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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2901
   |
Posted - 2015.02.12 13:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Obviously shield vehicles will have a higher recharge rate.
Active reps are needed so that armor tanks aren't completely outclassed in every aspect.
And vehicles just need to be better overall. AV is already exceedingly powerful, they don't need any more damage.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2901
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 13:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Just as a player, I have not been able to kill a single vehicle in the last few weeks. And I am dedicating myself, to really see how it is, by always spawning in as AV when I see any vehicle and going after it.
As an experiment I have had two to three proto AV fits, both a cloak scout plc and/or Minmando swarms, on my main. I am simply terrible with RE's so I don't even run them. I always fit Proto AV grenades, but they are not overly effective.
Against a semi-competent driver that doesn't panic and drive into a wall, there is no way to kill a HAV. They simply harden and rail or blast me, fairly easily.
2 AV scare most HAV's away. Thing is about PLC is that it is very difficult to hit a moving target, the first shot is a hit, 2nd maybe and then you are in dream territory.
Even fitted as I am, the last two week KDR against HAV's is approximately 0-20 on my side.
Against random guys that start shooting me when I am trying to AV, I am probably a 5/30 KDR with my measly scout HP, or screenfilling swarm launcher.
The situation is not even close to what you are describing, for me at least.
I can be on at midnight Friday night my time. I can show you what a tank can do to enemies.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2901
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Posted - 2015.02.12 13:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
As far as that, there are far too many people that don't listen to the beep, and have no idea I'm putting REs on their hull. I have a Gal scout I do that with; Boundless REs (yes I have them, for any others reading), packed Lai Dai, and ADV plasma. With those that have no clue, I just put the REs on the hull, fire a plasma then blow the REs, easily destroying a tank.
With those that move, I need to bide my time to get enough REs on them. It's doable though.
Thing is, there's those that have no clue, those that have some experience, and guys like me that tanked in PC. I hate tooting my horn, but those that tank in PC are a few cuts above the rest. We pay attention at all times, unless we're drunk. We know the advantages and disadvantages of the hulls and turrets, the limitations of our fits, etc. 1.7 was a huge blow to the crotch as far as options went, and any random person could go into vehicles and make a joke out of my experience. I'm not saying I don't want competition, or that it should take so much SP as to make vehicles unobtainable, but I want the experience and SP investment to be worth it.
Bringing back some of the old vehicle attributes will certainly make things better, as well as 5% per level for shield, armor, CPU and PG.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2901
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 14:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Atiim wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
The situation is not even close to what you are describing, for me at least.
That's because you were fighting people who know how to use a vehicle. The OP is not one of those people.
Says a guy that thinks because he has SP into vehicles, that makes him a tanker.
Oh, and my crazy month of PC experience > your assumptions based on very little experience.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2901
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 16:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:AV is already exceedingly powerful, they don't need any more damage. wut I routinely slam volleys of swarms into HAV and ADS only to have them harden and blap me, or hard and run to a side of the map that hasn't fitted AV yet to continue the mass murder.
You already accomplished making them run away. What more do you want, a certain kill from just 3 volleys? If that were the case, what would be the point of using vehicles?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2901
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 16:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:why should we stop at "drive off?"
No one has yet provided an adequate explanation.
As I said just before, if AV was that powerful why would anybody use vehicles at all? What's the point of all those vehicles skills then? What's the point that of Rattati trying to bring hulls back? Why have vehicles at all?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2901
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 16:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Just as a player, I have not been able to kill a single vehicle in the last few weeks. And I am dedicating myself, to really see how it is, by always spawning in as AV when I see any vehicle and going after it.
As an experiment I have had two to three proto AV fits, both a cloak scout plc and/or Minmando swarms, on my main. I am simply terrible with RE's so I don't even run them. I always fit Proto AV grenades, but they are not overly effective.
Against a semi-competent driver that doesn't panic and drive into a wall, there is no way to kill a HAV. They simply harden and rail or blast me, fairly easily.
2 AV scare most HAV's away. Thing is about PLC is that it is very difficult to hit a moving target, the first shot is a hit, 2nd maybe and then you are in dream territory.
Even fitted as I am, the last two week KDR against HAV's is approximately 0-20 on my side.
Against random guys that start shooting me when I am trying to AV, I am probably a 5/30 KDR with my measly scout HP, or screenfilling swarm launcher.
The situation is not even close to what you are describing, for me at least. Last night my ADD or OCD kicked and I wasted 8-9 Cal SCTs, proto nades, cmplx dmg mds x2, adv swarms. I got the tank after I surrounded him (Crotchgrab360). Tankers can hear way too much and swarms should be faster in flight. AV Flux nades?
We hear too much? That's experience. Should we not be allowed to use gaming headsets? Should the volume lower itself when in a vehicle?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2901
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Posted - 2015.02.12 17:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:why should we stop at "drive off?"
No one has yet provided an adequate explanation. As I said just before, if AV was that powerful why would anybody use vehicles at all? What's the point of all those vehicles skills then? What's the point that of Rattati trying to bring hulls back? Why have vehicles at all? *facepalm* The reason an AV weapon would cause a vehicle pilot to be driven off IS BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT TO KILL HIM. If a weapon isn't lethal, it's not going to drive off anyone. Otherwise people would just carry around a bag of cotton balls in order to throw to drive off muggers. "Get back or I'll swab you!"
Again, what's the point of vehicles if they get destroyed so quickly?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2901
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 17:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:why should we stop at "drive off?"
No one has yet provided an adequate explanation. As I said just before, if AV was that powerful why would anybody use vehicles at all? What's the point of all those vehicles skills then? What's the point that of Rattati trying to bring hulls back? Why have vehicles at all? why have dropsuits at all? the red dots can kill me in them! Why have LAVs at all? The red dots can kill me in them! Why have... It's a BATTLE SIMULATION! NOT A GODDAMNED TANK LOVER FAIRYLAND!
Anything a vehicle can do, infantry can do 10x better, except taking good links off a roof. Again, what's the point of vehicles in that case?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2901
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 17:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Just as a player, I have not been able to kill a single vehicle in the last few weeks. And I am dedicating myself, to really see how it is, by always spawning in as AV when I see any vehicle and going after it.
As an experiment I have had two to three proto AV fits, both a cloak scout plc and/or Minmando swarms, on my main. I am simply terrible with RE's so I don't even run them. I always fit Proto AV grenades, but they are not overly effective.
Against a semi-competent driver that doesn't panic and drive into a wall, there is no way to kill a HAV. They simply harden and rail or blast me, fairly easily.
2 AV scare most HAV's away. Thing is about PLC is that it is very difficult to hit a moving target, the first shot is a hit, 2nd maybe and then you are in dream territory.
Even fitted as I am, the last two week KDR against HAV's is approximately 0-20 on my side.
Against random guys that start shooting me when I am trying to AV, I am probably a 5/30 KDR with my measly scout HP, or screenfilling swarm launcher.
The situation is not even close to what you are describing, for me at least. Last night my ADD or OCD kicked and I wasted 8-9 Cal SCTs, proto nades, cmplx dmg mds x2, adv swarms. I got the tank after I surrounded him (Crotchgrab360). Tankers can hear way too much and swarms should be faster in flight. AV Flux nades? We hear too much? That's experience. Should we not be allowed to use gaming headsets? Should the volume lower itself when in a vehicle? The pilots sound quality and external volume should be nerfed and localized vehicle noise and on-board weapon report buffed. I should have suggested killing 3rd person view. 3rd person in Gran Turismo is for scrubs..lol
Find a different game to kill.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2901
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Posted - 2015.02.12 17:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:why should we stop at "drive off?"
No one has yet provided an adequate explanation. As I said just before, if AV was that powerful why would anybody use vehicles at all? What's the point of all those vehicles skills then? What's the point that of Rattati trying to bring hulls back? Why have vehicles at all? why have dropsuits at all? the red dots can kill me in them! Why have LAVs at all? The red dots can kill me in them! Why have... It's a BATTLE SIMULATION! NOT A GODDAMNED TANK LOVER FAIRYLAND! Spkr's ideal AV weapon. The Swab Launcher. Fires harmless cotton balls at enemy vehicles. They don't do damage but the sound of cotton relentlessly bouncing off of the tanks hull will annoy them into submission and cause them to drive off.
When have I ever said I want AV to be useless?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2902
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 17:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:why should we stop at "drive off?"
No one has yet provided an adequate explanation. As I said just before, if AV was that powerful why would anybody use vehicles at all? What's the point of all those vehicles skills then? What's the point that of Rattati trying to bring hulls back? Why have vehicles at all? *facepalm* The reason an AV weapon would cause a vehicle pilot to be driven off IS BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT TO KILL HIM. If a weapon isn't lethal, it's not going to drive off anyone. Otherwise people would just carry around a bag of cotton balls in order to throw to drive off muggers. "Get back or I'll swab you!" Again, what's the point of vehicles if they get destroyed so quickly? Whats the point of AV if it doesn't destroy vehicles?
Why should infantry so easily solo a vehicle? What's the staying power and purpose of a vehicle if it can't assault or defend a point?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2902
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Posted - 2015.02.12 17:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
Anything a vehicle can do, infantry can do 10x better, except taking good links off a roof. Again, what's the point of vehicles in that case?
And thus you've finally reached the point of the conversation where everyone has been saying "Vehicles need a more defined role on the battlefield." Congrats.
Of course they don't have a role. Skirmish 1.0 is gone, and vehicles have been marginalized for 3 years.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2902
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 17:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
When have I ever said I want AV to be useless?
When you said "I want it to be a deterrent, not a means to counter vehicles". Id find the direct quote but I'm at work and honestly have better things to do. But hey I'll entertain the crown, tell me, if you're in a tank and someone is hitting you with swarms. How long do you feel is a reasonable amount of time that you can sit there and take it in the face before you have to leave? I want a number of seconds in a generalize situation. An average, if you will.
Deterrent =/= useless
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2902
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 17:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
When have I ever said I want AV to be useless?
When you said "I want it to be a deterrent, not a means to counter vehicles". Id find the direct quote but I'm at work and honestly have better things to do. But hey I'll entertain the crown, tell me, if you're in a tank and someone is hitting you with swarms. How long do you feel is a reasonable amount of time that you can sit there and take it in the face before you have to leave? I want a number of seconds in a generalize situation. An average, if you will. Deterrent =/= useless That's not a number. Answer my question.
There is no number. Deterrent is not the same as useless. Proxy mines work great. A pair of forges work great. A pair of swarms work great on a straight line. Why do pilots have to tell you how to destroy us?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2902
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 18:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pokey wrote:
So basically you have no idea what the appropriate time to kill is. In other words you are incapable of being constructive to the balance process, as you don't actually have a means to offer up any quantitative suggestions. At least every can see that clearly now.
I'm sure you want it to be one second, probably less. Double swarm Minmando can take out an unhardened armor tank in 5 volleys. I would know, it's happened to me. So that's a little over 5 seconds. That's unacceptable
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2902
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 18:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
NINEinch WEAPON wrote:The other day we managed to drop a python with a lazor rifle, massdriver and combat rifle,... that was a bad pilot.. Not watching his health. Good pilots however, can hear the swarms before they hit. So my question is..
How do you factor pilot skills into your balancing?
We can't always hear them. Experience can't be factored in. Experience leads to nerfs. We get handicapped because we have experience.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2902
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Posted - 2015.02.12 18:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Gabriel Ceja wrote:I'm not sure about when the new tanks come out but with the status quo AV is in a pretty good spot the problem is not the AV because you never hear about a armor tank, DS, or ADS that they couldn't kill because it ate their swarms.
The problem according to most threads like this is the shield tanks that can just stand there and take the beating but even the tanks itself is not to blame it is the ability to stack shield hardeners.
When shield hardeners are stacked swarms can no longer do enough damage to stop the shield regen from kicking in so if anything the best thing to do is not allow hardeners to be stacked, even if it does lower the already scarce fitting options, because it's not only a problem for AV but it also poses a problem to armor tank users.
The stacking of hardeners is also an imbalance among tanks because if you think swarms look bad hitting a harden stacked shield tank you should see how pitiful the large blaster turret is against a tank like that.
Swarms kill the regen with 2 hardeners active.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2902
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Posted - 2015.02.12 18:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Just as a player, I have not been able to kill a single vehicle in the last few weeks. And I am dedicating myself, to really see how it is, by always spawning in as AV when I see any vehicle and going after it.
As an experiment I have had two to three proto AV fits, both a cloak scout plc and/or Minmando swarms, on my main. I am simply terrible with RE's so I don't even run them. I always fit Proto AV grenades, but they are not overly effective.
Against a semi-competent driver that doesn't panic and drive into a wall, there is no way to kill a HAV. They simply harden and rail or blast me, fairly easily.
2 AV scare most HAV's away. Thing is about PLC is that it is very difficult to hit a moving target, the first shot is a hit, 2nd maybe and then you are in dream territory.
Even fitted as I am, the last two week KDR against HAV's is approximately 0-20 on my side.
Against random guys that start shooting me when I am trying to AV, I am probably a 5/30 KDR with my measly scout HP, or screenfilling swarm launcher.
The situation is not even close to what you are describing, for me at least. I can be on at midnight Friday night my time. I can show you what a tank can do to enemies. Like get wrecked by malleus?
I wasn't soloed. What part about that don't you understand? It takes 2 or more to take me out in most cases: 2 tanks, 2 AV, combo of the two. You just don't accept that I have extensive experience.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2902
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 18:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey wrote:
So basically you have no idea what the appropriate time to kill is. In other words you are incapable of being constructive to the balance process, as you don't actually have a means to offer up any quantitative suggestions. At least every can see that clearly now.
I'm sure you want it to be one second, probably less. Double swarm Minmando can take out an unhardened armor tank in 5 volleys. I would know, it's happened to me. So that's a little over 5 seconds. That's unacceptable learn to do math. I's significantly more than 5 seconds.
Switching to a second swarm is 0 reload time. Play the game more than once every 3 months.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2902
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 19:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:NINEinch WEAPON wrote:The other day we managed to drop a python with a lazor rifle, massdriver and combat rifle,... that was a bad pilot.. Not watching his health. Good pilots however, can hear the swarms before they hit. So my question is..
How do you factor pilot skills into your balancing? We can't always hear them. Experience can't be factored in. Experience leads to nerfs. We get handicapped because we have experience. experience has nothing to do with it. I actually fought a good tanker who supported their squad and was supported by them. gunnlogi surived on fire with a sliver of armor at the EoM. so precisely what difficulty are you having surviving AV if you're as slick as you think you are?
I'm frequently solo, but as I said, yes, experience does matter, as it has saved me many times. I don't usually have infantry backup, or tank backup. So yes, experience does matter.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2903
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 19:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:NINEinch WEAPON wrote:The other day we managed to drop a python with a lazor rifle, massdriver and combat rifle,... that was a bad pilot.. Not watching his health. Good pilots however, can hear the swarms before they hit. So my question is..
How do you factor pilot skills into your balancing? We can't always hear them. Experience can't be factored in. Experience leads to nerfs. We get handicapped because we have experience. experience has nothing to do with it. I actually fought a good tanker who supported their squad and was supported by them. gunnlogi surived on fire with a sliver of armor at the EoM. so precisely what difficulty are you having surviving AV if you're as slick as you think you are? He just doesn't want to die or use teamwork, while insisting AVers die to him easily and require teamwork to kill him.
Where did I say I don't want to die? It's inevitable in a huge target. I use teamwork, like in a Python when they were still good because I had my own SP into them. Where did I say I want infantry to die easily to me? You're literally pulling BS out of thin air, accusing me of things I've never said
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2903
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 19:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey wrote:
So basically you have no idea what the appropriate time to kill is. In other words you are incapable of being constructive to the balance process, as you don't actually have a means to offer up any quantitative suggestions. At least every can see that clearly now.
I'm sure you want it to be one second, probably less. Double swarm Minmando can take out an unhardened armor tank in 5 volleys. I would know, it's happened to me. So that's a little over 5 seconds. That's unacceptable learn to do math. I's significantly more than 5 seconds. Switching to a second swarm is 0 reload time. Play the game more than once every 3 months. basing your argument on an outlier fit that's rarely used isn't valid for setting the discussion standard. Learn to talk to people without being a douche.
So you instantly dismiss it because you don't use it. Great argument you have there.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2903
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Posted - 2015.02.12 19:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:
Then why do you always cry about vehicles being underpowered when, from your own mouth, it usually takes 2+ people to kill you?
I don't get where you are coming from here.
Are you a skilled player that 1v2s regularly, or a whiner? You can't be both without being an *******.
1. Experience
2. Experience
3. Experience
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2904
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Posted - 2015.02.12 19:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
So you instantly dismiss it because you don't use it. Great argument you have there.
No, he instantly dismisses it because the odds of you facing someone with Dual Swarms is so low that it could be considered comical, and that dual swarms itself is so impractical that it is to be considered comical. Its a valid argument.
Again, dismissing what I say simply because you don't like it.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2905
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Posted - 2015.02.12 19:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:You know guys, since the HAV and Turret feedback threads closed, I was wondering how long it would take for threads like these crop up.
Ahhhh, so familiar. Another episode of Spkr4thedead versus everyone else per usual. nothing to see here.
That doesn't make you think that it's essentially 3-10 people ganging up and bullying me because I won't compromise on vehicles?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2905
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Posted - 2015.02.12 20:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:why should we stop at "drive off?"
No one has yet provided an adequate explanation. As I said just before, if AV was that powerful why would anybody use vehicles at all? What's the point of all those vehicles skills then? What's the point that of Rattati trying to bring hulls back? Why have vehicles at all? why have dropsuits at all? the red dots can kill me in them! Why have LAVs at all? The red dots can kill me in them! Why have... It's a BATTLE SIMULATION! NOT A GODDAMNED TANK LOVER FAIRYLAND! Spkr's ideal AV weapon. The Swab Launcher. Fires harmless cotton balls at enemy vehicles. They don't do damage but the sound of cotton relentlessly bouncing off of the tanks hull will annoy them into submission and cause them to drive off. Still too OP for Spker they need to be nerfed meow, how do you expect balanced game if tanks are being pelted by cotton balls and causing them to drive off backwards in a straight line.... up a hill.... with 1200 shields.... and 4000 armor
Proper placement ensures a vehicle will have a really tough time. That's why I messaged you saying to post about how hard it was for 5 swarms to kill me.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2905
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Posted - 2015.02.12 20:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:I recommend you guys pick up either solid AV-fits to swap into, pick up a skilled rail tanker, or prepare jihad jeeps to
take out a high-experience tanker. We are not Warpoint Pinatas and continuous nerfing won't make you any
better. I run into groups of AV all the time. The difference between them getting me and me getting them or
getting out of there is skill, coordination. Watch my routes, mix up your AV, and don't be sad if you don't get me.
I won't be sad if you do catch and kill my tank. I'll "GG".
Intelligence is OP.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2905
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 20:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Banjo Robertson wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Just as a player, I have not been able to kill a single vehicle in the last few weeks. And I am dedicating myself, to really see how it is, by always spawning in as AV when I see any vehicle and going after it.
As an experiment I have had two to three proto AV fits, both a cloak scout plc and/or Minmando swarms, on my main. I am simply terrible with RE's so I don't even run them. I always fit Proto AV grenades, but they are not overly effective.
Against a semi-competent driver that doesn't panic and drive into a wall, there is no way to kill a HAV. They simply harden and rail or blast me, fairly easily.
2 AV scare most HAV's away. Thing is about PLC is that it is very difficult to hit a moving target, the first shot is a hit, 2nd maybe and then you are in dream territory.
Even fitted as I am, the last two week KDR against HAV's is approximately 0-20 on my side.
Against random guys that start shooting me when I am trying to AV, I am probably a 5/30 KDR with my measly scout HP, or screenfilling swarm launcher.
The situation is not even close to what you are describing, for me at least. Does this mean you wana buff the plasma cannon some more?  The very least it means that AV is not inordinately powerful. The PLC is actually, as demonstrated by Breakin, painfully UP compared to Swarms. The PLC is for sure a very difficult to use weapon and while it can be used at range, typically my most successful runs with it involve me getting up close and personal with an HAV which almost always ends in my death or the HAV's death, rarely do they run at that point. Also note that when I do get an HAV kill with it, its typically because I can alpha down the shield's buffer before the hardener goes up. Once that hardener is up....good luck. I think the main problem with swarms is their concept in general. Typically Missiles in EVE are known for 2 things. 1. They're useful from their max range all the way down to 0km. They don't suffer from tracking issues, so they can target anything if its within their effective range. 2. They never miss. Damage can be reduced if the target is small/moving fast, and in exceedingly rare instances they can outrun/outrange the missiles. What this leads to is a philosophy of "Constant Sustained DPS". They don't tear targets apart like say a Blaster would with crazy close range DPS, but what they do allow is that once you start firing on the target, that target is going to sustain moderate amounts of damage for a long period of time while they try to either kill the AVer or simply outrange the enemy. I think after the range of the Swarms got castrated, the obvious assumption was that the DPS had to increase to compensate which was reasonable...but it's also not quite working right. I'm not advocating for a return to the crazy ranges we had before (What was it, 400m?) but it might be interesting to take a look at the concept for a longer range, lower DPS swarm launcher that is built more around long term sustained DPS rather than shorter range higher DPS. I think a great deal of swarm problems could be solved if they were simply required to sustain a lock and damage was buffed appropriately. Death to fire and forget.
Even more damage? Jesus Christ, why is the only solution to buff AV?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2905
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Posted - 2015.02.12 20:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Gabriel Ceja wrote:I'm not sure about when the new tanks come out but with the status quo AV is in a pretty good spot the problem is not the AV because you never hear about a armor tank, DS, or ADS that they couldn't kill because it ate their swarms.
The problem according to most threads like this is the shield tanks that can just stand there and take the beating but even the tanks itself is not to blame it is the ability to stack shield hardeners.
When shield hardeners are stacked swarms can no longer do enough damage to stop the shield regen from kicking in so if anything the best thing to do is not allow hardeners to be stacked, even if it does lower the already scarce fitting options, because it's not only a problem for AV but it also poses a problem to armor tank users.
The stacking of hardeners is also an imbalance among tanks because if you think swarms look bad hitting a harden stacked shield tank you should see how pitiful the large blaster turret is against a tank like that. Actually you can still stack hardeners on an ADS and on the... Saga II LAV I think? so that swarms cannot do enough damage to stop shield regen, effectively making the vehicle invincible while the hardeners are up (and before anyone starts the TRY THIS TRY THAT bullshit I was using a minmando with proto swarms and max dmg modding). But right now the biggest issue with vehicle balance is #1 railgun turret performance vs. dropships and #2 gunnlogi just needs to get nerfed somehow to bring it in line with the madruger.
Or, you know, armor can be buffed so it can actually have a chance against shield.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2905
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Posted - 2015.02.12 20:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:I recommend you guys pick up either solid AV-fits to swap into, pick up a skilled rail tanker, or prepare jihad jeeps to
take out a high-experience tanker. We are not Warpoint Pinatas and continuous nerfing won't make you any
better. I run into groups of AV all the time. The difference between them getting me and me getting them or
getting out of there is skill, coordination. Watch my routes, mix up your AV, and don't be sad if you don't get me.
I won't be sad if you do catch and kill my tank. I'll "GG". Your narrative of continuous nerfs is completely demolished by the simple reality that the Gunnlogi right now is basically invincible if its piloted by someone who isnt a complete moron. How do you explain how effective the gunnlogi is while still pretending tanks have been nerfed into the ground?
Intelligence is OP.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2908
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Posted - 2015.02.12 20:29:00 -
[32] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Mary Sedillo wrote:
Guys, tanks aren't that hard to run off if you work as a team.
Also consider the price of a well-fit tank. They aren't meant
to lose as many of them per game as a dropsuit.
1 player = 1 player A single AVer should be able to stand toe to toe with any single vehicle. Stop with all this "teamwork for thee, but not for me" bullshit. Accept that 1 player should be able to kill you without too much trouble, because that's just how good FPSs work.
You're not in a mech with double small turrets.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2908
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Posted - 2015.02.13 02:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
honestly it's pointless. Spkr4thedead is pissed off that he basically ignored by treating everyone in the HAV feedback thread like trash.
This is more of the same, only he's bringing his other buddy from back in the day who also liked to say get gud scrub when the HAVs were averaging between 20 and 50 KD in beta.
I treat people like trash by pointing out where they're wrong, as well as pointing out bad ideas? You make it sound like I'm saying bad things about their families.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2908
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Posted - 2015.02.13 05:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
tritan abbattere wrote:
from the few replies i have read from you you seem to jump to conclusions with out thinking much.
I usually don't need to spend time thinking of a reply, or spending 3 seconds to read and absorb every single word. I can fire out responses quickly because I know what does and what does not work. I can point out when people lie as well, like someone saying a Soma can tank 7000 damage launched in a few seconds.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2908
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Posted - 2015.02.13 13:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:tritan abbattere wrote:
from the few replies i have read from you you seem to jump to conclusions with out thinking much.
I usually don't need to spend time thinking of a reply, or spending 3 seconds to read and absorb every single word. I can fire out responses quickly because I know what does and what does not work. I can point out when people lie as well, like someone saying a Soma can tank 7000 damage launched in a few seconds. In short, he knows everything and anyobe who disagrees with him even slightly is wrong and trying to ruin the game.
I don't try to ruin infantry just because I get out-ranged by a rail rifle, or try to fight a sprint strafing scout.
Why are you trying to ruin vehicles simply because you don't use them?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2908
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Posted - 2015.02.14 13:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
spkr wants it that way. he has literally said being killed in a tank by infantry is unfair in the past.
All I've said is that I want vehicle SP and ISK to be worth it. Never have I said I want to be invincible.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2908
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Posted - 2015.02.14 13:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Just as a player, I have not been able to kill a single vehicle in the last few weeks. And I am dedicating myself, to really see how it is, by always spawning in as AV when I see any vehicle and going after it.
As an experiment I have had two to three proto AV fits, both a cloak scout plc and/or Minmando swarms, on my main. I am simply terrible with RE's so I don't even run them. I always fit Proto AV grenades, but they are not overly effective.
Against a semi-competent driver that doesn't panic and drive into a wall, there is no way to kill a HAV. They simply harden and rail or blast me, fairly easily.
2 AV scare most HAV's away. Thing is about PLC is that it is very difficult to hit a moving target, the first shot is a hit, 2nd maybe and then you are in dream territory.
Even fitted as I am, the last two week KDR against HAV's is approximately 0-20 on my side.
Against random guys that start shooting me when I am trying to AV, I am probably a 5/30 KDR with my measly scout HP, or screenfilling swarm launcher.
The situation is not even close to what you are describing, for me at least. Here's the thing, the HAV is running away. That should not be the case. HAVs should endure AV, not dodge or avoid it. This is the crux of the issue for me. I want my HAV to be able to sit there and soak up AV damage when my modules are up. When my modules are down, escape should not be a likely scenario. I should either a. have backup to protect me or b. hope my modules are off cooldown. But I should by no means expect my 40 ton tank to be able to jet away nearly at LAV levels of speed. Tanks don't run. They endure, or they die. I'm just throwing these hypotheticasl at you. If you could endure AV from several players, wouldn't you be better off running before your modules reach cooldown anyways? Isnt this what we currently have with armor AV engaging shield tanks? Putting us right back at square one?
You probably don't know the pounding swarms and forges give to shield tanks.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2910
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Posted - 2015.02.15 14:22:00 -
[38] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I don't know, I think Pokey did the baseline fits but tentatively it looks like the Cal UHAV will have up to roughly 11,749 EHP. current alpha if I recall that's 7.72 Forge gun shots, so 8 shots to solo. Don't miss.
the gallente will float around 12,706 EHP 5.94 shots with the IAFG. so 6 shots with an anti-armor weapon. But that makes sense. the cal UHAV should be more resistant.
the Caldari MBT will take 4.80 shots, so 5 shots solo. the Gallente MBT 4.22 shots, so still 5 shots.
that's with current. Bear in mind this is a rough guesstimate based on an extrapolation. This is pure crystal balling, so take it as a theory, not expectation of fact.
If modules are addressed then the guesswork changes.
but tentatively the EHP stuff is looking fairly good. I won't know more until Rattati actually finishes, but I'm fairly sure you can see why I'm against adding alpha to AV in most cases.
Swarms are another ball of weird. I can't even begin to guess how well they will do, but my gut says overkill.
these rough ballparks are assuming max proto vs. max proto.
Of course, keeping TTK the same even with a "super awesome maximum heavy tank." The thing should have 15,000 base armor.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2994
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Posted - 2015.02.16 18:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
It kinda is your fault for losing tanks in the redline chasing red tanks back to it. But you know I agree on AV. It relentlessly pounds the ever loving hell out of any and all vehicles, rendering them useless and powerless to take on enemy vehicles.
Why have vehicles if AV does it cheaper and better? Why use vehicles at all?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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