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Team Balancing with Solo Players and The Lack of Team Play

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Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4723	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:27:00 - [1] - Quote I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time). A few things I think could improve the situation: 1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly. There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved. It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1847	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:31:00 - [2] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time). A few things I think could improve the situation: 1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly. There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved. It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches. Agreed. Thor and I were in a squad that got stomped for 10 games in a row last night. Every match we entered hopeful played extremely hard only to realize our teamates had given up 2 minutes in leaving the enemy to focus all 16 of their players on us. It was brutal. Something needs to be done to encourage more team play and actually trying to win. Now with more evil.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3678	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:33:00 - [3] - Quote Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2156	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:33:00 - [4] - Quote Bump match size to 18v18 have 3 squads on either side and autoload them? Only question then is how do you decide who is SL? "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3143	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:44:00 - [5] - Quote I'd just drop and squad I was allocated to. If I must suffer the presence of pubbies in my squad they will be pubbies of my choosing.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2156	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:48:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I'd just drop and squad I was allocated to. If I must suffer the presence of pubbies in my squad they will be pubbies of my choosing. What if dropping squad dropped you out of the match? "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3679	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:49:00 - [7] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I'd just drop and squad I was allocated to. If I must suffer the presence of pubbies in my squad they will be pubbies of my choosing. What if dropping squad dropped you out of the match? Isn't that treating players poorly? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3145	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:51:00 - [8] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I'd just drop and squad I was allocated to. If I must suffer the presence of pubbies in my squad they will be pubbies of my choosing. What if dropping squad dropped you out of the match? Forcibly inflicting me upon unsuspecting pubbie squads has been classified as a war crime in all four empires, prosecutable by CONCORD and punishable by death.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4725	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:51:00 - [9] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. You can still play solo. There's just an off chance that those solo players could accumulate enough points for an orbital as well as the other benefits of squad play such as shared scans and being able to enter a vehicle sooner. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4725	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:53:00 - [10] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Sandbox without a sandbox, economic factors without an actual market. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2156	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:55:00 - [11] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I'd just drop and squad I was allocated to. If I must suffer the presence of pubbies in my squad they will be pubbies of my choosing. What if dropping squad dropped you out of the match? Isn't that treating players poorly? I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". I mean, it isn't like you can't start a squad (invite people or be happy with who the servers ally with you) or join one from the finder (only join squads led by people you enjoy playing with or keep joining them until you find a squad you can stomach). It isn't like there aren't tools there to help you refrain from being put into a squad with random "pubbies", if you're not going to use them then don't complain. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3683	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:55:00 - [12] - Quote I don't think the possibility of an orbital issued to an arbitrary solo player is a justifiable reason to force soloers to squad. Entering a vehicle sooner is more a sign of a systemic problem with vehicle locking being a thing. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4725	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:55:00 - [13] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Bump match size to 18v18 have 3 squads on either side and autoload them? Only question then is how do you decide who is SL? Completely random I'd guess Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4726	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:01:00 - [14] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I don't think the possibility of an orbital issued to an arbitrary solo player is a justifiable reason to force soloers to squad. Entering a vehicle sooner is more a sign of a systemic problem with vehicle locking being a thing. There would be literally ZERO difference in the solo derping players experience other than seeing some green dudes and a circle instead of all blue dudes and no circle. I don't see how this negatively affects them in any way. If they wanted to leave squad they could. However it COULD possibly lead some players to embrace the team style of play and that would be a good thing for Dust. If you don't see that then I'm sorry that I voted for you. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4726	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:03:00 - [15] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time). A few things I think could improve the situation: 1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly. There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved. It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches. Agreed. Thor and I were in a squad that got stomped for 10 games in a row last night. Every match we entered hopeful played extremely hard only to realize our teamates had given up 2 minutes in leaving the enemy to focus all 16 of their players on us. It was brutal. Something needs to be done to encourage more team play and actually trying to win. Before you joined there was a match where only one player managed more than 100 WP outside of our squad (it got 230 or something like that). This tells me that they are new players. New players that might benefit from seeing the positive effects of being in a squad. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3147	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:06:00 - [16] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". I mean, it isn't like you can't start a squad (invite people or be happy with who the servers ally with you) or join one from the finder (only join squads led by people you enjoy playing with or keep joining them until you find a squad you can stomach). It isn't like there aren't tools there to help you refrain from being put into a squad with random "pubbies", if you're not going to use them then don't complain. Most players are idiot olympic gold winners. There is no advantage to playing with most and bluntly 9 out of 10 times I am deeply occupied putting vehicle drivers and ADS pilots in their proper place (in the grave) to give a rippling crap what the redt of you are doing. You take points, kill people, whatever. My AV mission keeping that crap off your asses won't be assisted by listening to a bunch of idiot mouth-breathers go full nerdrage when someone manages to gank them. So no. Take your forced squad idea and put it elsewhere. If it becomes a thing I'll just make a squad and lock it and STILL fly solo.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4726	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:10:00 - [17] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". I mean, it isn't like you can't start a squad (invite people or be happy with who the servers ally with you) or join one from the finder (only join squads led by people you enjoy playing with or keep joining them until you find a squad you can stomach). It isn't like there aren't tools there to help you refrain from being put into a squad with random "pubbies", if you're not going to use them then don't complain. Most players are idiot olympic gold winners. There is no advantage to playing with most and bluntly 9 out of 10 times I am deeply occupied putting vehicle drivers and ADS pilots in their proper place (in the grave) to give a rippling crap what the redt of you are doing. You take points, kill people, whatever. My AV mission keeping that crap off your asses won't be assisted by listening to a bunch of idiot mouth-breathers go full nerdrage when someone manages to gank them. So no. Take your forced squad idea and put it elsewhere. If it becomes a thing I'll just make a squad and lock it and STILL fly solo. I fail to see how it would affect you negatively. You could leave the defend order on yourself and accumulated enough WP for an OB. Then you could get off by waiting in the screen for an RDV to be dropped and take it out along with the vehicle and the person(s) waiting for it. You could disable voice and never even have to listen to anyone. However your efforts would be compounded. Hell maybe one of the squad members would take note of your efforts and wish to replicate it. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3686	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:15:00 - [18] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". So, if say, 50% of players were playing DUST solo (I actually have no idea what the number on this would be, CCP hasn't told me, and I couldn't tell you if I knew.), you would say CCP should tell that 50% of it's playerbase to eff off and go play a different game? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2156	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:17:00 - [19] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". I mean, it isn't like you can't start a squad (invite people or be happy with who the servers ally with you) or join one from the finder (only join squads led by people you enjoy playing with or keep joining them until you find a squad you can stomach). It isn't like there aren't tools there to help you refrain from being put into a squad with random "pubbies", if you're not going to use them then don't complain. Most players are idiot olympic gold winners. There is no advantage to playing with most and bluntly 9 out of 10 times I am deeply occupied putting vehicle drivers and ADS pilots in their proper place (in the grave) to give a rippling crap what the redt of you are doing. You take points, kill people, whatever. My AV mission keeping that crap off your asses won't be assisted by listening to a bunch of idiot mouth-breathers go full nerdrage when someone manages to gank them. So no. Take your forced squad idea and put it elsewhere. If it becomes a thing I'll just make a squad and lock it and STILL fly solo. i would imagine that if they implemented the idea as I described, they would remove the ability to lock a squad (or allow the server to override that lock to place players for the match). I would tend to agree with you honestly though. I generally run solo, doing my own thing, however, I also am usually a team player even when running solo. I also think I see this idea as being good to the overall health of the game rather than a detriment to my own personal solo playstyle. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2158	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:22:00 - [20] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". So, if say, 50% of players were playing DUST solo (I actually have no idea what the number on this would be, CCP hasn't told me, and I couldn't tell you if I knew.), you would say CCP should tell that 50% of it's playerbase to eff off and go play a different game? I'd say >50% of the playerbase cries for respecs (or has) and CCP consistently tells them to "eff off and go play a different game". Hell, they've even basically added that to the login page (not giving them out, don't bother asking). There is also the thought that if this were to be implemented, there would be nothing stopping CCP from adding a solo only game mode (or version of each game mode). "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3149	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:24:00 - [21] - Quote I will make the lives of everone who squads with me hell if I am not allowed to dictate who I wish to play with.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4727	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:26:00 - [22] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". So, if say, 50% of players were playing DUST solo (I actually have no idea what the number on this would be, CCP hasn't told me, and I couldn't tell you if I knew.), you would say CCP should tell that 50% of it's playerbase to eff off and go play a different game? I'd say >50% of the playerbase cries for respecs (or has) and CCP consistently tells them to "eff off and go play a different game". Hell, they've even basically added that to the login page (not giving them out, don't bother asking). There is also the thought that if this were to be implemented, there would be nothing stopping CCP from adding a solo only game mode (or version of each game mode). I'd LOVE it if regular ambush was no squad, no vehicle solo play. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4728	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:32:00 - [23] - Quote This game went from me pleading to get a cheaper low risk team deploy option to prepare for planetary conquest to me just wishing some of the droves of solo players could automatically be thrown into squads to perhaps nudge them toward team play. How much further does the team play aspect need to erode before someone throws it a bone? Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2158	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:36:00 - [24] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". So, if say, 50% of players were playing DUST solo (I actually have no idea what the number on this would be, CCP hasn't told me, and I couldn't tell you if I knew.), you would say CCP should tell that 50% of it's playerbase to eff off and go play a different game? I'd say >50% of the playerbase cries for respecs (or has) and CCP consistently tells them to "eff off and go play a different game". Hell, they've even basically added that to the login page (not giving them out, don't bother asking). There is also the thought that if this were to be implemented, there would be nothing stopping CCP from adding a solo only game mode (or version of each game mode). I'd LOVE it if regular ambush was no squad, no vehicle solo play. Yeah, that would be cool, just a bunch of guys competing for Alpha Predator. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2158	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:39:00 - [25] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I will make the lives of everone who squads with me hell if I am not allowed to dictate who I wish to play with. The thing is, you can still dictate who you play with, squad with alliance mates/corpies or find a tolerable squad in the squad finder. Either way you are dictating who you play with with the only restriction being that you must play with 5 other people in squad with you. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4728	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:45:00 - [26] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I will make the lives of everone who squads with me hell if I am not allowed to dictate who I wish to play with. The thing is, you can still dictate who you play with, squad with alliance mates/corpies or find a tolerable squad in the squad finder. Either way you are dictating who you play with, with the only restriction being that you must play with 5 other people in squad with you. I think that preventing leaving squad in the warbarge or in game could have some implications in PC. People DC and you have to bring people in or someone changes roles and switches squad mid battle. To me even if only 20% of players stayed in the squad they were thrown into it would be a win. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2158	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:51:00 - [27] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I will make the lives of everone who squads with me hell if I am not allowed to dictate who I wish to play with. The thing is, you can still dictate who you play with, squad with alliance mates/corpies or find a tolerable squad in the squad finder. Either way you are dictating who you play with, with the only restriction being that you must play with 5 other people in squad with you. I think that preventing leaving squad in the warbarge or in game could have some implications in PC. People DC and you have to bring people in or someone changes roles and switches squad mid battle. To me even if only 20% of players stayed in the squad they were thrown into it would be a win. lolPC is a totally different beast from the pubs I am talking about. I could see this working in FW too, though lolPC is intended to be totally player directed so it would make sense to have the exception present there if you ask me. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 3152	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:52:00 - [28] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I don't think the possibility of an orbital issued to an arbitrary solo player is a justifiable reason to force soloers to squad. Entering a vehicle sooner is more a sign of a systemic problem with vehicle locking being a thing. Because having teammates steal hundreds of thousands of ISK in assets to lose it in 2 minutes promotes team play Tanker/Logi/Assault
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4728	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:56:00 - [29] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I will make the lives of everone who squads with me hell if I am not allowed to dictate who I wish to play with. The thing is, you can still dictate who you play with, squad with alliance mates/corpies or find a tolerable squad in the squad finder. Either way you are dictating who you play with, with the only restriction being that you must play with 5 other people in squad with you. I think that preventing leaving squad in the warbarge or in game could have some implications in PC. People DC and you have to bring people in or someone changes roles and switches squad mid battle. To me even if only 20% of players stayed in the squad they were thrown into it would be a win. lolPC is a totally different beast from the pubs I am talking about. I could see this working in FW too, though lolPC is intended to be totally player directed so it would make sense to have the exception present there if you ask me. The only reason that I brought up PC, is that changing the ability to leave squad in a pub is likely to affect the ability to leave squad in PC. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1311	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:21:00 - [30] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I don't think the possibility of an orbital issued to an arbitrary solo player is a justifiable reason to force soloers to squad. Entering a vehicle sooner is more a sign of a systemic problem with vehicle locking being a thing. There would be literally ZERO difference in the solo derping players experience other than seeing some green dudes and a circle instead of all blue dudes and no circle. I don't see how this negatively affects them in any way. If they wanted to leave squad they could. However it COULD possibly lead some players to embrace the team style of play and that would be a good thing for Dust. If you don't see that then I'm sorry that I voted for you. Being in a squad doesn't necessary mean more effective play - the use of comms, and through communication the ability to coordinate and focus as a squad on given goals and objectives (cover my hack, bro!, etc.) is invaluable and 6 random soloers thrown into a squad wouldn't help that. I've hopped into existing squads in FW only to find they were all randoms, likely having squadded through squad finder, and none had mics active. All of them went their own way as soon as the match started (which is fine if it's an all scout squad, but not with heavies and logis and such. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3155	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:22:00 - [31] - Quote I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4728	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:28:00 - [32] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I don't think the possibility of an orbital issued to an arbitrary solo player is a justifiable reason to force soloers to squad. Entering a vehicle sooner is more a sign of a systemic problem with vehicle locking being a thing. There would be literally ZERO difference in the solo derping players experience other than seeing some green dudes and a circle instead of all blue dudes and no circle. I don't see how this negatively affects them in any way. If they wanted to leave squad they could. However it COULD possibly lead some players to embrace the team style of play and that would be a good thing for Dust. If you don't see that then I'm sorry that I voted for you. Being in a squad doesn't necessary mean more effective play - the use of comms, and through communication the ability to coordinate and focus as a squad on given goals and objectives (cover my hack, bro!, etc.) is invaluable and 6 random soloers thrown into a squad wouldn't help that. I've hopped into existing squads in FW only to find they were all randoms, likely having squadded through squad finder, and none had mics active. All of them went their own way as soon as the match started (which is fine if it's an all scout squad, but not with heavies and logis and such. I'm not saying that it will solve everything. I think something like this could potentially direct someone toward using team work. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:30:00 - [33] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. You've made that clear. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3156	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:32:00 - [34] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'm not saying that it will solve everything. I think something like this could potentially direct someone toward using team work. Teamwork is undermined by people thinking KDR matters. Teamwork is undermined by people thinking that they are the hero on the battlefield. Teamwork is undermined when half the team is in scout suits. Teamwork is undermined by the lack of anything resembling a tutorial. Teamwork is undermined by the realization that the people you are trying to coordinate are idiots and your repeated statements of "Don't charge the Amarr Sentinel with the HMG" get ignored over and over.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 211	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:34:00 - [35] - Quote My solution to the problem created by your fix make squad lock squad deploy alone :) no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 211	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:36:00 - [36] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. +1 I'm with this guy..There will just be 12 squad leaders ona side no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:37:00 - [37] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'm not saying that it will solve everything. I think something like this could potentially direct someone toward using team work. Teamwork is undermined by people thinking KDR matters. Teamwork is undermined by people thinking that they are the hero on the battlefield. Teamwork is undermined when half the team is in scout suits. Teamwork is undermined by the lack of anything resembling a tutorial. Teamwork is undermined by the realization that the people you are trying to coordinate are idiots and your repeated statements of "Don't charge the Amarr Sentinel with the HMG" get ignored over and over. So do nothing? Watch one of the greatest attributes of Dust continue to deteriorate? Basically right now you have COD with a fraction of the team actually participating in the gameplay design and the remaining derping around doing whatever they please. The major difference in COD is that you don't have disposable items each time you die. They either need to incentivize teamwork and winning matches or they need to remove ISK and SP and embrace the lobby shooter completely. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2158	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:38:00 - [38] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'm not saying that it will solve everything. I think something like this could potentially direct someone toward using team work. Teamwork is undermined by people thinking KDR matters. Teamwork is undermined by people thinking that they are the hero on the battlefield. Teamwork is undermined when half the team is in scout suits. Teamwork is undermined by the lack of anything resembling a tutorial. Teamwork is undermined by the realization that the people you are trying to coordinate are idiots and your repeated statements of "Don't charge the Amarr Sentinel with the HMG" get ignored over and over. So do nothing? Watch one of the greatest attributes of Dust continue to deteriorate? Basically right now you have COD with a fraction of the team actually participating in the gameplay design and the remaining derping around doing whatever they please. The major difference in COD is that you don't have disposable items each time you die. They either need to incentivize teamwork and winning matches or they need to remove ISK and SP and embrace the lobby shooter completely. ^This is the root of the problem "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:39:00 - [39] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. +1 I'm with this guy..There will just be 12 squad leaders ona side It wasn't that way during beta Right now it's pointless to start a squad if solo because there isn't enough time in the warbarge to squad up. But most people stayed in random squads to accumulate WPs for OBs. I remember people yelling at the squad leader to drop the OB. No telling how many people learned how to drop OBs this way. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3160	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:40:00 - [40] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: They either need to incentivize teamwork and winning matches this is the first thing you have said that I agree with. Teamwork needs to be incentivized for it to become a thing. Forcing it will only **** people off. There is no incentive to be in a team. there is no incentive to win because match payouts are pretty much the same no matter how good you do. Win/lose the pay is the same. Why take risks? Meanwhile I'll be merrily torching every vehicle that tries to come into play.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:45:00 - [41] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: They either need to incentivize teamwork and winning matches this is the first thing you have said that I agree with. Teamwork needs to be incentivized for it to become a thing. Forcing it will only ** people off. There is no incentive to be in a team. there is no incentive to win because match payouts are pretty much the same no matter how good you do. Win/lose the pay is the same. Why take risks? Meanwhile I'll be merrily torching every vehicle that tries to come into play. My proposal is only meant to group up the droves of solo players and noobs. I don't see anything in any of my proposals that is forcing anything on anyone. You could simply leave squad in the warbarge. That can't be that much of an annoyance. Level 4 Forum Warrior** PSN: wbrom42
Haerr Legio DXIV 1458	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:46:00 - [42] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. ^ This. +1 I'll play how ever I want to play. Lol around // tryhard // solo // squad, which ever way I feel like.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:47:00 - [43] - Quote Haerr wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. ^ This. +1 I'll play how ever I want to play. Lol around // tryhard // solo // squad, which ever way I feel like. FFS dude, you'd simply just have to leave squad. It was this way in beta Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3690	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:48:00 - [44] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: There is also the thought that if this were to be implemented, there would be nothing stopping CCP from adding a solo only game mode (or version of each game mode). There's a lot stopping the creation of a solo only game mode. Development time and a client patch. Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'd LOVE it if regular ambush was no squad, no vehicle solo play. I'd love it too. Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Because having teammates steal hundreds of thousands of ISK in assets to lose it in 2 minutes promotes team play The issue that even squad members have to wait to join me in my LAV, critically delaying my ability to get out there and go, is a huge crippling thing. Your unwillingness to share your toys nor manage them properly isn't a great excuse for that. The vehicle lock is massively crippling to experience, and I feel sad for the blueberries jumping near my car every time I have to leave them behind. Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. Very much this. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Haerr Legio DXIV 1459	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:56:00 - [45] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Haerr wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. ^ This. +1 I'll play how ever I want to play. Lol around // tryhard // solo // squad, which ever way I feel like. FFS dude, you'd simply just have to leave squad. It was this way in beta FFS dude, you'd simply just have to join squad. (If you want too.)
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4732	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:00:00 - [46] - Quote Haerr wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Haerr wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. ^ This. +1 I'll play how ever I want to play. Lol around // tryhard // solo // squad, which ever way I feel like. FFS dude, you'd simply just have to leave squad. It was this way in beta FFS dude, you'd simply just have to join squad. (If you want too.) But that's not happening. It's not happening via squad finder and it's not happening in the war barge because there isn't time. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
xAckie Ghost. Mob 453	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:05:00 - [47] - Quote squad number should be reduced to 4 to reflect 16. 6 made sense when CCP was hoping to get 24v 24 which never happened.
Haerr Legio DXIV 1459	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:06:00 - [48] - Quote Hold on, will we still be allowed to make locked 1 man squads?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4732	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:12:00 - [49] - Quote Haerr wrote: Hold on, will we still be allowed to make locked 1 man squads? Sure, it's just a default thing so people might accidentally start to use team work. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4362	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:24:00 - [50] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) I have been saying this for a long time now. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5212	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:26:00 - [51] - Quote xAckie wrote: squad number should be reduced to 4 ^ This. I believe it'd also help with matchmaking and team building. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4362	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:35:00 - [52] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Not to mention the fact that if 6 experienced players are running solo and end up on the same team they will know what needs to be done and work together as a team even when they are not in the same squad. Not all blueberries are created equal. You put guys from Fatal Assentation, Ancient Exiles, and Molon Lobe on the same team and they will work together. You jam a bunch of new or casual players into the same squad and they will run around like a bunch of decapitated chickens. Painting the Blue dots Green does not change anything. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4734	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:38:00 - [53] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Not to mention the fact that if 6 experienced players are running solo and end up on the same team they will know what needs to be done and work together as a team even when they are not in the same squad. Not all blueberries are created equal. You put guys from Fatal Assentation, Ancient Exiles, and Molon Lobe on the same team and they will work together. You jam a bunch of new or casual players into the same squad and they will run around like a bunch of decapitated chickens. Painting the Blue dots Green does not change anything. But that's no different from what happens now. If a bunch of randoms earn and drop an orbital that would be cool right? Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 151	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:42:00 - [54] - Quote In a game specifically design for team based play, i thought it was ridiculous they even got rid of that system of auto-team deploy. The game doesn't explain this aspect of itself AT ALL. You would never realize from academy or any tutorial how everything comes together in this game, so no one will realize the important of teamwork until they've already probably committed to this game somewhat to explore and learn more. Most people will still be figuring out the market, suit, gear, stats, and how to make it all fit together, before they give any thought to how to actually encounter a match to win. This is one of the major reasons people feel like such blue berries in this game - they aren't guided enough. With squads pre-deployed for those not already in one Should be available option for solo play, a switch in option to turn off auto squadding that would mean at those who care enough to try can use what advantages being in a squad gives without bashing there heads waiting for a decent squad in squad finder. auto squading would make the squad search system give the game even more of an edge over competition, in this day in age any option is better then none.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4362	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:44:00 - [55] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Not to mention the fact that if 6 experienced players are running solo and end up on the same team they will know what needs to be done and work together as a team even when they are not in the same squad. Not all blueberries are created equal. You put guys from Fatal Assentation, Ancient Exiles, and Molon Lobe on the same team and they will work together. You jam a bunch of new or casual players into the same squad and they will run around like a bunch of decapitated chickens. Painting the Blue dots Green does not change anything. But that's no different from what happens now. If a bunch of randoms earn and drop an orbital that would be cool right? If they donGÇÖt know enough to form their own squad, what makes you think they would know enough to drop an Orbital? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4735	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:47:00 - [56] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Not to mention the fact that if 6 experienced players are running solo and end up on the same team they will know what needs to be done and work together as a team even when they are not in the same squad. Not all blueberries are created equal. You put guys from Fatal Assentation, Ancient Exiles, and Molon Lobe on the same team and they will work together. You jam a bunch of new or casual players into the same squad and they will run around like a bunch of decapitated chickens. Painting the Blue dots Green does not change anything. But that's no different from what happens now. If a bunch of randoms earn and drop an orbital that would be cool right? If they donGÇÖt know enough to form their own squad, what makes you think they would know enough to drop an Orbital? Read Sota's post just above yours. He captures what I've been eluding to much better than I've been able to. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 344	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:49:00 - [57] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. So are we supposed to notice that the other ten players gave up, and report to the McCain to wait? I notice battles are tons better when a squad of us get an additional 3 to 4 man squad! If we're facing a 16 with 2 full squads in it solo players usually only help the enemy team?! "Anybody order chaos?"
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4738	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:51:00 - [58] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. So are we supposed to notice that the other ten players gave up, and report to the McCain to wait? I notice battles are tons better when a squad of us get an additional 3 to 4 man squad! If we're facing a 16 with 2 full squads in it solo players usually only help the enemy team?! It's strange because he'll be one of the first to admit that the NPE is poor, yet here is a way to BY DEFAULT, introduce one of Dust's greatest attributes to a new player. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 152	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:58:00 - [59] - Quote There's several strange arguments in here, kinda making me scratch my head at your reasonings. Firstly: What game have you played when you're in a team and certain team mates are a different color you don't automatically realize what's going on? Most people will grasp quick that it means teamwork is employed in this game, and it will show-case to people to explore this route more aggressively then if they were just put in solo play. And seeing how focused Dust is on this subject, it's imperative Dust does everything it can to bring people together, to an extent. And auto-placing people is a great method. You can reason it out by saying TTK in this game makes this FPS experience closer to an MMO experience, as you'll be doing actual gun fights with others - so teamwork will shine light the sun in a dark sky. MMO's are all about concentrate fire on important targets - Dust is much the same. Secondly: The importance of class choice is really shown when you decide where to place your SP to benefit a team rather then yourself. Forcing people into squads means a certain type of player, logistical, one who has suffered for over a year now, can more easily enjoy his role without needing others or waiting for a squad to form. As well as other roles, such as Scout, Sniper, LAV Pilot, DS, and AV. Slayers have always had it too easy in this game, being able to pretty much do a little of everything and being able to survive solo for it - other classes don't have it so easy, and believe it or not, heave is one of them.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3703	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:59:00 - [60] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: If we're facing a 16 with 2 full squads in it solo players usually only help the enemy team?! And here's the problem. Here's why this idea is dumb and doesn't solve it. Right now, matchmaking has been fixed to avoid these imbalances. But Thor's system would reintroduce the imbalance, by putting everyone, competent or not, in squads together. Breaking the ability to use squad organization as a useful matchmaking flag. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4738	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:01:00 - [61] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: If we're facing a 16 with 2 full squads in it solo players usually only help the enemy team?! And here's the problem. Here's why this idea is dumb and doesn't solve it. Right now, matchmaking has been fixed to avoid these imbalances. But Thor's system would reintroduce the imbalance, by putting everyone, competent or not, in squads together. Breaking the ability to use squad organization as a useful matchmaking flag. It would take the same group of players that were queue'd in, then balanced, then throw them in a squad. I don't see the issue. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4738	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:04:00 - [62] - Quote SoTa Senpai wrote: There's several strange arguments in here, kinda making me scratch my head at your reasonings. Firstly: What game have you played when you're in a team and certain team mates are a different color you don't automatically realize what's going on? Most people will grasp quick that it means teamwork is employed in this game, and it will show-case to people to explore this route more aggressively then if they were just put in solo play. And seeing how focused Dust is on this subject, it's imperative Dust does everything it can to bring people together, to an extent. And auto-placing people is a great method. You can reason it out by saying TTK in this game makes this FPS experience closer to an MMO experience, as you'll be doing actual gun fights with others - so teamwork will shine light like the sun in a dark sky. MMO's are all about concentrate fire on important targets - Dust is much the same. Secondly: The importance of class choice is really shown when you decide where to place your SP to benefit a team rather then yourself. Forcing people into squads means a certain type of player, logistical, one who has suffered for over a year now, can more easily enjoy his role without needing others or waiting for a squad to form. As well as other roles, such as Scout, Sniper, LAV Pilot, DS, and AV. Slayers have always had it too easy in this game, being able to pretty much do a little of everything and being able to survive solo for it - other classes don't have it so easy, and believe it or not, heave is one of them. Soraya soak some of this up and quit trying to argue for the sake of arguing. This would actually be a good thing for new players and a good thing for Dust. Arguing against this is just silly. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:04:00 - [63] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: If we're facing a 16 with 2 full squads in it solo players usually only help the enemy team?! And here's the problem. Here's why this idea is dumb and doesn't solve it. Right now, matchmaking has been fixed to avoid these imbalances. But Thor's system would reintroduce the imbalance, by putting everyone, competent or not, in squads together. Breaking the ability to use squad organization as a useful matchmaking flag. How? What exactly is the formula for the match making system? Because as it stands, it's still broken, and has been broken even when we had a population to back it in open beta. Thors system improves NPE and potentially gives Blue Berries reasons to get good. Your argument sounds more like CCP told you it would be too much work to re-program anything.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3703	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:07:00 - [64] - Quote Thor, I don't agree that a good thing for DUST is to take your personal preference and auto-apply it to everyone. I'm sorry, we're not going to see eye to eye on this one. SirManBoy would probably be all over this though. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4738	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:10:00 - [65] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor, I don't agree that a good thing for DUST is to take your personal preference and auto-apply it to everyone. I'm sorry, we're not going to see eye to eye on this one. SirManBoy would probably be all over this though. Explain how it's bad. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:10:00 - [66] - Quote Soraya - go talk to CCP and ask them if it's possible to add more parameters to the match making system, as in, you know, add in that solo players will get grouped up, so add that to the function? You know, cause, programming, is, you know, creative? I don't understand how this is hard. Are you telling me they can make a burning tree on PC but they can't add parameters to match making? And instead of saying no to Thor - how about take Thors ideas and think of a better way to bring people together? Because that's all he's trying to accomplish - help get people out of blue berry status faster through teamwork rather then gear grind.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4738	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:13:00 - [67] - Quote SoTa Senpai wrote: Soraya - go talk to CCP and ask them if it's possible to add more parameters to the match making system, as in, you know, add in that solo players will get grouped up, so add that to the function? You know, cause, programming, is, you know, creative? I don't understand how this is hard. Are you telling me they can make a burning tree on PC but they can't add parameters to match making? He assumes that all the new players that enter the game want to play solo apparently. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:16:00 - [68] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: SoTa Senpai wrote: Soraya - go talk to CCP and ask them if it's possible to add more parameters to the match making system, as in, you know, add in that solo players will get grouped up, so add that to the function? You know, cause, programming, is, you know, creative? I don't understand how this is hard. Are you telling me they can make a burning tree on PC but they can't add parameters to match making? He assumes that all the new players that enter the game want to play solo apparently. and your assuming people want the full Dust experience in a mostly casual game. But Soraya's views really do seem to be CCP sucky sucky like. Your concept at it's core is what they need to look at - not necessarily how you wanted to implement it. This is why current CPM is bad :)
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3704	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:23:00 - [69] - Quote SoTa Senpai wrote: and your assuming people want the full Dust experience in a mostly casual game. This. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1766	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:27:00 - [70] - Quote As long as the initial part of being solo and finding a game stays the same, the team balancing is then done as per usual and then and only then this new squad system puts people into squads, I honestly don't see how this could be in any way bad. Players can at any point leave the squad if they are 'anti-squad' for any reason and at the end of the battle it might get people talking with one and other. I honestly think the problem is the lack of the game enforcing in your mind from day one that co-ordinated team work is the most powerful weapon. I mean as it stands now, does the game even mention and explain squads to new players? What you can do with them, defend orders etc... orbitals etc...? "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!

SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:27:00 - [71] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: SoTa Senpai wrote: and your assuming people want the full Dust experience in a mostly casual game. This. It will remain nothing but casual if we stick with your reasoning - there is a competitive and cut-throat side of this game that isn't show-cased EVEN IN THE SLIGHTEST. that is a HUGE concern for this game, and you CPM should be all over fixing the NPE to include PC talks and incentive to be more then casual.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4739	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:29:00 - [72] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: SoTa Senpai wrote: and your assuming people want the full Dust experience in a mostly casual game. This. Then what is the point? Why worry about ISK or SP? Just unlock all the stuff and let everyone derp around all day. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3704	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:29:00 - [73] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Players can at any point leave the squad if they are 'anti-squad' for any reason and at the end of the battle it might get people talking with one and other. So, players like myself should be forced to, every match, pause to go into the chat window, find the squad chat thing, and leave squad? I can tell you I'd find that annoying. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 155	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:31:00 - [74] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Players can at any point leave the squad if they are 'anti-squad' for any reason and at the end of the battle it might get people talking with one and other. So, players like myself should be forced to, every match, pause to go into the chat window, find the squad chat thing, and leave squad? I can tell you I'd find that annoying. On the opposite side, if I want a squad as a new player, I'd have to go hunt one down that may never deploy, or make one that no one may show up too. I wonder which is more annoying?
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1767	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:31:00 - [75] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Players can at any point leave the squad if they are 'anti-squad' for any reason and at the end of the battle it might get people talking with one and other. So, players like myself should be forced to, every match, pause to go into the chat window, find the squad chat thing, and leave squad? I can tell you I'd find that annoying. Not at all, you can begin your own squad and lock it, keeping yourself solo. OR you could take a very very minor inconvenience and maybe even get some of these new guys in a squad to maybe talk to them a little and help them out. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3706	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:33:00 - [76] - Quote SoTa Senpai wrote: It will remain nothing but casual if we stick with your reasoning - there is a competitive and cut-throat side of this game that isn't show-cased EVEN IN THE SLIGHTEST. that is a HUGE concern for this game, and you CPM should be all over fixing the NPE to include PC talks and incentive to be more then casual. PC is inherently unfixable, IMHO. I'd definitely like to see FacWar play out as a much more hardcore and much more profitable institution though. NPE in general, is a very high priority, and easing the ability to collaborate with others is important. This is not the way to do it. We have a squad finder that does this. It's very prominent, right next to the instant battle button. If anything, I'd love to fix voice settings to default on, so that new players don't have to monkey in settings to be able to hear people. So when they DO choose to join a squad, it works well. And they can turn voice off if they need to. (On the other hand, if you auto-squad people, having voice on by default would be really really annoying.) But forcing people into squads is wrong. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4739	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:34:00 - [77] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: SoTa Senpai wrote: It will remain nothing but casual if we stick with your reasoning - there is a competitive and cut-throat side of this game that isn't show-cased EVEN IN THE SLIGHTEST. that is a HUGE concern for this game, and you CPM should be all over fixing the NPE to include PC talks and incentive to be more then casual. PC is inherently unfixable, IMHO. I'd definitely like to see FacWar play out as a much more hardcore and much more profitable institution though. NPE in general, is a very high priority, and easing the ability to collaborate with others is important. This is not the way to do it. We have a squad finder that does this. It's very prominent, right next to the instant battle button. If anything, I'd love to fix voice settings to default on, so that new players don't have to monkey in settings to be able to hear people. So when they DO choose to join a squad, it works well. And they can turn voice off if they need to. (On the other hand, if you auto-squad people, having voice on by default would be really really annoying.) But forcing people into squads is wrong. Well hopefully CCP thinks you are a stupid as you are showing to be here. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3706	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:36:00 - [78] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Well hopefully CCP thinks you are a stupid as you are showing to be here. Maybe we can talk when you're done having your tantrum. The whole "last word, drop mic, and block on Skype" thing was real mature. ;) As I already told you, SirManBoy is a CPM member who would probably be all for this. But I'm not going to support a design that I feel is abusive to player choice. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 156	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:41:00 - [79] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: SoTa Senpai wrote: It will remain nothing but casual if we stick with your reasoning - there is a competitive and cut-throat side of this game that isn't show-cased EVEN IN THE SLIGHTEST. that is a HUGE concern for this game, and you CPM should be all over fixing the NPE to include PC talks and incentive to be more then casual. PC is inherently unfixable, IMHO. I'd definitely like to see FacWar play out as a much more hardcore and much more profitable institution though. NPE in general, is a very high priority, and easing the ability to collaborate with others is important. This is not the way to do it. We have a squad finder that does this. It's very prominent, right next to the instant battle button. If anything, I'd love to fix voice settings to default on, so that new players don't have to monkey in settings to be able to hear people. So when they DO choose to join a squad, it works well. And they can turn voice off if they need to. (On the other hand, if you auto-squad people, having voice on by default would be really really annoying.) But forcing people into squads is wrong. It doesn't have to be forced, if you can program in the auto-squad then putting in the option switch to turn it off is a few simple steps. I am quite sick of CCP saying what's not possible due to effort when they put all there effort into **** that doesn't matter, like LEGION. There's no telling if anything they do there will be compatible here, so if that project gets rejected like so-many-others-things-they've-done then it's just wasted effort. But asking for them to put in a flip switch in the game to massively improve convenience in the game for it's players that could lead to many other positive factors? WAAAAY too hard. Even when it's programming on a beginners level. So march back to CCP and have them explain to you exactly why these simple options are always out of reach for us - yet they have time to waste making a fourth game that's not even green lit. Because everywhere I see simple suggestions it's met with: "Can't do it cause CCP." How do you expect to fix NPE or accomplish anything with that stupid crap attitude?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4740	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:41:00 - [80] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Well hopefully CCP thinks you are a stupid as you are showing to be here. Maybe we can talk when you're done having your tantrum. The whole "last word, drop mic, and block on Skype" thing was real mature. ;) As I already told you, SirManBoy is a CPM member who would probably be all for this. But I'm not going to support a design that I feel is abusive to player choice. I'm fairly upset that one of our player representatives is showing his ass about something that would help new players more than any tutorial or squad finder. Squad finder is great for people in an corp or alliance, but many times the public finder has squads at the top that people jump in and out of because the squad leader is AFK. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3706	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:44:00 - [81] - Quote Thor, the problem is, you're assuming your view represents all players. And I specifically directed you to a CPM representative who would probably agree with you, and at best, be a better person to represent your view on the issue. More than once, in fact. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 156	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:45:00 - [82] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Well hopefully CCP thinks you are a stupid as you are showing to be here. Maybe we can talk when you're done having your tantrum. The whole "last word, drop mic, and block on Skype" thing was real mature. ;) As I already told you, SirManBoy is a CPM member who would probably be all for this. But I'm not going to support a design that I feel is abusive to player choice. I'm fairly upset that one of our player representatives is showing his ass about something that would help new players more than any tutorial or squad finder. Squad finder is great for people in an corp or alliance, but many times the public finder has squads at the top that people jump in and out of because the squad leader is AFK. I think it's best just to ignore Soraya - it's obvious his posts are meant to incite rather then involve. He doesn't care for PC or asking CCP to do anything that requires effort and he's made that very clear. So any effort to bring players to a more competitive crowd he is going to be against. We have another Zatara, folks. Great, we put in another puppet as CPM.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4740	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:46:00 - [83] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor, the problem is, you're assuming your view represents all players. And I specifically directed you to a CPM representative who would probably agree with you, and at best, be a better person to represent the issue. More than once, in fact. I know how SMB feels on the issue, I don't need to ask him about stuff like this. He sees the beauty of team play in Dust and the fact that it's one of the main things that sets Dust apart from other FPS. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3706	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:48:00 - [84] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I know how SMB feels on the issue, I don't need to ask him about stuff like this. He sees the beauty of team play in Dust and the fact that it's one of the main things that sets Dust apart from other FPS. So ALL of the CPM members should represent Thor Odinson42's personal opinion then? And if they don't, you throw a tantrum, call them names, and then block them on Skype? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 156	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:49:00 - [85] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I know how SMB feels on the issue, I don't need to ask him about stuff like this. He sees the beauty of team play in Dust and the fact that it's one of the main things that sets Dust apart from other FPS. So ALL of the CPM members should represent Thor Odinson42's personal opinion then? And if they don't, you throw a tantrum, call them names, and then block them on Skype? LOL Grabs popcorn Soraya has a point btw, just because he's blind doesn't change who he is - but he's not being very observant of his position and what it means for a CPM to be posting the way he is in your thread.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4741	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:53:00 - [86] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I know how SMB feels on the issue, I don't need to ask him about stuff like this. He sees the beauty of team play in Dust and the fact that it's one of the main things that sets Dust apart from other FPS. So ALL of the CPM members should represent Thor Odinson42's personal opinion then? And if they don't, you throw a tantrum, call them names, and then block them on Skype? No, not at all. I don't find you to be a credible person to discuss this game with. Why would I stay in your channel and keep you as a contact? Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3709	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:54:00 - [87] - Quote I don't agree with you, so I'm not credible. Got it. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4741	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:55:00 - [88] - Quote SoTa Senpai wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I know how SMB feels on the issue, I don't need to ask him about stuff like this. He sees the beauty of team play in Dust and the fact that it's one of the main things that sets Dust apart from other FPS. So ALL of the CPM members should represent Thor Odinson42's personal opinion then? And if they don't, you throw a tantrum, call them names, and then block them on Skype? LOL Grabs popcorn Soraya has a point btw, just because he's blind doesn't change who he is - but he's not being very observant of his position and what it means for a CPM to be posting the way he is in your thread. No doubt, between this and the ADS thread I hope he enjoys his time. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Avinash Decker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 134	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:26:00 - [89] - Quote Most warfare/large scale battle games on the market has a automatically squad system, heavily intensives it, or makes very, very easy to get in a squad . Only in dust case as far as I know this doesn't really happen completely. Games like BF and PS has a auto squad system put into place so new and veteran players have a very easy way of coordinating between players , help new players to know what to do , and makes it very convenient because there are plenty of game play mechanics in those games that heavily rewards you for squad play and has game play mechanics that is built for squad play . Players usually will then become more accustomed to and start to naturally stick with there squad, supposedly. BF for example allows you to spawn on your teammates which means that you are more likely to get in the action quicker , so it is wise to get in a squad unless you want to walk a few hundred meters every time you die. You also get squad ribbons that gives you more points if your squad did well, bonus points, perks that can enhance the whole squad, special abilities etc . And how the classes work makes it very easy to support your team. It's pretty much the same way for Planetside 2. In Dust sometimes I check if anyone is in a squad and a lot of the time; more than half the team isn't even a squad . Even then, the ones that are in a squad doesn't have a full squad and/or are even good themselves.This game doesn't have the ability to see who is even talking or the ability to see the status of your squad on your hud like again most large scale warfare games do . I can see why players don't get into squads not much point besides the fact you get more coordination , but that's no different from other games since nearly every other shooter has a party/squad system.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3712	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:32:00 - [90] - Quote Avinash, would you consider DUST a large scale battle game? :) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2158	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:34:00 - [91] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Avinash, would you consider DUST a large scale battle game? :) So, Mr. CPM, are you saying that there is no potential whatsoever for Dust to become a "large scale battle game"? Is it possible or is that being saved for Project Legion too? "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 156	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:41:00 - [92] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Avinash, would you consider DUST a large scale battle game? :) So, Mr. CPM, are you saying that there is no potential whatsoever for Dust to become a "large scale battle game"? Is it possible or is that being saved for Project Legion too? You can expect 24 vs 24 at best for Legion. The servers stability isn't going to change switching from PS3 to PC, and they could barely handle 16 vs 16.
Avinash Decker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 134	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:43:00 - [93] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Avinash, would you consider DUST a large scale battle game? :) Compared to how most shooters have 12-18 maximum battles yes is is close to one or it is one . But let's say it isn't , it wouldn't change what I said doesn't matter what I label Dust or other games as it doesn't change the fact on how other games or similarly scaled games does their squad/party mechanics.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3712	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:44:00 - [94] - Quote Avinash, I'm pretty doubtful DUST will go above 16v16, personally. And between trying to shove more people in the game, and making the game perform better, at this point I'd prefer the latter. I have no idea what Legion's scale will look like, though I hope it's bigger than DUST's. Pretty sure the limitation on match size is client-based, SoTa. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Avinash Decker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 134	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:52:00 - [95] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Avinash, I'm pretty doubtful DUST will go above 16v16, personally. And between trying to shove more people in the game, and making the game perform better, at this point I'd prefer the latter. I have no idea what Legion's scale will look like, though I hope it's bigger than DUST's. Pretty sure the limitation on match size is client-based, SoTa. Did I say anything about increasing player size ? No I didn't . Stop focusing on an arbitrary label I gave and focus on the content I said about the issues that Dust conducts it's squading system and how some other games does it better or not. Like I said it doesn't matter if Dust is or isn't a large scale game what matters if the squad system is good enough for the game and how it helps the game in which I spend most of my original post talking about.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3714	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:03:00 - [96] - Quote Sorry, Avinash, I was responding to Alaika's question. You both have A-names. :/ There's definitely a lot of things the squad system could improve on. But not through hotfixes, more than likely. Particularly, I'd love for squads to be variable sized for different game modes, scaling all the way up to team deploy for some. But I personally think it should be a user choice to join a squad. When they make that choice, it should be as easy as possible. If there was a squad finder revision more like the Dungeon Finder in WoW, which simply grabbed a squad and threw you in a battle, and disbanded at the end of the match, as a more "instant Battle"-flavored version of the Squad Finder, I think that'd be pretty cool. I'd also like to see newbies not have as much difficulty enabling voice when they do choose to squad up. I think it should probably be turned on by default. (Explaining to newbs how to activate voice in text chat is a pain.) But I don't think we should decide to squad people for them. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 344	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:02:00 - [97] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I don't think the possibility of an orbital issued to an arbitrary solo player is a justifiable reason to force soloers to squad. Entering a vehicle sooner is more a sign of a systemic problem with vehicle locking being a thing. I hope you're bringing this here "vehicle locking" issue up to CCP? "Anybody order chaos?"
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3717	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:08:00 - [98] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: I hope you're bringing this here "vehicle locking" issue up to CCP? I remember noting it. Actually, my primary note was that squad members shouldn't be affected at all by the lock (if you squad with someone, you should be working with them), or that they should figure out how to let anyone get in the car as soon as the owner was in the driver's seat. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Omega Black Zero Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 121	Posted - 2014.09.25 23:01:00 - [99] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Actually, playing MAG, it would automatically squad you up You should at least have an option to Auto Squad, setting the highest SP count as squad leader and disband the squad at the end of the match when it's been completed I prefer to play solo because I'm playing on my time, sometimes I want to grind, sometimes I want to take a break, and forming a squad isn't really helpful to me in that manner. Having an Auto Squad option would give me more incentive to run with a squad for a match since I'm not interested in being "responsible" between matches.
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 601	Posted - 2014.09.25 23:45:00 - [100] - Quote Simple solution. Introduce an 'Auto Squad-Join' Toggle in Settings, and make it clear in the NPE and to current players, of its existence and purpose. If it is on, you will automatically be placed in squads upon deployment. If it is off, you will remain solo at all times unless you join a squad. However, inb4clientsideupdate. And since we know thats out of bounds at the moment, not so simple fix. Only Dust player with all Proto Weapons Prof 1. 19/19. Pilot, Slayer, Logibro, Heavy, Scout, Tanker, AV'er. Everything.

Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1855	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:42:00 - [101] - Quote There are an awful lot of people complaining about the idea of being automatically placed into squads saying it would ruin their experience but this is exactly what Mag did and not only did no one complain but it was great. In Mag you didn't have to be on comms if you didn't want. You didn't need to follow squad orders. You didn't need to engage with your team at all, but there were benefits for doing so in the way of increased XP. In Dust this would play out as increased SP which would directly translate into more SP growth for players working as a team. It wouldn't impinge upon your ability to tool around in anyway but would definitely encourage you to work with your squad. Now with more evil.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1169	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:12:00 - [102] - Quote Turning blue dots to green dots changes very little. However, there is nothing in the Academy in game tutorials that ever explains how squadding works or the benefits of squadding. Casual players won't ever figure it out. Being squadded as the default option is Ok if one can drop squad if they wish. Because, that's why.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:15:00 - [103] - Quote The problem with the squad finder is waiting for a random squad leader to get off the crapper, grab a snack, remember that he has a game going, and finally get around to joining the squad to a battle. I like to join quick and then see if there are squads with space available. Usually I leave the squad when the battle is over and repeat. I like the idea of random squad matching, how about making that an option? Option is checked, you are randomly assigned to a squad with other like minded people. Squad leader is randomly chosen from the squad members, and has the option of disbanding or retaining the squad when the battle is done. Don't force someone into a squad, that's just dumb. An uncooperative member is less helpful than a brand new member, leave the spot open for someone who wants to be there.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 588	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:31:00 - [104] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time). A few things I think could improve the situation: 1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly. There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved. It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches. Agreed. Thor and I were in a squad that got stomped for 10 games in a row last night. Every match we entered hopeful played extremely hard only to realize our teamates had given up 2 minutes in leaving the enemy to focus all 16 of their players on us. It was brutal. Something needs to be done to encourage more team play and actually trying to win. You can't make people squad. People feel more comfortable now soloing when they want to. It's now possible to solo without it sucking every time. That's a good thing. You're just as likely to be against the solo rabble as to have them dragging you down on your side. If you really want to be assured of going against organized squads, find another corp that is willing and play opposite factions in FW at the same time. I've been wanting to try that idea but haven't gotten around to it. It's pure gold if you can just find a willing opponent.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 344	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:20:00 - [105] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Avinash, would you consider DUST a large scale battle game? :) YES!!! It could totally be that if guys like you get out of the way of progress! CCP Rattati, get this guy out of here! "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 344	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:22:00 - [106] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Turning blue dots to green dots changes very little. However, there is nothing in the Academy in game tutorials that ever explains how squadding works or the benefits of squadding. Casual players won't ever figure it out. Being squadded as the default option is Ok if one can drop squad if they wish. Here we go! Idea, idea, idea!!! "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 344	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:25:00 - [107] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: There are an awful lot of people complaining about the idea of being automatically placed into squads saying it would ruin their experience but this is exactly what Mag did and not only did no one complain but it was great. In Mag you didn't have to be on comms if you didn't want. You didn't need to follow squad orders. You didn't need to engage with your team at all, but there were benefits for doing so in the way of increased XP. In Dust this would play out as increased SP which would directly translate into more SP growth for players working as a team. It wouldn't impinge upon your ability to tool around in anyway but would definitely encourage you to work with your squad. Most of these guys just like to troll noobs to pad kd. If everyone in-game started knowing what to do and where to be they couldn't kill solo players in the back. Everyone would be more organized. Isn't that a thought? Everyone, all 16, working in unison to win battles? "Anybody order chaos?"
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1873	Posted - 2014.09.26 17:03:00 - [108] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: There are an awful lot of people complaining about the idea of being automatically placed into squads saying it would ruin their experience but this is exactly what Mag did and not only did no one complain but it was great. In Mag you didn't have to be on comms if you didn't want. You didn't need to follow squad orders. You didn't need to engage with your team at all, but there were benefits for doing so in the way of increased XP. In Dust this would play out as increased SP which would directly translate into more SP growth for players working as a team. It wouldn't impinge upon your ability to tool around in anyway but would definitely encourage you to work with your squad. Most of these guys just like to troll noobs to pad kd. If everyone in-game started knowing what to do and where to be they couldn't kill solo players in the back. Everyone would be more organized. Isn't that a thought? Everyone, all 16, working in unison to win battles? This is what we used to have happen during closed beta. Even people who ran solo kept tabs on what their team mates were doing and tried to work with them. There has been a fundamental shift away from that since uprising began though which is the whole problem. Thor's proposal to automatically put people into squads would at least have the chance to boost team interaction, which could lead to better team work and thus better matches. A set of easy to follow, clear tutorials, that could not simply be clicked through, which explained team mechanics in Dust and their benefits, may have similar results. The down side of textual tutorials though is that they honestly get ignored. If this is the route CCP plans on taking I would make them reward based challenges to new players, there are already several of these in the NPE which do seem to help players learn the ropes. In this case players would be rewarded with SP for joining a squad via squad finder, starting a squad, issuing a squad order, etc. All of these little learn by doing tutorials could have the same effect as forcing squad membership. Unfortunately I don't think tutorials are the total solution. I really think that placing people into squads automatically, something done by many FPS games by the way, would in no way degrade the solo player experience but would greatly enhance the chance of team work. Squad play should be the default in this game, which is a tactical team based FPS. By making it the default CCP would normalize (think social norming theory here) team work, making its rewards more apparent, and helping each game feel more pitched and contested than they currently do. Now with more evil.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4749	Posted - 2014.09.26 22:00:00 - [109] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time). A few things I think could improve the situation: 1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly. There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved. It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches. Agreed. Thor and I were in a squad that got stomped for 10 games in a row last night. Every match we entered hopeful played extremely hard only to realize our teamates had given up 2 minutes in leaving the enemy to focus all 16 of their players on us. It was brutal. Something needs to be done to encourage more team play and actually trying to win. You can't make people squad. People feel more comfortable now soloing when they want to. It's now possible to solo without it sucking every time. That's a good thing. You're just as likely to be against the solo rabble as to have them dragging you down on your side. If you really want to be assured of going against organized squads, find another corp that is willing and play opposite factions in FW at the same time. I've been wanting to try that idea but haven't gotten around to it. It's pure gold if you can just find a willing opponent. This isn't meant to change behavior of veteran players who know what's going on. It would be great if that veteran player stayed in the squad to help accumulate 5000 WP, but it's not that big of a deal. As others have said here, by making squad the default option it highlights the squad/team aspects of Dust for a new player in their first Acadamy battle. The potential benefit to the game to me offsets any veteran's annoyance of seeing 5 green dots instead of 15 blue dots. It seems extremely petty for this to be the point of contention. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3231	Posted - 2014.09.26 22:21:00 - [110] - Quote considering when you don't force-assign voice to a channel, it autoconnects to squad/team by default? 90% of the time it's sudden, and they are raping my ears with idiocy. It's not selfish, it's sanity preservation. Also, I've yet to see a random collection of blue dots who pay attention to more than the first shiny that passes in front of them. I've given up on trying to teach random squads how to act in concert. It's like herding cats, only the cats would cooperate more.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4774	Posted - 2014.09.29 18:20:00 - [111] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: considering when you don't force-assign voice to a channel, it autoconnects to squad/team by default? 90% of the time it's sudden, and they are raping my ears with idiocy. It's not selfish, it's sanity preservation. Also, I've yet to see a random collection of blue dots who pay attention to more than the first shiny that passes in front of them. I've given up on trying to teach random squads how to act in concert. It's like herding cats, only the cats would cooperate more. It seems like you are warming up to the idea. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
matsumoto yuichi san The Elite Few Inc. The Methodical Alliance 54	Posted - 2014.09.29 18:43:00 - [112] - Quote I play solo most of the time, but that's mostly because i don't have a lot of time to sit around and find a squad and so on, and i only really enjoy the squadplay when it isn't randoms, so at least someone i have seen multiple times / played with before. but i always try and play to win, and support the team regardless
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1296	Posted - 2014.09.29 19:01:00 - [113] - Quote I really like this idea! Not just for the fact it gathers randoms into a group, but mainly because of what Thor points out -If it placed an auto defend order on squad lead at start of battle the randoms 'may' assist him -Squad lead can reset this order when ever he likes (I would suggest higher MU mercs get SL) -It gives the mindless Bluebs some sense of direction - DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!! While solo mercs may disagree there is nothing stopping you from doing your own thing and If the squad is full of screeching CODfish you can De-activate voice .. problem solved. Along with this, creating a squad and locking it would allow you to solo and be left alone So the only mercs added to random squads are the ones that deploy randomly This would surely be some EZ magic for Rattati to work out, without an update And would have the potential of boosting the interaction between mercs in battle Innapropriate Irrelevence... Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4778	Posted - 2014.09.29 19:08:00 - [114] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: I really like this idea! Not just for the fact it gathers randoms into a group, but mainly because of what Thor points out -If it placed an auto defend order on squad lead at start of battle the randoms 'may' assist him -Squad lead can reset this order when ever he likes (I would suggest higher MU mercs get SL) -It gives the mindless Bluebs some sense of direction - DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!! While solo mercs may disagree there is nothing stopping you from doing your own thing and If the squad is full of screeching CODfish you can De-activate voice .. problem solved. Along with this, creating a squad and locking it would allow you to solo and be left alone So the only mercs added to random squads are the ones that deploy randomly This would surely be some EZ magic for Rattati to work out, without an update And would have the potential of boosting the interaction between mercs in battle Sure seems logical, lots of the QQ against it seems misguided. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1296	Posted - 2014.09.29 19:31:00 - [115] - Quote Ouch... I regret reading through some of the comments here .... Soraya.. just because it puts mercs in random squads does not change much You are acting like Thor is wanting to enslave the Blueberries to do his bidding. If you read my first reply - Create Squad, Lock Squad = SOLO The only mercs included would be those deploying randomly... you could choose!! It may even make CCP take the time to explain the chat system, and squad system (Which as a merc who has helped countless Blueberries learn how this works -IT'S NEEDED) What is most disappointing is that SoTa is being more constructive than a CPM member Anyone denying the benefits of 'forcing' mercs to squad needs to re-evaluate .... Have you taken mercs at -1million SP and tried to assist them as they figure this game out ...?? I have, countless times since Beta... 80% have NO IDEA how to work things out on Dust If you have you would approve of this feature, mercs should be gathered from the beginning They don't have to group up and circle-jerk but this sets a better example for squad play... They could learn from mercs playing the game rather than local Chat farmers or Troll finder If your so afraid of mercs being forced into squads - have the auto squads disband after battle. You talk of NPE yet would prefer that randoms are left as they are to be farmed by everyone else Keep it up Thor, hopefully there are CCP/CPM members who see the value of this proposal. Innapropriate Irrelevence... Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4779	Posted - 2014.09.29 19:50:00 - [116] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Ouch... I regret reading through some of the comments here .... Soraya.. just because it puts mercs in random squads does not change much You are acting like Thor is wanting to enslave the Blueberries to do his bidding. If you read my first reply - Create Squad, Lock Squad = SOLO The only mercs included would be those deploying randomly... you could choose!! It may even make CCP take the time to explain the chat system, and squad system (Which as a merc who has helped countless Blueberries learn how this works -IT'S NEEDED) What is most disappointing is that SoTa is being more constructive than a CPM member Anyone denying the benefits of 'forcing' mercs to squad needs to re-evaluate .... Have you taken mercs at -1million SP and tried to assist them as they figure this game out ...?? I have, countless times since Beta... 80% have NO IDEA how to work things out on Dust If you have you would approve of this feature, mercs should be gathered from the beginning They don't have to group up and circle-jerk but this sets a better example for squad play... They could learn from mercs playing the game rather than local Chat farmers or Troll finder If your so afraid of mercs being forced into squads - have the auto squads disband after battle. You talk of NPE yet would prefer that randoms are left as they are to be farmed by everyone else Keep it up Thor, hopefully there are CCP/CPM members who see the value of this proposal. Sota's post was unexpected! Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
TH1EFOFSOuLS Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 32	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:07:00 - [117] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Sure by all means keep solo players solo so I can have a easier time owning people in my proto stomping squads.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3835	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:15:00 - [118] - Quote I notice a very high prevalence of Molon Labe people in support of this thread. ;) It's great your corp likes squads, but not everyone wants them. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4781	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:19:00 - [119] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I notice a very high prevalence of Molon Labe people in support of this thread. ;) It's great your corp likes squads, but not everyone wants them. Maybe it just shows that Molon has quite a few intelligent people in it's ranks. This is a no-brainer. As someone who represents the lower skilled ranks of Dust I would have assumed you'd be all over things that would help lower skilled and new players. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3836	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:29:00 - [120] - Quote I don't think forcing a playstyle (or trying to) helps people. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1301	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:40:00 - [121] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I don't think forcing a playstyle (or trying to) helps people. It forces nothing... IT SHOWS THEM THE OPTION IS THERE!!!!!!!! It says 'This is Dust, Squad combat is how the game is played, contribute to team = extra WP' (squad order) Every merc should at least be shown the squad mechanic from the beginning... once they get used to it Then they can go and be the solo merc they may want to be..... once they know how.. Dust is squad combat, why do you think we have such synergy in roles ??? The mercs that know how will solo, the ones that need to learn will be in squad. Is farming solo randoms so important to you that you just cannot agree with this???? A feature like this would boost the NPE... how is that so hard to comprehend???? Innapropriate Irrelevence... Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3836	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:55:00 - [122] - Quote Auto-adding people to squads isn't "showing them the option is there". It's forcing them into it. (And then when they quit in frustration, because they don't know how to create a locked squad of one to avoid it? Good going.) It's far better to instruct people in how to do it, then do it for them whether they want it or not. TheD1CK wrote: Is farming solo randoms so important to you that you just cannot agree with this???? Nice baseless accusation. As I said earlier in the thread, I, like many other people who play this game, prefer to play solo at times. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1301	Posted - 2014.09.29 21:17:00 - [123] - Quote OK... so you started this game with no squad support?? Did you grind your way up to proto levels by running solo ??? Even if it is 'forcing' it is in no way worse than what is happening to inexperienced mercs on a daily basis Yes my baseless accusation is not needed... but rather than advocating for solo play in a squad based game Could you propose an alternative...??? I would be in favour of shackling mercs together by their ankles opposed to what they have now. I completely agree that solo play is fun, preferred by many but New mercs be around squad play so they can learn Once they have seen how other players act in squad they can take that knowledge and begin to 'solo' If forcing them into a squad is such a horrible thing to do the we could look into alternatives Maybe add an option into the battle finder OR in the warbarge where mercs are prompted to join a squad This game is ruthless enough without literally throwing mercs into the wild and having them fend for themselves. Thor hands you a simple suggestion that promotes playing the game how it should be played... Why is this so wrong to you...?? Innapropriate Irrelevence... Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4783	Posted - 2014.09.29 21:27:00 - [124] - Quote He loses credibility with every post. Squad based game against solo noobs. Sounds legit. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3838	Posted - 2014.09.29 21:31:00 - [125] - Quote Yes, most of my gameplay was solo play. By choice. I squad when I feel like it, but a lot of times, I prefer to just shoot faces without having to interact with people. Especially early on, I rarely squadded with anyone. First person shooters are first and foremost stress relief for me. Usually, I am happy when other people in game are getting shot, and I am not having to deal with people. As I said above, I think there's ways that we could make finding a squad easier. For instance, rather than "squad finder" as it is now, we could take from Blizzard's "dungeon finder" model, where you can join with the simplicity of an instant battle, but it automatically creates and assembles a squad for you if you choose to queue that way. The big difference there, is right now, it throws you in a squad... but often not a fight. An auto-queueing squad finder would trigger based on the battle type you want, and immediately assemble your squad of people looking to play that type and queue the squad immediately. Disbanding the group again as soon as the match completes. I have no problem with those sorts of improvements. I am happy to champion them. But I'm also not going to approve of crusades to force people to play the game in a certain way. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1302	Posted - 2014.09.29 21:40:00 - [126] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Yes, most of my gameplay was solo play. By choice. I squad when I feel like it, but a lot of times, I prefer to just shoot faces without having to interact with people. Especially early on, I rarely squadded with anyone. First person shooters are first and foremost stress relief for me. Usually, I am happy when other people in game are getting shot, and I am not having to deal with people. As I said above, I think there's ways that we could make finding a squad easier. For instance, rather than "squad finder" as it is now, we could take from Blizzard's "dungeon finder" model, where you can join with the simplicity of an instant battle, but it automatically creates and assembles a squad for you if you choose to queue that way. The big difference there, is right now, it throws you in a squad... but often not a fight. An auto-queueing squad finder would trigger based on the battle type you want, and immediately assemble your squad of people looking to play that type and queue the squad immediately. Disbanding the group again as soon as the match completes. I have no problem with those sorts of improvements. I am happy to champion them. But I'm also not going to approve of crusades to force people to play the game in a certain way. Bravo \o/ Now that is how a CPM member should add to a thread. See how easy that was?? that is what happens when you build upon someones idea rather than go against it Like this : We keep the Squad Finder as is, add an option to the top of list - Auto Squad - The Auto Squad, fills up, deploys, on to the next one... fills up, deploys, on to the next one Along with disbanding after battles, so they just jump back into Auto Squad.. Rinse and Repeat Note: The Auto Squad should include the Auto Defend order Thor mentioned. I apologize for being a D1CK before, but I expect CPM to be constructive, not destructive Innapropriate Irrelevence... Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3839	Posted - 2014.09.29 21:46:00 - [127] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Bravo \o/ Now that is how a CPM member should add to a thread. I actually made almost the same post a few pages ago in the thread. ;) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2377231#post2377231 CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1302	Posted - 2014.09.29 21:51:00 - [128] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: TheD1CK wrote: Bravo \o/ Now that is how a CPM member should add to a thread. I actually made almost the same post a few pages ago in the thread. ;) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2377231#post2377231 LOL yeah... I like browsing the forum... but no I did not read every post initially I responded to Thors OP And yes your variation of his idea would work, though CCP would need to clarify things better As many mercs log in to shoot people, not spend time figuring out menus/chats/squad finders Hence why Thors proposal suits Dust, as clearly many mercs refuse to pay attention (Like me ) Innapropriate Irrelevence... Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
Mobius Kaethis molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 1902	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:07:00 - [129] - Quote But why even have the option to not auto-cue into a squad. It is in no way detrimental to be there? As soon as the battle you're out of the squad. Once again, no downside. If people are annoying, mute them. If you don't think the squad is moving in the right direction, don't go there. I do not see any way that being auto-placed into a squad changes your ability to treat this game like it is not a team based shooter. No player or mechanic will ever be able to stop you from ignoring team play and refusing to work with people, regardless of whether you are placed into a squad or not. Now with more evil.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2165	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:27:00 - [130] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: But why even have the option to not auto-cue into a squad. It is in no way detrimental to be there? As soon as the battle ends you're out of the squad. Once again, no downside. If people are annoying, mute them. If you don't think the squad is moving in the right direction, don't go there. I do not see any way that being auto-placed into a squad changes your ability to treat this game like it is not a team based shooter. Have you never played another team based shooter and seen how these auto-squad features work? No player or mechanic will ever be able to stop you from ignoring team play and refusing to work with people, regardless of whether you are placed into a squad or not. Might infringe on the ability of others to play their way is their argument I assume. Funny thing is that argument falls apart once you realize that forcing such a liberal policy on all is bound to infringe on the way that some wish to play. If you ask me, the "ability to play the way you want" is a cop out designed to remove the need to tell anyone "HTFU, this is the way it is, suck it up and deal or walk" "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3840	Posted - 2014.09.30 02:16:00 - [131] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: But why even have the option to not auto-cue into a squad. And this is where you prove you're just pushing your corp's agenda, and aren't interested in helping players or making the experience better for everyone. You're far more interested in forcing player behavior than enabling players or giving them options. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
hfderrtgvcd 599	Posted - 2014.09.30 02:20:00 - [132] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: But why even have the option to not auto-cue into a squad. And this is where you prove you're just pushing your corp's agenda, and aren't interested in helping players or making the experience better for everyone. You're far more interested in forcing player behavior than enabling players or giving them options. How is putting someone in squad "forcing player behavior"? They can just leave the squad or mute everyone. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3841	Posted - 2014.09.30 02:25:00 - [133] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: How is putting someone in squad "forcing player behavior"? They can just leave the squad or mute everyone. Well, two different aspects: 1. For new players, apparently we're auto-squadding them because they don't know how to squad. So why are we assuming they can figure out how to leave squad? 2. For veterans, we're adding irritating extra steps to playing the way they may want to. Which is going to drive more people to quit the game. I am more than happy to field concepts on ways to make the NPE better, but shoehorning players into Molon Labe's preferred way of playing the game is not fostering a sandbox MMO. Which, as empty of a sandbox we have, I do not want flipped upside-down. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4791	Posted - 2014.09.30 02:32:00 - [134] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: But why even have the option to not auto-cue into a squad. And this is where you prove you're just pushing your corp's agenda, and aren't interested in helping players or making the experience better for everyone. You're far more interested in forcing player behavior than enabling players or giving them options. I hope at some point in the near future you are able to wrap your head around how stupid you sound when you say that. What agenda do you believe we would have? How would such a system benefit Molon Labe? Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4791	Posted - 2014.09.30 02:36:00 - [135] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: How is putting someone in squad "forcing player behavior"? They can just leave the squad or mute everyone. Well, two different aspects: 1. For new players, apparently we're auto-squadding them because they don't know how to squad. So why are we assuming they can figure out how to leave squad? 2. For veterans, we're adding irritating extra steps to playing the way they may want to. Which is going to drive more people to quit the game. I am more than happy to field concepts on ways to make the NPE better, but shoehorning players into Molon Labe's preferred way of playing the game is not fostering a sandbox MMO. Which, as empty of a sandbox we have, I do not want flipped upside-down. They wouldn't have to leave squad. You act as though there is some hardship one must endure upon being automatically thrown into a squad. The stupid ones might not even realize why they are seeing green from time to time. Worst case scenario the player gets startled as an orbital he/she helped earned causes the killfeed to light up. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
hfderrtgvcd 600	Posted - 2014.09.30 03:21:00 - [136] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: How is putting someone in squad "forcing player behavior"? They can just leave the squad or mute everyone. Well, two different aspects: 1. For new players, apparently we're auto-squadding them because they don't know how to squad. So why are we assuming they can figure out how to leave squad? 2. For veterans, we're adding irritating extra steps to playing the way they may want to. Which is going to drive more people to quit the game. I am more than happy to field concepts on ways to make the NPE better, but shoehorning players into Molon Labe's preferred way of playing the game is not fostering a sandbox MMO. Which, as empty of a sandbox we have, I do not want flipped upside-down. you've got to be ******* kidding me. You think vets are going to quit the game because they get thrown into squads? If they can put up with getting stuck in terrain, lag, hard-freezing, and proto-stomping, they're hardly going to quit because they are in a squad. Also, what possible reason could someone have for not being in a squad? There are zero negative effects and a few positive ones. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Delenne Arran Ivory Hounds 59	Posted - 2014.09.30 04:45:00 - [137] - Quote I'd tolerate a WoW Dungeon-Finder type squadding mechanism, if it were able to be toggled on and off. I don't want to have to mute my squad every time I do an Ambush. I don't want to have to go through the rigmarole of putting myself in a locked squad of one every time I want to play the game. Are there benefits to being in a squad? Certainly. I think said benefits are often overstated, though. All else being equal, a well-organized squad has the advantage over 6 assorted chumps. On the other hand, a sufficiently skilled lone-wolf can deal with a poorly organized squad. The increased effectiveness is distorted somewhat because people who form well-organized squads also tend to have experience with the game, better gear, and/or a supportive corporation (or at least, a decent circle of friends.) I think allowing temporary squad play could help people who want to squad, but also just want to play a few quick games and call it a night. It should infringe on people who just want to go it solo as little as possible. Anything more than a toggle-able option in the Battle Finder page is too much. Saying "well, just leave the squad/make a squad of your own/mute the chat/do your own thing while remaining in the squad" is the wrong way to go about it. The best case scenario for putting someone in a squad who doesn't want to be there is that they accidentally help their leader get an Orbital Strike. Otherwise, you end up with someone taking up a space that could be given to someone who actually wants to be there, frustrating both parties.
Mobius Kaethis molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 1904	Posted - 2014.09.30 05:46:00 - [138] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: But why even have the option to not auto-cue into a squad. And this is where you prove you're just pushing your corp's agenda, and aren't interested in helping players or making the experience better for everyone. You're far more interested in forcing player behavior than enabling players or giving them options. Wait a minute. Just because we are in a corp together you automatically assume that we are pushing some large corp interest/agenda? Didn't you ever learn that collation does not equal causation? Sure, there is a collation. Several people in our corp think that this is a good idea. But that does not even remotely mean that we are asserting some larger agenda. Saying that several people from the same corp agreeing on a topic means that they are all pushing a "corp agenda" is just as well thought out and logical as saying that the decrease in the number of pirates is directly related to climate change. Think about it. The number of pirates in the world is decreasing and the global climate is warming. Does this mean that the change in the number of pirates is the cause for climate change? Your argument is equally insipid. No. We as a corp have no official agenda about this topic. It just happens that several of us feel strongly about it. I also really like how you've totally ignored my earlier posts as well as the rest of my post. Not only would placing people into squads have zero affect on how the game plays out for solo players it would give them the potential to earn more war points and thus SP. Remember, you don't have to follow squad orders, you don't have to be on voice coms, you don't even have to stay near your team mates. Should you do any of these things though you will earn more skill points thanks to the auto squad order in Thor's proposal. Additionally, since the squadding would happen once you began loading into a match, you wouldn't have to wait for a squad leader to cue you in. So lets look at the two sides: Pro_________________________________________________________Con GùèHelps new players learn team work____________________________GùèNot all players like team work GùèProvides opportunity for new players to learn from vets_____________GùèNo counter GùèCan leave squad if you want__________________________________Gùèdon't want to be in squad GùèCan mute comms__________________________________________Gùèdon't want to talk to others GùèMay result in more WP and thus more SP_______________________GùèNo counter GùèAble to still play independent of squad__________________________GùèAble to still work with squad GùèNo waiting for squad leader to cue into battle_____________________GùèDon't want to wait for squad leader to cue into battle GùèMost other team based games include auto squad making__________GùèNo counter with no issues or impact on player choice Take a look at this comparison and tell me if I have mis-represented your view then tell me how the two sides stack up. Now with more evil.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3844	Posted - 2014.09.30 07:23:00 - [139] - Quote You're banking on the mild hope that being randomly squadded with no instruction might encourage coordination. As a justification to make the game experience more annoying for others. Other than perhaps the mentioned claim someone might help with an orbital. That, since they don't know the game, they have no way of knowing they contributed to. Squadded clueless people are not really better than unsquadded clueless people. And certainly not worth the cost of frustrating players under some concept of trying to subtly indoctrinate them into your preferred playstyle. The particular reason I am calling out Molon Labe, is I do not even recall ever meeting people more openly hostile towards solo play than Molon Labe members. And in particular, there are people in here in this thread and in my conversations on Skype who have made some notion of understanding that there are middle grounds to be made. Ideas of how to make options, or other ways to streamline squad-based play. They were not the Molon Labe members in this thread. Every Molon Labe member posting here, to my recollection, is staunchly against making it convenient to play the game solo. I am simply calling out what I see, a corp who has decided that the way they play should be the only way to play. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Mobius Kaethis molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 1906	Posted - 2014.09.30 09:25:00 - [140] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: You're banking on the mild hope that being randomly squadded with no instruction might encourage coordination. As a justification to make the game experience more annoying for others. Other than perhaps the mentioned claim someone might help with an orbital. That, since they don't know the game, they have no way of knowing they contributed to. Squadded clueless people are not really better than unsquadded clueless people. And certainly not worth the cost of frustrating players under some concept of trying to subtly indoctrinate them into your preferred playstyle. The particular reason I am calling out Molon Labe, is I do not even recall ever meeting people more openly hostile towards solo play than Molon Labe members. And in particular, there are people in here in this thread and in my conversations on Skype who have made some notion of understanding that there are middle grounds to be made. Ideas of how to make options, or other ways to streamline squad-based play. They were not the Molon Labe members in this thread. Every Molon Labe member posting here, to my recollection, is staunchly against making it convenient to play the game solo. I am simply calling out what I see, a corp who has decided that the way they play should be the only way to play. By calling out the corp for the outspoken actions of three of its members you really are making some huge assumptions. We are not the voice of Molon Labe. nor do we claim to be. Heck, there are aproaching 600 members in Molon the vast majority of whom are regularly active. Calling any group of 3 representative of that number of people is simply ignorant of the diversity inherent in a group of gamers. When I come to the forums I come to promote the ideas I think will be best for the game, not myself, and not the corp. The greater community is who I advocate for. The more you talk about our corp using gross assumptions the more I loose respect for you as a community advocate. As to your argument that this suggestion would alienate solo players for minimal benefit to the rest of the community you are totally off base. There is no team based FPS where players being put into squads is in anyway an impediment to people choosing to play solo. There are many ways to ensure that you never hear another player, none of which being automatically being placed into squads would stop. This idea would not cause any meaningful changes for players who are dedicated to running solo, though it would have an impact on cooperation and team play as a whole, facts that you seem not to understand. Since you're clearly baffled by my insistence on emphasizing team play perhaps you could ask some questions instead of treating me like my ideas aren't worth the pixels they are displayed upon. That is what a good community representative would do, and what we gave you the mandate to do when we elected you to the CPM. You aren't asking for clarification though I'll take the initiative and explain. This game is, at its core a team based game. Just look at the battles, the way they are organized, the terminology used, the corporation system. Every aspect of this game emphasizes team based actions. Squads, are simply a smaller unit of the team, and corps are a larger entity that may encompass multiple teams. In seeking to emphasize squad and team based play over solo play I am simply trying to help push this game to be the full embodyment of that vision. Soloplay, which lacks any means of team or squad level coordination, is no better than a simple death match. It lacks the interaction that makes this game fun and unique. If I wanted to play that I would be playing Quake Online. Furthermore, increased teamwork (which begins with squad coordination) will lead to more competitive battles. When two full teams are pushing each other's lines, probing for weaknesses, or working together to break each other's dominance of a point, the match becomes extremely exciting. Those moments when you are working together and you help your team succeed in a difficult situation are what bring people back to a game time and again. Placing people into squads, and helping them in the direction of coordination is the first step in making those moments more common. Now with more evil.

TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1308	Posted - 2014.09.30 10:08:00 - [141] - Quote Wow.. the Struggle is Real in here - It may/may not encourage team-play, yet it is better than what we have now - It may encourage CCP to explain how the chat/squad/menu systems work (2 years later) We are talking about people playing not just a F2P game, but a terminally ill F2P game... And you think Auto Squads will make guys rage-quit??? seriously ???? I was naive enough to think you could see sense, I was wrong Your worried about people not liking being 'forced' to join others in an MMO ??? Yeah it makes much more sense to leave them separated and solo slow clap If anything will make people quit, it is lack of content, lack of combat and the re-release of a stash of old BPO's just to milk those who have hung around... I'm out of here, just know that mercs who play the game, and especially those that give a damn about retaining any New Mercs could see the sense in this... - Shame on you for you choice when voting Thor Innapropriate Irrelevence... Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3304	Posted - 2014.09.30 10:39:00 - [142] - Quote It's not so much "I prefer to play solo" it's "I don't want scotty picking which bundle of moron I will be playing with." If I wanted to play idiot roulette, I would select a squad from the Darwin Award Grab Bag that is squad finder. But since most of the goons have stopped caring about DUST, my list of non-idiot tryhard tards I'm willing to put up with has shrunk to a select few.
Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4798	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:25:00 - [143] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Wow.. the Struggle is Real in here - It may/may not encourage team-play, yet it is better than what we have now - It may encourage CCP to explain how the chat/squad/menu systems work (2 years later) We are talking about people playing not just a F2P game, but a terminally ill F2P game... And you think Auto Squads will make guys rage-quit??? seriously ???? I was naive enough to think you could see sense, I was wrong Your worried about people not liking being 'forced' to join others in an MMO ??? Yeah it makes much more sense to leave them separated and solo slow clap If anything will make people quit, it is lack of content, lack of combat and the re-release of a stash of old BPO's just to milk those who have hung around... I'm out of here, just know that mercs who play the game, and especially those that give a damn about retaining any New Mercs could see the sense in this... - Shame on you for you choice when voting Thor You can bet how my corp and alliance mails will look when CPM2 voting nears. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3857	Posted - 2014.09.30 14:04:00 - [144] - Quote The juvenile obsession with who voted for who and who will or won't vote for who isn't becoming of a useful contributor to feedback. As I've said countless times, I don't really intend to run again, so, if you wanna keep acting like children, it's not going to do anything anyways. Molon Labe's CEO has now blocked me on Skype, and refused to vote for me in the election I'm not going to run in, whatever will he do next? Mobius Kaethis wrote: This game is, at its core a team based game. Just look at the battles, the way they are organized, the terminology used, the corporation system. Every aspect of this game emphasizes team based actions. Squads, are simply a smaller unit of the team, and corps are a larger entity that may encompass multiple teams. In seeking to emphasize squad and team based play over solo play I am simply trying to help push this game to be the full embodyment of that vision. The problem is, this is your vision. Not the New Eden vision, not CCP's vision. Your vision. I am more than happy to look at ways to encourage and educate in gameplay. I am not willing to shoehorn players and deny them the ability to play the way they want to. Why are you so opposed to allowing players a choice? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4800	Posted - 2014.09.30 14:16:00 - [145] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: The juvenile obsession with who voted for who and who will or won't vote for who isn't becoming of a useful contributor to feedback. As I've said countless times, I don't really intend to run again, so, if you wanna keep acting like children, it's not going to do anything anyways. Molon Labe's CEO has now blocked me on Skype, and refused to vote for me in the election I'm not going to run in, whatever will he do next? Mobius Kaethis wrote: This game is, at its core a team based game. Just look at the battles, the way they are organized, the terminology used, the corporation system. Every aspect of this game emphasizes team based actions. Squads, are simply a smaller unit of the team, and corps are a larger entity that may encompass multiple teams. In seeking to emphasize squad and team based play over solo play I am simply trying to help push this game to be the full embodyment of that vision. The problem is, this is your vision. Not the New Eden vision, not CCP's vision. Your vision. I am more than happy to look at ways to encourage and educate in gameplay. I am not willing to shoehorn players and deny them the ability to play the way they want to. Why are you so opposed to allowing players a choice? I'm not the CEO. And my newfound obsession with making sure that you are not on CPM2 has to do with more than this topic. I think you have a vision for Dust that holds it back. I don't think auto-squading will happen because there has been NOTHING from CCP since planetary conquest was released to foster team play in any way shape or form. On the contrary they've been chasing their tails trying to balance in an environment where you have people min/maxing while using the squad/team features to utterly destroy the casual players. You either need to level out the gear and remove the disposable nature of the game (ISK losses) and make the game like COD or BF. OR you have to foster the aspect of Dust (squad/team play) that is creating the biggest imbalance. Certainly there is middle ground there, but it's been so heavily weighted toward incentivizing solo play that matches are 80% or more full of solo players. I believe the new players in Dust going about things solo is a big reason why they don't stick around very long. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3858	Posted - 2014.09.30 14:45:00 - [146] - Quote It's your vision which is close-minded, Thor. You are opposed to players being able to choose their destiny. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 736	Posted - 2014.09.30 14:51:00 - [147] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: It's your vision which is close-minded, Thor. You are opposed to players being able to choose their destiny. lolDestiny
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3858	Posted - 2014.09.30 14:53:00 - [148] - Quote Dust User wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: It's your vision which is close-minded, Thor. You are opposed to players being able to choose their destiny. lolDestiny I want to say 'pun not intended', but I noticed it when I wrote it, so, you know... somewhat intended since I didn't change it. ;) I still won't ever play Destiny. Screw that game. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4802	Posted - 2014.09.30 14:56:00 - [149] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: It's your vision which is close-minded, Thor. You are opposed to players being able to choose their destiny. Who is being close minded here? I'm asking for something that would have zero impact on a solo players experience other than seeing a few green players in addition to the blue ones they've become accustomed to. You keep saying it would be a chore to have to leave the squad or whatever, but there is simply zero reason to do so. Your reasoning against this is insane. This is a NPE improvement, one that many of the beta players benefited from without even realizing it. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4802	Posted - 2014.09.30 14:57:00 - [150] - Quote I look forward to your next response. How many ways can you make seeing a few green players instead of all blue players sound like a bad thing? Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42

maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 98	Posted - 2014.10.02 02:10:00 - [151] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Thats all well and good but your input isnt furthering the conversation. Why not purpose a fix to the problem. People should be able to play solo but in a seperate game mode. Its extremely frustrating to have 10 blues on your team that contribute 0 and cause you to loose. This game is weak without teamwork. People should be able to play how they want but not at the expense of the people who want a good competitive match.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3889	Posted - 2014.10.02 02:44:00 - [152] - Quote maluable, I've been a proponent of the concept of having like Ambush be solo-only, for instance. I've also suggested above in this thread that an auto-squad queuing mechanic could be separate from the existing Instant Battle manual queuing mechanic, which would ensure those who chose to be auto-squadded were willingly selecting the feature. Which would, in turn, mean your auto-squad would be more effective and more likely to want to behave like a squad. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 99	Posted - 2014.10.02 02:49:00 - [153] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: maluable, I've been a proponent of the concept of having like Ambush be solo-only, for instance. I've also suggested above in this thread that an auto-squad queuing mechanic could be separate from the existing Instant Battle manual queuing mechanic, which would ensure those who chose to be auto-squadded were willingly selecting the feature. Which would, in turn, mean your auto-squad would be more effective and more likely to want to behave like a squad. Wana know what will help this problem, keep new players in academy. Anyone with less that 10mil sp should be in diffrent server. How does nobody else see new players are 90% of the problem. I think it's sad that this problem wasn't forseen. New players drag the ones that know how to play down.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1926	Posted - 2014.10.02 04:13:00 - [154] - Quote maluble wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: maluable, I've been a proponent of the concept of having like Ambush be solo-only, for instance. I've also suggested above in this thread that an auto-squad queuing mechanic could be separate from the existing Instant Battle manual queuing mechanic, which would ensure those who chose to be auto-squadded were willingly selecting the feature. Which would, in turn, mean your auto-squad would be more effective and more likely to want to behave like a squad. Wana know what will help this problem, keep new players in academy. Anyone with less that 10mil sp should be in diffrent server. How does nobody else see new players are 90% of the problem. I think it's sad that this problem wasn't forseen. New players drag the ones that know how to play down. Wait wait wait. There are many new players that know what they are doing and are able to participate in the battle in a meaningful way. Just because they have low SP numbers doesn't mean they are getting in the way of you having a good time. Some players simply need more help getting accustomed to the complexities of dust. It has more going on than other shooters and the choices/information can be a bit baffling. Please refrain from making blanket statements which denegrate new players, who are after all, ensuring the future of the game we love. Now with more evil.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3889	Posted - 2014.10.02 04:46:00 - [155] - Quote maluble wrote: Wana know what will help this problem, keep new players in academy. Anyone with less that 10mil sp should be in diffrent server. How does nobody else see new players are 90% of the problem. I think it's sad that this problem wasn't forseen. New players drag the ones that know how to play down. Absolutely disagree. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1928	Posted - 2014.10.02 14:58:00 - [156] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: maluble wrote: Wana know what will help this problem, keep new players in academy. Anyone with less that 10mil sp should be in diffrent server. How does nobody else see new players are 90% of the problem. I think it's sad that this problem wasn't forseen. New players drag the ones that know how to play down. Absolutely disagree. Holy crap! You and I actualy agree on something! Watch out, the world might just implode. Now with more evil.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 484	Posted - 2014.10.02 15:19:00 - [157] - Quote Adding forced squads wont do anything to encourage teamplay, did you not play MAG? It had the same issues. We need to encourage the whole team to play together not just squads... I would suggest replacing squad orders with team orders for everyone to see and take part in, even if they are soloing. This might just get a few people to visit the same points on the map even if they aren't in a squad together. Of course to stop 16 solo squads placing orders all over the map, it might need a limit on how many squads there are per team.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4850	Posted - 2014.10.02 19:55:00 - [158] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Adding forced squads wont do anything to encourage teamplay, did you not play MAG? It had the same issues. We need to encourage the whole team to play together not just squads... I would suggest replacing squad orders with team orders for everyone to see and take part in, even if they are soloing. This might just get a few people to visit the same points on the map even if they aren't in a squad together. Of course to stop 16 solo squads placing orders all over the map, it might need a limit on how many squads there are per team. Or you could just have solo players automatically thrown into squads. From one day to the next I doubt you'd see any difference in matches. Your proposal would have 16 players zerging from point to point and that would be really stupid. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1930	Posted - 2014.10.03 04:14:00 - [159] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Adding forced squads wont do anything to encourage teamplay, did you not play MAG? It had the same issues. We need to encourage the whole team to play together not just squads... I would suggest replacing squad orders with team orders for everyone to see and take part in, even if they are soloing. This might just get a few people to visit the same points on the map even if they aren't in a squad together. Of course to stop 16 solo squads placing orders all over the map, it might need a limit on how many squads there are per team. Or you could just have solo players automatically thrown into squads. From one day to the next I doubt you'd see any difference in matches. Your proposal would have 16 players zerging from point to point and that would be really stupid. Even Derpty's idea would be better than what we have right now though. Which would we rather have, 16 people all zerging a single point or 6 people moving from point to point, 4 dividing their solo energies between AV and killing, and the final 6 hiding in the redline or spinning in circles in the MCC. Given the two options I would much rather have the zerg. Now with more evil.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1866	Posted - 2014.10.03 04:40:00 - [160] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. First point I agree with, but neither does it stop them running solo. All it does is show them there is a squad system in place. There's nothing there forcing them to rally at rally points or capture the capture order or defend the defend order. And there is no sandbox in Dust. Eve is a sandbox because there are a whole slew of different things to do: mining, industry, ratting, pirating, wardecs, the list goes on. Dust has only one thing: PvP. That's it. No pve, no mining, no industry to build its to sell... nothing but slay, and different methods with which to do it. Therefore, introducing new players to a mechanic that assists slaying cannot be a bad thing. Especially when, as I mentioned, there is nothing stopping them from lone wolfing it. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me

SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 662	Posted - 2014.10.18 07:45:00 - [161] - Quote So this is where I stand on this issue: 1. I support the default placement of blues into squads. 2. I support an option under gameplay settings that allows players to check a box that opts them out of this default setting. I think that's a fair compromise. The rookies would benefit from default squad placement and I imagine that a high number of them would not choose to opt out of this setting. Conversely, the types of players who hate being forced to squad up with strangers could make the conscious decision to permanently opt out within a few very simple button clicks. The bottom line is that inexperienced, unsophisticated players would be better served under this change. We can argue about the extent of said benefit, but it would clearly be an improvement over what we have now.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1957	Posted - 2014.10.18 17:14:00 - [162] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: So this is where I stand on this issue: 1. I support the default placement of blues into squads. 2. I support an option under gameplay settings that allows players to check a box that opts them out of this default setting. I think that's a fair compromise. The rookies would benefit from default squad placement and I imagine that a high number of them would not choose to opt out of this setting. Conversely, the types of players who hate being forced to squad up with strangers could make the conscious decision to permanently opt out within a few very simple button clicks. The bottom line is that inexperienced, unsophisticated players would be better served under this change. We can argue about the extent of said benefit, but it would clearly be an improvement over what we have now. At this point I'm willing to conceed on point 2 (something I have previously stated opposition too) if it allows any chance of this idea moving forward. Now with more evil.
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 662	Posted - 2014.10.18 17:23:00 - [163] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: SirManBoy wrote: So this is where I stand on this issue: 1. I support the default placement of blues into squads. 2. I support an option under gameplay settings that allows players to check a box that opts them out of this default setting. I think that's a fair compromise. The rookies would benefit from default squad placement and I imagine that a high number of them would not choose to opt out of this setting. Conversely, the types of players who hate being forced to squad up with strangers could make the conscious decision to permanently opt out within a few very simple button clicks. The bottom line is that inexperienced, unsophisticated players would be better served under this change. We can argue about the extent of said benefit, but it would clearly be an improvement over what we have now. At this point I'm willing to conceed on point 2 (something I have previously stated opposition too) if it allows any chance of this idea moving forward. I think my #2 is a bit more hidden than what most people are suggesting. Gameplay settings is the same place you have to go to change your server, so I don't think most noobs would go there and arbitrarily alter the default setting. The kinds of players who would turn it off are probably at least experienced enough to not ruin games for their team as a solo player. If there was a way to timelock the ability to change that setting until a minimum SP level was met, I'd definitely put that idea under consideration, but I doubt that's even possible.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4284	Posted - 2014.10.18 23:52:00 - [164] - Quote My personal preference is that it be easy to both find a squad and queue solo. But as long as a switch exists (CCP would likely determine amongst themselves where they'd like to put such a switch. The CPM aren't the game designers.) I am willing to have auto-squadding back as a feature. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 395	Posted - 2014.10.19 02:03:00 - [165] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time). A few things I think could improve the situation: 1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly. There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved. It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches. I think we should go other way around this and deploy matches without squads and mechanic to create one while in being in match. I'm solo player and I'm like it this - why match making mechanic is dropping me in to match against 6 guys from same corp while there is no squads in my team is beyond my understanding of balance match. Worst thing that dis-balance things when you have to fight against squads is that they share scanning range - 1 guy in squad is doing job of everyone. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5025	Posted - 2014.10.19 02:06:00 - [166] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time). A few things I think could improve the situation: 1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly. There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved. It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches. I think we should go other way around this and deploy matches without squads and mechanic to create one while in being in match. I'm solo player and I'm like it this - why match making mechanic is dropping me in to match against 6 guys from same corp while there is no squads in my team is beyond my understanding of balance match. Worst thing that dis-balance things when you have to fight against squads is that they share scanning range - 1 guy in squad is doing job of everyone. That's the point of the auto squads. There's an off chance you'd have a dude in your squad that has active or passive scans. Solo logis could take advantage of their own scanners. To me it opens up a lot of the game that many new players haven't experienced. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.


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