Dear players,

Last night we changed PC reward mechanics from Biomass to GÇ£Keep what you KillGÇ¥, on a team basis.

CCP has been aware of an exploit involving alt-farming ISK through the Biomass No-Show method for some time now until we could gauge the situation.

After lengthy discussions with the majority of District holders, we have decided to switch the reward mechanics to a new method, which has been previously discussed in the Features and Ideas Forums.

This means that Team A will earn Team BGÇÖs ISK losses, split equally among Team A members, and vice versa.

This means that District battles are no longer GÇ£winner takes allGÇ¥, making it viable to stick it out, switching to more cost effective gear and causing enough losses on the enemy to break even.

As the exploit was the only viable way of creating wealth in PC, we hope this change will influence a bigger shakeup in PC tactics. We may reduce the cost of Clone Packs to initiate a Raiding aspect, where Corporations decide to try to make money by minimizing their losses and inflicting more than their own cost plus the Clone Pack.

We are also preparing changes to Planetary Conquest, introducing Command Points and Earned District Income (not passive) which allows us to say GÇ£while Districts are not economically valuable now, they will beGÇ¥. This has also been extensively discussed in the forums.

Some corporations may decide to stop investing in PC, some will change their tactics, and we predict that some will continue exactly as they have been, and collect as many districts as possible before the changes.

A change is coming, and we hope it will be worth it.

With the payouts being so low is this CCP's way of telling us they want less proto in PC matches?

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My guess is that it's CCP's way of telling us they want less proto in pubs... The ISK factories and exploits are going bye-bye, and with lower payouts in PC's the most viable way of making money is grinding it in pubs.

Just a supposition...maybe the rich have endless ISK but somehow I think over time it will dry out if mercs keep spamming proto in pubs AND fielding it as a necessity in PCs.

BPO's need to be in PC because they serve as entry level for new corps to try things out. BPO's combined with warbages producing clones will allow active corps with Command Points, a point of entry into PC.

BPO's in PC is no different than using Rookie Ships in sov warfare in eve.

What's wrong with proto in Pubs. Sure before when they faced people without it, but with new matchmaking you usually go against people wearing it or can wear it.

There shouldn't be ANY complaints over proto in Pubs. I spent plenty of time obtaining that, and should be encouraged to use it against others that have it. Be it PUBS or PC. I believe that was a major point they were pointing to when they announced legion.

And besides, there are plenty out there who say that proto gear < skill. So you should probably get gud (according to proponents that advocate the idea gear has a lesser impact on engagements over skill. Ignore the fact that those who have it (proto gear) are probably pretty skilled to start with at that point in their merc life.).

I myself don't agree with that sentiment (skill > gear) when the gear DOES make a noticeable impact, proven by those that hate being proto stomped yet can't afford to run it as consistently as others.

Easy, cowboy. Who said proto shouldn't be used in pubs? Lern to reed gudder. I simply think with less ISK floating around, there will be less proto SPAMMING in pubs.

As for pubstomping? When the big corps are lolScrubLording at my ground spawn, I spawn MCC in a cloaked myofib suit and punch a few in the back of the head. I lose the suit but I can afford it b/c I don't constantly run it. It's great fun!

Maybe I punched you once and you're angry? Let's talk about it. Uz yor werds.

I think you misunderstood me, but no matter.

But tell me this, because you CHOOSE not to use proto gear, you feel it's right that if others do choose to use it, consistently, that they should somehow be punished.

I honestly don't understand this "Proto stomp mentality" with matchmaking in place. They pull proto, and you want to compete on their level, then pull proto. Nuff said.

As far as your idea of ISK, I know a great deal of people that have a boatload of isk, who obtained by grinding pubs with cheap/free fits. This idea floating around that the PC people are rich because they gamed the system is silly. A grand majority of them gained that legit. You honestly can't pretend like everyone that runs proto ever gained it through ill gotten means.

And I do suggest you reread what I said. You assumed I was bashing you, yet I was engaging in civil discourse.

My main point, you should be encouraged to run proto. It's not something reserved for special occasions. I worked hard to get that gear, and I and you should be encouraged to use it all the time. And if you think that the PC change is going to stop the isk flow, just wait until you see trading.

I'll be proto stomping all day everyday my friend, for I have MUCH to sell. And just wait until they open up the trade of aur things like boosters and keys. The isk will flow like a rushing river my friend.

Dear Cowboy,

Your "get gud" (in bold, I might add) isn't civil discourse, so get off your high horse (yes, pun on the cowboy thing). Maybe we're just talking past each other because you're butthurt by the changes and you think I'm happy they are "punishing" you with the new mechanics.

I made my fortune in pubs as well. It's a small fortune...not nine figures yet, but plenty to keep me entertained and able to run proto as needed.

I'm not talking about anyone being punished, guy. I'm just saying...again...that I THINK with less ISK floating around from the old PC mechanics, we will see less proto spamming in pubs. If you feel the new mechanics of PC is punishing you then that is your opinion. I'm just positing a thought about what one of the results might be.

Do I think it's a good thing that there may be less proto spamming in pubs? Yes. Absolutely. It will lead to better battles with actual escalation. I enjoy those fights the most.

o7 Cowboy!

BPO's need to be in PC because they serve as entry level for new corps to try things out. BPO's combined with warbages producing clones will allow active corps with Command Points, a point of entry into PC.

BPO's in PC is no different than using Rookie Ships in sov warfare in eve.

Dear players,

Last night we changed PC reward mechanics from Biomass to GÇ£Keep what you KillGÇ¥, on a team basis.

CCP has been aware of an exploit involving alt-farming ISK through the Biomass No-Show method for some time now until we could gauge the situation.

After lengthy discussions with the majority of District holders, we have decided to switch the reward mechanics to a new method, which has been previously discussed in the Features and Ideas Forums.

This means that Team A will earn Team BGÇÖs ISK losses, split equally among Team A members, and vice versa.

This means that District battles are no longer GÇ£winner takes allGÇ¥, making it viable to stick it out, switching to more cost effective gear and causing enough losses on the enemy to break even.

As the exploit was the only viable way of creating wealth in PC, we hope this change will influence a bigger shakeup in PC tactics. We may reduce the cost of Clone Packs to initiate a Raiding aspect, where Corporations decide to try to make money by minimizing their losses and inflicting more than their own cost plus the Clone Pack.

We are also preparing changes to Planetary Conquest, introducing Command Points and Earned District Income (not passive) which allows us to say GÇ£while Districts are not economically valuable now, they will beGÇ¥. This has also been extensively discussed in the forums.

Some corporations may decide to stop investing in PC, some will change their tactics, and we predict that some will continue exactly as they have been, and collect as many districts as possible before the changes.

A change is coming, and we hope it will be worth it.

I'd sooner get munsoned out here in the middle of nowhere than lose face in front of my friends and family.

Well there is a bit more to it than just those ideas. Numbers and magical things, but not on the forums.

Also I apologize if I was condescending before, I'll admit that thread was well...buried. I just assumed you had signed up for the Think tank since you feel so strongly about PC and thus were in the know.

You and I have communicated a couple times before in here on a couple different things, No Worries on your being condescending. I saw the Think Tank thread and commented there as well as the original Feedback thread. No, I did not join the skype group, tho at least one person I know did. Regardless, that ideas were drafted and hatched by a select minority of a minority of playerbase isn't neccessarily bad. What's bad is that what was drafted up was put into place without any further vetting from the rest of us, the rest of that minority playerbase, in here AND what was drafted was implemented only partially wihout full publcation of the rest of whatever is supposed to go on with the implementation announcement. Instead its a case of drafed and implement without the public vetting process where the rest of us could look and say, before we're made to carry the burden, "Hey, thats cool but this is bad because..." and maybe the whole turn on the game to find the world upside-down could be avoided. PR Fundamentals that largely were solved a looong time ago, supposedly.

Its not on you Pokey, unless you're doing the mail as well as the math these days.

With the payouts being so low is this CCP's way of telling us they want less proto in PC matches?

Longer post delays than what I'd prefer, I try to forum while at work I can get paid for doing it. It gets busy, RL comes first.

Anyways, I owe an apology also for my... vitriol... in describing loss rewards as scrubawards. Plenty of damn good players lose sometimes, myself included. Sometimes, we lose hard on both the match and the isk. **** happens in combat and "scrub" is a lose term that often has little to do with it.

So, from a more relaxed frame of mind, issues with the PC Payout changes are as follows, one far worse than the other:

1. Win Pay sucks now (the lesser issue of the two). By previously recorded accounts PC wins now are paying, after losses, Profit Margins right about or slightly above Pub margins. This is bad. For the work, the risk and the effort involved to win ISK payout must be significantly higher than whats generated from goofing off in Pubs. Otherwise, there's very little incentive for individual mercs to dig down and fight tough battles against tough opponents, and barely incentive to fight easy battles since the overall profits are identical to pubs. Pubs also having the income generation advantage of loading and queuing significantly faster with waaaay less LAG. Same pay for less work and a better experience? Where will people go, I wonder, hmm.....?

2. PC Match Loss can now be Profitable (the more serious issue). Prior to changes, losses didn't pay. At all. A winner take all kind of thing. Obviously, for the greater playerbase since its a part of whats been done, this doesn't work as well as it could. Instead of players taking hard knocks and learning hard lessons and improvingthey quit and cry. I get it. The game is tough sometimes and easily construed as overly punishing relative to other games. PC loss pay ties rigt into that because, OMG, there was a Loss that wasn't rewarded somehow. So, now there's pay on PC Losses. Fine.

But Profits ? Is that really whats appropriate here? In this game, in this game universe and at this particular game level?? I don't share the opinion that BPOs should be banned from PC or removed from the game all together however that they are FREE suits, whose use means 0 risk, then their use should NOT be rewarded. Just like a LOSS in Planetary Conquest should not be PROFITABLE . Should there be some...pay...for losing? Sure, fine. But not Profit. Its a LOSS. Allowing Profits makes it a WIN because all of this is about dem iskies! Whether they're generated from salvage or translated as LP or BMKs or CPs its all about buying stuff and doing stuff and that all comes down to isk! And in this universe, 0-isk risked is supposed to equal 0-isk rewarded!

Now, is there a solution that allows for the New Vision to occur and allows the existing Fundamental Values of New Eden to coexist? I'm sure there is, we just need to generate one.

I propose that any kill from a BPO in PC not be paid to the merc in the BPO. Simple as that. The coding is obviously rallying who kills what so a little mod to that which basically "if" the kill is from a BPO suit "then" that tally for rhat kill "equals" ZERO.
Run them BPOs and save a buck, cool. But you're not going to make a buck.


flame it up trolls! I have a case of beer, a bag o mallows and a bottle of 151 ready!

Hi Frame,

I know this almost certainly isn't the case but what if this flowed over into EVE, so pilots giving orbitals would get ISK rewards for the value of what is destroyed at the end of the battle? This would strengthen the link and encourage EVE players to get involved a bit more ^^

Team A recovers Team B's losses, split equally among team A's members

I just read something tin the Warlords 1.1 Patch Notes, and I noticed something odd...



Does this mean that WP no longer affects PC payouts? If so, that sucks!!!