DUST Search - CCP and the CPM failed hard

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

Spkr4theDead wrote:

General Mosquito wrote:

Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:

So I have been flying dropships for 2 days. And the CPM and CCP should be ashamed of themselves. Me included. I apologize to pilots. I let you down. The ADS is useless. We can't even make a tank scared now. My missiles fire so slowly i'm just a noise in the air, nothing more. We tried to show the evidence to CCP, we tried to manage balance but the anti vehicles guys could not let their lack of experience and knowledge stop them from sticking their ignorant fingers into the mix.

Killing a Milita dropship in a proto ship is a 5 minute fight. Killing tanks is impossible unless they forget the redline exists. Round two; gloves off.

You killed tanks, which gave your precious dropships free reign.

What did you think was going to happen?

LOL Thank you for that. He had railgun range cut in half, insanely mostly by himself.

Yeah, because being able to kill vehicles being delivered into the enemy redline from the safety of your own redline was stupid.

You could literally destroy anything you chose to anywhere on the map without being at risk whatsoever.

I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim

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Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5352	Posted - 2014.10.28 12:24:00 - [181] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: So I have been flying dropships for 2 days. And the CPM and CCP should be ashamed of themselves. Me included. I apologize to pilots. I let you down. The ADS is useless. We can't even make a tank scared now. My missiles fire so slowly i'm just a noise in the air, nothing more. We tried to show the evidence to CCP, we tried to manage balance but the anti vehicles guys could not let their lack of experience and knowledge stop them from sticking their ignorant fingers into the mix. Killing a Milita dropship in a proto ship is a 5 minute fight. Killing tanks is impossible unless they forget the redline exists. Round two; gloves off. You killed tanks, which gave your precious dropships free reign. What did you think was going to happen? LOL Thank you for that. He had railgun range cut in half, insanely mostly by himself. Yeah, because being able to kill vehicles being delivered into the enemy redline from the safety of your own redline was stupid. You could literally destroy anything you chose to anywhere on the map without being at risk whatsoever. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1244	Posted - 2014.10.28 12:48:00 - [182] - Quote [quote=Judge Rhadamanthus]If you think A good job was done with the Tank, the ADS and the AV then speak up. I think It sucks. Show me why it does not.[/quote Show me why it does. What does balance look like to you? What kdr or spawn/kill ratio should ADS pilots average?Tankers? AVers? Or what metric should we be looking at? To me they should all fare similarly , what we had was pilots being nigh invincible and claiming they deserved it because of SP and ISK expenditure. I am still pretty sure that 10 swarms are lost for every ADS at a minimum, so how is that imbalanced against ADS? Because, that's why.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17531	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:35:00 - [183] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: [quote=Judge Rhadamanthus]If you think A good job was done with the Tank, the ADS and the AV then speak up. I think It sucks. Show me why it does not.[/quote Show me why it does. What does balance look like to you? What kdr or spawn/kill ratio should ADS pilots average?Tankers? AVers? Or what metric should we be looking at? To me they should all fare similarly , what we had was pilots being nigh invincible and claiming they deserved it because of SP and ISK expenditure. I am still pretty sure that 10 swarms are lost for every ADS at a minimum, so how is that imbalanced against ADS? 10? more like 100. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Hynox Xitio 0uter.Heaven 1739	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:40:00 - [184] - Quote Absolution is imminent. Eliminate all vehicles. I won't scatter your sorrow to the heartless fogwogglers. ( -íº -£-û -íº) /)
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2247	Posted - 2014.10.28 19:53:00 - [185] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: So I have been flying dropships for 2 days. And the CPM and CCP should be ashamed of themselves. Me included. I apologize to pilots. I let you down. The ADS is useless. We can't even make a tank scared now. My missiles fire so slowly i'm just a noise in the air, nothing more. We tried to show the evidence to CCP, we tried to manage balance but the anti vehicles guys could not let their lack of experience and knowledge stop them from sticking their ignorant fingers into the mix. Killing a Milita dropship in a proto ship is a 5 minute fight. Killing tanks is impossible unless they forget the redline exists. Round two; gloves off. You killed tanks, which gave your precious dropships free reign. What did you think was going to happen? LOL Thank you for that. He had railgun range cut in half, insanely mostly by himself. Yeah, because being able to kill vehicles being delivered into the enemy redline from the safety of your own redline was stupid. You could literally destroy anything you chose to anywhere on the map without being at risk whatsoever. There's plenty of maps that are longer than 600m. I'm not a redline camper. You're thinking of other people. What do you have against vehicles anyway? Why are you so concerned about an AV turret anyway? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2935	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:27:00 - [186] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: [quote=Judge Rhadamanthus]If you think A good job was done with the Tank, the ADS and the AV then speak up. I think It sucks. Show me why it does not.[/quote Show me why it does. What does balance look like to you? What kdr or spawn/kill ratio should ADS pilots average?Tankers? AVers? Or what metric should we be looking at? To me they should all fare similarly , what we had was pilots being nigh invincible and claiming they deserved it because of SP and ISK expenditure. I am still pretty sure that 10 swarms are lost for every ADS at a minimum, so how is that imbalanced against ADS? 10? more like 100. 100? How about we look at some real figures. Pulling numbers from your bottom is useless. Dropships in this build need to maintain a 43.2 kdr compared to the equivilent SP based Swarm with a 3.6 KDR. KDR alone as a balance tool is for people who have a pre-school understanding of balance tools Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4410	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:31:00 - [187] - Quote Nothing in this game should ever "maintain" a KDR of 43. Ever. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2935	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:35:00 - [188] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Nothing in this game should ever "maintain" a KDR of 43. Ever. Interesting point. how many kills per game then, for a dropship over 20 games is a 43 KDR? And how does that compare based on kills and P and L to a Swarmer? Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4410	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:37:00 - [189] - Quote No consumable item fielded in this game should ever survive 20 games. Ever. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4260	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:39:00 - [190] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Nothing in this game should ever "maintain" a KDR of 43. Ever. Seconded. My advice to you, playa...

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2935	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:43:00 - [191] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: No consumable item fielded in this game should ever survive 20 games. Ever. I said over 20 games as kdr.... what has that got to do with lasting 20 games without a death? that would not be a 43 kdr. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4412	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:52:00 - [192] - Quote Okay, let me ask you, how many kills and deaths do you expect with a well-balanced ADS in the course of a single match? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2935	Posted - 2014.10.28 21:54:00 - [193] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Okay, let me ask you, how many kills and deaths do you expect with a well-balanced ADS in the course of a single match? It can only be compared to other classes. you cannot look at the ADS alone. Ill drop the math into a video for those who are struggling with this Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2930	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:07:00 - [194] - Quote Well, I guess I need to draw up a necro bump. Now tell me this Soraya, why should I skill level 5 ROF if it's not going to, mathematically, help me in any way. And just for fun, I'd like you to put yourself in our shoes. Let's say you're wanting to become a pilot, and you just unearthed an old alt with 15 mil SP in it. Tell me exactly what you'd invest in for your ADS and dropsuit, and I will tell you exactly how you killed your team. Also, if you could tell me which skills you'd go into first, and at what levels, that'd be great. R&B gets more kinky with every album Still rocking ADS
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4413	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:09:00 - [195] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Now tell me this Soraya, why should I skill level 5 ROF if it's not going to, mathematically, help me in any way. No other skill bonus in the game was offering a monumental 50% buff. That was crazy. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2930	Posted - 2014.10.28 22:53:00 - [196] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Now tell me this Soraya, why should I skill level 5 ROF if it's not going to, mathematically, help me in any way. No other skill bonus in the game was offering a monumental 50% buff. That was crazy. i put a link in my previous comment which should say my exact answer. but the problem here now is you did not answer my question. why should i, or any aspiring pilot, go level 5 ROF? R&B gets more kinky with every album Still rocking ADS
Juno Tristan Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 122	Posted - 2014.10.28 23:19:00 - [197] - Quote Pilots are subject to strong survival of the fittest mechanics as there are no 'basic' ADS Dropships and if you can't go games without losing a Dropship then you can't run them (unless you have deep pockets) Whereas I can run lolswarms starter fit, grief pilots all game and still turn a profit
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13900	Posted - 2014.10.28 23:40:00 - [198] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Pilots are subject to strong survival of the fittest mechanics as there are no 'basic' ADS Dropships and if you can't go games without losing a Dropship then you can't run them (unless you have deep pockets) Whereas I can run lolswarms starter fit, grief pilots all game and still turn a profit That's about right I think. Even a Prototype AV fit only costs roughly 300,000 ISK. Tanks I run are well over 700,000 ISK. Roughly costing me 824975 ISK a pop excluding the costs of my dropsuits which are reasonably minimal (considering I picked up the Templar sets for roughly 1.3 Billion ISK) "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
General Mosquito Kinsho Swords Caldari State 17	Posted - 2014.10.28 23:49:00 - [199] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: So I have been flying dropships for 2 days. And the CPM and CCP should be ashamed of themselves. Me included. I apologize to pilots. I let you down. The ADS is useless. We can't even make a tank scared now. My missiles fire so slowly i'm just a noise in the air, nothing more. We tried to show the evidence to CCP, we tried to manage balance but the anti vehicles guys could not let their lack of experience and knowledge stop them from sticking their ignorant fingers into the mix. Killing a Milita dropship in a proto ship is a 5 minute fight. Killing tanks is impossible unless they forget the redline exists. Round two; gloves off. You killed tanks, which gave your precious dropships free reign. What did you think was going to happen? LOL Thank you for that. He had railgun range cut in half, insanely mostly by himself. Yeah, because being able to kill vehicles being delivered into the enemy redline from the safety of your own redline was stupid. You could literally destroy anything you chose to anywhere on the map without being at risk whatsoever. You clearly don't know what 600m is. General Butt Naked - Biomassed The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned Only 9 more alts to go.
Hakyou Brutor Capital Acquisitions LLC 1466	Posted - 2014.10.28 23:54:00 - [200] - Quote Cool. Look at them tanks while you're here too.

DarthPlagueis TheWise 154	Posted - 2014.10.28 23:57:00 - [201] - Quote just sell shiny purple quafe dropships. problem solved destiny sux
handkerchief guy Ametat Security 9	Posted - 2014.10.29 10:04:00 - [202] - Quote [Data Insights] Assault Dropships Not yet? driving incubus under the influence
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17541	Posted - 2014.10.29 11:31:00 - [203] - Quote Why the only thing I have EVER encountered in my entire gaming in the past with a similar KDR in theory was an Aim Bot in Call of Duty 2 and that I did manage to kill middle of his reload and luckily cover penetration bullets were not a thing yet. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 842	Posted - 2014.10.29 12:15:00 - [204] - Quote I've brought it up in other balance threads: ISK is generally perceived as not wanted as a balance mechanic. ISK cost limits the sustainability of ADSs (even post-Delta, though now HAVs are actually more expensive when similarly fitted.) What it boils down to is either: ISK is a balance factor such that more expensive gear is more powerful (PRO equipment is a prime example - it is flat out superior than the lower tiers, and has an appropriately high cost attached) ISK is not a balance factor and so nothing should cost more than 1 ISK, ever. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4435	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:13:00 - [205] - Quote Kallas, the point is, ISK cannot be a justification to buff a thing. Because that is not balance. You can set the ISK price based on power and effectiveness, but that is the afterthought. The balance must be from how it plays in the game. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1476	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:18:00 - [206] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Kallas, the point is, ISK cannot be a justification to buff a thing. Because that is not balance. You can set the ISK price based on power and effectiveness, but that is the afterthought. The balance must be from how it plays in the game. It either is or it isn't Soraya. You're flip-flopping on the issue. If 'consumables' are designed to make people go deeply isk-negative in a match should they lose them, they should certainly be powerful. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4440	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:35:00 - [207] - Quote The game has to be balanced independently of ISK. Then you set the ISK rate to fit the effectiveness of things afterwards. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 842	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:40:00 - [208] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Kallas, the point is, ISK cannot be a justification to buff a thing. Because that is not balance. You can set the ISK price based on power and effectiveness, but that is the afterthought. The balance must be from how it plays in the game. It either is or it isn't Soraya. You're flip-flopping on the issue. If 'consumables' are designed to make people go deeply isk-negative in a match should they lose them, they should certainly be powerful. If 'consumables' have a skill tree roughly 4x more expensive than infantry they should not only be able to play their chosen role in every match and have it be at least some use, but they should also be able to go isk positive while playing it. I have serious issues with the fact that you think vehicles should be warpoint pi+¦ata's or taxi's. Exactly, thank you MINA. Either ISK is or isn't a balancing factor, it's that simple. Considering EVE's philosophy and the inherited state we have, ISK evidently is supposed to be a balancing point. If ISK is a factor, then the more expensive an item, the more powerful it is, relative to others of its ilk: a plate that gives more armour is more expensive; a gun that kills better is more expensive. That's not to say balance cannot be achieved, but ISK is a part of that balance: even with Delta, losing a single dropship means ISK negativity unless you earn 300+ thousand ISK in a battle. So Soraya, a simple yes or no question: is ISK a balancing factor? Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4440	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:42:00 - [209] - Quote I've answered your question already. ISK is not a balancing factor. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2934	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:07:00 - [210] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I've answered your question already. ISK is not a balancing factor. well, you didn't answer mine. R&B gets more kinky with every album Still rocking ADS



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