Just as a player, I have not been able to kill a single vehicle in the last few weeks. And I am dedicating myself, to really see how it is, by always spawning in as AV when I see any vehicle and going after it.

As an experiment I have had two to three proto AV fits, both a cloak scout plc and/or Minmando swarms, on my main. I am simply terrible with RE's so I don't even run them. I always fit Proto AV grenades, but they are not overly effective.

Against a semi-competent driver that doesn't panic and drive into a wall, there is no way to kill a HAV. They simply harden and rail or blast me, fairly easily.

2 AV scare most HAV's away. Thing is about PLC is that it is very difficult to hit a moving target, the first shot is a hit, 2nd maybe and then you are in dream territory.

Even fitted as I am, the last two week KDR against HAV's is approximately 0-20 on my side.

Against random guys that start shooting me when I am trying to AV, I am probably a 5/30 KDR with my measly scout HP, or screenfilling swarm launcher.

The situation is not even close to what you are describing, for me at least.

I don't try to ruin infantry just because I get out-ranged by a rail rifle, or try to fight a sprint strafing scout.

Why are you trying to ruin vehicles simply because you don't use them?

Just as a player, I have not been able to kill a single vehicle in the last few weeks. And I am dedicating myself, to really see how it is, by always spawning in as AV when I see any vehicle and going after it.

As an experiment I have had two to three proto AV fits, both a cloak scout plc and/or Minmando swarms, on my main. I am simply terrible with RE's so I don't even run them. I always fit Proto AV grenades, but they are not overly effective.

Against a semi-competent driver that doesn't panic and drive into a wall, there is no way to kill a HAV. They simply harden and rail or blast me, fairly easily.

Here's the thing, the HAV is running away. That should not be the case. HAVs should endure AV, not dodge or avoid it. This is the crux of the issue for me. I want my HAV to be able to sit there and soak up AV damage when my modules are up. When my modules are down, escape should not be a likely scenario. I should either a. have backup to protect me or b. hope my modules are off cooldown. But I should by no means expect my 40 ton tank to be able to jet away nearly at LAV levels of speed. Tanks don't run. They endure, or they die.

I'm just throwing these hypotheticasl at you. If you could endure AV from several players, wouldn't you be better off running before your modules reach cooldown anyways? Isnt this what we currently have with armor AV engaging shield tanks? Putting us right back at square one?

spkr wants it that way. he has literally said being killed in a tank by infantry is unfair in the past.

I'm just throwing these hypotheticasl at you. If you could endure AV from several players, wouldn't you be better off running before your modules reach cooldown anyways? Isnt this what we currently have with armor AV engaging shield tanks? Putting us right back at square one?

All I've said is that I want vehicle SP and ISK to be worth it. Never have I said I want to be invincible.

I'm just throwing these hypotheticasl at you. If you could endure AV from several players, wouldn't you be better off running before your modules reach cooldown anyways? Isnt this what we currently have with armor AV engaging shield tanks? Putting us right back at square one?

But you assume the tank has it's current speed. I want the resistance/hp buffed, and the speed nerfed to a higher magnitude. Tanks should be about staying power. You roll up on a location, pop your modules, and go nuts. But if the enemy isn't dead by the time your stuff is off coldown, running should not be viable. I'm talking at least 25% less speed and 50% less acceleration, minimum. My tank should be a slow behemoth, not a nimble quick hit-and-run vehicle like it is now.

As a side note if Rattati sticks close to the numbers he has now, UHAVs will be able to eat between 7 and 10 successive AV shots from a solo gunner.

I gotta ask, are you just looking at the "stock" tank? If so, you are doing it wrong.

I want things to go back to exactly as they were after 1.6 hit.

Indestructible triple rep maddie.
Stacking damage mods.
Insane MLT nitros.
Infantry tears.
Super OP ADS
Pinpoint accurate large blasters.

Ect.

There is absolutely NO reason anything but another tank should even stand a chance against me. Come on guys, things were fair and balanced just the way they should be back then. Kinda like Fox News.

No.

Some delightful bastard did EHP extrapolations based on the proto tier of each chassis using the current modules. I am going off the UHAV proto extrapolation.

My assessments aren't final in any reality that we don't have finalized HAV proposal numbers. And they won't be relevant till phase 2 or phase 3 of the rebalance.

I don't know, I think Pokey did the baseline fits but tentatively it looks like the Cal UHAV will have up to roughly 11,749 EHP. current alpha if I recall that's 7.72 Forge gun shots, so 8 shots to solo. Don't miss.

the gallente will float around 12,706 EHP 5.94 shots with the IAFG. so 6 shots with an anti-armor weapon. But that makes sense. the cal UHAV should be more resistant.

the Caldari MBT will take 4.80 shots, so 5 shots solo. the Gallente MBT 4.22 shots, so still 5 shots.

that's with current. Bear in mind this is a rough guesstimate based on an extrapolation. This is pure crystal balling, so take it as a theory, not expectation of fact.

If modules are addressed then the guesswork changes.

but tentatively the EHP stuff is looking fairly good. I won't know more until Rattati actually finishes, but I'm fairly sure you can see why I'm against adding alpha to AV in most cases.

Swarms are another ball of weird. I can't even begin to guess how well they will do, but my gut says overkill.

these rough ballparks are assuming max proto vs. max proto.

Of course, keeping TTK the same even with a "super awesome maximum heavy tank." The thing should have 15,000 base armor.

.

Yeah I am concerned the new tanks are going to have a similar base HP as the current LAV, and everyone is trying to balance the numbers around a tank being able to pop in one reload because ' It's not fair that a tank doesn't pop when I shoot in its general vicinity for 10 seconds', when I can't remember the last time drove a tank towards the letter for support and one of the following hasn't occurred in combination to one guy with proto swarms:

A. Another tank starts firing on you - with swarms and missiles = near insta pop

B. A manned 15, 000 ehp rail turret in redline - with swarms = near insta pop

C. Every infantry player near a supply depot switching to commando or forger = insta pop

D. Any 2 AV that have put a days worth of sp into AV, = unhardened certain death, hardened race to the redline.

E. A random Flux, AV Nade, Remote/mine combo, = with swarms near insta death.

First of all, let's make the scenario rediculous by saying there are no friendly tanks available and no installations to man.

When a tank starts rolling around, the consensus is not ' it's ok we have a forger that only needs to reload once if he doesn't hit the sweet spot, just ignore it " or ' don't worry those two blueberry scouts are chasing it with militia swarms it's as good as dead '...... anyone killed by a red tank spawns in with AV nades on thier fit or fluxes MINIMUM. Everyone around a supply depot immediately swaps to thier most powerful AV fit, every squad with OBS checks to see if they can at least drop a minor Flux on said tank.

10,000 EHP is nothing when a team is focused on taking you down.

If a team wanted a Thales sniper dead it would be dead, if a team wanted a rooftop uplink gin it would be gone.

My concern is if players start sinking thier sp into these slow behemoth tanks, and every time ' killed by sagaris ion cannon ' comes up in the kill feed AV goes giant hunting, that the AV community is going to start an uproar about pilots not being able to get out of their redline, asking for webifiers and redline tank nerfs because it's not 'fair' that they didn't get to pop a tank.

I have lost countless tanks driving into the enemy redline trying to make another tanker dead, not because it helped the team win the match, but simply to chase the dragon, which is what most AV players are doing.

Tanks are like mini bosses that roll in and distract infantry enough to get the friendly hack off, if they get a couple kills with thier hardners are up they can be sure the next hardner cycle will get them hit twice as hard if you don't get popped.

Just as a player, I have not been able to kill a single vehicle in the last few weeks. And I am dedicating myself, to really see how it is, by always spawning in as AV when I see any vehicle and going after it.

As an experiment I have had two to three proto AV fits, both a cloak scout plc and/or Minmando swarms, on my main. I am simply terrible with RE's so I don't even run them. I always fit Proto AV grenades, but they are not overly effective.

Against a semi-competent driver that doesn't panic and drive into a wall, there is no way to kill a HAV. They simply harden and rail or blast me, fairly easily.

2 AV scare most HAV's away. Thing is about PLC is that it is very difficult to hit a moving target, the first shot is a hit, 2nd maybe and then you are in dream territory.

Even fitted as I am, the last two week KDR against HAV's is approximately 0-20 on my side.

Against random guys that start shooting me when I am trying to AV, I am probably a 5/30 KDR with my measly scout HP, or screenfilling swarm launcher.

The situation is not even close to what you are describing, for me at least.