| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Juno Tristan
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
125
   |
Posted - 2014.10.29 21:05:00 -
[241] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:I've answered your question already. ISK is not a balancing factor.
proto suits are not balanced against militia on power, they are balanced on isk |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
844
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 21:10:00 -
[242] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:As Derpty and Derrith have been talking about, the ROF bonus is extremely expensive and yet provides a very limited bonus to actual effectiveness. Again, this is by design. Look at infantry skills which offer 3% reload rate increase. Some of the fitting optimization skills require two ranks just go get you 1 PG back. High-tier skills are extremely expensive and provide a very limited bonus. This is by design game-wide, but the ADS RoF bonus was a broken exception to the rule.
The ADS skills are the equivalent of Dropsuit skills. No dropsuit skill is as expensive for as small a bonus (well, not at the moment: the AmScout used to be) but you think it's ok for ADSs?
All Assaults get fitting on Light, Sidearm and Grenades as well as a weapon operation benefit.
Sentinels get fitting on Heavy and resistance bonuses.
Scouts gain fitting on Cloaks and EWar bonuses.
Commandos get a plain damage buff and a reload speed buff.
Logistics get fitting on Equipment and a bonus to the racial equipment.
ADS get spare ammunition and ROF.
Spare Ammunition: a minimal buff, pretty much akin to the fitting bonuses, except worse because it doesn't open any otherwise unavailable fittings. Without a change, the vehicle turrets have plenty of ammo for reasonably extended engagements. Not an amazing bonus, but it's also not the primary bonus.
ROF: extra DPS. Sounds great, but comes with the minor drawback of also forcing an earlier reload. Applying your damage quicker is great, except the bonus is...mediocre.
Python, empties clip in 9.6s: Max skill, empties in 8.16s - 2.48mil SP for 1.44s
Incubus, overheat by 8th shot: Max skill, overheat by 9th shot - 2.48mil SP for 1 extra shot.
ADS skill: extra damage - great, actually worthwhile and applies to all ADSs? Definitely worthwhile.
Essentially, why bother with the racial ADS skill? The ADS skill is the same as a dropsuit; the racial skill is an entire SP load on top of it that costs even more - why is it worthless?
You say that high level skills provide limited bonuses, but that doesn't apply to the Dropsuit Command skills, which universally provide potent, role defining bonuses. ROF bonus too high? Yeah, fine that's fair enough. But the ROF bonus as is is awful; an actually useful bonus to turret operation would be vastly more preferable.
If you want to look at bias,I suggest that you have a look at the various threads that pilots have put up: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2394970
Does that look reasonable to you? What we, ADS pilots, need are useful bonuses that enable us to apply our damage in the manner that Rattati declared: strafing runs. Without high ROF or compressed damage output, we need the turrets to be able to do that and our skills to give bonuses to the operation of those turrets.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
|
Juno Tristan
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
125
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 21:11:00 -
[243] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:No, it doesn't run counter to anything I've said. You simply aren't comprehending what I am explaining.
I will try one more time.
You can base ISK cost on effectiveness. You cannot base effectiveness on ISK cost.
I get what you're saying, you don't want an 300k death machine but a 50k points pinata |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
601
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 21:50:00 -
[244] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:@ Derp, ROF is for helping you kill, this is true. but in this repect, it also helps you survive. case in point, two people are in battle, both weapons do the same damage, and their builds are the same, but one persons ROF is a little better. who wins?
but on to my point. i'm not asking for a higher raw ROF for turrets, i'm asking that our ROF per level be noticeable for it's (not 10%, don't get your panties in a bunch).
on movement, the only place i've been able to accurately factor that in is ADS vs maddy, and that's because of the back and forth technique (buys min 4 seconds), so not really. and the problem i have there is missiles is anti armor, and max ROF can't break the rep cycles of dropsuits/tanks. we're only a threat to idiot tankers.
and on you not having any sort of need to devote yourself to a role, am i the only the one with an issue on this? not trying to criticize, but not needing to devote yourself to a role is kind of stupid to me.
My point on movement was actually based on the path of the dropship + where you can possibly position the sight along that flight path against the running/wobbling/bunnyhopping of infantry, where by I have personally had moments where a shot just a fraction of a second earlier would have hit the target, but I couldn't so I had to move round and wait a little while longer allowing the infantry guy time to run to cover or even for some av/tank/whatever to start shooting.
point being 10%, 15%, 50% or even 2%... No matter the number there will always be something to gain no matter how small or even unnoticeable it may seem.
Now this is a bonus that doesn't fit with any dropsuit, the dropsuit bonus is comparable to the ads bonus of 2% small turret damage.
Personally I'd suggest making this a racial turret fitting bonus for getting more turrets on. This is because to get any fitting bonus currently as an ads pilot, you have to waste time on small turret proficiency, which does absolutely jack for anyone...
Although if it worked would be nice for the gunners (who wouldn't have to waste their time on the racial ads bonus, this should get refunded especially for those people who have been forced to spec into multiple things they don't need just to get bonuses required for their dedicated position.)
Rep Maddys are a bane to a pilot for sure, but they aren't quite what they used to be, a forge gunner or another tanker will rip them to shreds now, I'm not 100% sure, but if you hit the weak spot enoughand/or fit a damage mod (crazy I know because swarms are bullshit if you don't currently use specific fits) it might actually drop.
I know most of the Madruga's I see don't fit full reps and take quite a bit of killing from any source (but can be killed.) Shield tanks on the other hand are easy pickings if they don't make use of maneuverability. |
Admiral James Kirk
Rippers Taco Shack
33
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 19:44:00 -
[245] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:I've answered your question already. ISK is not a balancing factor. proto suits are not balanced against militia on power, they are balanced on isk
I agree.
The alt of Deadly Aztec
|
Eruditus 920
Nemo Malus Felix
908
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 20:50:00 -
[246] - Quote
Admiral James Kirk wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:I've answered your question already. ISK is not a balancing factor. proto suits are not balanced against militia on power, they are balanced on isk I agree.
You bumped a month dead thread to say "I agree"??
"Stay gold, Ponyboy..."
|
Riptalis
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
105
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 21:17:00 -
[247] - Quote
I think another major issue with ADS is the huge amount of SP you invest into it. You can invest so much SP into the ADS and still get ridiculously suppressed all the time or even get destroyed in a matter of seconds. Tanks get suppressed too but it takes a lot less SP to be effective in the game.
This is just one of the many other issues with ADS. Even issues that started since the beginning have still not been looked at.
Python pilot
|
Admiral James Kirk
Rippers Taco Shack
33
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 21:26:00 -
[248] - Quote
Eruditus 920 wrote:Admiral James Kirk wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:I've answered your question already. ISK is not a balancing factor. proto suits are not balanced against militia on power, they are balanced on isk I agree. You bumped a month dead thread to say "I agree"??
How else am I supposed to let Juno know that I agree with his statement?
The alt of Deadly Aztec
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |