DUST Search - Team Balancing with Solo Players and The Lack of Team Play

Mobius Kaethis wrote:

Thor Odinson42 wrote:

I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time).

A few things I think could improve the situation:

1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge
2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like)

By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly.

There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved.

It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches.

Agreed. Thor and I were in a squad that got stomped for 10 games in a row last night. Every match we entered hopeful played extremely hard only to realize our teamates had given up 2 minutes in leaving the enemy to focus all 16 of their players on us. It was brutal.

Something needs to be done to encourage more team play and actually trying to win.

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Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4723	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:27:00 - [1] - Quote I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time). A few things I think could improve the situation: 1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly. There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved. It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1847	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:31:00 - [2] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time). A few things I think could improve the situation: 1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly. There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved. It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches. Agreed. Thor and I were in a squad that got stomped for 10 games in a row last night. Every match we entered hopeful played extremely hard only to realize our teamates had given up 2 minutes in leaving the enemy to focus all 16 of their players on us. It was brutal. Something needs to be done to encourage more team play and actually trying to win. Now with more evil.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3678	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:33:00 - [3] - Quote Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2156	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:33:00 - [4] - Quote Bump match size to 18v18 have 3 squads on either side and autoload them? Only question then is how do you decide who is SL? "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3143	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:44:00 - [5] - Quote I'd just drop and squad I was allocated to. If I must suffer the presence of pubbies in my squad they will be pubbies of my choosing.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2156	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:48:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I'd just drop and squad I was allocated to. If I must suffer the presence of pubbies in my squad they will be pubbies of my choosing. What if dropping squad dropped you out of the match? "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3679	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:49:00 - [7] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I'd just drop and squad I was allocated to. If I must suffer the presence of pubbies in my squad they will be pubbies of my choosing. What if dropping squad dropped you out of the match? Isn't that treating players poorly? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3145	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:51:00 - [8] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I'd just drop and squad I was allocated to. If I must suffer the presence of pubbies in my squad they will be pubbies of my choosing. What if dropping squad dropped you out of the match? Forcibly inflicting me upon unsuspecting pubbie squads has been classified as a war crime in all four empires, prosecutable by CONCORD and punishable by death.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4725	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:51:00 - [9] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. You can still play solo. There's just an off chance that those solo players could accumulate enough points for an orbital as well as the other benefits of squad play such as shared scans and being able to enter a vehicle sooner. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4725	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:53:00 - [10] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Automatically placing players in squads doesn't solve any problems. It tries to obscure the problem. The problem is organized, coordinated squads being matched against solo players. Auto-shoving them into a squad doesn't make six solo players organized. And Thor, there's a ton of people who prefer to play solo. I'm not sure why you're crusading so hard to tell people that they must play the game the way you want them to. It's supposed to be a sandbox (in theory), where people can play how they want. Sandbox without a sandbox, economic factors without an actual market. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2156	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:55:00 - [11] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I'd just drop and squad I was allocated to. If I must suffer the presence of pubbies in my squad they will be pubbies of my choosing. What if dropping squad dropped you out of the match? Isn't that treating players poorly? I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". I mean, it isn't like you can't start a squad (invite people or be happy with who the servers ally with you) or join one from the finder (only join squads led by people you enjoy playing with or keep joining them until you find a squad you can stomach). It isn't like there aren't tools there to help you refrain from being put into a squad with random "pubbies", if you're not going to use them then don't complain. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3683	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:55:00 - [12] - Quote I don't think the possibility of an orbital issued to an arbitrary solo player is a justifiable reason to force soloers to squad. Entering a vehicle sooner is more a sign of a systemic problem with vehicle locking being a thing. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4725	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:55:00 - [13] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Bump match size to 18v18 have 3 squads on either side and autoload them? Only question then is how do you decide who is SL? Completely random I'd guess Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4726	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:01:00 - [14] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I don't think the possibility of an orbital issued to an arbitrary solo player is a justifiable reason to force soloers to squad. Entering a vehicle sooner is more a sign of a systemic problem with vehicle locking being a thing. There would be literally ZERO difference in the solo derping players experience other than seeing some green dudes and a circle instead of all blue dudes and no circle. I don't see how this negatively affects them in any way. If they wanted to leave squad they could. However it COULD possibly lead some players to embrace the team style of play and that would be a good thing for Dust. If you don't see that then I'm sorry that I voted for you. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4726	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:03:00 - [15] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I don't think the system works as well as it should be due to the massive amounts of solo players. I can't see if the other team is without squads, but it happens a LOT where you deploy in and there isn't a single person in a squad on your team (yes I solo from time to time). A few things I think could improve the situation: 1) Automatically placing players in squads as they reach the warbarge 2) Automatically placing the defend order on the squad leader (he/she can change it to someone else if they'd like) By the off chance there may be some of these players that realize the potential and importance of playing as a squad. Besides the in depth skill system Dust 514's greatest attribute is the team play features. It's been ignored for so long I think the game play has deteriorated significantly. There are many, many more game play styles available than we had in beta, but I squads were abundant and the matches felt like there was some strategy and skill involved. It is NOT fun to continually feel as though you are 6 v 16 in matches. Agreed. Thor and I were in a squad that got stomped for 10 games in a row last night. Every match we entered hopeful played extremely hard only to realize our teamates had given up 2 minutes in leaving the enemy to focus all 16 of their players on us. It was brutal. Something needs to be done to encourage more team play and actually trying to win. Before you joined there was a match where only one player managed more than 100 WP outside of our squad (it got 230 or something like that). This tells me that they are new players. New players that might benefit from seeing the positive effects of being in a squad. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3147	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:06:00 - [16] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". I mean, it isn't like you can't start a squad (invite people or be happy with who the servers ally with you) or join one from the finder (only join squads led by people you enjoy playing with or keep joining them until you find a squad you can stomach). It isn't like there aren't tools there to help you refrain from being put into a squad with random "pubbies", if you're not going to use them then don't complain. Most players are idiot olympic gold winners. There is no advantage to playing with most and bluntly 9 out of 10 times I am deeply occupied putting vehicle drivers and ADS pilots in their proper place (in the grave) to give a rippling crap what the redt of you are doing. You take points, kill people, whatever. My AV mission keeping that crap off your asses won't be assisted by listening to a bunch of idiot mouth-breathers go full nerdrage when someone manages to gank them. So no. Take your forced squad idea and put it elsewhere. If it becomes a thing I'll just make a squad and lock it and STILL fly solo.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4726	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:10:00 - [17] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". I mean, it isn't like you can't start a squad (invite people or be happy with who the servers ally with you) or join one from the finder (only join squads led by people you enjoy playing with or keep joining them until you find a squad you can stomach). It isn't like there aren't tools there to help you refrain from being put into a squad with random "pubbies", if you're not going to use them then don't complain. Most players are idiot olympic gold winners. There is no advantage to playing with most and bluntly 9 out of 10 times I am deeply occupied putting vehicle drivers and ADS pilots in their proper place (in the grave) to give a rippling crap what the redt of you are doing. You take points, kill people, whatever. My AV mission keeping that crap off your asses won't be assisted by listening to a bunch of idiot mouth-breathers go full nerdrage when someone manages to gank them. So no. Take your forced squad idea and put it elsewhere. If it becomes a thing I'll just make a squad and lock it and STILL fly solo. I fail to see how it would affect you negatively. You could leave the defend order on yourself and accumulated enough WP for an OB. Then you could get off by waiting in the screen for an RDV to be dropped and take it out along with the vehicle and the person(s) waiting for it. You could disable voice and never even have to listen to anyone. However your efforts would be compounded. Hell maybe one of the squad members would take note of your efforts and wish to replicate it. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3686	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:15:00 - [18] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". So, if say, 50% of players were playing DUST solo (I actually have no idea what the number on this would be, CCP hasn't told me, and I couldn't tell you if I knew.), you would say CCP should tell that 50% of it's playerbase to eff off and go play a different game? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2156	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:17:00 - [19] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". I mean, it isn't like you can't start a squad (invite people or be happy with who the servers ally with you) or join one from the finder (only join squads led by people you enjoy playing with or keep joining them until you find a squad you can stomach). It isn't like there aren't tools there to help you refrain from being put into a squad with random "pubbies", if you're not going to use them then don't complain. Most players are idiot olympic gold winners. There is no advantage to playing with most and bluntly 9 out of 10 times I am deeply occupied putting vehicle drivers and ADS pilots in their proper place (in the grave) to give a rippling crap what the redt of you are doing. You take points, kill people, whatever. My AV mission keeping that crap off your asses won't be assisted by listening to a bunch of idiot mouth-breathers go full nerdrage when someone manages to gank them. So no. Take your forced squad idea and put it elsewhere. If it becomes a thing I'll just make a squad and lock it and STILL fly solo. i would imagine that if they implemented the idea as I described, they would remove the ability to lock a squad (or allow the server to override that lock to place players for the match). I would tend to agree with you honestly though. I generally run solo, doing my own thing, however, I also am usually a team player even when running solo. I also think I see this idea as being good to the overall health of the game rather than a detriment to my own personal solo playstyle. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2158	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:22:00 - [20] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". So, if say, 50% of players were playing DUST solo (I actually have no idea what the number on this would be, CCP hasn't told me, and I couldn't tell you if I knew.), you would say CCP should tell that 50% of it's playerbase to eff off and go play a different game? I'd say >50% of the playerbase cries for respecs (or has) and CCP consistently tells them to "eff off and go play a different game". Hell, they've even basically added that to the login page (not giving them out, don't bother asking). There is also the thought that if this were to be implemented, there would be nothing stopping CCP from adding a solo only game mode (or version of each game mode). "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3149	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:24:00 - [21] - Quote I will make the lives of everone who squads with me hell if I am not allowed to dictate who I wish to play with.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4727	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:26:00 - [22] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". So, if say, 50% of players were playing DUST solo (I actually have no idea what the number on this would be, CCP hasn't told me, and I couldn't tell you if I knew.), you would say CCP should tell that 50% of it's playerbase to eff off and go play a different game? I'd say >50% of the playerbase cries for respecs (or has) and CCP consistently tells them to "eff off and go play a different game". Hell, they've even basically added that to the login page (not giving them out, don't bother asking). There is also the thought that if this were to be implemented, there would be nothing stopping CCP from adding a solo only game mode (or version of each game mode). I'd LOVE it if regular ambush was no squad, no vehicle solo play. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4728	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:32:00 - [23] - Quote This game went from me pleading to get a cheaper low risk team deploy option to prepare for planetary conquest to me just wishing some of the droves of solo players could automatically be thrown into squads to perhaps nudge them toward team play. How much further does the team play aspect need to erode before someone throws it a bone? Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2158	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:36:00 - [24] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I would view it more as saying "you want to play a squad based game, so be in a squad or don't play the game". So, if say, 50% of players were playing DUST solo (I actually have no idea what the number on this would be, CCP hasn't told me, and I couldn't tell you if I knew.), you would say CCP should tell that 50% of it's playerbase to eff off and go play a different game? I'd say >50% of the playerbase cries for respecs (or has) and CCP consistently tells them to "eff off and go play a different game". Hell, they've even basically added that to the login page (not giving them out, don't bother asking). There is also the thought that if this were to be implemented, there would be nothing stopping CCP from adding a solo only game mode (or version of each game mode). I'd LOVE it if regular ambush was no squad, no vehicle solo play. Yeah, that would be cool, just a bunch of guys competing for Alpha Predator. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2158	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:39:00 - [25] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I will make the lives of everone who squads with me hell if I am not allowed to dictate who I wish to play with. The thing is, you can still dictate who you play with, squad with alliance mates/corpies or find a tolerable squad in the squad finder. Either way you are dictating who you play with with the only restriction being that you must play with 5 other people in squad with you. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4728	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:45:00 - [26] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I will make the lives of everone who squads with me hell if I am not allowed to dictate who I wish to play with. The thing is, you can still dictate who you play with, squad with alliance mates/corpies or find a tolerable squad in the squad finder. Either way you are dictating who you play with, with the only restriction being that you must play with 5 other people in squad with you. I think that preventing leaving squad in the warbarge or in game could have some implications in PC. People DC and you have to bring people in or someone changes roles and switches squad mid battle. To me even if only 20% of players stayed in the squad they were thrown into it would be a win. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2158	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:51:00 - [27] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I will make the lives of everone who squads with me hell if I am not allowed to dictate who I wish to play with. The thing is, you can still dictate who you play with, squad with alliance mates/corpies or find a tolerable squad in the squad finder. Either way you are dictating who you play with, with the only restriction being that you must play with 5 other people in squad with you. I think that preventing leaving squad in the warbarge or in game could have some implications in PC. People DC and you have to bring people in or someone changes roles and switches squad mid battle. To me even if only 20% of players stayed in the squad they were thrown into it would be a win. lolPC is a totally different beast from the pubs I am talking about. I could see this working in FW too, though lolPC is intended to be totally player directed so it would make sense to have the exception present there if you ask me. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 3152	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:52:00 - [28] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I don't think the possibility of an orbital issued to an arbitrary solo player is a justifiable reason to force soloers to squad. Entering a vehicle sooner is more a sign of a systemic problem with vehicle locking being a thing. Because having teammates steal hundreds of thousands of ISK in assets to lose it in 2 minutes promotes team play Tanker/Logi/Assault
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4728	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:56:00 - [29] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I will make the lives of everone who squads with me hell if I am not allowed to dictate who I wish to play with. The thing is, you can still dictate who you play with, squad with alliance mates/corpies or find a tolerable squad in the squad finder. Either way you are dictating who you play with, with the only restriction being that you must play with 5 other people in squad with you. I think that preventing leaving squad in the warbarge or in game could have some implications in PC. People DC and you have to bring people in or someone changes roles and switches squad mid battle. To me even if only 20% of players stayed in the squad they were thrown into it would be a win. lolPC is a totally different beast from the pubs I am talking about. I could see this working in FW too, though lolPC is intended to be totally player directed so it would make sense to have the exception present there if you ask me. The only reason that I brought up PC, is that changing the ability to leave squad in a pub is likely to affect the ability to leave squad in PC. Level 4 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1311	Posted - 2014.09.25 17:21:00 - [30] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: I don't think the possibility of an orbital issued to an arbitrary solo player is a justifiable reason to force soloers to squad. Entering a vehicle sooner is more a sign of a systemic problem with vehicle locking being a thing. There would be literally ZERO difference in the solo derping players experience other than seeing some green dudes and a circle instead of all blue dudes and no circle. I don't see how this negatively affects them in any way. If they wanted to leave squad they could. However it COULD possibly lead some players to embrace the team style of play and that would be a good thing for Dust. If you don't see that then I'm sorry that I voted for you. Being in a squad doesn't necessary mean more effective play - the use of comms, and through communication the ability to coordinate and focus as a squad on given goals and objectives (cover my hack, bro!, etc.) is invaluable and 6 random soloers thrown into a squad wouldn't help that. I've hopped into existing squads in FW only to find they were all randoms, likely having squadded through squad finder, and none had mics active. All of them went their own way as soon as the match started (which is fine if it's an all scout squad, but not with heavies and logis and such. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.



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