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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1122
   |
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
How is it different than sneaking up on ppl's backs while cloaked as a scout? Does this not position you to unload a clip into an unsuspecting opponent even more than seeing them approach around a wall?
Also - everyone knows not to turn corners by themselves unless at their own risk.
I don't see a problem with seeing through a wall - really does not much alter mechanics of a game where players can be cloaked.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1122
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem is the pass/fail nature of passive scans. Either they always see you, or they never do. There's no dynamic, and it makes balance near impossible. If we ever get a client side update, I'd advise a revamp of the system into something dynamic, like people becoming harder to detect the farther away they are. This issue was much more engaging however pre 1.8 where I could decide with my logi or assault suit whether to damp enough to neutralize all but the 5 second active scanner...and completely nullify all passive scans with 3 damps. The monopoly on the wallhack by scouts is a large part of the imbalance. To be honest, that is a scout's job. He should be able to see a lot of what's going on around him, that's what scouting is. The issue is how easily it is for them to act on their own with their knowledge as opposed to wait for backup and let the actual slayer suits do their work. I suggested awhile back that scouts should only be allowed to equip sidearms, thus eliminating a large portion of this problem. As shotgun scouts are a beloved part of the game by the scout community, I would have basic light frames retain their light weapon slot. Thus the choice becomes you can either sacrifice your shotgun to get wallhacks and a cloak, or you can have your speedy shotgunner with less wallhacks and no cloak bonus, meaning you gimp your fit if you wish to fit it that way.
It's a great idea. Seriously. ScR scouts are just BS - clearly too powerful.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1122
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem is the pass/fail nature of passive scans. Either they always see you, or they never do. There's no dynamic, and it makes balance near impossible. If we ever get a client side update, I'd advise a revamp of the system into something dynamic, like people becoming harder to detect the farther away they are.
Min scouts who use knives are gonna love your idea - why, back to 1.4 or w/e when everyone can see you all the time - challenge FTW.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1122
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 08:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think EWar is only OP when you see proto dicks in pubs - but all proto dicks have been consistently OP in pubs regardless of specialty suits used or any given game build. There is a group of ppl who will always try to stack OP things and beat up the smaller kids.
It's funny how ppl refer to wall hacks as exploits but have no problem running a squad of suits that each has 2x more HP than ppl on the opposing team. And how about using a KBM combo against the general controller crowd?
The complaints about wall hack are laughable because they fade in comparison to all these other mechanics that are in the game on purpose.
E War actually brings a bit more balance to what otherwise would have been a god mode steamroll - ppl who have been playing the game to remember Imperfects know exactly what true exploits in this game are. If you are not sure about what I am talking about, join a game again Niyan San solo.
Now regarding balance - Min scout is a perfect example of a balanced EWar suit. Sure 1 v 1 you can kill anyone but you are never 1 v 1. There is always compromise:
See a lot or be invisible
Be invisible or have more than 200 ehp
Increase your passive range or be invisible
For each surprise wall hack knife kill I get on basic Min Scout I die twice to random things like anyone blindly spraying Assault rifle half way across the map.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1122
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 08:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:How is it different than sneaking up on ppl's backs while cloaked as a scout? Does this not position you to unload a clip into an unsuspecting opponent even more than seeing them approach around a wall?
Also - everyone knows not to turn corners by themselves unless at their own risk.
I don't see a problem with seeing through a wall - really does not much alter mechanics of a game where players can be cloaked. It really does because it makes the role of slayer Scouts way too easy, which is why there's so many of them now. By not having red dots appear through walls Scouts would have to rely on their radar combined with actually having to search for an enemy. You wouldn't instantly know where someone is only that there's definitely someone in your vicinity. It would actually make Scouts have to focus on looking at the game instead of playing whack-a-mole with the red dots that pop up on their screen.
I don't understand what you mean by "relying on the radar while not knowing where a red dot is" - seems contradictory.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1123
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 17:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:How is it different than sneaking up on ppl's backs while cloaked as a scout? Does this not position you to unload a clip into an unsuspecting opponent even more than seeing them approach around a wall?
Also - everyone knows not to turn corners by themselves unless at their own risk.
I don't see a problem with seeing through a wall - really does not much alter mechanics of a game where players can be cloaked. It really does because it makes the role of slayer Scouts way too easy, which is why there's so many of them now. By not having red dots appear through walls Scouts would have to rely on their radar combined with actually having to search for an enemy. You wouldn't instantly know where someone is only that there's definitely someone in your vicinity. It would actually make Scouts have to focus on looking at the game instead of playing whack-a-mole with the red dots that pop up on their screen. I don't understand what you mean by "relying on the radar while not knowing where a red dot is" - seems contradictory. I believe what he is saying is that the red dots should show up only on the radar with passive scans, not light up in your normal field of vision. That's the difference between "ewar" and "lolwallhax". You shouldn't be able to see the other player right in front of you without even so much as having to look up at the HUD. Think of it as pinging them as opposed to using X-ray vision.
Ah, yeah I see - I would have no problem with this at all - makes good sense. I did not realize even that this was the core of the discussion. Makes sense to me - not a bad idea at all.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1126
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 06:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem is the pass/fail nature of passive scans. Either they always see you, or they never do. There's no dynamic, and it makes balance near impossible. If we ever get a client side update, I'd advise a revamp of the system into something dynamic, like people becoming harder to detect the farther away they are. This issue was much more engaging however pre 1.8 where I could decide with my logi or assault suit whether to damp enough to neutralize all but the 5 second active scanner...and completely nullify all passive scans with 3 damps. The monopoly on the wallhack by scouts is a large part of the imbalance. To be honest, that is a scout's job. He should be able to see a lot of what's going on around him, that's what scouting is. The issue is how easily it is for them to act on their own with their knowledge as opposed to wait for backup and let the actual slayer suits do their work. As long as the scout suit has 1 HP and a sidearm, he will be able to kill any suit in the game. That is the power of passive scan intel combined with virtual invisibility. Scans, or stealth. I don't think a scout should be doing both.
I don't think you play as Min scout much then. It's very rock-paper-scisors-y. Sure you can ambush any suit and OHK them with, for argument's stake, Ishuk NK. But for every kill like that there is gonna be plenty of instances where you get randomly blown up by a single grenade that was not even meant for you, or OHK'd by a sniper who can see you really well even when cloaked.
Dust is definitely not a 1 v 1 game or at least, as most ppl here would probably agree, not supposed to be 1v1. So, eHP is definitely a not nothing.
The problem with scouts is that there are some very OP combo's. Proto Scouts with 500 eHP can insta shoot while not fully decloaked dealing massive damage from a SG that's got 6 shots.
These very unbalanced combo's must be undermined, not all scouts nerfed which would be a mistake. For example, there is no way Min Scout should be nerfed - you never see one of them go a game with a massively bloated KDR despite their E-War and cloaks. Why? Because they have PG and slot layout limitations and their bonuses make good sense (like NK bonus is a great example of not given a massive advantage to a suit while being very useful and attracting a good niche of players).
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1126
|
Posted - 2014.09.07 06:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:If its not been mentioned yet, remove the symbol that shows which way they are facing and replace it with a red dot.
This way, you at least won't know exactly which way they are facing.
Overall, it's a good idea but again I am worried that it would disproportionately hurt min scouts who work in very close quarters and already are struggling compared to other scouts.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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