So I have been flying dropships for 2 days. And the CPM and CCP should be ashamed of themselves. Me included. I apologize to pilots. I let you down. The ADS is useless. We can't even make a tank scared now. My missiles fire so slowly i'm just a noise in the air, nothing more. We tried to show the evidence to CCP, we tried to manage balance but the anti vehicles guys could not let their lack of experience and knowledge stop them from sticking their ignorant fingers into the mix.

Killing a Milita dropship in a proto ship is a 5 minute fight. Killing tanks is impossible unless they forget the redline exists. Round two; gloves off.

Just to let you know, and this is from personal experience, KB/M does not grant additional turning speeds on any of the large turrets however it does allow you to turn faster when on foot @ high sensitivity.

At least in my tanks, on a grounded large installation etc... the turn speed is the same as with DS3. Actually you could argue KB/M is slower as even on high sensitivity I have to keep dragging my mouse back and forth across the desk to even do a half turn lol.

Also different suit sizes have different turn speeds, something you might not notice with DS3. Scouts can turn real fast, heavies actually cannot turn as fast as a scout for instance, the difference is quite noticeable with KB/M.

I also believe a higher sensitivity option should be available for controller users should they want it.

You killed tanks, which gave your precious dropships free reign.

What did you think was going to happen?

So I have been flying dropships for 2 days. And the CPM and CCP should be ashamed of themselves. Me included. I apologize to pilots. I let you down. The ADS is useless. We can't even make a tank scared now. My missiles fire so slowly i'm just a noise in the air, nothing more. We tried to show the evidence to CCP, we tried to manage balance but the anti vehicles guys could not let their lack of experience and knowledge stop them from sticking their ignorant fingers into the mix.

Killing a Milita dropship in a proto ship is a 5 minute fight. Killing tanks is impossible unless they forget the redline exists. Round two; gloves off.

LMAO, what happened???? you were so pro to all the changes after I stated the downfall when the nerfs began.I don't mind any changes, but someone posted a video on how investing points into the RoF bonus hindered the incubus because it increased the rate of heating lowing the amount of shots on the rail before overheating. Never confirmed if it was true but the video looks legit.

A lot of righteous indignation from a CPM member who was AWAL when he was needed most.

Rattati needed to change the bonus because having a turret fire 50% faster on one platform than any other made it too difficult to balance, as balancing small turrets on HAVGÇÖs, LAVGÇÖs, and standard Dropships would make them OP on ADS; and balancing them on ADS would make them UP on other platforms. He was not able to get any constructive feedback from the ADS community, so he overnerfed them to insure that he would get plenty of feedback for the next balance pass.

So fare his strategy seems to be working. I have seen a lot more analysis and creative ideas out of the ADS community since. Now that you are back, maybe you can coordinate all that and come up with a proper fix.

. . . did any of you see Rattati's "post Delta Dropships" post?

Python is very strong.
Myron sucks
Grimsnes is good
Incubus is alright.

"something" needs to change on the Incubus.
Myron needs a few tweaks.

Either way, you'll never find a pilot with maxed out turrets destroying less isk than the cost of their ship

You should have spearheaded sniping the way I honestly thought you were going to.

Iron Wolf Saber should never have been re-elected.

The range nerf, over the top headshot damage, almost nothing base damage increases, and random unalterable unasked for sight changes to the sniper rifles, not to mention clip size tom'fuckery. Have got me really upset. This isn't the same game anymore. I can't have a drink relax and snipe to my hearts content when I'm constantly being choked by invisible lines. Giving even more of the people on the map "god mode from snipers".

The one thing that hasn't changed is snipers being nerfed.

Sniping with 10% damage mods, and 600m range. Bring it back!

(giving back old sniping spots will not remedy this situation)



I hate to say it, but now you know how the sniper community feels. Your bread and butter has been put somewhere between niche and useless. Good luck fixing the mediocrity that was your favorite thing and main reason for staying with Dust 514.

Honestly speaking, like in most threads you open your mouth in, you don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about Za'ki. Assault dropships were never 'god mode'. Pilots who could pull insane KDR's with dropships were either some of the very best pilots around, or they were exploiting a bug.

I can tell you don't know what you're talking about, because you seem to think that the 'anti-vehicle' dropship that was the incubus is in a good state when it *cannot kill anything with the weapons it actually has a bonus to even with all level 5 skills*. You get SEVEN shots off with a level 5 incubus, which isn't enough to drop the shields on most other vehicles. Of course you wouldn't know this because you've never ****ing been in a vehicle.

Vehicles currently have an even higher skillpoint investment than infantry and significantly higher base cost per 'life' (and the average lifespan of a vehicle is about four minutes - for two to four matches worth of isk) for significantly less options or depth than an infantry player with comparable skillpoint investment. It has seemingly been decided by people who don't use vehicles that their role should be solely anti-vehicle, when they aren't being a WP pi+¦ata for infantry.

The absurd KDR's were mostly rarity for vehicles - people may scream LOUDLY about tanks and dropships getting 20-30 kills... but when a proto infantry player does it? Nothing is said at all - and I guarantee you it is *far* more common to get absurd scores as an infantry player than it is as a vehicle specialist.

This. I can easily pull that in my level 2 basic Gallente sentinel using basic HMGs and not even stack plates to do so. The same cannot be said for my vehicles, and I'm an above average pilot. However the two are mutually exclusive. I don't use heavies in vehicles and I find that exploit deplorable.

You should have spearheaded sniping the way I honestly thought you were going to.

Iron Wolf Saber should never have been re-elected.

The range nerf, over the top headshot damage, almost nothing base damage increases, and random unalterable unasked for sight changes to the sniper rifles, not to mention clip size tom'fuckery. Have got me really upset. This isn't the same game anymore. I can't have a drink relax and snipe to my hearts content when I'm constantly being choked by invisible lines. Giving even more of the people on the map "god mode from snipers".

The one thing that hasn't changed is snipers being nerfed.

Sniping with 10% damage mods, and 600m range. Bring it back!

(giving back old sniping spots will not remedy this situation)



I hate to say it, but now you know how the sniper community feels. Your bread and butter has been put somewhere between niche and useless. Good luck fixing the mediocrity that was your favorite thing and main reason for staying with Dust 514.

Honestly speaking, like in most threads you open your mouth in, you don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about Za'ki..

See? We told you. This is what it's like to get bent over. Only, think of it for 2 years running, many times over.

I really hope you've learned your lesson.

Okay spark, I logged in just to reply to this. Shut up, you know nothing of pain and hardship. Tankers have had it pretty easy since the start. There is a reason why every dropship pilots mortal enemy is a lamp post, I don't expect you to understand this as you have never had to deal with something as horrible as loosing hundreads of thousands of isk to gently tapping something.

Judge, I am concerned by this post and I will be logging in to dust either later today or tomorrow to try these changes first hand. If my role of troop transport has been hampered to the point it is unviable then I will post so here, as that would be serious.

Rather than increase the RoF bonus, I think that Missile turrets should have their own RoF looked at, since they weren't really a threat on anything but an ADS before, and now can only hit people that are oblivious to the fact that they're getting shot at.

Personally, I would also like to see Turret variants brought back into the game. While the current missiles seem reasonable for killing infantry given that in most cases you can drop a suit in one shot, they are completely worthless against vehicles. A higher RoF missile with very little splash damage could help the Python be useful against vehicles again.


However, I would like to point out that the Incubus with a Small Railgun suddenly feels amazing. Even with the bonus reduced so far, the changes made to Small Rails mean that I can drop a Soma in a single magazine, and I've been working on improving my aim so I can go back to killing tanks.

I'm talking about your militia comment obviously and if you have such an investment then why mention militia.?. , like your trying to make some type of point of comparison , that's what I'm talking about .

An ADS pilot should be invincible in a one on one with a single AV unless they risk death , they have a much greater advantage in mobility if their skilled like you mentioned but also like you mentioned , it should depend upon the skill and weapon used by each .

Why risk death when you already have a tactical advantage ?

That would just be greedy and foolish when I'm sure as a pilot , there are many targets that would need the same amount of attention that would have been given to that one player and would prove to be of more value .

Okay spark, I logged in just to reply to this. Shut up, you know nothing of pain and hardship. Tankers have had it pretty easy since the start. There is a reason why every dropship pilots mortal enemy is a lamp post, I don't expect you to understand this as you have never had to deal with something as horrible as loosing hundreads of thousands of isk to gently tapping something.

Judge, I am concerned by this post and I will be logging in to dust either later today or tomorrow to try these changes first hand. If my role of troop transport has been hampered to the point it is unviable then I will post so here, as that would be serious.

A lot of righteous indignation from a CPM member who was AWAL when he was needed most.

Rattati needed to change the bonus because having a turret fire 50% faster on one platform than any other made it too difficult to balance, as balancing small turrets on HAVGÇÖs, LAVGÇÖs, and standard Dropships would make them OP on ADS; and balancing them on ADS would make them UP on other platforms. He was not able to get any constructive feedback from the ADS community, so he overnerfed them to insure that he would get plenty of feedback for the next balance pass.

So fare his strategy seems to be working. I have seen a lot more analysis and creative ideas out of the ADS community since. Now that you are back, maybe you can coordinate all that and come up with a proper fix.

#118Posted: 2014.09.23 00:37 | Report | Edited by: CCP Rattati
32
Alena Ventrallis wrote:
Where was discussion on such a huge Nerf to ADS ROF?


The decision was mine and mine alone, a 50% increase in DPS is unprecedented progression of damage in the game, and makes it impossible to balance.

Everything about the python is completely fine.

Incubus rails overheating too fast needs to be fixed.

Skill multiplier for dropship ROF needs to be dramatically decreased to make it worthwhile.

Collisions between dropships need to be looked at.

Swarms need a change to their mechanics to make them more powerful, but require skill instead of fire and forget.

For clarification: On the ROF Rattati announced himself he asked no one about feedback, not pilots, and not the CPM. The ROF reduction was announced in the google doc sheet on Hotfix delta. Rattati announced this in defense of Soraya Xel, who foolishily showed up to troll in the first thread about the unnanouced nerf .




Pilot feedback has been the same pre-delta and post-delta, but Rattati was going to buff swarms in delta regardless of what anybody said, Pre-delta feedback on swarms wasn't going to happen. And what pilots pre delta said about the swarms and ROF came true.

- Every swarm missile fired will hit. Pilots cannot lose swarms around buildings or terrain.
- Anything fit with less then Proto modules will die in three shots. Three shots will always hit even with afterburner.
- Buffing swarms will not affect the power ADS have over infantry.
- 2.2 million SP ROF skill is nearly identical to 0 SP ROF skill. Currently it is worthless.
- AV role of dropships is impacted severely, to the point where the only ADS turret that is viable is a missile.
- Swarms do not crash into buildings, nor do they hit terrain.

Swarmies hiting DS if DS is in open space.
Swarmies still hitting structures.
DSs can still fly away from them by smart using of enviroment.

We should still have that stamped in head DS is still armed taxi, its Drop..Ship
Honestly i thing about bonuses from "maybe upcoming" pilot suits.
And about racial variants of vehicles, ships and its weapons.
That the other thingie (hell we even saw DS with repair beans).

I things are fine overall.
DS was ridiclously OP, it was like flying angel of death before nerf and i agree with nerf.
From other side of the virtual coin, there is something what i want to highlight.
I do agree here with skilling on to swarms.
There should be bigger and perceptible gap between what is skilled swarmies and what is basicaly mlt. without any skill.
But hell thats just tinking

Im for vehicles and for their pure roles on battlefield, but im against unbalanced thingies and OPs aswell

Well, if dropships are merly taxis, then why isn't the SP and Isk investment reflective of that? Ignoring turrets, a surviavble dropship is still a multi-million SP invesment, without the individual gains.

The KDR will always be higher than a dropsuit because 1) The investment is not undertaken by a wide spectrum of players. Every body has a dropsuit, but not everybody flies, and certainly not many people fly combat. your are measuring the KDR of wide range of players compared to the KD of very few

2) the very expense of flying compared to the payout makes going it prohibitive to pull out multiple ships in a single match. the majority of Pilots cannot afford to loose 3 or four ships a match. Going 5-0, 10-0 is a much more sucessful than 20-3, compared to an infantry suit.


3) Keeping a dropship alive over the course of several matches is paramount. If i go 10-0, 8-1, 11-0 over three matches in each individual match i will have gotten a positive KD but a low scoring match, a poor second match, and still go isk negative but over time it looks like i have gone 29-1 and it looks op.