 5 has functionally no difference on dispersion - or if it does, how much of a difference. I've been sort of playing around with the AR on different suits and I'm not convinced that the Gallente Assault suit bonus even works, to be honest...
I don't notice any difference with the AR when I use it on suits other than the Gal Assault.
Thor's Emporium
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![Dreis ShadowWeaver Dreis ShadowWeaver](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Dreis ShadowWeaver
0uter.Heaven Back and Forth
3380
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Posted - 2015.05.03 04:27:00 -
[140] - Quote
JIMvc2 wrote:Another pointless thread. Go ahead and use your pathetic CR and RR. I started using the Duvolle Assault rifle and omg It melts dropsuits instantly. The CR and RR don't stand a chance = I must be really good since I went 25 and 3 = >:) Then got hate mail saying its OP and I'm HTFU butt hurt fool. I think I hate you.
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
My Minja Blog
Day 16/30 exclusively Minja
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![Banjo Robertson Banjo Robertson](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Banjo Robertson
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
543
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Posted - 2015.05.03 05:16:00 -
[141] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Banjo Robertson wrote:And one thing that people seem to ignore is that, if you did have a range increasing module, instead of it being percentage based, it could just be a fixed number, like.. increase maximum range by 5 meters, instead of increase maximum range by 5%. Which would increase shotgun optimal range from 4m to 9m. ![Shocked](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_shocked.png)
which is also why i said its a bad idea in general to have range extending modules ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) |
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![CCP Rattati CCP Rattati](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
21741
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Posted - 2015.05.03 06:03:00 -
[142] - Quote
there will never be range increasing modules
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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![jace silencerww jace silencerww](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
jace silencerww
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
161
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Posted - 2015.05.03 06:15:00 -
[143] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:It stands a buff, what do you want. I was playing around with it just yesterday, it feels right, I like the dispersion, kick is reasonable. ADS is fine to finish off weakened fleeing targets.
Smart ideas? lol yes it does reasons why - the BASIC scrambler rifle can out dps most of the assault rifles. think about this it has a 2.5 times charge shot and same rate of fire as a Duvolle Tacical ar and longer range. just look using max skills on all weapons.
weapon/ dps vs shield / dps vs armor / optimal range / effective range basic scr rifle - 897 / 520 / 75 meters / 96 meters basic assault rifle- 521 / 370.8 / 40 meters / 70 meters - hmm why the huge range gap? basic assult scr - 536 / 310.6 / 55 meters / 88 meters - lol it does more to armor than it says. duvollle assault rifle- 573 / 408 / 40 meters / 70 meters - thought proto weapons had slightly more opt & eff range guess not. duvolle tact ar- 923 / 657 / 61 meters / 90 meters - so it takes a pro tact ar to beat the basic scr? hmm wonder about pro scr r viziam scr rifle - 987 / 572 / 75 meters / 96 meters - I really doubt it does that little to armor.
so yea looking at the kill feeds I see way more scr rifle kills than any other weapon. most will say "it has an overheat" lol just look at it. think about this using max skills on an basic Amarr assault suit with the basic scr you can fire 5 shots for the same heat build up as 4 . the cooldown is the same fire 5 shots cools down as fast as 4 shots. so looking back has greater range same rof as a assault tact ar and OH yea the 2.5 times damage charge shot lol the assault rifles do need a little buff or just alittle longer range
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![jerrmy12 kahoalii jerrmy12 kahoalii](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
jerrmy12 kahoalii
G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance
1679
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Posted - 2015.05.03 07:08:00 -
[144] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:there will never be range increasing modules >tfw you will never have a range extension module >you will never have lower range weapons be effective in a slightly larger range >you will never use short range weapons to pwn players from med range
Closed beta vet. Master troll. No lifer. /Moon'er. /sun tolerator and visitor. Praise the Moon \o/
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![Sleepy Shadow Sleepy Shadow](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Sleepy Shadow
Qualified Scrub
354
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Posted - 2015.05.03 07:44:00 -
[145] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:a gallente weapon should always perform best on a gallente suit.
if range is a problem then gallente need a way to get into range better.
my suggestion isnt to do anything to the AR but to look at the gallente suits in general and how they fail at providing a viable platform for their own weapons.
adjust gallente mobility:
increase sprint speed and decrease stamina regen.
end result: gallente end up able to close distance rapidly, but cannot sprint frquently. this means they can get into or out of a fight quickly, but they cant run around the map forever like minmatar can, nor run as long as amarr can without stopping for stamina regen.
why do this? it actually is a racial characteristic of gallente in eve that they balance both speed and armor. we've covered this in the past when we tried getting kincats moved to high slots. this would be an alternative
While this should be the case with Gallente it does nothing to help the AR. It does me no good to get in range if my weapon is still outperformed by the other rifles. Why should I madly dash towards my inevitable doom? Speed works with the shotgun as it has high alpha and can 1-2 shot most suits, it is also supported by scouts low profile so your chances of getting in range is increased. The AR on the other hand doesnGÇÖt have anything going for it.
AR should be king of the rifles within 40 metres. Increase damage and/or ROF but dramatically drop damage beyond 40 metres. It should be a beast in CQC but clearly less effective outside its intended range.
If that doesnGÇÖt sit well with people then all the other rifles need to be toned down in CQC. I should feel confident holding my AR if I have closed the distance and IGÇÖm fighting someone with a Rail Rifle.
=ƒÿ¦
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![Seed Dren Seed Dren](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Seed Dren
Helix Order Learning Alliance
193
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Posted - 2015.05.03 07:46:00 -
[146] - Quote
I'm happy with one or the other. More damage on cqc or more erange.
Amarr assualt + shotgun + hellfire= illuminati confirmed
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![jace silencerww jace silencerww](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
jace silencerww
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
161
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Posted - 2015.05.03 08:55:00 -
[147] - Quote
Sleepy Shadow wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:a gallente weapon should always perform best on a gallente suit.
if range is a problem then gallente need a way to get into range better.
my suggestion isnt to do anything to the AR but to look at the gallente suits in general and how they fail at providing a viable platform for their own weapons.
adjust gallente mobility:
increase sprint speed and decrease stamina regen.
end result: gallente end up able to close distance rapidly, but cannot sprint frquently. this means they can get into or out of a fight quickly, but they cant run around the map forever like minmatar can, nor run as long as amarr can without stopping for stamina regen.
why do this? it actually is a racial characteristic of gallente in eve that they balance both speed and armor. we've covered this in the past when we tried getting kincats moved to high slots. this would be an alternative While this should be the case with Gallente it does nothing to help the AR. It does me no good to get in range if my weapon is still outperformed by the other rifles. Why should I madly dash towards my inevitable doom? Speed works with the shotgun as it has high alpha and can 1-2 shot most suits, it is also supported by scouts low profile so your chances of getting in range is increased. The AR on the other hand doesnGÇÖt have anything going for it. AR should be king of the rifles within 40 metres. Increase damage and/or ROF but dramatically drop damage beyond 40 metres. It should be a beast in CQC but clearly less effective outside its intended range. If that doesnGÇÖt sit well with people then all the other rifles need to be toned down in CQC. I should feel confident holding my AR if I have closed the distance and IGÇÖm fighting someone with a Rail Rifle. lol well I have never been a fan of the Gallente assault skill bonus. i think it is laughable really what good does a 5% per level reduction to hip fire dispersion and kick do for CQC? answer nothing really. that bonus is the same as you maxing out the assault oper and sharpshooter again. I mean what good does it do to have a 50% reduction to kick & hip fire dispersion when most ads when at 30+ meters and at CQC you need a wider hit area to hit those fast side to side movers. |
![sir RAVEN WING sir RAVEN WING](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
sir RAVEN WING
3468
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Posted - 2015.05.03 08:56:00 -
[148] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:I just played a match with it and I got 10 kills, 15 assists, and 2 deaths. The amount of assists I get with that gun is why I think it sucks. It's either just under-powered enough to prevent me from finishing the job half the time or the rate-of-fire is low enough that too many of my kills or stolen. With your logic the ARR, RR, CR, ACR, AScR, PLC, SR, Ect, Ect, Ect sucks.
I can go 34/61/10 with an RR, oh it has near 2x more assists so it must suck. Nope
I can go 29/37/5 with a CR, oh it still has more assists so it must suck. Nope
I could keep going all day long.
Day 6/30 Calscout Knifer/Last of A Kind/Sneaky
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![Gemini Cuspid Gemini Cuspid](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/female_amarr_128.jpg)
Gemini Cuspid
152
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Posted - 2015.05.03 09:18:00 -
[149] - Quote
sir RAVEN WING wrote:Summa Militum wrote:I just played a match with it and I got 10 kills, 15 assists, and 2 deaths. The amount of assists I get with that gun is why I think it sucks. It's either just under-powered enough to prevent me from finishing the job half the time or the rate-of-fire is low enough that too many of my kills or stolen. With your logic the ARR, RR, CR, ACR, AScR, PLC, SR, Ect, Ect, Ect sucks. I can go 34/61/10 with an RR, oh it has near 2x more assists so it must suck. Nope I can go 29/37/5 with a CR, oh it still has more assists so it must suck. Nope I could keep going all day long. If you're looking at wpns as far as proto lvl goes, then here's my thoughts:
tons of wpns are a bit in an awkward loop of their damage priority lvls. So yeah a ScR has a huge damage output and probably is the strongest wpn by far. A railgun is identical in damage, a but more actually, but doesn't have any drawbacks at any range; will perform the same whether it's up close, mid or far and still maintains the superior range over an assault.
If you want to throw the combat rifle then the combat rifle has the advantage of speed, better targeting snipe and stability over a duvolle.
If you wanted to get into a fire fight at mid range the railgun and combat rifle would probably beat tons of he assault rifles; a tactical or creo might give you a chance but if everything else is equal even at a mid range those two should do you in.
When we argue about the usefulness of assault rifles, not that they're bad, I use them, but it's not like they have the field role they once had. It's like you have a better chance using the ion bolt pistol as a shotgun vs a shotgun and knowing if it was a short quarter combat scenario the bolt pistol might be the overall better wpn.
The best way to approach the overall point is that weapon assortment with update after update has kind of caused some weapons to have no real honest role in the game. A lot of users who rely on assault rifles do so because it's the easier weapon to use initially; combat rifles and rail rifles take skills but that's a skill point issue. Likewise game dynamics reduce the roll where it's no longer the simple HMG, shotgun, mass drivers, assault rifles and lasers in play. You get a lot more weapon variety and players who can now afford the skill points to make combos that were really usable before; can treat your assault as a scout or make that ion pistol a better shotgun. If you get in a shooting match at the optimal range of he duvolle, you might still easily end up loosing a shooting match against an RS 90 or a rail rifle with all things equal. Heaven forbid we include ScR's in this.
That's really my take on it, that the assault rifles aren't useless but really lack the all-purpose usage that you can manage out of the combat and rail rifles. |
![sir RAVEN WING sir RAVEN WING](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
sir RAVEN WING
3469
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Posted - 2015.05.03 09:39:00 -
[150] - Quote
Gemini Cuspid wrote:sir RAVEN WING wrote:Summa Militum wrote:I just played a match with it and I got 10 kills, 15 assists, and 2 deaths. The amount of assists I get with that gun is why I think it sucks. It's either just under-powered enough to prevent me from finishing the job half the time or the rate-of-fire is low enough that too many of my kills or stolen. With your logic the ARR, RR, CR, ACR, AScR, PLC, SR, Ect, Ect, Ect sucks. I can go 34/61/10 with an RR, oh it has near 2x more assists so it must suck. Nope I can go 29/37/5 with a CR, oh it still has more assists so it must suck. Nope I could keep going all day long. If you're looking at wpns as far as proto lvl goes, then here's my thoughts: tons of wpns are a bit in an awkward loop of their damage priority lvls. So yeah a ScR has a huge damage output and probably is the strongest wpn by far. A railgun is identical in damage, a but more actually, but doesn't have any drawbacks at any range; will perform the same whether it's up close, mid or far and still maintains the superior range over an assault. If you want to throw the combat rifle then the combat rifle has the advantage of speed, better targeting snipe and stability over a duvolle. If you wanted to get into a fire fight at mid range the railgun and combat rifle would probably beat tons of he assault rifles; a tactical or creo might give you a chance but if everything else is equal even at a mid range those two should do you in. When we argue about the usefulness of assault rifles, not that they're bad, I use them, but it's not like they have the field role they once had. It's like you have a better chance using the ion bolt pistol as a shotgun vs a shotgun and knowing if it was a short quarter combat scenario the bolt pistol might be the overall better wpn. The best way to approach the overall point is that weapon assortment with update after update has kind of caused some weapons to have no real honest role in the game. A lot of users who rely on assault rifles do so because it's the easier weapon to use initially; combat rifles and rail rifles take skills but that's a skill point issue. Likewise game dynamics reduce the roll where it's no longer the simple HMG, shotgun, mass drivers, assault rifles and lasers in play. You get a lot more weapon variety and players who can now afford the skill points to make combos that were really usable before; can treat your assault as a scout or make that ion pistol a better shotgun. If you get in a shooting match at the optimal range of he duvolle, you might still easily end up loosing a shooting match against an RS 90 or a rail rifle with all things equal. Heaven forbid we include ScR's in this. That's really my take on it, that the assault rifles aren't useless but really lack the all-purpose usage that you can manage out of the combat and rail rifles. Let me dissect this.
The ScR is quite powerful yes, but saying the Rail Rifle is better and has no drawback is one of the most obvious lies I have ever seen. The ScR performs well at any range, yet the RR will kick like hell, often even making it's own optimal difficult.
AR = Close Range/Limited to CQC RR = Long Range/Hellish Kick ScR = Medium to Long Range/ Overheat CR = Short to Medium Range/Low Ammo
The CR does not have a speed bonus over the AR, the AR is automatic, the CR is burst fire. I could, and have, won with Duvolle. I have also been OHK'd by a Duvolle at 50m.
Your post is extremely messy, and proves no point.
Day 6/30 Calscout Knifer/Last of A Kind/Sneaky
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