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Funkmaster Whale
Fatal Absolution
2397
   |
Posted - 2014.09.05 18:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
I posted this in Feedback but it seems like more people pay attention to GD.
I won't go into a long tirade as to why red dots appearing through walls is a stupid idea. It should speak for itself. The simple fact of knowing someone's position through a wall gives such a massive advantage that in almost any other FPS game it would be considered a wallhack and thus a banable offense.
I play Scout (since 1.8 of course) and have been making use of this nonsense since before Active Scans were nerfed, and the simple fact is it's unfair. It's unfair that I can be ready to unload my clip in someone's face the milisecond they turn the corner while they have absolutely no idea I'm there because I'm a damped scout. EWar is a good premise with really shoddy execution. I can understand CCP wants Scouts to be "intel providers" or whatever, but what they've done has inadvertently pushed all slayers like myself towards Scouts because it's become a game of wallhack or be wallhacked.
My suggestion may not be easy to execute because it's probably not just changing some variable, but I really think we need to get rid of red dots appearing through walls via passive scans. Red dots should appear after you've "spotted" someone a la targeted them with your weapon and should remain visible for a few seconds thereafter, but the simple "wallhack radius of death" shouldn't exist in any FPS game. The red dots should appear only on your radar such that you can look at it occasionally, see some red dots in your radius and be advised "Ok, I know there's enemies around me but I don't know if they're above me, below me, around the corner, etc". With how it works now, I see a red dot through the wall and if he doesn't know I'm there it's 99% likely I'll kill him before he can even respond.
It's silly to have a constant free flow of information regarding enemy positions with absolutely no drawback. Get rid of the wallhacks.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Soulja Ghostface
MCDUSTDONALDS
Top Men.
2708
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 18:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Go play call of duty.
Roles mastered- HAV/ADS/LDS/Forum Lord/Working on Assault
Pinned down? Let my tank scatter enemies for you v(^_^)v
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
878
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Posted - 2014.09.05 18:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:I posted this in Feedback but it seems like more people pay attention to GD.
I won't go into a long tirade as to why red dots appearing through walls is a stupid idea. It should speak for itself. The simple fact of knowing someone's position through a wall gives such a massive advantage that in almost any other FPS game it would be considered a wallhack and thus a banable offense.
I play Scout (since 1.8 of course) and have been making use of this nonsense since before Active Scans were nerfed, and the simple fact is it's unfair. It's unfair that I can be ready to unload my clip in someone's face the milisecond they turn the corner while they have absolutely no idea I'm there because I'm a damped scout. EWar is a good premise with really shoddy execution. I can understand CCP wants Scouts to be "intel providers" or whatever, but what they've done has inadvertently pushed all slayers like myself towards Scouts because it's become a game of wallhack or be wallhacked.
My suggestion may not be easy to execute because it's probably not just changing some variable, but I really think we need to get rid of red dots appearing through walls via passive scans. Red dots should appear after you've "spotted" someone a la targeted them with your weapon and should remain visible for a few seconds thereafter, but the simple "wallhack radius of death" shouldn't exist in any FPS game. The red dots should appear only on your radar such that you can look at it occasionally, see some red dots in your radius and be advised "Ok, I know there's enemies around me but I don't know if they're above me, below me, around the corner, etc". With how it works now, I see a red dot through the wall and if he doesn't know I'm there it's 99% likely I'll kill him before he can even respond.
It's silly to have a constant free flow of information regarding enemy positions with absolutely no drawback. Get rid of the wallhacks.
I agree. Skip to 7:40 in my CR vs BAR video. I rage about this a little bit while I'm abusing it.
http://youtu.be/qqiWBB6gWXw
YouTube
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Funkmaster Whale
Fatal Absolution
2399
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 18:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Soulja Ghostface wrote:Go play call of duty.
I'm fine, thank you.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
878
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 18:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soulja Ghostface wrote:Go play call of duty.
Happens in call of duty for a limited amount of time with a high end killstreak. I've said this before. Playing as a Scout with a high alpha damage weapon is Dust 514 CoD mode with an always on Blackbird or a VSAT killstreak.
YouTube
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Funkmaster Whale
Fatal Absolution
2399
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 18:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
http://www.twitch.tv/funkmasterwhale/c/4225854
Skip to about 9 minutes and watch how OP EWar is.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Death Shadow117
Murphys-Law
351
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 19:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ive never seen these wallhacks everyone bitches about but thats probably because i stare at my minimap looking for reds like a good scout.
Why?
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
17543
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 19:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
The ability to see exactly where people are and the direction they are facing in potentially at all times in a large area is ridiculously broken.
I'm sure some, particularly scouts, will defend the concept, but it is broken.
Unfortunately, I can't see it going anywhere.
Flying to new horizons.
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843-Vika
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
276
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 19:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:I posted this in Feedback but it seems like more people pay attention to GD.
I won't go into a long tirade as to why red dots appearing through walls is a stupid idea. It should speak for itself. The simple fact of knowing someone's position through a wall gives such a massive advantage that in almost any other FPS game it would be considered a wallhack and thus a banable offense.
I play Scout (since 1.8 of course) and have been making use of this nonsense since before Active Scans were nerfed, and the simple fact is it's unfair. It's unfair that I can be ready to unload my clip in someone's face the milisecond they turn the corner while they have absolutely no idea I'm there because I'm a damped scout. EWar is a good premise with really shoddy execution. I can understand CCP wants Scouts to be "intel providers" or whatever, but what they've done has inadvertently pushed all slayers like myself towards Scouts because it's become a game of wallhack or be wallhacked.
My suggestion may not be easy to execute because it's probably not just changing some variable, but I really think we need to get rid of red dots appearing through walls via passive scans. Red dots should appear after you've "spotted" someone a la targeted them with your weapon and should remain visible for a few seconds thereafter, but the simple "wallhack radius of death" shouldn't exist in any FPS game. The red dots should appear only on your radar such that you can look at it occasionally, see some red dots in your radius and be advised "Ok, I know there's enemies around me but I don't know if they're above me, below me, around the corner, etc". With how it works now, I see a red dot through the wall and if he doesn't know I'm there it's 99% likely I'll kill him before he can even respond.
It's silly to have a constant free flow of information regarding enemy positions with absolutely no drawback. Get rid of the wallhacks.
There are no such thing as wall hacks in dust, if a person has maxed out Ewar skills then they should be able to not be seen on the mini map of others that don't have those skills maxed out.
Ewar is not wallhacking it's part of the game, so learn to live with it or go back to Crap of Doody |
Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
793
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 19:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:I posted this in Feedback but it seems like more people pay attention to GD.
I won't go into a long tirade as to why red dots appearing through walls is a stupid idea. It should speak for itself. The simple fact of knowing someone's position through a wall gives such a massive advantage that in almost any other FPS game it would be considered a wallhack and thus a banable offense.
I play Scout (since 1.8 of course) and have been making use of this nonsense since before Active Scans were nerfed, and the simple fact is it's unfair. It's unfair that I can be ready to unload my clip in someone's face the milisecond they turn the corner while they have absolutely no idea I'm there because I'm a damped scout. EWar is a good premise with really shoddy execution. I can understand CCP wants Scouts to be "intel providers" or whatever, but what they've done has inadvertently pushed all slayers like myself towards Scouts because it's become a game of wallhack or be wallhacked.
My suggestion may not be easy to execute because it's probably not just changing some variable, but I really think we need to get rid of red dots appearing through walls via passive scans. Red dots should appear after you've "spotted" someone a la targeted them with your weapon and should remain visible for a few seconds thereafter, but the simple "wallhack radius of death" shouldn't exist in any FPS game. The red dots should appear only on your radar such that you can look at it occasionally, see some red dots in your radius and be advised "Ok, I know there's enemies around me but I don't know if they're above me, below me, around the corner, etc". With how it works now, I see a red dot through the wall and if he doesn't know I'm there it's 99% likely I'll kill him before he can even respond.
It's silly to have a constant free flow of information regarding enemy positions with absolutely no drawback. Get rid of the wallhacks.
i find it legitimage.. as TACNET will overlay the location of scanned targets on your HUD like Augmented reality.. and as for passive scans.. its basically like hearing them move or like a type of ultrasonic sonar or something
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 1 Forum Pariah
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Reign Omega
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
810
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 19:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
ratamaq doc wrote:Soulja Ghostface wrote:Go play call of duty. Happens in call of duty for a limited amount of time with a high end killstreak. I've said this before. Playing as a Scout with a high alpha damage weapon is Dust 514 CoD mode with an always on Blackbird or a VSAT killstreak.
I always have the ghost perk equipped so I can lol and how laughable most people's gun game is when they can't see you on radar... -¦peers down at profile dampeners-¦
But seriously it's insane how slow some people's reaction time is when they can't see you on radar.
A display of sucking that rivals the highest amount of sucking that a player has displayed in the history of sucking.-JR
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843-Vika
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
276
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 19:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The ability to see exactly where people are and the direction they are facing in potentially at all times in a large area is ridiculously broken.
I'm sure some, particularly scouts, will defend the concept, but it is broken.
Unfortunately, I can't see it going anywhere.
Whats so broken about investing skill points into something. Only against the FoTM chasers that have no Ewar skills is it truely effective because that cant use there mini map the way it's supposed to be used.
If you have 2 people with there Ewar skills maxed out then it depends on the drop suit they use, call can see far away, gal can hide, ammar can see better at close range and min gets hacking speed.
Nothing is broken about it especially when we have mods that counter all that stuff. against ammar/cal you have dampening mods, against gal you have percision mods. Oh of course if yo focus on eHP then Ewar will look broken and OP especially since your not using the Ewar mods to counter the people that are using it.
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11990
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 20:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
While I agree, I feel like this will go nowhere.
It will be forgotten among the many threads of GD, never to even be considered by the devs.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
885
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 20:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The ability to see exactly where people are and the direction they are facing in potentially at all times in a large area is ridiculously broken.
I'm sure some, particularly scouts, will defend the concept, but it is broken.
Unfortunately, I can't see it going anywhere. Whats so broken about investing skill points into something. Only against the FoTM chasers that have no Ewar skills is it truely effective because that cant use there mini map the way it's supposed to be used. If you have 2 people with there Ewar skills maxed out then it depends on the drop suit they use, call can see far away, gal can hide, ammar can see better at close range and min gets hacking speed. Nothing is broken about it especially when we have mods that counter all that stuff. against ammar/cal you have dampening mods, against gal you have percision mods. Oh of course if yo focus on eHP then Ewar will look broken and OP especially since your not using the Ewar mods to counter the people that are using it.
Yes, good, great job, the scout community managed to balance themselves against each other. What you don't want to realize is that what a full ewar skilled Cal scout WAS vs the scout community is what every light frame is naturally to the medium frames. The problem is there is to wide of a gap between the light frames and medium frames at their base levels, then you stack core and suit skills on top of that to compound the problem. Add that to the passively seeing a chevron thru a wall and a HUD map that shows direction and insta kill weapons and you make for extremely frustrating gameplay for everyone but scouts.
YouTube
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
17546
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 20:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The ability to see exactly where people are and the direction they are facing in potentially at all times in a large area is ridiculously broken.
I'm sure some, particularly scouts, will defend the concept, but it is broken.
Unfortunately, I can't see it going anywhere. Whats so broken about investing skill points into something. Only against the FoTM chasers that have no Ewar skills is it truely effective because that cant use there mini map the way it's supposed to be used. If you have 2 people with there Ewar skills maxed out then it depends on the drop suit they use, call can see far away, gal can hide, ammar can see better at close range and min gets hacking speed. Nothing is broken about it especially when we have mods that counter all that stuff. against ammar/cal you have dampening mods, against gal you have percision mods. Oh of course if yo focus on eHP then Ewar will look broken and OP especially since your not using the Ewar mods to counter the people that are using it.
The 'FoTM chasers', as you put it, have EWAR skills. Anyone who uses a scout and does not have EWAR skills either lacks the SP or is not FoTM chasing.
And then you come up with this drivel about how the scouts are balanced against each other.
That is not the point here.
The point is that EWAR is ridiculously broken against everyone else.
I'm sure it's very fun to you to go on about how amazing your scout vs scout dynamics are, but when you have a literal wallhack, being able to see exactly where your opponents are at all times, in 3D space, and even being able to see the direction they're facing in, it is broken.
Let's not even pretend it takes 'skill' to sneak up on people like that.
... On second thoughts, you bring up some wonderful points. People invested SP, so it's not broken!
I invested SP in my TAR and Gallogi with triage hives and 360 scanners. Clearly those were fine!
Flying to new horizons.
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iliel
157
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Posted - 2014.09.05 21:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Do you run heavy now Funk? If not, come play a PC again to discover why wall-hacks are essential until either the 1.8k dps at 30 meters changes or the 2k ehp.
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Izlare Lenix
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
923
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 21:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
When logi slayers and 360 scanners were FOTM they were way more OP than scouts currently are.
A tripple damage modded, 900hp armor stacked gal logi with a rail rifle, sitting on hives with 100 meter 360 scans was the most op suit combination this game has ever seen. Especially since that was when RR were way OP and TTK was even lower than it is now.
I enjoy the current meta much more than before when "You have been scanned" was burned into my tv screen. And those logis also had wallhacks from their scanners, in addition to having more HP and more damage output than scouts currently do.
Gun control is not about guns...it's about control.
The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
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843-Vika
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
276
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 21:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:843-Vika wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The ability to see exactly where people are and the direction they are facing in potentially at all times in a large area is ridiculously broken.
I'm sure some, particularly scouts, will defend the concept, but it is broken.
Unfortunately, I can't see it going anywhere. Whats so broken about investing skill points into something. Only against the FoTM chasers that have no Ewar skills is it truely effective because that cant use there mini map the way it's supposed to be used. If you have 2 people with there Ewar skills maxed out then it depends on the drop suit they use, call can see far away, gal can hide, ammar can see better at close range and min gets hacking speed. Nothing is broken about it especially when we have mods that counter all that stuff. against ammar/cal you have dampening mods, against gal you have percision mods. Oh of course if yo focus on eHP then Ewar will look broken and OP especially since your not using the Ewar mods to counter the people that are using it. The 'FoTM chasers', as you put it, have EWAR skills. Anyone who uses a scout and does not have EWAR skills either lacks the SP or is not FoTM chasing. And then you come up with this drivel about how the scouts are balanced against each other. That is not the point here. The point is that EWAR is ridiculously broken against everyone else. I'm sure it's very fun to you to go on about how amazing your scout vs scout dynamics are, but when you have a literal wallhack, being able to see exactly where your opponents are at all times, in 3D space, and even being able to see the direction they're facing in, it is broken. Let's not even pretend it takes 'skill' to sneak up on people like that. ... On second thoughts, you bring up some wonderful points. People invested SP, so it's not broken! I invested SP in my TAR and Gallogi with triage hives and 360 scanners. Clearly those were fine!
Really so a FoTM chaser that is busy skilling into the next op suit and weapon will have the time to put sp into Ewar skills, now that is a joke.
I watched all the FoTM chasers cry that their scouts were not good enough when they had no sp in Ewar at all, just like i hear people cry they can't fit stuff on there suit when they ignore fitting skills.
As for assault( ill use cal assault as example) the cal assault just got an extra high slot, now how many went with an extra eHP mod instead of an eWAR mod?
Is it the games or devs fault if a person desides to ignore Ewar mods and focus on Ehp instead. If your saying that scouts are to OP because of ewar then don't focus on Ehp.
You don't need hp when you can see everything around you. That is why scouts are so OP as you put it, because wqe can see you before you see us, so we can plan out attack better then you.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
17549
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Posted - 2014.09.05 21:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:
Really so a FoTM chaser that is busy skilling into the next op suit and weapon will have the time to put sp into Ewar skills, now that is a joke.
I watched all the FoTM chasers cry that their scouts were not good enough when they had no sp in Ewar at all, just like i hear people cry they can't fit stuff on there suit when they ignore fitting skills.
Do you seriously believe that 'FoTM chasers' don't spec cores? Does it genuinely not occur to you that the vast majority of these people have vast sums of SP and maxed cores?
As someone on the low end of the higher tiers, I have every weapon protoed, every core skill maxed apart from things like hand-to-hand combat, and I have six protosuits just on my main.
If you do not believe that people spec EWAR skills, you are an idiot.
Quote:
As for assault( ill use cal assault as example) the cal assault just got an extra high slot, now how many went with an extra eHP mod instead of an eWAR mod?
Have you even looked at the EWAR stats on non-scout frames?
If you have, I dearly hope you are intelligent enough to realise how terrible an idea it is to try and EWAR fit an assault over a scout.
If not, then perhaps you should take steps to reduce your ignorance.
Quote:
Is it the games or devs fault if a person desides to ignore Ewar mods and focus on Ehp instead. If your saying that scouts are to OP because of ewar then don't focus on Ehp.
You don't need hp when you can see everything around you. That is why scouts are so OP as you put it, because wqe can see you before you see us, so we can plan out attack better then you.
Ah yes, here is that 'we'.
Of course you're a scout. It's nice to know that unfailingly there's always such bias in these discussions. I expect there'll be more of this 'us vs them' mentality in your reply.
The EWAR options available to non-scout frames are pitiful. Let's not even pretend for an instant that it's a genuinely viable option to EWAR fit them.
Reading your second-last sentence is hilarious to me.
That's the entire point.
You're right. You don't need HP when you can see everything around you, because seeing everything around you in such detail is so ludicrously strong an ability. I'm glad you realise that, even if that realisation is buried in your subconscious beneath all that bias.
Flying to new horizons.
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
887
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Posted - 2014.09.05 21:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:843-Vika wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The ability to see exactly where people are and the direction they are facing in potentially at all times in a large area is ridiculously broken.
I'm sure some, particularly scouts, will defend the concept, but it is broken.
Unfortunately, I can't see it going anywhere. Whats so broken about investing skill points into something. Only against the FoTM chasers that have no Ewar skills is it truely effective because that cant use there mini map the way it's supposed to be used. If you have 2 people with there Ewar skills maxed out then it depends on the drop suit they use, call can see far away, gal can hide, ammar can see better at close range and min gets hacking speed. Nothing is broken about it especially when we have mods that counter all that stuff. against ammar/cal you have dampening mods, against gal you have percision mods. Oh of course if yo focus on eHP then Ewar will look broken and OP especially since your not using the Ewar mods to counter the people that are using it. The 'FoTM chasers', as you put it, have EWAR skills. Anyone who uses a scout and does not have EWAR skills either lacks the SP or is not FoTM chasing. And then you come up with this drivel about how the scouts are balanced against each other. That is not the point here. The point is that EWAR is ridiculously broken against everyone else. I'm sure it's very fun to you to go on about how amazing your scout vs scout dynamics are, but when you have a literal wallhack, being able to see exactly where your opponents are at all times, in 3D space, and even being able to see the direction they're facing in, it is broken. Let's not even pretend it takes 'skill' to sneak up on people like that. ... On second thoughts, you bring up some wonderful points. People invested SP, so it's not broken! I invested SP in my TAR and Gallogi with triage hives and 360 scanners. Clearly those were fine! Really so a FoTM chaser that is busy skilling into the next op suit and weapon will have the time to put sp into Ewar skills, now that is a joke. I watched all the FoTM chasers cry that their scouts were not good enough when they had no sp in Ewar at all, just like i hear people cry they can't fit stuff on there suit when they ignore fitting skills. As for assault( ill use cal assault as example) the cal assault just got an extra high slot, now how many went with an extra eHP mod instead of an eWAR mod? Is it the games or devs fault if a person desides to ignore Ewar mods and focus on Ehp instead. If your saying that scouts are to OP because of ewar then don't focus on Ehp. You don't need hp when you can see everything around you. That is why scouts are so OP as you put it, because wqe can see you before you see us, so we can plan out attack better then you.
Ha, ewar mods on assaults. Ewar mods on Logis are practically useless, and assaults are 5 points higher than them. The problem is you base is now too low. A. 5 db base difference could be made up for with skills and mods, but when the first scout buff hit you guys were given a extra free 5db meaning the Logi needs to try and make up 10 points, the assaults 15. So yea I could sacrifice 2 highs with complex enhancers with full precision skills.... Now I can see a milita light frame! So worth it!
YouTube
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medomai grey
warravens
Capital Punishment.
963
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Posted - 2014.09.05 21:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Remove wall hacks? Sure. But only if dampening and cloaks are also removed.
What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1850
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Posted - 2014.09.05 21:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
I have to say there wasnt much complain about passives scan until caladari scout was introduced. Play PC in scout and see how
important 'wallhacks' are.
PSN Sil4ntChaozz
Anything you can do a RAPTOR can do better
Scout Devotee with moments of FACEPALM
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
891
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Posted - 2014.09.05 22:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:I have to say there wasnt much complain about passives scan until caladari scout was introduced. Play PC in scout and see how
important 'wallhacks' are.
There were a few of us that tried to point them out. But the focus back then was on active scanners. We said it then that passives were way worse than actives because 1. everyone but heavies could use the best active scanners and 2. Everyone but heavies could avoid them with the exception being the focused.
Now we are at a point where only scouts can really participate in the ewar game where before I could run an ADV Logi with two complex dampeners and an ADV active scanner and show up for the game. Back then I had no trouble yelling at everyone trying to hold on to their EHP crutch complaining about active scanners because like I said, most people could play the ewar game in their frame of choice.
Back then if you were scanned it was because you choose your fitting wrong, not because you were the wrong class (again, except for heavies) We tried to point out. We said back the, "you think the 'you have been scanned' is bad now? Wait till you have no warning when you're lit up." Everyone tries to champion the GalLogi with 4 focuses scanners as the scout counter and the GalLogis are like "F.U. I'm not fielding a 250k plus suit just to counter a pack of invisible meth heads for you"
Go back and watch some of Moody's videos from pre 1.7. He did a few on passive scans.
Or watch this video I made pre scout buff to show how powerful passive scanning was.
http://youtu.be/yYLsUI4XwCU
YouTube
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gustavo acosta
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
230
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Posted - 2014.09.06 01:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
E-war is fine, it's only useful if you sacrifice some of your tank, when you think about it scouts don't have much tank to begin with so that kinda balances it out. Active scanners were OP because you sacrificed nothing (beyond cpu/pg/an equipment slot) to get you're squad to see where all the enemies are.
I mean, I get that the squad shouldn't get the benefit of one person using E-war, but it can't be helped(apparently).
It's easy to counter also, just run a heavy/commando with a shotgun, they won't see it coming, or use profile dampeners...
Also calling it "Wall Hacks," is very bad ad hominen, I mean I had to go onto google to figure out what it meant. I also don't like the description because it suggests that it is a cheat, even thought it is working as intended by CCP's standards.
I would agree that E-war is wall hacking, but it's not the same because dust and cod are 2 complete different games. In dust, there's no way of know what you're enemy is carrying, so the advantage to see where they are is similair playing russian roulette(i.e. you know there's a bullet in there but you don't know which).
Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault
Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
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Reign Omega
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
816
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Posted - 2014.09.06 01:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Invisible meth heads lol....
A display of sucking that rivals the highest amount of sucking that a player has displayed in the history of sucking.-JR
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3084
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 01:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
iliel wrote:Do you run heavy now Funk? If not, come play a PC again to discover why wall-hacks are essential until either the 1.8k dps at 30 meters changes or the 2k ehp.
Git Gud?
A. If your running 2k ehp (which is impossible) you are a scrub heavy and will thus get rekt by a half decent scout.
B. Your supposed to use these wall hacks for flanking and a scout can get 2 shot gun shots off and the third comes out just as a heavy is able to turn around and get a burst off it generally only takes 3 shots to kill a heavy.
C. Burst is getting nerfed so your point is invalid.
Tanker/Logi/Assault
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Reign Omega
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
816
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Posted - 2014.09.06 01:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:iliel wrote:Do you run heavy now Funk? If not, come play a PC again to discover why wall-hacks are essential until either the 1.8k dps at 30 meters changes or the 2k ehp.
Git Gud? A. If your running 2k ehp (which is impossible) you are a scrub heavy and will thus get rekt by a half decent scout. B. Your supposed to use these wall hacks for flanking and a scout can get 2 shot gun shots off and the third comes out just as a heavy is able to turn around and get a burst off it generally only takes 3 shots to kill a heavy. C. Burst is getting nerfed so your point is invalid.
They shouldn't have messed with the burst as it was anyhow it was always the cats pajamas.
A display of sucking that rivals the highest amount of sucking that a player has displayed in the history of sucking.-JR
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Monty Mole Clone
Shiv M
208
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 01:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
as a solo player ive got no problem what so ever with the way scanning works in this game, i also run assault, commando more than scout + i have maxed out scan skills
lets just burn this motherfucker down
pew pew goes my scram rifle zap zap goes my scram pistol
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843-Vika
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
278
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 01:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:843-Vika wrote:
Really so a FoTM chaser that is busy skilling into the next op suit and weapon will have the time to put sp into Ewar skills, now that is a joke.
I watched all the FoTM chasers cry that their scouts were not good enough when they had no sp in Ewar at all, just like i hear people cry they can't fit stuff on there suit when they ignore fitting skills.
Do you seriously believe that 'FoTM chasers' don't spec cores? Does it genuinely not occur to you that the vast majority of these people have vast sums of SP and maxed cores? As someone on the low end of the higher tiers, I have every weapon protoed, every core skill maxed apart from things like hand-to-hand combat, and I have six protosuits just on my main. If you do not believe that people spec EWAR skills, you are an idiot. Quote:
As for assault( ill use cal assault as example) the cal assault just got an extra high slot, now how many went with an extra eHP mod instead of an eWAR mod?
Have you even looked at the EWAR stats on non-scout frames? If you have, I dearly hope you are intelligent enough to realise how terrible an idea it is to try and EWAR fit an assault over a scout. If not, then perhaps you should take steps to reduce your ignorance. Quote:
Is it the games or devs fault if a person desides to ignore Ewar mods and focus on Ehp instead. If your saying that scouts are to OP because of ewar then don't focus on Ehp.
You don't need hp when you can see everything around you. That is why scouts are so OP as you put it, because wqe can see you before you see us, so we can plan out attack better then you.
Ah yes, here is that 'we'. Of course you're a scout. It's nice to know that unfailingly there's always such bias in these discussions. I expect there'll be more of this 'us vs them' mentality in your reply. The EWAR options available to non-scout frames are pitiful. Let's not even pretend for an instant that it's a genuinely viable option to EWAR fit them. Reading your second-last sentence is hilarious to me. That's the entire point. You're right. You don't need HP when you can see everything around you, because seeing everything around you in such detail is so ludicrously strong an ability. I'm glad you realise that, even if that realisation is buried in your subconscious beneath all that bias.
Acutally I run the full line of suits, logi, assault, heavy and scout, but I started as a scout.
I never said FoTM chasers didn't max out core skills, but Ewar skills are not core skills, they are Ewar skills. |
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1104
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 03:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The ability to see exactly where people are and the direction they are facing in potentially at all times in a large area is ridiculously broken.
I'm sure some, particularly scouts, will defend the concept, but it is broken.
Unfortunately, I can't see it going anywhere. Whats so broken about investing skill points into something. Only against the FoTM chasers that have no Ewar skills is it truely effective because that cant use there mini map the way it's supposed to be used. If you have 2 people with there Ewar skills maxed out then it depends on the drop suit they use, call can see far away, gal can hide, ammar can see better at close range and min gets hacking speed. Nothing is broken about it especially when we have mods that counter all that stuff. against ammar/cal you have dampening mods, against gal you have percision mods. Oh of course if yo focus on eHP then Ewar will look broken and OP especially since your not using the Ewar mods to counter the people that are using it.
This is the same fallacious argument that the crutch tankers used, a tank can kill another tank therefore it is balanced if you want to kill a tank use a tank.
Because, that's why.
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
901
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Posted - 2014.09.06 03:58:00 -
[31] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:E-war is fine, it's only useful if you sacrifice some of your tank, when you think about it scouts don't have much tank to begin with so that kinda balances it out. Active scanners were OP because you sacrificed nothing (beyond cpu/pg/an equipment slot) to get you're squad to see where all the enemies are.
You're overstating the easy and usefulness that was the active active scanner vs the current state of scouts passives.
Passive on light a frame is:
Always on
Naturally lower than all other suits natural profile with Logi and above with max dampening skills. A Logi has to wear 1 complex dampener and an assault 2 to get below a skill less light frame.
Natural 50% further than Logis and 100% than assaults and heavies. A Logi needs max skills, and an assault and heavy need full skills and 2 complex range amps to out range a skill less light frame.
The story is the similar for dampening.
Full skills and 1 complex profile dampener to get below a militia light frame.
And your arguement about 'sacrificing tank, but almost doesn't mater because of low tank to begin with' makes my arguement for itself. If you get shot, you're going to die either way right? So it make more since for you to equip ewar mods than tank mods to make it impossible for even a Cal Assault wearing nothing but ewar mods to see you. But your not wearing these to get away from med frames, like a women who wears makeup for other women, you're wearing them because of the race to the bottom with other scouts. The mid frames are just collateral damage. They're practically NPCs to the scout vs scout game.
Active scanners on the other hand where:
A piece of equipment that despite your understatement, cost a slot. For Assaults, it was their only slot.
Limited duration, even though higher end ones or multiple users could perms scan. BUT
Everyone below a heavy could avoid them with max skills and 2 complex dampeners. 28 db was all you needed to worry about
And don't even think about using that BS focused scanner as a battle cry. I will drive this forum up your ass sideways. That thing was never used. I never got scanned by that thing. Ever. I would've known if I did. I was a double damped capable Logi the whole time. I saved up and max out my damping skills when I read what was coming in 1.4. Most of the time getting below 36 was all that was needed. 1 in 10 games I would have to switch to a double damp suit. I sacrificed tank back then to remain up scannable as a Logi! So your "but scouts have to give up tank" arguement is falling on deaf ears. And before you think I'm just saying all of this now because of the current state of things, I have the majority of my post history from 1.4 on and a few youtube videos to back up this statement.
The problem is simple and simply fix. Light frame's staring profile and precision is to low. Put basic scout suits back to 40 db profile and 45 db precision. And please for the love of god remove the Focused scanner from the game so scouts don't have a battle cry for the lower db. I hate that thing with all my gaming heart, not because of what it can do, but because of what it represents which is BS. That way you will have to equip ewar mods to get away from everyone who invest in scanners and mid frames will have a chance at avoiding your precision unless you use ewar mods. You all claim to be using them already correct? So it would be only different in that the med frames now have a seat at the table and the Gal Logi actually has a useful bonus.
And before you think it will be the same 'scannerenia' as before, remember the scanners themselves are still nerfed from easy 360 scans and all but the short range prox is permascan proof.
YouTube
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ReGnYuM
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Negative-Feedback
3221
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 04:13:00 -
[32] - Quote
Doc is really nailing it here, and really do hope that Ratti or CPM can chime in on this issue.
Personally, Passives scans need to be worked completely. You just can't have a highly mobile/ Alpha damage role equipped with a personal motion sensor.
I am firm believer that when you augment a roles slaying potential, that it needs to be a two or three step process contributed by other roles.
Example 1: Logi Scans: Assaults, Scouts, and Heavy Frames move in with the superior Intel
Example 2: Scout, using a cloak, Flanks behind and places uplinks. Assaults etc move in and proceed to flank and slay.
Escrow Removal and Acquisition- Our ERA has only just begun...
Gym Bro/ Meat Head -- CrossFit enthusiast
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
3979
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 04:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
ratamaq doc wrote:
Ha, ewar mods on assaults. Ewar mods on Logis are practically useless, and assaults are 5 points higher than them. The problem is you base is now too low. A. 5 db base difference could be made up for with skills and mods, but when the first scout buff hit you guys were given a extra free 5db meaning the Logi needs to try and make up 10 points, the assaults 15. So yea I could sacrifice 2 highs with complex enhancers with full precision skills.... Now I can see a milita light frame! So worth it!
IKR? Maths is hard!
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11992
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Posted - 2014.09.06 04:36:00 -
[34] - Quote
ratamaq doc wrote:PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:I have to say there wasnt much complain about passives scan until caladari scout was introduced. Play PC in scout and see how
important 'wallhacks' are. There were a few of us that tried to point them out. But the focus back then was on active scanners. We said it then that passives were way worse than actives because 1. everyone but heavies could use the best active scanners and 2. Everyone but heavies could avoid them with the exception being the focused. Now we are at a point where only scouts can really participate in the ewar game where before I could run an ADV Logi with two complex dampeners and an ADV active scanner and show up for the game. Back then I had no trouble yelling at everyone trying to hold on to their EHP crutch complaining about active scanners because like I said, most people could play the ewar game in their frame of choice. Back then if you were scanned it was because you choose your fitting wrong, not because you were the wrong class (again, except for heavies) We tried to point out. We said back the, "you think the 'you have been scanned' is bad now? Wait till you have no warning when you're lit up." Everyone tries to champion the GalLogi with 4 focuses scanners as the scout counter and the GalLogis are like "F.U. I'm not fielding a 250k plus suit just to counter a pack of invisible meth heads for you" Go back and watch some of Moody's videos from pre 1.7. He did a few on passive scans. Or watch this video I made pre scout buff to show how powerful passive scanning was. http://youtu.be/yYLsUI4XwCU
I do believe scanners needed to be nerfed, but they didn't need to be replaced by something even more ludicrous...
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4814
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 04:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:I posted this in Feedback but it seems like more people pay attention to GD.
I won't go into a long tirade as to why red dots appearing through walls is a stupid idea. It should speak for itself. The simple fact of knowing someone's position through a wall gives such a massive advantage that in almost any other FPS game it would be considered a wallhack and thus a banable offense.
I play Scout (since 1.8 of course) and have been making use of this nonsense since before Active Scans were nerfed, and the simple fact is it's unfair. It's unfair that I can be ready to unload my clip in someone's face the milisecond they turn the corner while they have absolutely no idea I'm there because I'm a damped scout. EWar is a good premise with really shoddy execution. I can understand CCP wants Scouts to be "intel providers" or whatever, but what they've done has inadvertently pushed all slayers like myself towards Scouts because it's become a game of wallhack or be wallhacked.
My suggestion may not be easy to execute because it's probably not just changing some variable, but I really think we need to get rid of red dots appearing through walls via passive scans. Red dots should appear after you've "spotted" someone a la targeted them with your weapon and should remain visible for a few seconds thereafter, but the simple "wallhack radius of death" shouldn't exist in any FPS game. The red dots should appear only on your radar such that you can look at it occasionally, see some red dots in your radius and be advised "Ok, I know there's enemies around me but I don't know if they're above me, below me, around the corner, etc". With how it works now, I see a red dot through the wall and if he doesn't know I'm there it's 99% likely I'll kill him before he can even respond.
It's silly to have a constant free flow of information regarding enemy positions with absolutely no drawback. Get rid of the wallhacks. i find it legitimage.. as TACNET will overlay the location of scanned targets on your HUD like Augmented reality.. and as for passive scans.. its basically like hearing them move or like a type of ultrasonic sonar or something
I like how you tried to justify bad gameplay with lore you tried to make up on the spot.
You must be a terrible player if you need the crutch this badly.
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HOWDIDHEKILLME
Dying to Reload
436
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 05:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
I see a lot of big corps in here... I also see you run scouts in squads with heavy/assault/commando backup in pubs, Factional and especially in PC ( it's necessary? ).
A lot of hate from people that I've seen use ( and admit using ) TAR, scanerina, gal cloak shotgun, condemning what they have done. Now your complaining about something you nullify with shared squad vision while you q-sync and pub stomp. ( daily I see your corps doin it ).
You all have years of sp above newbs but still q-sync in pubs and use all the stuff you complain about so in the meantime I'll go watch some black guys call each other *****... It makes more sense. ( btw no racism intended just a metaphor )
Lonewolf till I die
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Faquira Bleuetta
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
453
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 05:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:I posted this in Feedback but it seems like more people pay attention to GD.
I won't go into a long tirade as to why red dots appearing through walls is a stupid idea. It should speak for itself. The simple fact of knowing someone's position through a wall gives such a massive advantage that in almost any other FPS game it would be considered a wallhack and thus a banable offense.
I play Scout (since 1.8 of course) and have been making use of this nonsense since before Active Scans were nerfed, and the simple fact is it's unfair. It's unfair that I can be ready to unload my clip in someone's face the milisecond they turn the corner while they have absolutely no idea I'm there because I'm a damped scout. EWar is a good premise with really shoddy execution. I can understand CCP wants Scouts to be "intel providers" or whatever, but what they've done has inadvertently pushed all slayers like myself towards Scouts because it's become a game of wallhack or be wallhacked.
My suggestion may not be easy to execute because it's probably not just changing some variable, but I really think we need to get rid of red dots appearing through walls via passive scans. Red dots should appear after you've "spotted" someone a la targeted them with your weapon and should remain visible for a few seconds thereafter, but the simple "wallhack radius of death" shouldn't exist in any FPS game. The red dots should appear only on your radar such that you can look at it occasionally, see some red dots in your radius and be advised "Ok, I know there's enemies around me but I don't know if they're above me, below me, around the corner, etc". With how it works now, I see a red dot through the wall and if he doesn't know I'm there it's 99% likely I'll kill him before he can even respond.
It's silly to have a constant free flow of information regarding enemy positions with absolutely no drawback. Get rid of the wallhacks.
nope |
Funkmaster Whale
Fatal Absolution
2419
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 06:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote:I see a lot of big corps in here... I also see you run scouts in squads with heavy/assault/commando backup in pubs, Factional and especially in PC ( it's necessary? ).
A lot of hate from people that I've seen use ( and admit using ) TAR, scanerina, gal cloak shotgun, condemning what they have done. Now your complaining about something you nullify with shared squad vision while you q-sync and pub stomp. ( daily I see your corps doin it ).
You all have years of sp above newbs but still q-sync in pubs and use all the stuff you complain about so in the meantime I'll go watch some black guys call each other *****... It makes more sense. ( btw no racism intended just a metaphor )
That's a very shallow interpretation of what's going on here. You seem to have this preconception that just because we've been around longer that we want to do everything in our power to sabotage the playerbase.
You completely misconstrue the point here. OF COURSE we would use these things. How else do you compete with other players who abuse broken mechanics? Is there some sort of moral code we have to abide where we all agree not to use them? The fact that so many top tier players use these things is because they're clearly broken, and in such a scenario the only way to stay competitive is to fight fire with fire.
Every single broken FotM piece of crap has been called out by vet players because it ruins gameplay when a certain mechanic becomes so saturated that you have to resort to a "if you can't beat em, join em" mentality. I'm talking about Duvolle TAC, Cal Logi, Fused Locus Grenades, Flaylocks, Mass Drivers, Active Scanners, Forge Guns, Tanks, Cloaks, Scouts, Rail + Combat Rifles, and I'm sure a few others. All of these have at some point been OP and called out by players like us who abused the hell out of them to make it apparent just how stupid they were.
For example, my Forge thread from forever ago where I demonstrated me going 60-0 two games in a row with an Assault Forge Gun by just sitting on top of a tower and blapping people. I asked them to nerf the splash on it because of how easy it was to two-shot people with just splash damage. It ended up being like 15+ pages and was subsequently nerfed in the next patch. A lot of players were saying I was an extreme case and that I cheated or abused the weapon and that it shouldn't be nerfed and blah blah, but there were plenty others like me who were abusing the exact same thing but just not wanting to be open about it.
Point is you gotta show the ridiculousness of certain mechanics if you want them to get fixed. It makes everyone better players and for a better game by not having very apparent crutches readily available in the game.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4132
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 06:53:00 -
[39] - Quote
What he said...funk hits the ******* nail on the head here.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1853
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Posted - 2014.09.06 06:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
As a scout we have to have an intel advantage but more not to the point it pacifiing your gameplay which is whats going on and always
going on so i dont think it cant be fixed. Cause we all know what happen when things get 'fixed.' Maybe im being to negative but
thats what i the think.
PSN Sil4ntChaozz
Anything you can do a RAPTOR can do better
Scout Devotee with moments of FACEPALM
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
1701
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
The problem is the pass/fail nature of passive scans. Either they always see you, or they never do. There's no dynamic, and it makes balance near impossible. If we ever get a client side update, I'd advise a revamp of the system into something dynamic, like people becoming harder to detect the farther away they are.
Shoot Scout with yes.
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4134
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem is the pass/fail nature of passive scans. Either they always see you, or they never do. There's no dynamic, and it makes balance near impossible. If we ever get a client side update, I'd advise a revamp of the system into something dynamic, like people becoming harder to detect the farther away they are.
This issue was much more engaging however pre 1.8 where I could decide with my logi or assault suit whether to damp enough to neutralize all but the 5 second active scanner...and completely nullify all passive scans with 3 damps.
The monopoly on the wallhack by scouts is a large part of the imbalance.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Funkmaster Whale
Fatal Absolution
2422
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem is the pass/fail nature of passive scans. Either they always see you, or they never do. There's no dynamic, and it makes balance near impossible. If we ever get a client side update, I'd advise a revamp of the system into something dynamic, like people becoming harder to detect the farther away they are. This issue was much more engaging however pre 1.8 where I could decide with my logi or assault suit whether to damp enough to neutralize all but the 5 second active scanner...and completely nullify all passive scans with 3 damps. The monopoly on the wallhack by scouts is a large part of the imbalance.
It was engaging for the 1% of players who knew about it and actively sought to counter it. For everyone else it was like ratamaq said, "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED" burned into your screen.
Ambush was literally blob warfare back then...
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
1701
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem is the pass/fail nature of passive scans. Either they always see you, or they never do. There's no dynamic, and it makes balance near impossible. If we ever get a client side update, I'd advise a revamp of the system into something dynamic, like people becoming harder to detect the farther away they are. This issue was much more engaging however pre 1.8 where I could decide with my logi or assault suit whether to damp enough to neutralize all but the 5 second active scanner...and completely nullify all passive scans with 3 damps. The monopoly on the wallhack by scouts is a large part of the imbalance.
To be honest, that is a scout's job. He should be able to see a lot of what's going on around him, that's what scouting is. The issue is how easily it is for them to act on their own with their knowledge as opposed to wait for backup and let the actual slayer suits do their work.
I suggested awhile back that scouts should only be allowed to equip sidearms, thus eliminating a large portion of this problem. As shotgun scouts are a beloved part of the game by the scout community, I would have basic light frames retain their light weapon slot. Thus the choice becomes you can either sacrifice your shotgun to get wallhacks and a cloak, or you can have your speedy shotgunner with less wallhacks and no cloak bonus, meaning you gimp your fit if you wish to fit it that way.
Shoot Scout with yes.
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4134
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem is the pass/fail nature of passive scans. Either they always see you, or they never do. There's no dynamic, and it makes balance near impossible. If we ever get a client side update, I'd advise a revamp of the system into something dynamic, like people becoming harder to detect the farther away they are. This issue was much more engaging however pre 1.8 where I could decide with my logi or assault suit whether to damp enough to neutralize all but the 5 second active scanner...and completely nullify all passive scans with 3 damps. The monopoly on the wallhack by scouts is a large part of the imbalance. It was engaging for the 1% of players who knew about it and actively sought to counter it. For everyone else it was like ratamaq said, "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED" burned into your screen. Ambush was literally blob warfare back then...
This involves a larger issue that I think should be obvious but somehow a lot of eve players have disagreed with me...
It comes down to how esoteric dust can be...instead of simplifying it so you can see exactly what your profile and precision would be in the game as you make your fitting...which is what a soccer dad wants to ******* do when he's logging on for 30 min on a weekend...instead you need ******* player made google docs of dampening or trial and error...I wish CCP just released their own doc detailing e-war each time they changed it showing on each suit what it would look like...and double check the math is all correct and nothing is acting irregularly.
A console FPS need to be accessible. I get eve was built with these nerds hunched over their spreadsheets and I get that and respect it.
But a console FPS gamer doesn't want to spend his time having to leave the game to do this ****. Why do I want to go research the stacking penalties of modules and **** when all I want to do if log in for 45 min and play a few ambush matches?
It's the hardcore that will sit around and exhibit the patience to trololol and figure out what's effective..and the 5% or w/e will find the most broken thing (currently ADS/shotgun scouts/and burst heavies for anyone wondering) and then **** on people all day enjoying the carnage.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4134
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:
To be honest, that is a scout's job. He should be able to see a lot of what's going on around him, that's what scouting is. The issue is how easily it is for them to act on their own with their knowledge as opposed to wait for backup and let the actual slayer suits do their work.
I suggested awhile back that scouts should only be allowed to equip sidearms, thus eliminating a large portion of this problem. As shotgun scouts are a beloved part of the game by the scout community, I would have basic light frames retain their light weapon slot. Thus the choice becomes you can either sacrifice your shotgun to get wallhacks and a cloak, or you can have your speedy shotgunner with less wallhacks and no cloak bonus, meaning you gimp your fit if you wish to fit it that way.
The issue with this is that passive scans are squad shared. This suggestion (if you could get support for it) would create a dichotomy but instead of fixing e-war head on it's a bandaid that doesn't recognize the easiness or having an amarr scout run rail rifle from some far up catwalk, and then the other shotty scouts need only stay close to the 40 meter range of their buddy and shotgun whoever with impunity regardless of their own scans.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Funkmaster Whale
Fatal Absolution
2422
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:This involves a larger issue that I think should be obvious but somehow a lot of eve players have disagreed with me...
It comes down to how esoteric dust can be...instead of simplifying it so you can see exactly what your profile and precision would be in the game as you make your fitting...which is what a soccer dad wants to ******* do when he's logging on for 30 min on a weekend...instead you need ******* player made google docs of dampening or trial and error...I wish CCP just released their own doc detailing e-war each time they changed it showing on each suit what it would look like...and double check the math is all correct and nothing is acting irregularly.
A console FPS need to be accessible. I get eve was built with these nerds hunched over their spreadsheets and I get that and respect it.
But a console FPS gamer doesn't want to spend his time having to leave the game to do this ****. Why do I want to go research the stacking penalties of modules and **** when all I want to do if log in for 45 min and play a few ambush matches?
It's the hardcore that will sit around and exhibit the patience to trololol and figure out what's effective..and the 5% or w/e will find the most broken thing (currently ADS/shotgun scouts/and burst heavies for anyone wondering) and then **** on people all day enjoying the carnage.
Hey man...
Some of those nerds hunched over their spreadsheets are also trying to help Mr. Soccer Dad enjoy the game too.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1122
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:33:00 -
[48] - Quote
How is it different than sneaking up on ppl's backs while cloaked as a scout? Does this not position you to unload a clip into an unsuspecting opponent even more than seeing them approach around a wall?
Also - everyone knows not to turn corners by themselves unless at their own risk.
I don't see a problem with seeing through a wall - really does not much alter mechanics of a game where players can be cloaked.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
|
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1122
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:38:00 -
[49] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem is the pass/fail nature of passive scans. Either they always see you, or they never do. There's no dynamic, and it makes balance near impossible. If we ever get a client side update, I'd advise a revamp of the system into something dynamic, like people becoming harder to detect the farther away they are. This issue was much more engaging however pre 1.8 where I could decide with my logi or assault suit whether to damp enough to neutralize all but the 5 second active scanner...and completely nullify all passive scans with 3 damps. The monopoly on the wallhack by scouts is a large part of the imbalance. To be honest, that is a scout's job. He should be able to see a lot of what's going on around him, that's what scouting is. The issue is how easily it is for them to act on their own with their knowledge as opposed to wait for backup and let the actual slayer suits do their work. I suggested awhile back that scouts should only be allowed to equip sidearms, thus eliminating a large portion of this problem. As shotgun scouts are a beloved part of the game by the scout community, I would have basic light frames retain their light weapon slot. Thus the choice becomes you can either sacrifice your shotgun to get wallhacks and a cloak, or you can have your speedy shotgunner with less wallhacks and no cloak bonus, meaning you gimp your fit if you wish to fit it that way.
It's a great idea. Seriously. ScR scouts are just BS - clearly too powerful.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1122
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:40:00 -
[50] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem is the pass/fail nature of passive scans. Either they always see you, or they never do. There's no dynamic, and it makes balance near impossible. If we ever get a client side update, I'd advise a revamp of the system into something dynamic, like people becoming harder to detect the farther away they are.
Min scouts who use knives are gonna love your idea - why, back to 1.4 or w/e when everyone can see you all the time - challenge FTW.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Funkmaster Whale
Fatal Absolution
2422
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:40:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:How is it different than sneaking up on ppl's backs while cloaked as a scout? Does this not position you to unload a clip into an unsuspecting opponent even more than seeing them approach around a wall?
Also - everyone knows not to turn corners by themselves unless at their own risk.
I don't see a problem with seeing through a wall - really does not much alter mechanics of a game where players can be cloaked.
It really does because it makes the role of slayer Scouts way too easy, which is why there's so many of them now.
By not having red dots appear through walls Scouts would have to rely on their radar combined with actually having to search for an enemy. You wouldn't instantly know where someone is only that there's definitely someone in your vicinity.
It would actually make Scouts have to focus on looking at the game instead of playing whack-a-mole with the red dots that pop up on their screen.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1122
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 08:04:00 -
[52] - Quote
I think EWar is only OP when you see proto dicks in pubs - but all proto dicks have been consistently OP in pubs regardless of specialty suits used or any given game build. There is a group of ppl who will always try to stack OP things and beat up the smaller kids.
It's funny how ppl refer to wall hacks as exploits but have no problem running a squad of suits that each has 2x more HP than ppl on the opposing team. And how about using a KBM combo against the general controller crowd?
The complaints about wall hack are laughable because they fade in comparison to all these other mechanics that are in the game on purpose.
E War actually brings a bit more balance to what otherwise would have been a god mode steamroll - ppl who have been playing the game to remember Imperfects know exactly what true exploits in this game are. If you are not sure about what I am talking about, join a game again Niyan San solo.
Now regarding balance - Min scout is a perfect example of a balanced EWar suit. Sure 1 v 1 you can kill anyone but you are never 1 v 1. There is always compromise:
See a lot or be invisible
Be invisible or have more than 200 ehp
Increase your passive range or be invisible
For each surprise wall hack knife kill I get on basic Min Scout I die twice to random things like anyone blindly spraying Assault rifle half way across the map.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1122
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 08:07:00 -
[53] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:How is it different than sneaking up on ppl's backs while cloaked as a scout? Does this not position you to unload a clip into an unsuspecting opponent even more than seeing them approach around a wall?
Also - everyone knows not to turn corners by themselves unless at their own risk.
I don't see a problem with seeing through a wall - really does not much alter mechanics of a game where players can be cloaked. It really does because it makes the role of slayer Scouts way too easy, which is why there's so many of them now. By not having red dots appear through walls Scouts would have to rely on their radar combined with actually having to search for an enemy. You wouldn't instantly know where someone is only that there's definitely someone in your vicinity. It would actually make Scouts have to focus on looking at the game instead of playing whack-a-mole with the red dots that pop up on their screen.
I don't understand what you mean by "relying on the radar while not knowing where a red dot is" - seems contradictory.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
919
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 08:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:
To be honest, that is a scout's job. He should be able to see a lot of what's going on around him, that's what scouting is. The issue is how easily it is for them to act on their own with their knowledge as opposed to wait for backup and let the actual slayer suits do their work.
I suggested awhile back that scouts should only be allowed to equip sidearms, thus eliminating a large portion of this problem. As shotgun scouts are a beloved part of the game by the scout community, I would have basic light frames retain their light weapon slot. Thus the choice becomes you can either sacrifice your shotgun to get wallhacks and a cloak, or you can have your speedy shotgunner with less wallhacks and no cloak bonus, meaning you gimp your fit if you wish to fit it that way.
The issue with this is that passive scans are squad shared. This suggestion (if you could get support for it) would create a dichotomy but instead of fixing e-war head on it's a bandaid that doesn't recognize the easiness or having an amarr scout run rail rifle from some far up catwalk, and then the other shotty scouts need only stay close to the 40 meter range of their buddy and shotgun whoever with impunity regardless of their own scans.
How about this CPM Zatara. The key stone for the scout rebalance was the GalLogi with the focused scanner "a scanned scout is a dead scout" Anyone with half a brain knows that that argument is BS because a 8 second scanner with a 40 second cool down with a 60-¦ scan angle that cost 30k is not and has never been a common battle field item.
Lets discuss the following:
Remove the Focused from the game.
Change the Base light frame stats to 40 db profile and 45 db precision. With this they are now balanced to each other no different than they were, they are balanced to the now most powerful 20db Gal Logi scanner, and they actually have to work to get below the 28db scanners (1 complex damp with full skills). The real ones will remain viable, but the posers will be lit up.
Along with this we should also give up the Quantom scanner (the 20 second one) but the gal with a proximity (20db 15 seconds) can now keep scouts at bay with-in 60m.
This now lets med frames bleed over into the passive scanning and dampening world also. Able to get below a full skilled, but un modded scout if they have full skills and profile dampeners. It also lets them passively scan full skilled un dampened scouts with 2 complex precision enhancers.
YouTube
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
1702
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 08:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:
To be honest, that is a scout's job. He should be able to see a lot of what's going on around him, that's what scouting is. The issue is how easily it is for them to act on their own with their knowledge as opposed to wait for backup and let the actual slayer suits do their work.
I suggested awhile back that scouts should only be allowed to equip sidearms, thus eliminating a large portion of this problem. As shotgun scouts are a beloved part of the game by the scout community, I would have basic light frames retain their light weapon slot. Thus the choice becomes you can either sacrifice your shotgun to get wallhacks and a cloak, or you can have your speedy shotgunner with less wallhacks and no cloak bonus, meaning you gimp your fit if you wish to fit it that way.
The issue with this is that passive scans are squad shared. This suggestion (if you could get support for it) would create a dichotomy but instead of fixing e-war head on it's a bandaid that doesn't recognize the easiness or having an amarr scout run rail rifle from some far up catwalk, and then the other shotty scouts need only stay close to the 40 meter range of their buddy and shotgun whoever with impunity regardless of their own scans.
But this requires teamwork. This isn't a lone scout going nuts by himself, it is a coordinated team effort. In addition, the amarr scout wouldn't be able to fit a rail rifle, as scouts would have only sidearms.
Shoot Scout with yes.
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Haerr
Legio DXIV
1337
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 10:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The ability to see exactly where people are and the direction they are facing in potentially at all times in a large area is ridiculously broken.
I'm sure some, particularly scouts, will defend the concept, but it is broken.
Unfortunately, I can't see it going anywhere.
Rattati has mentioned that he would like to have a chance to take the time to properly look at the scanning system, sadly no matter how many ideas we come up with (precision falloff, more states etc.) there is apparently a very limiting time constraint in which any effort must fit.
After it became clear that any change to the scanning system would be limited to number tweaks there were many suggestions on how to best balance the current system so that it wouldn't completely deter the use of some suits.
CCP went with what we have now; scouts having relatively similar, at least compared to before, scanning and dampening capabilities. While details can always be tweaked I think that the overall goal of allowing the different scouts to be able to be do a "scout" role is a good one.
Only having scanned or not-scanned as the only states and no precision falloff was a poor design choice. I really do hope that a, much, improved scanning system is a requirement in order for Legion to be greenlit and that they will be able to backport it to Dust.
But who knows maybe it will be christmas yet... (Still <3 you long time Rattati!  )
Super Cow Powers.
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Haerr
Legio DXIV
1337
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 10:58:00 -
[57] - Quote
What would fit in the current system is moving the scouts closer to the mediums, not necessarily as close as they were before cloaks were introduced but enough to make dampening, precision and range modules an actual useful option to fit on medium suits.
Super Cow Powers.
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
3981
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 11:15:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:How is it different than sneaking up on ppl's backs while cloaked as a scout? Does this not position you to unload a clip into an unsuspecting opponent even more than seeing them approach around a wall?
Also - everyone knows not to turn corners by themselves unless at their own risk.
I don't see a problem with seeing through a wall - really does not much alter mechanics of a game where players can be cloaked. It really does because it makes the role of slayer Scouts way too easy, which is why there's so many of them now. By not having red dots appear through walls Scouts would have to rely on their radar combined with actually having to search for an enemy. You wouldn't instantly know where someone is only that there's definitely someone in your vicinity. It would actually make Scouts have to focus on looking at the game instead of playing whack-a-mole with the red dots that pop up on their screen. I don't understand what you mean by "relying on the radar while not knowing where a red dot is" - seems contradictory.
I believe what he is saying is that the red dots should show up only on the radar with passive scans, not light up in your normal field of vision. That's the difference between "ewar" and "lolwallhax". You shouldn't be able to see the other player right in front of you without even so much as having to look up at the HUD.
Think of it as pinging them as opposed to using X-ray vision.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
|
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1107
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 11:38:00 -
[59] - Quote
Cloaks and the emphasis on E-war are obviously the game changers here. The intel of passive scanning, and avoiding it, it extremely powerful and the problem is that it is limited to only one class, scouts. My original suggestion to fix this still seems like a good idea to me, cloaks have a dampening penalty, not a dampening bonus or even neutrality. Dampening should remain the province of the scout but all other classes should have some chance of scanning on equal terms. Scouts could still be sneaky, but they have to actually be sneaky, not just rely on a cloak.
The problem of scouts has to be considered with the problem of the heavy/hmg, as they are the only real counter in many situations. This combo too needs some nerfing.
I don't know if players use these OP fits to demonstrate how they hurt the game or because they like to win, it doesn't matter, what matters is the prevalence of certain fits clearly shows the effectiveness of a fit, and the game breaking efficacy of some fits.
Because, that's why.
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Haerr
Legio DXIV
1337
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 11:40:00 -
[60] - Quote
Bandaid fix?
* Precision Falloff of course.
* If possible more states of being scanned down could be added.
MiniMap:
Hidden ...............
Personal ............ Directional Sector
Shared - Squad . Directional Sector
Shared - Team ... Directional Sector
Personal ............ Blip
Shared - Squad . Blip
Shared - Team ... Blip
Personal ............ Direction Arrow
Shared - Squad . Direction Arrow
Shared - Team ... Direction Arrow
HUD: (Chevrons)
Hidden ...............
Personal ............ Chevron in line of sight
Shared - Squad . Chevron in line of sight
Shared - Team ... Chevron in line of sight
Personal ............ Chevron out of line of sight
Shared - Squad .. Chevron out of line of sight
Shared - Team ... Chevron out of line of sight
Personally I would NOT like to see team shared anything but I'll include it because I suspect one or two people will want to say something about Map/Directional Sector. (I am certain many will want to remove shared chevrons.)
If a bandaid fix is in the making for precision falloff maybe adding more states is a possibility as well.
Super Cow Powers.
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Ryme Intrinseca
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1741
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 11:41:00 -
[61] - Quote
Without ewar scouts would just be slightly faster assaults with half the HP, i.e. totally useless. |
Izlare Lenix
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
928
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 12:07:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Without ewar scouts would just be slightly faster assaults with half the HP, i.e. totally useless.
Also, without ewar EVERYONE would be burst/hmg sentinels. There would be no reason to use anything else as scouts would have less hp and no ewar advantage and medium frames are instamelted by hmgs. So the game would be mostly hmg heavies with a few logis and commandos thrown in the mix.
Hell in PC it is almost this way anyways since the six kin burst is fuking god mode right now.
Gun control is not about guns...it's about control.
The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
3981
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 12:51:00 -
[63] - Quote
Izlare Lenix wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Without ewar scouts would just be slightly faster assaults with half the HP, i.e. totally useless. Also, without ewar EVERYONE would be burst/hmg sentinels. There would be no reason to use anything else as scouts would have less hp and no ewar advantage and medium frames are instamelted by hmgs. So the game would be mostly hmg heavies with a few logis and commandos thrown in the mix. Hell in PC it is almost this way anyways since the six kin burst is fuking god mode right now.
I doubt that. For one, sentinels still wouldn't/shouldn't be able to see scouts, so they will still be a good counter to them. But they will no longer be a counter to everyone else, too. The reason there are so many scouts now is not because they are the counter to all the sentinels.
The opposite is more true, really. Why would you run an assault frame right now? (other than Amarr, maybe). There's no real benefit for the most part... you still can't see the scouts, so why not take the massive boost in eHP? Just think of it as simply brick tanking the assault to the 10th power.
But, if you eliminate the essentially unsurmountable ewar advantage scouts currently have over the medium frames, you have an actual viable alternative: max tank as a sentinel but still be blind, or sacrifice that to fit a medium for ewar and get some extra mobility along with it.
(Six kin also getting nerfed in delta afaik)
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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CommanderBolt
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
1478
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 13:04:00 -
[64] - Quote
And I will say it yet again - Chromosome was better......
Just imagine how good the chromosome build could be by now if it had have been worked on instead of being changed up for the Uprising build.....
-=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=-
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
"I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
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bogeyman m
Minmatar Republic
395
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 15:57:00 -
[65] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:I posted this in Feedback but it seems like more people pay attention to GD.
I won't go into a long tirade as to why red dots appearing through walls is a stupid idea. It should speak for itself. The simple fact of knowing someone's position through a wall gives such a massive advantage that in almost any other FPS game it would be considered a wallhack and thus a banable offense.
I play Scout (since 1.8 of course) and have been making use of this nonsense since before Active Scans were nerfed, and the simple fact is it's unfair. It's unfair that I can be ready to unload my clip in someone's face the milisecond they turn the corner while they have absolutely no idea I'm there because I'm a damped scout. EWar is a good premise with really shoddy execution. I can understand CCP wants Scouts to be "intel providers" or whatever, but what they've done has inadvertently pushed all slayers like myself towards Scouts because it's become a game of wallhack or be wallhacked.
My suggestion may not be easy to execute because it's probably not just changing some variable, but I really think we need to get rid of red dots appearing through walls via passive scans. Red dots should appear after you've "spotted" someone a la targeted them with your weapon and should remain visible for a few seconds thereafter, but the simple "wallhack radius of death" shouldn't exist in any FPS game. The red dots should appear only on your radar such that you can look at it occasionally, see some red dots in your radius and be advised "Ok, I know there's enemies around me but I don't know if they're above me, below me, around the corner, etc". With how it works now, I see a red dot through the wall and if he doesn't know I'm there it's 99% likely I'll kill him before he can even respond.
It's silly to have a constant free flow of information regarding enemy positions with absolutely no drawback. Get rid of the wallhacks.
Passive = sonar
Actives = radar
Fixed.
Also, big that 3rd person tank view. Similar issues to OP.
Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
3338
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 16:24:00 -
[66] - Quote
I honestly don't understand the big problem here. Constant passive scanning has always existed in this game, and I've never had any big issues dealing with it.
Is it bullshit that passive scans are shared? Yes, I would agree with that.
Is it bullshit that passive scans show direction? Yes, enemies should just show as circular dots.
Is it bullshit that passive scans are constant and scan through walls? No, because that is their purpose. Why waste precious module slots on a scanning system that only shows your enemies some of the time, and not even the ones behind walls? You would just encourage more brick tanked scouts if their scans were gimped.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4815
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 17:54:00 -
[67] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem is the pass/fail nature of passive scans. Either they always see you, or they never do. There's no dynamic, and it makes balance near impossible. If we ever get a client side update, I'd advise a revamp of the system into something dynamic, like people becoming harder to detect the farther away they are. This issue was much more engaging however pre 1.8 where I could decide with my logi or assault suit whether to damp enough to neutralize all but the 5 second active scanner...and completely nullify all passive scans with 3 damps. The monopoly on the wallhack by scouts is a large part of the imbalance. To be honest, that is a scout's job. He should be able to see a lot of what's going on around him, that's what scouting is. The issue is how easily it is for them to act on their own with their knowledge as opposed to wait for backup and let the actual slayer suits do their work.
As long as the scout suit has 1 HP and a sidearm, he will be able to kill any suit in the game. That is the power of passive scan intel. |
dzizur
6 dayz
91
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 17:55:00 -
[68] - Quote
ratamaq doc wrote:
This now lets med frames bleed over into the passive scanning and dampening world also. Able to get below a full skilled, but un modded scout if they have full skills and profile dampeners. It also lets them passively scan full skilled un dampened scouts with 2 complex precision enhancers.
don't know about the second part but I think the first (getting below unmodded scout with fully damped assault) is possible right now |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1123
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 17:56:00 -
[69] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:How is it different than sneaking up on ppl's backs while cloaked as a scout? Does this not position you to unload a clip into an unsuspecting opponent even more than seeing them approach around a wall?
Also - everyone knows not to turn corners by themselves unless at their own risk.
I don't see a problem with seeing through a wall - really does not much alter mechanics of a game where players can be cloaked. It really does because it makes the role of slayer Scouts way too easy, which is why there's so many of them now. By not having red dots appear through walls Scouts would have to rely on their radar combined with actually having to search for an enemy. You wouldn't instantly know where someone is only that there's definitely someone in your vicinity. It would actually make Scouts have to focus on looking at the game instead of playing whack-a-mole with the red dots that pop up on their screen. I don't understand what you mean by "relying on the radar while not knowing where a red dot is" - seems contradictory. I believe what he is saying is that the red dots should show up only on the radar with passive scans, not light up in your normal field of vision. That's the difference between "ewar" and "lolwallhax". You shouldn't be able to see the other player right in front of you without even so much as having to look up at the HUD. Think of it as pinging them as opposed to using X-ray vision.
Ah, yeah I see - I would have no problem with this at all - makes good sense. I did not realize even that this was the core of the discussion. Makes sense to me - not a bad idea at all.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9252
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 18:15:00 -
[70] - Quote
It is not a wallhack since CCP implemented it on purpose. Get over it.
PS: The Halo series by Bungie and 343 Industries has radar that allows you to see EVERYONE that's moving and yet that never ruined the gameplay experience.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Funkmaster Whale
Fatal Absolution
2435
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 18:18:00 -
[71] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:Ah, yeah I see - I would have no problem with this at all - makes good sense. I did not realize even that this was the core of the discussion. Makes sense to me - not a bad idea at all.
I probably could clarify better but yes, this is the intent.
As a Scout, I still end up looking at my radar about every 3 or 4 seconds to check my surroundings, but this practice is null in most cases because the red dots are already visible all around me on the screen.
The radar is an important tool that Scouts should have to rely more on for survival. It's too easy to go Slayer Scout with the current implementation because seeing red dots through walls is just too damn good.
I'd just like to note that I make use of DUST wallhacks all the time and it's partly the reason I can get 30+ killstreaks without dying. Many others with similar skill levels do the same, and I'm fairly positive the ones who are adamantly against removing red dots through walls probably abuse it just as much and simply don't want to see their favorite crutch gone.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9252
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 18:20:00 -
[72] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Ah, yeah I see - I would have no problem with this at all - makes good sense. I did not realize even that this was the core of the discussion. Makes sense to me - not a bad idea at all. I probably could clarify better but yes, this is the intent. As a Scout, I still end up looking at my radar about every 3 or 4 seconds to check my surroundings, but this practice is null in most cases because the red dots are already visible all around me on the screen. The radar is an important tool that Scouts should have to rely more on for survival. It's too easy to go Slayer Scout with the current implementation because seeing red dots through walls is just too damn good. I'd just like to note that I make use of DUST wallhacks all the time and it's partly the reason I can get 30+ killstreaks without dying. Many others with similar skill levels do the same, and I'm fairly positive the ones who are adamantly against removing red dots through walls probably abuse it just as much and simply don't want to see their favorite crutch gone.
Ok, perhaps maybe I can agree with this. Allow the scouts to see redberries through the walls but limit the information to the minimap and not the field of vision.
PS: I run primarily Minmatar scout so I don't take advantage of the EWAR because it has none.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Funkmaster Whale
Fatal Absolution
2435
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 18:27:00 -
[73] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Ok, perhaps maybe I can agree with this. Allow the scouts to see redberries through the walls but limit the information to the minimap and not the field of vision.
PS: I run primarily Minmatar scout so I don't take advantage of the EWAR because it has none.
Wait wait wait... did you just say EWAR has no advantage? Being constantly fed enemy positions around you provides absolutely NO advantage to you?
I'm just gonna shake my head and walk away from this one...
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9252
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 18:29:00 -
[74] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Ok, perhaps maybe I can agree with this. Allow the scouts to see redberries through the walls but limit the information to the minimap and not the field of vision.
PS: I run primarily Minmatar scout so I don't take advantage of the EWAR because it has none. Wait wait wait... did you just say EWAR has no advantage? Being constantly fed enemy positions around you provides absolutely NO advantage to you? I'm just gonna shake my head and walk away from this one...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I'm talking about the Minmatar Scout having no EWAR advantage! Perhaps I should've worded it better. I'm tired today.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Funkmaster Whale
Fatal Absolution
2435
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 18:42:00 -
[75] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Ok, perhaps maybe I can agree with this. Allow the scouts to see redberries through the walls but limit the information to the minimap and not the field of vision.
PS: I run primarily Minmatar scout so I don't take advantage of the EWAR because it has none. Wait wait wait... did you just say EWAR has no advantage? Being constantly fed enemy positions around you provides absolutely NO advantage to you? I'm just gonna shake my head and walk away from this one... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I'm talking about the Minmatar Scout having no EWAR advantage! Perhaps I should've worded it better. I'm tired today.
Oh, well yeah that's true...
But think about it this way, if red dots through walls were removed then every Scout would be a lot more balanced vs each other as well as vs the other suits. Scouts would still be able to tell people are around them via looking at their radar and seeing the chevrons in their radius.
Here's an image for clarification
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9252
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 18:47:00 -
[76] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Ok, perhaps maybe I can agree with this. Allow the scouts to see redberries through the walls but limit the information to the minimap and not the field of vision.
PS: I run primarily Minmatar scout so I don't take advantage of the EWAR because it has none. Wait wait wait... did you just say EWAR has no advantage? Being constantly fed enemy positions around you provides absolutely NO advantage to you? I'm just gonna shake my head and walk away from this one... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I'm talking about the Minmatar Scout having no EWAR advantage! Perhaps I should've worded it better. I'm tired today. Oh, well yeah that's true... But think about it this way, if red dots through walls were removed then every Scout would be a lot more balanced vs each other as well as vs the other suits. Scouts would still be able to tell people are around them via looking at their radar and seeing the chevrons in their radius. Here's an image for clarification
I get what you mean already as I have played Halo from Combat Evolved to the fourth iteration. The minimap allows players to see which direction is enemy is at but still have to use a little bit of guess work as to whether the target is above, below, or on the same floor as they are. Of course, the downside with this is that the minimap becomes absolutely useless in a maps with multiple levels like Construct in Halo or the Orbital map.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Private Part's
sticky green's
10
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 19:24:00 -
[77] - Quote
I don't have a problem with how tacnet works took a bit getting use to but I'm fine with it. What I'd like to see is another counter to it maybe a radar jammer that you could put in your equipment slot. It could work just like a scanner but instead of seeing all the red dots anyone with a certain passive scan db would get there tacnet filled with static. |
ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
939
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 20:34:00 -
[78] - Quote
dzizur wrote:ratamaq doc wrote:
This now lets med frames bleed over into the passive scanning and dampening world also. Able to get below a full skilled, but un modded scout if they have full skills and profile dampeners. It also lets them passively scan full skilled un dampened scouts with 2 complex precision enhancers.
don't know about the second part but I think the first (getting below unmodded scout with fully damped assault) is possible right now
Ok this is half true, and I should've said dampener ( singular not plural) currently med frames can get below two of the 4 scouts with full skills and 1 complex dampener. They need two dampeners to get under the Amarr and Gal with no precision mods. This would be fine if it was Amarr only (since that it his primary suit bonus) but Gal also is a little two far. If you increased the base profile and precision by 5 the Amarr would still see a complex dampener to avoid.
I really think all of the precision up and down the chain should be reversed. Heavier the suit, better the base precision. They are the point defence, the ones that the scouts should have to beat to infiltrate. Let the scouts eat their own "eyes are OP, used them" dog food.
YouTube
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4816
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 21:24:00 -
[79] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:It is not a wallhack since CCP implemented it on purpose. Get over it.
PS: The Halo series by Bungie and 343 Industries has radar that allows you to see EVERYONE that's moving and yet that never ruined the gameplay experience.
Bullshit and completely misleading. Radar is disabled during competitive play events, for one thing, and even during casual multiplayer it has built-in balance mechanics that Dust lacks.
A person cloaking for example creates tons of ghost static all over the enemies radar when he is in close proximity so the enemy is put on alert when someone is sneaking around. This makes cloaking useful at a distance, but not up close.
Furthermore, anyone can go under the radar by simply crouching. This allows a person to drop off the radar entirely, even after being spotted. It is a big part of ambushing people who rely heavily on radar. |
Knight Soiaire
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
5793
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 21:29:00 -
[80] - Quote
But, how will I win? |
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4816
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 21:32:00 -
[81] - Quote
There is this crazy idea out there that maybe you shouldn't.
Scouts should be setting traps, fast hacking points, harassing from a distance with sniper rifles, and assassinating soft targets like logis. Basically, causing mischief and chaos. Making things not go according to the enemies plan.
At no point do I believe a scout should just be able to run into a 1v1 and fight evenly with an assault or a heavy. No. Never. That's stupid.
If they want to release a combat light frame with super high movement that sacrifices its ability to wallhack and cloak, that's different. Hell they can even give it parkour and other cool ****. But the current scout has no business being in combat at all. |
Knight Soiaire
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
5793
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 21:34:00 -
[82] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:There is this crazy idea out there that maybe you shouldn't.
You're right, that's crazy. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
4605
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 21:47:00 -
[83] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote:I see a lot of big corps in here... I also see you run scouts in squads with heavy/assault/commando backup in pubs, Factional and especially in PC ( it's necessary? ).
A lot of hate from people that I've seen use ( and admit using ) TAR, scanerina, gal cloak shotgun, condemning what they have done. Now your complaining about something you nullify with shared squad vision while you q-sync and pub stomp. ( daily I see your corps doin it ).
You all have years of sp above newbs but still q-sync in pubs and use all the stuff you complain about so in the meantime I'll go watch some black guys call each other *****... It makes more sense. ( btw no racism intended just a metaphor )
That's a very shallow interpretation of what's going on here. You seem to have this preconception that just because we've been around longer that we want to do everything in our power to sabotage the playerbase. You completely misconstrue the point here. OF COURSE we would use these things. How else do you compete with other players who abuse broken mechanics? Is there some sort of moral code we have to abide where we all agree not to use them? The fact that so many top tier players use these things is because they're clearly broken, and in such a scenario the only way to stay competitive is to fight fire with fire. Every single broken FotM piece of crap has been called out by vet players because it ruins gameplay when a certain mechanic becomes so saturated that you have to resort to a "if you can't beat em, join em" mentality. I'm talking about Duvolle TAC, Cal Logi, Fused Locus Grenades, Flaylocks, Mass Drivers, Active Scanners, Forge Guns, Tanks, Cloaks, Scouts, Rail + Combat Rifles, and I'm sure a few others. All of these have at some point been OP and called out by players like us who abused the hell out of them to make it apparent just how stupid they were. For example, my Forge thread from forever ago where I demonstrated me going 60-0 two games in a row with an Assault Forge Gun by just sitting on top of a tower and blapping people. I asked them to nerf the splash on it because of how easy it was to two-shot people with just splash damage. It ended up being like 15+ pages and was subsequently nerfed in the next patch. A lot of players were saying I was an extreme case and that I cheated or abused the weapon and that it shouldn't be nerfed and blah blah, but there were plenty others like me who were abusing the exact same thing but just not wanting to be open about it. Point is you gotta show the ridiculousness of certain mechanics if you want them to get fixed. It makes everyone better players and for a better game by not having very apparent crutches readily available in the game.
One of the rare times I wish I could like a post 1000x.
Of course people are going to take advantage of things presented to them. Also where are the corps in PC that only use one faction's gear or won't use XA or XB as a suit/strategy? I'm not sure I see the harm in min/maxing, especially when things are getting tweeted in record time.
Thankfully we have a fairly large selection of knowledgable players and a receptive CCP in terms of balance.
Scans are going to be a tough thing to get right. In pubs I think it'll be a balance fight similar to AV vs Vehicles
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
Interregnum.
363
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 21:53:00 -
[84] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:CLARIFICATION ABOUT MY SUGGESTION: Red dots would still appear on your RADAR, as in that thing on the top left of your screen that you may or may not have known exists. Red dots will cease to appear on your SCREEN as to prevent you knowing exactly where enemies are around you at all times. EWAR would still exist, only in a more limited fashion since it's clearly broken in its current implementation. The idea would make it a lot harder for Scouts to play whack-a-mole with the red dots that pop up all around them. IMAGE FOR CLARIFICATION RADAR is not perfect - does not show the height of target(redberry on radar), so chevrons on your screen are necessary.
Gallente Speed Scout.
EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
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Kin Cat
Another Clone in the Wall
47
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 22:12:00 -
[85] - Quote
active scanner should do this. EWAR should not |
ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
939
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 22:19:00 -
[86] - Quote
Agreed. As long as we don't go back to 360 perma scans
YouTube
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Kin Cat
Another Clone in the Wall
47
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 22:23:00 -
[87] - Quote
then again i dont know. you'd think in a futuristic society they'd have better scanning technology than we do.
and we can already scan through walls with X-rays. i don't know if we can apply it to a battle situation but im sure new eden could
i agree that there should be some sort of "commando" light frame that sacrifices EWAR for slaying ability
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Funkmaster Whale
Fatal Absolution
2441
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 23:33:00 -
[88] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:CLARIFICATION ABOUT MY SUGGESTION: Red dots would still appear on your RADAR, as in that thing on the top left of your screen that you may or may not have known exists. Red dots will cease to appear on your SCREEN as to prevent you knowing exactly where enemies are around you at all times. EWAR would still exist, only in a more limited fashion since it's clearly broken in its current implementation. The idea would make it a lot harder for Scouts to play whack-a-mole with the red dots that pop up all around them. IMAGE FOR CLARIFICATION RADAR is not perfect - does not show the height of target(redberry on radar), so chevrons on your screen are necessary.
Are you serious? That's my entire point! The radar and scanning shouldn't be perfect. It's "perfect" the way it is now because I have a 360 degree aura of exact enemy positions conveniently pasted with red chevrons on my screen.
Passive scans should not be perfect. I can totally agree that the Active Scanner should still provide exact positions because it's got a long list of drawbacks to it (duration, long cooldown, equipment slot, fitting costs, etc.).
What drawbacks do passive scans have, specifically on Scouts? Go on, I'll wait.
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Funkmaster Whale
Fatal Absolution
2441
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 23:35:00 -
[89] - Quote
Kin Cat wrote:then again i dont know. you'd think in a futuristic society they'd have better scanning technology than we do.
and we can already scan through walls with X-rays. i don't know if we can apply it to a battle situation but im sure new eden could
i agree that there should be some sort of "commando" light frame that sacrifices EWAR for slaying ability
You have to understand that balancing around lore is not something you do in an FPS. Yes, I'm sure they could have amazing tactical networks that feed every soldier enemy positions 100% of the time with chips implanted in their brains to make it so they never miss and blah blah blah...
It doesn't matter what shooter it is, you have to balance around gameplay and not "Well in the future they would have...".
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ACT1ON BASTARD
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
118
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 00:45:00 -
[90] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Kin Cat wrote:then again i dont know. you'd think in a futuristic society they'd have better scanning technology than we do.
and we can already scan through walls with X-rays. i don't know if we can apply it to a battle situation but im sure new eden could
i agree that there should be some sort of "commando" light frame that sacrifices EWAR for slaying ability
You have to understand that balancing around lore is not something you do in an FPS. Yes, I'm sure they could have amazing tactical networks that feed every soldier enemy positions 100% of the time with chips implanted in their brains to make it so they never miss and blah blah blah... It doesn't matter what shooter it is, you have to balance around gameplay and not "Well in the future they would have...".
Yes holy crap ive been saying this forever. How can you balance around lore especially when your lores from a spaceship game. |
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2375
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 02:22:00 -
[91] - Quote
Soulja Ghostface wrote:Go play call of duty.
He's probably one of the most Die hard dusters.... Been here playing it competitively since the start.
The scanning things is neat... But the scanning things through walls just isn't...
Pre-fire is 9/10's of the law in Shooters. This is fact and is an absolute when playing them.
being able to see and track targets through walls is and will always be a massive problem in moment to moment gameplay and competitive gameplay in this IP and the future of it.
This will only be made worse in Legion when aiming will actually be a skill and headshots will be something that you can consistently and accurately aim for...
Pre firing ruins everyones game and enjoyment of the game... From the person getting the easy kill and missing out on a meaningful engagement to the person coming around the corner that will be dead or less then half health before they can react.
Showing blips on the radar after a scan is one thing... Making Eye contact with a target and them staying on screen for 15-30 seconds...But showing their entire position without any eye contact and giving you a targeting box without ever seeing them is something that is Ridiculous in every sense for general gameplay.
This is not complicated big picture stuff... It should be everyone with general FPS genre experience shaking their head in agreement |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
3985
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 02:43:00 -
[92] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Kin Cat wrote:then again i dont know. you'd think in a futuristic society they'd have better scanning technology than we do.
and we can already scan through walls with X-rays. i don't know if we can apply it to a battle situation but im sure new eden could
i agree that there should be some sort of "commando" light frame that sacrifices EWAR for slaying ability
You have to understand that balancing around lore is not something you do in an FPS. Yes, I'm sure they could have amazing tactical networks that feed every soldier enemy positions 100% of the time with chips implanted in their brains to make it so they never miss and blah blah blah... It doesn't matter what shooter it is, you have to balance around gameplay and not "Well in the future they would have...".
You can also easily make the counter point that *cue big voice* "in a world... with immortal clone soldiers" they would also be able to create stealth technology that counters the scanning technology.
Think about real-world radar and stealth technology. Radar was amazing for decades, but no longer. The stealth bomber is totally OP right now (have you ever seen one? It's f*cking crazy, they are super quiet too). Eventually that will get "solved" with some kind of narrow band intense scanning radar or the like.
Every real world military technology eventually gets a counter too.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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TechMechMeds
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
5504
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 02:50:00 -
[93] - Quote
If its not been mentioned yet, remove the symbol that shows which way they are facing and replace it with a red dot.
This way, you at least won't know exactly which way they are facing.
My hometown beat Manchester united.
Git gud man utd.
4-0
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1126
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 06:19:00 -
[94] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem is the pass/fail nature of passive scans. Either they always see you, or they never do. There's no dynamic, and it makes balance near impossible. If we ever get a client side update, I'd advise a revamp of the system into something dynamic, like people becoming harder to detect the farther away they are. This issue was much more engaging however pre 1.8 where I could decide with my logi or assault suit whether to damp enough to neutralize all but the 5 second active scanner...and completely nullify all passive scans with 3 damps. The monopoly on the wallhack by scouts is a large part of the imbalance. To be honest, that is a scout's job. He should be able to see a lot of what's going on around him, that's what scouting is. The issue is how easily it is for them to act on their own with their knowledge as opposed to wait for backup and let the actual slayer suits do their work. As long as the scout suit has 1 HP and a sidearm, he will be able to kill any suit in the game. That is the power of passive scan intel combined with virtual invisibility. Scans, or stealth. I don't think a scout should be doing both.
I don't think you play as Min scout much then. It's very rock-paper-scisors-y. Sure you can ambush any suit and OHK them with, for argument's stake, Ishuk NK. But for every kill like that there is gonna be plenty of instances where you get randomly blown up by a single grenade that was not even meant for you, or OHK'd by a sniper who can see you really well even when cloaked.
Dust is definitely not a 1 v 1 game or at least, as most ppl here would probably agree, not supposed to be 1v1. So, eHP is definitely a not nothing.
The problem with scouts is that there are some very OP combo's. Proto Scouts with 500 eHP can insta shoot while not fully decloaked dealing massive damage from a SG that's got 6 shots.
These very unbalanced combo's must be undermined, not all scouts nerfed which would be a mistake. For example, there is no way Min Scout should be nerfed - you never see one of them go a game with a massively bloated KDR despite their E-War and cloaks. Why? Because they have PG and slot layout limitations and their bonuses make good sense (like NK bonus is a great example of not given a massive advantage to a suit while being very useful and attracting a good niche of players).
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1126
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 06:21:00 -
[95] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:If its not been mentioned yet, remove the symbol that shows which way they are facing and replace it with a red dot.
This way, you at least won't know exactly which way they are facing.
Overall, it's a good idea but again I am worried that it would disproportionately hurt min scouts who work in very close quarters and already are struggling compared to other scouts.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4155
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 07:08:00 -
[96] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:CLARIFICATION ABOUT MY SUGGESTION: Red dots would still appear on your RADAR, as in that thing on the top left of your screen that you may or may not have known exists. Red dots will cease to appear on your SCREEN as to prevent you knowing exactly where enemies are around you at all times. EWAR would still exist, only in a more limited fashion since it's clearly broken in its current implementation. The idea would make it a lot harder for Scouts to play whack-a-mole with the red dots that pop up all around them. IMAGE FOR CLARIFICATION RADAR is not perfect - does not show the height of target(redberry on radar), so chevrons on your screen are necessary.
SMH!
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
798
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 09:57:00 -
[97] - Quote
Remove ewar and the scout will be just another flat boring suit.
But yes, remove all active and passive ewar - maybe remove the map as well and squads, and any kind of 'shared vision' |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9257
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 10:06:00 -
[98] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:It is not a wallhack since CCP implemented it on purpose. Get over it.
PS: The Halo series by Bungie and 343 Industries has radar that allows you to see EVERYONE that's moving and yet that never ruined the gameplay experience. Bullshit and completely misleading. Radar is disabled during competitive play events, for one thing, and it clearly DID ruin the experience for anyone who took the game seriously. and even during casual multiplayer it has built-in balance mechanics that Dust lacks. A person cloaking for example creates tons of ghost static all over the enemies radar when he is in close proximity so the enemy is put on alert when someone is sneaking around. This makes cloaking useful at a distance, but not up close. Furthermore, anyone can go under the radar by simply crouching. This allows a person to drop off the radar entirely, even after being spotted. It is a big part of ambushing people who rely heavily on radar. You cripple your movement as a "trade off" for getting the drop on someone. I can understand why that wouldn't be appealing to you though -- Dust Scouts aren't used to the phrase "trade off".
It still doesn't change the fact that it never ruined my experience nor that of my close friends who are equally competitive as I am.
Speaking of which, competitive play events are never uniform in every event. It's usually up to the discretion of the group hosting the event on how the radar is setup. So a Halo Tournament in one place will obviously have a completely different set of rules than that of another unless both locations are managed by the same group. I've been to Halo Tournaments before (up to Halo 3 at least) and I have seen them managed like this.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
798
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 10:06:00 -
[99] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Soulja Ghostface wrote:Go play call of duty. He's probably one of the most Die hard dusters.... Been here playing it competitively since the start. The scanning things is neat... But the scanning things through walls just isn't... Pre-fire is 9/10's of the law in Shooters. This is fact and is an absolute when playing them. being able to see and track targets through walls is and will always be a massive problem in moment to moment gameplay and competitive gameplay in this IP and the future of it. This will only be made worse in Legion when aiming will actually be a skill and headshots will be something that you can consistently and accurately aim for... Pre firing ruins everyones game and enjoyment of the game... From the person getting the easy kill and missing out on a meaningful engagement to the person coming around the corner that will be dead or less then half health before they can react. Showing blips on the radar after a scan is one thing... Making Eye contact with a target and them staying on screen for 15-30 seconds...But showing their entire position without any eye contact and giving you a targeting box without ever seeing them is something that is Ridiculous in every sense for general gameplay. This is not complicated big picture stuff... It should be everyone with general FPS genre experience shaking their head in agreement
I think you have a poor grasp of how 'radar' works - it doesn't require 'eye contact'
Aiming in Legion will be a skill? Really? I'm so skilled I double clicked on internet explorer today |
dzizur
6 dayz
91
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 12:41:00 -
[100] - Quote
Happy Violentime wrote:Aiming in Legion will be a skill? Really? I'm so skilled I double clicked on internet explorer today
well it's being released on PC, mysterious land where you actually don't have an aimbot in every game
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Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
160
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Posted - 2014.09.07 13:00:00 -
[101] - Quote
I run no ewar I have a scout..amar..but I feel adding ewar to my character atm..would be adding fotm..which I do not do..
dust has gotten harder I can only be thankful that while ewar scouts may be broken..Most of them suck at their roles..on the saD occasion I run into a full squad of veteran ewar scouts..i go find another match..because I'm stingy about my iskies. Nowadays I make a point to be around 100m away from the hot spots ..Ide rather deal with snipers than scouts..so if a scout wants to jump me they are gonna have to sprint 50-90 m across open space..The game is still playable for someone like me but it is far from easy and everything as always is circumstantial
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
3987
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 14:09:00 -
[102] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:I run no ewar I have a scout..amar..but I feel adding ewar to my character atm..would be adding fotm..which I do not do..
dust has gotten harder I can only be thankful that while ewar scouts may be broken..Most of them suck at their roles..on the saD occasion I run into a full squad of veteran ewar scouts..i go find another match..because I'm stingy about my iskies. Nowadays I make a point to be around 100m away from the hot spots ..Ide rather deal with snipers than scouts..so if a scout wants to jump me they are gonna have to sprint 50-90 m across open space..The game is still playable for someone like me but it is far from easy and everything as always is circumstantial
Fortunately true. Lots of scrub scouts in pubs, and even in FW, but an organized squad of good scouts is f*cking terrifying.
Couple nights ago I was up against Amaterasu and a few other FA people in FW, turned a corner while flanking with some uplinks in a dragonfly. Saw 4 of them cloak and scatter after taking out a couple blueberries who had made a run for the objective. Pretty much just kissed my ass goodbye and started flinging grenades, was dead even before the second one hit the ground (F*cking dual ishukone assault SMGs... Limiting scouts to sidearms wasn't gonna save me there, lol.)
Totally fine with that, it was a risky move and I knew it. Those 4 would have shredded me anyway, and scout-scout combat is solid. The problem is that I can't use any other suit.
The days of spending even 75% of the match in my logi suit are over. Certainly no point in trying to put damps on it. There's a minimum of one person in every squad who will see me anyway, which means everyone can see me.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
942
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Posted - 2014.09.07 16:30:00 -
[103] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:I run no ewar I have a scout..amar..but I feel adding ewar to my character atm..would be adding fotm..which I do not do..
dust has gotten harder I can only be thankful that while ewar scouts may be broken..Most of them suck at their roles..on the saD occasion I run into a full squad of veteran ewar scouts..i go find another match..because I'm stingy about my iskies. Nowadays I make a point to be around 100m away from the hot spots ..Ide rather deal with snipers than scouts..so if a scout wants to jump me they are gonna have to sprint 50-90 m across open space..The game is still playable for someone like me but it is far from easy and everything as always is circumstantial Fortunately true. Lots of scrub scouts in pubs, and even in FW, but an organized squad of good scouts is f*cking terrifying. If more people used their suits to their real potential the game really would be unplayable for everyone else. Couple nights ago I was up against Amaterasu and a few other FA people in FW, turned a corner while flanking with some uplinks in a dragonfly. Saw 4 of them cloak and scatter after taking out a couple blueberries who had made a run for the objective. Pretty much just kissed my ass goodbye and started flinging grenades, was dead even before the second one hit the ground (F*cking dual ishukone assault SMGs... Limiting scouts to sidearms wasn't gonna save me there, lol.) Totally fine with that, it was a risky move and I knew it. Those 4 would have shredded me anyway, and scout-scout combat is solid. The problem is that I can't use any other suit. The days of spending even 75% of the match in my logi suit are over. Certainly no point in trying to put damps on it. There's a minimum of one person in every squad who will see me anyway, which means everyone can see me.
This is my new progression for city sockets. Start with Dragonfly with 1 complex precision. If I get gaged by a cloak scout I didn't see it's respawn ADV Cal with dual precision, then ADV Gal with Dual, then ADV Amarr with dual. Sometimes I will just straight to Amarr if say it is a proto Gal or Min with a cloak that gaged me. If all of this fails then I come back with a proto Gal with 4 focused scanners, call in an LAV and just circle the city hopping out every 8 seconds to re ping the city. Even if I'm not in a squad :). I'll do this for the rest of the game content that every time one of them sees, "you have been scanned" they poop themselves.
YouTube
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
Interregnum.
365
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Posted - 2014.09.07 17:15:00 -
[104] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:CLARIFICATION ABOUT MY SUGGESTION: Red dots would still appear on your RADAR, as in that thing on the top left of your screen that you may or may not have known exists. Red dots will cease to appear on your SCREEN as to prevent you knowing exactly where enemies are around you at all times. EWAR would still exist, only in a more limited fashion since it's clearly broken in its current implementation. The idea would make it a lot harder for Scouts to play whack-a-mole with the red dots that pop up all around them. IMAGE FOR CLARIFICATION RADAR is not perfect - does not show the height of target(redberry on radar), so chevrons on your screen are necessary. Are you serious? That's my entire point! The radar and scanning shouldn't be perfect. It's "perfect" the way it is now because I have a 360 degree aura of exact enemy positions conveniently pasted with red chevrons on my screen. Passive scans should not be perfect. I can totally agree that the Active Scanner should still provide exact positions because it's got a long list of drawbacks to it (duration, angular distance, cooldown, equipment slot, fitting costs, etc.). What drawbacks do passive scans have[, specifically on Scouts? Go on, I'll wait.
What drawbacks do passive scans have
Passive scans can not penetrate ground level of map.
So if you are on flat ground with one hill, away from any outpost structures, and there is Militia Heavy behind that hill, and you can not see his shape on your screen, you can not see his signature ether even if he is 5 meters from you and have no dampening skills or modules.
Passive scanner mechanic is construct in way that allows you to detect enemy signatures behind solid walls, buildings, and plenty of materials that should interact and disrupt your 'sound detector', as you already know. If you only have range and precision to detect it, you will detect it with one exception - ground level of map - if target is behind it you will not detect his signature no matter how many modules you use or skills you have, ground level is not penetrable 'wall'.
Are you serious? That's my entire point!
It is RADAR of your DROPSUIT so it should work in 3D, it is not RADAR of spaceship that see battleground in 2D.
because I have a 360 degree aura
BS, you have 60 degree scanning range on your Dropsuit, you see redberry on your 'back' because squad-mates see then in they 60 degree angle and squad scans are shared. Stop spreading BS, you knowledge about how passive scan works is basic.
Active Scanner should still provide exact positions
It takes 3kk less SP to skill it on lvl5, so no.. you are wrong, again.
Gallente Speed Scout.
EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
943
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 18:44:00 -
[105] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:CLARIFICATION ABOUT MY SUGGESTION: Red dots would still appear on your RADAR, as in that thing on the top left of your screen that you may or may not have known exists. Red dots will cease to appear on your SCREEN as to prevent you knowing exactly where enemies are around you at all times. EWAR would still exist, only in a more limited fashion since it's clearly broken in its current implementation. The idea would make it a lot harder for Scouts to play whack-a-mole with the red dots that pop up all around them. IMAGE FOR CLARIFICATION RADAR is not perfect - does not show the height of target(redberry on radar), so chevrons on your screen are necessary. Are you serious? That's my entire point! The radar and scanning shouldn't be perfect. It's "perfect" the way it is now because I have a 360 degree aura of exact enemy positions conveniently pasted with red chevrons on my screen. Passive scans should not be perfect. I can totally agree that the Active Scanner should still provide exact positions because it's got a long list of drawbacks to it (duration, angular distance, cooldown, equipment slot, fitting costs, etc.). What drawbacks do passive scans have[, specifically on Scouts? Go on, I'll wait. What drawbacks do passive scans havePassive scans can not penetrate ground level of map. So if you are on flat ground with one hill, away from any outpost structures, and there is Militia Heavy behind that hill, and you can not see his shape on your screen, you can not see his signature ether even if he is 5 meters from you. Passive scanner mechanic is construct in way that allows you to detect enemy signatures behind solid walls, buildings, and plenty of materials that should interact and disrupt your 'sound detector', as you already know. If you only have range and precision to detect it, you will detect it with one exception - ground level of map - if target is behind it you will not detect his signature no matter how many modules you use or skills you have, ground level is not penetrable 'wall'. Are you serious? That's my entire point!It is RADAR of your DROPSUIT so it should work in 3D, it is not RADAR of spaceship that see battleground in 2D. because I have a 360 degree auraBS, you have 60 degree scanning range on your Dropsuit, you see redberry on your 'back' because squad-mates see them in they 60 degree angle and squad scans are shared. Stop spreading BS, you knowledge about how passive scan works is basic. Active Scanner should still provide exact positionsIt takes 3kk less SP to skill it on lvl5, so no.. you are wrong, again.
This post is filled with so much wrong it's not even worth pointing it all out. Instead I'll do the Joe Peci "everything that guy just said was BS... Thank you"
YouTube
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
Interregnum.
365
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Posted - 2014.09.07 19:00:00 -
[106] - Quote
ratamaq doc wrote:
This post is filled with so much wrong it's not even worth pointing it all out. Instead I'll do the Joe Peci "everything that guy just said was BS... Thank you"
Boring.
Gallente Speed Scout.
EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
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Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
799
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Posted - 2014.09.07 19:02:00 -
[107] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:I run no ewar I have a scout..amar..but I feel adding ewar to my character atm..would be adding fotm..which I do not do..
dust has gotten harder I can only be thankful that while ewar scouts may be broken..Most of them suck at their roles..on the saD occasion I run into a full squad of veteran ewar scouts..i go find another match..because I'm stingy about my iskies. Nowadays I make a point to be around 100m away from the hot spots ..Ide rather deal with snipers than scouts..so if a scout wants to jump me they are gonna have to sprint 50-90 m across open space..The game is still playable for someone like me but it is far from easy and everything as always is circumstantial
You run no ewar? Um I'm sure that 25% to scan precision helps you (along with the other 10% if you have your cores up) |
Kin Cat
Another Clone in the Wall
53
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Posted - 2014.09.07 20:03:00 -
[108] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:You can also easily make the counter point that *cue big movie voice* "in a world... with immortal clone soldiers fighting an endless war..." they would also be able to create jamming technology that counters the scanning tech.
Think about real-world radar and stealth technology. Radar was amazing for decades, but no longer. The stealth bomber is totally OP right now (have you ever seen one? It's f*cking crazy, they are super quiet too). Eventually that will get "solved" with some kind of narrow band intense scanning radar or the like.
Every real world military technology eventually gets a counter too.
lol one time someone on squad finder was impersonating Morgan Freeman it was hilarious
he was like "morgan freeman does not have sex. morgan freeman smiles at women and they become pregnant." |
ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
943
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 21:40:00 -
[109] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:
What drawbacks do passive scans have
Passive scans can not penetrate ground level of map.
So if you are on flat ground with one hill, away from any outpost structures, and there is Militia Heavy behind that hill, and you can not see his shape on your screen, you can not see his signature ether even if he is 5 meters from you.
Passive scanner mechanic is construct in way that allows you to detect enemy signatures behind solid walls, buildings, and plenty of materials that should interact and disrupt your 'sound detector', as you already know. If you only have range and precision to detect it, you will detect it with one exception - ground level of map - if target is behind it you will not detect his signature no matter how many modules you use or skills you have, ground level is not penetrable 'wall'.
Both of the following images are from this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqiWBB6gWXw&list=UUBw0rF1WiMtNMkfRZhXxGzw
Passive scanning seeing through terrain.
http://imgur.com/5TWomim
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Are you serious? That's my entire point!
It is RADAR of your DROPSUIT so it should work in 3D, it is not RADAR of spaceship that see battleground in 2D.
because I have a 360 degree aura
BS, you have 60 degree scanning range on your Dropsuit, you see redberry on your 'back' because squad-mates see them in they 60 degree angle and squad scans are shared. Stop spreading BS, you knowledge about how passive scan works is basic.
Active Scanner should still provide exact positions
It takes 3kk less SP to skill it on lvl5, so no.. you are wrong, again.
Passive scanning showing marks more than 60-¦ out of my FOV.
http://imgur.com/YHE3cku
I was not in a squad, (notice the my dot is blue), so I was only getting intel from my passives.
Maybe you are visiting us from 2012? Hey! welcome to 2014. Scanning hasn't worked the way you are describing since uprising 1.4. Do us a favor go back and tell the 2013 Devs that the vehicle changes in 1.7 are moronic, and to make sure they get that decimal right on the militia booster!
YouTube
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Funkmaster Whale
Fatal Absolution
2448
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 21:53:00 -
[110] - Quote
ratamaq doc wrote:Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:
What drawbacks do passive scans have
Passive scans can not penetrate ground level of map.
So if you are on flat ground with one hill, away from any outpost structures, and there is Militia Heavy behind that hill, and you can not see his shape on your screen, you can not see his signature ether even if he is 5 meters from you.
Passive scanner mechanic is construct in way that allows you to detect enemy signatures behind solid walls, buildings, and plenty of materials that should interact and disrupt your 'sound detector', as you already know. If you only have range and precision to detect it, you will detect it with one exception - ground level of map - if target is behind it you will not detect his signature no matter how many modules you use or skills you have, ground level is not penetrable 'wall'.
Both of the following images are from this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqiWBB6gWXw&list=UUBw0rF1WiMtNMkfRZhXxGzwPassive scanning seeing through terrain. http://imgur.com/5TWomimSylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Are you serious? That's my entire point!
It is RADAR of your DROPSUIT so it should work in 3D, it is not RADAR of spaceship that see battleground in 2D.
because I have a 360 degree aura
BS, you have 60 degree scanning range on your Dropsuit, you see redberry on your 'back' because squad-mates see them in they 60 degree angle and squad scans are shared. Stop spreading BS, you knowledge about how passive scan works is basic.
Active Scanner should still provide exact positions
It takes 3kk less SP to skill it on lvl5, so no.. you are wrong, again. Passive scanning showing marks more than 60-¦ out of my FOV. http://imgur.com/YHE3ckuI was not in a squad, (notice the my dot is blue), so I was only getting intel from my passives. Maybe you are visiting us from 2012? Hey! welcome to 2014. Scanning hasn't worked the way you are describing since uprising 1.4. Do us a favor go back and tell the 2013 Devs that the vehicle changes in 1.7 are moronic, and to make sure they get that decimal right on the militia booster!
Don't know why you bothered responding to him. The guy's a troll and a blatant idiot.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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ReGnYuM
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Negative-Feedback
3233
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Posted - 2014.09.07 22:19:00 -
[111] - Quote
On a happier note: Funk you wanna run some stream some pubs tonight?
Escrow Removal and Acquisition- Our ERA has only just begun...
Gym Bro/ Meat Head -- CrossFit enthusiast
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Funkmaster Whale
Fatal Absolution
2448
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 22:41:00 -
[112] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:On a happier note: Funk you wanna run some stream some pubs tonight?
I'd be down. I haven't streamed in a while since the viewer count was always so low and I'm bad at marketing myself, but I could try again.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
Interregnum.
365
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 00:49:00 -
[113] - Quote
ratamaq doc wrote:Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:
What drawbacks do passive scans have
Passive scans can not penetrate ground level of map.
So if you are on flat ground with one hill, away from any outpost structures, and there is Militia Heavy behind that hill, and you can not see his shape on your screen, you can not see his signature ether even if he is 5 meters from you.
Passive scanner mechanic is construct in way that allows you to detect enemy signatures behind solid walls, buildings, and plenty of materials that should interact and disrupt your 'sound detector', as you already know. If you only have range and precision to detect it, you will detect it with one exception - ground level of map - if target is behind it you will not detect his signature no matter how many modules you use or skills you have, ground level is not penetrable 'wall'.
Both of the following images are from this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqiWBB6gWXw&list=UUBw0rF1WiMtNMkfRZhXxGzwPassive scanning seeing through terrain. http://imgur.com/5TWomim
http://youtu.be/qqiWBB6gWXw?t=6m15s
Look at your own video once again:
- At 6:15 you are on the bridge.
- At 6:17 you see all players that is running to bridge, hold it for a second and focus on guy who is on left - he is on your radar with 2 other guys. They are far away but you can see they shape, chevron, and red dot on radar.
- At 6:18 you falling from the bridge.
From moment when you start falling from bridge(6:18 to 6:19) those 3 guys that was farthest from you, disappear from your radar, they chevrons as well. You will detect them later when you will come closer to edge of the hills.
- 6:25 they blink on you radar once again.
True magic and disappearing rabbits.. right? You played as a Heave here, so you not suppose to 'see' or detect everything on your radar - I play as a scout and I'm telling you I encounter many more situations like that, and there is something wrong with ground level of the map.
ratamaq doc wrote:Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Are you serious? That's my entire point!
It is RADAR of your DROPSUIT so it should work in 3D, it is not RADAR of spaceship that see battleground in 2D.
because I have a 360 degree aura
BS, you have 60 degree scanning range on your Dropsuit, you see redberry on your 'back' because squad-mates see them in they 60 degree angle and squad scans are shared. Stop spreading BS, you knowledge about how passive scan works is basic.
Active Scanner should still provide exact positions
It takes 3kk less SP to skill it on lvl5, so no.. you are wrong, again. Passive scanning showing marks more than 60-¦ out of my FOV. http://imgur.com/YHE3ckuI was not in a squad, (notice the my dot is blue), so I was only getting intel from my passives. Passive scanning is showing me red-berry on radar on 60 degree - I'm mostly using Adv-Pro Gallente Scout suit. Something is f*ck up here because clearly you can see them on 180 degree(http://youtu.be/qqiWBB6gWXw?t=6m56s)
..and btw one more:
http://youtu.be/qqiWBB6gWXw?t=6m40s
Focuses on your radar in area of neutral turret, at 6:43 red berry blink near it - this bug was reported god know when, everyone that spawn 'blink' on radar, yet it was not fix, so do not try to prove me that scanning works perfectly.
ratamaq doc wrote:Maybe you are visiting us from 2012? Hey! welcome to 2014. Scanning hasn't worked the way you are describing since uprising 1.4. Do us a favor go back and tell the 2013 Devs that the vehicle changes in 1.7 are moronic, and to make sure they get that decimal right on the militia booster! Do me a favor and leave your feelings for yourself.
Gallente Speed Scout.
EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
945
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 01:35:00 -
[114] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:http://youtu.be/qqiWBB6gWXw?t=6m15sLook at your own video once again: - At 6:15 you are on the bridge. - At 6:17 you see all players that is running to bridge, hold it for a second and focus on guy who is on left - he is on your radar with 2 other guys. They are far away but you can see they shape, chevron, and red dot on radar. - At 6:18 you falling from the bridge. From moment when you start falling from bridge(6:18 to 6:19) those 3 guys that was farthest from you, disappear from your radar, they chevrons as well. You will detect them later when you will come closer to edge of the hills. - 6:25 they blink on you radar once again. True magic and disappearing rabbits.. right? You played as a Heave here, so you not suppose to 'see' or detect everything on your radar - I play as a scout and I'm telling you I encounter many more situations like that, and there is something wrong with ground level of the map.
Good, you are at least looking at footage to try and prove your point. Look again at the 6:15 - 6:18 footage you pointed out. The guy I kill just before falling under the bridge. He is 39m from me. The three you talk about that disappear like magic rabbits are further away than he was (over 45m) which puts them outside of my passive scan range. They're suppose to fall off my radar. And no I was not playing as a heavy. If you're confused, maybe it's because I was 'range testing' with a commando suit earlier in the video? The footage you are clipping is me in a ADV Cal Scout suit.
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Passive scanning is showing me red-berry on radar on 60 degree - I'm mostly using Adv-Pro Gallente Scout suit. Something is f*ck up here because clearly you can see them on 180 degree(http://youtu.be/qqiWBB6gWXw?t=6m56s) ..and btw one more: http://youtu.be/qqiWBB6gWXw?t=6m40sFocuses on your radar in area of neutral turret, at 6:43 red berry blink near it - this bug was reported god know when, everyone that spawn 'blink' on radar, yet it was not fix, so do not try to prove me that scanning works perfectly.
Not sure what you are saying in the first part, realizing that passives are 360-¦ I hope. I can't speak to the spawn blink bug. But that guy by the turret was at the edge of my scan range.
YouTube
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
947
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 16:15:00 -
[115] - Quote
Bump for some CCP working hours visibility.
YouTube
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1264
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Posted - 2014.09.08 19:10:00 -
[116] - Quote
+1 for OP.
One salty thing that was not mentioned, at least in op, was that above everything - we see where the red dots are facing.
Combined with 24/7 + sq sharing + on screen chevrons.... Sick as fudge.
People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
Interregnum.
365
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Posted - 2014.09.13 02:32:00 -
[117] - Quote
ratamaq doc@ Sorry, my mistake.
Gallente Speed Scout.
EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
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Atiim
12373
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Posted - 2014.09.21 23:51:00 -
[118] - Quote
Agreed.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
67
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Posted - 2014.09.22 01:08:00 -
[119] - Quote
I had this idea for scouts.
"The human being was not chosen to be a god..the god himself should become a human being."
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