Okay, after playing a PC in the new system it does seem to be working as intended.

Both teams went all out with proto gear. The end result was that we won and received a bit over 1.3m ISK per merc and the enemy team got just over 900k ISK. In effect we won the match and did so loosing around 30% less in ISK assets than our opponent.

I died 6 times in a full proto logi and once in a proto scout but still made about 200k profit . I would say this is largely due to running factional proto suits though, which adds an interesting wrinkle. It seems in this system faction gear can really give that ISK efficiency edge.

Looking at the system I would make one fairly minor change. Give the winner all of the salvage for the fight. Before salvage was split between the teams as the stop-gap to encourage players to fight even a loosing match. With ISK being derived for each team with "keep what you kill" it makes sense to shift the salvage to the winner. I think this would serve as a good immediate EOM bonus for being the winner. Logically it would make sense as the winners would be the ones that can pick over the battlefield for that salvaged gear.

Salvage sold for peanuts,btw to NPC or traded out at risk to the traders and minus 10% or something stupid as well.

3.No, I do not recall Rattati having posted a PC2.0 document proposal. I am relying on these forums, the official game forums, to have that info but haven't seen it. What has been posted, has been little else than real vague and general concept stuff. Not formal proposals and nothing with a reference to "BMK"s.

3.No, I do not recall Rattati having posted a PC2.0 document proposal. I am relying on these forums, the official game forums, to have that info but haven't seen it. What has been posted, has been little else than real vague and general concept stuff. Not formal proposals and nothing with a reference to "BMK"s.

FTFY

Here you go https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2715403

(You might have to copy the URL to the bar, been getting 404 errors lately from links for some reason)

In the future make sure you have all of the information before going on an emotionally driven tirade. Its unbecoming.

Man this is beautiful, Kain shuts down youre argument so you have to resort to betching about selling the goddamn salvage.
Or trading it with an unfinalized tax at this point.

Maybe the sky isnt falling chicken little

See you soonGǪin pubsGǪfor ISK ;)

Here you go https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2715403

(You might have to copy the URL to the bar, been getting 404 errors lately from links for some reason)

In the future make sure you have all of the information before going on an emotionally driven tirade. Its unbecoming.

I didn't say the sky is falling, scoobie. I said PC pay is. Kain is proving that, with his 200k profit on his 1.7M payout. Pay has fallen to standard Pub Match profit margins. Pay has fallen, been driven down, with the idea it will be made up for elsewhere. Where and how that "elsewhere" is will be determined "Soon(TM)". In the mean time, a distinctive gamemode in a game without enough content to begin with gets homogenized into being identical to already existing gamemodes.

My comment on the salvage is an aside to the greater issue, not a replacement, troll. Shouldn't you be on a mic being an idiot somewhere and not in here pretending to know how to read?

404s either way, direct or url copy/pasted. I appreciate your trying to link it, but since it should be stickied nice and large somewhere simply telling me where should be enough.

This is the synopsis. "Don't own something, that you can't defend"

From my WIP document:

Corporation Members need to Finish Daily Missions, earning Command Points for the Corporation.

Any Corporation Actions require Command Points, and thus, the activity of a Corporation is limited by the size of the Corporation and activity of its members.

Wealth accumulation is through Active sales of Clones, that are generated on Districts.

Wealth can also be generated through Tax income from Corp Members.

Corporations will also be able to attack Districts using Clone Packs that only cost Command Points, making money by inflicting more losses on the enemy team than they lose themselves, using the new "Keep what you Kill" ISK reward method.

Black Market Kredits are created and distributed equally to all Corporation Members on Clone Sales.

BMK's can be used to buy Black Market goods, such as unique BPO's and gear.

PS, this might be what Pokey was trying to show you. Its in the archives now, meaning itll be in-game somewhere between 2 to 6 weeks. Theres a chart here. EDIT FFS RATATTI fix the link to the damn development discussion archives
its called Planetary Conquest Revisited, incase you actually do intend to read it

Goddamn children these days.

Considering the "think tank" thread is totally missing and planetary conquest revisted has been moved to development archives, CCP has made up there mind on where PC 2.0 will start and go.

This is obviously a precursor and or teaser to that.

So the thought remains, who will be justified?

The whiners or the far-seers.

My money's on pokey.

1.3 million. Some snark about knowing how to read.
The more and more you sperg on about slayer-pay, the more apparent that you have only ever done that.
You see no strategy, you see no long term logistics, you have no concept of corp-morale, or even underclassed incentive.
All you see is you're fu-cking self. ME ME ME I AND MY ELITES NEED TO BE PAID MORE

Guess what neckbeard? That entire mentality right there is why you have no NEW corps in PC, no small-medium sized low skill, entry level meatbags to shoot, because eww filthy peasants, why should they get ANYTHING for daring to have a fight with ME? Then you all cry and cry that PC is stagnant and its only the same 50 dudes shooting eachother at any time.

Do you even understand why?

Because NO NEW CORP wants to beg their mercs for ISKies to buy a shitpack, that immediately gets vaporized a bunch of grizzled try-hards that do nothing but sit around and stroke egos while beating off to RoadHouse saying welcome to the thunderdome biatch.

A loss or two with absolutely no payback (we'll discount salvage because you like to do that) is irrecoverably detrimental to such corps. You build and build and build and train, work your guys hard, to get immiediately stomped out of existence, for what?

FOR FUKING WHAT?
Garbage. Absolute Garbage.

Theres no incentive for new players in PC unless theyre already ultra rich and bored.

Making someone feel they have a fighting chance because they can get something for trying hard to fight, is the carrot on a stick approach to get you new bros to slaughter religiously.

Giving this new crude attrition model also makes it attractive to pirate corps, like mine, who have no interest in holding land, but hey, ill throw the boys a bone and attack some shithole district, lol around in BPOs and weaken the aforementioned district for someone else to come along and actually slam it. My guys are happy, they get paid for messing up someones day while doing cheap, and possibly setting off a chain of events that make the defender lose that district.


But no, you dont see any of this.
Or maybe you do, but you're so goddamn butthurt someone had the audacity to change YOUR PAY SLIGHTLY so as to invite fresh blood, that youre going to ***** and fu-cking moan and sperg about because PAY ME PAY ME PAY ME PAY ME

I get you and your cohort are all about that. Good for fukking you, bad for the game assclown.
The change is in the right direction, whether you can fathom that or not, is yet to be entirely seen.

PS, this might be what Pokey was trying to show you. Its in the archives now, meaning itll be in-game somewhere between 2 to 6 weeks. Theres a chart here. EDIT FFS RATATTI fix the link to the damn development discussion archives
its called Planetary Conquest Revisited, incase you actually do intend to read it

Goddamn children these days.

Additionally those who applied to the PC think tank received correspondence from Rattati outlining those same details.

LOL

Nice trolltears.

You don't win, you deserve to lose. Period.

I personally have given out multiple districts directly to new and small corps, in alliance, out of alliance even to "enemies". Hell, while your scrub self was evidently busy QQing about how unfair PC is I was literally selling clones off districts, at a healthy 0 profit btw, so make them "Unoccupied" so that ANYONE could place their own clones and PC.


Hilarious you want to talk **** to me but while you've been busy talking I've been busy PCing.

GG

Thank You

Ok, now those are nice ideas BUT clearly there isn't a fully finalized and ready to implement set of parameters there. BMK? So, more LP? More rebranding of the same already existing elements as a guise of "new content"? I'm not buying, but whatever.

Long story short, if this is the totality of the info at this time then the assertion that PC payouts should be restructured rigt now is an absolute Farce.

Payouts have been redrawn so that later on they can be added to. Why not have everything ready to go, THEN redraw them? Losers, apparently, can't handle being told and shown that they LOST, and need a feel-good prize. A....scrubaward? Fine. I understand that. But...a Profit ?? Even if you lose, you still win? That's Pub stuff and should stay there.



Inb4 the next yaddayaddaL337piratevikingpubstar, I wouldn't get paid from a loss either. Learn to punch up instead of insisting on dragging down.

How many, HOW MANY of those 'give aways' stuck it out?
How many realized its not worth it?
How many just rolled back over and fukking left?
How many to THIS DAY fight AGAINST YOU?

Thank You





Ok, now those are nice ideas BUT clearly there isn't a fully finalized and ready to implement set of parameters there. BMK? So, more LP? More rebranding of the same already existing elements as a guise of "new content"? I'm not buying, but whatever.

Long story short, if this is the totality of the info at this time then the assertion that PC payouts should be restructured rigt now is an absolute Farce.

Payouts have been redrawn so that later on they can be added to. Why not have everything ready to go, THEN redraw them? Losers, apparently, can't handle being told and shown that they LOST, and need a feel-good prize. A....scrubaward? Fine. I understand that. But...a Profit ?? Even if you lose, you still win? That's Pub stuff and should stay there.



Inb4 the next yaddayaddaL337piratevikingpubstar, I wouldn't get paid from a loss either. Learn to punch up instead of insisting on dragging down.

Horizons' Edge was a recipient of a Cap Aq district, and another from Shidi..Yoshi(Sp?)

Before we received our districts we launched 6 clones packs so players that were new to Planetary Conquest could get the feel for it and develop a new mindset for competitive play. We win about half of those matches, including a Re-up. Time passes and we receive our districts.

Nyain San attacks us with 360 clones. Naturally, my guys get worried because the bane of their pubstomps was knocking at the door, and being a NEW team to PC, they felt unprepared and worried. Match comes along, they have EVE support, match proceeds, we lose by 2 MCC ticks. We were missing quite a few 'A-team' players, but we toughed it out for 3 matches. We all had fun, and surprisingly morale was raised at the thought of us overcoming them.

We're still developing, but fighting other teams that are on our level, while sparring with established PC corps will hopefully get us to the level of being able to put up a good fight against Cap Aq.

I don't check the district flips that often, but I do believe a handful of hispanic corporations entered Molden Heath. I believe that some corporations are just lacking in manpower and are waiting to be able to field 16 of their own players in a match. I think it is either that, or people don't want to harden up.

Answering your listed questions
Yes
No
No
Currently developing our team. SoonTM

Here you go [Source]

In the future make sure you have all of the information before going on an emotionally driven tirade. Its unbecoming.

I had to honestly read this a few times before I got what you were saying.

you bitcch about being paid for being the best.
they create a new currency, with new gear and other stuff that will only be accessed by the best of the best
and you want nothing of it?

G fuckking G el Operator.
You Win,.
I can't possibly el operate on your level of idiocy.

I just played two PC battles between high level corps. In both battles, a decent amount of clones, all in proto gear as far as I know, were lost and the team I was on won. The first game I earned about 1.1 million ISK and lost 8 suits, I believe. Each of the suits I lost cost me around 190k ISK. That is a net loss of around 400k ISK. In the next battle, I earned around 1 million ISK and lost 5 of those 190k ISK suits. That is a net gain of around 50k ISK. Over the course of two PCs where only proto was used between two high level corps and I wouldnt say I died more than a reasonable amount of times, I lost a few hundred thousand ISK. The corp I played for earned nothing in the way of ISK, just a meaningless district and none of the people on my team gained a significant amount of ISK if they earned ISK at all. Is this not ridiculous?

Thinking back to how you performed in those matches and what you accomplished, was a proto suit necessary to do it? Could you have accomplished the same tasks in a cheaper suit?

I average about 5 deaths a match. Pub, fw, PC, it doesn't matter. I average those 5 deaths whether I'm wearing apex, adv, or proto. So knowing this, I'll say that the gear I use is irrelevant to my performance. I average 13 kills a match. If I can do it in apex, why use proto?

Look, there is no justifying the use of BPO's or APEX's in PC.

The entire point of both of those were for players to accumulate ISK - citing we didn't have an economy to screw over - and that's the entire reason for them existing now while looking cool. The looking cool bit is being hashed out with SKINs and we now have player trading and asset selling which is, essentially, a rudimentary economy. We have trade forums now and this only strengthens the argument that the economy is now in play.

I feel like I'm repeating myself with this (maybe because it wasn't properly tackled the last time I brought it up, for whatever reason).

In PC though? They're fundamentally unnecessary. Looking cool? SKINs. Accumulating ISK? You should not be doing this in PC and as Pokey keeps bringing up, profitability isn't in ISK with PC 2.0 (even though he admits that right now it's not in play and the system is derp). I'm -REALLY- having serious doubts as to why BPO's and APEX's should have any role at all in PC other than the inevitable: Weaponized Boredom through lack of good fights, and Cheapskating using an exploited, gamed system of "Keep What You Kill".

So the enemy team wants to use cheap stuff... Who cares right? Well, when the only thing holding them back from attacking your district is the clones to actually assault it than what's to stop them from starting a War of Attrition on you and just burning you out of both ISK and patience? Instead of asking "Why would they use BPOs", ask "Why -WOULDN'T- they use BPOs?"

They can assault you with riskless/lossless BPO's/APEX's as long as they have clones and if you attack them they'll just use all the ISK they've saved up from kicking your hind quarters to field the best gear. If they look like they're losing? They'll just default back to the BPO, give you a run for your money at no cost to them, and then you have more territory than you can feasible defend and they just repeat the process until they get their districts back - but now with a bank of ISK they generated from kicking you while you're down.

Give it time. Once people start realizing that there's no other way to make ISK in PC and PC is fundamentally worthless otherwise until -MAYBE- a tentative June/July release (according to the roadmap Trello) they're just going to default to the easiest option available: BPO's, Attrition, Boredom, and Bull****.

Again, I've seen a lot of justification for why a person would -want- to use them but absolutely no justification as to why they should be in PC for any reason other than exploiting a gamed system.