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Announcement:Changes to Planetary Conquest Reward Mechanics

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Announcement:Changes to Planetary Conquest Reward Mechanics

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)

CCP Frame C C P C C P Alliance 6175	Posted - 2015.04.15 02:07:00 - [1] - Quote Dear players, Last night we changed PC reward mechanics from Biomass to GÇ£Keep what you KillGÇ¥, on a team basis. CCP has been aware of an exploit involving alt-farming ISK through the Biomass No-Show method for some time now until we could gauge the situation. After lengthy discussions with the majority of District holders, we have decided to switch the reward mechanics to a new method, which has been previously discussed in the Features and Ideas Forums. This means that Team A will earn Team BGÇÖs ISK losses, split equally among Team A members, and vice versa. This means that District battles are no longer GÇ£winner takes allGÇ¥, making it viable to stick it out, switching to more cost effective gear and causing enough losses on the enemy to break even. As the exploit was the only viable way of creating wealth in PC, we hope this change will influence a bigger shakeup in PC tactics. We may reduce the cost of Clone Packs to initiate a Raiding aspect, where Corporations decide to try to make money by minimizing their losses and inflicting more than their own cost plus the Clone Pack. We are also preparing changes to Planetary Conquest, introducing Command Points and Earned District Income (not passive) which allows us to say GÇ£while Districts are not economically valuable now, they will beGÇ¥. This has also been extensively discussed in the forums. Some corporations may decide to stop investing in PC, some will change their tactics, and we predict that some will continue exactly as they have been, and collect as many districts as possible before the changes. A change is coming, and we hope it will be worth it. CCP Frame, CCP Community Team

John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1517	Posted - 2015.04.15 02:11:00 - [2] - Quote Cool. Can u also change server region choose mechanics? Please support fair play!
Kain Spero Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 5001	Posted - 2015.04.15 02:11:00 - [3] - Quote Interested to see how this will play out. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9513	Posted - 2015.04.15 02:12:00 - [4] - Quote Any intentions of revision in the future if BPO's and APEX suits start to become a major issue? I.E: Team A knows they're going to lose the fight so they just hammer out a bunch of BPO's for the lulz, not incurring any loss at all on their behalf? What about LP/Aurum items? How are they calculated into all of this? Are you being Angry or Assertive?
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 2110	Posted - 2015.04.15 02:12:00 - [5] - Quote Paired with the announcement of Simple Player Trading, it looks like it will be very interesting indeed. CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 866	Posted - 2015.04.15 02:14:00 - [6] - Quote Come gather 'round people, wherever you roam...
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4282	Posted - 2015.04.15 02:19:00 - [7] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Any intentions of revision in the future if BPO's and APEX suits start to become a major issue? I.E: Team A knows they're going to lose the fight so they just hammer out a bunch of BPO's for the lulz, not incurring any loss at all on their behalf? What about LP/Aurum items? How are they calculated into all of this? BPO's actually have an assigned ISK value so while they wouldn't be expending ISK for their deaths they would still be adding to the opposing teams profits every time they die. LP and AUR items also have assigned ISK values AFAIK so it would all just go into the pool. (Someone blue can correct me if I've somehow misunderstood here but I think all of this is accurate). See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9513	Posted - 2015.04.15 02:31:00 - [8] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Any intentions of revision in the future if BPO's and APEX suits start to become a major issue? I.E: Team A knows they're going to lose the fight so they just hammer out a bunch of BPO's for the lulz, not incurring any loss at all on their behalf? What about LP/Aurum items? How are they calculated into all of this? BPO's actually have an assigned ISK value so while they wouldn't be expending ISK for their deaths they would still be adding to the opposing teams profits every time they die. LP and AUR items also have assigned ISK values AFAIK so it would all just go into the pool. (Someone blue can correct me if I've somehow misunderstood here but I think all of this is accurate). xD!!!!! Are you serious? so we just replaced ISK farming with ISK farming for screwing around in a PC match? Sign me up. Lock the districts and let's all have a blast finding out who can get killed the most running BPO LAVs into the side of a tank. Sounds like great fun for racing tournaments. Just have a bunch of tanks trying to blow up BPO LAVs while they run around the map. Don't even bother hacking the objectives, just blow each other up for the lulz. Hell, I have a capture card, I'll record it and edit it all on the house. EDIT: Dude just CONCORD sanction the BPO's out and be done with it. Are you being Angry or Assertive?
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4283	Posted - 2015.04.15 03:04:00 - [9] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Any intentions of revision in the future if BPO's and APEX suits start to become a major issue? I.E: Team A knows they're going to lose the fight so they just hammer out a bunch of BPO's for the lulz, not incurring any loss at all on their behalf? What about LP/Aurum items? How are they calculated into all of this? BPO's actually have an assigned ISK value so while they wouldn't be expending ISK for their deaths they would still be adding to the opposing teams profits every time they die. LP and AUR items also have assigned ISK values AFAIK so it would all just go into the pool. (Someone blue can correct me if I've somehow misunderstood here but I think all of this is accurate). xD!!!!! Are you serious? so we just replaced ISK farming with ISK farming for screwing around in a PC match? Sign me up. Lock the districts and let's all have a blast finding out who can get killed the most running BPO LAVs into the side of a tank. Sounds like great fun for racing tournaments. Just have a bunch of tanks trying to blow up BPO LAVs while they run around the map. Don't even bother hacking the objectives, just blow each other up for the lulz. Hell, I have a capture card, I'll record it and edit it all on the house. EDIT: Dude just CONCORD sanction the BPO's out and be done with it. Playing in the match - even if it isn't a tactical push for the objectives - is still more involvement and entertainment than the prior versions. A no show doesn't earn ISK, putting one guy on the field against a team provides minimal value etc. If folks find it more worthwhile to fight for the payout of 150 standard level (or starter level) fits worth of ISK then sure why not? It isn't as if they couldn't go make ISK in a pub anyway, to earn an average payout of 300k for a team under this system the fit cost of the opposing team needs to average at 32,000, a pure STD assault fit clocks in at around 10,125. BPO/starter fits are going to provide that value or less meaning that the scenario you describe would give payouts of about 94,922 or less so ISK earnings would be better by simply running a Pub. If mercs want to run team deploy pure BPO matches for lower than Pub level payouts at longer than average pub time lengths, because no one hacks points, then I say by all means let them do it. It's not like players spending their time doing that holds any balance implications, the could earn more faster in Pubs already. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
NINEinch WEAPON WarRavens 77	Posted - 2015.04.15 03:14:00 - [10] - Quote I am liking this... Blue prints for the win... "winning" an inch at a time

Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2661	Posted - 2015.04.15 03:22:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: Dear players, Last night we changed PC reward mechanics from Biomass to GÇ£Keep what you KillGÇ¥, on a team basis. CCP has been aware of an exploit involving alt-farming ISK through the Biomass No-Show method for some time now until we could gauge the situation. After lengthy discussions with the majority of District holders, we have decided to switch the reward mechanics to a new method, which has been previously discussed in the Features and Ideas Forums. This means that Team A will earn Team BGÇÖs ISK losses, split equally among Team A members, and vice versa. This means that District battles are no longer GÇ£winner takes allGÇ¥, making it viable to stick it out, switching to more cost effective gear and causing enough losses on the enemy to break even. As the exploit was the only viable way of creating wealth in PC, we hope this change will influence a bigger shakeup in PC tactics. We may reduce the cost of Clone Packs to initiate a Raiding aspect, where Corporations decide to try to make money by minimizing their losses and inflicting more than their own cost plus the Clone Pack. We are also preparing changes to Planetary Conquest, introducing Command Points and Earned District Income (not passive) which allows us to say GÇ£while Districts are not economically valuable now, they will beGÇ¥. This has also been extensively discussed in the forums. Some corporations may decide to stop investing in PC, some will change their tactics, and we predict that some will continue exactly as they have been, and collect as many districts as possible before the changes. A change is coming, and we hope it will be worth it. This is interesting, will definitely be following the drama. The next thing PC needs is a structural change: genpacks cannot be 'hotdrop' weapons - you must find a way to introduce geography to Molden Heath. It needs to happen eventually, better sooner than later, and other than framerate it may be the most valuable change that will move players to PC. PSN: RationalSpark
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9514	Posted - 2015.04.15 03:32:00 - [12] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Any intentions of revision in the future if BPO's and APEX suits start to become a major issue? I.E: Team A knows they're going to lose the fight so they just hammer out a bunch of BPO's for the lulz, not incurring any loss at all on their behalf? What about LP/Aurum items? How are they calculated into all of this? BPO's actually have an assigned ISK value so while they wouldn't be expending ISK for their deaths they would still be adding to the opposing teams profits every time they die. LP and AUR items also have assigned ISK values AFAIK so it would all just go into the pool. (Someone blue can correct me if I've somehow misunderstood here but I think all of this is accurate). xD!!!!! Are you serious? so we just replaced ISK farming with ISK farming for screwing around in a PC match? Sign me up. Lock the districts and let's all have a blast finding out who can get killed the most running BPO LAVs into the side of a tank. Sounds like great fun for racing tournaments. Just have a bunch of tanks trying to blow up BPO LAVs while they run around the map. Don't even bother hacking the objectives, just blow each other up for the lulz. Hell, I have a capture card, I'll record it and edit it all on the house. EDIT: Dude just CONCORD sanction the BPO's out and be done with it. Playing in the match - even if it isn't a tactical push for the objectives - is still more involvement and entertainment than the prior versions. A no show doesn't earn ISK, putting one guy on the field against a team provides minimal value etc. If folks find it more worthwhile to fight for the payout of 150 standard level (or starter level) fits worth of ISK then sure why not? It isn't as if they couldn't go make ISK in a Pub anyway, to earn an average payout of 300k for a team under this system the fit cost of the opposing team needs to average at 32,000, a pure STD assault fit clocks in at around 10,125. BPO/starter fits are going to provide that value or less meaning that the scenario you describe would give payouts of about 94,922 or less so ISK earnings would be better by simply running a Pub. If mercs want to run team deploy pure BPO matches for lower than Pub level payouts at longer than average pub time lengths, because no one hacks points, then I say by all means let them do it. It's not like players spending their time doing that holds any balance implications, they could earn more faster in Pubs already. 0.02 ISK Cross I think you underestimate how much PC entities are willing to do just to get some free ISK. Hypothetically speaking, let's say you got 20 people (plausible). Team A: 1 Logi with drop-uplinks, 15 guys running all BPO gear averaging the 32,000 ISK you mentioned. Team B: Bunch of dudes with Shotguns. Doesn't even need to be a full team. Four guys is plenty. Logi on Team A just drops up-links, no-one hacks any objectives at all. The fifteen other dudes on Team A just spawn at any of the drop-uplinks in their free BPOs on throw-away alts and Team B just spam-farms them as soon as they spawn. For the sake of argument, we'll say that you have 15 dudes spawning every 10 seconds. That's 2,880,000 ISK every minute or 144,000 ISK every minute for each member of your 20 man farm team. Since they didn't hack any objectives? You just handed them the keys to a massive ISK faucet because the game will go on for about an hour or more. So, nah, being as I don't generally make 9,000,000+ ISK/hour running Pubs, this would be an insanely profitable avenue for the patient and if it's anything we've learned from exploiters in this game is that patience is a commonplace. I'm not just talking out of my hind quarters, I'm speaking from experience (EDIT: Pro tip, we did this calling in BPO LAVs and constantly hacking/re-hacking turrets). You give them the keys to do it and they will do it. There isn't any reason why BPO's should be used in PC as a player in PC, at that point, should be using -at least- higher level gear where the BPO necessity is no longer necessary and I don't see any reason why having BPO's/APEX's in PC is in any way beneficial, functional, immersive, or investing in performance gains. Are you being Angry or Assertive?
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 6029	Posted - 2015.04.15 03:41:00 - [13] - Quote oooh, I like it. Some details can be ignored
Kain Spero Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 5002	Posted - 2015.04.15 03:42:00 - [14] - Quote With player trading coming I think it might be safe to consider setting ISK values of BPOs to 0. I would seriously consider at least switching BPO LAV isk values to 0. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4290	Posted - 2015.04.15 03:57:00 - [15] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Any intentions of revision in the future if BPO's and APEX suits start to become a major issue? I.E: Team A knows they're going to lose the fight so they just hammer out a bunch of BPO's for the lulz, not incurring any loss at all on their behalf? What about LP/Aurum items? How are they calculated into all of this? BPO's actually have an assigned ISK value so while they wouldn't be expending ISK for their deaths they would still be adding to the opposing teams profits every time they die. LP and AUR items also have assigned ISK values AFAIK so it would all just go into the pool. (Someone blue can correct me if I've somehow misunderstood here but I think all of this is accurate). xD!!!!! Are you serious? so we just replaced ISK farming with ISK farming for screwing around in a PC match? Sign me up. Lock the districts and let's all have a blast finding out who can get killed the most running BPO LAVs into the side of a tank. Sounds like great fun for racing tournaments. Just have a bunch of tanks trying to blow up BPO LAVs while they run around the map. Don't even bother hacking the objectives, just blow each other up for the lulz. Hell, I have a capture card, I'll record it and edit it all on the house. EDIT: Dude just CONCORD sanction the BPO's out and be done with it. Playing in the match - even if it isn't a tactical push for the objectives - is still more involvement and entertainment than the prior versions. A no show doesn't earn ISK, putting one guy on the field against a team provides minimal value etc. If folks find it more worthwhile to fight for the payout of 150 standard level (or starter level) fits worth of ISK then sure why not? It isn't as if they couldn't go make ISK in a Pub anyway, to earn an average payout of 300k for a team under this system the fit cost of the opposing team needs to average at 32,000, a pure STD assault fit clocks in at around 10,125. BPO/starter fits are going to provide that value or less meaning that the scenario you describe would give payouts of about 94,922 or less so ISK earnings would be better by simply running a Pub. If mercs want to run team deploy pure BPO matches for lower than Pub level payouts at longer than average pub time lengths, because no one hacks points, then I say by all means let them do it. It's not like players spending their time doing that holds any balance implications, they could earn more faster in Pubs already. 0.02 ISK Cross I think you underestimate how much PC entities are willing to do just to get some free ISK. Hypothetically speaking, let's say you got 20 people (plausible). Team A: 1 Logi with drop-uplinks, 15 guys running all BPO gear averaging the 32,000 ISK you mentioned. Team B: Bunch of dudes with Shotguns. Doesn't even need to be a full team. Four guys is plenty. Logi on Team A just drops up-links, no-one hacks any objectives at all. The fifteen other dudes on Team A just spawn at any of the drop-uplinks in their free BPOs on throw-away alts and Team B just spam-farms them as soon as they spawn. For the sake of argument, we'll say that you have 15 dudes spawning every 10 seconds. That's 2,880,000 ISK every minute or 144,000 ISK every minute for each member of your 20 man farm team. Since they didn't hack any objectives? You just handed them the keys to a massive ISK faucet because the game will go on for about an hour or more. So, nah, being as I don't generally make 9,000,000+ ISK/hour running Pubs, this would be an insanely profitable avenue for the patient and if it's anything we've learned from exploiters in this game is that patience is a commonplace. I'm not just talking out of my hind quarters, I'm speaking from experience (EDIT: Pro tip, we did this calling in BPO LAVs and constantly hacking/re-hacking turrets). You give them the keys to do it and they will do it. There isn't any reason why BPO's should be used in PC as a player in PC, at that point, should be using -at least- higher level gear where the BPO necessity is no longer necessary and I don't see any reason why having BPO's/APEX's in PC is in any way beneficial, functional, immersive, or investing in performance gains. I gave the numbers in my prior post and there is no way to make the millions you describe. There are 150 clones per side, that is one hard limit, and the approximate value of a STD BPO fit is 10,125 (not the 32,000 minimum I mentioned, because to hit that value figure you'd have to be running something more that BPOs). Even at the 32,000 figure, which again requires real ISK fits not BPOs, the max income is 4,800,000 ISK total for the entire team combined. So using your 4 man farm team context, and assuming a logi for uplinks as you described, that's 960,000 ISK per player. If it takes ~15 sec per kill, 4 kills per cycle that's about 10 minutes for those guys to farm up that much ISK assuming ideal conditions and willing participants on the other side. Also excluding the times for opening deployment and set up. The thing is that ~960k can only be made if the other team is using ISK fits and thus losing money. Using the BPO value of 10,125 or less gives us a max of 1,518,750 again divided by your proposed team of 5. 303,750. So that's still a decent take, but also much more of a pub level take, it requires players willing to respawn and be shot like clock work over and over again in that time, requires set up etc and even then is still an inflated figure because it doesn't account for the time of initial deployment. Even beyond that these figures assume that you can deploy 4-5 people into one side (or both sides) of a battle and have it spin up and work properly which while it's how things work now may change. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9514	Posted - 2015.04.15 03:57:00 - [16] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: With player trading coming I think it might be safe to consider setting ISK values of BPOs to 0. I would seriously consider at least switching BPO LAV isk values to 0. See, even Kain Spero gets it and when Kain Spero is telling you something you -KNOW- it's bad Are you being Angry or Assertive?
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9515	Posted - 2015.04.15 03:59:00 - [17] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I gave the numbers in my prior post and there is no way to make the millions you describe. There are 150 clones per side, that is one hard limit, and the approximate value of a STD BPO fit is 10,125 (not the 32,000 minimum I mentioned, because to hit that value figure you'd have to be running something more that BPOs). Even at the 32,000 figure, which again requires real ISK fits not BPOs, the max income is 4,800,000 ISK total for the entire team combined. So using your 4 man farm team context, and assuming a logi for uplinks as you described, that's 960,000 ISK per player. If it takes ~15 sec per kill, 4 kills per cycle that's about 10 minutes for those guys to farm up that much ISK assuming ideal conditions and willing participants on the other side. Also excluding the times for opening deployment and set up. The thing is that ~960k can only be made if the other team is using ISK fits and thus losing money. Using the BPO value of 10,125 or less gives us a max of 1,518,750 again divided by your proposed team of 5. 303,750. So that's still a decent take, but also much more of a pub level take, it requires players willing to respawn and be shot like clock work over and over again in that time, requires set up etc and even then is still an inflated figure because it doesn't account for the time of initial deployment. Even beyond that these figures assume that you can deploy 4-5 people into one side (or both sides) of a battle and have it spin up and work properly which while it's how things work now may change. Then let's set the math aside. What functional, logical, immersive, or performance gaining reason do you have for having BPO's in PC? What is their functional purpose other than exploiting a defensive move to freely defend a district you know you are going to lose and forcing the enemy to incur ISK losses by doing so? How is that in any way fair for the attackers who have to deal with it? Are you being Angry or Assertive?
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4291	Posted - 2015.04.15 04:00:00 - [18] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: With player trading coming I think it might be safe to consider setting ISK values of BPOs to 0. I would seriously consider at least switching BPO LAV isk values to 0. That lowers the payout for all match types (outside of FW) since earnings are directly effected by the value of assets destroyed in match. Assume, in theory, that a whole team of new bros used only starter fits for a whole match. With your proposal in place the opposing team would earn 0 ISK. IMO that's far from an ideal situation. And even in a more real world case where only some of the players on an opposing team run pure BPOs (say one squad) you've nearly halved the earnings from that match... still not really a great situation in my view. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 7606	Posted - 2015.04.15 04:06:00 - [19] - Quote this is good for a few reasons. But ridiculous for many others.... Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll take your districts and hurt you. Get Dust ISK Here
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5838	Posted - 2015.04.15 04:07:00 - [20] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Then let's set the math aside. What functional, logical, immersive, or performance gaining reason do you have for having BPO's in PC? What is their functional purpose other than exploiting a defensive move to freely defend a district you know you are going to lose and forcing the enemy to incur ISK losses by doing so? How is that in any way fair for the attackers who have to deal with it? Are you saying that scorched earth tactics are an exploit? To that sounds like a war of economy. To me, it seems incredibly meta to use cheap/free gear in order to dupe the enemy into incurring more losses than they intended. If I know I'm going to lose a battle, I'm going to make damn sure that I make the guy taking my stuff suffer as much as possible. I think that in of itself, New Eden at its finest. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 984	Posted - 2015.04.15 04:41:00 - [21] - Quote I guess I'm just in shock that New Eden now incentivizes losing. That on the loss side you'll take home a payout equal or greater than the win side is....nuckin' futs. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Silver Strike44 610	Posted - 2015.04.15 04:49:00 - [22] - Quote Quite honestly, from the perspective of someone who plays a lot of PCs and has a decent amount of pull in Molden Heath (though Im not sure if thats relevant), this change is terrible. I have never been one to come on the forums and talk about what CCP is doing wrong, but unless this has some sort of godly synergy with what you are going to release whenever you finally release it, this is just bad. I think most PC players will agree with me on this. You may have killed farming, but you pretty much just destroyed PC for anyone who doesnt only do it for fun until there are further changes made. My YouTube Channel
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2663	Posted - 2015.04.15 05:30:00 - [23] - Quote Rattati's plan was to allow clone sales for command points. That will be the reward for winning the battle. But when does the next phase of warbarges roll out? PSN: RationalSpark
devjo88 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2015.04.15 06:13:00 - [24] - Quote NINEinch WEAPON wrote: I am liking this... Blue prints for the win... whats it matter you guys cant hold a district former director of ScReWeD uP InC one must look into h3ll before he can speak of heaven-Bertrand russell
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 1322	Posted - 2015.04.15 06:16:00 - [25] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: I guess I'm just in shock that New Eden now incentivizes losing. That on the loss side you'll take home a payout equal or greater than the win side is....nuckin' futs. It's problematc, to be sure... But frankly, with how much of a ghost town PC has become, incentivising trying is not a bad thing. As things have stood, with no payouts and clone packs being as expensive as they are, how many corps trying out PC give up after a few losses? Too many. Yes, quitters are quitters, New Eden is a harsh place, etc. But we don't have enough of an active playerbase to kick people in the teeth for trying and failing. Encouraging people to practice and get better, while giving them the ability to keep trying even after some failures is how we keep the community alive at this point. However, this change really should have occurred in concurrence with other PC changes, such as giving districts value, and making attacking more accessible for non district holders, which we can be pretty sure are coming, but not when. While incentivising more activity by reducing the risk for the less established teams is good... Having no incentive to defend land is not. This change standing alone is possibly more likely to reduce activity. While economic warfare may be an interesting aspect of PC, it shouldn't be the only aspect, even if temporarily. Shutting down exploits is absolutely a commendable thing... but why the rush now after so long? Here's to hoping things go smoothly and the other appropriate changes are rolled out in a timely manner. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 86	Posted - 2015.04.15 06:27:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: Dear players, Last night we changed PC reward mechanics from Biomass to GÇ£Keep what you KillGÇ¥, on a team basis. CCP has been aware of an exploit involving alt-farming ISK through the Biomass No-Show method for some time now until we could gauge the situation. After lengthy discussions with the majority of District holders, we have decided to switch the reward mechanics to a new method, which has been previously discussed in the Features and Ideas Forums. This means that Team A will earn Team BGÇÖs ISK losses, split equally among Team A members, and vice versa. This means that District battles are no longer GÇ£winner takes allGÇ¥, making it viable to stick it out, switching to more cost effective gear and causing enough losses on the enemy to break even. As the exploit was the only viable way of creating wealth in PC, we hope this change will influence a bigger shakeup in PC tactics. We may reduce the cost of Clone Packs to initiate a Raiding aspect, where Corporations decide to try to make money by minimizing their losses and inflicting more than their own cost plus the Clone Pack. We are also preparing changes to Planetary Conquest, introducing Command Points and Earned District Income (not passive) which allows us to say GÇ£while Districts are not economically valuable now, they will beGÇ¥. This has also been extensively discussed in the forums. Some corporations may decide to stop investing in PC, some will change their tactics, and we predict that some will continue exactly as they have been, and collect as many districts as possible before the changes. A change is coming, and we hope it will be worth it. Do the same to fw and LP. Petition to ban the trainyard map.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3487	Posted - 2015.04.15 06:56:00 - [27] - Quote Now, please port to PC. I have stuffed away my ps3 in the basement, it is not coming out any time soon. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet". My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4383	Posted - 2015.04.15 07:55:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: This means that District battles are no longer GÇ£winner takes allGÇ¥, making it viable to stick it out, switching to more cost effective gear and causing enough losses on the enemy to break even. Until you sweep all the isk made with current locking and with old time lock and passive income, i will not consider PC fixed. BTW the change seems nice, at least if one do well he can profit even if the other team wins. Play from Japan, rule the game!
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 984	Posted - 2015.04.15 08:05:00 - [29] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: I guess I'm just in shock that New Eden now incentivizes losing. That on the loss side you'll take home a payout equal or greater than the win side is....nuckin' futs. It's problematc, to be sure... But frankly, with how much of a ghost town PC has become, incentivising trying is not a bad thing. As things have stood, with no payouts and clone packs being as expensive as they are, how many corps trying out PC give up after a few losses? Too many. Yes, quitters are quitters, New Eden is a harsh place, etc. But we don't have enough of an active playerbase to kick people in the teeth for trying and failing. Encouraging people to practice and get better, while giving them the ability to keep trying even after some failures is how we keep the community alive at this point. However, this change really should have occurred in concurrence with other PC changes, such as giving districts value, and making attacking more accessible for non district holders, which we can be pretty sure are coming, but not when. While incentivising more activity by reducing the risk for the less established teams is good... Having no incentive to defend land is not. This change standing alone is possibly more likely to reduce activity. While economic warfare may be an interesting aspect of PC, it shouldn't be the only aspect, even if temporarily. Shutting down exploits is absolutely a commendable thing... but why the rush now after so long? Here's to hoping things go smoothly and the other appropriate changes are rolled out in a timely manner. But is this incentivising trying or is this incentivising buying a bpo? Even more fixed fits? Fits that, since they're bpo's, don't add anything of significance to salvage already? Dude , on the Logi side we eat this. $$out on support of bpo's? And ** for $$ back in because the other side was mostly bpo's? And final match payouts that will barely if at all cover losses, unless running a bpo? If there's some other leg to the table bring that out, this like this is nonsensical. The real irony in it is that people have been qqing for years about meta-limiting pubs. So ccp meta-limited PC. I run adv and bpo in pubs ALL day. Pubs. I'm isk profitable, unless I up in which case I don"t deserve to be. The idea though that in PC I can LOSE, while running total ** fits, and see any sort of payout even close to what the guy who won got is just mindblowing. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9517	Posted - 2015.04.15 09:34:00 - [30] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Then let's set the math aside. What functional, logical, immersive, or performance gaining reason do you have for having BPO's in PC? What is their functional purpose other than exploiting a defensive move to freely defend a district you know you are going to lose and forcing the enemy to incur ISK losses by doing so? How is that in any way fair for the attackers who have to deal with it? Are you saying that scorched earth tactics are an exploit? To that sounds like a war of economy. To me, it seems incredibly meta to use cheap/free gear in order to dupe the enemy into incurring more losses than they intended. If I know I'm going to lose a battle, I'm going to make damn sure that I make the guy taking my stuff suffer as much as possible. I think that in of itself, New Eden at its finest. Now don't get me wrong, in the current state of PC with this being the ONLY profitability in a district....it's not a good thing. However pending upcoming changes, I could see it as a valid tactic in winning the ISK war (since innate profitability will be baked into owning a district outside of ISK) Scorched Earth tactics are burning everything as you fall back to prevent the enemy from using it. Scorched Earth tactics are -NOT- letting them have it anyway and giving them a run for their money with absolutely no risk on your end. It'd be cool if it were a choice factor but this is an obvious choice. If I lose the first battle for the district, the second is where I start weighing my options. If I feel it's absolutely necessary to keep the district, I'll fight - otherwise, why bother wasting ISK? It's not a choice, it's a default, and every PC entity -ever- will make that choice; thereby, it's not so much a choice as a "use this tactic always and forever". It's going to get old -real freaggin quick- and, again, I see absolutely no reason why it should be a thing. The entire point of all of this was to offer good fights, wasn't it? Why sacrifice or risk those good fights by giving a mechanic like this when the simple solution is to simply prevent BPO's and APEX suits from being used in PC? Every time I brought up BPOs and APEXs, I heard "we don't have an economy for them to affect". Okay, well, we have player trading. We have asset selling. How far back are we going to move this goal post before we start seriously considering the implications that riskless, lossless assets have on the game? EDIT: Long story short, you're just taking one terrible meta (players giving up early and just letting their enemies have the district) and replacing it with another (fielding BPOs and doing damage with no risk/loss). The only players losing with this new mechanic are the attackers. Are you being Angry or Assertive?

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 997	Posted - 2015.04.15 11:49:00 - [31] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Then let's set the math aside. What functional, logical, immersive, or performance gaining reason do you have for having BPO's in PC? What is their functional purpose other than exploiting a defensive move to freely defend a district you know you are going to lose and forcing the enemy to incur ISK losses by doing so? How is that in any way fair for the attackers who have to deal with it? Are you saying that scorched earth tactics are an exploit? To that sounds like a war of economy. To me, it seems incredibly meta to use cheap/free gear in order to dupe the enemy into incurring more losses than they intended. If I know I'm going to lose a battle, I'm going to make damn sure that I make the guy taking my stuff suffer as much as possible. I think that in of itself, New Eden at its finest. Now don't get me wrong, in the current state of PC with this being the ONLY profitability in a district....it's not a good thing. However pending upcoming changes, I could see it as a valid tactic in winning the ISK war (since innate profitability will be baked into owning a district outside of ISK) Scorched Earth tactics are burning everything as you fall back to prevent the enemy from using it. Scorched Earth tactics are -NOT- letting them have it anyway and giving them a run for their money with absolutely no risk on your end. It'd be cool if it were a choice factor but this is an obvious choice. If I lose the first battle for the district, the second is where I start weighing my options. If I feel it's absolutely necessary to keep the district, I'll fight - otherwise, why bother wasting ISK? It's not a choice, it's a default, and every PC entity -ever- will make that choice; thereby, it's not so much a choice as a "use this tactic always and forever". It's going to get old -real freaggin quick- and, again, I see absolutely no reason why it should be a thing. The entire point of all of this was to offer good fights, wasn't it? Why sacrifice or risk those good fights by giving a mechanic like this when the simple solution is to simply prevent BPO's and APEX suits from being used in PC? Every time I brought up BPOs and APEXs, I heard "we don't have an economy for them to affect". Okay, well, we have player trading. We have asset selling. How far back are we going to move this goal post before we start seriously considering the implications that riskless, lossless assets have on the game? EDIT: Long story short, you're just taking one terrible meta (players giving up early and just letting their enemies have the district) and replacing it with another (fielding BPOs and doing damage with no risk/loss). The only players losing with this new mechanic are the attackers. youll lose ISK either way. BPO's or not, they can still use militia gear.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8085	Posted - 2015.04.15 11:50:00 - [32] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: That lowers the payout for all match types (outside of FW) since earnings are directly effected by the value of assets destroyed in match. payouts for all match types being based on what a bunch of risk-averse KD padders are willing to bring is why the payouts in pubs are utter crap to begin with. This is the design flaw in the game that makes the game modes feel like an unrewarding chore. When you're dependent upon your enemy to bring the good stuff in order to make ISK, you're always going to have an anemic paycheck. And when you're the only one dropping in ADV/Proto? You're the only one providing fodder for those payouts. "Keep what you kill" makes sense for game modes where there is intended to be a harvestable wealth source (PC). Concord and the empires aren't paying you, and you're limited to what you can acquire/salvage on your own. This harvestable wealth needs to be worth burning the good stuff. But for the rest of the game? It's turned out to be a really lackluster mechanic, and provides a sharp roadblock to new corps preparing to join in and engage in PC themselves. AV
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9517	Posted - 2015.04.15 12:58:00 - [33] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Then let's set the math aside. What functional, logical, immersive, or performance gaining reason do you have for having BPO's in PC? What is their functional purpose other than exploiting a defensive move to freely defend a district you know you are going to lose and forcing the enemy to incur ISK losses by doing so? How is that in any way fair for the attackers who have to deal with it? Are you saying that scorched earth tactics are an exploit? To that sounds like a war of economy. To me, it seems incredibly meta to use cheap/free gear in order to dupe the enemy into incurring more losses than they intended. If I know I'm going to lose a battle, I'm going to make damn sure that I make the guy taking my stuff suffer as much as possible. I think that in of itself, New Eden at its finest. Now don't get me wrong, in the current state of PC with this being the ONLY profitability in a district....it's not a good thing. However pending upcoming changes, I could see it as a valid tactic in winning the ISK war (since innate profitability will be baked into owning a district outside of ISK) Scorched Earth tactics are burning everything as you fall back to prevent the enemy from using it. Scorched Earth tactics are -NOT- letting them have it anyway and giving them a run for their money with absolutely no risk on your end. It'd be cool if it were a choice factor but this is an obvious choice. If I lose the first battle for the district, the second is where I start weighing my options. If I feel it's absolutely necessary to keep the district, I'll fight - otherwise, why bother wasting ISK? It's not a choice, it's a default, and every PC entity -ever- will make that choice; thereby, it's not so much a choice as a "use this tactic always and forever". It's going to get old -real freaggin quick- and, again, I see absolutely no reason why it should be a thing. The entire point of all of this was to offer good fights, wasn't it? Why sacrifice or risk those good fights by giving a mechanic like this when the simple solution is to simply prevent BPO's and APEX suits from being used in PC? Every time I brought up BPOs and APEXs, I heard "we don't have an economy for them to affect". Okay, well, we have player trading. We have asset selling. How far back are we going to move this goal post before we start seriously considering the implications that riskless, lossless assets have on the game? EDIT: Long story short, you're just taking one terrible meta (players giving up early and just letting their enemies have the district) and replacing it with another (fielding BPOs and doing damage with no risk/loss). The only players losing with this new mechanic are the attackers. youll lose ISK either way. BPO's or not, they can still use militia gear. Militia gear still has an ISK loss. I'll take all militia gear over all BPO's any day. A marginal loss to my opponent's wallet is worth far more than absolutely nothing but gains for them. EDIT: Not to mention, it's harder to fit and usually comes with stuff like reduced magazine sizes and what not. So it's better all around than riskless BPO's which are on-par with Standard gear. S'whatever, I've said my piece. If I do start doing PCs again I'll just abstain from ever participating in a second/third match because it will be utter BS. Are you being Angry or Assertive?
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 351	Posted - 2015.04.15 13:19:00 - [34] - Quote Bleed their ISK...BLEED IT!!! Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2024	Posted - 2015.04.15 14:05:00 - [35] - Quote Bremen van Equis wrote: Bleed their ISK...BLEED IT!!! I absolutely love it, crude attrition gets added and the elite rank-and-file lose their goddamn minds! Bleed them dry! I literally can not understand how people can survive being so inept.
ReGnYuM Carne Con Papas 3658	Posted - 2015.04.15 14:57:00 - [36] - Quote I just can't fathom the reasoning behind this band-aid approach to fixing PC. You fix one exploit and in doing so cripple the entire game mode. PC is a place were you bring your best. Squeezing every last CPU and PG you can muster: Specializing, adapting and overcoming. I play PC for a chance to play high quality player's in their best gear. The ISK is just a bonus. The idea of going through the ring's and hoop's of getting ready to play PC just to go against BPO trash is unsettling. Why would I just not Q for Pubs... its faster? I have literally kicked players for running Adv gear and joking about running Std. Clearly the Meta has changed....
The Dark Cloud The Rainbow Effect 4428	Posted - 2015.04.15 16:25:00 - [37] - Quote Slow down guys CCP is planning to reintroduce clone selling. But instead of automatically selling clones when the district is full you need to manually sell them which makes your district vulnurable. I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
XxBlazikenxX Y.A.M.A.H 781	Posted - 2015.04.15 16:46:00 - [38] - Quote Awesome! Especially since I planned to get into PC in a few days time. Be warned, Y.A.M.A.H is coming! Terrestrial Combat Officer of Y.A.M.A.H Recruitment, Free BPOs!
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 987	Posted - 2015.04.15 17:26:00 - [39] - Quote Planning to do things is well and good but there is an extremely well established history of things coming "Soon" that either never do OR take way too long to happen. Meanwhile, the game suffers. Missing the pilot suits or all racial vehicles is one thing, this is supposed to be the top-level, flagship gamemode. And it just became no different than pubs except, as Regnyum^ pointed out, in the setup time. And I don't see how this helps small groups, who from what I've seen often already run bpo's. Hey, geniuses! Isk attrition works both ways . You really think this sort of scheme is an advantage for you?? The rank-and-file mercs take a hit on the pay side while the leaders outright pocket or skim silly profits from clones sold off districts you aren't getting paid worth a **** to protect? Average payouts- direct to merc isk- on wins was 3-5 MILLION PER battle, plus whatever worthwhile salvage there is. No middle-manning, you just have to WIN. Compete Successfully, Get Paid. Now, if you're unsuccessful, you get paid off cheap gear and if you are successful you also get paid off cheap gear. How does any actual working merc not see the paycut here? Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
XxBlazikenxX Y.A.M.A.H 783	Posted - 2015.04.15 17:28:00 - [40] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Planning to do things is well and good but there is an extremely well established history of things coming "Soon" that either never do OR take way too long to happen. Meanwhile, the game suffers. Missing the pilot suits or all racial vehicles is one thing, this is supposed to be the top-level, flagship gamemode. And it just became no different than pubs except, as Regnyum^ pointed out, in the setup time. And I don't see how this helps small groups, who from what I've seen often already run bpo's. Hey, geniuses! Isk attrition works both ways . You really think this sort of scheme is an advantage for you?? The rank-and-file mercs take a hit on the pay side while the leaders outright pocket or skim silly profits from clones sold off districts you aren't getting paid worth a **** to protect? Average payouts- direct to merc isk- on wins was 3-5 MILLION PER battle, plus whatever worthwhile salvage there is. No middle-manning, you just have to WIN. Compete Successfully, Get Paid. Now, if you're unsuccessful, you get paid off cheap gear and if you are successful you also get paid off cheap gear. How does any actual working merc not see the paycut here? lol, says the CapAq guy. Terrestrial Combat Officer of Y.A.M.A.H Recruitment, Free BPOs!

Banjo Robertson Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 531	Posted - 2015.04.15 17:51:00 - [41] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I gave the numbers in my prior post and there is no way to make the millions you describe. There are 150 clones per side, that is one hard limit, and the approximate value of a STD BPO fit is 10,125 (not the 32,000 minimum I mentioned, because to hit that value figure you'd have to be running something more that BPOs). Even at the 32,000 figure, which again requires real ISK fits not BPOs, the max income is 4,800,000 ISK total for the entire team combined. So using your 4 man farm team context, and assuming a logi for uplinks as you described, that's 960,000 ISK per player. If it takes ~15 sec per kill, 4 kills per cycle that's about 10 minutes for those guys to farm up that much ISK assuming ideal conditions and willing participants on the other side. Also excluding the times for opening deployment and set up. The thing is that ~960k can only be made if the other team is using ISK fits and thus losing money. Using the BPO value of 10,125 or less gives us a max of 1,518,750 again divided by your proposed team of 5. 303,750. So that's still a decent take, but also much more of a pub level take, it requires players willing to respawn and be shot like clock work over and over again in that time, requires set up etc and even then is still an inflated figure because it doesn't account for the time of initial deployment. Even beyond that these figures assume that you can deploy 4-5 people into one side (or both sides) of a battle and have it spin up and work properly which while it's how things work now may change. Why is the limit set at 150 clones per side? is that the hard coded isk earning limit? the most expensive suits out of 150? There have been PC battles with 300+ clones per side, and I've seen battles where 200+ clones get used on one or both sides. If a battle happens with more than 150 clones lost on a side, does that mean only the 150 most expensive will be used for calculating winnings?
zDemoncake Horizons' Edge 472	Posted - 2015.04.15 18:00:00 - [42] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Planning to do things is well and good but there is an extremely well established history of things coming "Soon" that either never do OR take way too long to happen. Meanwhile, the game suffers. Missing the pilot suits or all racial vehicles is one thing, this is supposed to be the top-level, flagship gamemode. And it just became no different than pubs except, as Regnyum^ pointed out, in the setup time. And I don't see how this helps small groups, who from what I've seen often already run bpo's. Hey, geniuses! Isk attrition works both ways . You really think this sort of scheme is an advantage for you?? The rank-and-file mercs take a hit on the pay side while the leaders outright pocket or skim silly profits from clones sold off districts you aren't getting paid worth a **** to protect? Average payouts- direct to merc isk- on wins was 3-5 MILLION PER battle, plus whatever worthwhile salvage there is. No middle-manning, you just have to WIN. Compete Successfully, Get Paid. Now, if you're unsuccessful, you get paid off cheap gear and if you are successful you also get paid off cheap gear. How does any actual working merc not see the paycut here? lol, says the CapAq guy. If anything I believe that the experienced Planetary Conquest player base, and the math gurus' have the best say in regards to the changes in Planetary Conquest payout. At this moment I believe there is no incentive no run expensive gear to win the match if payouts are based on what you kill. Districts do not have a value aside from generating clones. Purchasing clone packs is no longer an issue, but for corporations that own multiple districts, the value is almost non-existent unless they are actively trying to flip rival districts. CCP should have implemented this system alongside the upcoming Planetary Conquest changes instead of deploying it overnight leaving the PC community to find out about it the next morning. As we near the upcoming PC changes that will allow clones to be sold manually for ISK, I hope CCP releases a devblog showcasing the numbers of how much ISK can be made for X amount of clones sold. CEO of Horizons' Edge's mercenary division *My soul, your beats!* Enemy to many; equal to none.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5843	Posted - 2015.04.15 18:05:00 - [43] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Then let's set the math aside. What functional, logical, immersive, or performance gaining reason do you have for having BPO's in PC? What is their functional purpose other than exploiting a defensive move to freely defend a district you know you are going to lose and forcing the enemy to incur ISK losses by doing so? How is that in any way fair for the attackers who have to deal with it? Are you saying that scorched earth tactics are an exploit? To that sounds like a war of economy. To me, it seems incredibly meta to use cheap/free gear in order to dupe the enemy into incurring more losses than they intended. If I know I'm going to lose a battle, I'm going to make damn sure that I make the guy taking my stuff suffer as much as possible. I think that in of itself, New Eden at its finest. Now don't get me wrong, in the current state of PC with this being the ONLY profitability in a district....it's not a good thing. However pending upcoming changes, I could see it as a valid tactic in winning the ISK war (since innate profitability will be baked into owning a district outside of ISK) Scorched Earth tactics are burning everything as you fall back to prevent the enemy from using it. Scorched Earth tactics are -NOT- letting them have it anyway and giving them a run for their money with absolutely no risk on your end. It'd be cool if it were a choice factor but this is an obvious choice. If I lose the first battle for the district, the second is where I start weighing my options. If I feel it's absolutely necessary to keep the district, I'll fight - otherwise, why bother wasting ISK? It's not a choice, it's a default, and every PC entity -ever- will make that choice; thereby, it's not so much a choice as a "use this tactic always and forever". It's going to get old -real freaggin quick- and, again, I see absolutely no reason why it should be a thing. The entire point of all of this was to offer good fights, wasn't it? Why sacrifice or risk those good fights by giving a mechanic like this when the simple solution is to simply prevent BPO's and APEX suits from being used in PC? Every time I brought up BPOs and APEXs, I heard "we don't have an economy for them to affect". Okay, well, we have player trading. We have asset selling. How far back are we going to move this goal post before we start seriously considering the implications that riskless, lossless assets have on the game? EDIT: Long story short, you're just taking one terrible meta (players giving up early and just letting their enemies have the district) and replacing it with another (fielding BPOs and doing damage with no risk/loss). The only players losing with this new mechanic are the attackers. Well since the primary profitability within PC in Rattatis new design has absolutely nothing to do with ISK at all, that aspect is non-issue. I'm not entirely sure what you're worried about. People using cheap gear? Doesn't that simply encourage the opposing side to use cheaper gear as well? What it does is encourage a sense of "use the bare minimum of what is necessary to win" . If one team is using BPOs, then you should use BPOs as well. Don't have a BPO? Use a standard ISK suits. Worried about losing money that way? You could literally mulch yourself in a PC match, and make all of the money you lost from running standard in a single pub match. The lost profitability from the other team running BPOs is simply not that much compared to them running standard suits and militia modules. Or are you worried you'll need to use proto gear to beat a team using BPOs? Well then you probably shouldn't be in PC. So again, under the new system, this simply allows people to use cheap gear to wear the enemy down if they want to. However since ownership of the district will actually provide benefit that isn't tied to ISK, what you end up with is a system where ISK is the means to fight the battle, but if you want to win, you're going to use the best you have because owning the district is valuable to you. So the moral of the story is, don't use more than you have to, but you might want to up it up a notch to secure the win if you want the true profit, which is in district ownership. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 987	Posted - 2015.04.15 18:21:00 - [44] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Planning to do things is well and good but there is an extremely well established history of things coming "Soon" that either never do OR take way too long to happen. Meanwhile, the game suffers. Missing the pilot suits or all racial vehicles is one thing, this is supposed to be the top-level, flagship gamemode. And it just became no different than pubs except, as Regnyum^ pointed out, in the setup time. And I don't see how this helps small groups, who from what I've seen often already run bpo's. Hey, geniuses! Isk attrition works both ways . You really think this sort of scheme is an advantage for you?? The rank-and-file mercs take a hit on the pay side while the leaders outright pocket or skim silly profits from clones sold off districts you aren't getting paid worth a **** to protect? Average payouts- direct to merc isk- on wins was 3-5 MILLION PER battle, plus whatever worthwhile salvage there is. No middle-manning, you just have to WIN. Compete Successfully, Get Paid. Now, if you're unsuccessful, you get paid off cheap gear and if you are successful you also get paid off cheap gear. How does any actual working merc not see the paycut here? lol, says the CapAq guy. Yes, a Cap Acq "guy". http://dustboard.com/global/merc/el_OPERATOR 1 year as an independent mercenary contractor, 1 year (so far) in CA. Joined just after CA was removed from the starmap by ERA, prior to the formation of the DNS Alliance. Your point? Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1353	Posted - 2015.04.15 19:07:00 - [45] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Then let's set the math aside. What functional, logical, immersive, or performance gaining reason do you have for having BPO's in PC? What is their functional purpose other than exploiting a defensive move to freely defend a district you know you are going to lose and forcing the enemy to incur ISK losses by doing so? How is that in any way fair for the attackers who have to deal with it? Are you saying that scorched earth tactics are an exploit? To that sounds like a war of economy. To me, it seems incredibly meta to use cheap/free gear in order to dupe the enemy into incurring more losses than they intended. If I know I'm going to lose a battle, I'm going to make damn sure that I make the guy taking my stuff suffer as much as possible. I think that in of itself, New Eden at its finest. Now don't get me wrong, in the current state of PC with this being the ONLY profitability in a district....it's not a good thing. However pending upcoming changes, I could see it as a valid tactic in winning the ISK war (since innate profitability will be baked into owning a district outside of ISK) Scorched Earth tactics are burning everything as you fall back to prevent the enemy from using it. Scorched Earth tactics are -NOT- letting them have it anyway and giving them a run for their money with absolutely no risk on your end. It'd be cool if it were a choice factor but this is an obvious choice. If I lose the first battle for the district, the second is where I start weighing my options. If I feel it's absolutely necessary to keep the district, I'll fight - otherwise, why bother wasting ISK? It's not a choice, it's a default, and every PC entity -ever- will make that choice; thereby, it's not so much a choice as a "use this tactic always and forever". It's going to get old -real freaggin quick- and, again, I see absolutely no reason why it should be a thing. The entire point of all of this was to offer good fights, wasn't it? Why sacrifice or risk those good fights by giving a mechanic like this when the simple solution is to simply prevent BPO's and APEX suits from being used in PC? Every time I brought up BPOs and APEXs, I heard "we don't have an economy for them to affect". Okay, well, we have player trading. We have asset selling. How far back are we going to move this goal post before we start seriously considering the implications that riskless, lossless assets have on the game? EDIT: Long story short, you're just taking one terrible meta (players giving up early and just letting their enemies have the district) and replacing it with another (fielding BPOs and doing damage with no risk/loss). The only players losing with this new mechanic are the attackers. Well since the primary profitability within PC in Rattatis new design has absolutely nothing to do with ISK at all, that aspect is non-issue. I'm not entirely sure what you're worried about. People using cheap gear? Doesn't that simply encourage the opposing side to use cheaper gear as well? What it does is encourage a sense of "use the bare minimum of what is necessary to win" . If one team is using BPOs, then you should use BPOs as well. Don't have a BPO? Use a standard ISK suits. Worried about losing money that way? You could literally mulch yourself in a PC match, and make all of the money you lost from running standard in a single pub match. The lost profitability from the other team running BPOs is simply not that much compared to them running standard suits and militia modules. Or are you worried you'll need to use proto gear to beat a team using BPOs? Well then you probably shouldn't be in PC. So again, under the new system, this simply allows people to use cheap gear to wear the enemy down if they want to. However since ownership of the district will actually provide benefit that isn't tied to ISK, what you end up with is a system where ISK is the means to fight the battle, but if you want to win, you're going to use the best you have because owning the district is valuable to you. So the moral of the story is, don't use more than you have to, but you might want to up it up a notch to secure the win if you want the true profit, which is in district ownership. This isn't some pub match, this is the end game meta. If there is one mode where the best of the best is encouraged to be used, this is it. Your idea on what PC should be is just wrong. There should be absolutely no incentive to run cheap gear, yet here it is. This isn't just some glorified PUB match, where if you are losing, just switch to cheap fits and try to cause what little pain you can. You don't give up until those last few ticks, and even then you usually don't stop. All the while running proto. This mode is for the elite of dust, go big or go home. Now it's just another PUB match until they come out with their "soon" changes that will make it worth it. Just stupid, they could have brought this change out with other incentives. Nope, overnight, hey guess what guys, you now make even less out of PC cause we NEEDED to fix this exploit priority. Was it really that important that it need to be done NOW? Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1353	Posted - 2015.04.15 19:08:00 - [46] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: Awesome! Especially since I planned to get into PC in a few days time. Be warned, Y.A.M.A.H is coming! Hah, good luck. You think the top corps are the top corps because of the isk?? You are in for quite the surprise. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5843	Posted - 2015.04.15 19:15:00 - [47] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: This isn't some pub match, this is the end game meta. If there is one mode where the best of the best is encouraged to be used, this is it. Your idea on what PC should be is just wrong. There should be absolutely no incentive to run cheap gear, yet here it is. This isn't just some glorified PUB match, where if you are losing, just switch to cheap fits and try to cause what little pain you can. You don't give up until those last few ticks, and even then you usually don't stop. All the while running proto. This mode is for the elite of dust, go big or go home. Now it's just another PUB match until they come out with their "soon" changes that will make it worth it. Just stupid, they could have brought this change out with other incentives. Nope, overnight, hey guess what guys, you now make even less out of PC cause we NEEDED to fix this exploit priority. Was it really that important that it need to be done NOW? You misunderstand my point. Under the planned rework, ISK rewards are not the primary rewards for the game mode. Therefor the type of gear you need to use, should be just slightly better than what the enemy is using. If the enemy wants to win, they're going to use the best they can, and you will do the same. If they don't care about the win, they'll use cheap gear and try to dupe you into burning ISK on expensive stuff. I think that in of itself is part of the meta. Since the real benefit comes from winning and holding the land, the win is what is important. Now obviously the redesign isn't in place yet, and as I've stated before I agree with you in that this seems a bit odd and really doesn't work since ISK is the only real profitability right now. So in effect, profitability of PC in its current form is pretty messed up. The point I was trying to make, is that I think this sort of thing actually works quite well under the planned system. So does it suck right now? Totally. But really....take a deep breath and calm down. This type of system will likely work in the long run. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1353	Posted - 2015.04.15 19:29:00 - [48] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: If they don't care about the win, they'll use cheap gear and try to dupe you into burning ISK on expensive stuff. And I think many are missing the fundemental of what PC is. It's not about bringing cheap stuff to make a profit. You aren't hurting anyone by doing that. Sure you might get a larger than normal payout (by LOSING mind you), but what was the point of the battle. This shouldn't be some pub you go afk in. We bring the best, and always will, and care little for the isk. Sometimes we don't even make a profit off a win. It's not about the isk for most of us, it's about the fight. And by encouraging the use of lesser gear to make a larger profit, there won't be many good fights. This idea that people get caught up in that PC has been about isk are just crazy. Sure for a select few it was (and we wiped a few of those off the starmap ourselves), but not for all. This sudden change will have more negative affects than it will positive. Sure it's easy to say chill out when you(and many others) aren't even involved in this mode. This didn't need to happen right this moment. I get that other changes are on the way, but without those changes, the only people that suffer are those that are already heavily invested into PC. And for what reason????? Yeah, I'm pissed, and others like me have every right to be. This isn't hurting the corps, but the PLAYERS. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 355	Posted - 2015.04.15 19:34:00 - [49] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: And I think many are missing the fundemental of what PC is. It's not about bringing cheap stuff to make a profit. You aren't hurting anyone by doing that. Sure you might get a larger than normal payout (by LOSING mind you), but what was the point of the battle. This shouldn't be some pub you go afk in. We bring the best, and always will, and care little for the isk. Sometimes we don't even make a profit off a win. It's not about the isk for most of us, it's about the fight. And by encouraging the use of lesser gear to make a larger profit, there won't be many good fights. This idea that people get caught up in that PC has been about isk are just crazy. Sure for a select few it was (and we wiped a few of those off the starmap ourselves), but not for all. This sudden change will have more negative affects than it will positive. Sure it's easy to say chill out when you(and many others) aren't even involved in this mode. This didn't need to happen right this moment. I get that other changes are on the way, but without those changes, the only people that suffer are those that are already heavily invested into PC. And for what reason????? Yeah, I'm pissed, and others like me have every right to be. This isn't hurting the corps, but the PLAYERS. Change the consistent tense in your post from present to past, and welcome to PC 2.0 ;) Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5846	Posted - 2015.04.15 19:42:00 - [50] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: If they don't care about the win, they'll use cheap gear and try to dupe you into burning ISK on expensive stuff. And I think many are missing the fundemental of what PC is. It's not about bringing cheap stuff to make a profit. You aren't hurting anyone by doing that. Sure you might get a larger than normal payout (by LOSING mind you), but what was the point of the battle. This shouldn't be some pub you go afk in. We bring the best, and always will, and care little for the isk. Sometimes we don't even make a profit off a win. It's not about the isk for most of us, it's about the fight. And by encouraging the use of lesser gear to make a larger profit, there won't be many good fights. This idea that people get caught up in that PC has been about isk are just crazy. Sure for a select few it was (and we wiped a few of those off the starmap ourselves), but not for all. This sudden change will have more negative affects than it will positive. Sure it's easy to say chill out when you(and many others) aren't even involved in this mode. This didn't need to happen right this moment. I get that other changes are on the way, but without those changes, the only people that suffer are those that are already heavily invested into PC. And for what reason????? Yeah, I'm pissed, and others like me have every right to be. This isn't hurting the corps, but the PLAYERS. I guess I don't see PC as "Must use Proto or it isn't fun" but rather a war of economy. Do you feel that the quality of gameplay in PC would be lessened if everyone ran something less than proto? I guess for me, a gun is a gun, tier just defines how much damage it does but the amount of needed damage also depends on how much defense the dude I'm shooting has. Now you could make the argument that lower suits have less flexibility and fun because of lack of slots, totally with you on that, which is why I support flatlined slot layouts, that's a different issue entirely. I guess I don't see it as "encouraging you to use the cheapest gear possible. If ISK isn't the issue, isn't it more an encouragement to use whatever gear is necessary to beat the enemy? And if the enemy really wants to win and take your district, won't they use the best they can? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net

nickmunson Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 79	Posted - 2015.04.15 20:16:00 - [51] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Then let's set the math aside. What functional, logical, immersive, or performance gaining reason do you have for having BPO's in PC? What is their functional purpose other than exploiting a defensive move to freely defend a district you know you are going to lose and forcing the enemy to incur ISK losses by doing so? How is that in any way fair for the attackers who have to deal with it? Are you saying that scorched earth tactics are an exploit? To that sounds like a war of economy. To me, it seems incredibly meta to use cheap/free gear in order to dupe the enemy into incurring more losses than they intended. If I know I'm going to lose a battle, I'm going to make damn sure that I make the guy taking my stuff suffer as much as possible. I think that in of itself, New Eden at its finest. Now don't get me wrong, in the current state of PC with this being the ONLY profitability in a district....it's not a good thing. However pending upcoming changes, I could see it as a valid tactic in winning the ISK war (since innate profitability will be baked into owning a district outside of ISK) Scorched Earth tactics are burning everything as you fall back to prevent the enemy from using it. Scorched Earth tactics are -NOT- letting them have it anyway and giving them a run for their money with absolutely no risk on your end. It'd be cool if it were a choice factor but this is an obvious choice. If I lose the first battle for the district, the second is where I start weighing my options. If I feel it's absolutely necessary to keep the district, I'll fight - otherwise, why bother wasting ISK? It's not a choice, it's a default, and every PC entity -ever- will make that choice; thereby, it's not so much a choice as a "use this tactic always and forever". It's going to get old -real freaggin quick- and, again, I see absolutely no reason why it should be a thing. The entire point of all of this was to offer good fights, wasn't it? Why sacrifice or risk those good fights by giving a mechanic like this when the simple solution is to simply prevent BPO's and APEX suits from being used in PC? Every time I brought up BPOs and APEXs, I heard "we don't have an economy for them to affect". Okay, well, we have player trading. We have asset selling. How far back are we going to move this goal post before we start seriously considering the implications that riskless, lossless assets have on the game? EDIT: Long story short, you're just taking one terrible meta (players giving up early and just letting their enemies have the district) and replacing it with another (fielding BPOs and doing damage with no risk/loss). The only players losing with this new mechanic are the attackers. Well since the primary profitability within PC in Rattatis new design has absolutely nothing to do with ISK at all, that aspect is non-issue. I'm not entirely sure what you're worried about. People using cheap gear? Doesn't that simply encourage the opposing side to use cheaper gear as well? What it does is encourage a sense of "use the bare minimum of what is necessary to win" . If one team is using BPOs, then you should use BPOs as well. Don't have a BPO? Use a standard ISK suits. Worried about losing money that way? You could literally mulch yourself in a PC match, and make all of the money you lost from running standard in a single pub match. The lost profitability from the other team running BPOs is simply not that much compared to them running standard suits and militia modules. Or are you worried you'll need to use proto gear to beat a team using BPOs? Well then you probably shouldn't be in PC. So again, under the new system, this simply allows people to use cheap gear to wear the enemy down if they want to. However since ownership of the district will actually provide benefit that isn't tied to ISK, what you end up with is a system where ISK is the means to fight the battle, but if you want to win, you're going to use the best you have because owning the district is valuable to you. So the moral of the story is, don't use more than you have to, but you might want to up it up a notch to secure the win if you want the true profit, which is in district ownership. you are taking out roles that ccp intended to be played in every game, there is no such thing as a cheap logi suit that would be viable, bpo links why? 15 seconds can not be used tactically . tanks forget about it, so there for av role is gone. theres 3 roles automatically thrown out of pc. its pretty much the same now as an ambush game mode just with an objective. love me or hate me. you kill me i hunt you.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1000	Posted - 2015.04.15 20:19:00 - [52] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Then let's set the math aside. What functional, logical, immersive, or performance gaining reason do you have for having BPO's in PC? What is their functional purpose other than exploiting a defensive move to freely defend a district you know you are going to lose and forcing the enemy to incur ISK losses by doing so? How is that in any way fair for the attackers who have to deal with it? Are you saying that scorched earth tactics are an exploit? To that sounds like a war of economy. To me, it seems incredibly meta to use cheap/free gear in order to dupe the enemy into incurring more losses than they intended. If I know I'm going to lose a battle, I'm going to make damn sure that I make the guy taking my stuff suffer as much as possible. I think that in of itself, New Eden at its finest. Now don't get me wrong, in the current state of PC with this being the ONLY profitability in a district....it's not a good thing. However pending upcoming changes, I could see it as a valid tactic in winning the ISK war (since innate profitability will be baked into owning a district outside of ISK) Scorched Earth tactics are burning everything as you fall back to prevent the enemy from using it. Scorched Earth tactics are -NOT- letting them have it anyway and giving them a run for their money with absolutely no risk on your end. It'd be cool if it were a choice factor but this is an obvious choice. If I lose the first battle for the district, the second is where I start weighing my options. If I feel it's absolutely necessary to keep the district, I'll fight - otherwise, why bother wasting ISK? It's not a choice, it's a default, and every PC entity -ever- will make that choice; thereby, it's not so much a choice as a "use this tactic always and forever". It's going to get old -real freaggin quick- and, again, I see absolutely no reason why it should be a thing. The entire point of all of this was to offer good fights, wasn't it? Why sacrifice or risk those good fights by giving a mechanic like this when the simple solution is to simply prevent BPO's and APEX suits from being used in PC? Every time I brought up BPOs and APEXs, I heard "we don't have an economy for them to affect". Okay, well, we have player trading. We have asset selling. How far back are we going to move this goal post before we start seriously considering the implications that riskless, lossless assets have on the game? EDIT: Long story short, you're just taking one terrible meta (players giving up early and just letting their enemies have the district) and replacing it with another (fielding BPOs and doing damage with no risk/loss). The only players losing with this new mechanic are the attackers. youll lose ISK either way. BPO's or not, they can still use militia gear. Militia gear still has an ISK loss. I'll take all militia gear over all BPO's any day. A marginal loss to my opponent's wallet is worth far more than absolutely nothing but gains for them. EDIT: Not to mention, it's harder to fit and usually comes with stuff like reduced magazine sizes and what not. So it's better all around than riskless BPO's which are on-par with Standard gear. S'whatever, I've said my piece. If I do start doing PCs again I'll just abstain from ever participating in a second/third match because it will be utter BS. You can still force them out of BPO gear by using vehicles. If they want to cause isk losses to you then they'll need proto av. They can fling BPO av at you for WP but they'll be hard pressed to get a kill. Escalate the match and be smart. You can always run BPO yourself after securing a victory to deny them a payout
Silver Strike44 612	Posted - 2015.04.15 20:27:00 - [53] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: If they don't care about the win, they'll use cheap gear and try to dupe you into burning ISK on expensive stuff. And I think many are missing the fundemental of what PC is. It's not about bringing cheap stuff to make a profit. You aren't hurting anyone by doing that. Sure you might get a larger than normal payout (by LOSING mind you), but what was the point of the battle. This shouldn't be some pub you go afk in. We bring the best, and always will, and care little for the isk. Sometimes we don't even make a profit off a win. It's not about the isk for most of us, it's about the fight. And by encouraging the use of lesser gear to make a larger profit, there won't be many good fights. This idea that people get caught up in that PC has been about isk are just crazy. Sure for a select few it was (and we wiped a few of those off the starmap ourselves), but not for all. This sudden change will have more negative affects than it will positive. Sure it's easy to say chill out when you(and many others) aren't even involved in this mode. This didn't need to happen right this moment. I get that other changes are on the way, but without those changes, the only people that suffer are those that are already heavily invested into PC. And for what reason????? Yeah, I'm pissed, and others like me have every right to be. This isn't hurting the corps, but the PLAYERS. I guess I don't see PC as "Must use Proto or it isn't fun" but rather a war of economy. Do you feel that the quality of gameplay in PC would be lessened if everyone ran something less than proto? I guess for me, a gun is a gun, tier just defines how much damage it does but the amount of needed damage also depends on how much defense the dude I'm shooting has. Now you could make the argument that lower suits have less flexibility and fun because of lack of slots, totally with you on that, which is why I support flatlined slot layouts, that's a different issue entirely. I guess I don't see it as "encouraging you to use the cheapest gear possible. If ISK isn't the issue, isn't it more an encouragement to use whatever gear is necessary to beat the enemy? And if the enemy really wants to win and take your district, won't they use the best they can? Would you not define PC as endgame content? I think most would. Endgame content consists of using what assets (skills points) you have amassed in order to be competitive with others or be challenged in another way. Since Dust is a strictly multiplayer game, it the endgame content should be highly competitive and require the highest level of everything (skill and gear) in order to compete. Maybe and hopefully CCP will bring PC to where it should be when the major changes come about, but it is a broken and meaningless game mode until then. My YouTube Channel
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5848	Posted - 2015.04.15 21:06:00 - [54] - Quote nickmunson wrote: you are taking out roles that ccp intended to be played in every game, there is no such thing as a cheap logi suit that would be viable, bpo links why? 15 seconds can not be used tactically . tanks forget about it, so there for av role is gone. theres 3 roles automatically thrown out of pc. its pretty much the same now as an ambush game mode just with an objective. You do realize that there will be profitability in PC 2.0 besides ISK right? Profitability that can be used to recoup losses from using higher tiered gear in battles. Silver Strike44 wrote: Would you not define PC as endgame content? I think most would. Endgame content consists of using what assets (skills points) you have amassed in order to be competitive with others or be challenged in another way. Since Dust is a strictly multiplayer game, it the endgame content should be highly competitive and require the highest level of everything (skill and gear) in order to compete. Then use the highest level gear you can, either your enemy will do the same, or you will crush them. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 988	Posted - 2015.04.15 21:39:00 - [55] - Quote Bremen van Equis wrote: ...welcome to #lolPUBS 2.0 ;) FTFY Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 988	Posted - 2015.04.15 22:06:00 - [56] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: nickmunson wrote: you are taking out roles that ccp intended to be played in every game, there is no such thing as a cheap logi suit that would be viable, bpo links why? 15 seconds can not be used tactically . tanks forget about it, so there for av role is gone. theres 3 roles automatically thrown out of pc. its pretty much the same now as an ambush game mode just with an objective. You do realize that there will be profitability in PC 2.0 besides ISK right? Profitability that can be used to recoup losses from using higher tiered gear in battles. Silver Strike44 wrote: Would you not define PC as endgame content? I think most would. Endgame content consists of using what assets (skills points) you have amassed in order to be competitive with others or be challenged in another way. Since Dust is a strictly multiplayer game, it the endgame content should be highly competitive and require the highest level of everything (skill and gear) in order to compete. Then use the highest level gear you can, either your enemy will do the same, or you will crush them. Gear is not a function of skill or ability, it's entirely based off of how much time you've spent playing the game, and how much ISK you have. --- The point I'll make before I leave the thread is basically....yes it sucks now, not sure why they decided to do this before the 2.0 rollout....likely to set expectations for ISK payouts. But the fact remains that profitability in PC 2.0 is not tied to ISK, in fact it's almost entirely NOT ISK. That being said, getting upset over a drastic change in ISK payout is pointless because you'll be recouping your costs via other means. You will still be expected and able to run Proto gear because owning the district actually produces far more profit, than battle to battle earnings. If you want to be profitable in the long run, hold the district. If you want to hold the district, use what it takes to hold the district. That is where you bread and butter is. If people attack your district and harass you with cheap gear, then use cheap gear against them and win. If they really want to take the district, which is the real source of income, they wont be using BPOs. So will you have to deal with people trying to raid you using BPOs? Yes. That's part of defending your turf, so don't use more than you have to to fend them off. However it's the people that bring the Proto because they're looking to take your district, that's the true End-Game. So does it suck right now? Yes. But quite honestly it seems like many of the people who are freaking out are not really seeing and comprehending the whole picture of what PC 2.0 is supposed to entail. You won't be seeing BPO vs BPO battles for district control, because if the defender wants to hold their **, they're going to bring out bigger guns, and if the attackers want to take that **, they'll do the same. For the battles that actually matter, you'll still see the best of the best throwing everything they have against each other. Pokey, the more commentary I read from you in tryng to justify this the more utterly divorced from the reality of the topic I realize you are. We've seen bpo's fielded in PC ever since bpo's were available. "Serious" battles or otherwise. "Battle to battle earnings" has been by far the best and fairest payment system to date. Paid for performance, direct to the merc. No passive accrual, no active generation reliant on however many different people to get a merc PAID for a battle. There is NO profitability without isk. ANY other, extra means or ethergoo or w/e ultimately is converted to ISK and every single step in between Fighting and Gettin' Paid is a timewaster, a chance to not be paid properly OR BOTH. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2028	Posted - 2015.04.15 22:48:00 - [57] - Quote Considering the "think tank" thread is totally missing and planetary conquest revisted has been moved to development archives, CCP has made up there mind on where PC 2.0 will start and go. This is obviously a precursor and or teaser to that. So the thought remains, who will be justified? The whiners or the far-seers. My money's on pokey. I literally can not understand how people can survive being so inept.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5851	Posted - 2015.04.15 22:54:00 - [58] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Pokey, the more commentary I read from you in tryng to justify this the more utterly divorced from the reality of the topic I realize you are. We've seen bpo's fielded in PC ever since bpo's were available. "Serious" battles or otherwise. "Battle to battle earnings" has been by far the best and fairest payment system to date. Paid for performance, direct to the merc. No passive accrual, no active generation reliant on however many different people to get a merc PAID for a battle. There is NO profitability without isk. ANY other, extra means or ethergoo or w/e ultimately is converted to ISK and every single step in between Fighting and Gettin' Paid is a timewaster, a chance to not be paid properly OR BOTH. Have you read Rattati's PC 2.0 proposal yet? What are your thoughts on BMKs? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5012	Posted - 2015.04.15 23:51:00 - [59] - Quote Okay, after playing a PC in the new system it does seem to be working as intended. Both teams went all out with proto gear. The end result was that we won and received a bit over 1.3m ISK per merc and the enemy team got just over 900k ISK. In effect we won the match and did so loosing around 30% less in ISK assets than our opponent. I died 6 times in a full proto logi and once in a proto scout but still made about 200k profit . I would say this is largely due to running factional proto suits though, which adds an interesting wrinkle. It seems in this system faction gear can really give that ISK efficiency edge. Looking at the system I would make one fairly minor change. Give the winner all of the salvage for the fight. Before salvage was split between the teams as the stop-gap to encourage players to fight even a loosing match. With ISK being derived for each team with "keep what you kill" it makes sense to shift the salvage to the winner. I think this would serve as a good immediate EOM bonus for being the winner. Logically it would make sense as the winners would be the ones that can pick over the battlefield for that salvaged gear. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 991	Posted - 2015.04.16 00:02:00 - [60] - Quote 1. Yes, bpo's are common enough in PC to say they are common. 2. YES, bpo's will be used for flips because you've incentivised it. This is "race to the bottom" stuff, by rewarding poor performance (losing in free fits) you now drive playerbase to exploit that reward system, ie PC in free suits. 3.No, I do not recall Rattati having posted a PC2.0 document proposal. I am relying on these forums, the official game forums, to have that info but haven't seen it. What has been posted, has been little else than real vague and general concept stuff. Not formal proposals and nothing with a reference to "BMK"s. 4. Which brings us to the actual problem here- Pokey wrote: ...people are freaking out because the profit isn't going to be in their pockets immediately at the end of battle. However if you're getting BMKs deposited into your account because you've continued to successfully defended (sic) your district, you're still getting paid in a currency which allows you to buy the same damn thing that you would have with isk. I honestly do not see how that is problematic (pending actual final numbers of course) Yes, people who are currently active in PC are pissed because because you just **** our being paid on the fights we have. And it's been ** before** the "final, actual" replacement has been determined- let alone IMPLEMENTED. SO, while the data analytics powers-that-be scour the spreadsheets moving forward to digest and draw hypotheticals the PC playerbase gets robbed on payouts. Unless, we buy and use a bpo. Because this kind of bs is exactly the way to drive add-on sales. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 991	Posted - 2015.04.16 00:07:00 - [61] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Okay, after playing a PC in the new system it does seem to be working as intended. Both teams went all out with proto gear. The end result was that we won and received a bit over 1.3m ISK per merc and the enemy team got just over 900k ISK. In effect we won the match and did so loosing around 30% less in ISK assets than our opponent. I died 6 times in a full proto logi and once in a proto scout but still made about 200k profit . I would say this is largely due to running factional proto suits though, which adds an interesting wrinkle. It seems in this system faction gear can really give that ISK efficiency edge. Looking at the system I would make one fairly minor change. Give the winner all of the salvage for the fight. Before salvage was split between the teams as the stop-gap to encourage players to fight even a loosing match. With ISK being derived for each team with "keep what you kill" it makes sense to shift the salvage to the winner. I think this would serve as a good immediate EOM bonus for being the winner. Logically it would make sense as the winners would be the ones that can pick over the battlefield for that salvaged gear. Salvage sold for peanuts,btw to NPC or traded out at risk to the traders and minus 10% or something stupid as well. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5013	Posted - 2015.04.16 00:15:00 - [62] - Quote I don't know. Getting the ISK value of what you killed on the enemy side plus 50% of all equipment lost in the match seems like a pretty good deal for a win. I do have to agree about the trade fee. The picture from the blog was from a test and CCP Rattati mentioned it landing lower than 10%. I'm hoping for only a 1% fee, but we'll see. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2029	Posted - 2015.04.16 01:16:00 - [63] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Okay, after playing a PC in the new system it does seem to be working as intended. Both teams went all out with proto gear. The end result was that we won and received a bit over 1.3m ISK per merc and the enemy team got just over 900k ISK. In effect we won the match and did so loosing around 30% less in ISK assets than our opponent. I died 6 times in a full proto logi and once in a proto scout but still made about 200k profit . I would say this is largely due to running factional proto suits though, which adds an interesting wrinkle. It seems in this system faction gear can really give that ISK efficiency edge. Looking at the system I would make one fairly minor change. Give the winner all of the salvage for the fight. Before salvage was split between the teams as the stop-gap to encourage players to fight even a loosing match. With ISK being derived for each team with "keep what you kill" it makes sense to shift the salvage to the winner. I think this would serve as a good immediate EOM bonus for being the winner. Logically it would make sense as the winners would be the ones that can pick over the battlefield for that salvaged gear. Salvage sold for peanuts,btw to NPC or traded out at risk to the traders and minus 10% or something stupid as well. Man this is beautiful, Kain shuts down youre argument so you have to resort to betching about selling the goddamn salvage. Or trading it with an unfinalized tax at this point. Maybe the sky isnt falling chicken little I literally can not understand how people can survive being so inept.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5859	Posted - 2015.04.16 01:54:00 - [64] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: 3.No, I do not recall Rattati having posted a PC2.0 document proposal. I am relying on these forums, the official game forums, to have that info but haven't seen it. What has been posted, has been little else than real vague and general concept stuff. Not formal proposals and nothing with a reference to "BMK"s. Here you go [Source] In the future make sure you have all of the information before going on an emotionally driven tirade. Its unbecoming. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5859	Posted - 2015.04.16 01:56:00 - [65] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: 3.No, I do not recall Rattati having posted a PC2.0 document proposal. I am relying on these forums, the official game forums, to have that info but haven't seen it. What has been posted, has been little else than real vague and general concept stuff. Not formal proposals and nothing with a reference to "BMK"s. Here you go https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2715403 (You might have to copy the URL to the bar, been getting 404 errors lately from links for some reason) In the future make sure you have all of the information before going on an emotionally driven tirade. Its unbecoming. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 363	Posted - 2015.04.16 02:08:00 - [66] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Bremen van Equis wrote: ...welcome to #lolPUBS 2.0 ;) FTFY See you soonGÇªin pubsGÇªfor ISK ;) Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2029	Posted - 2015.04.16 02:10:00 - [67] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: 3.No, I do not recall Rattati having posted a PC2.0 document proposal. I am relying on these forums, the official game forums, to have that info but haven't seen it. What has been posted, has been little else than real vague and general concept stuff. Not formal proposals and nothing with a reference to "BMK"s. Here you go https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2715403 (You might have to copy the URL to the bar, been getting 404 errors lately from links for some reason) In the future make sure you have all of the information before going on an emotionally driven tirade. Its unbecoming. He's moved the end path on it twice tonight already I literally can not understand how people can survive being so inept.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 993	Posted - 2015.04.16 02:12:00 - [68] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Okay, after playing a PC in the new system it does seem to be working as intended. Both teams went all out with proto gear. The end result was that we won and received a bit over 1.3m ISK per merc and the enemy team got just over 900k ISK. In effect we won the match and did so loosing around 30% less in ISK assets than our opponent. I died 6 times in a full proto logi and once in a proto scout but still made about 200k profit . I would say this is largely due to running factional proto suits though, which adds an interesting wrinkle. It seems in this system faction gear can really give that ISK efficiency edge. Looking at the system I would make one fairly minor change. Give the winner all of the salvage for the fight. Before salvage was split between the teams as the stop-gap to encourage players to fight even a loosing match. With ISK being derived for each team with "keep what you kill" it makes sense to shift the salvage to the winner. I think this would serve as a good immediate EOM bonus for being the winner. Logically it would make sense as the winners would be the ones that can pick over the battlefield for that salvaged gear. Salvage sold for peanuts,btw to NPC or traded out at risk to the traders and minus 10% or something stupid as well. Man this is beautiful, Kain shuts down youre argument so you have to resort to betching about selling the goddamn salvage. Or trading it with an unfinalized tax at this point. Maybe the sky isnt falling chicken little I didn't say the sky is falling, scoobie. I said PC pay is. Kain is proving that, with his 200k profit on his 1.7M payout. Pay has fallen to standard Pub Match profit margins. Pay has fallen, been driven down, with the idea it will be made up for elsewhere. Where and how that "elsewhere" is will be determined "Soon(TM)". In the mean time, a distinctive gamemode in a game without enough content to begin with gets homogenized into being identical to already existing gamemodes. My comment on the salvage is an aside to the greater issue, not a replacement, troll. Shouldn't you be on a mic being an idiot somewhere and not in here pretending to know how to read? Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 993	Posted - 2015.04.16 02:16:00 - [69] - Quote Bremen van Equis wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Bremen van Equis wrote: ...welcome to #lolPUBS 2.0 ;) FTFY See you soonGÇªin pubsGÇªfor ISK ;) Pffft, come on over and bring your friends. Ain't skurred. LOL @ "for isk". The isk off my dragonfly you mean. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1001	Posted - 2015.04.16 02:18:00 - [70] - Quote The only people who'll be running BPO's in PC are noobs that don't know what they're doing, and vets that know exactly what they're doing. I'm going to make sure I win the match, but I'll do it as efficiently as possible. If I know you suck... And lots of you do even in proto, I'll just murder you in BPO gear. This is great because I've always played this way. The only people going to suffer from this are the ones who only do well while wear proto. The guys that'll make isk by the boat load are the guys that kill you in your proto while they're wearing apex suits. Proto gear < skill < experience Stop embarrassing yourselves with all the complaints that you can't make isk in proto anymore. The best of us are isk positive no matter what we wear or use.

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 993	Posted - 2015.04.16 02:23:00 - [71] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: 3.No, I do not recall Rattati having posted a PC2.0 document proposal. I am relying on these forums, the official game forums, to have that info but haven't seen it. What has been posted, has been little else than real vague and general concept stuff. Not formal proposals and nothing with a reference to "BMK"s. Here you go https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2715403 (You might have to copy the URL to the bar, been getting 404 errors lately from links for some reason) In the future make sure you have all of the information before going on an emotionally driven tirade. Its unbecoming. 404s either way, direct or url copy/pasted. I appreciate your trying to link it, but since it should be stickied nice and large somewhere simply telling me where should be enough. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2029	Posted - 2015.04.16 02:54:00 - [72] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Okay, after playing a PC in the new system it does seem to be working as intended. Both teams went all out with proto gear. The end result was that we won and received a bit over 1.3m ISK per merc and the enemy team got just over 900k ISK. In effect we won the match and did so loosing around 30% less in ISK assets than our opponent. I died 6 times in a full proto logi and once in a proto scout but still made about 200k profit . I would say this is largely due to running factional proto suits though, which adds an interesting wrinkle. It seems in this system faction gear can really give that ISK efficiency edge. Looking at the system I would make one fairly minor change. Give the winner all of the salvage for the fight. Before salvage was split between the teams as the stop-gap to encourage players to fight even a loosing match. With ISK being derived for each team with "keep what you kill" it makes sense to shift the salvage to the winner. I think this would serve as a good immediate EOM bonus for being the winner. Logically it would make sense as the winners would be the ones that can pick over the battlefield for that salvaged gear. Salvage sold for peanuts,btw to NPC or traded out at risk to the traders and minus 10% or something stupid as well. Man this is beautiful, Kain shuts down youre argument so you have to resort to betching about selling the goddamn salvage. Or trading it with an unfinalized tax at this point. Maybe the sky isnt falling chicken little I didn't say the sky is falling, scoobie. I said PC pay is. Kain is proving that, with his 200k profit on his 1.7M payout. Pay has fallen to standard Pub Match profit margins. Pay has fallen, been driven down, with the idea it will be made up for elsewhere. Where and how that "elsewhere" is will be determined "Soon(TM)". In the mean time, a distinctive gamemode in a game without enough content to begin with gets homogenized into being identical to already existing gamemodes. My comment on the salvage is an aside to the greater issue, not a replacement, troll. Shouldn't you be on a mic being an idiot somewhere and not in here pretending to know how to read? 1.3 million. Some snark about knowing how to read. The more and more you sperg on about slayer-pay, the more apparent that you have only ever done that. You see no strategy, you see no long term logistics, you have no concept of corp-morale, or even underclassed incentive. All you see is you're fu-cking self. ME ME ME I AND MY ELITES NEED TO BE PAID MORE Guess what neckbeard? That entire mentality right there is why you have no NEW corps in PC, no small-medium sized low skill, entry level meatbags to shoot, because eww filthy peasants, why should they get ANYTHING for daring to have a fight with ME? Then you all cry and cry that PC is stagnant and its only the same 50 dudes shooting eachother at any time. Do you even understand why? Because NO NEW CORP wants to beg their mercs for ISKies to buy a shitpack, that immediately gets vaporized a bunch of grizzled try-hards that do nothing but sit around and stroke egos while beating off to RoadHouse saying welcome to the thunderdome biatch. A loss or two with absolutely no payback (we'll discount salvage because you like to do that) is irrecoverably detrimental to such corps. You build and build and build and train, work your guys hard, to get immiediately stomped out of existence, for what? FOR FUKING WHAT? Garbage. Absolute Garbage. Theres no incentive for new players in PC unless theyre already ultra rich and bored. Making someone feel they have a fighting chance because they can get something for trying hard to fight, is the carrot on a stick approach to get you new bros to slaughter religiously. Giving this new crude attrition model also makes it attractive to pirate corps, like mine, who have no interest in holding land, but hey, ill throw the boys a bone and attack some shithole district, lol around in BPOs and weaken the aforementioned district for someone else to come along and actually slam it. My guys are happy, they get paid for messing up someones day while doing cheap, and possibly setting off a chain of events that make the defender lose that district. But no, you dont see any of this. Or maybe you do, but you're so goddamn butthurt someone had the audacity to change YOUR PAY SLIGHTLY so as to invite fresh blood, that youre going to ***** and fu-cking moan and sperg about because PAY ME PAY ME PAY ME PAY ME I get you and your cohort are all about that. Good for fukking you, bad for the game assclown. The change is in the right direction, whether you can fathom that or not, is yet to be entirely seen. PS, this might be what Pokey was trying to show you. Its in the archives now, meaning itll be in-game somewhere between 2 to 6 weeks. Theres a chart here. Goddamn children these days. I literally can not understand how people can survive being so inept.
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 366	Posted - 2015.04.16 03:12:00 - [73] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucdY9ez7j3g Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5861	Posted - 2015.04.16 03:28:00 - [74] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: 3.No, I do not recall Rattati having posted a PC2.0 document proposal. I am relying on these forums, the official game forums, to have that info but haven't seen it. What has been posted, has been little else than real vague and general concept stuff. Not formal proposals and nothing with a reference to "BMK"s. Here you go https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2715403 (You might have to copy the URL to the bar, been getting 404 errors lately from links for some reason) In the future make sure you have all of the information before going on an emotionally driven tirade. Its unbecoming. 404s either way, direct or url copy/pasted. I appreciate your trying to link it, but since it should be stickied nice and large somewhere simply telling me where should be enough. CCP Rattati wrote: True Adamance wrote: I'm wondering how you all view the CP measure. Would it lead to a more competitive and organic a mercenary economy or a less competitive one. This is the synopsis. "Don't own something, that you can't defend" From my WIP document: Corporation Members need to Finish Daily Missions, earning Command Points for the Corporation. Any Corporation Actions require Command Points, and thus, the activity of a Corporation is limited by the size of the Corporation and activity of its members. Wealth accumulation is through Active sales of Clones, that are generated on Districts. Wealth can also be generated through Tax income from Corp Members. Corporations will also be able to attack Districts using Clone Packs that only cost Command Points, making money by inflicting more losses on the enemy team than they lose themselves, using the new "Keep what you Kill" ISK reward method. Black Market Kredits are created and distributed equally to all Corporation Members on Clone Sales. BMK's can be used to buy Black Market goods, such as unique BPO's and gear. Additionally those who applied to the PC think tank received correspondence from Rattati outlining those same details. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5861	Posted - 2015.04.16 03:32:00 - [75] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: PS, this might be what Pokey was trying to show you. Its in the archives now, meaning itll be in-game somewhere between 2 to 6 weeks. Theres a chart here. EDIT FFS RATATTI fix the link to the damn development discussion archives its called Planetary Conquest Revisited, incase you actually do intend to read it Goddamn children these days. Actually not the same thing but a good post nonetheless. And god damn what is wrong with links lately? I thought it was just a one time thing but pretty much all links of the forums lately seem totally messed up... "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2671	Posted - 2015.04.16 03:42:00 - [76] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Considering the "think tank" thread is totally missing and planetary conquest revisted has been moved to development archives, CCP has made up there mind on where PC 2.0 will start and go. This is obviously a precursor and or teaser to that. So the thought remains, who will be justified? The whiners or the far-seers. My money's on pokey. Mine too. PSN: RationalSpark
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1001	Posted - 2015.04.16 04:07:00 - [77] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Okay, after playing a PC in the new system it does seem to be working as intended. Both teams went all out with proto gear. The end result was that we won and received a bit over 1.3m ISK per merc and the enemy team got just over 900k ISK. In effect we won the match and did so loosing around 30% less in ISK assets than our opponent. I died 6 times in a full proto logi and once in a proto scout but still made about 200k profit . I would say this is largely due to running factional proto suits though, which adds an interesting wrinkle. It seems in this system faction gear can really give that ISK efficiency edge. Looking at the system I would make one fairly minor change. Give the winner all of the salvage for the fight. Before salvage was split between the teams as the stop-gap to encourage players to fight even a loosing match. With ISK being derived for each team with "keep what you kill" it makes sense to shift the salvage to the winner. I think this would serve as a good immediate EOM bonus for being the winner. Logically it would make sense as the winners would be the ones that can pick over the battlefield for that salvaged gear. Salvage sold for peanuts,btw to NPC or traded out at risk to the traders and minus 10% or something stupid as well. Man this is beautiful, Kain shuts down youre argument so you have to resort to betching about selling the goddamn salvage. Or trading it with an unfinalized tax at this point. Maybe the sky isnt falling chicken little I didn't say the sky is falling, scoobie. I said PC pay is. Kain is proving that, with his 200k profit on his 1.7M payout. Pay has fallen to standard Pub Match profit margins. Pay has fallen, been driven down, with the idea it will be made up for elsewhere. Where and how that "elsewhere" is will be determined "Soon(TM)". In the mean time, a distinctive gamemode in a game without enough content to begin with gets homogenized into being identical to already existing gamemodes. My comment on the salvage is an aside to the greater issue, not a replacement, troll. Shouldn't you be on a mic being an idiot somewhere and not in here pretending to know how to read? 1.3 million. Some snark about knowing how to read. The more and more you sperg on about slayer-pay, the more apparent that you have only ever done that. You see no strategy, you see no long term logistics, you have no concept of corp-morale, or even underclassed incentive. All you see is you're fu-cking self. ME ME ME I AND MY ELITES NEED TO BE PAID MORE Guess what neckbeard? That entire mentality right there is why you have no NEW corps in PC, no small-medium sized low skill, entry level meatbags to shoot, because eww filthy peasants, why should they get ANYTHING for daring to have a fight with ME? Then you all cry and cry that PC is stagnant and its only the same 50 dudes shooting eachother at any time. Do you even understand why? Because NO NEW CORP wants to beg their mercs for ISKies to buy a shitpack, that immediately gets vaporized a bunch of grizzled try-hards that do nothing but sit around and stroke egos while beating off to RoadHouse saying welcome to the thunderdome biatch. A loss or two with absolutely no payback (we'll discount salvage because you like to do that) is irrecoverably detrimental to such corps. You build and build and build and train, work your guys hard, to get immiediately stomped out of existence, for what? FOR FUKING WHAT? Garbage. Absolute Garbage. Theres no incentive for new players in PC unless theyre already ultra rich and bored. Making someone feel they have a fighting chance because they can get something for trying hard to fight, is the carrot on a stick approach to get you new bros to slaughter religiously. Giving this new crude attrition model also makes it attractive to pirate corps, like mine, who have no interest in holding land, but hey, ill throw the boys a bone and attack some shithole district, lol around in BPOs and weaken the aforementioned district for someone else to come along and actually slam it. My guys are happy, they get paid for messing up someones day while doing cheap, and possibly setting off a chain of events that make the defender lose that district. But no, you dont see any of this. Or maybe you do, but you're so goddamn butthurt someone had the audacity to change YOUR PAY SLIGHTLY so as to invite fresh blood, that youre going to *** and fu-cking moan and sperg about because PAY ME PAY ME PAY ME PAY ME I get you and your cohort are all about that. Good for fukking you, bad for the game assclown. The change is in the right direction, whether you can fathom that or not, is yet to be entirely seen. PS, this might be what Pokey was trying to show you. Its in the archives now, meaning itll be in-game somewhere between 2 to 6 weeks. Theres a chart here. EDIT FFS RATATTI fix the link to the damn development discussion archives its called Planetary Conquest Revisited, incase you actually do intend to read it Goddamn children these days. LOL Nice trolltears. You don't win, you deserve to lose. Period. I personally have given out multiple districts directly to new and small corps, in alliance, out of alliance even to "enemies". Hell, while your scrub self was evidently busy QQing about how unfair PC is I was literally selling clones off districts, at a healthy 0 profit btw, so make them "Unoccupied" so that ANYONE could place their own clones and PC. Hilarious you want to talk ** to me but while you've been busy talking I've been busy PCing. GG Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1001	Posted - 2015.04.16 04:25:00 - [78] - Quote Thank You Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: True Adamance wrote: I'm wondering how you all view the CP measure. Would it lead to a more competitive and organic a mercenary economy or a less competitive one. This is the synopsis. "Don't own something, that you can't defend" From my WIP document: Corporation Members need to Finish Daily Missions, earning Command Points for the Corporation. Any Corporation Actions require Command Points, and thus, the activity of a Corporation is limited by the size of the Corporation and activity of its members. Wealth accumulation is through Active sales of Clones, that are generated on Districts. Wealth can also be generated through Tax income from Corp Members. Corporations will also be able to attack Districts using Clone Packs that only cost Command Points, making money by inflicting more losses on the enemy team than they lose themselves, using the new "Keep what you Kill" ISK reward method. Black Market Kredits are created and distributed equally to all Corporation Members on Clone Sales. BMK's can be used to buy Black Market goods, such as unique BPO's and gear. Additionally those who applied to the PC think tank received correspondence from Rattati outlining those same details. Ok, now those are nice ideas BUT clearly there isn't a fully finalized and ready to implement set of parameters there. BMK? So, more LP? More rebranding of the same already existing elements as a guise of "new content"? I'm not buying, but whatever. Long story short, if this is the totality of the info at this time then the assertion that PC payouts should be restructured rigt now is an absolute Farce. Payouts have been redrawn so that later on they can be added to. Why not have everything ready to go, THEN redraw them? Losers, apparently, can't handle being told and shown that they LOST, and need a feel-good prize. A....scrubaward? Fine. I understand that. But...a Profit ?? Even if you lose, you still win? That's Pub stuff and should stay there. Inb4 the next yaddayaddaL337piratevikingpubstar, I wouldn't get paid from a loss either. Learn to punch up instead of insisting on dragging down. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2041	Posted - 2015.04.16 04:48:00 - [79] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Salvage sold for peanuts,btw to NPC or traded out at risk to the traders and minus 10% or something stupid as well. Man this is beautiful, Kain shuts down youre argument so you have to resort to betching about selling the goddamn salvage. Or trading it with an unfinalized tax at this point. Maybe the sky isnt falling chicken little I didn't say the sky is falling, scoobie. I said PC pay is. Kain is proving that, with his 200k profit on his 1.7M payout. Pay has fallen to standard Pub Match profit margins. Pay has fallen, been driven down, with the idea it will be made up for elsewhere. Where and how that "elsewhere" is will be determined "Soon(TM)". In the mean time, a distinctive gamemode in a game without enough content to begin with gets homogenized into being identical to already existing gamemodes. My comment on the salvage is an aside to the greater issue, not a replacement, troll. Shouldn't you be on a mic being an idiot somewhere and not in here pretending to know how to read? 1.3 million. Some snark about knowing how to read. The more and more you sperg on about slayer-pay, the more apparent that you have only ever done that. You see no strategy, you see no long term logistics, you have no concept of corp-morale, or even underclassed incentive. All you see is you're fu-cking self. ME ME ME I AND MY ELITES NEED TO BE PAID MORE Guess what neckbeard? That entire mentality right there is why you have no NEW corps in PC, no small-medium sized low skill, entry level meatbags to shoot, because eww filthy peasants, why should they get ANYTHING for daring to have a fight with ME? Then you all cry and cry that PC is stagnant and its only the same 50 dudes shooting eachother at any time. Do you even understand why? Because NO NEW CORP wants to beg their mercs for ISKies to buy a shitpack, that immediately gets vaporized a bunch of grizzled try-hards that do nothing but sit around and stroke egos while beating off to RoadHouse saying welcome to the thunderdome biatch. A loss or two with absolutely no payback (we'll discount salvage because you like to do that) is irrecoverably detrimental to such corps. You build and build and build and train, work your guys hard, to get immiediately stomped out of existence, for what? FOR FUKING WHAT? Garbage. Absolute Garbage. Theres no incentive for new players in PC unless theyre already ultra rich and bored. Making someone feel they have a fighting chance because they can get something for trying hard to fight, is the carrot on a stick approach to get you new bros to slaughter religiously. Giving this new crude attrition model also makes it attractive to pirate corps, like mine, who have no interest in holding land, but hey, ill throw the boys a bone and attack some shithole district, lol around in BPOs and weaken the aforementioned district for someone else to come along and actually slam it. My guys are happy, they get paid for messing up someones day while doing cheap, and possibly setting off a chain of events that make the defender lose that district. But no, you dont see any of this. Or maybe you do, but you're so goddamn butthurt someone had the audacity to change YOUR PAY SLIGHTLY so as to invite fresh blood, that youre going to *** and fu-cking moan and sperg about because PAY ME PAY ME PAY ME PAY ME I get you and your cohort are all about that. Good for fukking you, bad for the game assclown. The change is in the right direction, whether you can fathom that or not, is yet to be entirely seen. PS, this might be what Pokey was trying to show you. Its in the archives now, meaning itll be in-game somewhere between 2 to 6 weeks. Theres a chart here. EDIT FFS RATATTI fix the link to the damn development discussion archives its called Planetary Conquest Revisited, incase you actually do intend to read it Goddamn children these days. LOL Nice trolltears. You don't win, you deserve to lose. Period. I personally have given out multiple districts directly to new and small corps, in alliance, out of alliance even to "enemies". Hell, while your scrub self was evidently busy QQing about how unfair PC is I was literally selling clones off districts, at a healthy 0 profit btw, so make them "Unoccupied" so that ANYONE could place their own clones and PC. Hilarious you want to talk ** to me but while you've been busy talking I've been busy PCing. GG Its great you haven't wised up. It really is. It shows how entirely insular and worthless the current PC crowd is. I really do hope it dies now, because then you'll have no reason to play. How many, HOW MANY of those 'give aways' stuck it out? How many realized its not worth it? How many just rolled back over and fukking left? How many to THIS DAY fight AGAINST YOU? If any number greater than 0 is your ego-tastic response I truly will be surprised. Incentive and Longevity are two things you DO NOT understand, as much as you want to tell me and the other 99% of DUSTs population you do. If you did, perhaps you'd get it. Onwards, to PC 2.0! I literally can not understand how people can survive being so inept.
Silver Strike44 617	Posted - 2015.04.16 04:58:00 - [80] - Quote I just played two PC battles between high level corps. In both battles, a decent amount of clones, all in proto gear as far as I know, were lost and the team I was on won. The first game I earned about 1.1 million ISK and lost 8 suits, I believe. Each of the suits I lost cost me around 190k ISK. That is a net loss of around 400k ISK. In the next battle, I earned around 1 million ISK and lost 5 of those 190k ISK suits. That is a net gain of around 50k ISK. Over the course of two PCs where only proto was used between two high level corps and I wouldnt say I died more than a reasonable amount of times, I lost a few hundred thousand ISK. The corp I played for earned nothing in the way of ISK, just a meaningless district and none of the people on my team gained a significant amount of ISK if they earned ISK at all. Is this not ridiculous? My YouTube Channel

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5877	Posted - 2015.04.16 05:03:00 - [81] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Thank You Ok, now those are nice ideas BUT clearly there isn't a fully finalized and ready to implement set of parameters there. BMK? So, more LP? More rebranding of the same already existing elements as a guise of "new content"? I'm not buying, but whatever. Long story short, if this is the totality of the info at this time then the assertion that PC payouts should be restructured rigt now is an absolute Farce. Payouts have been redrawn so that later on they can be added to. Why not have everything ready to go, THEN redraw them? Losers, apparently, can't handle being told and shown that they LOST, and need a feel-good prize. A....scrubaward? Fine. I understand that. But...a Profit ?? Even if you lose, you still win? That's Pub stuff and should stay there. Inb4 the next yaddayaddaL337piratevikingpubstar, I wouldn't get paid from a loss either. Learn to punch up instead of insisting on dragging down. Well there is a bit more to it than just those ideas. Numbers and magical things, but not on the forums. Also I apologize if I was condescending before, I'll admit that thread was well...buried. I just assumed you had signed up for the Think tank since you feel so strongly about PC and thus were in the know. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
zDemoncake Horizons' Edge 474	Posted - 2015.04.16 05:10:00 - [82] - Quote Quote: How many, HOW MANY of those 'give aways' stuck it out? How many realized its not worth it? How many just rolled back over and fukking left? How many to THIS DAY fight AGAINST YOU? Horizons' Edge was a recipient of a Cap Aq district, and another from Shidi..Yoshi(Sp?) Before we received our districts we launched 6 clones packs so players that were new to Planetary Conquest could get the feel for it and develop a new mindset for competitive play. We win about half of those matches, including a Re-up. Time passes and we receive our districts. Nyain San attacks us with 360 clones. Naturally, my guys get worried because the bane of their pubstomps was knocking at the door, and being a NEW team to PC, they felt unprepared and worried. Match comes along, they have EVE support, match proceeds, we lose by 2 MCC ticks. We were missing quite a few 'A-team' players, but we toughed it out for 3 matches. We all had fun, and surprisingly morale was raised at the thought of us overcoming them. We're still developing, but fighting other teams that are on our level, while sparring with established PC corps will hopefully get us to the level of being able to put up a good fight against Cap Aq. I don't check the district flips that often, but I do believe a handful of hispanic corporations entered Molden Heath. I believe that some corporations are just lacking in manpower and are waiting to be able to field 16 of their own players in a match. I think it is either that, or people don't want to harden up. Answering your listed questions Yes No No Currently developing our team. SoonTM CEO of Horizons' Edge's mercenary division *My soul, your beats!* Enemy to many; equal to none.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2042	Posted - 2015.04.16 05:11:00 - [83] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Thank You Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: True Adamance wrote: I'm wondering how you all view the CP measure. Would it lead to a more competitive and organic a mercenary economy or a less competitive one. This is the synopsis. "Don't own something, that you can't defend" From my WIP document: Corporation Members need to Finish Daily Missions, earning Command Points for the Corporation. Any Corporation Actions require Command Points, and thus, the activity of a Corporation is limited by the size of the Corporation and activity of its members. Wealth accumulation is through Active sales of Clones, that are generated on Districts. Wealth can also be generated through Tax income from Corp Members. Corporations will also be able to attack Districts using Clone Packs that only cost Command Points, making money by inflicting more losses on the enemy team than they lose themselves, using the new "Keep what you Kill" ISK reward method. Black Market Kredits are created and distributed equally to all Corporation Members on Clone Sales. BMK's can be used to buy Black Market goods, such as unique BPO's and gear. Additionally those who applied to the PC think tank received correspondence from Rattati outlining those same details. Ok, now those are nice ideas BUT clearly there isn't a fully finalized and ready to implement set of parameters there. BMK? So, more LP? More rebranding of the same already existing elements as a guise of "new content"? I'm not buying, but whatever. Long story short, if this is the totality of the info at this time then the assertion that PC payouts should be restructured rigt now is an absolute Farce. Payouts have been redrawn so that later on they can be added to. Why not have everything ready to go, THEN redraw them? Losers, apparently, can't handle being told and shown that they LOST, and need a feel-good prize. A....scrubaward? Fine. I understand that. But...a Profit ?? Even if you lose, you still win? That's Pub stuff and should stay there. Inb4 the next yaddayaddaL337piratevikingpubstar, I wouldn't get paid from a loss either. Learn to punch up instead of insisting on dragging down. I had to honestly read this a few times before I got what you were saying. you bitcch about being paid for being the best. they create a new currency, with new gear and other stuff that will only be accessed by the best of the best and you want nothing of it? G fuckking G el Operator. You Win,. I can't possibly el operate on your level of idiocy. I literally can not understand how people can survive being so inept.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2043	Posted - 2015.04.16 05:19:00 - [84] - Quote zDemoncake wrote: Quote: How many, HOW MANY of those 'give aways' stuck it out? How many realized its not worth it? How many just rolled back over and fukking left? How many to THIS DAY fight AGAINST YOU? Horizons' Edge was a recipient of a Cap Aq district, and another from Shidi..Yoshi(Sp?) Before we received our districts we launched 6 clones packs so players that were new to Planetary Conquest could get the feel for it and develop a new mindset for competitive play. We win about half of those matches, including a Re-up. Time passes and we receive our districts. Nyain San attacks us with 360 clones. Naturally, my guys get worried because the bane of their pubstomps was knocking at the door, and being a NEW team to PC, they felt unprepared and worried. Match comes along, they have EVE support, match proceeds, we lose by 2 MCC ticks. We were missing quite a few 'A-team' players, but we toughed it out for 3 matches. We all had fun, and surprisingly morale was raised at the thought of us overcoming them. We're still developing, but fighting other teams that are on our level, while sparring with established PC corps will hopefully get us to the level of being able to put up a good fight against Cap Aq. I don't check the district flips that often, but I do believe a handful of hispanic corporations entered Molden Heath. I believe that some corporations are just lacking in manpower and are waiting to be able to field 16 of their own players in a match. I think it is either that, or people don't want to harden up. Answering your listed questions Yes No No Currently developing our team. SoonTM I applaud you zDemoncake, ignore the bitterness between el Operator and I, you're going to have a great time in the next few weeks. I literally can not understand how people can survive being so inept.
ReGnYuM Carne Con Papas 3665	Posted - 2015.04.16 05:56:00 - [85] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: 3.No, I do not recall Rattati having posted a PC2.0 document proposal. I am relying on these forums, the official game forums, to have that info but haven't seen it. What has been posted, has been little else than real vague and general concept stuff. Not formal proposals and nothing with a reference to "BMK"s. Here you go [Source] In the future make sure you have all of the information before going on an emotionally driven tirade. Its unbecoming. Pokey do me a favour... Eat me Acting like an expert in a field in which you have almost zero experience and even less credibility just makes you sound like an obnoxious douche. BTW shouldn't you be campaigning for CPM2. I hear you might make the cut this time
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1001	Posted - 2015.04.16 05:57:00 - [86] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Thank You Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: True Adamance wrote: I'm wondering how you all view the CP measure. Would it lead to a more competitive and organic a mercenary economy or a less competitive one. This is the synopsis. "Don't own something, that you can't defend" From my WIP document: Corporation Members need to Finish Daily Missions, earning Command Points for the Corporation. Any Corporation Actions require Command Points, and thus, the activity of a Corporation is limited by the size of the Corporation and activity of its members. Wealth accumulation is through Active sales of Clones, that are generated on Districts. Wealth can also be generated through Tax income from Corp Members. Corporations will also be able to attack Districts using Clone Packs that only cost Command Points, making money by inflicting more losses on the enemy team than they lose themselves, using the new "Keep what you Kill" ISK reward method. Black Market Kredits are created and distributed equally to all Corporation Members on Clone Sales. BMK's can be used to buy Black Market goods, such as unique BPO's and gear. Additionally those who applied to the PC think tank received correspondence from Rattati outlining those same details. Ok, now those are nice ideas BUT clearly there isn't a fully finalized and ready to implement set of parameters there. BMK? So, more LP? More rebranding of the same already existing elements as a guise of "new content"? I'm not buying, but whatever. Long story short, if this is the totality of the info at this time then the assertion that PC payouts should be restructured rigt now is an absolute Farce. Payouts have been redrawn so that later on they can be added to. Why not have everything ready to go, THEN redraw them? Losers, apparently, can't handle being told and shown that they LOST, and need a feel-good prize. A....scrubaward? Fine. I understand that. But...a Profit ?? Even if you lose, you still win? That's Pub stuff and should stay there. Inb4 the next yaddayaddaL337piratevikingpubstar, I wouldn't get paid from a loss either. Learn to punch up instead of insisting on dragging down. I had to honestly read this a few times before I got what you were saying. you bitcch about being paid for being the best. they create a new currency, with new gear and other stuff that will only be accessed by the best of the best and you want nothing of it? G fuckking G el Operator. You Win,. I can't possibly el operate on your level of idiocy. No doubt, bud. GfuckingTheCurrentCurrencyThatCurrentltPaysForAlltheShitThatCurrentlyExistsAsOpposedToHypotheticallyExistsHasBeenPrematurelyReducedArbitrarilyYouFoolG Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1004	Posted - 2015.04.16 06:45:00 - [87] - Quote Silver Strike44 wrote: I just played two PC battles between high level corps. In both battles, a decent amount of clones, all in proto gear as far as I know, were lost and the team I was on won. The first game I earned about 1.1 million ISK and lost 8 suits, I believe. Each of the suits I lost cost me around 190k ISK. That is a net loss of around 400k ISK. In the next battle, I earned around 1 million ISK and lost 5 of those 190k ISK suits. That is a net gain of around 50k ISK. Over the course of two PCs where only proto was used between two high level corps and I wouldnt say I died more than a reasonable amount of times, I lost a few hundred thousand ISK. The corp I played for earned nothing in the way of ISK, just a meaningless district and none of the people on my team gained a significant amount of ISK if they earned ISK at all. Is this not ridiculous? Thinking back to how you performed in those matches and what you accomplished, was a proto suit necessary to do it? Could you have accomplished the same tasks in a cheaper suit? I average about 5 deaths a match. Pub, fw, PC, it doesn't matter. I average those 5 deaths whether I'm wearing apex, adv, or proto. So knowing this, I'll say that the gear I use is irrelevant to my performance. I average 13 kills a match. If I can do it in apex, why use proto?
Silver Strike44 617	Posted - 2015.04.16 07:25:00 - [88] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Silver Strike44 wrote: I just played two PC battles between high level corps. In both battles, a decent amount of clones, all in proto gear as far as I know, were lost and the team I was on won. The first game I earned about 1.1 million ISK and lost 8 suits, I believe. Each of the suits I lost cost me around 190k ISK. That is a net loss of around 400k ISK. In the next battle, I earned around 1 million ISK and lost 5 of those 190k ISK suits. That is a net gain of around 50k ISK. Over the course of two PCs where only proto was used between two high level corps and I wouldnt say I died more than a reasonable amount of times, I lost a few hundred thousand ISK. The corp I played for earned nothing in the way of ISK, just a meaningless district and none of the people on my team gained a significant amount of ISK if they earned ISK at all. Is this not ridiculous? Thinking back to how you performed in those matches and what you accomplished, was a proto suit necessary to do it? Could you have accomplished the same tasks in a cheaper suit? I average about 5 deaths a match. Pub, fw, PC, it doesn't matter. I average those 5 deaths whether I'm wearing apex, adv, or proto. So knowing this, I'll say that the gear I use is irrelevant to my performance. I average 13 kills a match. If I can do it in apex, why use proto? Pubs just arent the same. If you want to do well against good players in good gear (what PC should be), you too must run the best gear and be good. If I had run BPO gear, I would have been smashed by a team of good players in full proto. We probably still would have won, but that is just me in BPO gear, not everyone. Yes, the proto was needed to put up that score against that sort of enemy. My YouTube Channel
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9531	Posted - 2015.04.16 09:43:00 - [89] - Quote Look, there is no justifying the use of BPO's or APEX's in PC. The entire point of both of those were for players to accumulate ISK - citing we didn't have an economy to screw over - and that's the entire reason for them existing now while looking cool. The looking cool bit is being hashed out with SKINs and we now have player trading and asset selling which is, essentially, a rudimentary economy. We have trade forums now and this only strengthens the argument that the economy is now in play. I feel like I'm repeating myself with this (maybe because it wasn't properly tackled the last time I brought it up, for whatever reason). In PC though? They're fundamentally unnecessary. Looking cool? SKINs. Accumulating ISK? You should not be doing this in PC and as Pokey keeps bringing up, profitability isn't in ISK with PC 2.0 (even though he admits that right now it's not in play and the system is derp). I'm -REALLY- having serious doubts as to why BPO's and APEX's should have any role at all in PC other than the inevitable: Weaponized Boredom through lack of good fights, and Cheapskating using an exploited, gamed system of "Keep What You Kill". So the enemy team wants to use cheap stuff... Who cares right? Well, when the only thing holding them back from attacking your district is the clones to actually assault it than what's to stop them from starting a War of Attrition on you and just burning you out of both ISK and patience? Instead of asking "Why would they use BPOs", ask "Why -WOULDN'T- they use BPOs?" They can assault you with riskless/lossless BPO's/APEX's as long as they have clones and if you attack them they'll just use all the ISK they've saved up from kicking your hind quarters to field the best gear. If they look like they're losing? They'll just default back to the BPO, give you a run for your money at no cost to them, and then you have more territory than you can feasible defend and they just repeat the process until they get their districts back - but now with a bank of ISK they generated from kicking you while you're down. Give it time. Once people start realizing that there's no other way to make ISK in PC and PC is fundamentally worthless otherwise until -MAYBE- a tentative June/July release (according to the roadmap Trello) they're just going to default to the easiest option available: BPO's, Attrition, Boredom, and Bull**. Again, I've seen a lot of justification for why a person would -want- to use them but absolutely no justification as to why they should be in PC for any reason other than exploiting a gamed system.** Are you being Angry or Assertive?
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1004	Posted - 2015.04.16 12:07:00 - [90] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Look, there is no justifying the use of BPO's or APEX's in PC. The entire point of both of those were for players to accumulate ISK - citing we didn't have an economy to screw over - and that's the entire reason for them existing now while looking cool. The looking cool bit is being hashed out with SKINs and we now have player trading and asset selling which is, essentially, a rudimentary economy. We have trade forums now and this only strengthens the argument that the economy is now in play. I feel like I'm repeating myself with this (maybe because it wasn't properly tackled the last time I brought it up, for whatever reason). In PC though? They're fundamentally unnecessary. Looking cool? SKINs. Accumulating ISK? You should not be doing this in PC and as Pokey keeps bringing up, profitability isn't in ISK with PC 2.0 (even though he admits that right now it's not in play and the system is derp). I'm -REALLY- having serious doubts as to why BPO's and APEX's should have any role at all in PC other than the inevitable: Weaponized Boredom through lack of good fights, and Cheapskating using an exploited, gamed system of "Keep What You Kill". So the enemy team wants to use cheap stuff... Who cares right? Well, when the only thing holding them back from attacking your district is the clones to actually assault it than what's to stop them from starting a War of Attrition on you and just burning you out of both ISK and patience? Instead of asking "Why would they use BPOs", ask "Why -WOULDN'T- they use BPOs?" They can assault you with riskless/lossless BPO's/APEX's as long as they have clones and if you attack them they'll just use all the ISK they've saved up from kicking your hind quarters to field the best gear. If they look like they're losing? They'll just default back to the BPO, give you a run for your money at no cost to them, and then you have more territory than you can feasible defend and they just repeat the process until they get their districts back - but now with a bank of ISK they generated from kicking you while you're down. Give it time. Once people start realizing that there's no other way to make ISK in PC and PC is fundamentally worthless otherwise until -MAYBE- a tentative June/July release (according to the roadmap Trello) they're just going to default to the easiest option available: BPO's, Attrition, Boredom, and Bull**. Again, I've seen a lot of justification for why a person would -want- to use them but absolutely no justification as to why they should be in PC for any reason other than exploiting a gamed system.** BPO's need to be in PC because they serve as entry level for new corps to try things out. BPO's combined with warbages producing clones will allow active corps with Command Points, a point of entry into PC. BPO's in PC is no different than using Rookie Ships in sov warfare in eve.

Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 57	Posted - 2015.04.16 15:20:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: Dear players, Last night we changed PC reward mechanics from Biomass to GÇ£Keep what you KillGÇ¥, on a team basis. CCP has been aware of an exploit involving alt-farming ISK through the Biomass No-Show method for some time now until we could gauge the situation. After lengthy discussions with the majority of District holders, we have decided to switch the reward mechanics to a new method, which has been previously discussed in the Features and Ideas Forums. This means that Team A will earn Team BGÇÖs ISK losses, split equally among Team A members, and vice versa. This means that District battles are no longer GÇ£winner takes allGÇ¥, making it viable to stick it out, switching to more cost effective gear and causing enough losses on the enemy to break even. As the exploit was the only viable way of creating wealth in PC, we hope this change will influence a bigger shakeup in PC tactics. We may reduce the cost of Clone Packs to initiate a Raiding aspect, where Corporations decide to try to make money by minimizing their losses and inflicting more than their own cost plus the Clone Pack. We are also preparing changes to Planetary Conquest, introducing Command Points and Earned District Income (not passive) which allows us to say GÇ£while Districts are not economically valuable now, they will beGÇ¥. This has also been extensively discussed in the forums. Some corporations may decide to stop investing in PC, some will change their tactics, and we predict that some will continue exactly as they have been, and collect as many districts as possible before the changes. A change is coming, and we hope it will be worth it. I just wished all the changes would be made all at once. However, great job looking into this :) CEO / Art.of.Death
Dust User PIanet Express Smart Deploy 1873	Posted - 2015.04.16 16:44:00 - [92] - Quote With the payouts being so low is this CCP's way of telling us they want less proto in PC matches?
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 371	Posted - 2015.04.16 17:36:00 - [93] - Quote Dust User wrote: With the payouts being so low is this CCP's way of telling us they want less proto in PC matches? My guess is that it's CCP's way of telling us they want less proto in pubs... The ISK factories and exploits are going bye-bye, and with lower payouts in PC's the most viable way of making money is grinding it in pubs. Just a supposition...maybe the rich have endless ISK but somehow I think over time it will dry out if mercs keep spamming proto in pubs AND fielding it as a necessity in PCs. Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8104	Posted - 2015.04.16 17:39:00 - [94] - Quote This thread has achieved BREAKIN STUFF'S COMEDY GOLD SEAL OF APPROVAL AV
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 15966	Posted - 2015.04.16 17:47:00 - [95] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: This thread has achieved BREAKIN STUFF'S COMEDY GOLD SEAL OF APPROVAL Congratulations to the OP! Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1368	Posted - 2015.04.16 18:35:00 - [96] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: This thread has achieved BREAKIN STUFF'S COMEDY GOLD SEAL OF APPROVAL You don't strike me as much of a comedian. Leave that to the funny people, stick with your data! Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1368	Posted - 2015.04.16 18:43:00 - [97] - Quote Bremen van Equis wrote: Dust User wrote: With the payouts being so low is this CCP's way of telling us they want less proto in PC matches? My guess is that it's CCP's way of telling us they want less proto in pubs... The ISK factories and exploits are going bye-bye, and with lower payouts in PC's the most viable way of making money is grinding it in pubs. Just a supposition...maybe the rich have endless ISK but somehow I think over time it will dry out if mercs keep spamming proto in pubs AND fielding it as a necessity in PCs. What's wrong with proto in Pubs. Sure before when they faced people without it, but with new matchmaking you usually go against people wearing it or can wear it. There shouldn't be ANY complaints over proto in Pubs. I spent plenty of time obtaining that, and should be encouraged to use it against others that have it. Be it PUBS or PC. I believe that was a major point they were pointing to when they announced legion. And besides, there are plenty out there who say that proto gear < skill. So you should probably get gud (according to proponents that advocate the idea gear has a lesser impact on engagements over skill. Ignore the fact that those who have it (proto gear) are probably pretty skilled to start with at that point in their merc life.). I myself don't agree with that sentiment (skill > gear) when the gear DOES make a noticeable impact, proven by those that hate being proto stomped yet can't afford to run it as consistently as others. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1368	Posted - 2015.04.16 18:46:00 - [98] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Look, there is no justifying the use of BPO's or APEX's in PC. The entire point of both of those were for players to accumulate ISK - citing we didn't have an economy to screw over - and that's the entire reason for them existing now while looking cool. The looking cool bit is being hashed out with SKINs and we now have player trading and asset selling which is, essentially, a rudimentary economy. We have trade forums now and this only strengthens the argument that the economy is now in play. I feel like I'm repeating myself with this (maybe because it wasn't properly tackled the last time I brought it up, for whatever reason). In PC though? They're fundamentally unnecessary. Looking cool? SKINs. Accumulating ISK? You should not be doing this in PC and as Pokey keeps bringing up, profitability isn't in ISK with PC 2.0 (even though he admits that right now it's not in play and the system is derp). I'm -REALLY- having serious doubts as to why BPO's and APEX's should have any role at all in PC other than the inevitable: Weaponized Boredom through lack of good fights, and Cheapskating using an exploited, gamed system of "Keep What You Kill". So the enemy team wants to use cheap stuff... Who cares right? Well, when the only thing holding them back from attacking your district is the clones to actually assault it than what's to stop them from starting a War of Attrition on you and just burning you out of both ISK and patience? Instead of asking "Why would they use BPOs", ask "Why -WOULDN'T- they use BPOs?" They can assault you with riskless/lossless BPO's/APEX's as long as they have clones and if you attack them they'll just use all the ISK they've saved up from kicking your hind quarters to field the best gear. If they look like they're losing? They'll just default back to the BPO, give you a run for your money at no cost to them, and then you have more territory than you can feasible defend and they just repeat the process until they get their districts back - but now with a bank of ISK they generated from kicking you while you're down. Give it time. Once people start realizing that there's no other way to make ISK in PC and PC is fundamentally worthless otherwise until -MAYBE- a tentative June/July release (according to the roadmap Trello) they're just going to default to the easiest option available: BPO's, Attrition, Boredom, and Bull**. Again, I've seen a lot of justification for why a person would -want- to use them but absolutely no justification as to why they should be in PC for any reason other than exploiting a gamed system.** BPO's need to be in PC because they serve as entry level for new corps to try things out. BPO's combined with warbages producing clones will allow active corps with Command Points, a point of entry into PC. BPO's in PC is no different than using Rookie Ships in sov warfare in eve. Do rookie ships last long outside of high sec? Sure, bring your BPO and get stomped. You will NEVER gain a foothold in PC with that logic. Therefore you will never reap any benefits from it aside from a little extra isk in you pocket. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 372	Posted - 2015.04.16 19:11:00 - [99] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Bremen van Equis wrote: Dust User wrote: With the payouts being so low is this CCP's way of telling us they want less proto in PC matches? My guess is that it's CCP's way of telling us they want less proto in pubs... The ISK factories and exploits are going bye-bye, and with lower payouts in PC's the most viable way of making money is grinding it in pubs. Just a supposition...maybe the rich have endless ISK but somehow I think over time it will dry out if mercs keep spamming proto in pubs AND fielding it as a necessity in PCs. What's wrong with proto in Pubs. Sure before when they faced people without it, but with new matchmaking you usually go against people wearing it or can wear it. There shouldn't be ANY complaints over proto in Pubs. I spent plenty of time obtaining that, and should be encouraged to use it against others that have it. Be it PUBS or PC. I believe that was a major point they were pointing to when they announced legion. And besides, there are plenty out there who say that proto gear < skill. So you should probably get gud (according to proponents that advocate the idea gear has a lesser impact on engagements over skill. Ignore the fact that those who have it (proto gear) are probably pretty skilled to start with at that point in their merc life.). I myself don't agree with that sentiment (skill > gear) when the gear DOES make a noticeable impact, proven by those that hate being proto stomped yet can't afford to run it as consistently as others. Easy, cowboy. Who said proto shouldn't be used in pubs? Lern to reed gudder. I simply think with less ISK floating around, there will be less proto SPAMMING in pubs. As for pubstomping? When the big corps are lolScrubLording at my ground spawn, I spawn MCC in a cloaked myofib suit and punch a few in the back of the head. I lose the suit but I can afford it b/c I don't constantly run it. It's great fun! Maybe I punched you once and you're angry? Let's talk about it. Uz yor werds. Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1371	Posted - 2015.04.16 20:32:00 - [100] - Quote Bremen van Equis wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Bremen van Equis wrote: Dust User wrote: With the payouts being so low is this CCP's way of telling us they want less proto in PC matches? My guess is that it's CCP's way of telling us they want less proto in pubs... The ISK factories and exploits are going bye-bye, and with lower payouts in PC's the most viable way of making money is grinding it in pubs. Just a supposition...maybe the rich have endless ISK but somehow I think over time it will dry out if mercs keep spamming proto in pubs AND fielding it as a necessity in PCs. What's wrong with proto in Pubs. Sure before when they faced people without it, but with new matchmaking you usually go against people wearing it or can wear it. There shouldn't be ANY complaints over proto in Pubs. I spent plenty of time obtaining that, and should be encouraged to use it against others that have it. Be it PUBS or PC. I believe that was a major point they were pointing to when they announced legion. And besides, there are plenty out there who say that proto gear < skill. So you should probably get gud (according to proponents that advocate the idea gear has a lesser impact on engagements over skill. Ignore the fact that those who have it (proto gear) are probably pretty skilled to start with at that point in their merc life.). I myself don't agree with that sentiment (skill > gear) when the gear DOES make a noticeable impact, proven by those that hate being proto stomped yet can't afford to run it as consistently as others. Easy, cowboy. Who said proto shouldn't be used in pubs? Lern to reed gudder. I simply think with less ISK floating around, there will be less proto SPAMMING in pubs. As for pubstomping? When the big corps are lolScrubLording at my ground spawn, I spawn MCC in a cloaked myofib suit and punch a few in the back of the head. I lose the suit but I can afford it b/c I don't constantly run it. It's great fun! Maybe I punched you once and you're angry? Let's talk about it. Uz yor werds. I think you misunderstood me, but no matter. But tell me this, because you CHOOSE not to use proto gear, you feel it's right that if others do choose to use it, consistently, that they should somehow be punished. I honestly don't understand this "Proto stomp mentality" with matchmaking in place. They pull proto, and you want to compete on their level, then pull proto. Nuff said. As far as your idea of ISK, I know a great deal of people that have a boatload of isk, who obtained by grinding pubs with cheap/free fits. This idea floating around that the PC people are rich because they gamed the system is silly. A grand majority of them gained that legit. You honestly can't pretend like everyone that runs proto ever gained it through ill gotten means. And I do suggest you reread what I said. You assumed I was bashing you, yet I was engaging in civil discourse. My main point, you should be encouraged to run proto. It's not something reserved for special occasions. I worked hard to get that gear, and I and you should be encouraged to use it all the time. And if you think that the PC change is going to stop the isk flow, just wait until you see trading. I'll be proto stomping all day everyday my friend, for I have MUCH to sell. And just wait until they open up the trade of aur things like boosters and keys. The isk will flow like a rushing river my friend. Tanks - Balancing Turrets

Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 372	Posted - 2015.04.16 20:59:00 - [101] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: I think you misunderstood me, but no matter. But tell me this, because you CHOOSE not to use proto gear, you feel it's right that if others do choose to use it, consistently, that they should somehow be punished. I honestly don't understand this "Proto stomp mentality" with matchmaking in place. They pull proto, and you want to compete on their level, then pull proto. Nuff said. As far as your idea of ISK, I know a great deal of people that have a boatload of isk, who obtained by grinding pubs with cheap/free fits. This idea floating around that the PC people are rich because they gamed the system is silly. A grand majority of them gained that legit. You honestly can't pretend like everyone that runs proto ever gained it through ill gotten means. And I do suggest you reread what I said. You assumed I was bashing you, yet I was engaging in civil discourse. My main point, you should be encouraged to run proto. It's not something reserved for special occasions. I worked hard to get that gear, and I and you should be encouraged to use it all the time. And if you think that the PC change is going to stop the isk flow, just wait until you see trading. I'll be proto stomping all day everyday my friend, for I have MUCH to sell. And just wait until they open up the trade of aur things like boosters and keys. The isk will flow like a rushing river my friend. Dear Cowboy, Your "get gud" (in bold, I might add) isn't civil discourse, so get off your high horse (yes, pun on the cowboy thing). Maybe we're just talking past each other because you're butthurt by the changes and you think I'm happy they are "punishing" you with the new mechanics. I made my fortune in pubs as well. It's a small fortune...not nine figures yet, but plenty to keep me entertained and able to run proto as needed. I'm not talking about anyone being punished, guy. I'm just saying...again...that I THINK with less ISK floating around from the old PC mechanics, we will see less proto spamming in pubs. If you feel the new mechanics of PC is punishing you then that is your opinion. I'm just positing a thought about what one of the results might be. Do I think it's a good thing that there may be less proto spamming in pubs? Yes. Absolutely. It will lead to better battles with actual escalation. I enjoy those fights the most. o7 Cowboy! Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1375	Posted - 2015.04.16 21:52:00 - [102] - Quote Bremen van Equis wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: I think you misunderstood me, but no matter. But tell me this, because you CHOOSE not to use proto gear, you feel it's right that if others do choose to use it, consistently, that they should somehow be punished. I honestly don't understand this "Proto stomp mentality" with matchmaking in place. They pull proto, and you want to compete on their level, then pull proto. Nuff said. As far as your idea of ISK, I know a great deal of people that have a boatload of isk, who obtained by grinding pubs with cheap/free fits. This idea floating around that the PC people are rich because they gamed the system is silly. A grand majority of them gained that legit. You honestly can't pretend like everyone that runs proto ever gained it through ill gotten means. And I do suggest you reread what I said. You assumed I was bashing you, yet I was engaging in civil discourse. My main point, you should be encouraged to run proto. It's not something reserved for special occasions. I worked hard to get that gear, and I and you should be encouraged to use it all the time. And if you think that the PC change is going to stop the isk flow, just wait until you see trading. I'll be proto stomping all day everyday my friend, for I have MUCH to sell. And just wait until they open up the trade of aur things like boosters and keys. The isk will flow like a rushing river my friend. Dear Cowboy, Your "get gud" (in bold, I might add) isn't civil discourse, so get off your high horse (yes, pun on the cowboy thing). Maybe we're just talking past each other because you're butthurt by the changes and you think I'm happy they are "punishing" you with the new mechanics. I made my fortune in pubs as well. It's a small fortune...not nine figures yet, but plenty to keep me entertained and able to run proto as needed. I'm not talking about anyone being punished, guy. I'm just saying...again...that I THINK with less ISK floating around from the old PC mechanics, we will see less proto spamming in pubs. If you feel the new mechanics of PC is punishing you then that is your opinion. I'm just positing a thought about what one of the results might be. Do I think it's a good thing that there may be less proto spamming in pubs? Yes. Absolutely. It will lead to better battles with actual escalation. I enjoy those fights the most. o7 Cowboy! Sigh Please pay special attention the what I put in parentheses. I was making a reference to others that propagate the idea that skill is greater than gear. And again, how do you imagine trading is going to affect the isk eh?? If anything you will see far more proto floating around. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Aeon Amadi Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 9533	Posted - 2015.04.16 22:27:00 - [103] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Look, there is no justifying the use of BPO's or APEX's in PC. The entire point of both of those were for players to accumulate ISK - citing we didn't have an economy to screw over - and that's the entire reason for them existing now while looking cool. The looking cool bit is being hashed out with SKINs and we now have player trading and asset selling which is, essentially, a rudimentary economy. We have trade forums now and this only strengthens the argument that the economy is now in play. I feel like I'm repeating myself with this (maybe because it wasn't properly tackled the last time I brought it up, for whatever reason). In PC though? They're fundamentally unnecessary. Looking cool? SKINs. Accumulating ISK? You should not be doing this in PC and as Pokey keeps bringing up, profitability isn't in ISK with PC 2.0 (even though he admits that right now it's not in play and the system is derp). I'm -REALLY- having serious doubts as to why BPO's and APEX's should have any role at all in PC other than the inevitable: Weaponized Boredom through lack of good fights, and Cheapskating using an exploited, gamed system of "Keep What You Kill". So the enemy team wants to use cheap stuff... Who cares right? Well, when the only thing holding them back from attacking your district is the clones to actually assault it than what's to stop them from starting a War of Attrition on you and just burning you out of both ISK and patience? Instead of asking "Why would they use BPOs", ask "Why -WOULDN'T- they use BPOs?" They can assault you with riskless/lossless BPO's/APEX's as long as they have clones and if you attack them they'll just use all the ISK they've saved up from kicking your hind quarters to field the best gear. If they look like they're losing? They'll just default back to the BPO, give you a run for your money at no cost to them, and then you have more territory than you can feasible defend and they just repeat the process until they get their districts back - but now with a bank of ISK they generated from kicking you while you're down. Give it time. Once people start realizing that there's no other way to make ISK in PC and PC is fundamentally worthless otherwise until -MAYBE- a tentative June/July release (according to the roadmap Trello) they're just going to default to the easiest option available: BPO's, Attrition, Boredom, and Bull**. Again, I've seen a lot of justification for why a person would -want- to use them but absolutely no justification as to why they should be in PC for any reason other than exploiting a gamed system.** BPO's need to be in PC because they serve as entry level for new corps to try things out. BPO's combined with warbages producing clones will allow active corps with Command Points, a point of entry into PC. BPO's in PC is no different than using Rookie Ships in sov warfare in eve. Go find me a kill-mail where a rookie ship was ever used in Sov Warfare in Eve Online, let alone a kill-mail where it actually worked with any degree of success. BPO's are still dramatically effective at killing Prototype suits in the right conditions - the same CANNOT be said about Rookie ships against hardly anything in Eve Online. You can't just waltz up and start killing Battleships, Command Ships, and Carriers with a Rookie Ship. This logic is flawed because you don't understand Eve Online and if you ever played it you'd realize how flawed this argument truly is. A Rookie Ship has -MAYBE- 500-to-750 EHP. Going up against even an Assault Frigate with perhaps 10,000 EHP with 300+ DPS would be next to suicide and that's a very baseline ship. We're not talking about things that are -actually- used in Sov Warfare (which you'd know if you played instead of parroting arguments) which have EHP in the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS if not MILLIONS. Quit using the 'rookie ship' in Eve Online as an argument. They are not even close to similar and your only showing your ignorance when you talk about things you have no idea about. And as far "entry level for new corps to try things out" - YOU SHOULD NOT BE DOING THIS IF YOU'RE TRYING TO GET INTO PC. EDIT: Even still, you should be paying for your gear in either case, just out of fairness for a competitive game mode where there are actual stakes. BPO's shouldn't even exist the way they are but if they're going to, they need to be banned from PC. Are you being Angry or Assertive?
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 784	Posted - 2015.04.16 23:33:00 - [104] - Quote For all you naysayers -- read Cross' posts on page 1. Because, you know, he is right...
nickmunson Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 90	Posted - 2015.04.17 00:15:00 - [105] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: Dear players, Last night we changed PC reward mechanics from Biomass to GÇ£Keep what you KillGÇ¥, on a team basis. CCP has been aware of an exploit involving alt-farming ISK through the Biomass No-Show method for some time now until we could gauge the situation. After lengthy discussions with the majority of District holders, we have decided to switch the reward mechanics to a new method, which has been previously discussed in the Features and Ideas Forums. This means that Team A will earn Team BGÇÖs ISK losses, split equally among Team A members, and vice versa. This means that District battles are no longer GÇ£winner takes allGÇ¥, making it viable to stick it out, switching to more cost effective gear and causing enough losses on the enemy to break even. As the exploit was the only viable way of creating wealth in PC, we hope this change will influence a bigger shakeup in PC tactics. We may reduce the cost of Clone Packs to initiate a Raiding aspect, where Corporations decide to try to make money by minimizing their losses and inflicting more than their own cost plus the Clone Pack. We are also preparing changes to Planetary Conquest, introducing Command Points and Earned District Income (not passive) which allows us to say GÇ£while Districts are not economically valuable now, they will beGÇ¥. This has also been extensively discussed in the forums. Some corporations may decide to stop investing in PC, some will change their tactics, and we predict that some will continue exactly as they have been, and collect as many districts as possible before the changes. A change is coming, and we hope it will be worth it. can you open it up to more regions besides molden heathe cause after living there MOLDEN HEATHE is extremely isolated and not relevant to the eve community, as well as one alliance and a coalition has managed to push out ALL dust alliances and corps, and pretty much farm the moons and do pirate things . you light up a district the spy network goes up and you will probably get killed. so your whole eve bonus is completely worthless since there is no eve alliance living there or capable of contending with who live there. love me or hate me. you kill me i hunt you.
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 373	Posted - 2015.04.17 02:57:00 - [106] - Quote I'd sooner get munsoned out here in the middle of nowhere than lose face in front of my friends and family. Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
Haerr Negative-Feedback 2755	Posted - 2015.04.17 10:46:00 - [107] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: [...]We may reduce the cost of Clone Packs to initiate a Raiding aspect.[...] Please do! Haerr's Handel GÇö Marketplace
Dust User PIanet Express Smart Deploy 1891	Posted - 2015.04.17 17:00:00 - [108] - Quote Bremen van Equis wrote: I'd sooner get munsoned out here in the middle of nowhere than lose face in front of my friends and family. I think this is the part where you praise the pipes.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1005	Posted - 2015.04.17 19:36:00 - [109] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Thank You Ok, now those are nice ideas BUT clearly there isn't a fully finalized and ready to implement set of parameters there. BMK? So, more LP? More rebranding of the same already existing elements as a guise of "new content"? I'm not buying, but whatever. Long story short, if this is the totality of the info at this time then the assertion that PC payouts should be restructured rigt now is an absolute Farce. Payouts have been redrawn so that later on they can be added to. Why not have everything ready to go, THEN redraw them? Losers, apparently, can't handle being told and shown that they LOST, and need a feel-good prize. A....scrubaward? Fine. I understand that. But...a Profit ?? Even if you lose, you still win? That's Pub stuff and should stay there. Inb4 the next yaddayaddaL337piratevikingpubstar, I wouldn't get paid from a loss either. Learn to punch up instead of insisting on dragging down. Well there is a bit more to it than just those ideas. Numbers and magical things, but not on the forums. Also I apologize if I was condescending before, I'll admit that thread was well...buried. I just assumed you had signed up for the Think tank since you feel so strongly about PC and thus were in the know. You and I have communicated a couple times before in here on a couple different things, No Worries on your being condescending. I saw the Think Tank thread and commented there as well as the original Feedback thread. No, I did not join the skype group, tho at least one person I know did. Regardless, that ideas were drafted and hatched by a select minority of a minority of playerbase isn't neccessarily bad. What's bad is that what was drafted up was put into place without any further vetting from the rest of us, the rest of that minority playerbase, in here AND what was drafted was implemented only partially wihout full publcation of the rest of whatever is supposed to go on with the implementation announcement. Instead its a case of drafed and implement without the public vetting process where the rest of us could look and say, before we're made to carry the burden, "Hey, thats cool but this is bad because..." and maybe the whole turn on the game to find the world upside-down could be avoided. PR Fundamentals that largely were solved a looong time ago, supposedly. Its not on you Pokey, unless you're doing the mail as well as the math these days. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1006	Posted - 2015.04.17 20:37:00 - [110] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Thank You Ok, now those are nice ideas BUT clearly there isn't a fully finalized and ready to implement set of parameters there. BMK? So, more LP? More rebranding of the same already existing elements as a guise of "new content"? I'm not buying, but whatever. Long story short, if this is the totality of the info at this time then the assertion that PC payouts should be restructured rigt now is an absolute Farce. Payouts have been redrawn so that later on they can be added to. Why not have everything ready to go, THEN redraw them? Losers, apparently, can't handle being told and shown that they LOST, and need a feel-good prize. A....scrubaward? Fine. I understand that. But...a Profit ?? Even if you lose, you still win? That's Pub stuff and should stay there. Inb4 the next yaddayaddaL337piratevikingpubstar, I wouldn't get paid from a loss either. Learn to punch up instead of insisting on dragging down. Well there is a bit more to it than just those ideas. Numbers and magical things, but not on the forums. Also I apologize if I was condescending before, I'll admit that thread was well...buried. I just assumed you had signed up for the Think tank since you feel so strongly about PC and thus were in the know. You and I have communicated a couple times before in here on a couple different things, No Worries on your being condescending. I saw the Think Tank thread and commented there as well as the original Feedback thread. No, I did not join the skype group, tho at least one person I know did. Regardless, that ideas were drafted and hatched by a select minority of a minority of playerbase isn't neccessarily bad. What's bad is that what was drafted up was put into place without any further vetting from the rest of us, the rest of that minority playerbase, in here AND what was drafted was implemented only partially wihout full publcation of the rest of whatever is supposed to go on with the implementation announcement. Instead its a case of drafed and implement without the public vetting process where the rest of us could look and say, before we're made to carry the burden, "Hey, thats cool but this is bad because..." and maybe the whole turn on the game to find the world upside-down could be avoided. PR Fundamentals that largely were solved a looong time ago, supposedly. Its not on you Pokey, unless you're doing the mail as well as the math these days. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1006	Posted - 2015.04.17 22:20:00 - [111] - Quote Dust User wrote: With the payouts being so low is this CCP's way of telling us they want less proto in PC matches? I see it more as the thinnest veil over a push to force bpo purchasing yet. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1008	Posted - 2015.04.18 00:04:00 - [112] - Quote Longer post delays than what I'd prefer, I try to forum while at work I can get paid for doing it. It gets busy, RL comes first. Anyways, I owe an apology also for my... vitriol... in describing loss rewards as scrubawards. Plenty of damn good players lose sometimes, myself included. Sometimes, we lose hard on both the match and the isk. **** happens in combat and "scrub" is a lose term that often has little to do with it. So, from a more relaxed frame of mind, issues with the PC Payout changes are as follows, one far worse than the other: 1. Win Pay sucks now (the lesser issue of the two). By previously recorded accounts PC wins now are paying, after losses, Profit Margins right about or slightly above Pub margins. This is bad. For the work, the risk and the effort involved to win ISK payout must be significantly higher than whats generated from goofing off in Pubs. Otherwise, there's very little incentive for individual mercs to dig down and fight tough battles against tough opponents, and barely incentive to fight easy battles since the overall profits are identical to pubs. Pubs also having the income generation advantage of loading and queuing significantly faster with waaaay less LAG. Same pay for less work and a better experience? Where will people go, I wonder, hmm.....? 2. PC Match Loss can now be Profitable (the more serious issue). Prior to changes, losses didn't pay. At all. A winner take all kind of thing. Obviously, for the greater playerbase since its a part of whats been done, this doesn't work as well as it could. Instead of players taking hard knocks and learning hard lessons and improvingthey quit and cry. I get it. The game is tough sometimes and easily construed as overly punishing relative to other games. PC loss pay ties rigt into that because, OMG, there was a Loss that wasn't rewarded somehow. So, now there's pay on PC Losses. Fine. But Profits ? Is that really whats appropriate here? In this game, in this game universe and at this particular game level?? I don't share the opinion that BPOs should be banned from PC or removed from the game all together however that they are FREE suits, whose use means 0 risk, then their use should NOT be rewarded. Just like a LOSS in Planetary Conquest should not be PROFITABLE . Should there be some...pay...for losing? Sure, fine. But not Profit. Its a LOSS. Allowing Profits makes it a WIN because all of this is about dem iskies! Whether they're generated from salvage or translated as LP or BMKs or CPs its all about buying stuff and doing stuff and that all comes down to isk! And in this universe, 0-isk risked is supposed to equal 0-isk rewarded! Now, is there a solution that allows for the New Vision to occur and allows the existing Fundamental Values of New Eden to coexist? I'm sure there is, we just need to generate one. I propose that any kill from a BPO in PC not be paid to the merc in the BPO. Simple as that. The coding is obviously rallying who kills what so a little mod to that which basically "if" the kill is from a BPO suit "then" that tally for rhat kill "equals" ZERO. Run them BPOs and save a buck, cool. But you're not going to make a buck. flame it up trolls! I have a case of beer, a bag o mallows and a bottle of 151 ready! Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2078	Posted - 2015.04.18 00:16:00 - [113] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Longer post delays than what I'd prefer, I try to forum while at work I can get paid for doing it. It gets busy, RL comes first. Anyways, I owe an apology also for my... vitriol... in describing loss rewards as scrubawards. Plenty of damn good players lose sometimes, myself included. Sometimes, we lose hard on both the match and the isk. **** happens in combat and "scrub" is a lose term that often has little to do with it. So, from a more relaxed frame of mind, issues with the PC Payout changes are as follows, one far worse than the other: 1. Win Pay sucks now (the lesser issue of the two). By previously recorded accounts PC wins now are paying, after losses, Profit Margins right about or slightly above Pub margins. This is bad. For the work, the risk and the effort involved to win ISK payout must be significantly higher than whats generated from goofing off in Pubs. Otherwise, there's very little incentive for individual mercs to dig down and fight tough battles against tough opponents, and barely incentive to fight easy battles since the overall profits are identical to pubs. Pubs also having the income generation advantage of loading and queuing significantly faster with waaaay less LAG. Same pay for less work and a better experience? Where will people go, I wonder, hmm.....? 2. PC Match Loss can now be Profitable (the more serious issue). Prior to changes, losses didn't pay. At all. A winner take all kind of thing. Obviously, for the greater playerbase since its a part of whats been done, this doesn't work as well as it could. Instead of players taking hard knocks and learning hard lessons and improvingthey quit and cry. I get it. The game is tough sometimes and easily construed as overly punishing relative to other games. PC loss pay ties rigt into that because, OMG, there was a Loss that wasn't rewarded somehow. So, now there's pay on PC Losses. Fine. But Profits ? Is that really whats appropriate here? In this game, in this game universe and at this particular game level?? I don't share the opinion that BPOs should be banned from PC or removed from the game all together however that they are FREE suits, whose use means 0 risk, then their use should NOT be rewarded. Just like a LOSS in Planetary Conquest should not be PROFITABLE . Should there be some...pay...for losing? Sure, fine. But not Profit. Its a LOSS. Allowing Profits makes it a WIN because all of this is about dem iskies! Whether they're generated from salvage or translated as LP or BMKs or CPs its all about buying stuff and doing stuff and that all comes down to isk! And in this universe, 0-isk risked is supposed to equal 0-isk rewarded! Now, is there a solution that allows for the New Vision to occur and allows the existing Fundamental Values of New Eden to coexist? I'm sure there is, we just need to generate one. I propose that any kill from a BPO in PC not be paid to the merc in the BPO. Simple as that. The coding is obviously rallying who kills what so a little mod to that which basically "if" the kill is from a BPO suit "then" that tally for rhat kill "equals" ZERO. Run them BPOs and save a buck, cool. But you're not going to make a buck. flame it up trolls! I have a case of beer, a bag o mallows and a bottle of 151 ready! I like this case you've made, and i actuality don't disagree with it. There should be no 0risk, +reward system, which the drastic changes to CURRENT PC payiuts has resulted in. I like it favors the little guy, but i do entirely understand that its kills the will of the current established guys. We have to remember this is a stop-gap measure to end a trio of exploits as ratatti said. Id say, im not going to wager, but basic tinfoil hattery puts PC redux 2 to 6 weeks out. Then the giant new revamp should make this current isk fiasco, cause you are right as yuve mentioned before its a communications/PR style fiasco, a thing of the past. Is it possible to let it run the course for a week and see what happens? District attacks seem to be climbing throughout the day even. i apologize for my continued escalating sperging yesterday, i was mad that you were mad that things were happening. I have cows that show more intelligence than some of you.
hold that Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 765	Posted - 2015.04.19 11:05:00 - [114] - Quote hay ccp, please release pc activity numbers since the update
Night 5talker 514 Dead Man's Game RUST415 367	Posted - 2015.04.19 15:26:00 - [115] - Quote Hi Frame, I know this almost certainly isn't the case but what if this flowed over into EVE, so pilots giving orbitals would get ISK rewards for the value of what is destroyed at the end of the battle? This would strengthen the link and encourage EVE players to get involved a bit more ^^ Gaming Freek DUST 514 YouTube Channel
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2683	Posted - 2015.04.20 13:16:00 - [116] - Quote Night 5talker 514 wrote: Hi Frame, I know this almost certainly isn't the case but what if this flowed over into EVE, so pilots giving orbitals would get ISK rewards for the value of what is destroyed at the end of the battle? This would strengthen the link and encourage EVE players to get involved a bit more ^^ Like this a lot. Even if the ISK value doesn't amount to much for a particular strike, the symbolism speaks volumes. PSN: RationalSpark
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3385	Posted - 2015.04.20 18:15:00 - [117] - Quote Honestly, how many people actually even give a flying duck about lagfest PC? 50 people? 100 people? I might have to try it again but my overall experience with PC over the years has left me incredibly salty about the whole experience. Too much lag, too low frame rates and apart from literally about 1 or 2 games out of say 15 (that I have been in) the vast majority of games have been unplayable and un-enjoyable experiences - purely from a performance aspect. The idea of PC is great mind you, I just wish it actually worked. Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? SCV Ready!
WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 78	Posted - 2015.04.20 22:46:00 - [118] - Quote I don't know what all this crap about no bpo / yes bpo in pc .. or pubs .. what ever.. u got it - use it .. wtf is the point in skilling into anything if u " can or cant use it" when ever the hell u want? I have all 4 heavy suits proto, all 4 commandos proto, amarr & gal assault & logis proto, and gal scout proto too I have min faction hev and logi bpo, and im a bit short on a gal faction bpo ( don't know which I want yet ) I have 73.5 mill sp .. n been here since closed beta .. u think I don't run proto just about every time? are u crazy!? its a must .. why the f#ck else would I save sp to get it, if not to use it .. cmon already .. what ever u have earned or bought .. u should be able to use it anywhere u want.. they already made ambush vehicle free... now u want pc bpo free .. get a life .. for real .. u got it .. use it .. period ... stop all the crying & get a girl friend Gÿ£GÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿP WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER ... THE GOD HEAVY Gÿ£GÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿP
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 2957	Posted - 2015.04.21 16:54:00 - [119] - Quote I just read something tin the Warlords 1.1 Patch Notes, and I noticed something odd... CCP wrote: Team A recovers Team B's losses, split equally among team A's members Does this mean that WP no longer affects PC payouts? If so, that sucks!!! Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3 Day 4/30 exclusively Minja
Dust User PIanet Express Smart Deploy 1909	Posted - 2015.04.21 20:02:00 - [120] - Quote Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: I just read something tin the Warlords 1.1 Patch Notes, and I noticed something odd... CCP wrote: Team A recovers Team B's losses, split equally among team A's members Does this mean that WP no longer affects PC payouts? If so, that sucks!!! You must be new.


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 20803	Posted - 2015.04.22 10:08:00 - [121] - Quote Dear players, we have been contacted by a large majority of key players in PC. I would like to extend the invitation for a few days more, and calling out specifically large District Holders that have not been in touch. As before, you absolutely don't have to be a current PC player today, only have interest in making it better. I would also specifically request that players in the Latin American community be in contact as they are as a whole a large holder, but for the most part multiple corporations holding one or two districts. We will be rolling out a questionnaire and sharing more information about PC 2.0 and its mechanics. In no specific order, corps with more than one district that have NOT been in contact. Ahrendee Inc Planet Express KAPPA.514 THE LAST H0PE GALAXY T-SOLDIERS The Naughty Ninjas Rebelion TLC X-TREME STARS D3ATH CARD KAIBA-Corporation LATINOS KILLERS CORP Heaven84 Devils The Hundred Acre Hood CAPPA.514 Eternal Beings Astroya Guard Grupo de Asalto Chacal Darkside Killes corp SKILL OF GOD The Anarchy Effect GAME .I. OVER Please send skype, player name and corporation information to [email protected] "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

The KTM DuKe Dead Man's Game 132	Posted - 2015.04.22 10:37:00 - [122] - Quote Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: I just read something tin the Warlords 1.1 Patch Notes, and I noticed something odd... CCP wrote: Team A recovers Team B's losses, split equally among team A's members Does this mean that WP no longer affects PC payouts? If so, that sucks!!! Wp werent affecting payouts before this, there was a isk total made by isk lost + an established amount of isk, that was equally given to every player in the winning side =ƒæèDMG Director=ƒæè =ƒÖî=ƒÖîAlt of H0riz0n Unlimit=ƒÖî=ƒÖî. Getting hate mails from alliance all day long=ƒÿÄ=ƒÿÄ
xp3ll3d dust The Southern Legion 216	Posted - 2015.04.22 12:00:00 - [123] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we have been contacted by a large majority of key players in PC. I would like to extend the invitation for a few days more, and calling out specifically large District Holders that have not been in touch. As before, you absolutely don't have to be a current PC player today, only have interest in making it better. Responded. I added in some extra details about how I tried to solve the #1 pain point of PC battles, which was people not knowing when to log in. So I created http://www.dusttimers.com/ to help out. CPM1 Candidate > A richer Dust app ecosystem means more player engagement!
Bri Bub Eternal Beings 191	Posted - 2015.04.22 13:44:00 - [124] - Quote I will represent EB in this process and have communicated my contact information to the dust514feedback email address... o7 Be just and if you can't be just be arbitrary.
Silver Strike44 639	Posted - 2015.04.22 14:59:00 - [125] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we have been contacted by a large majority of key players in PC. I would like to extend the invitation for a few days more, and calling out specifically large District Holders that have not been in touch. As before, you absolutely don't have to be a current PC player today, only have interest in making it better. I would also specifically request that players in the Latin American community be in contact as they are as a whole a large holder, but for the most part multiple corporations holding one or two districts. We will be rolling out a questionnaire and sharing more information about PC 2.0 and its mechanics. In no specific order, corps with more than one district that have NOT been in contact. Ahrendee Inc Planet Express KAPPA.514 THE LAST H0PE GALAXY T-SOLDIERS The Naughty Ninjas Rebelion TLC X-TREME STARS D3ATH CARD KAIBA-Corporation LATINOS KILLERS CORP Heaven84 Devils The Hundred Acre Hood CAPPA.514 Eternal Beings Astroya Guard Grupo de Asalto Chacal Darkside Killes corp SKILL OF GOD The Anarchy Effect GAME .I. OVER Please send skype, player name and corporation information to [email protected] Several of those corps such as kappa, last hope, skill of god, grupo, kaiba, galaxy t and probably a couple others speak primarily another language and not much if any English. Cappa is obviously Kappas farm corp that they havent lost or transferred yet. Some that I have not listed entered and remain in PC out of the kindness if communities heart and due to the last district rule. All just heads ups. My YouTube Channel
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 2972	Posted - 2015.04.22 15:16:00 - [126] - Quote The KTM DuKe wrote: Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: I just read something tin the Warlords 1.1 Patch Notes, and I noticed something odd... CCP wrote: Team A recovers Team B's losses, split equally among team A's members Does this mean that WP no longer affects PC payouts? If so, that sucks!!! Wp werent affecting payouts before this, there was a isk total made by isk lost + an established amount of isk, that was equally given to every player in the winning side I never knew this!!!! Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3 Day 5/30 exclusively Minja
DEATH THE KlD Seven Kin of Purgatory 170	Posted - 2015.04.22 17:15:00 - [127] - Quote I will contact RND and see if any of their leaders are willing, though I'm assuming Kain is dealing with it I'll shoot him a msg and make sure
g li2 Grupo de Asalto Chacal Rise Of Legion. 702	Posted - 2015.04.22 18:03:00 - [128] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we have been contacted by a large majority of key players in PC. I would like to extend the invitation for a few days more, and calling out specifically large District Holders that have not been in touch. As before, you absolutely don't have to be a current PC player today, only have interest in making it better. I would also specifically request that players in the Latin American community be in contact as they are as a whole a large holder, but for the most part multiple corporations holding one or two districts. We will be rolling out a questionnaire and sharing more information about PC 2.0 and its mechanics. In no specific order, corps with more than one district that have NOT been in contact. Ahrendee Inc Planet Express KAPPA.514 THE LAST H0PE GALAXY T-SOLDIERS The Naughty Ninjas Rebelion TLC X-TREME STARS D3ATH CARD KAIBA-Corporation LATINOS KILLERS CORP Heaven84 Devils The Hundred Acre Hood CAPPA.514 Eternal Beings Astroya Guard Grupo de Asalto Chacal Darkside Killes corp SKILL OF GOD The Anarchy Effect GAME .I. OVER Please send skype, player name and corporation information to [email protected] Hello, I regret not having previously communicated with you. The reason was the language barrier. I do not speak English. We will make an effort to establish communication. G.A.C. CHACALES
zDemoncake Horizons' Edge 507	Posted - 2015.04.22 19:30:00 - [129] - Quote Quote: multiple corporations holding one or two districts. Quote: The Anarchy Effect Noted CEO of Horizons' Edge's mercenary division *My soul, your beats!* Enemy to many; equal to none.
BLUNT SMKR Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 268	Posted - 2015.04.22 19:38:00 - [130] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we have been contacted by a large majority of key players in PC. I would like to extend the invitation for a few days more, and calling out specifically large District Holders that have not been in touch. As before, you absolutely don't have to be a current PC player today, only have interest in making it better. I would also specifically request that players in the Latin American community be in contact as they are as a whole a large holder, but for the most part multiple corporations holding one or two districts. We will be rolling out a questionnaire and sharing more information about PC 2.0 and its mechanics. In no specific order, corps with more than one district that have NOT been in contact. Ahrendee Inc Planet Express KAPPA.514 THE LAST H0PE GALAXY T-SOLDIERS The Naughty Ninjas Rebelion TLC X-TREME STARS D3ATH CARD KAIBA-Corporation LATINOS KILLERS CORP Heaven84 Devils The Hundred Acre Hood CAPPA.514 Eternal Beings Astroya Guard Grupo de Asalto Chacal Darkside Killes corp SKILL OF GOD The Anarchy Effect GAME .I. OVER Please send skype, player name and corporation information to [email protected] I'll let ydubbs know. He might be interested to put his 2 cents in. Other higher ups in rnd that might be interested would be Anon or rampage I guess. Kain is another but he isn't director or anything from what I know. TeamWork>KDR Jump Off a Cliff An Hit The Sky With Me

gauntlet44 LbowDeep Heaven84 Devils Astroya Conglomerate. 229	Posted - 2015.04.23 01:42:00 - [131] - Quote message sent for heaven84 devils also play as Strangeland Stranger (Gal), Gauntlett5487 (Cal), and Larlac Theest (Min)
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 792	Posted - 2015.04.23 02:21:00 - [132] - Quote I will speak on D3ATH CARD's behalf. I am gathering my corporation's opinions so as to represent them properly. Thank you for the opportunity. o7 "Anybody order chaos?"

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 20837	Posted - 2015.04.23 06:54:00 - [133] - Quote Introductory emails have been sent to the whole group with the relevant information. Let's see how this goes! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 7798	Posted - 2015.04.23 07:01:00 - [134] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we have been contacted by a large majority of key players in PC. I would like to extend the invitation for a few days more, and calling out specifically large District Holders that have not been in touch. As before, you absolutely don't have to be a current PC player today, only have interest in making it better. I would also specifically request that players in the Latin American community be in contact as they are as a whole a large holder, but for the most part multiple corporations holding one or two districts. We will be rolling out a questionnaire and sharing more information about PC 2.0 and its mechanics. In no specific order, corps with more than one district that have NOT been in contact. Ahrendee Inc Planet Express KAPPA.514 THE LAST H0PE GALAXY T-SOLDIERS The Naughty Ninjas Rebelion TLC X-TREME STARS D3ATH CARD KAIBA-Corporation LATINOS KILLERS CORP Heaven84 Devils The Hundred Acre Hood CAPPA.514 Eternal Beings Astroya Guard Grupo de Asalto Chacal Darkside Killes corp SKILL OF GOD The Anarchy Effect GAME .I. OVER Please send skype, player name and corporation information to [email protected] How did "EVE Dust ISK Exchange Message Viktor Hadah 4 Info" miss that list... http://evemaps.dotlan.net/corp/EVE_Dust_ISK_Exchange_Message_Viktor_Hadah_4_Info Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll take your districts and hurt you. Get Dust ISK Here

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 20838	Posted - 2015.04.23 07:03:00 - [135] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we have been contacted by a large majority of key players in PC. I would like to extend the invitation for a few days more, and calling out specifically large District Holders that have not been in touch. As before, you absolutely don't have to be a current PC player today, only have interest in making it better. I would also specifically request that players in the Latin American community be in contact as they are as a whole a large holder, but for the most part multiple corporations holding one or two districts. We will be rolling out a questionnaire and sharing more information about PC 2.0 and its mechanics. In no specific order, corps with more than one district that have NOT been in contact. Ahrendee Inc Planet Express KAPPA.514 THE LAST H0PE GALAXY T-SOLDIERS The Naughty Ninjas Rebelion TLC X-TREME STARS D3ATH CARD KAIBA-Corporation LATINOS KILLERS CORP Heaven84 Devils The Hundred Acre Hood CAPPA.514 Eternal Beings Astroya Guard Grupo de Asalto Chacal Darkside Killes corp SKILL OF GOD The Anarchy Effect GAME .I. OVER Please send skype, player name and corporation information to [email protected] How did "EVE Dust ISK Exchange Message Viktor Hadah 4 Info" miss that list... http://evemaps.dotlan.net/corp/EVE_Dust_ISK_Exchange_Message_Viktor_Hadah_4_Info Let's say I took a wild guess at some corps being alt corps "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

deadpool lifetone D3ATH CARD RUST415 53	Posted - 2015.04.23 12:47:00 - [136] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we have been contacted by a large majority of key players in PC. I would like to extend the invitation for a few days more, and calling out specifically large District Holders that have not been in touch. As before, you absolutely don't have to be a current PC player today, only have interest in making it better. I would also specifically request that players in the Latin American community be in contact as they are as a whole a large holder, but for the most part multiple corporations holding one or two districts. We will be rolling out a questionnaire and sharing more information about PC 2.0 and its mechanics. In no specific order, corps with more than one district that have NOT been in contact. Ahrendee Inc - contact established Planet Express - contact established KAPPA.514 THE LAST H0PE GALAXY T-SOLDIERS The Naughty Ninjas Rebelion TLC X-TREME STARS D3ATH CARD - contact established KAIBA-Corporation LATINOS KILLERS CORP Heaven84 Devils - contact established The Hundred Acre Hood CAPPA.514 Eternal Beings - contact established Astroya Guard Grupo de Asalto Chacal - contact established Darkside Killes corp SKILL OF GOD The Anarchy Effect GAME .I. OVER Please send skype, player name and corporation information to [email protected] spoke with Skill of God , Rebelion tlc , latino killer corp . they understand english well enough but cant verbally communicate it perfectly . but are more then willing to give you they're ideas and opinions .
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2140	Posted - 2015.04.23 14:00:00 - [137] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Introductory emails have been sent to the whole group with the relevant information. Let's see how this goes! Never met a bigger masochist than you Ratatti. Godspeed, and good luck in there! I have cows that show more intelligence than some of you.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 3872	Posted - 2015.04.23 16:15:00 - [138] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we have been contacted by a large majority of key players in PC. I would like to extend the invitation for a few days more, and calling out specifically large District Holders that have not been in touch. As before, you absolutely don't have to be a current PC player today, only have interest in making it better. I would also specifically request that players in the Latin American community be in contact as they are as a whole a large holder, but for the most part multiple corporations holding one or two districts. We will be rolling out a questionnaire and sharing more information about PC 2.0 and its mechanics. In no specific order, corps with more than one district that have NOT been in contact. Ahrendee Inc - contact established Please send skype, player name and corporation information to [email protected] Uhh....who established contact? Shield tanking is hard mode /period. > Check RND out here
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2147	Posted - 2015.04.23 16:34:00 - [139] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we have been contacted by a large majority of key players in PC. I would like to extend the invitation for a few days more, and calling out specifically large District Holders that have not been in touch. As before, you absolutely don't have to be a current PC player today, only have interest in making it better. I would also specifically request that players in the Latin American community be in contact as they are as a whole a large holder, but for the most part multiple corporations holding one or two districts. We will be rolling out a questionnaire and sharing more information about PC 2.0 and its mechanics. In no specific order, corps with more than one district that have NOT been in contact. Ahrendee Inc - contact established Please send skype, player name and corporation information to [email protected] Uhh....who established contact? Bluntsmkr, according to this thread. I have cows that show more intelligence than some of you.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 3873	Posted - 2015.04.23 16:43:00 - [140] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we have been contacted by a large majority of key players in PC. I would like to extend the invitation for a few days more, and calling out specifically large District Holders that have not been in touch. As before, you absolutely don't have to be a current PC player today, only have interest in making it better. I would also specifically request that players in the Latin American community be in contact as they are as a whole a large holder, but for the most part multiple corporations holding one or two districts. We will be rolling out a questionnaire and sharing more information about PC 2.0 and its mechanics. In no specific order, corps with more than one district that have NOT been in contact. Ahrendee Inc - contact established Please send skype, player name and corporation information to [email protected] Uhh....who established contact? Bluntsmkr, according to this thread. copy that Shield tanking is hard mode /period. > Check RND out here

Aidualc LATINOS KILLERS CORP RUST415 153	Posted - 2015.04.23 19:05:00 - [141] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, we have been contacted by a large majority of key players in PC. I would like to extend the invitation for a few days more, and calling out specifically large District Holders that have not been in touch. As before, you absolutely don't have to be a current PC player today, only have interest in making it better. I would also specifically request that players in the Latin American community be in contact as they are as a whole a large holder, but for the most part multiple corporations holding one or two districts. We will be rolling out a questionnaire and sharing more information about PC 2.0 and its mechanics. In no specific order, corps with more than one district that have NOT been in contact. Ahrendee Inc - contact established Planet Express - contact established KAPPA.514 THE LAST H0PE GALAXY T-SOLDIERS The Naughty Ninjas Rebelion TLC X-TREME STARS D3ATH CARD - contact established KAIBA-Corporation LATINOS KILLERS CORP Heaven84 Devils - contact established The Hundred Acre Hood CAPPA.514 Eternal Beings - contact established Astroya Guard Grupo de Asalto Chacal - contact established Darkside Killes corp SKILL OF GOD The Anarchy Effect GAME .I. OVER Please send skype, player name and corporation information to [email protected] Somebody of Latinos Killers Corp will contact you, The CEO doesn't speak english, but we have many directors who does... also we already make a Post in our facebook group to get many of ideas and feedback. -- LKC -- Tomate Pote --
SalvadorSlX7 BanScotty 2	Posted - 2015.04.23 19:18:00 - [142] - Quote John Psi wrote: Cool. Can u also change server region choose mechanics? PC? planetary conquest or public contract
THE JANKA GAME .l. OVER Astroya Conglomerate. 1	Posted - 2015.04.23 20:40:00 - [143] - Quote sera o no sera
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1020	Posted - 2015.04.23 22:53:00 - [144] - Quote F it. Made a skype, sent the info. o7 Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Princess Tri-Tiqe Escrow Removal and Acquisition 0	Posted - 2015.04.24 15:25:00 - [145] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Any intentions of revision in the future if BPO's and APEX suits start to become a major issue? I.E: Team A knows they're going to lose the fight so they just hammer out a bunch of BPO's for the lulz, not incurring any loss at all on their behalf? What about LP/Aurum items? How are they calculated into all of this? BPO's actually have an assigned ISK value so while they wouldn't be expending ISK for their deaths they would still be adding to the opposing teams profits every time they die. LP and AUR items also have assigned ISK values AFAIK so it would all just go into the pool. (Someone blue can correct me if I've somehow misunderstood here but I think all of this is accurate). xD!!!!! Are you serious? so we just replaced ISK farming with ISK farming for screwing around in a PC match? Sign me up. Lock the districts and let's all have a blast finding out who can get killed the most running BPO LAVs into the side of a tank. Sounds like great fun for racing tournaments. Just have a bunch of tanks trying to blow up BPO LAVs while they run around the map. Don't even bother hacking the objectives, just blow each other up for the lulz. Hell, I have a capture card, I'll record it and edit it all on the house. EDIT: Dude just CONCORD sanction the BPO's out and be done with it. Playing in the match - even if it isn't a tactical push for the objectives - is still more involvement and entertainment than the prior versions. A no show doesn't earn ISK, putting one guy on the field against a team provides minimal value etc. If folks find it more worthwhile to fight for the payout of 150 standard level (or starter level) fits worth of ISK then sure why not? It isn't as if they couldn't go make ISK in a Pub anyway, to earn an average payout of 300k for a team under this system the fit cost of the opposing team needs to average at 32,000, a pure STD assault fit clocks in at around 10,125. BPO/starter fits are going to provide that value or less meaning that the scenario you describe would give payouts of about 94,922 or less so ISK earnings would be better by simply running a Pub. If mercs want to run team deploy pure BPO matches for lower than Pub level payouts at longer than average pub time lengths, because no one hacks points, then I say by all means let them do it. It's not like players spending their time doing that holds any balance implications, they could earn more faster in Pubs already. 0.02 ISK Cross I think you underestimate how much PC entities are willing to do just to get some free ISK. Hypothetically speaking, let's say you got 20 people (plausible). Team A: 1 Logi with drop-uplinks, 15 guys running all BPO gear averaging the 32,000 ISK you mentioned. Team B: Bunch of dudes with Shotguns. Doesn't even need to be a full team. Four guys is plenty. Logi on Team A just drops up-links, no-one hacks any objectives at all. The fifteen other dudes on Team A just spawn at any of the drop-uplinks in their free BPOs on throw-away alts and Team B just spam-farms them as soon as they spawn. For the sake of argument, we'll say that you have 15 dudes spawning every 10 seconds. That's 2,880,000 ISK every minute or 144,000 ISK every minute for each member of your 20 man farm team. Since they didn't hack any objectives? You just handed them the keys to a massive ISK faucet because the game will go on for about an hour or more. So, nah, being as I don't generally make 9,000,000+ ISK/hour running Pubs, this would be an insanely profitable avenue for the patient and if it's anything we've learned from exploiters in this game is that patience is a commonplace. I'm not just talking out of my hind quarters, I'm speaking from experience (EDIT: Pro tip, we did this calling in BPO LAVs and constantly hacking/re-hacking turrets). You give them the keys to do it and they will do it. There isn't any reason why BPO's should be used in PC as a player in PC, at that point, should be using -at least- higher level gear where the BPO necessity is no longer necessary and I don't see any reason why having BPO's/APEX's in PC is in any way beneficial, functional, immersive, or investing in performance gains.


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