DUST Search - Team Balancing with Solo Players and The Lack of Team Play

Soraya Xel wrote:

SoTa Senpai wrote:

It will remain nothing but casual if we stick with your reasoning - there is a competitive and cut-throat side of this game that isn't show-cased EVEN IN THE SLIGHTEST.

that is a HUGE concern for this game, and you CPM should be all over fixing the NPE to include PC talks and incentive to be more then casual.

PC is inherently unfixable, IMHO. I'd definitely like to see FacWar play out as a much more hardcore and much more profitable institution though. NPE in general, is a very high priority, and easing the ability to collaborate with others is important.

This is not the way to do it. We have a squad finder that does this. It's very prominent, right next to the instant battle button.

If anything, I'd love to fix voice settings to default on, so that new players don't have to monkey in settings to be able to hear people. So when they DO choose to join a squad, it works well. And they can turn voice off if they need to. (On the other hand, if you auto-squad people, having voice on by default would be really really annoying.)

But forcing people into squads is wrong.


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SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 151	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:42:00 - [1] - Quote In a game specifically design for team based play, i thought it was ridiculous they even got rid of that system of auto-team deploy. The game doesn't explain this aspect of itself AT ALL. You would never realize from academy or any tutorial how everything comes together in this game, so no one will realize the important of teamwork until they've already probably committed to this game somewhat to explore and learn more. Most people will still be figuring out the market, suit, gear, stats, and how to make it all fit together, before they give any thought to how to actually encounter a match to win. This is one of the major reasons people feel like such blue berries in this game - they aren't guided enough. With squads pre-deployed for those not already in one Should be available option for solo play, a switch in option to turn off auto squadding that would mean at those who care enough to try can use what advantages being in a squad gives without bashing there heads waiting for a decent squad in squad finder. auto squading would make the squad search system give the game even more of an edge over competition, in this day in age any option is better then none.
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 152	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:58:00 - [2] - Quote There's several strange arguments in here, kinda making me scratch my head at your reasonings. Firstly: What game have you played when you're in a team and certain team mates are a different color you don't automatically realize what's going on? Most people will grasp quick that it means teamwork is employed in this game, and it will show-case to people to explore this route more aggressively then if they were just put in solo play. And seeing how focused Dust is on this subject, it's imperative Dust does everything it can to bring people together, to an extent. And auto-placing people is a great method. You can reason it out by saying TTK in this game makes this FPS experience closer to an MMO experience, as you'll be doing actual gun fights with others - so teamwork will shine light the sun in a dark sky. MMO's are all about concentrate fire on important targets - Dust is much the same. Secondly: The importance of class choice is really shown when you decide where to place your SP to benefit a team rather then yourself. Forcing people into squads means a certain type of player, logistical, one who has suffered for over a year now, can more easily enjoy his role without needing others or waiting for a squad to form. As well as other roles, such as Scout, Sniper, LAV Pilot, DS, and AV. Slayers have always had it too easy in this game, being able to pretty much do a little of everything and being able to survive solo for it - other classes don't have it so easy, and believe it or not, heave is one of them.
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:04:00 - [3] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: If we're facing a 16 with 2 full squads in it solo players usually only help the enemy team?! And here's the problem. Here's why this idea is dumb and doesn't solve it. Right now, matchmaking has been fixed to avoid these imbalances. But Thor's system would reintroduce the imbalance, by putting everyone, competent or not, in squads together. Breaking the ability to use squad organization as a useful matchmaking flag. How? What exactly is the formula for the match making system? Because as it stands, it's still broken, and has been broken even when we had a population to back it in open beta. Thors system improves NPE and potentially gives Blue Berries reasons to get good. Your argument sounds more like CCP told you it would be too much work to re-program anything.
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:10:00 - [4] - Quote Soraya - go talk to CCP and ask them if it's possible to add more parameters to the match making system, as in, you know, add in that solo players will get grouped up, so add that to the function? You know, cause, programming, is, you know, creative? I don't understand how this is hard. Are you telling me they can make a burning tree on PC but they can't add parameters to match making? And instead of saying no to Thor - how about take Thors ideas and think of a better way to bring people together? Because that's all he's trying to accomplish - help get people out of blue berry status faster through teamwork rather then gear grind.
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:16:00 - [5] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: SoTa Senpai wrote: Soraya - go talk to CCP and ask them if it's possible to add more parameters to the match making system, as in, you know, add in that solo players will get grouped up, so add that to the function? You know, cause, programming, is, you know, creative? I don't understand how this is hard. Are you telling me they can make a burning tree on PC but they can't add parameters to match making? He assumes that all the new players that enter the game want to play solo apparently. and your assuming people want the full Dust experience in a mostly casual game. But Soraya's views really do seem to be CCP sucky sucky like. Your concept at it's core is what they need to look at - not necessarily how you wanted to implement it. This is why current CPM is bad :)
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:27:00 - [6] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: SoTa Senpai wrote: and your assuming people want the full Dust experience in a mostly casual game. This. It will remain nothing but casual if we stick with your reasoning - there is a competitive and cut-throat side of this game that isn't show-cased EVEN IN THE SLIGHTEST. that is a HUGE concern for this game, and you CPM should be all over fixing the NPE to include PC talks and incentive to be more then casual.
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 155	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:31:00 - [7] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Players can at any point leave the squad if they are 'anti-squad' for any reason and at the end of the battle it might get people talking with one and other. So, players like myself should be forced to, every match, pause to go into the chat window, find the squad chat thing, and leave squad? I can tell you I'd find that annoying. On the opposite side, if I want a squad as a new player, I'd have to go hunt one down that may never deploy, or make one that no one may show up too. I wonder which is more annoying?
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 156	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:41:00 - [8] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: SoTa Senpai wrote: It will remain nothing but casual if we stick with your reasoning - there is a competitive and cut-throat side of this game that isn't show-cased EVEN IN THE SLIGHTEST. that is a HUGE concern for this game, and you CPM should be all over fixing the NPE to include PC talks and incentive to be more then casual. PC is inherently unfixable, IMHO. I'd definitely like to see FacWar play out as a much more hardcore and much more profitable institution though. NPE in general, is a very high priority, and easing the ability to collaborate with others is important. This is not the way to do it. We have a squad finder that does this. It's very prominent, right next to the instant battle button. If anything, I'd love to fix voice settings to default on, so that new players don't have to monkey in settings to be able to hear people. So when they DO choose to join a squad, it works well. And they can turn voice off if they need to. (On the other hand, if you auto-squad people, having voice on by default would be really really annoying.) But forcing people into squads is wrong. It doesn't have to be forced, if you can program in the auto-squad then putting in the option switch to turn it off is a few simple steps. I am quite sick of CCP saying what's not possible due to effort when they put all there effort into **** that doesn't matter, like LEGION. There's no telling if anything they do there will be compatible here, so if that project gets rejected like so-many-others-things-they've-done then it's just wasted effort. But asking for them to put in a flip switch in the game to massively improve convenience in the game for it's players that could lead to many other positive factors? WAAAAY too hard. Even when it's programming on a beginners level. So march back to CCP and have them explain to you exactly why these simple options are always out of reach for us - yet they have time to waste making a fourth game that's not even green lit. Because everywhere I see simple suggestions it's met with: "Can't do it cause CCP." How do you expect to fix NPE or accomplish anything with that stupid crap attitude?
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 156	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:45:00 - [9] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Well hopefully CCP thinks you are a stupid as you are showing to be here. Maybe we can talk when you're done having your tantrum. The whole "last word, drop mic, and block on Skype" thing was real mature. ;) As I already told you, SirManBoy is a CPM member who would probably be all for this. But I'm not going to support a design that I feel is abusive to player choice. I'm fairly upset that one of our player representatives is showing his ass about something that would help new players more than any tutorial or squad finder. Squad finder is great for people in an corp or alliance, but many times the public finder has squads at the top that people jump in and out of because the squad leader is AFK. I think it's best just to ignore Soraya - it's obvious his posts are meant to incite rather then involve. He doesn't care for PC or asking CCP to do anything that requires effort and he's made that very clear. So any effort to bring players to a more competitive crowd he is going to be against. We have another Zatara, folks. Great, we put in another puppet as CPM.
SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 156	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:49:00 - [10] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I know how SMB feels on the issue, I don't need to ask him about stuff like this. He sees the beauty of team play in Dust and the fact that it's one of the main things that sets Dust apart from other FPS. So ALL of the CPM members should represent Thor Odinson42's personal opinion then? And if they don't, you throw a tantrum, call them names, and then block them on Skype? LOL Grabs popcorn Soraya has a point btw, just because he's blind doesn't change who he is - but he's not being very observant of his position and what it means for a CPM to be posting the way he is in your thread.

SoTa Senpai Ametat Security Amarr Empire 156	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:41:00 - [11] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Avinash, would you consider DUST a large scale battle game? :) So, Mr. CPM, are you saying that there is no potential whatsoever for Dust to become a "large scale battle game"? Is it possible or is that being saved for Project Legion too? You can expect 24 vs 24 at best for Legion. The servers stability isn't going to change switching from PS3 to PC, and they could barely handle 16 vs 16.