Smart ideas?

A RoF bonus also might make the Gallente Assault Bonus somewhat more useful ...

So, buff the AR by nerfing the **** out of Armor. You've been on an anti-armor and 'inertia' kick for a long time now and I don't see this as anything other than pressing your agenda on the side-bar, using the AR as your plug

Guess you forgot about all of the following:

Cardiac Regulators (a must when using Myros)
Kinetic Catalyzers (even Cat Merc uses these)
Profile Dampeners (do I really need to explain this?)

To be honest the only ones that aren't really up to par, imo, are shield regulators (because reactive plates are more functional) and code breakers; code breakers being the case because it's just far more functional to use a Minmatar Scout than to try and force another suit to use something it's not good at. That and it's effectively useless for a large portion of game modes.

The armor plates are used mostly because - brace yourself - it's part of armor tanking. Which is pretty critical for armor tanking suits. It's easy to call 'diversity' when there's only three different things to put in the high slots (precision enhancers, shield modules, and damage amps) but to say that there's an imbalance because half of the races in this game use armor as their primary defense? Please.

This isn't saying that shield tanking isn't subpar - it could probably use a buff - but saying it's because armor is OP is a stretch.

Back to ARs now.

"Armor tanking is OP because thang.dk's market data shows a bunch of armor plates being bought on the market"

And one thing that people seem to ignore is that, if you did have a range increasing module, instead of it being percentage based, it could just be a fixed number, like.. increase maximum range by 5 meters, instead of increase maximum range by 5%.

Then make the AR worth having such low range compared to the other rifles.

30 DPS pales in comparison to 30 Meters.

does anyone else find this topic a bit funny when thinking back on Dust history?

FKN AR SCRUBS< LEARN TO USE A REAL GUN , YEH YOU AND YOUR DAMN AR CRUTCH , GET GUD PICK UP A REAL MANS GUN , AR IS OP OP OP OP OP

and here we are, heh

No! Buff CalAssault Bonus!

When the hell did I say something like that exclusively for the Gallente Assault like some kind of selfish fool in your summarization?

For someone who tries so desperately to be the voice of reason you sure start a lot of ****.

Stop quoting people out of context and we might take you more seriously.

Please don't misrepresent me to portray a gallente hatred or caldari bias.

There are tweaks that could be done to rail weaponry that wouldn't warrant any changes at all to the caldari assault, but as the cal assault has the exact same bonus as the caldari commando minus a 2% damage buff per level it is in a place where it basically lacks an identity in terms of specific weapon performance related bonuses compared to other assaults.

I would argue that the bonuses presented by the minmatar and amarr assaults are balanced in and of themselves, the problems come in on either the suit in the case of the minmatar or the weapons in the case of the amarr.

For the record, I really like the gallente assault bonus and really enjoy playing my Galassault alt. I'm not sure what tweaking could be done to make the suit 'better' without pushing it into the realm of overpowered. I'm not in fact certain that it really needs any tweaking and it's min / amarr that need some reigning in.

Lets not bring opinions and emotions into discussion of facts.

The difference here being that you asked for my opinions.

As someone who isn't a full time Gallente your opinion that its powerful holds little weight ...
There's next to no difference in performance for the weapons outside of the TACAR and IP, which even those are minimal.

.

A RoF bonus seems too potent in my opinion. It's a 10% DPS increase. Kinda marginalizes the benefit of the Gallente commando except for using the PLC.

1. To put it this way, none of the other assaults do more damage with their respective weapons (the only outlier is amarr lasers because specialist weapon), they just make them handle better. RoF bonus on the gal assault makes it have a lower ttk than other suits, which is commando territory

2. furthermore it doesn't apply equally to all plasma variants, mostly just the fully auto ones.

If not DPS, then what?

[
1. Dps buffs create an imbalance. Plain and simple. They also throw rattati's damage/range table out of whack.

2. There are problems with the shotgun beyond its old proficiency bonus though and I've talked about this before, but in short its current design is broken / unbalanced - on the few suits that have the combination of footspeed and stealth required to make it useable it's pretty overpowered due to its incredibly, incredibly high alpha (yay 3 shots in less than 1.5 seconds! eat 1200+ damage!) on any suit that doesn't have that the shotgun is useless. I'd much rather have a lower alpha, longer range, sustained dps weapon (320 dmg shot @ 20m with a RoF of 100 or so, been a while since I've checked my numbers)

3. Lets not rob peter to pay paul. The current and appropriate tradeoff for range is DPS. No it isn't working perfectly as 50 dps loss is not an acceptable trade for 96% extra range, that gain of range is way too good. If we balance the range/dps trade things should fix themselves... with that said though, every mainline service rifle should have the ability to perform throughout their entire optimal, though they may not necessarily be the 'best' at it.

Whether or not well agree on how to fix it the agreed statement is that what the AR sacrifices in range doesn't make up for what it gains.

I've actually had a shotgun thread somewhere discussing usefulness.

I'll dig it up when I get off work.

I'd love for the shotgun to be somewhat useful on something besides a scout but the process in doing the requires a lot of delicate tuning.

Your support of wanting to make a ton of weapons perform worse just so that a few can shine in comparison is causing me to quickly lose respect for you. Harming the vast majority of the playerbase to content a much smaller faction is bad and wrong. The correct solution to this is a functioning dps <--> range scale.

That you'd even consider it causes me concern.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositional_defiant_disorder

I am part of the 10% lifetime persistency group. I am getting frustrated because (to me) Adipem Nothi is in support of something that is disgustingly bad, harmful and wrong and he seemingly cant see the flaws in it.

Harming the vast majority of the playerbase to content a much smaller faction is bad and wrong.

Look guys! I can argue like nothi!

You are taking my words out of context Nothi and twisting them to say things that I haven't, you are compounding this by overly simplifying your own arguments so that it seems like I'm attacking the whole idea instead of the specifics. This is called strawmanning. I must repeat what kirk has said, for someone who apparently prides themselves on being a voice of reason, you are debating in extremely poor taste and have seemingly set out to try and make me 'wrong'.

I have been talking about your statement of hitting weapons performance instead of their dps. To me, performance means things like kick, dispersion etcetera. Making a weapons performance function badly outside of its 'intended' range because reasons is a terrible approach to balance, the correct metric should be a properly scaled range vs dps function.

Cherrypick and strawman harder prick. These 'points' are distractionary ad-hominem, non-discussion and a logical fallacy wombo-combo: being outright loaded questions, false dilemas, strawmanning and more. This is an incredibly manipulative line of 'argument', you are trying to avoid engaging with my points by instead calling me a hypocrite and criticizing me. Try actually defending your arguments instead of attacking people who see flaws with them.

I have never said anything about ar514, ever, and I will not discuss this with you.

I do not see any progression to this discussion until you stop littering it with logical fallacies and quoting me out of context, I have tried to engage with you in good nature, you are clearly not interested in extending the same courtesy. If you're trying to **** me off by acting like a jackass you've succeeded you can have alllllllllllll the internet points for it.

Harming the vast majority of the playerbase to content a much smaller faction is bad and wrong.

You can fine rifle the game and separate out the specialist and heavy weapons for other roles and balance points. Citing fine rifles and not making that distinction obfuscates the issue.

A battle rifle is a battle rifle is a battle rifle.

Did you bother to read my posts on the topic or did you skip right to "Oh look, Mina posted after, let's make her madder by posting ad hominem.

Oh and "fine rifle" is a lie. CCP's profiles alone on the weapons will create four WILDLY different performances overall even if you set every base stat identically. You like the Nerf/buff merry-go-round. Some of us think it's idiotic and would like the rifles to follow a logical progression so that choice of weapon reprersents a choice of playstyle rather than a shoehorn of "You must do it this way"

Can we define the concept of Fine Rifles again here? Or point me to where its defined, and what the alternatives are?

All I get so far is that its a set of rifles that are largely identical aside from dps v. range which can basically be graphed against each other in a linear and inverse progression. Not sure this matches the Dust situation since actual behavior of the gun is pretty different for each rifle.

The matter of fact is rattati knows the AR is underperforming in it's niche and needs a buff nothing you will say will change his mind. It is obvious to everyone else I just can't understand why Nothi is so salty about a minor dps change.

The shield/armor meta is fine and should have no input in this discussion.

What else is worth using in the low slots on non scout suits?

Kin Cats are about all that I would be willing to sub out a module for.

I'm quite literally not able to identify anything I need beyond my Ferros and Reppers that I need as an Amarrian. Kin Cats maybe but nothing else.