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Team Balancing with Solo Players and The Lack of Team Play

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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3155	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:22:00 - [31] - Quote I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4728	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:28:00 - [32] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I don't think the possibility of an orbital issued to an arbitrary solo player is a justifiable reason to force soloers to squad. Entering a vehicle sooner is more a sign of a systemic problem with vehicle locking being a thing. There would be literally ZERO difference in the solo derping players experience other than seeing some green dudes and a circle instead of all blue dudes and no circle. I don't see how this negatively affects them in any way. If they wanted to leave squad they could. However it COULD possibly lead some players to embrace the team style of play and that would be a good thing for Dust. If you don't see that then I'm sorry that I voted for you. Being in a squad doesn't necessary mean more effective play - the use of comms, and through communication the ability to coordinate and focus as a squad on given goals and objectives (cover my hack, bro!, etc.) is invaluable and 6 random soloers thrown into a squad wouldn't help that. I've hopped into existing squads in FW only to find they were all randoms, likely having squadded through squad finder, and none had mics active. All of them went their own way as soon as the match started (which is fine if it's an all scout squad, but not with heavies and logis and such. I'm not saying that it will solve everything. I think something like this could potentially direct someone toward using team work. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:30:00 - [33] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. You've made that clear. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3156	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:32:00 - [34] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'm not saying that it will solve everything. I think something like this could potentially direct someone toward using team work. Teamwork is undermined by people thinking KDR matters. Teamwork is undermined by people thinking that they are the hero on the battlefield. Teamwork is undermined when half the team is in scout suits. Teamwork is undermined by the lack of anything resembling a tutorial. Teamwork is undermined by the realization that the people you are trying to coordinate are idiots and your repeated statements of "Don't charge the Amarr Sentinel with the HMG" get ignored over and over.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 211	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:34:00 - [35] - Quote My solution to the problem created by your fix make squad lock squad deploy alone :) no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 211	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:36:00 - [36] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. +1 I'm with this guy..There will just be 12 squad leaders ona side no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:37:00 - [37] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'm not saying that it will solve everything. I think something like this could potentially direct someone toward using team work. Teamwork is undermined by people thinking KDR matters. Teamwork is undermined by people thinking that they are the hero on the battlefield. Teamwork is undermined when half the team is in scout suits. Teamwork is undermined by the lack of anything resembling a tutorial. Teamwork is undermined by the realization that the people you are trying to coordinate are idiots and your repeated statements of "Don't charge the Amarr Sentinel with the HMG" get ignored over and over. So do nothing? Watch one of the greatest attributes of Dust continue to deteriorate? Basically right now you have COD with a fraction of the team actually participating in the gameplay design and the remaining derping around doing whatever they please. The major difference in COD is that you don't have disposable items each time you die. They either need to incentivize teamwork and winning matches or they need to remove ISK and SP and embrace the lobby shooter completely. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2158	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:38:00 - [38] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'm not saying that it will solve everything. I think something like this could potentially direct someone toward using team work. Teamwork is undermined by people thinking KDR matters. Teamwork is undermined by people thinking that they are the hero on the battlefield. Teamwork is undermined when half the team is in scout suits. Teamwork is undermined by the lack of anything resembling a tutorial. Teamwork is undermined by the realization that the people you are trying to coordinate are idiots and your repeated statements of "Don't charge the Amarr Sentinel with the HMG" get ignored over and over. So do nothing? Watch one of the greatest attributes of Dust continue to deteriorate? Basically right now you have COD with a fraction of the team actually participating in the gameplay design and the remaining derping around doing whatever they please. The major difference in COD is that you don't have disposable items each time you die. They either need to incentivize teamwork and winning matches or they need to remove ISK and SP and embrace the lobby shooter completely. ^This is the root of the problem "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:39:00 - [39] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. +1 I'm with this guy..There will just be 12 squad leaders ona side It wasn't that way during beta Right now it's pointless to start a squad if solo because there isn't enough time in the warbarge to squad up. But most people stayed in random squads to accumulate WPs for OBs. I remember people yelling at the squad leader to drop the OB. No telling how many people learned how to drop OBs this way. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3160	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:40:00 - [40] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: They either need to incentivize teamwork and winning matches this is the first thing you have said that I agree with. Teamwork needs to be incentivized for it to become a thing. Forcing it will only **** people off. There is no incentive to be in a team. there is no incentive to win because match payouts are pretty much the same no matter how good you do. Win/lose the pay is the same. Why take risks? Meanwhile I'll be merrily torching every vehicle that tries to come into play.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:45:00 - [41] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: They either need to incentivize teamwork and winning matches this is the first thing you have said that I agree with. Teamwork needs to be incentivized for it to become a thing. Forcing it will only ** people off. There is no incentive to be in a team. there is no incentive to win because match payouts are pretty much the same no matter how good you do. Win/lose the pay is the same. Why take risks? Meanwhile I'll be merrily torching every vehicle that tries to come into play. My proposal is only meant to group up the droves of solo players and noobs. I don't see anything in any of my proposals that is forcing anything on anyone. You could simply leave squad in the warbarge. That can't be that much of an annoyance. Level 4 Forum Warrior** PSN: wbrom42
Haerr Legio DXIV 1458	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:46:00 - [42] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. ^ This. +1 I'll play how ever I want to play. Lol around // tryhard // solo // squad, which ever way I feel like.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:47:00 - [43] - Quote Haerr wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. ^ This. +1 I'll play how ever I want to play. Lol around // tryhard // solo // squad, which ever way I feel like. FFS dude, you'd simply just have to leave squad. It was this way in beta Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3690	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:48:00 - [44] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: There is also the thought that if this were to be implemented, there would be nothing stopping CCP from adding a solo only game mode (or version of each game mode). There's a lot stopping the creation of a solo only game mode. Development time and a client patch. Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'd LOVE it if regular ambush was no squad, no vehicle solo play. I'd love it too. Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Because having teammates steal hundreds of thousands of ISK in assets to lose it in 2 minutes promotes team play The issue that even squad members have to wait to join me in my LAV, critically delaying my ability to get out there and go, is a huge crippling thing. Your unwillingness to share your toys nor manage them properly isn't a great excuse for that. The vehicle lock is massively crippling to experience, and I feel sad for the blueberries jumping near my car every time I have to leave them behind. Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. Very much this. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Haerr Legio DXIV 1459	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:56:00 - [45] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Haerr wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. ^ This. +1 I'll play how ever I want to play. Lol around // tryhard // solo // squad, which ever way I feel like. FFS dude, you'd simply just have to leave squad. It was this way in beta FFS dude, you'd simply just have to join squad. (If you want too.)
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4732	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:00:00 - [46] - Quote Haerr wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Haerr wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. ^ This. +1 I'll play how ever I want to play. Lol around // tryhard // solo // squad, which ever way I feel like. FFS dude, you'd simply just have to leave squad. It was this way in beta FFS dude, you'd simply just have to join squad. (If you want too.) But that's not happening. It's not happening via squad finder and it's not happening in the war barge because there isn't time. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
xAckie Ghost. Mob 453	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:05:00 - [47] - Quote squad number should be reduced to 4 to reflect 16. 6 made sense when CCP was hoping to get 24v 24 which never happened.
Haerr Legio DXIV 1459	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:06:00 - [48] - Quote Hold on, will we still be allowed to make locked 1 man squads?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4732	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:12:00 - [49] - Quote Haerr wrote: Hold on, will we still be allowed to make locked 1 man squads? Sure, it's just a default thing so people might accidentally start to use team work. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4362	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:24:00 - [50] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) I have been saying this for a long time now. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5212	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:26:00 - [51] - Quote xAckie wrote: squad number should be reduced to 4 ^ This. I believe it'd also help with matchmaking and team building. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4362	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:35:00 - [52] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Not to mention the fact that if 6 experienced players are running solo and end up on the same team they will know what needs to be done and work together as a team even when they are not in the same squad. Not all blueberries are created equal. You put guys from Fatal Assentation, Ancient Exiles, and Molon Lobe on the same team and they will work together. You jam a bunch of new or casual players into the same squad and they will run around like a bunch of decapitated chickens. Painting the Blue dots Green does not change anything. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4734	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:38:00 - [53] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Not to mention the fact that if 6 experienced players are running solo and end up on the same team they will know what needs to be done and work together as a team even when they are not in the same squad. Not all blueberries are created equal. You put guys from Fatal Assentation, Ancient Exiles, and Molon Lobe on the same team and they will work together. You jam a bunch of new or casual players into the same squad and they will run around like a bunch of decapitated chickens. Painting the Blue dots Green does not change anything. But that's no different from what happens now. If a bunch of randoms earn and drop an orbital that would be cool right? Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 151	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:42:00 - [54] - Quote In a game specifically design for team based play, i thought it was ridiculous they even got rid of that system of auto-team deploy. The game doesn't explain this aspect of itself AT ALL. You would never realize from academy or any tutorial how everything comes together in this game, so no one will realize the important of teamwork until they've already probably committed to this game somewhat to explore and learn more. Most people will still be figuring out the market, suit, gear, stats, and how to make it all fit together, before they give any thought to how to actually encounter a match to win. This is one of the major reasons people feel like such blue berries in this game - they aren't guided enough. With squads pre-deployed for those not already in one Should be available option for solo play, a switch in option to turn off auto squadding that would mean at those who care enough to try can use what advantages being in a squad gives without bashing there heads waiting for a decent squad in squad finder. auto squading would make the squad search system give the game even more of an edge over competition, in this day in age any option is better then none.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4362	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:44:00 - [55] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Not to mention the fact that if 6 experienced players are running solo and end up on the same team they will know what needs to be done and work together as a team even when they are not in the same squad. Not all blueberries are created equal. You put guys from Fatal Assentation, Ancient Exiles, and Molon Lobe on the same team and they will work together. You jam a bunch of new or casual players into the same squad and they will run around like a bunch of decapitated chickens. Painting the Blue dots Green does not change anything. But that's no different from what happens now. If a bunch of randoms earn and drop an orbital that would be cool right? If they donGÇÖt know enough to form their own squad, what makes you think they would know enough to drop an Orbital? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4735	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:47:00 - [56] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Not to mention the fact that if 6 experienced players are running solo and end up on the same team they will know what needs to be done and work together as a team even when they are not in the same squad. Not all blueberries are created equal. You put guys from Fatal Assentation, Ancient Exiles, and Molon Lobe on the same team and they will work together. You jam a bunch of new or casual players into the same squad and they will run around like a bunch of decapitated chickens. Painting the Blue dots Green does not change anything. But that's no different from what happens now. If a bunch of randoms earn and drop an orbital that would be cool right? If they donGÇÖt know enough to form their own squad, what makes you think they would know enough to drop an Orbital? Read Sota's post just above yours. He captures what I've been eluding to much better than I've been able to. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 344	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:49:00 - [57] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. So are we supposed to notice that the other ten players gave up, and report to the McCain to wait? I notice battles are tons better when a squad of us get an additional 3 to 4 man squad! If we're facing a 16 with 2 full squads in it solo players usually only help the enemy team?! "Anybody order chaos?"
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4738	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:51:00 - [58] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. So are we supposed to notice that the other ten players gave up, and report to the McCain to wait? I notice battles are tons better when a squad of us get an additional 3 to 4 man squad! If we're facing a 16 with 2 full squads in it solo players usually only help the enemy team?! It's strange because he'll be one of the first to admit that the NPE is poor, yet here is a way to BY DEFAULT, introduce one of Dust's greatest attributes to a new player. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 152	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:58:00 - [59] - Quote There's several strange arguments in here, kinda making me scratch my head at your reasonings. Firstly: What game have you played when you're in a team and certain team mates are a different color you don't automatically realize what's going on? Most people will grasp quick that it means teamwork is employed in this game, and it will show-case to people to explore this route more aggressively then if they were just put in solo play. And seeing how focused Dust is on this subject, it's imperative Dust does everything it can to bring people together, to an extent. And auto-placing people is a great method. You can reason it out by saying TTK in this game makes this FPS experience closer to an MMO experience, as you'll be doing actual gun fights with others - so teamwork will shine light the sun in a dark sky. MMO's are all about concentrate fire on important targets - Dust is much the same. Secondly: The importance of class choice is really shown when you decide where to place your SP to benefit a team rather then yourself. Forcing people into squads means a certain type of player, logistical, one who has suffered for over a year now, can more easily enjoy his role without needing others or waiting for a squad to form. As well as other roles, such as Scout, Sniper, LAV Pilot, DS, and AV. Slayers have always had it too easy in this game, being able to pretty much do a little of everything and being able to survive solo for it - other classes don't have it so easy, and believe it or not, heave is one of them.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3703	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:59:00 - [60] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: If we're facing a 16 with 2 full squads in it solo players usually only help the enemy team?! And here's the problem. Here's why this idea is dumb and doesn't solve it. Right now, matchmaking has been fixed to avoid these imbalances. But Thor's system would reintroduce the imbalance, by putting everyone, competent or not, in squads together. Breaking the ability to use squad organization as a useful matchmaking flag. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.



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