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Sticky:Hotfix Charlie - Sentinel and Assault PG/CPU changes

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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4487	Posted - 2014.07.18 16:13:00 - [1] - Quote Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 41	Posted - 2014.07.18 16:22:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little Hi Rattati ! I've already seen for the PRO Caldari Assault... And it needs more CPU, I don't want more CPU to do an OP suit, but if I want to have a good Caldari-suit, I must have more CPU I propose : 317 => 330CPU So 330x1.30 = 429 CPU I think it's correct like this Because with 17CPU more, I could have +22.1 finally, but it's not enought to have a basic shield energizer Hawever, thank you for changes and for listening to us
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2504	Posted - 2014.07.18 16:39:00 - [3] - Quote Not Steep enough for the Gallante Heavy and probably the Amarr as well you can still fit all complex modules with a tad bit of PG and CPU left over. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 471	Posted - 2014.07.18 16:47:00 - [4] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little Hi Rattati ! I've already seen for the PRO Caldari Assault... And it needs more CPU, I don't want more CPU to do an OP suit, but if I want to have a good Caldari-suit, I must have more CPU I propose : 317 => 330CPU So 330x1.30 = 429 CPU I think it's correct like this Because with 17CPU more, I could have +22.1 finally, but it's not enought to have a basic shield energizer However, thank you for changes and for listening to us im not going to say you did anything wrong with your fit. but i cant make an argument for that because at the PRO. you can use a cpu mod and you cpu issues are solved. ill be looking at all cal assault tiers in a moment.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 41	Posted - 2014.07.18 16:51:00 - [5] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little Hi Rattati ! I've already seen for the PRO Caldari Assault... And it needs more CPU, I don't want more CPU to do an OP suit, but if I want to have a good Caldari-suit, I must have more CPU I propose : 317 => 330CPU So 330x1.30 = 429 CPU I think it's correct like this Because with 17CPU more, I could have +22.1 finally, but it's not enought to have a basic shield energizer However, thank you for changes and for listening to us im not going to say you did anything wrong with your fit. but i cant make an argument for that because at the PRO. you can use a cpu mod and you cpu issues are solved. ill be looking at all cal assault tiers in a moment. Rattati has said some times ago : "don't need absolutly a CPU mod" I know I can fit it, but it might caldari will loose 1 mod ?
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 471	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:03:00 - [6] - Quote PROTO Cal Assault: 3 complex extenders 2 complex energizers 1 complex shield regulator 1 complex cpu mod proto RR proto bolt pistol proto av grenades std needle 450 shield hp 86.48 shield hp/s 3.07 second shield delay 8.41 depleted shield delay 558/562 cpu 74/85 pg im look at this as my primary suit. good mix of tank vs regen and i can fit a needle.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3924	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:12:00 - [7] - Quote If 25% of the capacity required for a Heavy Weapon equals 10% of the capacity of a Sentinel suit of the same tier as the Weapon, then this should not hurt true Sentinels. There are some specific instances where I would equip a light weapon on a Sentinel (Manis Peak Domination), but I am fine with having to downgrade some modules to be able to do that. Making a suit function outside of its intended role should not be easy. This is a good way to define roles without completely removing the playerGÇÖs ability to think outside of the box. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 692	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:17:00 - [8] - Quote First thought: You shouldn't think of capacity as "CPU+PG" because PG is dramatically more valuable than CPU is. Try balancing it around "Capacity = CPU + 5 * PG" and then apply racial CPU/PG balance. E.g. armor tankers have have 100 capacity as 44 CPU and 11 PG and shield tankers have the same capacity as 9 PG for every 55 CPU (numbers rounded to the nearest decimal). Otherwise you may end up dishing out too much PG.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 471	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:19:00 - [9] - Quote ADV Cal Assault: 2 enhanced extenders 2 enhanced rechargers 1 enhanced shield regulator adv RR adv bolt pistol std av grenades 372 shield hp 48.28 shield hp/s 3.9 shield delay 7.53 depleted shield delay 288/293 cpu 37/59 pg from proto to adv, you have to downgrade all mods to enhanced because you dont have the cpu mod. you also lose the equipment and need to downgrade to td av nades, completely skipping over the adv av nades. overall, this makes a cheaper suit, but completely inferior next to proto, as the proto varant i made is blantanly better in every way possible.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3924	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:19:00 - [10] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Rattati has said some times ago : "don't need absolutly a CPU mod" I know I can fit it, but it might caldari will loose 1 mod ? Yeah, as a principle I believe that if you have the appropriate CPU and PG skills maxed you should never need a CPU or PG module to make a race appropriate fit. If you do, then the suit does not have a high enough capacity. CPU and PG modules are for when you donGÇÖt have all your skills levelled or you are trying something very none standard. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3924	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:25:00 - [11] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: First thought: You shouldn't think of capacity as "CPU+PG" because PG is dramatically more valuable than CPU is. Try balancing it around "Capacity = CPU + 5 * PG" and then apply racial CPU/PG balance. E.g. armor tankers have have 100 capacity as 44 CPU and 11 PG and shield tankers have the same capacity as 9 PG for every 55 CPU (numbers rounded to the nearest decimal). Otherwise you may end up dishing out too much PG. That is a good point. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 226	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:30:00 - [12] - Quote Caldari assault still needs a cpu chip to have shields recharge at a competitive level. 8 seconds of no recharge with a depleted shield will seem like an eternity with no armor.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 471	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:38:00 - [13] - Quote STD Cal Assault: 2 enhanced extenders 1 enhanced recharger 1 enhanced shield regulator std RR std bolt pistol std av grenades std needle 372 shield hp 38.63 shield hp/s 3.9 shield delay 7.53 depleted shield delay 211/217 cpu 30/43 pg at std level, you lose some regen. downgrade to std weapons, but for some reason you can fit a needle when you couldnt on the adv suit overall, the progression looks fine. std regen is lower than what i get currently (~66 hp/s @ 262 shield hp), but the bump in shield hp is good. at adv level you gain an enhance suit lol. for the price its pretty fair for what you get. at proto level you get a big bump but it costs alot more for it. the question is will this widen the gap between protos and everybody not in proto? were these slots, cpu/pg balanced on the idea that everyone is going to brick tank though?
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 42	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:38:00 - [14] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Rattati has said some times ago : "don't need absolutly a CPU mod" I know I can fit it, but it might caldari will loose 1 mod ? Yeah, as a principle I believe that if you have the appropriate CPU and PG skills maxed you should never need a CPU or PG module to make a race/role appropriate fit. If you do, then the suit does not have a high enough capacity. CPU and PG modules are for when you donGÇÖt have all your skills levelled or you are trying something very none standard. Ho... Sorry, I've CPU lvl5 ; PG lvl4 (but that's not a problem) ; core upgrade lvl5 ; light weapon operation lvl5 sidearm weapon lvl4 explosives lvl 4 I think that's not for 3 CPU I must fit a CPU mod... I've all (or early) at lvl5, so there is a problem
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 64	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:51:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little Caldari assault needs about 15% more cpu, as energizers take the most out of the suit and I don't think 10% is enough, also, leave the cal sent cpu alone, as a basic hmg, an extender, 2 complex enerhjzers and a shield reg basically maxes my cpu. Just saw the sheet You nerfed cal sent cpu a tad too much, cal assault needs way more cpu Put a cpu mod on proto cal assault, just basic so it's 15%, then change the numbers to that, 17 cpu isn't going to help... Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 737	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:53:00 - [16] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little Hi Rattati ! I've already seen for the PRO Caldari Assault... And it needs more CPU, I don't want more CPU to do an OP suit, but if I want to have a good Caldari-suit, I must have more CPU I propose : 317 => 330CPU So 330x1.30 = 429 CPU I think it's correct like this Because with 17CPU more, I could have +22.1 finally, but it's not enought to have a basic shield energizer However, thank you for changes and for listening to us That's not quite how it works fyi (3171.05)1.25 = 416 My min assault currently has 420 when maxed out and I have made the 5/2 layout work pretty well with this amount of CPU. However, fitting a beast mode energizer or two should require a CPU mod. It's part of the balance structure of shield recharge. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 64	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:58:00 - [17] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little Hi Rattati ! I've already seen for the PRO Caldari Assault... And it needs more CPU, I don't want more CPU to do an OP suit, but if I want to have a good Caldari-suit, I must have more CPU I propose : 317 => 330CPU So 330x1.30 = 429 CPU I think it's correct like this Because with 17CPU more, I could have +22.1 finally, but it's not enought to have a basic shield energizer However, thank you for changes and for listening to us im not going to say you did anything wrong with your fit. but i cant make an argument for that because at the PRO. you can use a cpu mod and you cpu issues are solved. ill be looking at all cal assault tiers in a moment. Rattati has said some times ago : "don't need absolutly a CPU mod" I know I can fit it, but it might caldari will loose 1 mod ? And it's use w compkex shield regs or don't use them at all, at least to be competitive, anything above 3 seconds for shield recharge is too high, as armor gets 20 hp/s on pro suits because 2 reps with 0 delay. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 64	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:00:00 - [18] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little Hi Rattati ! I've already seen for the PRO Caldari Assault... And it needs more CPU, I don't want more CPU to do an OP suit, but if I want to have a good Caldari-suit, I must have more CPU I propose : 317 => 330CPU So 330x1.30 = 429 CPU I think it's correct like this Because with 17CPU more, I could have +22.1 finally, but it's not enought to have a basic shield energizer However, thank you for changes and for listening to us That's not quite how it works fyi (3171.05)1.25 = 416 My min assault currently has 420 when maxed out and I have made the 5/2 layout work pretty well with this amount of CPU. However, fitting a beast mode energizer or two should require a CPU mod. It's part of the balance structure of shield recharge. Um, no. Unless you make it mandatory for armor tankers to use pg upgrades to use complex reppers, as for the weak base recharge of cal ass. You need a complex energizer. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 42	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:01:00 - [19] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little Hi Rattati ! I've already seen for the PRO Caldari Assault... And it needs more CPU, I don't want more CPU to do an OP suit, but if I want to have a good Caldari-suit, I must have more CPU I propose : 317 => 330CPU So 330x1.30 = 429 CPU I think it's correct like this Because with 17CPU more, I could have +22.1 finally, but it's not enought to have a basic shield energizer However, thank you for changes and for listening to us That's not quite how it works fyi (3171.05)1.25 = 416 My min assault currently has 420 when maxed out and I have made the 5/2 layout work pretty well with this amount of CPU. However, fitting a beast mode energizer or two should require a CPU mod. It's part of the balance structure of shield recharge. Yes, but you will get a PG/CPU buff for hotfix C, we too. So, we should have more CPU than now, and than you have now... You speak about your fit NOW, without CPU buff, I speak about my fit AFTER hotfix Charlie, so I think it's noraml to have more CPU than you have now. I can tell you the same thing : you don't need PG/CPU buff... you have enought CPU/PG to fit a good Min assault after hotfix Chalie But I don't, because the objective of Rattati is IMPROVE the assaults situation, so more CPU is important for the Caldari JRleo jr wrote: Rattati has said some times ago : "don't need absolutly a CPU mod" I know I can fit it, but it might caldari will loose 1 mod ? And it's use w compkex shield regs or don't use them at all, at least to be competitive, anything above 3 seconds for shield recharge is too high, as armor gets 20 hp/s on pro suits because 2 reps with 0 delay.[/quote] That's why I want to have more CPU Fit 3 extenders, 2 energizers, 2 regulators... But it would be impossible without more CPU
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 738	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:11:00 - [20] - Quote @ killer You forget that you have better base shield recharge, shield delay, and shield depleted delay than my minmatar assault has. So you're effectively getting what my min assault has now except with 2 free basic mods attached. Look there's balance between recharge and delay. If you want super high recharge you have to sacrifice shield delay and vise versa. You guys are gonna be able to achieve 450 HP @ 80 hp/s. Seriously what are you complaining about? What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 65	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:11:00 - [21] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Boot Booter wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little Hi Rattati ! I've already seen for the PRO Caldari Assault... And it needs more CPU, I don't want more CPU to do an OP suit, but if I want to have a good Caldari-suit, I must have more CPU I propose : 317 => 330CPU So 330x1.30 = 429 CPU I think it's correct like this Because with 17CPU more, I could have +22.1 finally, but it's not enought to have a basic shield energizer However, thank you for changes and for listening to us That's not quite how it works fyi (3171.05)1.25 = 416 My min assault currently has 420 when maxed out and I have made the 5/2 layout work pretty well with this amount of CPU. However, fitting a beast mode energizer or two should require a CPU mod. It's part of the balance structure of shield recharge. Yes, but you will get a PG/CPU buff for hotfix C, we too. So, we should have more CPU than now, and than you have now... You speak about your fit NOW, without CPU buff, I speak about my fit AFTER hotfix Charlie, so I think it's noraml to have more CPU than you have now. I can tell you the same thing : you don't need PG/CPU buff... you have enought CPU/PG to fit a good Min assault after hotfix Chalie But I don't, because the objective of Rattati is IMPROVE the assaults situation, so more CPU is important for the Caldari JRleo jr wrote: Rattati has said some times ago : "don't need absolutly a CPU mod" I know I can fit it, but it might caldari will loose 1 mod ? And it's use w compkex shield regs or don't use them at all, at least to be competitive, anything above 3 seconds for shield recharge is too high, as armor gets 20 hp/s on pro suits because 2 reps with 0 delay. That's why I want to have more CPU Fit 3 extenders, 2 energizers, 2 regulators... But it would be impossible without more CPU[/quote] Yea my fitting is 1 basic cpu mod, complex energizer, 2 shield regs, and fill the rest with extenders. Cal assault just needs 15% base cpu buff, I don't use sidearm or equipment and I can't fit crap even with a std weapon at proto without a cpu mod. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3614	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:15:00 - [22] - Quote You shouldnt nerfed the caldari and minmatarr sentinels. They allready have the lowest amount of HP and are overshadowed by gallente and amarr cause they can be repaired which encourages plate stacking.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 65	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:16:00 - [23] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: @ killer You forget that you have better base shield recharge, shield delay, and shield depleted delay than my minmatar assault has. So you're effectively getting what my min assault has now except with 2 free basic mods attached. Look there's balance between recharge and delay. If you want super high recharge you have to sacrifice shield delay and vise versa. You guys are gonna be able to achieve 450 HP @ 80 hp/s. Seriously what are you complaining about? For shields anything higher than a 3.5s delay is too high, or 4 And yet armor gets 600 hp and over 100 hp/s with a rep or 20 hp/s or more with no delay and shields to cover armor. Also acting like 450 hp is anything, besides you can't get 80 hp/s... Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 43	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:29:00 - [24] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: @ killer You forget that you have better base shield recharge, shield delay, and shield depleted delay than my minmatar assault has. So you're effectively getting what my min assault has now except with 2 free basic mods attached. Look there's balance between recharge and delay. If you want super high recharge you have to sacrifice shield delay and vise versa. You guys are gonna be able to achieve 450 HP @ 80 hp/s. Seriously what are you complaining about? Ok, I've better shield regulator and shield regen, but, what do you have you ? - more speed - more stamine - more armor passive hp - more stamina regen Sorry, I know what must the Caldari have to fit a ggod suit... And if Caldari gets more CPU, the other races would get more CPU too... So... What's the problem ? Do you hate Caldari ? Do you want we not to have a good fit ? Or do you just think the suppl buff would be just for Caldari ? EDIT : with the PG/CPU buff, we could get less PG/CPU than you have now... ouch....
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 474	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:42:00 - [25] - Quote The adv cal assault needs more CPU. You should be able to fit adv av nades at minimum on the fit I posted.
Al the destroyer Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 164	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:50:00 - [26] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: You shouldnt nerfed the caldari and minmatarr sentinels. They allready have the lowest amount of HP and are overshadowed by gallente and amarr cause they can be repaired which encourages plate stacking. This a big +1 AMERICA! WITHOUT US YOU WOULD HAVE NO ONE TO LOOK UP TO. GET SUM!
Al the destroyer Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 164	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:53:00 - [27] - Quote What about the useless A-logi with the removal of the sidearm, please boost PG to the other logis level if you do not with no sidearm the suit will not be used by me it has 8 less PG than other logis I see no reason for this!!! AMERICA! WITHOUT US YOU WOULD HAVE NO ONE TO LOOK UP TO. GET SUM!
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 740	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:08:00 - [28] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Boot Booter wrote: @ killer You forget that you have better base shield recharge, shield delay, and shield depleted delay than my minmatar assault has. So you're effectively getting what my min assault has now except with 2 free basic mods attached. Look there's balance between recharge and delay. If you want super high recharge you have to sacrifice shield delay and vise versa. You guys are gonna be able to achieve 450 HP @ 80 hp/s. Seriously what are you complaining about? Ok, I've better shield regulator and shield regen, but, what do you have you ? - more speed - more stamine - more armor passive hp - more stamina regen Sorry, I know what must the Caldari have to fit a ggod suit... And if Caldari gets more CPU, the other races would get more CPU too... So... What's the problem ? Do you hate Caldari ? Do you want we not to have a good fit ? Or do you just think the suppl buff would be just for Caldari ? EDIT : with the PG/CPU buff, we could get less PG/CPU than you have now... ouch.... EDIT2 : you say we have "2 free mod more than you" => you have many freemods more than us : - cardiac regulator - kinetic catalyser - ferroscale plate 3 mods free more pg cpu OK if you want to play that game, you also have a free complex shield extender worth 54 CPU and 11 PG. I don't hate the Caldari I just don't think you deserve a huge CPU buff on top of the CPU buff that Rattati posted. I find it ridiculous that you think you should be able to put on 2 regulators, 2 energizer, and stack HP as well. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 65	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:25:00 - [29] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Boot Booter wrote: @ killer You forget that you have better base shield recharge, shield delay, and shield depleted delay than my minmatar assault has. So you're effectively getting what my min assault has now except with 2 free basic mods attached. Look there's balance between recharge and delay. If you want super high recharge you have to sacrifice shield delay and vise versa. You guys are gonna be able to achieve 450 HP @ 80 hp/s. Seriously what are you complaining about? Ok, I've better shield regulator and shield regen, but, what do you have you ? - more speed - more stamine - more armor passive hp - more stamina regen Sorry, I know what must the Caldari have to fit a ggod suit... And if Caldari gets more CPU, the other races would get more CPU too... So... What's the problem ? Do you hate Caldari ? Do you want we not to have a good fit ? Or do you just think the suppl buff would be just for Caldari ? EDIT : with the PG/CPU buff, we could get less PG/CPU than you have now... ouch.... EDIT2 : you say we have "2 free mod more than you" => you have many freemods more than us : - cardiac regulator - kinetic catalyser - ferroscale plate 3 mods free more pg cpu OK if you want to play that game, you also have a free complex shield extender worth 54 CPU and 11 PG. I don't hate the Caldari I just don't think you deserve a huge CPU buff on top of the CPU buff that Rattati posted. I find it ridiculous that you think you should be able to put on 2 regulators, 2 energizer, and stack HP as well. And yet armor tankers get 2 complex reps, 2 complex plates and shield extenders... Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 475	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:25:00 - [30] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Also acting like 450 hp is anything, besides you can't get 80 hp/s... 450 shield hp and 86.48 shield hp/s and a 3.07 seconds shield delay is possible with two complex energizers but only on the proto cal ass. i posted the fit earlier in this thread.

Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 742	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:40:00 - [31] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Also acting like 450 hp is anything, besides you can't get 80 hp/s... 450 shield hp and 86.48 shield hp/s and a 3.07 seconds shield delay is possible with two complex energizers but only on the proto cal ass. i posted the fit earlier in this thread. Killer wrote: And yet armor tankers get 2 complex reps, 2 complex plates and shield extenders... Using the fit that death posted you will match the armor tanker in total hp repaired by 4 seconds and totally surpass them following. Armor tanker with 550 hp @ 20 hp/s will take 28 seconds to fully repair. With only one energizer you could reach 540 hp with 50 hp/s and a 3 sec delay = 14 seconds full repair. I don't think I need to say more about this. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 742	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:43:00 - [32] - Quote Can someone please attempt a assault ak. 0 fit as well as a gk. 0 for comparison? I specifically worried about these two, namely that amarr will be more desirable. I'm working on a minmatar at the moment. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 43	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:45:00 - [33] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: OK if you want to play that game, you also have a free complex shield extender worth 54 CPU and 11 PG. I don't hate the Caldari I just don't think you deserve a huge CPU buff on top of the CPU buff that Rattati posted. I find it ridiculous that you think you should be able to put on 2 regulators, 2 energizer, and stack HP as well. I don't wanna play any game, old bro Just say what I think be the best for Caldari Assault... My opinion is asked, I say my opinion. Don't become angry Boot Booter wrote: Killer wrote: And yet armor tankers get 2 complex reps, 2 complex plates and shield extenders... Using the fit that death posted you will match the armor tanker in total hp repaired by 4 seconds and totally surpass them following. Armor tanker with 550 hp @ 20 hp/s will take 28 seconds to fully repair. With only one energizer you could reach 540 hp with 50 hp/s and a 3 sec delay = 14 seconds full repair. I don't think I need to say more about this. I don't ever written this, unless you're talking about an other "Killer......." lol
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 742	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:50:00 - [34] - Quote ^ oops sorry about that Not angry man, just trying to show you that you don't need more CPU. Caldari Assault fits are looking pretty impressive as is (at least at pro) What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 20	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:54:00 - [35] - Quote As far as heavies and cap go, I propose an idea I've been mulling around for some time. Do what you did with cloak fields, but in reverse. Make heavy weapons have comparatively low fitting costs, (as they are large enough to have an external supplemental power supply), and give sentinels less cap accordingly. Then they will inherently have less fitting, and they can choose between higher tier weaponry than their suit, or higher tier tank. This also creates a solution t the "problem" of heavies carrying light weapons. Ultimately a dropsuit should have enough cap to run similar equipment to their tier. Ideally, if people want better weapons/mods than their dropsuit, they should put PG/CPU mods, or sacrifice other modules. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 66	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:55:00 - [36] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Also acting like 450 hp is anything, besides you can't get 80 hp/s... 450 shield hp and 86.48 shield hp/s and a 3.07 seconds shield delay is possible with two complex energizers but only on the proto cal ass. i posted the fit earlier in this thread. Killer wrote: And yet armor tankers get 2 complex reps, 2 complex plates and shield extenders... Using the fit that death posted you will match the armor tanker in total hp repaired by 4 seconds and totally surpass them following. Armor tanker with 550 hp @ 20 hp/s will take 28 seconds to fully repair. With only one energizer you could reach 540 hp with 50 hp/s and a 3 sec delay = 14 seconds full repair. I don't think I need to say more about this. 14 seconds is quite alot because shields get insta melted And shields can't be repped by a rep tool And where are you getting 550 hp from? Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 43	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:57:00 - [37] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: ^ oops sorry about that Not angry man, just trying to show you that you don't need more CPU. Caldari Assault fits are looking pretty impressive as is (at least at pro) I don't need more and more CPU absolutely Just it could be easier to fit complex mods But, whatever happens, all assault need more stamina and stamina regen, I hope you not to reject that
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 478	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:58:00 - [38] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Also acting like 450 hp is anything, besides you can't get 80 hp/s... 450 shield hp and 86.48 shield hp/s and a 3.07 seconds shield delay is possible with two complex energizers but only on the proto cal ass. i posted the fit earlier in this thread. Killer wrote: And yet armor tankers get 2 complex reps, 2 complex plates and shield extenders... Using the fit that death posted you will match the armor tanker in total hp repaired by 4 seconds and totally surpass them following. Armor tanker with 550 hp @ 20 hp/s will take 28 seconds to fully repair. With only one energizer you could reach 540 hp with 50 hp/s and a 3 sec delay = 14 seconds full repair. I don't think I need to say more about this. a very useful fit for those expecting a lot of 1v1 fights or cqc. i like it
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 44	Posted - 2014.07.18 20:19:00 - [39] - Quote Ok that's a bit cheat lol - 3 shield extenders - 2 basic shield energizer - light weapon proto - sidearm weapon basic - m1 - nanohive - 2 enhanced shield regulator => shield regen : 53,4hp/sec => (if CCP gives +120hp shield) (210 + 120)x1.25 + 3x72.2 = 629.1hp shield => shield delay regen : 2.75sec => shield spent delay regen : 4.56sec Hoooo yeah
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 632	Posted - 2014.07.18 20:27:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little EDIT: Please do not factor in the theoretical new layout. Use current slot layouts for theory crafting as those are familiar to you. Combining the two discussions will result in inconclusive data for us. YES!!! Finally! A "real" look at what matters in balancing the dropsuit roles! Please continue to look at corpsuit copacity in this manner and you will find that brick-tanking and how the players will abuse things for the wrong purposes will become spotted more easily. Keep up this kinda work please!

Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3625	Posted - 2014.07.18 20:31:00 - [41] - Quote I think the Amarr PG buff is not needed since they already got a big buff and still have the most CPU/PG. Also, I would have liked to see CPU buffed for the Gallente and Caldari suits. Other then that, it looks great. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 66	Posted - 2014.07.18 20:31:00 - [42] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Ok that's a bit cheat lol - 3 shield extenders - 2 basic shield energizer - light weapon proto - sidearm weapon basic - m1 - nanohive - 2 enhanced shield regulator => shield regen : 53,4hp/sec => (if CCP gives +120hp shield) (210 + 120)x1.25 + 3x72.2 = 629.1hp shield => shield delay regen : 2.75sec => shield spent delay regen : 4.56sec Hoooo yeah 53 hp/s? Lol, barely anything for shield suits since armor rep buff. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3625	Posted - 2014.07.18 20:34:00 - [43] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Ok that's a bit cheat lol - 3 shield extenders - 2 basic shield energizer - light weapon proto - sidearm weapon basic - m1 - nanohive - 2 enhanced shield regulator => shield regen : 53,4hp/sec => (if CCP gives +120hp shield) (210 + 120)x1.25 + 3x72.2 = 629.1hp shield => shield delay regen : 2.75sec => shield spent delay regen : 4.56sec Hoooo yeah 53 hp/s? Lol, barely anything for shield suits since armor rep buff. Uhhhhh, have you tried reps? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 44	Posted - 2014.07.18 20:41:00 - [44] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Ok that's a bit cheat lol - 3 shield extenders - 2 basic shield energizer - light weapon proto - sidearm weapon basic - m1 - nanohive - 2 enhanced shield regulator => shield regen : 53,4hp/sec => (if CCP gives +120hp shield) (210 + 120)x1.25 + 3x72.2 = 629.1hp shield => shield delay regen : 2.75sec => shield spent delay regen : 4.56sec Hoooo yeah 53 hp/s? Lol, barely anything for shield suits since armor rep buff. Uhhhhh, have you tried reps? Yes lol ! With 2 complexe armor repair = 20,... hp/sec (with gallente assault) I could have 53hp/s + 2.53 sec (or 4.56) If you have 620 hp (I imagine) Gallente with 20hp/s : 31sec Caldari with 53hp/sec and 2.53sec : 2.53 + 12sec = 14.53sec Caldari with 53hp/sec and spent shield (4.56sec) = 4.56 + 12sec = 16,56sec Hooo god... Thanks to have created Rattati
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 66	Posted - 2014.07.18 20:54:00 - [45] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Ok that's a bit cheat lol - 3 shield extenders - 2 basic shield energizer - light weapon proto - sidearm weapon basic - m1 - nanohive - 2 enhanced shield regulator => shield regen : 53,4hp/sec => (if CCP gives +120hp shield) (210 + 120)x1.25 + 3x72.2 = 629.1hp shield => shield delay regen : 2.75sec => shield spent delay regen : 4.56sec Hoooo yeah 53 hp/s? Lol, barely anything for shield suits since armor rep buff. Uhhhhh, have you tried reps? Yes 20 hp/s no delsy, more hp, logis can rep you, in pc you never need to wait for s logi because it's pc. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 479	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:07:00 - [46] - Quote Disregarding the new slot layout: Pro cal assault: 2 complex extenders 2 complex energizers 1 complex CPU mod 2 complex regulators 377 shield hp 86.48 shield hp/s ~2 second shield delay ~8 second depleted shield delay
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 44	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:08:00 - [47] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Ok that's a bit cheat lol - 3 shield extenders - 2 basic shield energizer - light weapon proto - sidearm weapon basic - m1 - nanohive - 2 enhanced shield regulator => shield regen : 53,4hp/sec => (if CCP gives +120hp shield) (210 + 120)x1.25 + 3x72.2 = 629.1hp shield => shield delay regen : 2.75sec => shield spent delay regen : 4.56sec Hoooo yeah 53 hp/s? Lol, barely anything for shield suits since armor rep buff. Uhhhhh, have you tried reps? Yes 20 hp/s no delsy, more hp, logis can rep you, in pc you never need to wait for s logi because it's pc. First, it must be assaults on BC In BC now, there are only scout, heavy, logi... Assault ? loooool ! Joke ! hahahaha
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3629	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:08:00 - [48] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Ok that's a bit cheat lol - 3 shield extenders - 2 basic shield energizer - light weapon proto - sidearm weapon basic - m1 - nanohive - 2 enhanced shield regulator => shield regen : 53,4hp/sec => (if CCP gives +120hp shield) (210 + 120)x1.25 + 3x72.2 = 629.1hp shield => shield delay regen : 2.75sec => shield spent delay regen : 4.56sec Hoooo yeah 53 hp/s? Lol, barely anything for shield suits since armor rep buff. Uhhhhh, have you tried reps? Yes 20 hp/s no delsy, more hp, logis can rep you, in pc you never need to wait for s logi because it's pc. And the fitting cost, and slower speed from plates and the fact that any armour based suit can't get near the shield regain a shield suit has but any shield based suit can get the armour repair of armour suits. Not to mention you are comparing complex reps on a Gallente assault to enhanced mods. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 66	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:09:00 - [49] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Disregarding the new slot layout: Pro cal assault: 2 complex extenders 2 complex energizers 1 complex CPU mod 2 complex regulators 377 shield hp 86.48 shield hp/s ~3/3.5 second shield delay ~8 second depleted shield delay Fixed And shield hp is pathetic no matter the recharge rate. Enjoy dying in 5 shots from a scr... Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 66	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:11:00 - [50] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Ok that's a bit cheat lol - 3 shield extenders - 2 basic shield energizer - light weapon proto - sidearm weapon basic - m1 - nanohive - 2 enhanced shield regulator => shield regen : 53,4hp/sec => (if CCP gives +120hp shield) (210 + 120)x1.25 + 3x72.2 = 629.1hp shield => shield delay regen : 2.75sec => shield spent delay regen : 4.56sec Hoooo yeah 53 hp/s? Lol, barely anything for shield suits since armor rep buff. Uhhhhh, have you tried reps? Yes 20 hp/s no delsy, more hp, logis can rep you, in pc you never need to wait for s logi because it's pc. And the fitting cost, and slower speed from plates and the fact that any armour based suit can't get near the shield regain a shield suit has but any shield based suit can get the armour repair of armour suits. Not to mention you are comparing complex reps on a Gallente assault to enhanced mods. Hmm? In a competitive environment armor always trumps shields, they always rep faster because of the reps, so shields need less time to reach full hp without having 350 hp or so shield hp. Cal vs gal commando Gal wins regen because base recharge rate is bad Did I mention armor suits get shield and it reps making armor far superior in regen and hp? Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 479	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:39:00 - [51] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Disregarding the new slot layout: Pro cal assault: 2 complex extenders 2 complex energizers 1 complex CPU mod 2 complex regulators 377 shield hp 86.48 shield hp/s ~3/3.5 second shield delay ~8 second depleted shield delay Fixed And shield hp is pathetic no matter the recharge rate. Enjoy dying in 5 shots from a scr... Or two charge shots. But running max hp only helps in 1v1 and no matter what we do, armor tankers will have more hp. And even 553 shield hp with 4 complex extenders won't save you from a scr or LR. I actually die faster that way as the regen is so low you can't recover fast enough to either fight back or run away
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 66	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:41:00 - [52] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: JRleo jr wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Disregarding the new slot layout: Pro cal assault: 2 complex extenders 2 complex energizers 1 complex CPU mod 2 complex regulators 377 shield hp 86.48 shield hp/s ~3/3.5 second shield delay ~8 second depleted shield delay Fixed And shield hp is pathetic no matter the recharge rate. Enjoy dying in 5 shots from a scr... Or two charge shots. But running max hp only helps in 1v1 and no matter what we do, armor tankers will have more hp. And even 553 shield hp with 4 complex extenders won't save you from a scr or LR. I actually die faster that way as the regen is so low you can't recover fast enough to either fight back or run away Exept you can strafe, more hp really helps. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 44	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:43:00 - [53] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: 53 hp/s? Lol, barely anything for shield suits since armor rep buff. Uhhhhh, have you tried reps?[/quote] Yes 20 hp/s no delsy, more hp, logis can rep you, in pc you never need to wait for s logi because it's pc.[/quote] And the fitting cost, and slower speed from plates and the fact that any armour based suit can't get near the shield regain a shield suit has but any shield based suit can get the armour repair of armour suits. Not to mention you are comparing complex reps on a Gallente assault to enhanced mods.[/quote] Hmm? In a competitive environment armor always trumps shields, they always rep faster because of the reps, so shields need less time to reach full hp without having 350 hp or so shield hp. Cal vs gal commando Gal wins regen because base recharge rate is bad Did I mention armor suits get shield and it reps making armor far superior in regen and hp?[/quote] Heu... You are saying Caldari or Gallente are the best suit... That's not the question... Caldari or Gallente = different gameplay.. Any suit is better than the other... For example : I prefer playing with Caldari suit because I love playing shield... So I think Caldari is the best suit... But someone else who prefer playing with Gallente suit thinks Gallente is better...
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 479	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:44:00 - [54] - Quote Scouts

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4503	Posted - 2014.07.18 22:42:00 - [55] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: First thought: You shouldn't think of capacity as "CPU+PG" because PG is dramatically more valuable than CPU is. Try balancing it around "Capacity = CPU + 5 * PG" and then apply racial CPU/PG balance. E.g. armor tankers have have 100 capacity as 44 CPU and 11 PG and shield tankers have the same capacity as 9 PG for every 55 CPU (numbers rounded to the nearest decimal). Otherwise you may end up dishing out too much PG. That is a good point. They are balanced separately, displayed together for the sake of simplicity. No worries. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4503	Posted - 2014.07.18 22:45:00 - [56] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: You shouldnt nerfed the caldari and minmatarr sentinels. They allready have the lowest amount of HP and are overshadowed by gallente and amarr cause they can be repaired which encourages plate stacking. We are applying a consistent method to PG/CPU calculations and balancing. We, therefore, need to make shield tanking more viable to make these suits competitive or give them better bonuses. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 66	Posted - 2014.07.18 22:46:00 - [57] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: JRleo jr wrote: 53 hp/s? Lol, barely anything for shield suits since armor rep buff. Uhhhhh, have you tried reps? Yes 20 hp/s no delsy, more hp, logis can rep you, in pc you never need to wait for s logi because it's pc.[/quote] And the fitting cost, and slower speed from plates and the fact that any armour based suit can't get near the shield regain a shield suit has but any shield based suit can get the armour repair of armour suits. Not to mention you are comparing complex reps on a Gallente assault to enhanced mods.[/quote] Hmm? In a competitive environment armor always trumps shields, they always rep faster because of the reps, so shields need less time to reach full hp without having 350 hp or so shield hp. Cal vs gal commando Gal wins regen because base recharge rate is bad Did I mention armor suits get shield and it reps making armor far superior in regen and hp?[/quote] Heu... You are saying Caldari or Gallente are the best suit... That's not the question... Caldari or Gallente = different gameplay.. Any suit is better than the other... For example : I prefer playing with Caldari suit because I love playing shield... So I think Caldari is the best suit... But someone else who prefer playing with Gallente suit thinks Gallente is better... [/quote] I don't think you understand, what's your lifetime sp just for curiosity? And gallente is just superior in terms of the cal play style since they're are alot of logis in a competitive environment. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 66	Posted - 2014.07.18 22:47:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The dark cloud wrote: You shouldnt nerfed the caldari and minmatarr sentinels. They allready have the lowest amount of HP and are overshadowed by gallente and amarr cause they can be repaired which encourages plate stacking. We are applying a consistent method to PG/CPU calculations and balancing. We, therefore, need to make shield tanking more viable to make these suits competitive or give them better bonuses. For starters, more base speed for shield heavies, at least to the speed of regular heavy frames. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4504	Posted - 2014.07.18 22:49:00 - [59] - Quote Please, when theorycrafting, whether to prove the Sentinels are now broken or still OP, or the vice versa for Assault, provide links to protofits. We will not be able to keep up testing them. Much appreciated "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 44	Posted - 2014.07.18 22:55:00 - [60] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: I don't think you understand, what's your lifetime sp just for curiosity? And gallente is just superior in terms of the cal play style since they're are alot of logis in a competitive environment. My SP ? 33.3M Yes, if you have logi with you in your squad, Gallente is better I've said : different gameplay I enjoy playing yes, in a squad) but not depending of a logi... Shield is better when you are alone... The problem of Caldari is that any equipment is for shield-tanker... Any shield reper tool..


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4505	Posted - 2014.07.18 22:56:00 - [61] - Quote Also, Grenades will be factored into the Fitting bonus for Assaults, currently Light Weapons and Sidearms only. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 44	Posted - 2014.07.18 22:57:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Also, Grenades will be factored into the Fitting bonus for Assaults, currently Light Weapons and Sidearms only. And for bonus on the suit ? Is it possible ?
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 744	Posted - 2014.07.18 23:14:00 - [63] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Please, when theorycrafting, whether to prove the Sentinels are now broken or still OP, or the vice versa for Assault, provide links to protofits. We will not be able to keep up testing them. Much appreciated Erm... that would require protofits to be updated with new slot layout and capacity changes. Or am I missing something? What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 744	Posted - 2014.07.18 23:16:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Also, Grenades will be factored into the Fitting bonus for Assaults, currently Light Weapons and Sidearms only. I really really like this idea. Powerful grenades play an important role in PC and could really help assaults carve out their role. 5% per level to fitting would probably suffice. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4508	Posted - 2014.07.18 23:26:00 - [65] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Please, when theorycrafting, whether to prove the Sentinels are now broken or still OP, or the vice versa for Assault, provide links to protofits. We will not be able to keep up testing them. Much appreciated Erm... that would require protofits to be updated with new slot layout and capacity changes. Or am I missing something? Not slot layout as stipulated in the OP. If you make them manually, yes they will be over in protofits but just compare them to the numbers in the spreadsheet. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11118	Posted - 2014.07.19 00:11:00 - [66] - Quote I have to ask - Why does the Amarr get a fitting increase? It's really only the Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar Assaults who suffered from poor fitting, the Amarr only suffered from lacking a slot, which they now have had given to them. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11118	Posted - 2014.07.19 00:18:00 - [67] - Quote I believe Caldari PG should stay the same (or even lower) and instead increase their CPU more. Really it's always the CPU I lack. That 85PG isn't going to be used up anytime soon unless I run triple kin cats or something. With the Gallente Assault I'm not sure, gonna have to do some testing in proto fits. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11118	Posted - 2014.07.19 00:24:00 - [68] - Quote http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/136/5565 Here's an example. As you can see, despite everything (with the exception of the nanohive) being prototype, I still don't lack powergrid, only CPU. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11118	Posted - 2014.07.19 00:38:00 - [69] - Quote I think the Amarr Assault should remain as is, and the rest of the Assaults should be brought up to par in terms of CPU/PG. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11120	Posted - 2014.07.19 00:53:00 - [70] - Quote I believe your comparison of capacity is flawed. 1 PG != 1 CPU A better comparison would be: 1 PG = 5 CPU Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 44	Posted - 2014.07.19 01:03:00 - [71] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I believe your comparison of capacity is flawed. 1 PG != 1 CPU A better comparison would be: 1 PG = 5 CPU Not for everything... For Caldari yes, 5CPU = 1PG But for Gallente, 1CPU = 1PG I think But, at the end, we al see Caldari hasn't enought CPU For Assault Caldari buff !
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11121	Posted - 2014.07.19 01:07:00 - [72] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I believe your comparison of capacity is flawed. 1 PG != 1 CPU A better comparison would be: 1 PG = 5 CPU Not for everything... For Caldari yes, 5CPU = 1PG But for Gallente, 1CPU = 1PG I think But, at the end, we al see Caldari hasn't enought CPU I reached 1PG = 5 CPU by dividing CPU by PG on the Amarr Assault. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11121	Posted - 2014.07.19 01:18:00 - [73] - Quote I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff. Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault. From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1544	Posted - 2014.07.19 01:26:00 - [74] - Quote So, does the sentinel's new bonus replace any of the others? As much as I dislike the fat bastards, I feel that the racial bonus was a good way to do things, despite it being a bit OP. Perhaps reducing it to 2-3%? Also thanks for the PG Rattati!!! I think all OG minja's out there will join me in collectively saying so "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1549	Posted - 2014.07.19 01:30:00 - [75] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff. Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault. From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari Agreed. Also matches the slot layout and modules that should be being fit in those slots "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
Khemlar Maktaar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 35	Posted - 2014.07.19 02:35:00 - [76] - Quote BTW you just solidified the death of minmitar heavy it was already unplayable at std and barely at adv now even proto will be crap and its base stats(shield recharge and delay are still crap) so yeh my fav heavy is now dead u cannot fit enough hp on it to live long enough to make anything happen right now and with those nerfs fitting a kincat will be impossible without gimping ur fit so hard
The Eristic Dust 90210 573	Posted - 2014.07.19 03:08:00 - [77] - Quote Agree with the above. Min Sentinel does not need any kind of nerf, ESPECIALLY not a PG reduction. The basic suit will be pretty much unfittable in any reasonable way. If anything, it needs a buff, though not necessarily to its current resources. They're ok where they are. The Min Scout PG buff needs another 1-2, as well, unless KCs and Knives are going to have their PG slashed. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2111	Posted - 2014.07.19 03:49:00 - [78] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff. Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault. From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits. Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to. Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized. Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy). "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11131	Posted - 2014.07.19 03:55:00 - [79] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff. Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault. From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits. Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to. Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized. Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy). That's why you get highest PG. SCR's draw higher PG, but not really higher CPU. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 67	Posted - 2014.07.19 04:05:00 - [80] - Quote The Eristic wrote: Agree with the above. Min Sentinel does not need any kind of nerf, ESPECIALLY not a PG reduction. The basic suit will be pretty much unfittable in any reasonable way. If anything, it needs a buff, though not necessarily to its current resources. They're ok where they are. The Min Scout PG buff needs another 1-2, as well, unless KCs and Knives are going to have their PG "slashed." Even though I don't use them, yea min scout needs more pg. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3815	Posted - 2014.07.19 04:12:00 - [81] - Quote Overall I like the changes with the caveat I haven't really run any numbers myself. LOVE the way you are "encouraging" sentinels to use heavy weapons. Genius! I just want to point out to the people locked in the never-ending shield vs armor debate that it's honestly more than a little disingenuous to use "you can get 100 reps/s with a logi" as a reason to massively buff shield regen. It's a whole other player, not a module! You shoudn't be able to approximate the same regen with any number of mods or fitting power increase, because you aren't two people. (This is not to say that I think that shields and armor are balanced, but lets try to compare apples to apples here!) (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2111	Posted - 2014.07.19 04:20:00 - [82] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Harpyja wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff. Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault. From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits. Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to. Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized. Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy). That's why you get highest PG. SCR's draw higher PG, but not really higher CPU. Are you blind? I mentioned that laser rifles have highest CPU requirements. My advanced LR has almost as much CPU draw as a proto combat rifle (74 vs 78 iirc). "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11132	Posted - 2014.07.19 04:23:00 - [83] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Harpyja wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff. Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault. From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits. Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to. Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized. Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy). That's why you get highest PG. SCR's draw higher PG, but not really higher CPU. Are you blind? I mentioned that laser rifles have highest CPU requirements. My advanced LR has almost as much CPU draw as a proto combat rifle (74 vs 78 iirc). Umm, it costs 92CPU/10PG at proto My Duvolle costs 90CPU/13PG Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 634	Posted - 2014.07.19 04:46:00 - [84] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff. Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault. From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits. Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to. Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized. Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy). Amarr Equipment too - the Uplinks are resource intensive as well. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11133	Posted - 2014.07.19 05:08:00 - [85] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Harpyja wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff. Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault. From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits. Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to. Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized. Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy). Amarr Equipment too - the Uplinks are resource intensive as well. That's a logi concern. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 747	Posted - 2014.07.19 06:51:00 - [86] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff. Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault. From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari Well it does kinda make more sense for both fitting styles and balance reasons. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 68	Posted - 2014.07.19 07:18:00 - [87] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff. Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault. From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari Well it does kinda make more sense for both fitting styles and balance reasons. And the cal assault cpu is much better. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 748	Posted - 2014.07.19 08:34:00 - [88] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Boot Booter wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff. Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault. From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari Well it does kinda make more sense for both fitting styles and balance reasons. And the cal assault cpu is much better. haha true. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 69	Posted - 2014.07.19 08:41:00 - [89] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Boot Booter wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff. Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault. From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari Well it does kinda make more sense for both fitting styles and balance reasons. And the cal assault cpu is much better. haha true. They should do that, 390 cpu seems good enough with a 5/2 layout. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 44	Posted - 2014.07.19 08:50:00 - [90] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff. Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault. From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari TOTALY agree with you ! Hope CCP will make the same Harpyja wrote: Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU As I see, Amarr has the bigest PG (with Minmatar) but not the bigest CPU... (and less than the Minma) => you want to balance, I think this spreadsheet is correct, but, yes, maybe more PG/CPU for Amarr. => RR takes also a lot of PG/CPU and we (Caldari) have less PG/CPU than Amarr... For Assault Caldari buff !

Macchi00 LORD-BRITISH 99	Posted - 2014.07.19 09:44:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little EDIT: Please do not factor in the theoretical new layout. Use current slot layouts for theory crafting as those are familiar to you. Combining the two discussions will result in inconclusive data for us. I think lowering the CPU of the C-Assault, and we should increase the PG instead. Because, RR and Bolt pistol, and shield extender have high PG. I love ForgeGun. I made ForgeGun montage in YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIhuGxfbjSQ
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 44	Posted - 2014.07.19 10:03:00 - [92] - Quote Macchi00 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little EDIT: Please do not factor in the theoretical new layout. Use current slot layouts for theory crafting as those are familiar to you. Combining the two discussions will result in inconclusive data for us. I think lowering the CPU of the C-Assault, and we should increase the PG instead. Because, RR and Bolt pistol, and shield extender have high PG. loooool MORE CPU LESS PG For Assault Caldari buff !

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4544	Posted - 2014.07.19 10:20:00 - [93] - Quote Amarr Assault needs a second look, agreed. Anything else? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 44	Posted - 2014.07.19 10:36:00 - [94] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr Assault needs a second look, agreed. Anything else? More CPU for Caldari, and the Caldari assault will have an other look For Assault Caldari buff !
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11137	Posted - 2014.07.19 10:40:00 - [95] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr Assault needs a second look, agreed. Anything else? Can you elaborate on what you mean by that? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11137	Posted - 2014.07.19 10:51:00 - [96] - Quote Macchi00 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little EDIT: Please do not factor in the theoretical new layout. Use current slot layouts for theory crafting as those are familiar to you. Combining the two discussions will result in inconclusive data for us. I think lowering the CPU of the C-Assault, and we should increase the PG instead. Because, RR and Bolt pistol, and shield extender have high PG. Wat Caldari already fit CPU mods all the time. You want to reduce Caldari CPU further? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 186	Posted - 2014.07.19 10:52:00 - [97] - Quote Rattati, what are the plans for the amarr logi PG & CPU values if it is loosing the sidearm ? Sorry if this is the wrong thread but the spreadsheet showed Minnie scouts changes. GÇ£Their stupidity does not amaze me, its when they're smart that amazes me." GÇò Frank Zappa
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4166	Posted - 2014.07.19 10:53:00 - [98] - Quote I'm too lazy to read any of the previous posts, so please ignore if it has been said already. But when I fit my Minmatar Assault I'm left with almost no cpu and like 30 pg. Why do I have so much extra pg when the thing has FIVE HIGH SLOTS I know you don't want us basing feedback off of the new layouts... BUT, if you do end up changing the minmatar to 4/3 from 5/2, you can keep the pg as high as it is (sprint mods and other low slots). If you keep it at 5/2, PLEASE consider converting some excess pg into cpu at a rate of about 4-5 cpu for every 1 pg. That is all. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 45	Posted - 2014.07.19 10:56:00 - [99] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr Assault needs a second look, agreed. Anything else? Can you elaborate on what you mean by that? Or does he speaks about "how looks like the suit ?" Lol, if it's that, I want for the Caldari assault : the same eyes and the same belt as the Caldari logi Red eyes and belt is to much awesome For Assault Caldari buff !
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 71	Posted - 2014.07.19 11:25:00 - [100] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Macchi00 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little EDIT: Please do not factor in the theoretical new layout. Use current slot layouts for theory crafting as those are familiar to you. Combining the two discussions will result in inconclusive data for us. I think lowering the CPU of the C-Assault, and we should increase the PG instead. Because, RR and Bolt pistol, and shield extender have high PG. Wat Caldari already fit CPU mods all the time. You want to reduce Caldari CPU further? Ikr? Cal assault needs 15% cpu buff minimum, not the 4% that was proposed... Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.

Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 48	Posted - 2014.07.19 11:26:00 - [101] - Quote As for heavies, please don't forget about the Heavy Weapon Operation skill bonus when calculating for the reduction of weapons. My general proto Amarr fitting is (ish) 2 complex extenders - 110 cpu 1 complex plate - 35 cpu 2 complex armor repairers - 90 cpu Boundless/Six Kin 100 cpu (75 after bonus) STD Bolt Pistol (this is where I save a lot of fitting space, but I could easily run proto) - 10 cpu ADV Grenade (again can easily run proto) - 20 cpu Total CPU: 340ish I should barely be able to run this fitting, I should at least have to sacrifice the plate to advanced, or the removal of the grenade. If I ran a proto light weapon I would then begin to have to sacrifice more than one module. That means the CPU for the proto Amarr heavy (after circuitry bonuses) should be at least 340, at most 375. If I'm wrong with my estimates than go a bit higher, but there should be no reason why I should have over 400 cpu with my heavy.[/quote] => do you know how many mods assaults must sacrifice to have a good fit ? (example : for Gallente : 2 enhanced plates ; adv equipment ; adv sidearm weapon ; 1 hight mod adv Calda : adv grenade, 2x adv shield regulator ; 2 shield energizer ; basic sidearm weapon ; basic nanohive So don't cry because you'll have to have 1 enhanced plate... We (assault) can't fit most than 3/4 of our mods on proto For heavy + light weapon CCP wants to make more difficult to have a good fit + light weapon, that's normal, and I think it's a good idea, so if you want to have a light weapon on your heavy, you must sacrifice mods, that's normal. For Assault Caldari buff !
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4166	Posted - 2014.07.19 11:46:00 - [102] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: => do you know how many mods assaults must sacrifice to have a good fit ? Do yo know that I have 47 Million sp and I have a proto suit unlocked for all four roles in the game? I'm not a noob, I'm being rational here. First of all, they're buffing the Assault capacity (they need to buff them more than the proposed values honestly, aside from Amarr that is) My Amarr Assault can run almost all prototype modules along with a six kin SMG and a Viziam SCR (two of the most fitting intensive weapons in the game for their classes). So obviously it's not assaults all around, but maybe just the Gal and Cal assaults that should get a major buff. The Amarr Assault feels fine as is. I also just propsed that my 450ish cpu Amarr Sentinel get nerfed to about 340 cpu (after bonuses) That's a 100 cpu nerf that I (and most other people) should be completely fine with. The general rule is that you should be able to run all proto modules as long as you sacrifice your grenade and sidearm slot. Running both a proto grenade and sidearm is almost 100 cpu, which is the cost of upgrading 3 modules to complex. If you want to be more powerful when it comes to weapons, you should have to sacrifice modules, or vice versa. In fact, my Minmatar Logi can fit all proto flux equipment, a six kin ACR, and all complex mods (aside from plates) because I sacrifice my grenade slot and use a precision mod rather than ______________________________________________________________________________________ Honestly, I'm just going to guess that you haven't maxed out your fitting skills yet (or you only have level 3 assault) if you're running that many advanced modules on your Assault Go do that before you comment about this any more. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 48	Posted - 2014.07.19 11:54:00 - [103] - Quote [quote=I-Shayz-I_________________________________ Honestly, I'm just going to guess that you haven't maxed out your fitting skills yet (or you only have level 3 assault) if you're running that many advanced modules on your Assault Go do that before you comment about this any more.[/quote] I've all my skills CPU at lvl5 so... If there is a secret skill tree.... lol I spoke about Calda For Assault Caldari buff !
Macchi00 LORD-BRITISH 99	Posted - 2014.07.19 12:08:00 - [104] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Macchi00 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit Capacity The effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little EDIT: Please do not factor in the theoretical new layout. Use current slot layouts for theory crafting as those are familiar to you. Combining the two discussions will result in inconclusive data for us. I think lowering the CPU of the C-Assault, and we should increase the PG instead. Because, RR and Bolt pistol, and shield extender have high PG. Wat Caldari already fit CPU mods all the time. You want to reduce Caldari CPU further? But, C-Assault must not be superior to G-Assault. Both should be inferior to either the CPU or PG I love ForgeGun. I made ForgeGun montage in YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIhuGxfbjSQ
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4166	Posted - 2014.07.19 12:13:00 - [105] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: I spoke about Calda Oh lol, After re-reading your post you thought I meant "My heavy CAN barely run this fit" as if I was complaining about the heavy fitting nerf but I clearly stated "My heavy SHOULD barely run this fit" In other words, I want the sentinels to be nerfed more than they are proposed, and I was giving an example for how little CPU we heavies actually need. Besides, heavies have 5 mod slots 2 weapons 1 grenade Assaults have 7 mod slots 2 weapons 1 grenade 1 equipment Heavies have 8 slots Assaults have 11 slots So if I have to reduce 3 slots to adv instead of using all proto, that's 3/8 slots or 37.5% Assaults would have to reduce at least 4 slots, which after the buff (if CCP actually buffs assaults properly), hopefully you will only have to reduce 3 instead of 4 or 5. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 50	Posted - 2014.07.19 12:31:00 - [106] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: I spoke about Calda Oh lol, After re-reading your post you thought I meant "My heavy CAN barely run this fit" as if I was complaining about the heavy fitting nerf but I clearly stated "My heavy SHOULD barely run this fit" In other words, I want the sentinels to be nerfed more than they are proposed, and I was giving an example for how little CPU we heavies actually need. Besides, heavies have 5 mod slots 2 weapons 1 grenade Assaults have 7 mod slots 2 weapons 1 grenade 1 equipment Heavies have 8 slots Assaults have 11 slots So if I have to reduce 3 slots to adv instead of using all proto, that's 3/8 slots or 37.5% Assaults would have to reduce at least 4 slots, which after the buff (if CCP actually buffs assaults properly), hopefully you will only have to reduce 3 instead of 4 or 5. Hahahaha ok lol ^^ Sorry, I hadn't understood (I'm a bit bad in English sorry) Yes I spoke about Caldari assault, I know Amarr assault have a lot of PG/CPU, but I wonder if this is the same result for heavies ... I know after 1.8 a lot of good heavies have said "we have everything in proto, and we still have free PG/CPU... The dream for an Assault So, I hope heavies could just have a good fit, but are less good as now Everything which doesn't kill us, make us more... strange
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 239	Posted - 2014.07.19 13:11:00 - [107] - Quote Caldari assault cpu still to low if module stats remain the same.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4548	Posted - 2014.07.19 13:17:00 - [108] - Quote show us the protofits example, so we can gauge how much cpu you claim is necessary "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 480	Posted - 2014.07.19 13:33:00 - [109] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr Assault needs a second look, agreed. Anything else? You need a little more CPU on the adv caldari assault. You can't fit adv av grenades while using adv racial weapons and mods. You also can't fit any equipment at all unless you downgrade weapons or mods
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 71	Posted - 2014.07.19 13:48:00 - [110] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr Assault needs a second look, agreed. Anything else? You need a little more CPU on the adv caldari assault. You can't fit adv av grenades while using adv racial weapons and mods. You also can't fit any equipment at all unless you downgrade weapons or mods The proto cal assault needs its base cpu brought up to at least 370... And why are we bringing up fits with only 4 high cal ass.? Why not 5? For 4 you need base 370 cpu, or 360 For 5, you need 400 base cpu. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.

The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3633	Posted - 2014.07.19 13:51:00 - [111] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The dark cloud wrote: You shouldnt nerfed the caldari and minmatarr sentinels. They allready have the lowest amount of HP and are overshadowed by gallente and amarr cause they can be repaired which encourages plate stacking. We are applying a consistent method to PG/CPU calculations and balancing. We, therefore, need to make shield tanking more viable to make these suits competitive or give them better bonuses. You probs didnt had a look into my "various" topics about reptools and shield heavys. Give all reptools a 1hp/s shield regen when pointed at somebody. That way the persons natural shield regen would kickstart and regen even while under fire as long the reptool is pointed at him. If you want to have a more specified look into it check my topic out: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=postmessage&t=168569&f=730&q=2268425
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2114	Posted - 2014.07.19 14:04:00 - [112] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr Assault needs a second look, agreed. Anything else? I think Amarr assault could still use those fitting buffs. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 47	Posted - 2014.07.19 14:54:00 - [113] - Quote With max cpu /pg the advanced caldari assault will have 289/58. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/994/5586 + 1 enhanced shield- 262/53 +1 enhanced energizer - 301/47 - 1 enhanced sheild, + 2 energizer- 340/47 + 1 enhanced recharger - 286/47 - 1 enhanced shield, +2 enhanced recharger- 310/47 The Blazing Intellect Machine
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2524	Posted - 2014.07.19 14:55:00 - [114] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: As for heavies, please don't forget about the Heavy Weapon Operation skill bonus when calculating for the reduction of weapons. My general proto Amarr fitting is (ish) 2 complex extenders - 110 cpu 1 complex plate - 35 cpu 2 complex armor repairers - 90 cpu Boundless/Six Kin 100 cpu (75 after bonus) STD Bolt Pistol (this is where I save a lot of fitting space, but I could easily run proto) - 10 cpu ADV Grenade (again can easily run proto) - 20 cpu Total CPU: 340ish I should barely be able to run this fitting, I should at least have to sacrifice the plate to advanced, or the removal of the grenade. If I ran a proto light weapon I would then begin to have to sacrifice more than one module. That means the CPU for the proto Amarr heavy (after circuitry bonuses) should be at least 340, at most 375. If I'm wrong with my estimates than go a bit higher, but there should be no reason why I should have over 400 cpu with my heavy. => do you know how many mods assaults must sacrifice to have a good fit ? (example : for Gallente : 2 enhanced plates ; adv equipment ; adv sidearm weapon ; 1 hight mod adv Calda : adv grenade, 2x adv shield regulator ; 2 shield energizer ; basic sidearm weapon ; basic nanohive So don't cry because you'll have to have 1 enhanced plate... We (assault) can't fit most than 3/4 of our mods on proto For heavy + light weapon CCP wants to make more difficult to have a good fit + light weapon, that's normal, and I think it's a good idea, so if you want to have a light weapon on your heavy, you must sacrifice mods, that's normal. [/quote] Why are you running so much ADV equips on your Assault? Using Protofits and keeping the new PG and CPU in mind I can run with maxed skills: Minmatar Assault 3 complex shield extenders 1 complex shield recharger 2 complex shield regulators 1 complex kinkat 1 Six Kin ACR 1 submachine gun 1 flux grenade 1 K-2 Nano With about 1 CPU to spare, sure you may have less fitting on your suit but it can't be by that huge of a margin. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 50	Posted - 2014.07.19 17:11:00 - [115] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: show us the protofits example, so we can gauge how much cpu you claim is necessary FOR CALDARI ASSAULT (PRO) On a minmatar proto (to have the same slots) As you want to improve PG/CPU for Caldari : CPU : 317x1.30 = 412.1CPU => 412 CPU PG : 66x1.30 = 85.8 PG => 86PG You can see, with all skills, on my fit, I've : 1st suit : http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/84/5561 - 3 complex shield extenders - 1 complex shield energizer - 1 enhanced shield energizer - Ishukone assault Rail Rifle - Kaalakiota Magsec SMG - M1 locus grenade - Ishukone Gauged Nanohive - Complex shield regulator - Complex reactive plate (to have a bit PG and a bit less CPU used) Result ? (I must say : I've put a lot of complex mods and the sidearm weapon is proto, the nanohive too) 546 CPU and 78PG Thought ? We would have so much PG (+/-6) and not enought CPU (less 134CPU) 2nd suit : http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/84/5588 I've change 2 things : - I've change my complex energizer for an enhanced - I've change my Kaalakiota Magsec SMG for the N7-A Result ? 511 CPU and 75PG Thought ? We would still have so much PG (+/-9) and still not enought CPU (less 99CPU) My opinion : Put at the begining for the Caldari Assault : 390CPU (with all skills, it could have 507CPU) 63PG (with all skills : 81.9 => 82PG) (or 62..) Everything which doesn't kill us, makes us more... strange
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 47	Posted - 2014.07.19 17:45:00 - [116] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: show us the protofits example, so we can gauge how much cpu you claim is necessary FOR CALDARI ASSAULT (PRO) On a minmatar proto (to have the same slots) As you want to improve PG/CPU for Caldari : CPU : 317x1.30 = 412.1CPU => 412 CPU PG : 66x1.30 = 85.8 PG => 86PG You can see, with all skills, on my fit, I've : 1st suit : http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/84/5561 - 3 complex shield extenders - 1 complex shield energizer - 1 enhanced shield energizer - Ishukone assault Rail Rifle - Kaalakiota Magsec SMG - M1 locus grenade - Ishukone Gauged Nanohive - Complex shield regulator - Complex reactive plate (to have a bit PG and a bit less CPU used) Result ? (I must say : I've put a lot of complex mods and the sidearm weapon is proto, the nanohive too) 546 CPU and 78PG Thought ? We would have so much PG (+/-6) and not enought CPU (less 134CPU) 2nd suit : http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/84/5588 I've change 2 things : - I've change my complex energizer for an enhanced - I've change my Kaalakiota Magsec SMG for the N7-A Result ? 511 CPU and 75PG Thought ? We would still have so much PG (+/-9) and still not enought CPU (less 99CPU) My opinion : Put at the begining for the Caldari Assault : 390CPU (with all skills, it could have 507CPU) 63PG (with all skills : 81.9 => 82PG) (or 62..) What about fitting rechargers instead of energizers. That would save a great amount of cpu. The Blazing Intellect Machine
Cyrus Grevare WarRavens Final Resolution. 232	Posted - 2014.07.19 17:48:00 - [117] - Quote I had an outage recently , I usually keep eyes glued to any changes and upload proposed changes to protofits as soon as able, been a bit late to this most recent party unfortunately, but I just finished up creating the dropsuits with the currently proposed hotfix Charlie capacity modifications [Jul/19] showed at the start of this thread. The experimental dropsuits are particularly marked 'Hotfix Charlie' so feel free to tinker o7. Glad to see that there's use to the site, if I can make or change anything there feel free to let me know and I'll try to make it happen. Regards. www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 239	Posted - 2014.07.19 18:00:00 - [118] - Quote BlazeXYZ wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: show us the protofits example, so we can gauge how much cpu you claim is necessary FOR CALDARI ASSAULT (PRO) On a minmatar proto (to have the same slots) As you want to improve PG/CPU for Caldari : CPU : 317x1.30 = 412.1CPU => 412 CPU PG : 66x1.30 = 85.8 PG => 86PG You can see, with all skills, on my fit, I've : 1st suit : http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/84/5561 - 3 complex shield extenders - 1 complex shield energizer - 1 enhanced shield energizer - Ishukone assault Rail Rifle - Kaalakiota Magsec SMG - M1 locus grenade - Ishukone Gauged Nanohive - Complex shield regulator - Complex reactive plate (to have a bit PG and a bit less CPU used) Result ? (I must say : I've put a lot of complex mods and the sidearm weapon is proto, the nanohive too) 546 CPU and 78PG Thought ? We would have so much PG (+/-6) and not enought CPU (less 134CPU) 2nd suit : http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/84/5588 I've change 2 things : - I've change my complex energizer for an enhanced - I've change my Kaalakiota Magsec SMG for the N7-A Result ? 511 CPU and 75PG Thought ? We would still have so much PG (+/-9) and still not enought CPU (less 99CPU) My opinion : Put at the begining for the Caldari Assault : 390CPU (with all skills, it could have 507CPU) 63PG (with all skills : 81.9 => 82PG) (or 62..) What about fitting rechargers instead of energizers. That would save a great amount of cpu. 9 cpu difference for 20% shield recharge difference... have to use energizer to compete with rushing armor reps so thats 18 cpu for 40% on 2 modules...
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 47	Posted - 2014.07.19 18:09:00 - [119] - Quote Cyrus Grevare wrote: I had an outage recently , I usually keep eyes glued to any changes and upload proposed changes to protofits as soon as able, been a bit late to this most recent party unfortunately, but I just finished up creating the dropsuits with the currently proposed hotfix Charlie capacity modifications [Jul/19] showed at the start of this thread. The experimental dropsuits are particularly marked 'Hotfix Charlie' so feel free to tinker o7. Glad to see that there's use to the site, if I can make or change anything there feel free to let me know and I'll try to make it happen. Regards. Thankyou so much +1 The Blazing Intellect Machine

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4560	Posted - 2014.07.19 18:36:00 - [120] - Quote Cyrus Grevare wrote: I had an outage recently , I usually keep eyes glued to any changes and upload proposed changes to protofits as soon as able, been a bit late to this most recent party unfortunately, but I just finished up creating the dropsuits with the currently proposed hotfix Charlie capacity modifications [Jul/19] showed at the start of this thread. The experimental dropsuits are particularly marked 'Hotfix Charlie' so feel free to tinker o7. Glad to see that there's use to the site, if I can make or change anything there feel free to let me know and I'll try to make it happen. Regards. I had no idea you could do that, thanks for the assistance, much appreciated. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


Cyrus Grevare WarRavens Final Resolution. 234	Posted - 2014.07.19 18:46:00 - [121] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Cyrus Grevare wrote: I had an outage recently , I usually keep eyes glued to any changes and upload proposed changes to protofits as soon as able, been a bit late to this most recent party unfortunately, but I just finished up creating the dropsuits with the currently proposed hotfix Charlie capacity modifications [Jul/19] showed at the start of this thread. The experimental dropsuits are particularly marked 'Hotfix Charlie' so feel free to tinker o7. Glad to see that there's use to the site, if I can make or change anything there feel free to let me know and I'll try to make it happen. Regards. I had no idea you could do that, thanks for the assistance, much appreciated. A one man task force, but I try to be diligent and tweak whenever time permits, if I can help in any way let me know o7 www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 239	Posted - 2014.07.19 19:17:00 - [122] - Quote I built a protofits Caldari assault with maxed skills and here is the best i can do WITHOUT A CPU CHIP 1 x complex shield energizer 3 x complex shield extenders 1 x proto assault rifle 1 x advanced sub machine gun 1 x basic nanohive 1x standard grenade m1 locus 1x complex shield regulator 2x EMPTY LOW SLOTS!! 413/416 cpu 54/85 pg soooo much pg why no cpu? Shield suits need cpu not pg. So if I throw a cpu chip in I can upgrade but again, why is cpu chip a necessity for a player that has MAXED every core and weapon skill? this is with a basic nanohive, a standard grenade, a standard sidearm and 2 empty low slots. Its not like I am even trying to put a proto module in every slot. and yes this is using the hotfix charlie protofit. Putting all proto modules in every slot brings the suit up to 545/416 cpu with 80/85 pg used WITH ALL SKILLS MAXED 129 cpu short of creating an all proto shield based caldari suit with no cpu chip. So that suit must either add a chip and lose a low slot or Drop grenades, nanohives and run a standard sidearm or run a bunch of advanced gear in the slots. You really can't do that on a shield suit as you need the recharge rate. And is this really what new players should be striving for? investing tons of sp into a suit so they can fill it with advanced modules and still get smashed by an armor stacked assault pushing straight at you?
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 239	Posted - 2014.07.19 19:59:00 - [123] - Quote Shield modules use around twice as much cpu as armor modules. want 110 armor? Gimme like 12 cpu want 66 shields? Gimme like 54 cpu yeah these aren't exact numbers but increasing high slots means more cpu will be used. and I don't understand the caldari sentinel cpu nerf at all... it's shield based and I can't fit anything more than a toxin on it without a cpu chip in the low with 2 extenders and 2 energizers. Am I supposed to run plates?
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming 1217	Posted - 2014.07.19 21:04:00 - [124] - Quote I'm not sure I'd agree with lowering the heavy's capacity. From what I can tell the heavy is simply the poster child for the ever present problem that tanking is easier than fitting other mods. In fact I just went to Protofits and tried out the proposed changes and I would be forced to tank the heavy where as of right now I don't, at least not without running a terrible sidearm. Even my current and horrible underwhelming Min Assault / Scout fits can have a comparable sidearm. "The air smells damp and oppressive, like a wet nun" "Why am I talking to a lightbulb? Illuminate me"
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 943	Posted - 2014.07.20 01:58:00 - [125] - Quote I'm just going to wait and play and see , numbers can fool a lot of people in many different ways in making the brain rush to computations and such . It's going to be interesting , that's for sure . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1057	Posted - 2014.07.20 02:53:00 - [126] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Rattati has said some times ago : "don't need absolutly a CPU mod" I know I can fit it, but it might caldari will loose 1 mod ? Yeah, as a principle I believe that if you have the appropriate CPU and PG skills maxed you should never need a CPU or PG module to make a race/role appropriate fit. If you do, then the suit does not have a high enough capacity. CPU and PG modules are for when you donGÇÖt have all your skills levelled or you are trying something very none standard. Then why do complex fitting modules exist? It's not so you can fit a cloak on an assault suit. Or prototype weapons on standard suits. They exist so you can fit things, especially on suits with higher slot counts Amarrica! It's Not Safe to Swim.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11146	Posted - 2014.07.20 03:01:00 - [127] - Quote http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/136/5599 As you can see, the powergrid on the Caldari Assault is pretty much wasted. Even if I fit a prototype sidearm, grenade and equipment, I'm pretty sure I still won't be able to fill the PG on the Cal Assault. With a 5/2 slot layout this will become even worse. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 75	Posted - 2014.07.20 03:45:00 - [128] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/136/5599 As you can see, the powergrid on the Caldari Assault is pretty much wasted. Even if I fit a prototype sidearm, grenade and equipment, I'm pretty sure I still won't be able to fill the PG on the Cal Assault. With a 5/2 slot layout this will become even worse. Ok -15 pg and +90 cpu or more. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2545	Posted - 2014.07.20 15:15:00 - [129] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: I built a protofits Caldari assault with maxed skills and here is the best i can do WITHOUT A CPU CHIP 1 x complex shield energizer 3 x complex shield extenders 1 x proto assault rifle 1 x advanced sub machine gun 1 x basic nanohive 1x standard grenade m1 locus 1x complex shield regulator 2x EMPTY LOW SLOTS!! 413/416 cpu 54/85 pg soooo much pg why no cpu? Shield suits need cpu not pg. So if I throw a cpu chip in I can upgrade but again, why is cpu chip a necessity for a player that has MAXED every core and weapon skill? this is with a basic nanohive, a standard grenade, a standard sidearm and 2 empty low slots. Its not like I am even trying to put a proto module in every slot. and yes this is using the hotfix charlie protofit. Putting all proto modules in every slot brings the suit up to 545/416 cpu with 80/85 pg used WITH ALL SKILLS MAXED 129 cpu short of creating an all proto shield based caldari suit with no cpu chip. So that suit must either add a chip and lose a low slot or Drop grenades, nanohives and run a standard sidearm or run a bunch of advanced gear in the slots. You really can't do that on a shield suit as you need the recharge rate. And is this really what new players should be striving for? investing tons of sp into a suit so they can fill it with advanced modules and still get smashed by an armor stacked assault pushing straight at you? Doc they are changing the Cal Assaults slot layout to 5/2 you should make a fitting based off the proposed slot layout. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3648	Posted - 2014.07.20 15:37:00 - [130] - Quote On protofits i can allready see the new sentinels however the fitting bonus for HMG's is not displayed there yet. I have massive issues fitting a proto CK.0 sentinel. CPU is a huge issue on that cause all shield modules require tons of CPU. I cant have a 2 complex shield extenders and 2 complex rechargers/energizers at the same time with a boundless HMG. I either have to dowgrade the shield modules or go down a tier. And now i compare it to the other heavys that are getting "nerfed": Ak.0 sentinel: -2 complex damage mods -3complex plates -boundless HMG -Ishukone assault SMG -c-7 flux as you can see even with the CPU+PG nerf i can go full proto without any problems. So lets have a look at the gallente sentinel: GK.0sentinel: -1 complex damage mod -4 complex plates -boundless HMG -Ishukone assault SMG -c-7 flux Same thing like with the amarr. It can go full proto without going over its fitting limitations. So now lets have a look how badly i can only fit the CK.0 sentinel: -1 complex shield energizer -1 complex shield recharger -1 complex shield extender -1 enhanced shield extender - 1 complex shield regulator -MH-82 HMG -Toxin SMG (standard!) -flux grenade (again standard) So some 1 explain me please where the heavy nerf is apart for the caldari sentinel which gets allready mowed down by gallente and amarr sentinels which can stack plates? Compared to the other sentinels the caldari has to make drawbacks on its tank and all of its weapons. This is just not fair. Shield heavys cannot be supported with repair tools to gain their shields back and now you even make their lifes harder. The community is not complaining about the caldari sentinels, its the armor sentinels in squads that are receiving logi support to make usage of their plate stacking abilitys.

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 78	Posted - 2014.07.20 15:43:00 - [131] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: On protofits i can allready see the new sentinels however the fitting bonus for HMG's is not displayed there yet. I have massive issues fitting a proto CK.0 sentinel. CPU is a huge issue on that cause all shield modules require tons of CPU. I cant have a 2 complex shield extenders and 2 complex rechargers/energizers at the same time with a boundless HMG. I either have to dowgrade the shield modules or go down a tier. And now i compare it to the other heavys that are getting "nerfed": Ak.0 sentinel: -2 complex damage mods -3complex plates -boundless HMG -Ishukone assault SMG -c-7 flux as you can see even with the CPU+PG nerf i can go full proto without any problems. So lets have a look at the gallente sentinel: GK.0sentinel: -1 complex damage mod -4 complex plates -boundless HMG -Ishukone assault SMG -c-7 flux Same thing like with the amarr. It can go full proto without going over its fitting limitations. So now lets have a look how badly i can only fit the CK.0 sentinel: -1 complex shield energizer -1 complex shield recharger -1 complex shield extender -1 enhanced shield extender - 1 complex shield regulator -MH-82 HMG -Toxin SMG (standard!) -flux grenade (again standard) So some 1 explain me please where the heavy nerf is apart for the caldari sentinel which gets allready mowed down by gallente and amarr sentinels which can stack plates? Compared to the other sentinels the caldari has to make drawbacks on its tank and all of its weapons. This is just not fair. Shield heavys cannot be supported with repair tools to gain their shields back and now you even make their lifes harder. The community is not complaining about the caldari sentinels, its the armor sentinels in squads that are receiving logi support to make usage of their plate stacking abilitys. Don't you know? Ccp purposely keeps caldari cpu low and shield mods high requirements. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 180	Posted - 2014.07.20 16:05:00 - [132] - Quote Please take a look at these two charlie assault fits. Gallente assault Caldari assault I have tied to make two equivalent fittings with similar level mods, weapons and equipment. I have also tried to make decent fits that fit the vision of each suit. Each suit has all proto mods except one which is advanced. Each has a proto light weapon, an advanced sidearm and an advanced nanohive. Yes I have gone with ferroscale on the Gallente suit which has lower fitting costs, however to balance this the Caldari suit has a cardiac regulator which is possibly the module with the lowest CPU cost other than a CPU enhancer. I like to think the Gallente would appreciate the speed of ferroscale plates and the Caldari would enjoy the stamina to enable wide flanking to make full use of the rail rifles long range. As you can see the Caldari suit is 51 CPU over and 18 PG under, whereas the Gallente suit fills up it's resources quite nicely. Hopefully this illustrates the Caldari fitting issue quite nicely. It appears you could comfortably give the Caldari suit an extra 50-55 CPU at the cost of 11 PG (assuming an approximate 5cpu to 1pg ratio) or more. Would it be a problem if Caldari suits were CPU heavy? I know rail weapons are PG heavy but it hardly seems to matter compared to shield CPU usage. What about the scout suit? Caldari scouts are light on CPU like other Caldari suits, but it is rarely a problem for them as they have no need to fit CPU guzzling recharges/energizers.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 78	Posted - 2014.07.20 16:30:00 - [133] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Please take a look at these two charlie assault fits. Gallente assault Caldari assault I have tied to make two equivalent fittings with similar level mods, weapons and equipment. I have also tried to make decent fits that fit the vision of each suit. Each suit has all proto mods except one which is advanced. Each has a proto light weapon, an advanced sidearm and an advanced nanohive. Yes I have gone with ferroscale on the Gallente suit which has lower fitting costs, however to balance this the Caldari suit has a cardiac regulator which is possibly the module with the lowest CPU cost other than a CPU enhancer. I like to think the Gallente would appreciate the speed of ferroscale plates and the Caldari would enjoy the stamina to enable wide flanking to make full use of the rail rifles long range. As you can see the Caldari suit is 51 CPU over and 18 PG under, whereas the Gallente suit fills up it's resources quite nicely. Hopefully this illustrates the Caldari fitting issue quite nicely. It appears you could comfortably give the Caldari suit an extra 50-55 CPU at the cost of 11 PG (assuming an approximate 5cpu to 1pg ratio) or more. Would it be a problem if Caldari suits were CPU heavy? I know rail weapons are PG heavy but it hardly seems to matter compared to shield CPU usage. What about the scout suit? Caldari scouts are light on CPU like other Caldari suits, but it is rarely a problem for them as they have no need to fit CPU guzzling recharges/energizers. edit: looking at Caldari scout fittings there appears to be room to adjust the CPU/PG balance in favor of CPU without messing anything up. I recommend a less extreme change than the one I proposed for the assault. I haven't looked at heavies but it seems they are the same as assaults with the need to fit rechargers. I would assume that if you did re-balance Caldari fittings you would have to be consistent with all Caldari suits. How about actually buffing something without taking away things? And not everyone has pg skills maxed, only 5-8 pg should be taken if necessary. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 180	Posted - 2014.07.20 16:34:00 - [134] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: How about actually buffing something without taking away things? And not everyone has pg skills maxed, only 5-8 pg should be taken if necessary. Because it would be unfair on the other races. Are you saying Caldari users don't need to max out PG skills but Gallente users have to max CPU skills? My example Gallente suit uses all of it's available CPU.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3651	Posted - 2014.07.20 17:24:00 - [135] - Quote For those who seem to fail to understand what ive posted: those "nerfed" fits are still possible when hotfix charlie drops: GK.0 snetinel full proto and no drawbacks: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5622 AK.0 sentinel full proto no drawbacks: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5618 Ck.0 sentinel gets gimped on CPU and has to make drawbacks on tank and weapons: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5619 All your assault changes are rendered worthless as long amarr and gallente sentinels can fit whatever they are fancy with. The only thing that this hotfix achieves is to just cut the spare PG and CPU off which amarr and gallente doesnt need. While on the other hand its nerfing caldari hard compared to other races.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 55	Posted - 2014.07.20 17:34:00 - [136] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: For those who seem to fail to understand what ive posted: those "nerfed" fits are still possible when hotfix charlie drops: GK.0 snetinel full proto and no drawbacks: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5622 AK.0 sentinel full proto no drawbacks: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5618 Ck.0 sentinel gets gimped on CPU and has to make drawbacks on tank and weapons: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5619 All your assault changes are rendered worthless as long amarr and gallente sentinels can fit whatever they are fancy with. The only thing that this hotfix achieves is to just cut the spare PG and CPU off which amarr and gallente doesnt need. While on the other hand its nerfing caldari hard compared to other races. I think that's amazing... I don't know how is possible, on your Caldari you can't have all your mods on proto, any damager, and you must fit the MH-82, but the others can fit everything they want.... That's the same problem with the Assaults... Whatever which doesn't kill us, makes us simply more... strange
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 180	Posted - 2014.07.20 17:42:00 - [137] - Quote Obviously this is all due to the massive CPU usage of rechargers and energizers. You could reduce the fitting cost of these modules, however I prefer the idea of swapping some shield suit (mainly Caldari) PG for CPU. This should have the following benefits over changing the modules requirements: It strengthens the differences between shield and armor suits It encourages more varied fittings/playstyles by discouraging dual tanking and encouraging the use of regen mods.
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 48	Posted - 2014.07.20 17:48:00 - [138] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: For those who seem to fail to understand what ive posted: those "nerfed" fits are still possible when hotfix charlie drops: GK.0 snetinel full proto and no drawbacks: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5622 AK.0 sentinel full proto no drawbacks: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5618 Ck.0 sentinel gets gimped on CPU and has to make drawbacks on tank and weapons: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5619 All your assault changes are rendered worthless as long amarr and gallente sentinels can fit whatever they are fancy with. The only thing that this hotfix achieves is to just cut the spare PG and CPU off which amarr and gallente doesnt need. While on the other hand its nerfing caldari hard compared to other races. What about the minmatar heavy? The Blazing Intellect Machine
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3652	Posted - 2014.07.20 18:29:00 - [139] - Quote Here your Mk.0 in charlie: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5624 it still runs faster then most assaults and can aswell go full proto with no problems.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 42	Posted - 2014.07.20 19:17:00 - [140] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: PROTO Cal Assault: 3 complex extenders 2 complex energizers 1 complex shield regulator 1 complex cpu mod proto RR proto bolt pistol proto av grenades std needle 450 shield hp 86.48 shield hp/s 3.07 second shield delay 8.41 depleted shield delay 558/562 cpu 74/85 pg im look at this as my primary suit. good mix of tank vs regen and i can fit a needle. And no armor repair

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 80	Posted - 2014.07.20 19:18:00 - [141] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Obviously this is all due to the massive CPU usage of rechargers and energizers. You could reduce the fitting cost of these modules, however I prefer the idea of swapping some shield suit (mainly Caldari) PG for CPU. This should have the following benefits over changing the modules requirements: It strengthens the differences between shield and armor suits It encourages more varied fittings/playstyles by discouraging dual tanking and encouraging the use of regen mods. Regen mods still need a decrease though... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3657	Posted - 2014.07.21 00:03:00 - [142] - Quote To be honest the 3 main fitting aspects should be taken into consideration on the PG+CPU changes on sentinels: -Tank the tanking on a heavy is CPU or PG intense but never both -Gank its fairly even but complex damage mods are PG and CPU heavy thoug require more CPU then shield extenders. The gun you fit plays a role on it aswell. -Speed speed modules are PG intensive You look what suit has which focus and then decide which category you nerf on it. Nerfing PG on a caldari sentinel however seems pointless cause shield modules dont really require alot of CPU. Amarr and gallente require alot of PG to make plates and armor repairs work and the minmatarr mainly use speed modules which need alot of PG. The ultimate balance would be that you have to sacrifice something to achieve a advantage on either tank, gank or speed. A galente heavy should be aible to still fit 4 complex armor plates but not a proto HMG, SMG and grenade on top. The HMG should be advanced, the SMG standard and the grenade aswell advanced. If you want more firepower you should lower your tanking to make room for a proto HMG. No other suit in the game is currently capable to go full proto except for sentinels. Which is a balance issue.
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1036	Posted - 2014.07.21 15:41:00 - [143] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: => do you know how many mods assaults must sacrifice to have a good fit ? Do you know that I have 47 Million sp and I have a proto suit unlocked for all five roles in the game? I'm not a noob, I'm being rational and logical here. First of all, they're buffing the Assault capacity (they need to buff them more than the proposed values honestly, aside from Amarr that is) My Amarr Assault can run almost all prototype modules along with a six kin SMG and a Viziam SCR (two of the most fitting intensive weapons in the game for their classes). So obviously it's not assaults all around, but maybe just the Gal and Cal assaults that should get a major buff. The Amarr Assault feels fine as is. I also just propsed that my 450ish cpu Amarr Sentinel get nerfed to about 340 cpu (after bonuses) That's a 100 cpu nerf that I (and most other people) should be completely fine with. The general rule is that you should be able to run all proto modules as long as you sacrifice your grenade and sidearm slot. Running both a proto grenade and sidearm is almost 100 cpu, which is the cost of upgrading 3 modules to complex. If you want to be more powerful when it comes to weapons, you should have to sacrifice modules, or vice versa. In fact, my Minmatar Logi can fit all proto flux equipment, a six kin ACR, and all complex mods (aside from plates) because I sacrifice my grenade slot and use a precision mod rather than ______________________________________________________________________________________ Honestly, I'm just going to guess that you haven't maxed out your fitting skills yet (or you only have level 3 assault) if you're running that many advanced modules on your Assault Go do that before you comment about this any more. As for running a light weapon on a Sentinel, I can be glad to inform you that I'm not a scrub, and I have a proto Amarr Commando in which to run light weapons on if I wanted to run light weapons on a heavy frame. If you were to read what I was saying IN CONTEXT, you would know that I was simply stating that it would be a BAD IDEA to run a proto light weapon on the sentinel since I would have to then sacrifice multiple complex modules on top of my sidearm and grenade sacrifices (due to the cpu I saved from using a heavy weapon). With the low CPU that I proposed, it then further discourges players to run light weapons on Sentinels, WHICH I WANT TO HAPPEN SO THAT SCRUBS WILL STOP DOING IT. Okay? Gah I feel like I shouldn't have to explain myself like this. Pg buff was needed... even with level 5 in core skills, I out of pg using a std smg. 2cmplx armor.. 2 cmlx reps. One enhanced nano (k-2). And 2 enhanced dmg. 1 cmlx shield ext. Proto scr.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4624	Posted - 2014.07.21 16:08:00 - [144] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: To be honest the 3 main fitting aspects should be taken into consideration on the PG+CPU changes on sentinels: -Tank the tanking on a heavy is CPU or PG intense but never both -Gank its fairly even but complex damage mods are PG and CPU heavy thoug require more CPU then shield extenders. The gun you fit plays a role on it aswell. -Speed speed modules are PG intensive You look what suit has which focus and then decide which category you nerf on it. Nerfing PG on a caldari sentinel however seems pointless cause shield modules dont really require alot of CPU. Amarr and gallente require alot of PG to make plates and armor repairs work and the minmatarr mainly use speed modules which need alot of PG. The ultimate balance would be that you have to sacrifice something to achieve a advantage on either tank, gank or speed. A galente heavy should be aible to still fit 4 complex armor plates but not a proto HMG, SMG and grenade on top. The HMG should be advanced, the SMG standard and the grenade aswell advanced. If you want more firepower you should lower your tanking to make room for a proto HMG. No other suit in the game is currently capable to go full proto except for sentinels. Which is a balance issue. Which will be addressed, once we plow through the discussions and iterate some of the designs. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

CRNWLLC Gangsta Gank 370	Posted - 2014.07.21 17:11:00 - [145] - Quote I think sentinel balance--and commando balance--would also be helped by giving the commando suits the extra module slot instead of the sentinels. Sentinels don't need so much versatility. They're fat for a reason.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4638	Posted - 2014.07.21 21:11:00 - [146] - Quote Thank you for the feedback. Let us retreat back into our caves and come back with final designs based on you r feedback. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 81	Posted - 2014.07.23 00:40:00 - [147] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thank you for the feedback. Let us retreat back into our caves and come back with final designs based on you r feedback. Any chance you guys buffed cal assault cpu more than 17? Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4684	Posted - 2014.07.23 13:42:00 - [148] - Quote Merging this thread with the slot layout discussions. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=168380&find=unread "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



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