Then let's set the math aside.

What functional, logical, immersive, or performance gaining reason do you have for having BPO's in PC? What is their functional purpose other than exploiting a defensive move to freely defend a district you know you are going to lose and forcing the enemy to incur ISK losses by doing so? How is that in any way fair for the attackers who have to deal with it?

Scorched Earth tactics are burning everything as you fall back to prevent the enemy from using it.

Scorched Earth tactics are -NOT- letting them have it anyway and giving them a run for their money with absolutely no risk on your end.

It'd be cool if it were a choice factor but this is an obvious choice. If I lose the first battle for the district, the second is where I start weighing my options. If I feel it's absolutely necessary to keep the district, I'll fight - otherwise, why bother wasting ISK? It's not a choice, it's a default, and every PC entity -ever- will make that choice; thereby, it's not so much a choice as a "use this tactic always and forever".

It's going to get old -real freaggin quick- and, again, I see absolutely no reason why it should be a thing. The entire point of all of this was to offer good fights, wasn't it? Why sacrifice or risk those good fights by giving a mechanic like this when the simple solution is to simply prevent BPO's and APEX suits from being used in PC?

Every time I brought up BPOs and APEXs, I heard "we don't have an economy for them to affect". Okay, well, we have player trading. We have asset selling. How far back are we going to move this goal post before we start seriously considering the implications that riskless, lossless assets have on the game?

EDIT: Long story short, you're just taking one terrible meta (players giving up early and just letting their enemies have the district) and replacing it with another (fielding BPOs and doing damage with no risk/loss). The only players losing with this new mechanic are the attackers.

This isn't some pub match, this is the end game meta. If there is one mode where the best of the best is encouraged to be used, this is it. Your idea on what PC should be is just wrong. There should be absolutely no incentive to run cheap gear, yet here it is.

This isn't just some glorified PUB match, where if you are losing, just switch to cheap fits and try to cause what little pain you can. You don't give up until those last few ticks, and even then you usually don't stop. All the while running proto.

This mode is for the elite of dust, go big or go home. Now it's just another PUB match until they come out with their "soon" changes that will make it worth it. Just stupid, they could have brought this change out with other incentives. Nope, overnight, hey guess what guys, you now make even less out of PC cause we NEEDED to fix this exploit priority.

Was it really that important that it need to be done NOW?

And I think many are missing the fundemental of what PC is. It's not about bringing cheap stuff to make a profit. You aren't hurting anyone by doing that. Sure you might get a larger than normal payout (by LOSING mind you), but what was the point of the battle. This shouldn't be some pub you go afk in.

We bring the best, and always will, and care little for the isk. Sometimes we don't even make a profit off a win. It's not about the isk for most of us, it's about the fight. And by encouraging the use of lesser gear to make a larger profit, there won't be many good fights.

This idea that people get caught up in that PC has been about isk are just crazy. Sure for a select few it was (and we wiped a few of those off the starmap ourselves), but not for all. This sudden change will have more negative affects than it will positive.

Sure it's easy to say chill out when you(and many others) aren't even involved in this mode. This didn't need to happen right this moment. I get that other changes are on the way, but without those changes, the only people that suffer are those that are already heavily invested into PC. And for what reason?????

Yeah, I'm pissed, and others like me have every right to be. This isn't hurting the corps, but the PLAYERS.

you are taking out roles that ccp intended to be played in every game, there is no such thing as a cheap logi suit that would be viable, bpo links why? 15 seconds can not be used tactically . tanks forget about it, so there for av role is gone. theres 3 roles automatically thrown out of pc. its pretty much the same now as an ambush game mode just with an objective.

Would you not define PC as endgame content? I think most would. Endgame content consists of using what assets (skills points) you have amassed in order to be competitive with others or be challenged in another way. Since Dust is a strictly multiplayer game, it the endgame content should be highly competitive and require the highest level of everything (skill and gear) in order to compete.

Pokey, the more commentary I read from you in tryng to justify this the more utterly divorced from the reality of the topic I realize you are.

We've seen bpo's fielded in PC ever since bpo's were available. "Serious" battles or otherwise.

"Battle to battle earnings" has been by far the best and fairest payment system to date. Paid for performance, direct to the merc. No passive accrual, no active generation reliant on however many different people to get a merc PAID for a battle.

There is NO profitability without isk. ANY other, extra means or ethergoo or w/e ultimately is converted to ISK and every single step in between Fighting and Gettin' Paid is a timewaster, a chance to not be paid properly OR BOTH.

3.No, I do not recall Rattati having posted a PC2.0 document proposal. I am relying on these forums, the official game forums, to have that info but haven't seen it. What has been posted, has been little else than real vague and general concept stuff. Not formal proposals and nothing with a reference to "BMK"s.

3.No, I do not recall Rattati having posted a PC2.0 document proposal. I am relying on these forums, the official game forums, to have that info but haven't seen it. What has been posted, has been little else than real vague and general concept stuff. Not formal proposals and nothing with a reference to "BMK"s.

404s either way, direct or url copy/pasted. I appreciate your trying to link it, but since it should be stickied nice and large somewhere simply telling me where should be enough.

This is the synopsis. "Don't own something, that you can't defend"

From my WIP document:

Corporation Members need to Finish Daily Missions, earning Command Points for the Corporation.

Any Corporation Actions require Command Points, and thus, the activity of a Corporation is limited by the size of the Corporation and activity of its members.

Wealth accumulation is through Active sales of Clones, that are generated on Districts.

Wealth can also be generated through Tax income from Corp Members.

Corporations will also be able to attack Districts using Clone Packs that only cost Command Points, making money by inflicting more losses on the enemy team than they lose themselves, using the new "Keep what you Kill" ISK reward method.

Black Market Kredits are created and distributed equally to all Corporation Members on Clone Sales.

BMK's can be used to buy Black Market goods, such as unique BPO's and gear.

PS, this might be what Pokey was trying to show you. Its in the archives now, meaning itll be in-game somewhere between 2 to 6 weeks. Theres a chart here. EDIT FFS RATATTI fix the link to the damn development discussion archives
its called Planetary Conquest Revisited, incase you actually do intend to read it

Goddamn children these days.

Thank You

Ok, now those are nice ideas BUT clearly there isn't a fully finalized and ready to implement set of parameters there. BMK? So, more LP? More rebranding of the same already existing elements as a guise of "new content"? I'm not buying, but whatever.

Long story short, if this is the totality of the info at this time then the assertion that PC payouts should be restructured rigt now is an absolute Farce.

Payouts have been redrawn so that later on they can be added to. Why not have everything ready to go, THEN redraw them? Losers, apparently, can't handle being told and shown that they LOST, and need a feel-good prize. A....scrubaward? Fine. I understand that. But...a Profit ?? Even if you lose, you still win? That's Pub stuff and should stay there.



Inb4 the next yaddayaddaL337piratevikingpubstar, I wouldn't get paid from a loss either. Learn to punch up instead of insisting on dragging down.