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Team Balancing with Solo Players and The Lack of Team Play

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Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3678	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:33:00 - [1] - Quote Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3679	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:49:00 - [2] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I'd just drop and squad I was allocated to. If I must suffer the presence of pubbies in my squad they will be pubbies of my choosing. What if dropping squad dropped you out of the match? Isn't that treating players poorly? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3683	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:55:00 - [3] - Quote I don't think the possibility of an orbital issued to an arbitrary solo player is a justifiable reason to force soloers to squad. Entering a vehicle sooner is more a sign of a systemic problem with vehicle locking being a thing. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3686	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:15:00 - [4] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". So, if say, 50% of players were playing DUST solo (I actually have no idea what the number on this would be, CCP hasn't told me, and I couldn't tell you if I knew.), you would say CCP should tell that 50% of it's playerbase to eff off and go play a different game? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3690	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:48:00 - [5] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: There is also the thought that if this were to be implemented, there would be nothing stopping CCP from adding a solo only game mode (or version of each game mode). There's a lot stopping the creation of a solo only game mode. Development time and a client patch. Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'd LOVE it if regular ambush was no squad, no vehicle solo play. I'd love it too. Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Because having teammates steal hundreds of thousands of ISK in assets to lose it in 2 minutes promotes team play The issue that even squad members have to wait to join me in my LAV, critically delaying my ability to get out there and go, is a huge crippling thing. Your unwillingness to share your toys nor manage them properly isn't a great excuse for that. The vehicle lock is massively crippling to experience, and I feel sad for the blueberries jumping near my car every time I have to leave them behind. Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. Very much this. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3703	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:59:00 - [6] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: If we're facing a 16 with 2 full squads in it solo players usually only help the enemy team?! And here's the problem. Here's why this idea is dumb and doesn't solve it. Right now, matchmaking has been fixed to avoid these imbalances. But Thor's system would reintroduce the imbalance, by putting everyone, competent or not, in squads together. Breaking the ability to use squad organization as a useful matchmaking flag. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3703	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:07:00 - [7] - Quote Thor, I don't agree that a good thing for DUST is to take your personal preference and auto-apply it to everyone. I'm sorry, we're not going to see eye to eye on this one. SirManBoy would probably be all over this though. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3704	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:23:00 - [8] - Quote SoTa Senpai wrote: and your assuming people want the full Dust experience in a mostly casual game. This. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3704	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:29:00 - [9] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Players can at any point leave the squad if they are 'anti-squad' for any reason and at the end of the battle it might get people talking with one and other. So, players like myself should be forced to, every match, pause to go into the chat window, find the squad chat thing, and leave squad? I can tell you I'd find that annoying. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3706	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:33:00 - [10] - Quote SoTa Senpai wrote: It will remain nothing but casual if we stick with your reasoning - there is a competitive and cut-throat side of this game that isn't show-cased EVEN IN THE SLIGHTEST. that is a HUGE concern for this game, and you CPM should be all over fixing the NPE to include PC talks and incentive to be more then casual. PC is inherently unfixable, IMHO. I'd definitely like to see FacWar play out as a much more hardcore and much more profitable institution though. NPE in general, is a very high priority, and easing the ability to collaborate with others is important. This is not the way to do it. We have a squad finder that does this. It's very prominent, right next to the instant battle button. If anything, I'd love to fix voice settings to default on, so that new players don't have to monkey in settings to be able to hear people. So when they DO choose to join a squad, it works well. And they can turn voice off if they need to. (On the other hand, if you auto-squad people, having voice on by default would be really really annoying.) But forcing people into squads is wrong. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3706	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:36:00 - [11] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Well hopefully CCP thinks you are a stupid as you are showing to be here. Maybe we can talk when you're done having your tantrum. The whole "last word, drop mic, and block on Skype" thing was real mature. ;) As I already told you, SirManBoy is a CPM member who would probably be all for this. But I'm not going to support a design that I feel is abusive to player choice. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3706	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:44:00 - [12] - Quote Thor, the problem is, you're assuming your view represents all players. And I specifically directed you to a CPM representative who would probably agree with you, and at best, be a better person to represent your view on the issue. More than once, in fact. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3706	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:48:00 - [13] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I know how SMB feels on the issue, I don't need to ask him about stuff like this. He sees the beauty of team play in Dust and the fact that it's one of the main things that sets Dust apart from other FPS. So ALL of the CPM members should represent Thor Odinson42's personal opinion then? And if they don't, you throw a tantrum, call them names, and then block them on Skype? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3709	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:54:00 - [14] - Quote I don't agree with you, so I'm not credible. Got it. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3712	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:32:00 - [15] - Quote Avinash, would you consider DUST a large scale battle game? :) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3712	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:44:00 - [16] - Quote Avinash, I'm pretty doubtful DUST will go above 16v16, personally. And between trying to shove more people in the game, and making the game perform better, at this point I'd prefer the latter. I have no idea what Legion's scale will look like, though I hope it's bigger than DUST's. Pretty sure the limitation on match size is client-based, SoTa. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3714	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:03:00 - [17] - Quote Sorry, Avinash, I was responding to Alaika's question. You both have A-names. :/ There's definitely a lot of things the squad system could improve on. But not through hotfixes, more than likely. Particularly, I'd love for squads to be variable sized for different game modes, scaling all the way up to team deploy for some. But I personally think it should be a user choice to join a squad. When they make that choice, it should be as easy as possible. If there was a squad finder revision more like the Dungeon Finder in WoW, which simply grabbed a squad and threw you in a battle, and disbanded at the end of the match, as a more "instant Battle"-flavored version of the Squad Finder, I think that'd be pretty cool. I'd also like to see newbies not have as much difficulty enabling voice when they do choose to squad up. I think it should probably be turned on by default. (Explaining to newbs how to activate voice in text chat is a pain.) But I don't think we should decide to squad people for them. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3717	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:08:00 - [18] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: I hope you're bringing this here "vehicle locking" issue up to CCP? I remember noting it. Actually, my primary note was that squad members shouldn't be affected at all by the lock (if you squad with someone, you should be working with them), or that they should figure out how to let anyone get in the car as soon as the owner was in the driver's seat. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3835	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:15:00 - [19] - Quote I notice a very high prevalence of Molon Labe people in support of this thread. ;) It's great your corp likes squads, but not everyone wants them. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3836	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:29:00 - [20] - Quote I don't think forcing a playstyle (or trying to) helps people. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3836	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:55:00 - [21] - Quote Auto-adding people to squads isn't "showing them the option is there". It's forcing them into it. (And then when they quit in frustration, because they don't know how to create a locked squad of one to avoid it? Good going.) It's far better to instruct people in how to do it, then do it for them whether they want it or not. TheD1CK wrote: Is farming solo randoms so important to you that you just cannot agree with this???? Nice baseless accusation. As I said earlier in the thread, I, like many other people who play this game, prefer to play solo at times. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3838	Posted - 2014.09.29 21:31:00 - [22] - Quote Yes, most of my gameplay was solo play. By choice. I squad when I feel like it, but a lot of times, I prefer to just shoot faces without having to interact with people. Especially early on, I rarely squadded with anyone. First person shooters are first and foremost stress relief for me. Usually, I am happy when other people in game are getting shot, and I am not having to deal with people. As I said above, I think there's ways that we could make finding a squad easier. For instance, rather than "squad finder" as it is now, we could take from Blizzard's "dungeon finder" model, where you can join with the simplicity of an instant battle, but it automatically creates and assembles a squad for you if you choose to queue that way. The big difference there, is right now, it throws you in a squad... but often not a fight. An auto-queueing squad finder would trigger based on the battle type you want, and immediately assemble your squad of people looking to play that type and queue the squad immediately. Disbanding the group again as soon as the match completes. I have no problem with those sorts of improvements. I am happy to champion them. But I'm also not going to approve of crusades to force people to play the game in a certain way. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3839	Posted - 2014.09.29 21:46:00 - [23] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Bravo \o/ Now that is how a CPM member should add to a thread. I actually made almost the same post a few pages ago in the thread. ;) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2377231#post2377231 CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3840	Posted - 2014.09.30 02:16:00 - [24] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: But why even have the option to not auto-cue into a squad. And this is where you prove you're just pushing your corp's agenda, and aren't interested in helping players or making the experience better for everyone. You're far more interested in forcing player behavior than enabling players or giving them options. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3841	Posted - 2014.09.30 02:25:00 - [25] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: How is putting someone in squad "forcing player behavior"? They can just leave the squad or mute everyone. Well, two different aspects: 1. For new players, apparently we're auto-squadding them because they don't know how to squad. So why are we assuming they can figure out how to leave squad? 2. For veterans, we're adding irritating extra steps to playing the way they may want to. Which is going to drive more people to quit the game. I am more than happy to field concepts on ways to make the NPE better, but shoehorning players into Molon Labe's preferred way of playing the game is not fostering a sandbox MMO. Which, as empty of a sandbox we have, I do not want flipped upside-down. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3844	Posted - 2014.09.30 07:23:00 - [26] - Quote You're banking on the mild hope that being randomly squadded with no instruction might encourage coordination. As a justification to make the game experience more annoying for others. Other than perhaps the mentioned claim someone might help with an orbital. That, since they don't know the game, they have no way of knowing they contributed to. Squadded clueless people are not really better than unsquadded clueless people. And certainly not worth the cost of frustrating players under some concept of trying to subtly indoctrinate them into your preferred playstyle. The particular reason I am calling out Molon Labe, is I do not even recall ever meeting people more openly hostile towards solo play than Molon Labe members. And in particular, there are people in here in this thread and in my conversations on Skype who have made some notion of understanding that there are middle grounds to be made. Ideas of how to make options, or other ways to streamline squad-based play. They were not the Molon Labe members in this thread. Every Molon Labe member posting here, to my recollection, is staunchly against making it convenient to play the game solo. I am simply calling out what I see, a corp who has decided that the way they play should be the only way to play. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3857	Posted - 2014.09.30 14:04:00 - [27] - Quote The juvenile obsession with who voted for who and who will or won't vote for who isn't becoming of a useful contributor to feedback. As I've said countless times, I don't really intend to run again, so, if you wanna keep acting like children, it's not going to do anything anyways. Molon Labe's CEO has now blocked me on Skype, and refused to vote for me in the election I'm not going to run in, whatever will he do next? Mobius Kaethis wrote: This game is, at its core a team based game. Just look at the battles, the way they are organized, the terminology used, the corporation system. Every aspect of this game emphasizes team based actions. Squads, are simply a smaller unit of the team, and corps are a larger entity that may encompass multiple teams. In seeking to emphasize squad and team based play over solo play I am simply trying to help push this game to be the full embodyment of that vision. The problem is, this is your vision. Not the New Eden vision, not CCP's vision. Your vision. I am more than happy to look at ways to encourage and educate in gameplay. I am not willing to shoehorn players and deny them the ability to play the way they want to. Why are you so opposed to allowing players a choice? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3858	Posted - 2014.09.30 14:45:00 - [28] - Quote It's your vision which is close-minded, Thor. You are opposed to players being able to choose their destiny. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3858	Posted - 2014.09.30 14:53:00 - [29] - Quote Dust User wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: It's your vision which is close-minded, Thor. You are opposed to players being able to choose their destiny. lolDestiny I want to say 'pun not intended', but I noticed it when I wrote it, so, you know... somewhat intended since I didn't change it. ;) I still won't ever play Destiny. Screw that game. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3889	Posted - 2014.10.02 02:44:00 - [30] - Quote maluable, I've been a proponent of the concept of having like Ambush be solo-only, for instance. I've also suggested above in this thread that an auto-squad queuing mechanic could be separate from the existing Instant Battle manual queuing mechanic, which would ensure those who chose to be auto-squadded were willingly selecting the feature. Which would, in turn, mean your auto-squad would be more effective and more likely to want to behave like a squad. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3889	Posted - 2014.10.02 04:46:00 - [31] - Quote maluble wrote: Wana know what will help this problem, keep new players in academy. Anyone with less that 10mil sp should be in diffrent server. How does nobody else see new players are 90% of the problem. I think it's sad that this problem wasn't forseen. New players drag the ones that know how to play down. Absolutely disagree. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4284	Posted - 2014.10.18 23:52:00 - [32] - Quote My personal preference is that it be easy to both find a squad and queue solo. But as long as a switch exists (CCP would likely determine amongst themselves where they'd like to put such a switch. The CPM aren't the game designers.) I am willing to have auto-squadding back as a feature. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

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