DUST Search - Announcement:Changes to Planetary Conquest Reward Mechanics

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Any intentions of revision in the future if BPO's and APEX suits start to become a major issue? I.E: Team A knows they're going to lose the fight so they just hammer out a bunch of BPO's for the lulz, not incurring any loss at all on their behalf?

What about LP/Aurum items? How are they calculated into all of this?

BPO's actually have an assigned ISK value so while they wouldn't be expending ISK for their deaths they would still be adding to the opposing teams profits every time they die. LP and AUR items also have assigned ISK values AFAIK so it would all just go into the pool. (Someone blue can correct me if I've somehow misunderstood here but I think all of this is accurate).

xD!!!!!

Are you serious? so we just replaced ISK farming with ISK farming for screwing around in a PC match?

Sign me up. Lock the districts and let's all have a blast finding out who can get killed the most running BPO LAVs into the side of a tank. Sounds like great fun for racing tournaments. Just have a bunch of tanks trying to blow up BPO LAVs while they run around the map. Don't even bother hacking the objectives, just blow each other up for the lulz. Hell, I have a capture card, I'll record it and edit it all on the house.

EDIT: Dude just CONCORD sanction the BPO's out and be done with it.

Playing in the match - even if it isn't a tactical push for the objectives - is still more involvement and entertainment than the prior versions. A no show doesn't earn ISK, putting one guy on the field against a team provides minimal value etc.
If folks find it more worthwhile to fight for the payout of 150 standard level (or starter level) fits worth of ISK then sure why not?
It isn't as if they couldn't go make ISK in a Pub anyway, to earn an average payout of 300k for a team under this system the fit cost of the opposing team needs to average at 32,000, a pure STD assault fit clocks in at around 10,125. BPO/starter fits are going to provide that value or less meaning that the scenario you describe would give payouts of about 94,922 or less so ISK earnings would be better by simply running a Pub.

If mercs want to run team deploy pure BPO matches for lower than Pub level payouts at longer than average pub time lengths, because no one hacks points, then I say by all means let them do it. It's not like players spending their time doing that holds any balance implications, they could earn more faster in Pubs already.

0.02 ISK
Cross

I think you underestimate how much PC entities are willing to do just to get some free ISK. Hypothetically speaking, let's say you got 20 people (plausible).

Team A: 1 Logi with drop-uplinks, 15 guys running all BPO gear averaging the 32,000 ISK you mentioned.
Team B: Bunch of dudes with Shotguns. Doesn't even need to be a full team. Four guys is plenty.

Logi on Team A just drops up-links, no-one hacks any objectives at all. The fifteen other dudes on Team A just spawn at any of the drop-uplinks in their free BPOs on throw-away alts and Team B just spam-farms them as soon as they spawn.

For the sake of argument, we'll say that you have 15 dudes spawning every 10 seconds.

That's 2,880,000 ISK every minute or 144,000 ISK every minute for each member of your 20 man farm team. Since they didn't hack any objectives? You just handed them the keys to a massive ISK faucet because the game will go on for about an hour or more.

So, nah, being as I don't generally make 9,000,000+ ISK/hour running Pubs, this would be an insanely profitable avenue for the patient and if it's anything we've learned from exploiters in this game is that patience is a commonplace.

I'm not just talking out of my hind quarters, I'm speaking from experience (EDIT: Pro tip, we did this calling in BPO LAVs and constantly hacking/re-hacking turrets). You give them the keys to do it and they will do it. There isn't any reason why BPO's should be used in PC as a player in PC, at that point, should be using -at least- higher level gear where the BPO necessity is no longer necessary and I don't see any reason why having BPO's/APEX's in PC is in any way beneficial, functional, immersive, or investing in performance gains.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4282	Posted - 2015.04.15 02:19:00 - [1] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Any intentions of revision in the future if BPO's and APEX suits start to become a major issue? I.E: Team A knows they're going to lose the fight so they just hammer out a bunch of BPO's for the lulz, not incurring any loss at all on their behalf? What about LP/Aurum items? How are they calculated into all of this? BPO's actually have an assigned ISK value so while they wouldn't be expending ISK for their deaths they would still be adding to the opposing teams profits every time they die. LP and AUR items also have assigned ISK values AFAIK so it would all just go into the pool. (Someone blue can correct me if I've somehow misunderstood here but I think all of this is accurate). See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4283	Posted - 2015.04.15 03:04:00 - [2] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Any intentions of revision in the future if BPO's and APEX suits start to become a major issue? I.E: Team A knows they're going to lose the fight so they just hammer out a bunch of BPO's for the lulz, not incurring any loss at all on their behalf? What about LP/Aurum items? How are they calculated into all of this? BPO's actually have an assigned ISK value so while they wouldn't be expending ISK for their deaths they would still be adding to the opposing teams profits every time they die. LP and AUR items also have assigned ISK values AFAIK so it would all just go into the pool. (Someone blue can correct me if I've somehow misunderstood here but I think all of this is accurate). xD!!!!! Are you serious? so we just replaced ISK farming with ISK farming for screwing around in a PC match? Sign me up. Lock the districts and let's all have a blast finding out who can get killed the most running BPO LAVs into the side of a tank. Sounds like great fun for racing tournaments. Just have a bunch of tanks trying to blow up BPO LAVs while they run around the map. Don't even bother hacking the objectives, just blow each other up for the lulz. Hell, I have a capture card, I'll record it and edit it all on the house. EDIT: Dude just CONCORD sanction the BPO's out and be done with it. Playing in the match - even if it isn't a tactical push for the objectives - is still more involvement and entertainment than the prior versions. A no show doesn't earn ISK, putting one guy on the field against a team provides minimal value etc. If folks find it more worthwhile to fight for the payout of 150 standard level (or starter level) fits worth of ISK then sure why not? It isn't as if they couldn't go make ISK in a pub anyway, to earn an average payout of 300k for a team under this system the fit cost of the opposing team needs to average at 32,000, a pure STD assault fit clocks in at around 10,125. BPO/starter fits are going to provide that value or less meaning that the scenario you describe would give payouts of about 94,922 or less so ISK earnings would be better by simply running a Pub. If mercs want to run team deploy pure BPO matches for lower than Pub level payouts at longer than average pub time lengths, because no one hacks points, then I say by all means let them do it. It's not like players spending their time doing that holds any balance implications, the could earn more faster in Pubs already. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4290	Posted - 2015.04.15 03:57:00 - [3] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Any intentions of revision in the future if BPO's and APEX suits start to become a major issue? I.E: Team A knows they're going to lose the fight so they just hammer out a bunch of BPO's for the lulz, not incurring any loss at all on their behalf? What about LP/Aurum items? How are they calculated into all of this? BPO's actually have an assigned ISK value so while they wouldn't be expending ISK for their deaths they would still be adding to the opposing teams profits every time they die. LP and AUR items also have assigned ISK values AFAIK so it would all just go into the pool. (Someone blue can correct me if I've somehow misunderstood here but I think all of this is accurate). xD!!!!! Are you serious? so we just replaced ISK farming with ISK farming for screwing around in a PC match? Sign me up. Lock the districts and let's all have a blast finding out who can get killed the most running BPO LAVs into the side of a tank. Sounds like great fun for racing tournaments. Just have a bunch of tanks trying to blow up BPO LAVs while they run around the map. Don't even bother hacking the objectives, just blow each other up for the lulz. Hell, I have a capture card, I'll record it and edit it all on the house. EDIT: Dude just CONCORD sanction the BPO's out and be done with it. Playing in the match - even if it isn't a tactical push for the objectives - is still more involvement and entertainment than the prior versions. A no show doesn't earn ISK, putting one guy on the field against a team provides minimal value etc. If folks find it more worthwhile to fight for the payout of 150 standard level (or starter level) fits worth of ISK then sure why not? It isn't as if they couldn't go make ISK in a Pub anyway, to earn an average payout of 300k for a team under this system the fit cost of the opposing team needs to average at 32,000, a pure STD assault fit clocks in at around 10,125. BPO/starter fits are going to provide that value or less meaning that the scenario you describe would give payouts of about 94,922 or less so ISK earnings would be better by simply running a Pub. If mercs want to run team deploy pure BPO matches for lower than Pub level payouts at longer than average pub time lengths, because no one hacks points, then I say by all means let them do it. It's not like players spending their time doing that holds any balance implications, they could earn more faster in Pubs already. 0.02 ISK Cross I think you underestimate how much PC entities are willing to do just to get some free ISK. Hypothetically speaking, let's say you got 20 people (plausible). Team A: 1 Logi with drop-uplinks, 15 guys running all BPO gear averaging the 32,000 ISK you mentioned. Team B: Bunch of dudes with Shotguns. Doesn't even need to be a full team. Four guys is plenty. Logi on Team A just drops up-links, no-one hacks any objectives at all. The fifteen other dudes on Team A just spawn at any of the drop-uplinks in their free BPOs on throw-away alts and Team B just spam-farms them as soon as they spawn. For the sake of argument, we'll say that you have 15 dudes spawning every 10 seconds. That's 2,880,000 ISK every minute or 144,000 ISK every minute for each member of your 20 man farm team. Since they didn't hack any objectives? You just handed them the keys to a massive ISK faucet because the game will go on for about an hour or more. So, nah, being as I don't generally make 9,000,000+ ISK/hour running Pubs, this would be an insanely profitable avenue for the patient and if it's anything we've learned from exploiters in this game is that patience is a commonplace. I'm not just talking out of my hind quarters, I'm speaking from experience (EDIT: Pro tip, we did this calling in BPO LAVs and constantly hacking/re-hacking turrets). You give them the keys to do it and they will do it. There isn't any reason why BPO's should be used in PC as a player in PC, at that point, should be using -at least- higher level gear where the BPO necessity is no longer necessary and I don't see any reason why having BPO's/APEX's in PC is in any way beneficial, functional, immersive, or investing in performance gains. I gave the numbers in my prior post and there is no way to make the millions you describe. There are 150 clones per side, that is one hard limit, and the approximate value of a STD BPO fit is 10,125 (not the 32,000 minimum I mentioned, because to hit that value figure you'd have to be running something more that BPOs). Even at the 32,000 figure, which again requires real ISK fits not BPOs, the max income is 4,800,000 ISK total for the entire team combined. So using your 4 man farm team context, and assuming a logi for uplinks as you described, that's 960,000 ISK per player. If it takes ~15 sec per kill, 4 kills per cycle that's about 10 minutes for those guys to farm up that much ISK assuming ideal conditions and willing participants on the other side. Also excluding the times for opening deployment and set up. The thing is that ~960k can only be made if the other team is using ISK fits and thus losing money. Using the BPO value of 10,125 or less gives us a max of 1,518,750 again divided by your proposed team of 5. 303,750. So that's still a decent take, but also much more of a pub level take, it requires players willing to respawn and be shot like clock work over and over again in that time, requires set up etc and even then is still an inflated figure because it doesn't account for the time of initial deployment. Even beyond that these figures assume that you can deploy 4-5 people into one side (or both sides) of a battle and have it spin up and work properly which while it's how things work now may change. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4291	Posted - 2015.04.15 04:00:00 - [4] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: With player trading coming I think it might be safe to consider setting ISK values of BPOs to 0. I would seriously consider at least switching BPO LAV isk values to 0. That lowers the payout for all match types (outside of FW) since earnings are directly effected by the value of assets destroyed in match. Assume, in theory, that a whole team of new bros used only starter fits for a whole match. With your proposal in place the opposing team would earn 0 ISK. IMO that's far from an ideal situation. And even in a more real world case where only some of the players on an opposing team run pure BPOs (say one squad) you've nearly halved the earnings from that match... still not really a great situation in my view. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)