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Team Balancing with Solo Players and The Lack of Team Play

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Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4723	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:27:00 - [1] - Quote I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time). A few things I think could improve the situation: 1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly. There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved. It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4725	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:51:00 - [2] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. You can still play solo. There's just an off chance that those solo players could accumulate enough points for an orbital as well as the other benefits of squad play such as shared scans and being able to enter a vehicle sooner. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4725	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:53:00 - [3] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Sandbox without a sandbox, economic factors without an actual market. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4725	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:55:00 - [4] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Bump match size to 18v18 have 3 squads on either side and autoload them? Only question then is how do you decide who is SL? Completely random I'd guess Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4726	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:01:00 - [5] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I don't think the possibility of an orbital issued to an arbitrary solo player is a justifiable reason to force soloers to squad. Entering a vehicle sooner is more a sign of a systemic problem with vehicle locking being a thing. There would be literally ZERO difference in the solo derping players experience other than seeing some green dudes and a circle instead of all blue dudes and no circle. I don't see how this negatively affects them in any way. If they wanted to leave squad they could. However it COULD possibly lead some players to embrace the team style of play and that would be a good thing for Dust. If you don't see that then I'm sorry that I voted for you. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4726	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:03:00 - [6] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time). A few things I think could improve the situation: 1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly. There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved. It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches. Agreed. Thor and I were in a squad that got stomped for 10 games in a row last night. Every match we entered hopeful played extremely hard only to realize our teamates had given up 2 minutes in leaving the enemy to focus all 16 of their players on us. It was brutal. Something needs to be done to encourage more team play and actually trying to win. Before you joined there was a match where only one player managed more than 100 WP outside of our squad (it got 230 or something like that). This tells me that they are new players. New players that might benefit from seeing the positive effects of being in a squad. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4726	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:10:00 - [7] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". I mean, it isn't like you can't start a squad (invite people or be happy with who the servers ally with you) or join one from the finder (only join squads led by people you enjoy playing with or keep joining them until you find a squad you can stomach). It isn't like there aren't tools there to help you refrain from being put into a squad with random "pubbies", if you're not going to use them then don't complain. Most players are idiot olympic gold winners. There is no advantage to playing with most and bluntly 9 out of 10 times I am deeply occupied putting vehicle drivers and ADS pilots in their proper place (in the grave) to give a rippling crap what the redt of you are doing. You take points, kill people, whatever. My AV mission keeping that crap off your asses won't be assisted by listening to a bunch of idiot mouth-breathers go full nerdrage when someone manages to gank them. So no. Take your forced squad idea and put it elsewhere. If it becomes a thing I'll just make a squad and lock it and STILL fly solo. I fail to see how it would affect you negatively. You could leave the defend order on yourself and accumulated enough WP for an OB. Then you could get off by waiting in the screen for an RDV to be dropped and take it out along with the vehicle and the person(s) waiting for it. You could disable voice and never even have to listen to anyone. However your efforts would be compounded. Hell maybe one of the squad members would take note of your efforts and wish to replicate it. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4727	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:26:00 - [8] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". So, if say, 50% of players were playing DUST solo (I actually have no idea what the number on this would be, CCP hasn't told me, and I couldn't tell you if I knew.), you would say CCP should tell that 50% of it's playerbase to eff off and go play a different game? I'd say >50% of the playerbase cries for respecs (or has) and CCP consistently tells them to "eff off and go play a different game". Hell, they've even basically added that to the login page (not giving them out, don't bother asking). There is also the thought that if this were to be implemented, there would be nothing stopping CCP from adding a solo only game mode (or version of each game mode). I'd LOVE it if regular ambush was no squad, no vehicle solo play. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4728	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:32:00 - [9] - Quote This game went from me pleading to get a cheaper low risk team deploy option to prepare for planetary conquest to me just wishing some of the droves of solo players could automatically be thrown into squads to perhaps nudge them toward team play. How much further does the team play aspect need to erode before someone throws it a bone? Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4728	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:45:00 - [10] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I will make the lives of everone who squads with me hell if I am not allowed to dictate who I wish to play with. The thing is, you can still dictate who you play with, squad with alliance mates/corpies or find a tolerable squad in the squad finder. Either way you are dictating who you play with, with the only restriction being that you must play with 5 other people in squad with you. I think that preventing leaving squad in the warbarge or in game could have some implications in PC. People DC and you have to bring people in or someone changes roles and switches squad mid battle. To me even if only 20% of players stayed in the squad they were thrown into it would be a win. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4728	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:56:00 - [11] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I will make the lives of everone who squads with me hell if I am not allowed to dictate who I wish to play with. The thing is, you can still dictate who you play with, squad with alliance mates/corpies or find a tolerable squad in the squad finder. Either way you are dictating who you play with, with the only restriction being that you must play with 5 other people in squad with you. I think that preventing leaving squad in the warbarge or in game could have some implications in PC. People DC and you have to bring people in or someone changes roles and switches squad mid battle. To me even if only 20% of players stayed in the squad they were thrown into it would be a win. lolPC is a totally different beast from the pubs I am talking about. I could see this working in FW too, though lolPC is intended to be totally player directed so it would make sense to have the exception present there if you ask me. The only reason that I brought up PC, is that changing the ability to leave squad in a pub is likely to affect the ability to leave squad in PC. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4728	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:28:00 - [12] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I don't think the possibility of an orbital issued to an arbitrary solo player is a justifiable reason to force soloers to squad. Entering a vehicle sooner is more a sign of a systemic problem with vehicle locking being a thing. There would be literally ZERO difference in the solo derping players experience other than seeing some green dudes and a circle instead of all blue dudes and no circle. I don't see how this negatively affects them in any way. If they wanted to leave squad they could. However it COULD possibly lead some players to embrace the team style of play and that would be a good thing for Dust. If you don't see that then I'm sorry that I voted for you. Being in a squad doesn't necessary mean more effective play - the use of comms, and through communication the ability to coordinate and focus as a squad on given goals and objectives (cover my hack, bro!, etc.) is invaluable and 6 random soloers thrown into a squad wouldn't help that. I've hopped into existing squads in FW only to find they were all randoms, likely having squadded through squad finder, and none had mics active. All of them went their own way as soon as the match started (which is fine if it's an all scout squad, but not with heavies and logis and such. I'm not saying that it will solve everything. I think something like this could potentially direct someone toward using team work. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:30:00 - [13] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. You've made that clear. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:37:00 - [14] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'm not saying that it will solve everything. I think something like this could potentially direct someone toward using team work. Teamwork is undermined by people thinking KDR matters. Teamwork is undermined by people thinking that they are the hero on the battlefield. Teamwork is undermined when half the team is in scout suits. Teamwork is undermined by the lack of anything resembling a tutorial. Teamwork is undermined by the realization that the people you are trying to coordinate are idiots and your repeated statements of "Don't charge the Amarr Sentinel with the HMG" get ignored over and over. So do nothing? Watch one of the greatest attributes of Dust continue to deteriorate? Basically right now you have COD with a fraction of the team actually participating in the gameplay design and the remaining derping around doing whatever they please. The major difference in COD is that you don't have disposable items each time you die. They either need to incentivize teamwork and winning matches or they need to remove ISK and SP and embrace the lobby shooter completely. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:39:00 - [15] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. +1 I'm with this guy..There will just be 12 squad leaders ona side It wasn't that way during beta Right now it's pointless to start a squad if solo because there isn't enough time in the warbarge to squad up. But most people stayed in random squads to accumulate WPs for OBs. I remember people yelling at the squad leader to drop the OB. No telling how many people learned how to drop OBs this way. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:45:00 - [16] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: They either need to incentivize teamwork and winning matches this is the first thing you have said that I agree with. Teamwork needs to be incentivized for it to become a thing. Forcing it will only ** people off. There is no incentive to be in a team. there is no incentive to win because match payouts are pretty much the same no matter how good you do. Win/lose the pay is the same. Why take risks? Meanwhile I'll be merrily torching every vehicle that tries to come into play. My proposal is only meant to group up the droves of solo players and noobs. I don't see anything in any of my proposals that is forcing anything on anyone. You could simply leave squad in the warbarge. That can't be that much of an annoyance. Level 4 Forum Warrior** PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4731	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:47:00 - [17] - Quote Haerr wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. ^ This. +1 I'll play how ever I want to play. Lol around // tryhard // solo // squad, which ever way I feel like. FFS dude, you'd simply just have to leave squad. It was this way in beta Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4732	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:00:00 - [18] - Quote Haerr wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Haerr wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I am against forcing people into squads not of their own choosing. And bluntly I am against another person telling me how I am allowed to play a game. I'm here for fun, not to satisfy your need to dictate how things work. ^ This. +1 I'll play how ever I want to play. Lol around // tryhard // solo // squad, which ever way I feel like. FFS dude, you'd simply just have to leave squad. It was this way in beta FFS dude, you'd simply just have to join squad. (If you want too.) But that's not happening. It's not happening via squad finder and it's not happening in the war barge because there isn't time. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4732	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:12:00 - [19] - Quote Haerr wrote: Hold on, will we still be allowed to make locked 1 man squads? Sure, it's just a default thing so people might accidentally start to use team work. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4734	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:38:00 - [20] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Not to mention the fact that if 6 experienced players are running solo and end up on the same team they will know what needs to be done and work together as a team even when they are not in the same squad. Not all blueberries are created equal. You put guys from Fatal Assentation, Ancient Exiles, and Molon Lobe on the same team and they will work together. You jam a bunch of new or casual players into the same squad and they will run around like a bunch of decapitated chickens. Painting the Blue dots Green does not change anything. But that's no different from what happens now. If a bunch of randoms earn and drop an orbital that would be cool right? Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4735	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:47:00 - [21] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Not to mention the fact that if 6 experienced players are running solo and end up on the same team they will know what needs to be done and work together as a team even when they are not in the same squad. Not all blueberries are created equal. You put guys from Fatal Assentation, Ancient Exiles, and Molon Lobe on the same team and they will work together. You jam a bunch of new or casual players into the same squad and they will run around like a bunch of decapitated chickens. Painting the Blue dots Green does not change anything. But that's no different from what happens now. If a bunch of randoms earn and drop an orbital that would be cool right? If they donGÇÖt know enough to form their own squad, what makes you think they would know enough to drop an Orbital? Read Sota's post just above yours. He captures what I've been eluding to much better than I've been able to. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4738	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:51:00 - [22] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. So are we supposed to notice that the other ten players gave up, and report to the McCain to wait? I notice battles are tons better when a squad of us get an additional 3 to 4 man squad! If we're facing a 16 with 2 full squads in it solo players usually only help the enemy team?! It's strange because he'll be one of the first to admit that the NPE is poor, yet here is a way to BY DEFAULT, introduce one of Dust's greatest attributes to a new player. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4738	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:01:00 - [23] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: If we're facing a 16 with 2 full squads in it solo players usually only help the enemy team?! And here's the problem. Here's why this idea is dumb and doesn't solve it. Right now, matchmaking has been fixed to avoid these imbalances. But Thor's system would reintroduce the imbalance, by putting everyone, competent or not, in squads together. Breaking the ability to use squad organization as a useful matchmaking flag. It would take the same group of players that were queue'd in, then balanced, then throw them in a squad. I don't see the issue. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4738	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:04:00 - [24] - Quote SoTa Senpai wrote: There's several strange arguments in here, kinda making me scratch my head at your reasonings. Firstly: What game have you played when you're in a team and certain team mates are a different color you don't automatically realize what's going on? Most people will grasp quick that it means teamwork is employed in this game, and it will show-case to people to explore this route more aggressively then if they were just put in solo play. And seeing how focused Dust is on this subject, it's imperative Dust does everything it can to bring people together, to an extent. And auto-placing people is a great method. You can reason it out by saying TTK in this game makes this FPS experience closer to an MMO experience, as you'll be doing actual gun fights with others - so teamwork will shine light like the sun in a dark sky. MMO's are all about concentrate fire on important targets - Dust is much the same. Secondly: The importance of class choice is really shown when you decide where to place your SP to benefit a team rather then yourself. Forcing people into squads means a certain type of player, logistical, one who has suffered for over a year now, can more easily enjoy his role without needing others or waiting for a squad to form. As well as other roles, such as Scout, Sniper, LAV Pilot, DS, and AV. Slayers have always had it too easy in this game, being able to pretty much do a little of everything and being able to survive solo for it - other classes don't have it so easy, and believe it or not, heave is one of them. Soraya soak some of this up and quit trying to argue for the sake of arguing. This would actually be a good thing for new players and a good thing for Dust. Arguing against this is just silly. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4738	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:10:00 - [25] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor, I don't agree that a good thing for DUST is to take your personal preference and auto-apply it to everyone. I'm sorry, we're not going to see eye to eye on this one. SirManBoy would probably be all over this though. Explain how it's bad. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4738	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:13:00 - [26] - Quote SoTa Senpai wrote: Soraya - go talk to CCP and ask them if it's possible to add more parameters to the match making system, as in, you know, add in that solo players will get grouped up, so add that to the function? You know, cause, programming, is, you know, creative? I don't understand how this is hard. Are you telling me they can make a burning tree on PC but they can't add parameters to match making? He assumes that all the new players that enter the game want to play solo apparently. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4739	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:29:00 - [27] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: SoTa Senpai wrote: and your assuming people want the full Dust experience in a mostly casual game. This. Then what is the point? Why worry about ISK or SP? Just unlock all the stuff and let everyone derp around all day. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4739	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:34:00 - [28] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: SoTa Senpai wrote: It will remain nothing but casual if we stick with your reasoning - there is a competitive and cut-throat side of this game that isn't show-cased EVEN IN THE SLIGHTEST. that is a HUGE concern for this game, and you CPM should be all over fixing the NPE to include PC talks and incentive to be more then casual. PC is inherently unfixable, IMHO. I'd definitely like to see FacWar play out as a much more hardcore and much more profitable institution though. NPE in general, is a very high priority, and easing the ability to collaborate with others is important. This is not the way to do it. We have a squad finder that does this. It's very prominent, right next to the instant battle button. If anything, I'd love to fix voice settings to default on, so that new players don't have to monkey in settings to be able to hear people. So when they DO choose to join a squad, it works well. And they can turn voice off if they need to. (On the other hand, if you auto-squad people, having voice on by default would be really really annoying.) But forcing people into squads is wrong. Well hopefully CCP thinks you are a stupid as you are showing to be here. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4740	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:41:00 - [29] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Well hopefully CCP thinks you are a stupid as you are showing to be here. Maybe we can talk when you're done having your tantrum. The whole "last word, drop mic, and block on Skype" thing was real mature. ;) As I already told you, SirManBoy is a CPM member who would probably be all for this. But I'm not going to support a design that I feel is abusive to player choice. I'm fairly upset that one of our player representatives is showing his ass about something that would help new players more than any tutorial or squad finder. Squad finder is great for people in an corp or alliance, but many times the public finder has squads at the top that people jump in and out of because the squad leader is AFK. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4740	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:46:00 - [30] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor, the problem is, you're assuming your view represents all players. And I specifically directed you to a CPM representative who would probably agree with you, and at best, be a better person to represent the issue. More than once, in fact. I know how SMB feels on the issue, I don't need to ask him about stuff like this. He sees the beauty of team play in Dust and the fact that it's one of the main things that sets Dust apart from other FPS. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4741	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:53:00 - [31] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I know how SMB feels on the issue, I don't need to ask him about stuff like this. He sees the beauty of team play in Dust and the fact that it's one of the main things that sets Dust apart from other FPS. So ALL of the CPM members should represent Thor Odinson42's personal opinion then? And if they don't, you throw a tantrum, call them names, and then block them on Skype? No, not at all. I don't find you to be a credible person to discuss this game with. Why would I stay in your channel and keep you as a contact? Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4741	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:55:00 - [32] - Quote SoTa Senpai wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I know how SMB feels on the issue, I don't need to ask him about stuff like this. He sees the beauty of team play in Dust and the fact that it's one of the main things that sets Dust apart from other FPS. So ALL of the CPM members should represent Thor Odinson42's personal opinion then? And if they don't, you throw a tantrum, call them names, and then block them on Skype? LOL Grabs popcorn Soraya has a point btw, just because he's blind doesn't change who he is - but he's not being very observant of his position and what it means for a CPM to be posting the way he is in your thread. No doubt, between this and the ADS thread I hope he enjoys his time. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4749	Posted - 2014.09.26 22:00:00 - [33] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time). A few things I think could improve the situation: 1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly. There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved. It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches. Agreed. Thor and I were in a squad that got stomped for 10 games in a row last night. Every match we entered hopeful played extremely hard only to realize our teamates had given up 2 minutes in leaving the enemy to focus all 16 of their players on us. It was brutal. Something needs to be done to encourage more team play and actually trying to win. You can't make people squad. People feel more comfortable now soloing when they want to. It's now possible to solo without it sucking every time. That's a good thing. You're just as likely to be against the solo rabble as to have them dragging you down on your side. If you really want to be assured of going against organized squads, find another corp that is willing and play opposite factions in FW at the same time. I've been wanting to try that idea but haven't gotten around to it. It's pure gold if you can just find a willing opponent. This isn't meant to change behavior of veteran players who know what's going on. It would be great if that veteran player stayed in the squad to help accumulate 5000 WP, but it's not that big of a deal. As others have said here, by making squad the default option it highlights the squad/team aspects of Dust for a new player in their first Acadamy battle. The potential benefit to the game to me offsets any veteran's annoyance of seeing 5 green dots instead of 15 blue dots. It seems extremely petty for this to be the point of contention. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4774	Posted - 2014.09.29 18:20:00 - [34] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: considering when you don't force-assign voice to a channel, it autoconnects to squad/team by default? 90% of the time it's sudden, and they are raping my ears with idiocy. It's not selfish, it's sanity preservation. Also, I've yet to see a random collection of blue dots who pay attention to more than the first shiny that passes in front of them. I've given up on trying to teach random squads how to act in concert. It's like herding cats, only the cats would cooperate more. It seems like you are warming up to the idea. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4778	Posted - 2014.09.29 19:08:00 - [35] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: I really like this idea! Not just for the fact it gathers randoms into a group, but mainly because of what Thor points out -If it placed an auto defend order on squad lead at start of battle the randoms 'may' assist him -Squad lead can reset this order when ever he likes (I would suggest higher MU mercs get SL) -It gives the mindless Bluebs some sense of direction - DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!! While solo mercs may disagree there is nothing stopping you from doing your own thing and If the squad is full of screeching CODfish you can De-activate voice .. problem solved. Along with this, creating a squad and locking it would allow you to solo and be left alone So the only mercs added to random squads are the ones that deploy randomly This would surely be some EZ magic for Rattati to work out, without an update And would have the potential of boosting the interaction between mercs in battle Sure seems logical, lots of the QQ against it seems misguided. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4779	Posted - 2014.09.29 19:50:00 - [36] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Ouch... I regret reading through some of the comments here .... Soraya.. just because it puts mercs in random squads does not change much You are acting like Thor is wanting to enslave the Blueberries to do his bidding. If you read my first reply - Create Squad, Lock Squad = SOLO The only mercs included would be those deploying randomly... you could choose!! It may even make CCP take the time to explain the chat system, and squad system (Which as a merc who has helped countless Blueberries learn how this works -IT'S NEEDED) What is most disappointing is that SoTa is being more constructive than a CPM member Anyone denying the benefits of 'forcing' mercs to squad needs to re-evaluate .... Have you taken mercs at -1million SP and tried to assist them as they figure this game out ...?? I have, countless times since Beta... 80% have NO IDEA how to work things out on Dust If you have you would approve of this feature, mercs should be gathered from the beginning They don't have to group up and circle-jerk but this sets a better example for squad play... They could learn from mercs playing the game rather than local Chat farmers or Troll finder If your so afraid of mercs being forced into squads - have the auto squads disband after battle. You talk of NPE yet would prefer that randoms are left as they are to be farmed by everyone else Keep it up Thor, hopefully there are CCP/CPM members who see the value of this proposal. Sota's post was unexpected! Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4781	Posted - 2014.09.29 20:19:00 - [37] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I notice a very high prevalence of Molon Labe people in support of this thread. ;) It's great your corp likes squads, but not everyone wants them. Maybe it just shows that Molon has quite a few intelligent people in it's ranks. This is a no-brainer. As someone who represents the lower skilled ranks of Dust I would have assumed you'd be all over things that would help lower skilled and new players. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4783	Posted - 2014.09.29 21:27:00 - [38] - Quote He loses credibility with every post. Squad based game against solo noobs. Sounds legit. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4791	Posted - 2014.09.30 02:32:00 - [39] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: But why even have the option to not auto-cue into a squad. And this is where you prove you're just pushing your corp's agenda, and aren't interested in helping players or making the experience better for everyone. You're far more interested in forcing player behavior than enabling players or giving them options. I hope at some point in the near future you are able to wrap your head around how stupid you sound when you say that. What agenda do you believe we would have? How would such a system benefit Molon Labe? Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4791	Posted - 2014.09.30 02:36:00 - [40] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: How is putting someone in squad "forcing player behavior"? They can just leave the squad or mute everyone. Well, two different aspects: 1. For new players, apparently we're auto-squadding them because they don't know how to squad. So why are we assuming they can figure out how to leave squad? 2. For veterans, we're adding irritating extra steps to playing the way they may want to. Which is going to drive more people to quit the game. I am more than happy to field concepts on ways to make the NPE better, but shoehorning players into Molon Labe's preferred way of playing the game is not fostering a sandbox MMO. Which, as empty of a sandbox we have, I do not want flipped upside-down. They wouldn't have to leave squad. You act as though there is some hardship one must endure upon being automatically thrown into a squad. The stupid ones might not even realize why they are seeing green from time to time. Worst case scenario the player gets startled as an orbital he/she helped earned causes the killfeed to light up. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42

Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4798	Posted - 2014.09.30 11:25:00 - [41] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Wow.. the Struggle is Real in here - It may/may not encourage team-play, yet it is better than what we have now - It may encourage CCP to explain how the chat/squad/menu systems work (2 years later) We are talking about people playing not just a F2P game, but a terminally ill F2P game... And you think Auto Squads will make guys rage-quit??? seriously ???? I was naive enough to think you could see sense, I was wrong Your worried about people not liking being 'forced' to join others in an MMO ??? Yeah it makes much more sense to leave them separated and solo slow clap If anything will make people quit, it is lack of content, lack of combat and the re-release of a stash of old BPO's just to milk those who have hung around... I'm out of here, just know that mercs who play the game, and especially those that give a damn about retaining any New Mercs could see the sense in this... - Shame on you for you choice when voting Thor You can bet how my corp and alliance mails will look when CPM2 voting nears. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4800	Posted - 2014.09.30 14:16:00 - [42] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: The juvenile obsession with who voted for who and who will or won't vote for who isn't becoming of a useful contributor to feedback. As I've said countless times, I don't really intend to run again, so, if you wanna keep acting like children, it's not going to do anything anyways. Molon Labe's CEO has now blocked me on Skype, and refused to vote for me in the election I'm not going to run in, whatever will he do next? Mobius Kaethis wrote: This game is, at its core a team based game. Just look at the battles, the way they are organized, the terminology used, the corporation system. Every aspect of this game emphasizes team based actions. Squads, are simply a smaller unit of the team, and corps are a larger entity that may encompass multiple teams. In seeking to emphasize squad and team based play over solo play I am simply trying to help push this game to be the full embodyment of that vision. The problem is, this is your vision. Not the New Eden vision, not CCP's vision. Your vision. I am more than happy to look at ways to encourage and educate in gameplay. I am not willing to shoehorn players and deny them the ability to play the way they want to. Why are you so opposed to allowing players a choice? I'm not the CEO. And my newfound obsession with making sure that you are not on CPM2 has to do with more than this topic. I think you have a vision for Dust that holds it back. I don't think auto-squading will happen because there has been NOTHING from CCP since planetary conquest was released to foster team play in any way shape or form. On the contrary they've been chasing their tails trying to balance in an environment where you have people min/maxing while using the squad/team features to utterly destroy the casual players. You either need to level out the gear and remove the disposable nature of the game (ISK losses) and make the game like COD or BF. OR you have to foster the aspect of Dust (squad/team play) that is creating the biggest imbalance. Certainly there is middle ground there, but it's been so heavily weighted toward incentivizing solo play that matches are 80% or more full of solo players. I believe the new players in Dust going about things solo is a big reason why they don't stick around very long. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4802	Posted - 2014.09.30 14:56:00 - [43] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: It's your vision which is close-minded, Thor. You are opposed to players being able to choose their destiny. Who is being close minded here? I'm asking for something that would have zero impact on a solo players experience other than seeing a few green players in addition to the blue ones they've become accustomed to. You keep saying it would be a chore to have to leave the squad or whatever, but there is simply zero reason to do so. Your reasoning against this is insane. This is a NPE improvement, one that many of the beta players benefited from without even realizing it. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 4802	Posted - 2014.09.30 14:57:00 - [44] - Quote I look forward to your next response. How many ways can you make seeing a few green players instead of all blue players sound like a bad thing? Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4850	Posted - 2014.10.02 19:55:00 - [45] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Adding forced squads wont do anything to encourage teamplay, did you not play MAG? It had the same issues. We need to encourage the whole team to play together not just squads... I would suggest replacing squad orders with team orders for everyone to see and take part in, even if they are soloing. This might just get a few people to visit the same points on the map even if they aren't in a squad together. Of course to stop 16 solo squads placing orders all over the map, it might need a limit on how many squads there are per team. Or you could just have solo players automatically thrown into squads. From one day to the next I doubt you'd see any difference in matches. Your proposal would have 16 players zerging from point to point and that would be really stupid. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5025	Posted - 2014.10.19 02:06:00 - [46] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time). A few things I think could improve the situation: 1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly. There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved. It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches. I think we should go other way around this and deploy matches without squads and mechanic to create one while in being in match. I'm solo player and I'm like it this - why match making mechanic is dropping me in to match against 6 guys from same corp while there is no squads in my team is beyond my understanding of balance match. Worst thing that dis-balance things when you have to fight against squads is that they share scanning range - 1 guy in squad is doing job of everyone. That's the point of the auto squads. There's an off chance you'd have a dude in your squad that has active or passive scans. Solo logis could take advantage of their own scanners. To me it opens up a lot of the game that many new players haven't experienced. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.

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